Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mathias.9657:

… snip
Amazing. I never had a dev team make my blood boil so bad, I really think you guys are clueless. Where is 2006 ANet… please come back, please.

Actually WoW is essentially all temporary content in a way. Once you finish a quest its done. You cant repeat it at all. Once you outlevel a zone, its done, you cant play there anymore. Once finish a certain tier and move to the next that content is done no reason to replay it again.

Sure if you create an alt its there for you to do again fair enough but again its do once and thats it just as good as one. In Gw2 the whole game remains relevant (with the exception of hearts of course)
Snip

Did not even bother reading any further. If that is your opening arguement no point. The fact that I can roll and alt and do it again is great. The fact that a new player can do it 1-2 years later is also great.
And everything in GW2 remains relevant? You have to remove content otherwise it will break immersion but the same events repeating endlessly is okay? I can see anet trying to spin that in a later patch note:
*To create a deeper sense of immersion we are removing all dynamic events from the game. They will now be played one more time each. Timetable is as follows…

I dont know if you ever did an event chain or if you’re one of those people who just runs away the moment a single event ends but all event chains are designed cyclic over an over all goal by the people involved. Example separatist steal cows, players get them back. Thus if the event chain is running you will either be defending the farm from having its cows stolen or you will be fighting to get the cows back. Its not perfect no doubt, Separatists are way too persistent, you’d expect they’d give up after loosing 1000s of people on the cow stealing activity but beyond that there is nothing that breaks continuity.

And like you said, talk like this is what caused the creation of temporary content I would bet on it. People complained that a village being attacked again after its been defended is not dynamic / doesnt create change etc.. even though in real life we have cities like Jerusalem which has been attacked 52 times and conquered 44 times. Not only that but various sources state that Palermo is the city thats been conquered the most even though I couldnt find any numbers to support that.

Anyhow back on subject. I’d love nothing else then more dynamic events but alas you cannot drive story forward with cyclic events. How would you do it? To have meaning full stories it has to be a narration that goes forward. The lord of the rings would be stupid if every time Frodo destroyed the ring Sauron would build another one and the whole thing repeats again endlessly (granted the concept works for Battlestar Galactica but anyhow). It works great for some stuff. If you got 2 factions sieging each other of course events will repeakittens not like any army gives up after one battle right? But not to drive story forward.

Also not sure where you get the idea by I am pretty sure arenanet are not trying to destroy the game and ergo they have no need to find a way to spin a reason in order to remove all content from the game.

I’m sure their not trying to destory their game, but that doesn’t mean that they are not. I also fear they are worreid GW2 is already on the decline and thus are now looking at short term ways to make it more successful. I could be 100% wrong there and I hope I am but I’m still going to share my thoughts on the matter.

I agree that you can’t rely 100% on dynamic events, just like you can’t relly 100% on anything, be it PvP, WvWvW, Temporary Content, Dungeons etc. My main point is that too much focus, and espically on temporary content, can only harm GW2 in the long run.

I know I’m going to get shot down for mention WoW and story but from BC onwards each patch moved the story forwards a bit more, just has each GW2 patch (or at least it;s trying to, I still get that filler feeling) it is trying to do the same thing. The difference is that WoW left that content behind once the story moved on for players that wanted to go back to it.

Why are we removing this content once it’s done? For immersion? Cmon do we rip the pages of chapters we’ve already read from books so we aren’t tempted to go back and check somethign and ruin our immersion? Or even worse are we doing that to punish those that didn’t read the book fast enough.

I can see small updates working, I can see a LITTLE temporary stuff here and there working, but I cannot see removing large sections of content, be it for immertion or for creating a sense of urgency working in the long run.

Kaaboose.3897:

Vayne.8563:

RoyalPredator.9163:

The biggest reason for permanent contents:
Casual gamers wouldn’t be forced to play in even’ts peroid, if they have time to explore it in their own speed.

“Do it now or never” is a hardcore style. I don’t get it…

Casual players would NEVER catch up. If Anet introduced content and left it there, and you were casual, you’d either do the current stuff or fall further and further behind.

And good luck in six months getting a group together for older dungeons.

But it’s about choice. A casual could STILL skip all that previous stuff and go right to where everybody is at. But say they start playing more, or they meet a character they really want to learn about. They then have the OPTION of going back and experiancing that content, even if it is solo or with a small group. As it stands a casual player most certianly can NEVER catch up. It’s not possible because the content is gone. However a casual player that doesn’t like the latest release might decide to go back and try some of the odler stuff that sounded interesting. Don’t forget about scaling events and levels in GW2. It’s far more accessable to go back and do previous content in GW2’s enviroment then in otehr MMOs.
Game are about freedom to the players and it’s something Anet stresses a lot in their manifesto. “The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

Sorry but it’s not really about choice. The number of people who want this choice are far less than the number of people who want to know what they need to do today. This is something I strongly believe.

While choice would be better for the minority, it could hardly be said to be better for the majority, who don’t want to think and just want to play.

YOU want a choice of what to do…there are enough people out there who want to log in and play without having a research paper before hand. If they can log in and just do what’s on their screen it’s better for them.

This is one of the problems Guild Wars 2 has had all along with people from other MMOs. Without a clear quest hub system that leads you around by the nose, people are lost. Some people LIKE being lost, but most don’t.

It’s sad but true. For me and you, choice is king. For most people, choice is paralyzing…at least too much choice.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Krosslite.1950:

killcannon.2576:

I think as time wears on….. and on, and on, more and more players are starting to see the negatives of the temporary content of the Living Story. And as time wears on Anet will see the faults in their design decisions, as it’s already starting now with the backpedaling we see from dev posts. If they want to keep the majority of their players, their mission statement will change.

Thank you op for your post and insight. Keep up the good fight.

Hmm killcannon…. I just went through the Dev Tracker and also no new articles or blogs.
No one is seeing this “backpedaling” you are referring too. Everything is still pointing to the current direction they are taking this game at the present.

The “biggest flaw” most are agreeing upon is Anet needing the writers to present more compelling stories and/or more writers.

I think it’s not correct to blame the writers. I do understand how it looks that way but it has more to do with there task.

Anet is not working on an expansion so focuses on the gem-store. They do that buy putting stuff temporary in the gem-store / game, creating a feel of urgency so people will buy / play it. (Not because people like it, but because if they don’t do / buy it today it will be gone tomorrow (not literally tomorrow.. always seem to have do define such statements on the Internet))

That means that basically all the writes need to do, is create an excuse to put more temporary stuff in the gem-store /game and that is what they do. And they might try to make a bigger better story as a total but in the short run Anet just needs an excuse to put in more temporary stuff to get people to play and buy.

They just do there task.

I do agree writing is a bit weak so far and thats probably because of the temporary content. Its not really possible to have along story arch if players can miss a chunk cause they were on holiday. It is also true however that such long arch content isnt suited for the “small” living story updates. Its probably something the long term teams are working on that will be more permanent. At least I hope so.

I disagree that people play the content because they’re forced by the urgency. If you really dislike the content whats the problem with missing it?

I dont like MMO X that doesnt mean I force myself to play it just so I can experiance the content before it closes right?

Same here, if someone doesnt like an update fine, whats the problem with going to play some of the other mountain of content for the next 2 weeks?

It was summed up very well earlier by The Talcmaster.7391:

Fun on someone else’s schedule is not fun

Vayne.8563:

Kaaboose.3897:

Vayne.8563:

RoyalPredator.9163:

The biggest reason for permanent contents:
Casual gamers wouldn’t be forced to play in even’ts peroid, if they have time to explore it in their own speed.

“Do it now or never” is a hardcore style. I don’t get it…

Casual players would NEVER catch up. If Anet introduced content and left it there, and you were casual, you’d either do the current stuff or fall further and further behind.

And good luck in six months getting a group together for older dungeons.

But it’s about choice. A casual could STILL skip all that previous stuff and go right to where everybody is at. But say they start playing more, or they meet a character they really want to learn about. They then have the OPTION of going back and experiancing that content, even if it is solo or with a small group. As it stands a casual player most certianly can NEVER catch up. It’s not possible because the content is gone. However a casual player that doesn’t like the latest release might decide to go back and try some of the odler stuff that sounded interesting. Don’t forget about scaling events and levels in GW2. It’s far more accessable to go back and do previous content in GW2’s enviroment then in otehr MMOs.
Game are about freedom to the players and it’s something Anet stresses a lot in their manifesto. “The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

Sorry but it’s not really about choice. The number of people who want this choice are far less than the number of people who want to know what they need to do today. This is something I strongly believe.

While choice would be better for the minority, it could hardly be said to be better for the majority, who don’t want to think and just want to play.

YOU want a choice of what to do…there are enough people out there who want to log in and play without having a research paper before hand. If they can log in and just do what’s on their screen it’s better for them.

This is one of the problems Guild Wars 2 has had all along with people from other MMOs. Without a clear quest hub system that leads you around by the nose, people are lost. Some people LIKE being lost, but most don’t.

It’s sad but true. For me and you, choice is king. For most people, choice is paralyzing…at least too much choice.

This… is just so flawed, not only on technicle and design levels but aslo pylosophically. But I’ll spare the ranting, mulling and terible spelling and get right to the point.

You see that Orange Star in your UI? See what it says there? That’s what you go do right now.

And for the ‘minority’ that don’t want to, give them the choice not too. Just leave the old stuff in the game.

Kaaboose.3897:

Vayne.8563:

Kaaboose.3897:

Vayne.8563:

RoyalPredator.9163:

The biggest reason for permanent contents:
Casual gamers wouldn’t be forced to play in even’ts peroid, if they have time to explore it in their own speed.

“Do it now or never” is a hardcore style. I don’t get it…

Casual players would NEVER catch up. If Anet introduced content and left it there, and you were casual, you’d either do the current stuff or fall further and further behind.

And good luck in six months getting a group together for older dungeons.

But it’s about choice. A casual could STILL skip all that previous stuff and go right to where everybody is at. But say they start playing more, or they meet a character they really want to learn about. They then have the OPTION of going back and experiancing that content, even if it is solo or with a small group. As it stands a casual player most certianly can NEVER catch up. It’s not possible because the content is gone. However a casual player that doesn’t like the latest release might decide to go back and try some of the odler stuff that sounded interesting. Don’t forget about scaling events and levels in GW2. It’s far more accessable to go back and do previous content in GW2’s enviroment then in otehr MMOs.
Game are about freedom to the players and it’s something Anet stresses a lot in their manifesto. “The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

Sorry but it’s not really about choice. The number of people who want this choice are far less than the number of people who want to know what they need to do today. This is something I strongly believe.

While choice would be better for the minority, it could hardly be said to be better for the majority, who don’t want to think and just want to play.

YOU want a choice of what to do…there are enough people out there who want to log in and play without having a research paper before hand. If they can log in and just do what’s on their screen it’s better for them.

This is one of the problems Guild Wars 2 has had all along with people from other MMOs. Without a clear quest hub system that leads you around by the nose, people are lost. Some people LIKE being lost, but most don’t.

It’s sad but true. For me and you, choice is king. For most people, choice is paralyzing…at least too much choice.

This… is just so flawed, not only on technicle and design levels but aslo pylosophically. But I’ll spare the ranting, mulling and terible spelling and get right to the point.

You see that Orange Star in your UI? See what it says there? That’s what you go do right now.

And for the ‘minority’ that don’t want to, give them the choice not too. Just leave the old stuff in the game.

There’s plenty of stuff to do in the game. The minority still needs to get a group together for that dungeon. The longer something stays in, the more content that comes out, the less people will be willing to go back. it’s like this is every MMO I’ve every played. No one wants to do the old stuff.

You’re thinking about it from the point of view of now. We’ve had two dungeons. But what about a year from now? Two years?

Sorry but what’s best for you, in my opinion, isn’t best for the game.

Vayne.8563:

Kaaboose.3897:

Vayne.8563:

RoyalPredator.9163:

The biggest reason for permanent contents:
Casual gamers wouldn’t be forced to play in even’ts peroid, if they have time to explore it in their own speed.

“Do it now or never” is a hardcore style. I don’t get it…

Casual players would NEVER catch up. If Anet introduced content and left it there, and you were casual, you’d either do the current stuff or fall further and further behind.

And good luck in six months getting a group together for older dungeons.

But it’s about choice. A casual could STILL skip all that previous stuff and go right to where everybody is at. But say they start playing more, or they meet a character they really want to learn about. They then have the OPTION of going back and experiancing that content, even if it is solo or with a small group. As it stands a casual player most certianly can NEVER catch up. It’s not possible because the content is gone. However a casual player that doesn’t like the latest release might decide to go back and try some of the odler stuff that sounded interesting. Don’t forget about scaling events and levels in GW2. It’s far more accessable to go back and do previous content in GW2’s enviroment then in otehr MMOs.
Game are about freedom to the players and it’s something Anet stresses a lot in their manifesto. “The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

Sorry but it’s not really about choice. The number of people who want this choice are far less than the number of people who want to know what they need to do today. This is something I strongly believe.

While choice would be better for the minority, it could hardly be said to be better for the majority, who don’t want to think and just want to play.

YOU want a choice of what to do…there are enough people out there who want to log in and play without having a research paper before hand. If they can log in and just do what’s on their screen it’s better for them.

This is one of the problems Guild Wars 2 has had all along with people from other MMOs. Without a clear quest hub system that leads you around by the nose, people are lost. Some people LIKE being lost, but most don’t.

It’s sad but true. For me and you, choice is king. For most people, choice is paralyzing…at least too much choice.

I guess all sandboxes are doomed?

I get your point…too much choice can be terrible…but let’s be totally honest, too much of anything doesn’t do anyone any favours.
Although, i’m not too sure what the problem is to allow people to have the choice. People don’t necessarily hate choice, they are more likely to hate choice when being thrown it all at once.
Who’s to say ANet can’t build in a kind of gating process (for lack of a better term) to the living story?

For example..after each event has passed, why don’t they allow you to talk to the herald – because who talks to the herald now – He’ll retell/allow you to relive the story from a selected LS, then allow you to at least port to the dungeon from the respective LS event, complete it and get to see at least some closure if you missed it.
(God forbid people actually have RL living stories and can’t join in for GW2’s version)

I see vayne is calling out anyone who doesn’t agree with him to be the minority to strengthen his view. Funny, when you consider the amount of times he’s consistently shouted down other people for doing the same.

Vayne also makes it sound like they should not add to the base of the game; that the root of the game should never grow. We can’t have new zones, or dungeons or even mini games that stay in the game according to vayne.

If the content is fun and the rewards are balanced people will continue to use the new content even if it’s months or years old.

nethykins.7986:

Vayne.8563:

Kaaboose.3897:

Vayne.8563:

RoyalPredator.9163:

The biggest reason for permanent contents:
Casual gamers wouldn’t be forced to play in even’ts peroid, if they have time to explore it in their own speed.

“Do it now or never” is a hardcore style. I don’t get it…

Casual players would NEVER catch up. If Anet introduced content and left it there, and you were casual, you’d either do the current stuff or fall further and further behind.

And good luck in six months getting a group together for older dungeons.

But it’s about choice. A casual could STILL skip all that previous stuff and go right to where everybody is at. But say they start playing more, or they meet a character they really want to learn about. They then have the OPTION of going back and experiancing that content, even if it is solo or with a small group. As it stands a casual player most certianly can NEVER catch up. It’s not possible because the content is gone. However a casual player that doesn’t like the latest release might decide to go back and try some of the odler stuff that sounded interesting. Don’t forget about scaling events and levels in GW2. It’s far more accessable to go back and do previous content in GW2’s enviroment then in otehr MMOs.
Game are about freedom to the players and it’s something Anet stresses a lot in their manifesto. “The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

Sorry but it’s not really about choice. The number of people who want this choice are far less than the number of people who want to know what they need to do today. This is something I strongly believe.

While choice would be better for the minority, it could hardly be said to be better for the majority, who don’t want to think and just want to play.

YOU want a choice of what to do…there are enough people out there who want to log in and play without having a research paper before hand. If they can log in and just do what’s on their screen it’s better for them.

This is one of the problems Guild Wars 2 has had all along with people from other MMOs. Without a clear quest hub system that leads you around by the nose, people are lost. Some people LIKE being lost, but most don’t.

It’s sad but true. For me and you, choice is king. For most people, choice is paralyzing…at least too much choice.

I guess all sandboxes are doomed?

I get your point…too much choice can be terrible…but let’s be totally honest, too much of anything doesn’t do anyone any favours.
Although, i’m not too sure what the problem is to allow people to have the choice. People don’t necessarily hate choice, they are more likely to hate choice when being thrown it all at once.
Who’s to say ANet can’t build in a kind of gating process (for lack of a better term) to the living story?

For example..after each event has passed, why don’t they allow you to talk to the herald – because who talks to the herald now – He’ll retell/allow you to relive the story from a selected LS, then allow you to at least port to the dungeon from the respective LS event, complete it and get to see at least some closure if you missed it.
(God forbid people actually have RL living stories and can’t join in for GW2’s version)

Again look at the long term here. New content every 2 weeks. Leave it all in the game. Guy takes a break for three months, which happens. He comes back to a new thing and 11 things he’s missed. Missing stuff frustrates some people. Having too much to choose from, not knowing how to catch up would frustrate even more people.

And this might go on for a year. 104 updates for a year. Leave them all in? Not only would it divide the playerbase, but it would be completely overwhelming to most people.

Sandbox MMOs have never done was well as theme parks, probably for that reason.

Vayne.8563:

The longer something stays in, the more content that comes out, the less people will be willing to go back. it’s like this is every MMO I’ve every played. No one wants to do the old stuff.

If new stuff is going to draw people away from the old stuff, it’s still better for the new stuff to be permanent stuff, because at least then it will still be there when it becomes old stuff and anyone who might want to re-experience it (or experience it for the first time even though it’s -gasp!- old) can still do that whereas if it was temporary, they cannot.

I don’t know about anybody else on this forum, but I’d rather play an MMO with mass quantities of rich, deep, permanent content that I can experience in full at my leisure for months and months (or years) on end than one in which, hey! there was once upon a time this fun thing you could do but it’s long gone now.

There is no excuse for non-seasonal temporary content in an MMO. It’s a bad idea that should never have been implemented. Living World is Anet’s innovative Death by 1000 Paper Cuts version of NGE. Clinging to it is just making a bad situation worse.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

The longer something stays in, the more content that comes out, the less people will be willing to go back. it’s like this is every MMO I’ve every played. No one wants to do the old stuff.

If new stuff is going to draw people away from the old stuff, it’s still better for the new stuff to be permanent stuff, because at least then it will still be there when it becomes old stuff and anyone who might want to re-experience it (or experience it for the first time even though it’s -gasp!- old) can still do that whereas if it was temporary, they cannot.

I don’t know about anybody else on this forum, but I’d rather play an MMO with mass quantities of rich, deep, permanent content that I can experience in full at my leisure for months and months (or years) on end than one in which, hey! there was once upon a time this fun thing you could do but it’s long gone now.

There is no excuse for non-seasonal temporary content in an MMO. It’s a bad idea that should never have been implemented. Living World is Anet’s innovative Death by 1000 Paper Cuts version of NGE. Clinging to it is just making a bad situation worse.

In your opinion it’s a bad idea. In other people’s opinions it’s not a bad idea. That’s the beauty about opinions. Everyone has one.

But we know Anet is also working on larger permanent additions to the game. Those are the way forward for permanent content.

Repeating your opinion isn’t going to make me buy into it, any more than repeating mine will get you to agree with me.

Vayne.8563:

nethykins.7986:

Vayne.8563:

Kaaboose.3897:

Vayne.8563:

RoyalPredator.9163:

The biggest reason for permanent contents:
Casual gamers wouldn’t be forced to play in even’ts peroid, if they have time to explore it in their own speed.

“Do it now or never” is a hardcore style. I don’t get it…

Casual players would NEVER catch up. If Anet introduced content and left it there, and you were casual, you’d either do the current stuff or fall further and further behind.

And good luck in six months getting a group together for older dungeons.

But it’s about choice. A casual could STILL skip all that previous stuff and go right to where everybody is at. But say they start playing more, or they meet a character they really want to learn about. They then have the OPTION of going back and experiancing that content, even if it is solo or with a small group. As it stands a casual player most certianly can NEVER catch up. It’s not possible because the content is gone. However a casual player that doesn’t like the latest release might decide to go back and try some of the odler stuff that sounded interesting. Don’t forget about scaling events and levels in GW2. It’s far more accessable to go back and do previous content in GW2’s enviroment then in otehr MMOs.
Game are about freedom to the players and it’s something Anet stresses a lot in their manifesto. “The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

Sorry but it’s not really about choice. The number of people who want this choice are far less than the number of people who want to know what they need to do today. This is something I strongly believe.

While choice would be better for the minority, it could hardly be said to be better for the majority, who don’t want to think and just want to play.

YOU want a choice of what to do…there are enough people out there who want to log in and play without having a research paper before hand. If they can log in and just do what’s on their screen it’s better for them.

This is one of the problems Guild Wars 2 has had all along with people from other MMOs. Without a clear quest hub system that leads you around by the nose, people are lost. Some people LIKE being lost, but most don’t.

It’s sad but true. For me and you, choice is king. For most people, choice is paralyzing…at least too much choice.

I guess all sandboxes are doomed?

I get your point…too much choice can be terrible…but let’s be totally honest, too much of anything doesn’t do anyone any favours.
Although, i’m not too sure what the problem is to allow people to have the choice. People don’t necessarily hate choice, they are more likely to hate choice when being thrown it all at once.
Who’s to say ANet can’t build in a kind of gating process (for lack of a better term) to the living story?

For example..after each event has passed, why don’t they allow you to talk to the herald – because who talks to the herald now – He’ll retell/allow you to relive the story from a selected LS, then allow you to at least port to the dungeon from the respective LS event, complete it and get to see at least some closure if you missed it.
(God forbid people actually have RL living stories and can’t join in for GW2’s version)

Again look at the long term here. New content every 2 weeks. Leave it all in the game. Guy takes a break for three months, which happens. He comes back to a new thing and 11 things he’s missed. Missing stuff frustrates some people. Having too much to choose from, not knowing how to catch up would frustrate even more people.

And this might go on for a year. 104 updates for a year. Leave them all in? Not only would it divide the playerbase, but it would be completely overwhelming to most people.

Sandbox MMOs have never done was well as theme parks, probably for that reason.

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

Vayne.8563:

Again look at the long term here. New content every 2 weeks. Leave it all in the game. Guy takes a break for three months, which happens. He comes back to a new thing and 11 things he’s missed. Missing stuff frustrates some people. Having too much to choose from, not knowing how to catch up would frustrate even more people.

And this might go on for a year. 104 updates for a year. Leave them all in? Not only would it divide the playerbase, but it would be completely overwhelming to most people.

Sandbox MMOs have never done was well as theme parks, probably for that reason.

I’m sure that dude would be grateful if the content was still there.

Many people like myself just don’t have time to race to my PC to view PvE content every other week.

Hell, If you’re in a specific line of work that has very loose (read: extended) working hours, or have family… and can manage to get some time to play, then hooray, but I’m not too sure penalizing people that just haven’t managed to get some time to play it because, ya’ know…life got in the way of precious GW2.

It’d frustrate me more that game dev’s aren’t just killing 2 birds with one stone by keeping it in. Those who are eager to do it and have more time on their hands will ALWAYS do it in the first couple of days, some people may really want to do it, but come in a month later – then they find it’s not there, and they’ll promptly log out…because of…you guessed it…Frustration

it’s not likely that same person would get frustrated over the content still being there.

Division of the player base is dependent on how it’s implemented. If they go all kitten y and do it like fractals then yes, that will divide people.

I just wanted to say that I think players should try and keep a healthy perspective on these games.

I love GW2 as much as the next player but I always feel people get a little be too fixated on the game. Just take a step back and look at all the things we DO have to do in this game. They have already said (and ofc Colin said in this thread) that they have listened to us and are working on longer lasting content.

ArenaNet are providing content every two weeks, good content. This have never been done in any western MMO, ever. Threads like this just make me think many MMO players have had it too good for too long and don’t remember the days MMOs where we had to make our own content (which was awesome).

You have to remember, this game is free to play. So they need some mechanism for getting players logging on. If a map or zone is only here for two weeks in creates a need for players to have to commit to that goal and work at it. I do sympathise with players who are, say on holiday for that two weeks, but the show must go on so to speak.

I love the idea of bringing back content via the fractals, so we do get to play old content but at the same time your not breaking the progressive story.

Genophix.3098:

I just wanted to say that I think players should try and keep a healthy perspective on these games.

I love GW2 as much as the next player but I always feel people get a little be too fixated on the game. Just take a step back and look at all the things we DO have to do in this game. They have already said (and ofc Colin said in this thread) that they have listened to us and are working on longer lasting content.

ArenaNet are providing content every two weeks, good content. This have never been done in any western MMO, ever. Threads like this just make me think many MMO players have had it too good for too long and don’t remember the days MMOs where we had to make our own content (which was awesome).

You have to remember, this game is free to play. So they need some mechanism for getting players logging on. If a map or zone is only here for two weeks in creates a need for players to have to commit to that goal and work at it. I do sympathise with players who are, say on holiday for that two weeks, but the show must go on so to speak.

I love the idea of bringing back content via the fractals, so we do get to play old content but at the same time your not breaking the progressive story.

This is why I go over the two scenarios and try and see this from Anets perspective as well. I understand they need methods to keep players playing as that is ultimatly a factor in how the bills are getting paid.
However, as I went over in the Game of Throne Scenario, this will only alientate players in the long run.
Content every 2 weeks is good. Temporary content every 2 weeks is not.

Kaaboose.3897:

Genophix.3098:

I just wanted to say that I think players should try and keep a healthy perspective on these games.

I love GW2 as much as the next player but I always feel people get a little be too fixated on the game. Just take a step back and look at all the things we DO have to do in this game. They have already said (and ofc Colin said in this thread) that they have listened to us and are working on longer lasting content.

ArenaNet are providing content every two weeks, good content. This have never been done in any western MMO, ever. Threads like this just make me think many MMO players have had it too good for too long and don’t remember the days MMOs where we had to make our own content (which was awesome).

You have to remember, this game is free to play. So they need some mechanism for getting players logging on. If a map or zone is only here for two weeks in creates a need for players to have to commit to that goal and work at it. I do sympathise with players who are, say on holiday for that two weeks, but the show must go on so to speak.

I love the idea of bringing back content via the fractals, so we do get to play old content but at the same time your not breaking the progressive story.

This is why I go over the two scenarios and try and see this from Anets perspective as well. I understand they need methods to keep players playing as that is ultimatly a factor in how the bills are getting paid.
However, as I went over in the Game of Throne Scenario, this will only alientate players in the long run.
Content every 2 weeks is good. Temporary content every 2 weeks is not.

What about if they do both? So keep the progressive story rolling but then also have far more perminant content arriving for us to enjoy? Then you have the best of both worlds right?

It does sound like that’s what this are doing, but I understand they need to make it first

Genophix.3098:

I just wanted to say that I think players should try and keep a healthy perspective on these games.

I love GW2 as much as the next player but I always feel people get a little be too fixated on the game. Just take a step back and look at all the things we DO have to do in this game. They have already said (and ofc Colin said in this thread) that they have listened to us and are working on longer lasting content.

ArenaNet are providing content every two weeks, good content. This have never been done in any western MMO, ever. Threads like this just make me think many MMO players have had it too good for too long and don’t remember the days MMOs where we had to make our own content (which was awesome).

You have to remember, this game is free to play. So they need some mechanism for getting players logging on. If a map or zone is only here for two weeks in creates a need for players to have to commit to that goal and work at it. I do sympathise with players who are, say on holiday for that two weeks, but the show must go on so to speak.

I love the idea of bringing back content via the fractals, so we do get to play old content but at the same time your not breaking the progressive story.

The Secret World tried to do it every month. After a while it did not hold up. they began to lag behind, but they had been making content that would stay in the game.

The content being added can only be judged when it arrives. So far, it’s been very patchy on whether it’s good or bad. Also we have to dictate what considers it “good”. Lore wise, a lot of stuff just comes out of leftfield. Patch wise, they may add something like fractals, or a new island or good game balance changes, but is that REALLY reliant on a LS patch to roll out?

Just for Clarification – The game is B2P.

EDIT:
They’re not doing a down-the-middle split on what they make permanent or temp. Most of it is temp…we have gained, what…a JP? a mini game?

It’s a game, You WILL miss ALOT of things, you can’t expect people to make things revolve around you, It sucks that you ‘have’ to miss alot of things because of RL but that’s just the way things are, You will have to sacrifice one thing to do the other, just because a certain other game that caters to “30min warriors”, doesn’t mean everyone else will follow suit

nethykins.7986:

I’m sure that dude would be grateful if the content was still there.

Content will still be there. Just not the same content that was there two weeks ago.

Devata.6589:

snip..

Maybe I am missing something but why do you need to farm mats to get a precursor? the only way mats fit in a precursor is if you build lvl 75 rare and exotic type of weapons and stick them in the mystical forge and those recipes use common materials that you can most definitely farm. There are only a few materials that are hard to farm, the very rare ones like corrupt lodestones and charged lodestones etc.. And whether you farm them directly or by farming gold (unless you take CoF p1 which like I said is inbalanced) it will not make a difference which way you go… just which one you enjoy most which is a good thing. Thing is Gold should be representative of effort more or less. if corrupt lodestones drop at a rate of approximately 1 an hour then they should cost the amount one makes in a n hour more less. It does take about an hour to get one of those and as a matter of fact they sell for 1g 66s right now… a bit over prized perhaps but close enough. Saying thakittens impossible to farm corrupted lodestones though is incorrect, of course you can, you’ll save gold doing it too. Keep in mind that while farming you get other stuff too like sharp claws for examples which you can also sell. In fact while it takes an hour to get a corrupted lodestone to drop you can probably afford to buy one too every 2 hours or so making farming them 33% more efficient then farming the gold directly. Of course farming the stones directly can be boring so might be worth taking the hit in lieu of enjoyment. nothing wrong with that.

Thing is the fact its gone forever is what gives it value though. I’ve managed to get 3 dragon weapons, I wanted 5 really but alas 3 is what I got (without going through the cash shop I might add, on principle I dont go for RNG boxes.. I did buy stuff with real money though, the halloween costume and 2 of the 3 permanent gathering tools + 2 character slots) Never converted money into in game gold. It took me a lot of effort to get 3 tickets and I am very happy of getting those 3 tickets, it feels like an achievement, it makes it satisfying. If I could farm those skins forever I would have gotten the complete set in time and so would everyone else creating a situation where a lot of people would look similar to each other (most skins are themed so its likely most necros would go for sclerite weapons etc… ) And thats a good example, I really wanted a sclerite staff for my necro but didnt manage to get a single one too bad. Thing is part of what it means to play an MMO is accepting you cannot always win. And thats true for any MMO. I also think its important one is unable to get everything because its the only thing that can make what things you get meaningful. Missing stuff is sad, I know like I said I am not happy with not managing to get a single sclerite skin sure. But you cannot win if you cannot loose. Somehow a game has to make it hard to get stuff and personally I’d rather have this system where you spend 2 weeks – a month max farming hard for something you like like other system where you’re actually locked into playing the same instance over and over until you get lucky. I had a friend who’s been trying to get a specific mount in wow for 3 years! 3 whole years! and she might be at it for 48+ years in total because it has a 1% drop rate in a raid of 25 which is locked to once a week. Is that any better then temporary content? I dont think so… sure you could keep trying and trying but even for the majority of people who never miss a single try its quite likely they’ll never manage to get it before the game closes. I am also talking about WoW btw, so no cash shop focus…. yet (one seems to be on the way) and still they have items that are much much harder to get then in Gw2 and while not temporary still the biggest majority of players will never get them. Thats why I am skeptic about blaming such things on the cash shop. Some things could just as easily be game design decisions.

““the more successful the cash shop after all the better they can make the game. How about.. the more successful the game the more cash they can make…? "

This is exactly the same thing seen from different angles.

The more money the cash shop makes the more resources they can give the game which means the better game we’ll get.

The better game will get, the more people it will attract which means the more cakitten will make.

Its the same exact progression in reverse.

Kaaboose.3897:

I’m sure their not trying to destory their game, but that doesn’t mean that they are not. I also fear they are worreid GW2 is already on the decline and thus are now looking at short term ways to make it more successful. I could be 100% wrong there and I hope I am but I’m still going to share my thoughts on the matter.

I agree that you can’t rely 100% on dynamic events, just like you can’t relly 100% on anything, be it PvP, WvWvW, Temporary Content, Dungeons etc. My main point is that too much focus, and espically on temporary content, can only harm GW2 in the long run.

I know I’m going to get shot down for mention WoW and story but from BC onwards each patch moved the story forwards a bit more, just has each GW2 patch (or at least it;s trying to, I still get that filler feeling) it is trying to do the same thing. The difference is that WoW left that content behind once the story moved on for players that wanted to go back to it.

Why are we removing this content once it’s done? For immersion? Cmon do we rip the pages of chapters we’ve already read from books so we aren’t tempted to go back and check somethign and ruin our immersion? Or even worse are we doing that to punish those that didn’t read the book fast enough.

I can see small updates working, I can see a LITTLE temporary stuff here and there working, but I cannot see removing large sections of content, be it for immertion or for creating a sense of urgency working in the long run.

I dont believe gw2 is on the decline at all. If it were they’d be working on an expansion rather then focusing on the cash shop for one. Two they’d be firing people rather then hiring and 3 go check reddit specifically threads about culling being disabled in the claw of jormag world event and look at the screenshot with the sea of players on multiple different servers. The game is most definitely healthy. Ohh and I guess the fact developers and NC soft both said they’re pretty happy with the revenue being generated should count for something as well

Afaik though WoW doesnt do any of these micro updates so you cannot really compare. We dont know if the large updates they’re planning to will be temporary or permanent. Southsun remained permanently although the story event that got in the game was temporary. As explained before is you cannot compare WoW to Gw2 on this either because WoW is funneling people towards the end game thus its not a problem if it introduces 1 century of content and leaves it ingame. I mean think about it if they introduce 10 new level 85 zones (not sure whats the level cap right now really dont play that game but this number is meant to be the level cap) and left it in there next update when they move the cap up to say lvl90 and introduce another 2 zones players will not be split into 12x they’ll be split into 2x because while those 10 zones have not been removed they’re effectively no longer relevant. Gw2 is different. Right now players are split 25 ways. if 10 zones are introduced they’ll be split 35 ways etc.. etc..
Each piece of new content introduced takes players and the more players are spread tin the harder it will be to team up. Gw2 in my opinion needs to be careful how much it grows. Cause the more it grows the more spread players will become and the more people will get the impression the game is dying even while actually it would be thriving.

Books are like WoW, they’re a linear experience, once you read a page you’re not going back to it unless you restart reading the book from scratch. Gw2 is not like thakittens more like a magical book you’re meant to read whatever page you feel like and do this with other people but the more pages there are the more risky it is that other people decided to read a page which is different then the one you choose and thus find yourself alone which would be bad.

But wait as second, these are small updates, thats whats being removed. Big stuff is still along the way and we have no clue yet if its going to be temporary or permanent. I would be surprised if its temporary.

Shinky.1492:

It’s a game, You WILL miss ALOT of things, you can’t expect people to make things revolve around you, It sucks that you ‘have’ to miss alot of things because of RL but that’s just the way things are, You will have to sacrifice one thing to do the other, just because a certain other game that caters to “30min warriors”, doesn’t mean everyone else will follow suit

Never stated wanting it to revolve around me – I want it to consider those who are not full-time-gamers. Many, many games release content on a permanent basis…what’s the problem doing it here?

Still doesn’t make much sense to cast one group of people aside just for the sake of trying to be “different”. It only makes that group feel less and less inclined to get involved.

Kaaboose.3897:

It was summed up very well earlier by The Talcmaster.7391:

Fun on someone else’s schedule is not fun

Sure okey I agree.. but how is this fun on some else’s schedule?

You play on your own schedule and no matter when that may end up being there is something new for you to experience. If you like it you play that, if you don’t you have a mountain of other content to enjoy.

I just want to chime in here quickly.
The LS is not off putting to new or returning players from my experience.

Most people I know who left, did so because they felt that they have seen everything and that nothing changes in the game.
New people who haven’t played ask me what kind of things are there to do.

My husband played this game with me everyday from launch until Desc when he said that when things become a bit more dynamic he will look into it again, we have our pc’s next to each other and since the LS started he has been taking peeks at my screen asking me, hey what’s that?

Just the last two weeks or so he has been logging in even if it is just between BF3 matches.
Yesterday he asked if we can play some this weekend.

Many of my friends who have burned out on GW2 have been returning and found a new enjoyment in just casually running around checking out new stuff, getting some achievements, some skins and they love it because it is light and fun for them and there is no obligation to do the content if you do not want to.

To me it seems like this is a brilliant idea- Anet already said that they will be adding a mix of permanent content and temp content.
They also said that there is no reason why they cannot open new zones via LS.
Just think how amazing that will be- us players via a story arc opening the Crystal Desert as an example.
I think the only people who really complain about LS either play really long hours a day or do not quite understand the concept/ do not like change.
Fair enough, give it a chance though, it might not be the way you think it will.

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

Surely being able to choose is a positive not a negative.

Freedom of choice is something we deal with everyday. Unless all that stuff is flooded upon a player, that’s the only time when frustration will arise. It’s happened many times in both MMO’s and Single player games. Often even a simple tutorial goes a little overboard and spouts everything at you at once, or sometimes they don’t ease you in at all.

If that person were really agitated about choice, I’d be surprised they didn’t constantly get nosebleeds from thinking too hard trying to pick which cereal to buy at the local supermarket.

The problem is, the method of delivery is catering to those who speed through content anyway. They often get through it in a few days, get the rewards, then go play a different game until the next event, but because its mainly temp stuff, those who don’t play like that will have a harder time seeing much of it if anything.

I think we have two schools of thought here and honestly They both have very valid arguments. I mean it!

Temporary content is good because it provides stuff to do, changes the world tangibly and avoids fracturing the playerbase

Permanent content is good because it allows you to play everything at your own pace, makes it so you can gain those rewards eventually, enriches the world at large.

So I’ve been thinking and I got an idea how you could merge both of these together.

What if we got a herald / historian / whatever in FotM who’s job would be to tweak the whatever machine that makes fractal work to focus on specific episodes in time, 1 month at a time. So this month you could relive the events / activities of the flame and frost event while next month it might be the lost shores story.

Now this would require some changes going forward i would assume, I mean for something like this to work the story driving events would have to be instanced. Unless Anet doesnt have the technology to create replayable instances of real world events easily.. that would be totally awesome if it would work.

I think it might be a good idea.. you talk to this npc and he asks you what you want to relive and then you choose like say Dragon Ball or you choose the effigy ceremony and you get to play that.

I think that would solve the biggest issues of both schools. Players will be able to re-experience the older content they might have missed / really enjoyed and at the same time it would still limit fragmentation as it will not all be available at the same time.

Brilliant? Idiotic? I am curious what do people think?

I like the idea.
I’d tie it to herald NPCs in particular mainly because they’re noted on the map and they’re a bit redundant when events are on (events are marked on the map…we get mail notifications about what’s going on).

nethykins.7986:

Surely being able to choose is a positive not a negative.

Freedom of choice is something we deal with everyday. Unless all that stuff is flooded upon a player, that’s the only time when frustration will arise. It’s happened many times in both MMO’s and Single player games. Often even a simple tutorial goes a little overboard and spouts everything at you at once, or sometimes they don’t ease you in at all.

If that person were really agitated about choice, I’d be surprised they didn’t constantly get nosebleeds from thinking too hard trying to pick which cereal to buy at the local supermarket.

The problem is, the method of delivery is catering to those who speed through content anyway. They often get through it in a few days, get the rewards, then go play a different game until the next event, but because its mainly temp stuff, those who don’t play like that will have a harder time seeing much of it if anything.

It can be both especially considering this is an MMO so I also depend on other people making the same choice as me. Lets assume all content was let in permanently. Okey great I can choose to play the lunatic inquisition today perfect but if no one else does that same choice at the same moment I made that choice what benefit was there in the ability to choose? Taking away choice can mitigate that to a degree. All themepark MMOs do this, generally its seemless because of power creep but they have to do it. You have a limited number of players and a lot of choices you’re bound to end up alone now and then and thats a problem.

I disagree, these updates arent targeted at speed runners at all. quite the opposite. The lighting of effigies, the holo emitters, the kites, the caches, they’re all stuff you can just login play just 15 mins and get something out of it by just walking around anywhere in the world. of course speed runners are going to speed run and they’re going to achieve more then that casual player but thats the nature of being a speed runner no matter what content they release the speed runner is always going to get an edge.

However I dont think this is about how much you get to complete. I can log on for just 5 minutes this month and spend those 5 minutes looking around admiring the Labyrinthine Cliffs. Wouldnt I still enjoy those 5 minutes just because in that amount of time I didnt get to complete anything? I still think the main issue here is people are making the game about the reward. First and foremost it should be about a game to enjoy. Reward is what comes from playing that game. The great thing about this is no matter when you log in, no matter for how long there is something for you to do. If you speed ran through it and got it done in a couple of days you’d have only hurt yourself.

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

Thank you. This is the problem almost every person already finds coming back and not knowing what to do. We see some people ask on the forum and get half a dozen contradictory suggestions.

Hell, I play the game every day and sometimes I’m overwhelmed by all the content. I think with content every two weeks, this game would become impossibly clogged. The player base would spread out further and further and the people who claim that we’re losing players would have more to crow about.

This way, everyone that cares about the Living Story is more or less on the same page.

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

I’m assuming you’re basing that “poor guy” whose “head would explode” off of your own experience? And possibly Vayne’s? Or maybe your gaming community?

I generally find people are a little more intelligent than that. Of course there are always the exceptions.

Also, why are you using holiday content as examples? That kind of stuff isn’t supposed to stick around.

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

Thank you. This is the problem almost every person already finds coming back and not knowing what to do. We see some people ask on the forum and get half a dozen contradictory suggestions.

Hell, I play the game every day and sometimes I’m overwhelmed by all the content. I think with content every two weeks, this game would become impossibly clogged. The player base would spread out further and further and the people who claim that we’re losing players would have more to crow about.

This way, everyone that cares about the Living Story is more or less on the same page.

Without the tragedy of the Living “Story” (oh gods, what a misnomer), they wouldn’t have to release half made content every two weeks. They could actually take their time and put out something worth playing.

Galen Grey.4709:

I think we have two schools of thought here and honestly They both have very valid arguments. I mean it!

Temporary content is good because it provides stuff to do, changes the world tangibly and avoids fracturing the playerbase

Permanent content is good because it allows you to play everything at your own pace, makes it so you can gain those rewards eventually, enriches the world at large.

So I’ve been thinking and I got an idea how you could merge both of these together.

What if we got a herald / historian / whatever in FotM who’s job would be to tweak the whatever machine that makes fractal work to focus on specific episodes in time, 1 month at a time. So this month you could relive the events / activities of the flame and frost event while next month it might be the lost shores story.

Now this would require some changes going forward i would assume, I mean for something like this to work the story driving events would have to be instanced. Unless Anet doesnt have the technology to create replayable instances of real world events easily.. that would be totally awesome if it would work.

I think it might be a good idea.. you talk to this npc and he asks you what you want to relive and then you choose like say Dragon Ball or you choose the effigy ceremony and you get to play that.

I think that would solve the biggest issues of both schools. Players will be able to re-experience the older content they might have missed / really enjoyed and at the same time it would still limit fragmentation as it will not all be available at the same time.

Brilliant? Idiotic? I am curious what do people think?

Have you seen this Galen?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/How-to-Fix-the-Living-Story-in-Guild-Wars-2/
You just went over this is a slightly differnt way. Glad to see I’m not the only one who thinks this way. Feel free to bump it up if you want to discuss you ideas some more tehre since it’s a bit off topic here.

Galen Grey.4709:

I think we have two schools of thought here and honestly They both have very valid arguments. I mean it!

Temporary content is good because it provides stuff to do, changes the world tangibly and avoids fracturing the playerbase

Permanent content is good because it allows you to play everything at your own pace, makes it so you can gain those rewards eventually, enriches the world at large.

So I’ve been thinking and I got an idea how you could merge both of these together.

What if we got a herald / historian / whatever in FotM who’s job would be to tweak the whatever machine that makes fractal work to focus on specific episodes in time, 1 month at a time. So this month you could relive the events / activities of the flame and frost event while next month it might be the lost shores story.

Now this would require some changes going forward i would assume, I mean for something like this to work the story driving events would have to be instanced. Unless Anet doesnt have the technology to create replayable instances of real world events easily.. that would be totally awesome if it would work.

I think it might be a good idea.. you talk to this npc and he asks you what you want to relive and then you choose like say Dragon Ball or you choose the effigy ceremony and you get to play that.

I think that would solve the biggest issues of both schools. Players will be able to re-experience the older content they might have missed / really enjoyed and at the same time it would still limit fragmentation as it will not all be available at the same time.

Brilliant? Idiotic? I am curious what do people think?

You know, I asked before, but you avoided the question, so I will try again.

What Living Story release has changed the world?

killcannon.2576:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

I’m assuming you’re basing that “poor guy” whose “head would explode” off of your own experience? And possibly Vayne’s? Or maybe your gaming community?

I generally find people are a little more intelligent than that. Of course there are always the exceptions.

Also, why are you using holiday content as examples? That kind of stuff isn’t supposed to stick around.

So you think most Guild Wars 2 players are knowledgable, hard core MMO players who know what’s going on? Based on what exactly? Six guys you know? Your hardcore guild.

I’m one of the more knowledgable people in my guild and it frequently amazes me how little people know. One guy in a my guild has been playing the game for two months, has an 80th level character and didn’t know how to get to LA through the mists.

People have all different levels of experience with games, experience with this game, and even degrees of involvement. It’s already been pointed out again and again that this game is aimed at casuals. For many people it’s their first MMO.

This has less to do with people being intelligent and more to do with people being exposed.

You’d be stunned at how many people I talk to that don’t have a clue.

killcannon.2576:

Galen Grey.4709:

I think we have two schools of thought here and honestly They both have very valid arguments. I mean it!

Temporary content is good because it provides stuff to do, changes the world tangibly and avoids fracturing the playerbase

Permanent content is good because it allows you to play everything at your own pace, makes it so you can gain those rewards eventually, enriches the world at large.

So I’ve been thinking and I got an idea how you could merge both of these together.

What if we got a herald / historian / whatever in FotM who’s job would be to tweak the whatever machine that makes fractal work to focus on specific episodes in time, 1 month at a time. So this month you could relive the events / activities of the flame and frost event while next month it might be the lost shores story.

Now this would require some changes going forward i would assume, I mean for something like this to work the story driving events would have to be instanced. Unless Anet doesnt have the technology to create replayable instances of real world events easily.. that would be totally awesome if it would work.

I think it might be a good idea.. you talk to this npc and he asks you what you want to relive and then you choose like say Dragon Ball or you choose the effigy ceremony and you get to play that.

I think that would solve the biggest issues of both schools. Players will be able to re-experience the older content they might have missed / really enjoyed and at the same time it would still limit fragmentation as it will not all be available at the same time.

Brilliant? Idiotic? I am curious what do people think?

You know, I asked before, but you avoided the question, so I will try again.

What Living Story release has changed the world?

Cragstead has changed. Many of the visual changes to Southsun are still there…most of them in fact. The Aetherblade jumping puzzle is still there. The moa races are still going on in LA.

There have been changes…and you know, that’s how places change…a bit at a time. Most places don’t get razed and rebuilt every day.

A lot may disagree with me, I am glad to see the back of SAB and Mr Invulnerable to all but Mines.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

I’m assuming you’re basing that “poor guy” whose “head would explode” off of your own experience? And possibly Vayne’s? Or maybe your gaming community?

I generally find people are a little more intelligent than that. Of course there are always the exceptions.

Also, why are you using holiday content as examples? That kind of stuff isn’t supposed to stick around.

So you think most Guild Wars 2 players are knowledgable, hard core MMO players who know what’s going on? Based on what exactly? Six guys you know? Your hardcore guild.

I’m one of the more knowledgable people in my guild and it frequently amazes me how little people know. One guy in a my guild has been playing the game for two months, has an 80th level character and didn’t know how to get to LA through the mists.

People have all different levels of experience with games, experience with this game, and even degrees of involvement. It’s already been pointed out again and again that this game is aimed at casuals. For many people it’s their first MMO.

This has less to do with people being intelligent and more to do with people being exposed.

You’d be stunned at how many people I talk to that don’t have a clue.

My sympathy for you if that’s the kind of guild you have and those are the players in your circle of friends. I guess they had to end up somewhere.

I totally understand now why you post the way you do. Good news though, those players are a minority.

Please link me something showing me where this game is targeted at casuals.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

I’m assuming you’re basing that “poor guy” whose “head would explode” off of your own experience? And possibly Vayne’s? Or maybe your gaming community?

I generally find people are a little more intelligent than that. Of course there are always the exceptions.

Also, why are you using holiday content as examples? That kind of stuff isn’t supposed to stick around.

So you think most Guild Wars 2 players are knowledgable, hard core MMO players who know what’s going on? Based on what exactly? Six guys you know? Your hardcore guild.

I’m one of the more knowledgable people in my guild and it frequently amazes me how little people know. One guy in a my guild has been playing the game for two months, has an 80th level character and didn’t know how to get to LA through the mists.

People have all different levels of experience with games, experience with this game, and even degrees of involvement. It’s already been pointed out again and again that this game is aimed at casuals. For many people it’s their first MMO.

This has less to do with people being intelligent and more to do with people being exposed.

You’d be stunned at how many people I talk to that don’t have a clue.

My sympathy for you if that’s the kind of guild you have and those are the players in your circle of friends. I guess they had to end up somewhere.

I totally understand now why you post the way you do. Good news though, those players are a minority.

Please link me something showing me where this game is targeted at casuals.

Actually I talk to a lot of newbies, because I seek out newbies to help. Some people are more elitist and only play with their super elite I’ve been playing MMOs for 100 years. Your casual dismissal of anyone with less experience than you is both troubling and unexpected.

There are a ton of people playing this game that don’t have a clue, but it’s not because they’re not intelligent. It’s because they don’t have the background or the time to learn it. Some people play infrequently and don’t even know the wiki or other such sites exist. Some don’t learn best by reading and learn by experiencing or having things explained to them.

If you really think this group is a minority you probably haven’t been paying attention. In fact, I know a whole lot of people who think they know a lot more than they do.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

Thank you. This is the problem almost every person already finds coming back and not knowing what to do. We see some people ask on the forum and get half a dozen contradictory suggestions.

Hell, I play the game every day and sometimes I’m overwhelmed by all the content. I think with content every two weeks, this game would become impossibly clogged. The player base would spread out further and further and the people who claim that we’re losing players would have more to crow about.

This way, everyone that cares about the Living Story is more or less on the same page.

Without the tragedy of the Living “Story” (oh gods, what a misnomer), they wouldn’t have to release half made content every two weeks. They could actually take their time and put out something worth playing.

This kind of brings us back to the whole expansion vs episodic content debate. Since Anet requires people constaly playing and thus buying gems to stay afloat I can see why they’ve gone for releasing cotntent regularaly over large installments.
The problem with doing so is the quality of the conetent WILL suffer. There is no debate to be had there, quality will always suffer under strict deadlines.
I CAN see where Vayne is coming from in this reguard. An oversatuartion of poor quality content IS a bad thing, but TBH if anet can’t get out good content in these timeframes they need to adjust them.
If anet really wants to impliment temporary content to make the world feel alive I honesty think they should focus on little things like NPC’s in capitals (or lions) talking about whats going on in the world or even how it’s effecting them. Maybe a few temporary dynaic events in the world. There are several ways temporary content can be put in to make the world feel more immersive without it being the primary focus.
I know Colin has told us there will be a better mix of temp/reacurring/permanent content but it’s very vauge and I really think the reason we haven’t been given more details right now is so they can judge players reactions to their announcement.
I am anxiosly awaiting these details but I felt it nessesary that the players concernd we might be getting too much temp stuff voice these concerns in the intrum.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Galen Grey.4709:

I think we have two schools of thought here and honestly They both have very valid arguments. I mean it!

Temporary content is good because it provides stuff to do, changes the world tangibly and avoids fracturing the playerbase

Permanent content is good because it allows you to play everything at your own pace, makes it so you can gain those rewards eventually, enriches the world at large.

So I’ve been thinking and I got an idea how you could merge both of these together.

What if we got a herald / historian / whatever in FotM who’s job would be to tweak the whatever machine that makes fractal work to focus on specific episodes in time, 1 month at a time. So this month you could relive the events / activities of the flame and frost event while next month it might be the lost shores story.

Now this would require some changes going forward i would assume, I mean for something like this to work the story driving events would have to be instanced. Unless Anet doesnt have the technology to create replayable instances of real world events easily.. that would be totally awesome if it would work.

I think it might be a good idea.. you talk to this npc and he asks you what you want to relive and then you choose like say Dragon Ball or you choose the effigy ceremony and you get to play that.

I think that would solve the biggest issues of both schools. Players will be able to re-experience the older content they might have missed / really enjoyed and at the same time it would still limit fragmentation as it will not all be available at the same time.

Brilliant? Idiotic? I am curious what do people think?

You know, I asked before, but you avoided the question, so I will try again.

What Living Story release has changed the world?

Cragstead has changed. Many of the visual changes to Southsun are still there…most of them in fact. The Aetherblade jumping puzzle is still there. The moa races are still going on in LA.

There have been changes…and you know, that’s how places change…a bit at a time. Most places don’t get razed and rebuilt every day.

Thanks, so since Living “Story” has begun we have an 2 instanced areas that contain about a paragraph of flavor text, a jumping puzzle, an area with a couple shacks that is still deserted except for farming (pretty much the same as before), and a rng gold sink.

Sure am glad the Living “Story” is around to make the world seem so alive.

My heads going to explode just thinking about it!!!!

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

I’m assuming you’re basing that “poor guy” whose “head would explode” off of your own experience? And possibly Vayne’s? Or maybe your gaming community?

I generally find people are a little more intelligent than that. Of course there are always the exceptions.

Also, why are you using holiday content as examples? That kind of stuff isn’t supposed to stick around.

So you think most Guild Wars 2 players are knowledgable, hard core MMO players who know what’s going on? Based on what exactly? Six guys you know? Your hardcore guild.

I’m one of the more knowledgable people in my guild and it frequently amazes me how little people know. One guy in a my guild has been playing the game for two months, has an 80th level character and didn’t know how to get to LA through the mists.

People have all different levels of experience with games, experience with this game, and even degrees of involvement. It’s already been pointed out again and again that this game is aimed at casuals. For many people it’s their first MMO.

This has less to do with people being intelligent and more to do with people being exposed.

You’d be stunned at how many people I talk to that don’t have a clue.

My sympathy for you if that’s the kind of guild you have and those are the players in your circle of friends. I guess they had to end up somewhere.

I totally understand now why you post the way you do. Good news though, those players are a minority.

Please link me something showing me where this game is targeted at casuals.

Actually I talk to a lot of newbies, because I seek out newbies to help. Some people are more elitist and only play with their super elite I’ve been playing MMOs for 100 years. Your casual dismissal of anyone with less experience than you is both troubling and unexpected.

There are a ton of people playing this game that don’t have a clue, but it’s not because they’re not intelligent. It’s because they don’t have the background or the time to learn it. Some people play infrequently and don’t even know the wiki or other such sites exist. Some don’t learn best by reading and learn by experiencing or having things explained to them.

If you really think this group is a minority you probably haven’t been paying attention. In fact, I know a whole lot of people who think they know a lot more than they do.

I don’t run into a ton of people who don’t have a clue. Maybe it’s something about TC.

Anyway, I’m glad you’re here to say that the majority of people who play this game are clueless.

I think most of them have a clue…maybe three or four. Sometimes a whole bushel!!!!!

This isn’t exactly true. I definitely know players who don’t care about the story going on, simply the features that have been cemented into the game through the living story. I see what you mean though, and yes, a new player will feel somewhat lost, so Arena net needs to implement better beginner guides into the game, that will help with become familiar with all facets of the game. This was one criticism some people made in the very beginning of the game. The only difficulty with this is that they will need to continue to update this system as new features and what not are added.

But this must also apply to the story. There does need to be a system placed into the game, one with much effort, that can adequately detail the past of the game, what has happened so far. I think implementing these living story dungeons into fractals is a great idea. But mainly because it doesn’t make much sense at all to keep them around as the world progresses. It seems very akward to have this one dungeon, frozen in time, as the rest of the living world progresses.

There are always two sides to everything.

To satisfy both parties you need to create both permanent and regular/temporary content as well. I´d say that permanent content should be larger and is more dificult to create and balance because it stays in the game till the dawn of servers. It needs more focus and testing than living story. In the future, there will be more permanent content (there already is some, like fractals and other things that stays behind after the particular LS arc is gone) and players are actually given diverse content every 14 days to keep them busy till the permanent content arrives.

So what is the problem? Ohh, here it is…I WANT EVERYTHING AND I WANT IT NOW FOR KITTENS SAKE AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! I WANT ALL THE SKINS AND ALL THE ACHIEVEMENTS AND I WANT TO GRIND THE ONE SAME THING EVERY DAY OVER AND OVER AGAIN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

That is the problem, isn´t it? That people in their nature want everything even though they do not need it for as little effort as possible.

I know that one of the reasons behind having permanent content is to be able to repeat it or get to it when you want but some things are not ment to be permant and/or are not ment to be for everyone.

Living story is an interesting idea and it keeps the game fresh. Yes, we need more permanent content but it can not be everything. Molten dungeon was great and I would love to replay it but it was destroyed as part of the story. Perhaps it will return as some other facility in different area as a regular dungeon with new bosses and mechanics.

Reading through the thread I had an idea…

Perhaps there could be something like the Super adventure box. Something like Asuran holographic simulation device that would let you play the LS dungeons again or in explorable mode. These wouldn´t have to be accurate in design because (lorewise) the holographic version would be based on the experience of the “travellers/adventurers” who went inside and survived. These would be often different and exagerated stories. The holographic boxes could be stationed in every main city except for Lions Arch so you would get people there. The dungeons would be added to the boxes 1-2 months after the particular LS arc is over because it takes tome for the Asuras to create the simulation. In there you would come across the same/altered/completely different versions of the bosses because, again, the simulation is based on the stories. There could be visible edges of the holograms and projectors to add to the simulation fealing. Rewards would have to be more expensive, for example, you need 1 RNG ticket for a weapon skin during regular LS. When the particular dungeon is uploaded to the holographic box you would need 2 RNG tickets for 1 skin etc. There could be Asuras near the boxes, acting like street performers or people from circus. “Come closer and be amazed. Experience the heroic actions that led to the defeat of the molten aliance yourself. Bring down the sky pirates and crush the crazed kharkas!” Perhaps it could be the Inquest with some sinister plan behind it.

Also..

Game of Thrones is irrelevant analogy, at least regular episodes are. With GW2 you get all the regulars episodes you can get. LS is more like some 15 minutes webepisodes that are available for 14 days. There is some story that expands the universe but it is not requied for you to watch em to understand the series. And some of the characters gets cast as regulars on the series.

Also..

You can not bring real life analogies into games because the two things are VERY different. There could be such analogies to opose your GoT one.

There is a discount for 10 products in a shop for 14 days. If you buy all 10 you get a free one time only gift. This guy wasn´t in town and wasn´t aware of it. Annother guy is a regular in that shop and in the 14 days he had bought 8 of the 10 products. Now, when the discount is over, the first guy finds out and goes to the shop and demands all of the 10 products to be discounted for him because he wasn´t around. The second guy wants the store to discount him the last 2 of the items because he didn´t have enough money to buy all of the products when discounted. Should the shop make the discounts for these two? Maybe. But they don´t have to because that was the offer, these particular 14 days, these 10 products, this one time free gift. It was advertised, you either put your time and money into it or you don´t. Plus, the store is there after the discount is over and they will offer another discounts and some of the products will be discounted permanently and some discounts will return again in time. And it still is one of the best shops in town.

Or…a lorewise scenario…sort of…

There is a band called ZZ Chars. They want to play in LA for couple days. They advertise that they will be in particular places during particular hours for couple of days. A couple of gigs and if you see at least 8 of the gigs they will give you a gift. The two humans from the first scenario have again the same problem. One is out of town and one doesn´t have money for all of the gigs. And there is this Silvary who can not stay for all of the performances because she has to answer her wild hunt in two days. After 14 days, after ZZ Chars succesfully toured Lions Arch the 3 meet at Crow’s Nest Tavern. And they complain that they couldn´t get the gifts, that they want to see ZZ Chars in LA everytime they want because it is not fair they do not perform every day or on demand. “You know this one song? It is great and I want to see em playing it every day. So lets go to the council to demand they get ZZ Chars back to play in LA for ever” “No.” The council replies “But you know what? There is another band performing in Divinity´s Reach right know. Yeah, that´s right, The Precursors are in Tyria and it´s gonna be legendary!”

So in conclusion, we need more permanent content but LS is not hurting the game. And there will be new permanent content, you just have to wait for it.

Pointy.9308:

There are always two sides to everything.

To satisfy both parties you need to create both permanent and regular/temporary content as well. I´d say that permanent content should be larger and is more dificult to create and balance because it stays in the game till the dawn of servers. It needs more focus and testing than living story. In the future, there will be more permanent content (there already is some, like fractals and other things that stays behind after the particular LS arc is gone) and players are actually given diverse content every 14 days to keep them busy till the permanent content arrives.

So what is the problem? Ohh, here it is…I WANT EVERYTHING AND I WANT IT NOW FOR KITTENS SAKE AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! I WANT ALL THE SKINS AND ALL THE ACHIEVEMENTS AND I WANT TO GRIND THE ONE SAME THING EVERY DAY OVER AND OVER AGAIN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

That is the problem, isn´t it? That people in their nature want everything even though they do not need it for as little effort as possible.

I know that one of the reasons behind having permanent content is to be able to repeat it or get to it when you want but some things are not ment to be permant and/or are not ment to be for everyone.

Living story is an interesting idea and it keeps the game fresh. Yes, we need more permanent content but it can not be everything. Molten dungeon was great and I would love to replay it but it was destroyed as part of the story. Perhaps it will return as some other facility in different area as a regular dungeon with new bosses and mechanics.

Reading through the thread I had an idea…

Perhaps there could be something like the Super adventure box. Something like Asuran holographic simulation device that would let you play the LS dungeons again or in explorable mode. These wouldn´t have to be accurate in design because (lorewise) the holographic version would be based on the experience of the “travellers/adventurers” who went inside and survived. These would be often different and exagerated stories. The holographic boxes could be stationed in every main city except for Lions Arch so you would get people there. The dungeons would be added to the boxes 1-2 months after the particular LS arc is over because it takes tome for the Asuras to create the simulation. In there you would come across the same/altered/completely different versions of the bosses because, again, the simulation is based on the stories. There could be visible edges of the holograms and projectors to add to the simulation fealing. Rewards would have to be more expensive, for example, you need 1 RNG ticket for a weapon skin during regular LS. When the particular dungeon is uploaded to the holographic box you would need 2 RNG tickets for 1 skin etc. There could be Asuras near the boxes, acting like street performers or people from circus. “Come closer and be amazed. Experience the heroic actions that led to the defeat of the molten aliance yourself. Bring down the sky pirates and crush the crazed kharkas!” Perhaps it could be the Inquest with some sinister plan behind it.

Also..

You know, I love this logic.
Let’s remove all the zones after we have done them…because it’s over…I mean we just killed Zhaitan…I shouldn’t be able to kill him again. Or that DE, or that ore node, or that tree.
Or the umpteen bosses people have killed, or entire planets worth of pirates, quaggans, deer, hogs, bugs, charr.

Oh wait…this is a game?

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

Kaaboose.3897:

“Oh no! I’m in a game and I don’t know what to do!” In this day and age the rescources to overcome this scenario are almost infinite. But let me throw you the most relevenat:

ASK SOMEBODY. It’s an MMO For crying out loud.

hehe this made me laugh but I dont think thats what Vayne really meant. I think he meant there is just no answer to the question.

Lets assume all content was released permanently. Now imagine a player who bought the game finished the whole storyline in a week and quit. He just logged on again today and asked you what he should do next?

Which one is the right answer?

Halloween, wintersday, lost short, flame and frost, The secret of southsun, dragon bash, sky pirates, the bazaar?

And thats at a high level
Some will suggest specifics they like..

Ohh man you really need to go try dragon ball its a blast! forget about dragon ball guild missions are amazing!

guild missions take too much effort, now skyhammer thats an awesome pvp map you really need to experience

Nahh forget about PvP not so secret now thats a challenge.

etc… etc..

Poor guy his head would explode before he decides what to do!

Thank you. This is the problem almost every person already finds coming back and not knowing what to do. We see some people ask on the forum and get half a dozen contradictory suggestions.

Hell, I play the game every day and sometimes I’m overwhelmed by all the content. I think with content every two weeks, this game would become impossibly clogged. The player base would spread out further and further and the people who claim that we’re losing players would have more to crow about.

This way, everyone that cares about the Living Story is more or less on the same page.

Without the tragedy of the Living “Story” (oh gods, what a misnomer), they wouldn’t have to release half made content every two weeks. They could actually take their time and put out something worth playing.

Oh look killcannon doesn’t like the living story, it must be not worth playing. I guess all the people who are enjoying it are mistaken.

Oh look, Vayne has nothing constructive to say…again.

Hate to tell you, many, many, many, many, many players don’t like it. And more every day.

The one and only thing it’s good for is to make people log in due to a content treadmill.

Many many players DO like it. What’s your point? I particularly like the current content. So do lots of people I’ve talked to.

More every day? Proof? Your experience? Maybe you only hear what you want to hear.

Khal Drogo.9631:

A lot may disagree with me, I am glad to see the back of SAB and Mr Invulnerable to all but Mines.

I agree with you. Hope the only way SAB ever comes back is in a separate game. And Cannach…that content made me feel bad for Anet.

Vayne.8563:

I particularly like the current content. So do lots of people I’ve talked to.

We aren’t talking whether or not you or anyone else like the content… But is there anything good about removing it?

So do like the fact that the content we get is temporary? Why?!

killcannon.2576:

It keeps people logging in so they don’t miss the content.

Then it sure isn’t working for me… I don’t have much time for playing lately so it’s pretty discouraging that I miss a lot of stuff.

HiddenNick.7206:

killcannon.2576:

It keeps people logging in so they don’t miss the content.

Then it sure isn’t working for me… I don’t have much time for playing lately so it’s pretty discouraging that I miss a lot of stuff.

Ahh, you see there’s the hook.

Do you feel bad for missing it? Do you wish you could play more so you didn’t miss it? Do you feel left out because you didn’t get to play it?

Welcome to the MMO hook.

Also, see Quartz!