Guild Wars 2

The game is centered around events heavily, yet karma is only useful for one set of armor in Orr, and various skins on par with lower level items.

We simply need more things to spend karma on.

There are few rewards in both PvP and PvE. Chests from puzzles, dragons and dungeons drop various vendor trash, blues and greens and the occasional yellow worth 10-15s. There’s no burn, no urge to really grind.

Heads up folks, MMOs are about grinding. How it’s implemented is what determines if it’s a good or bad form of grinding. Gambling for legendary precursors or saving up 300-700g over the course of months is probably one of the worst forms yet.

The cosmetic approach, the approach for all to have fun and be equal feels like it will be the downfall of this game after a few months of everyone doing the same things.

I’m amazed that I’m actually desiring a worthwhile grind, and am amazed that there are no real loot tables in such a successful MMO title.

MMOs are not about grinding.

The vocal minority on the forum do not represent the playerbase. This game was advertised as not requiring a grind and most people bought the game because of the advertising rather than just randomly picking it up – therefore most of us expect to not have to grind.

Thank you.

Jestunhi.7429:

MMOs are not about grinding.

The vocal minority on the forum do not represent the playerbase. This game was advertised as not requiring a grind and most people bought the game because of the advertising rather than just randomly picking it up – therefore most of us expect to not have to grind.

Thank you.

Replace the word grind with having to work for “anything”. Character progression with reward is the most important part of these games.

If you don’t understand this component to online games, you just don’t get it.

I’m going to say that you’ve missed the entire point of GW2, Cezton.

Raf.1078:

I’m going to say that you’ve missed the entire point of GW2, Cezton.

What point is that? I have fun doing silly things. I like to be adventurous and explore the world. I enjoy getting up achievements and just dorking around.

But when I look at character progression, and how other characters differ from each other around the world, things feel very much limited and the same.

Dungeons, dragons, chests all over, have the exact same rewards.

All I’m saying is that there should be more to reach for in this game.

No matter what is said, these games are about grinding to an extent. How you interpret this is up to you. I’ve never been a fan of crazed repetitive grinding, but having little to no form of this at all is something else.

What I’m reaching at does not require changing the game in any real radical way between players who play a lot, and players who don’t. I know there’s a way to cater to everyone without making everyone do the same things in the same ways.

Funny. In GW and now GW2 the “most important part” is missing.
And yet BOTH games are highly successful.

I Am sure there is someone here that is not getting something…

Cezton.2415:

Replace the word grind with having to work for “anything”. Character progression with reward is the most important part of these games.

If you don’t understand this component to online games, you just don’t get it.

My character has progressed and I have been rewarded.

If you like the other online games, why are you here? This one is designed to be different. There are dozens of grind-fests. Anything out of Korea will give you hours of tedious, repetitive grinding to get gear good enough to compete with those who started a few months before you.

Then I guess GW2 is not the game for you OP.

Have a nice life.

I totally agree that there should be more to spend karma on! They are increasing the ways to get karma to instances, etc… which is great, except there’s nothing I want to buy. Stuff like emotes, town clothes, minis, a special logo for our login screen… whatever. Just more karma sinks.

An abysmal conversion rate of 1k karma per-gem would give me something to do with them…. hrmm, or maybe I just haven’t found the right vendor items to purchase to post on the TP? Off to research!

Calavera.1086:

Then I guess GW2 is not the game for you OP.

Have a nice life.

This.

Don’t take it badly, it’s not a bad thing.

No game can appeal to everyone.

… there’s plenty to grind on. I know the Shelter’s event all too well. >.<

I think the OP’s keyword is “worthwhile”, and that’s too subjective for anyone to really respond to… especially in the context of a game.

Should be more to spend Karma on. It is odd that the Temple events in orr spawn NPC’s with exotic quality gear, yet no other Meta even NPC does.

I would personally add “exotic” line from 1-80 (in the end it wouldn’t be too bad), but sprinkle vendors at end of Meta events. Such as the Shadow behemoth. Have him killed and spawn a level appropriate Karma vendor with exotic quality gear (stated for that level of course) and unique skin to the mob. Would add more inventive to spend rather than hoard Karma to 80.

For the most part… loot tables aren’t being used for unique items. I haven’t really decided if I like being able to grind/farm for currency to buy whatever I feel like in the order I feel like. It’s still the same amount of work, but maybe the disconnect devalues the work involved? But then again, the karma changes and having (even forcing) you to vary the methods of obtaining your goals is pretty good… except the one set per-instance thing, but the 60 tokens for daily paths is pretty kitten nice. Just over 2 days of unique exp paths gets you a 2h weapon skin…

Yeah OP is pretty much correct and I don’t know why there’s so many people replying here getting their panties in a twist because someone dared suggest an MMO needs some form of grind.

It’s all very well saying “this game doesn’t require you to grind” but what is there actually to do at 80, after the 2/3 days it takes you to get BiS gear. Grind for months, with no reward in the meantime, for a legendary? No thanks, I’ll pass on that. There’s nothing to work towards at the moment and you’re kidding yourself if you don’t see that this will be a big problem for the game if it isn’t addressed (having said that, I’m confident that it is something ANet is aware of and is working on).

Maybe it’s just me but the gameplay in this type of hotbar based action game frankly isn’t entertaining enough (like it would in an FPS) to just play with no incentive/reward.

Cezton.2415:

Heads up folks, MMOs are about grinding.

Heads up Cezton, you’re obviously looking for another game. Have you tried Diablo 3? I hear good things from both people playing it. Or maybe try out Progress Quest.

I’m pretty sure GW1 was a success, as was DAoC, which also had a gear plateau at end-game.

Stop telling me the game is garbage just because you want to log in and do a bunch of stuff you don’t enjoy so that later you’ll get 5 seconds of enjoyment out of picking up a new item. I’m too busy logging in and doing stuff I do enjoy because I don’t need to concern myself with chasing the newest item that I need to keep up with the game.

For me, MMO is about playing with friends and have fun when we have time.

warmonkey.8013:

Cezton.2415:

Heads up folks, MMOs are about grinding.

Stop telling me the game is garbage just because you want to log in and do a bunch of stuff you don’t enjoy so that later you’ll get 5 seconds of enjoyment out of picking up a new item.

I never said this.

The game just doesn’t have enough rewards and choices to spend your currency on.

Grinding doesn’t have to mean what you think I mean by it. I’ve never enjoyed the mindless grind, clearly you haven’t read the core of my post.

How anyone could be fine with the karma vendor choices, and the fact that doing dragons/dungeons and other chests give you the same 1s-10s pieces of loot is beyond me (inevitably it amounts to mindless grinding in any case for anything worth very hefty sums of gold), but we all have our own opinions.

Nothing wrong with variety of choice in any case. Not sure why so many people are vehemently against this. It’s not like I’m waving a flag demanding that there be a Korean like grind scheme to this game. I’m not doing that at all.

Eridani.8317 – What do you want to do at 80?

Instead of asking what ANet wants you to do, tell me what you would enjoy doing.

Not how you would like to be rewarded for doing it, but what you would actually enjoy doing.

The cosmetic approach is the same one they used in Guild Wars 1. That game is in its 7th year and they just started their Halloween event a few days before us.

If it did not kill GW1, why would it kill GW2? They know how many people were playing GW1 before launch of GW2. So they have a good indicator of sustainability. They have based their decisions on their previously successful model.

Jestunhi.7429:

Eridani.8317 – What do you want to do at 80?

You’re not asking me but i’ll answer:

At 80 i want PvE that’s simmilarly easily accessible as it is at lower levels.
Note that i’m not asking for easy PvE, in fact i think many of the events are to easy with a large group, imo scaling of events needs tweaking.

But i do not want be forced to move around a zone on foot because most waypoints are contested, while in addition i’m being at best slowed down (at worst killed) by large numbers of mobs – when my objective is to find ongoing events and join the local zerg-for-the-occasion.
I do not want to spend much time soloing while looking for the fun parts of the game.

The ingame group finder – or what has to pass for that – is in practice not effective.

Nor do i want to be forced to use map chat; that’s hopelessly primitive, equivalent to me having to call friends on the phone to ask them to join a server for a FPS game such as Quake – which back in those days was never an issue (and still isn’t) because one could/can find multiple populated servers any hour of the day or night.

It should not be so that in a massively multiplayer game it is often harder to find multplayer action than it is in just about any (not massively) multiplayer FPS or tactical shooter.

I’m not going to name names, but if grinding is what you want there’s plenty of games that will accommodate you.

Too much equality? Hah, I’m not going to name names either, but there’s other games out there for you.

I for one am enjoying the fact that 2% of the players don’t have godly gear allowing them to waggle their kittens in our faces. If that’s what you find fun, then I respectfully suggest you go back to the more traditional MMOs that cater to that kind of trash.

enos.1580:

Too much equality? Hah, I’m not going to name names either, but there’s other games out there for you.

I for one am enjoying the fact that 2% of the players don’t have godly gear allowing them to waggle their kittens in our faces. If that’s what you find fun, then I respectfully suggest you go back to the more traditional MMOs that cater to that kind of trash.

so you basically want something easy. where everyone can get everything. this game lacks challenge imo. unique skins, and legendary weapons are not hard to achieve. all it takes to get them is time. the “2%” of players in other games, that have “godly gear”, which in no way affects your experience, most likely had to do something challenging to acquire it. i too think this game has to much equality. everyone can get anything. not by skill, but by time invested, or gold spent. there is no challenging content to do to give players a sense of accomplishment.

im not going to name names but if you aren’t grinding your not actually doing anything. Grinding is a type of repetitive activity. Now if only fanboys would stop being idiots to understand the difference between the mechanics of grinding and the negatives of pointless busy work grinding.

The game need things to grind for a few weeks at a time . I wouldn’t mind a kitten skin cap that is forged from a few stacks of exotic nocturnal beaver-man butts. or even a pile of exquisite mighty gossamer insignias for some arcane mat hunting adventure

It’s interesting to see the no grind in GW1 posts. We must have played different versions.

Grinding obsidian, chaos gloves, bosses for tomes and rare/unique skins UW, Fow, Tombs, the deeps, DoA and quite a few other things.

Some of that transitioned to GW2 but, not really the parts I found fun. In a lot of ways this game threw a lot of GW1 away.

The game need things to grind for a few weeks at a time .

Why does it “need” that?

There’s no sub fee, so they don’t need you endlessly spinning your wheels for months on end so you’ll impulsively re-up in hopes of catching the elusive carrot.

New content will be added as time goes on. If you see something in that content that interests you, you’ll pay for it, if not, you don’t have to and won’t be restricted from performing alongside others because some stratifying force puts you on unequal terms.

Going to another thread, I couldn’t have said it better than this…

“There is a clear lack of personal progression in this game. In other MMOs, progression is usually achieved through gear and the gear treadmill.

Here that treadmill is more of a short walk and thus not capable of retaining players. The cosmetic treadmill is there yes, but it’s still shorter than the typical gear statistical treadmill of other games and therefore not capable of retaining players for the long haul either. If there’s one thing that the sucky drops have proven, it’s that the items and gear loot tables in this game lack diversity.

While playing for fun is great and refreshing, that is only one half of the puzzle, similarly as only playing for character progression is only one half. ArenaNet needs to bring the pieces together and make content that introduces progression paths that are fun and worthwhile.

This is why the game seems stale and boring post 80. With that being said, for $60 this game was an absolute steal."

The game is worth every cent, but not everybody finds goofing around with cosmetics fun, and not everybody is just looking to play for 1 or 2 hours a day. There will always be those who want to put more hours into a game for whatever reason there is. Therein lies the addictive mechanism of these such games.

I don’t even go to Orr anymore. Just seeing 30+ people grouped on one event hopelessly trying to make money, and get world drops all at the same time with such a dry event is nauseating. Where’s the variety in PvE? PvP seems much stronger.

And also, to the whole no monthly fee thing… This is such a huge, beautiful game. Why not add more to reach for?

Dear Cezton.2415

+1 to you my friend your correct, this game suxs donkey crap… For me its a time toilet till something good comes out. Because games today are sooo fing bad, I am tempted to stop playing any mmo’s all together. FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER in history guru3d and game spot have made post’s and video about games of today being tooo dumbed down. This is a rising issue for vets that have had years to hone their gaming skills. As a true reality it is becoming, video games arnt going to be the same any more. A good mmo needs grind, thats what they were about. Take away that element and you got games like this. 3 weeks 4 hours aday = done, I have nothing left to do. Games of today are focusing tooo much on new generations of players and forgetting about the vets. OR maybe people are just lazy as hell now and dont want to work for anything.

As an example to how fail this game is, myself and my friend have grinded to lvl 68 with out using any armor or accessories. WHAT game out there, lets u grind almost to end game with out using any armor?? its unreal… this game is a amusement park, not a mmo.

In 2006 Cabal online came out, the only game I have seen where u could run a dungeon 10000 + times and have maybe 0.5% chance to get a forcium drop or a cape. Games like that arnt made any more, its all about “hand holding now”

TBH, something that is often forgotten is that one may ahve different sets of armor for different builds and purposes, along with different weapons. There is max gear, and there is max gear. I personally have liked the equality approach since GW1, and am glad it is not like many others MMOs in that regards (no offense.) But it is not as simple as saying “everybody is equal” because:

a)Our gear stats may be VERY different.

b)Not ALL players have exotic everything (accessories included), and Gold Guild backbraces/bagpacks.

c)Rune sets/mix & matches make armor sets very different from each other.

That makes it so that even if EVERYBODY had max gear, which isn’t usually the case (I still don’t have max gear myself, though am getting there), our characters may play VERY differently from each other according to different stat emphasis and builds/weapon/trait combos.

In short, it’s not that easy to “max out” a character, and when you finally do, you have plenty of options in the way you are going to go about it (offense, defense, condition, healing?) You may be maxed, but you are not really “the same” as everybody else-you’ll just be on more “equal grounds”, which is quite healthy, IMHO. Perhaps, you can add more significance to those fluff armor options by choosing different stats emphasis/runes for them, so they no longer are important to you only due to looks, but also because they will require a slightly different approach/build, or have a different purpose for you in the game (I.E. alternative armor sets, for different things, with different skins/runes/stats.)

IME from GW1, MANY, MANY more armor options will be added in time for different purposes other than just the looks. I understand the GW approach is not for everybody, though and that’s ok, but the GW approach IS valid, because it certainly has many adherents-the ones who will leave won’t do so because the game sucks, but just because it’s a system they can’t relate to. But it has worked in the past, and it’s even more diverse now (though I don’t love many of the skins myself).

In my honest opinion if they are going to add any vertical progression to the endgame they should borrow from daoc. (not war) and add rr to the game. the abilities did give a slight boost but was easily overcome in most cases. Armor in that game was essentially just templated fluff (once you had your gems and few items thats it just sc the rest and youre all equal!) so the real progression / skill was your herald stats, rr, and how well your realm (server) was doing at any one time.

I don’t log into a pvp centric game thinking of how awesome its going to be to grind 20 mobs so i can kill someone. DAoC, shadowbane, etc were more i logged in to see if we could push to claim ex keep that day, see how many duels i could win, for that epic relic raid, etc. knowing that at the end of the day it was a epic battle i could talk about with the guild and have fun at. did i progress? marginally but it was by no means a primary focus. i like that gw2 is bringing that feeling back to some degree. and as people get more organized it will be even more so.

There are alot of players who wanted a gear treadmill. Those people have forgotten that the game has NO MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION. There is nothing stopping you and your ilk from going elsewhere to get your grind on. Anet has your money already. Come back when they release an expansion. Or don’t The game wasn’t aimed at the traditional MMO audience. There’s enough players who actually enjoy the gameplay, and gear isn’t the primary reason we log in. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it. What can I say?

While I’m playing GW2 I’m traveling around the maps, trying all the event chains, talking to named NPC’s to see what they have to say and so on I’m having so much fun I totally forget about progression. After starting to gather materials to lvl my crafting I often end up on the other side of the map while doing an event chain. With all the stories that you can find in the events, area’s, NPC’s and jump puzzles I often gained a bunch of cash and skillpoints whithout even noticing. So far I don’t see any reason why MMO’s should be about grinding or progressoin, because I’m having a lot of fun in this MMO without doing any of that. That the best known MMO is all about grinding your brain out, progression that no real casual player can keep up with (like those who play only 8-12 hours a week) and holding your hand doesn’t mean that all MMO’s should be like that. If some people enjoy those things ; there is the perfect game for you, and it’s not GW2.

MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online, not for More grinding, More progression and Over again.

Necromancin.1470:

Dear Cezton.2415

+1 to you my friend your correct, this game suxs donkey crap… For me its a time toilet till something good comes out. Because games today are sooo fing bad, I am tempted to stop playing any mmo’s all together. FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER in history guru3d and game spot have made post’s and video about games of today being tooo dumbed down. This is a rising issue for vets that have had years to hone their gaming skills. As a true reality it is becoming, video games arnt going to be the same any more. A good mmo needs grind, thats what they were about. Take away that element and you got games like this. 3 weeks 4 hours aday = done, I have nothing left to do. Games of today are focusing tooo much on new generations of players and forgetting about the vets. OR maybe people are just lazy as hell now and dont want to work for anything.

As an example to how fail this game is, myself and my friend have grinded to lvl 68 with out using any armor or accessories. WHAT game out there, lets u grind almost to end game with out using any armor?? its unreal… this game is a amusement park, not a mmo.

In 2006 Cabal online came out, the only game I have seen where u could run a dungeon 10000 + times and have maybe 0.5% chance to get a forcium drop or a cape. Games like that arnt made any more, its all about “hand holding now”

So a game that doesn’t require you to spend 30hours+ a week to get anywhere is “Hand holding now”…. Dude, why don’t you go back and play Cabal Online then? What’s stopping you? Any Korean mmo would give you the grind you want. I don’t want my hand held, I want my skill as a player to matter more than the items stats. I play for PvP, so your argument is only valid for PvE. Last I checked this game was heavily marketed for it’s PvP…… Who invited these “hardcore MMO Vets”? “Lollercopterroflskates”….

Necromancin.1470:

Dear Cezton.2415

+1 to you my friend your correct, this game suxs donkey crap… For me its a time toilet till something good comes out. Because games today are sooo fing bad, I am tempted to stop playing any mmo’s all together. FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER in history guru3d and game spot have made post’s and video about games of today being tooo dumbed down. This is a rising issue for vets that have had years to hone their gaming skills. As a true reality it is becoming, video games arnt going to be the same any more. A good mmo needs grind, thats what they were about. Take away that element and you got games like this. 3 weeks 4 hours aday = done, I have nothing left to do. Games of today are focusing tooo much on new generations of players and forgetting about the vets. OR maybe people are just lazy as hell now and dont want to work for anything.

As an example to how fail this game is, myself and my friend have grinded to lvl 68 with out using any armor or accessories. WHAT game out there, lets u grind almost to end game with out using any armor?? its unreal… this game is a amusement park, not a mmo.

In 2006 Cabal online came out, the only game I have seen where u could run a dungeon 10000 + times and have maybe 0.5% chance to get a forcium drop or a cape. Games like that arnt made any more, its all about “hand holding now”

You should stop playing GW 2 now. This is SO is not the game for you.

Oh and farming a instance 10000+ times to get a 0.5% change to get something
isn’t something i consider fun….

Necromancin.1470:

Dear Cezton.2415

+1 to you my friend your correct, this game suxs donkey crap… For me its a time toilet till something good comes out. Because games today are sooo fing bad, I am tempted to stop playing any mmo’s all together. FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER in history guru3d and game spot have made post’s and video about games of today being tooo dumbed down. This is a rising issue for vets that have had years to hone their gaming skills. As a true reality it is becoming, video games arnt going to be the same any more. A good mmo needs grind, thats what they were about. Take away that element and you got games like this. 3 weeks 4 hours aday = done, I have nothing left to do. Games of today are focusing tooo much on new generations of players and forgetting about the vets. OR maybe people are just lazy as hell now and dont want to work for anything.

As an example to how fail this game is, myself and my friend have grinded to lvl 68 with out using any armor or accessories. WHAT game out there, lets u grind almost to end game with out using any armor?? its unreal… this game is a amusement park, not a mmo.

In 2006 Cabal online came out, the only game I have seen where u could run a dungeon 10000 + times and have maybe 0.5% chance to get a forcium drop or a cape. Games like that arnt made any more, its all about “hand holding now”

Just because a game doesn’t require you to spend 40+ hours a week in it does not mean its holding my hand. being able to log in and run pvp for a couple hours a knock out a dungeon and then log off is where gaming is for the majority of us young adults. i started off in eq 1 when i was a kid and had the time and lack of will to do anything else but grind out that kitten dungeon for 10000 runs. beat the hell levels, and kept on going. guess what i dont want to go back it wasnt fun then i was just a bored teen in a military family (move to much to make friends)

Now that most of my age group has moved on to life i think the majority of us love this game for its equality. we can still progress and have fun and still compete while still being able to devote time to the real world. Im sorry that a game was built that finally catered to the pvp crowd that is also married, has jobs, and goes to college… actually no im not. please go play eq1 its still around, farm endlessly in aion or lineage 2, even run eq2 or wow. all are great alternatives to what you’re looking for. but for the rest of us we will enjoy the ability to be as casual or hardcore as we want and still be equal.

Cezton.2415:

I never said this.

The game just doesn’t have enough rewards and choices to spend your currency on.

The title of this thread is “Too much equality”

Here’s a quote from the first post.

The cosmetic approach, the approach for all to have fun and be equal feels like it will be the downfall of this game after a few months of everyone doing the same things.

For all the be equal is part of the problem, you say.

Nah.. nah. That’s the #1 reason I waited until the last minute to pre-order (just in time for the headstart). I waited until I heard, from many of my guildmates, that there was no gear grind, that there wasn’t a gear treadmill, and that end-game gear was pretty easily attainable.

Nah.. nah. That’s the #1 reason I waited until the last minute to pre-order (just in time for the headstart). I waited until I heard, from many of my guildmates, that there was no gear grind, that there wasn’t a gear treadmill, and that end-game gear was pretty easily attainable.That’s what I want. Gear plateau. Cosmetic differences I’m down with — I’m about to go all hardcore mode to try and get the Halloween Scythe skin for my staff — but I will not ever play another MMO that’s going to structure their game around an endless chase after the newest shiniest stat sticks.
If I grind for gear, I’d like it to be my choice — not a necessity if I don’t wish to be left behind with inferior gear.
If I decide I’m too busy to log in for 2-3 weeks — I don’t want to regret maybe missing out on a drop I had been hoping to get for a long time.

Nah.. nah. That’s the #1 reason I waited until the last minute to pre-order (just in time for the headstart). I waited until I heard, from many of my guildmates, that there was no gear grind, that there wasn’t a gear treadmill, and that end-game gear was pretty easily attainable.That’s what I want. Gear plateau. Cosmetic differences I’m down with — I’m about to go all hardcore mode to try and get the Halloween Scythe skin for my staff — but I will not ever play another MMO that’s going to structure their game around an endless chase after the newest shiniest stat sticks.
If I grind for gear, I’d like it to be my choice — not a necessity if I don’t wish to be left behind with inferior gear.
If I decide I’m too busy to log in for 2-3 weeks — I don’t want to regret maybe missing out on a drop I had been hoping to get for a long time.I haven’t done close to half the dungeons in this game. I have done quite a few that I have no intention of getting anything from — I tend to only play one character, and while AC tokens would be nice for my warrior, he’s level 16 and will likely not hit 20 given a month’s time, and they’re useless for my necro.
I run ‘em because it’s fun, because other guys in my guild would like to and my gosh, IT’S JUST FUN! I don’t care about the rewards. It’s just something fun to do, if I feel like it. If I decide it wouldn’t be fun for me, right then, at that moment? I don’t have to, and will never have to ever again until it seems like something fun to do.

Nah.. nah. That’s the #1 reason I waited until the last minute to pre-order (just in time for the headstart). I waited until I heard, from many of my guildmates, that there was no gear grind, that there wasn’t a gear treadmill, and that end-game gear was pretty easily attainable.That’s what I want. Gear plateau. Cosmetic differences I’m down with — I’m about to go all hardcore mode to try and get the Halloween Scythe skin for my staff — but I will not ever play another MMO that’s going to structure their game around an endless chase after the newest shiniest stat sticks.
If I grind for gear, I’d like it to be my choice — not a necessity if I don’t wish to be left behind with inferior gear.
If I decide I’m too busy to log in for 2-3 weeks — I don’t want to regret maybe missing out on a drop I had been hoping to get for a long time.I haven’t done close to half the dungeons in this game. I have done quite a few that I have no intention of getting anything from — I tend to only play one character, and while AC tokens would be nice for my warrior, he’s level 16 and will likely not hit 20 given a month’s time, and they’re useless for my necro.
I run ‘em because it’s fun, because other guys in my guild would like to and my gosh, IT’S JUST FUN! I don’t care about the rewards. It’s just something fun to do, if I feel like it. If I decide it wouldn’t be fun for me, right then, at that moment? I don’t have to, and will never have to ever again until it seems like something fun to do.I don’t need karma for anything. I still do events, because it’s fun. Why? Can’t tell you. I get nothing out of it, but that’s just it — I’m just doing it because it’s something fun to do at the time, and I will never feel a compulsion to do something that isn’t fun for me, right then, at that time.

Nah.. nah. That’s the #1 reason I waited until the last minute to pre-order (just in time for the headstart). I waited until I heard, from many of my guildmates, that there was no gear grind, that there wasn’t a gear treadmill, and that end-game gear was pretty easily attainable.That’s what I want. Gear plateau. Cosmetic differences I’m down with — I’m about to go all hardcore mode to try and get the Halloween Scythe skin for my staff — but I will not ever play another MMO that’s going to structure their game around an endless chase after the newest shiniest stat sticks.
If I grind for gear, I’d like it to be my choice — not a necessity if I don’t wish to be left behind with inferior gear.
If I decide I’m too busy to log in for 2-3 weeks — I don’t want to regret maybe missing out on a drop I had been hoping to get for a long time.I haven’t done close to half the dungeons in this game. I have done quite a few that I have no intention of getting anything from — I tend to only play one character, and while AC tokens would be nice for my warrior, he’s level 16 and will likely not hit 20 given a month’s time, and they’re useless for my necro.
I run ‘em because it’s fun, because other guys in my guild would like to and my gosh, IT’S JUST FUN! I don’t care about the rewards. It’s just something fun to do, if I feel like it. If I decide it wouldn’t be fun for me, right then, at that moment? I don’t have to, and will never have to ever again until it seems like something fun to do.I don’t need karma for anything. I still do events, because it’s fun. Why? Can’t tell you. I get nothing out of it, but that’s just it — I’m just doing it because it’s something fun to do at the time, and I will never feel a compulsion to do something that isn’t fun for me, right then, at that time.You guys want your grind? You think GW2 is “dumbed down”? How much fun was it, honestly, in EQ, to either rush online right after a server reset (I hope you logged out in the right place!) to try and catch a mob spawn that drops a particular item you need? How much fun was it to see someone already there but at least breathe a sigh of relief that you’d at least get an accurate respawn time out of it? C’mon now — that is dumb. Tell me it’s not, I dare you.

Nah.. nah. That’s the #1 reason I waited until the last minute to pre-order (just in time for the headstart). I waited until I heard, from many of my guildmates, that there was no gear grind, that there wasn’t a gear treadmill, and that end-game gear was pretty easily attainable.That’s what I want. Gear plateau. Cosmetic differences I’m down with — I’m about to go all hardcore mode to try and get the Halloween Scythe skin for my staff — but I will not ever play another MMO that’s going to structure their game around an endless chase after the newest shiniest stat sticks.
If I grind for gear, I’d like it to be my choice — not a necessity if I don’t wish to be left behind with inferior gear.
If I decide I’m too busy to log in for 2-3 weeks — I don’t want to regret maybe missing out on a drop I had been hoping to get for a long time.I haven’t done close to half the dungeons in this game. I have done quite a few that I have no intention of getting anything from — I tend to only play one character, and while AC tokens would be nice for my warrior, he’s level 16 and will likely not hit 20 given a month’s time, and they’re useless for my necro.
I run ‘em because it’s fun, because other guys in my guild would like to and my gosh, IT’S JUST FUN! I don’t care about the rewards. It’s just something fun to do, if I feel like it. If I decide it wouldn’t be fun for me, right then, at that moment? I don’t have to, and will never have to ever again until it seems like something fun to do.I don’t need karma for anything. I still do events, because it’s fun. Why? Can’t tell you. I get nothing out of it, but that’s just it — I’m just doing it because it’s something fun to do at the time, and I will never feel a compulsion to do something that isn’t fun for me, right then, at that time.You guys want your grind? You think GW2 is “dumbed down”? How much fun was it, honestly, in EQ, to either rush online right after a server reset (I hope you logged out in the right place!) to try and catch a mob spawn that drops a particular item you need? How much fun was it to see someone already there but at least breathe a sigh of relief that you’d at least get an accurate respawn time out of it? C’mon now — that is dumb. Tell me it’s not, I dare you.I do find it amusing that, in finishing that bit and then reading further into this thread, the guy above me also brought up EQ. Heh.

Nah.. nah. That’s the #1 reason I waited until the last minute to pre-order (just in time for the headstart). I waited until I heard, from many of my guildmates, that there was no gear grind, that there wasn’t a gear treadmill, and that end-game gear was pretty easily attainable.That’s what I want. Gear plateau. Cosmetic differences I’m down with — I’m about to go all hardcore mode to try and get the Halloween Scythe skin for my staff — but I will not ever play another MMO that’s going to structure their game around an endless chase after the newest shiniest stat sticks.
If I grind for gear, I’d like it to be my choice — not a necessity if I don’t wish to be left behind with inferior gear.
If I decide I’m too busy to log in for 2-3 weeks — I don’t want to regret maybe missing out on a drop I had been hoping to get for a long time.I haven’t done close to half the dungeons in this game. I have done quite a few that I have no intention of getting anything from — I tend to only play one character, and while AC tokens would be nice for my warrior, he’s level 16 and will likely not hit 20 given a month’s time, and they’re useless for my necro.
I run ‘em because it’s fun, because other guys in my guild would like to and my gosh, IT’S JUST FUN! I don’t care about the rewards. It’s just something fun to do, if I feel like it. If I decide it wouldn’t be fun for me, right then, at that moment? I don’t have to, and will never have to ever again until it seems like something fun to do.I don’t need karma for anything. I still do events, because it’s fun. Why? Can’t tell you. I get nothing out of it, but that’s just it — I’m just doing it because it’s something fun to do at the time, and I will never feel a compulsion to do something that isn’t fun for me, right then, at that time.You guys want your grind? You think GW2 is “dumbed down”? How much fun was it, honestly, in EQ, to either rush online right after a server reset (I hope you logged out in the right place!) to try and catch a mob spawn that drops a particular item you need? How much fun was it to see someone already there but at least breathe a sigh of relief that you’d at least get an accurate respawn time out of it? C’mon now — that is dumb. Tell me it’s not, I dare you.I do find it amusing that, in finishing that bit and then reading further into this thread, the guy above me also brought up EQ. Heh.DAoC’s endgame model was always better than EQ’s. WoW simply took EQ’s endgame model and updated it, but at the core it was no different at all. GW2 is taking DAoC’s model, and for that we thank you. Just, uh, don’t take a big steamy TOA on me please, PvP guys may PvE but we (I…) are rankled when the PvE is forced on us (…me).

Funny thing is I’m usually the one that plays hard and plays often, getting the gear advantage over everyone else.

Yet I enjoy not having to bother doing so in this game. I even have made more than 1 max level toon already (which has been very uncommon for me to do in other games).

Do you guys believe ANet will break up their promise and go to completely different direction since they start the company cause even Guild Wars One there is no gear threadmills in the game, gears in GW1 is also aesthetic.
- I can see lot of you guys quit GW2 bacause it never offer gear threadmills that you want and that moment the game will left people who don’t mind the aspect of the game, and this thread that you all whining will be gone with the wind. Like it were in GW1
- In Addition, GW2 do has gear grind like other MMORPG game, but the differnet is it has the limited max gears (level 80 Exotic is the max gears), unlike other tradition MMORPG there are no max gear you have to grind endlessly to get the max stats.
- So let imagine if ANet overturn their philosophy, break their promise and implement gear threadmills in to GW2
- which mean there are gears set beyond level 80 Exotic and Legendary, so I named it Legendary tier 1,2,3,4,5,…,x (I assume)
- At some point when you get Legendary tier x which mean you come to outgear more than the content of the game (even down scaling wouldnt solve the issue). Outgear players will have less challenge in the game, they hardly die, they easily kill the mobs and bosses
- WvWvW become worse than it is today, it will become completely unbalanced massive PVP game. We have zerg army in WvWvW is bad, now we have zerg army with superior gears
- In the next step there will have some people whining that there is no content for people who have tier X gears.
- So it’s mean ANet have to push the new contents for Tier x gears players, so other people who have under gear must grind to get Tier X gears if they want to get to the new contents.
- And Wah-Lah we have another WoW-Clone game with better graphic like you guys want to.
- Don’t get me wrong I see this game has the flaws and it need more character progression at end game. But there are a lot of progressions (such as reputation and honor grinding, player housing, guild housing, QPs in tournament) that can make players keep playing by having no affect to stats progression.
- IMO the main problem is GW2 lack of ranking system, armory that make people know how achivement we got, what trophies we got, what set of gears we collect (Wardrobe system). Also I think GW2 has lack of varied attribute on gears, the set of stats number in gears are too constant.

I agree with you. Those in here who do not have chosen to ignore the elephant in the room. And that is fine. These forums sound more like SWTOR forums every day. Someone comes in and says things need to change, fanboys say gtfo.

Fact is, the majority of folks will leave, especially after this Halloween stupidity, after several months.

No hard feelings, the game is fun but when you have no reason to play, people quit.

My favorite part of this all is listening to the fanboys say they hate grinding in all those other mmo’s but that is all this game is at 80. No mid/maxing, no skill adjusting, no experimentation, no world threatening monster that needs to be dealt with, no being the “best.” No. Just you, a few monsters, and your keyboard

Part of mmo’s is feeling like you are on a journey to be the best, but when you realize that you will never be special because of your effort, you stop trying.

I really wanted this game to work, but as the others have gone, so will this. Continue to flame on FB’s. God love’ya, but you will soon see.

I think there’s more equality in grinding games. In those, unemployed people are the best of the best, the cream of the crop, the elite. They’ve got the right stuff. No jobs. Here, it’s down to skill, that’s hardly fair on the unskilled is it? At least in other games they could quit their jobs and move into a basement and still be the best.

Azthioth.9682:

I agree with you. Those in here who do not have chosen to ignore the elephant in the room. And that is fine. These forums sound more like SWTOR forums every day. Someone comes in and says things need to change, fanboys say gtfo.

The same things I see in any MMORPG games official forums, there are always has whiners in forums asking for devs to make the game for satisfying them. The different between GW2 and SWTOR is SWTOR has subscription, GW2 not. SWTOR trying to be WoW-wannabe, GW2 not. SWTOR has gear treadmills, GW2 not.

Azthioth.9682:

Fact is, the majority of folks will leave, especially after this Halloween stupidity, after several months.

No hard feelings, the game is fun but when you have no reason to play, people quit.

As I said, I can see lot of you guys will quit this game because it is unlike any tradition MMO games that you guys want to. Also there are plenty of MMORPG games out there have gear treadmill with stats progressions. Eventually, it will left players who don’t mind the aspect of the game, and GW2 has its own successful as it did in GW1.

Azthioth.9682:

My favorite part of this all is listening to the fanboys say they hate grinding in all those other mmo’s but that is all this game is at 80. No mid/maxing, no skill adjusting, no experimentation, no world threatening monster that needs to be dealt with, no being the “best.” No. Just you, a few monsters, and your keyboard

Part of mmo’s is feeling like you are on a journey to be the best, but when you realize that you will never be special because of your effort, you stop trying.

You can be special in GW2 too, just grind to get full set of Level 80 Exotic Gears with Legendary weapon, that’s make you special, also if you want more special in PVP-side you can join Tournament and earn QP point. The problem is some of you guys just ignore and rant over the forums when you see this game has limited stats progression, thats all.

Azthioth.9682:

I really wanted this game to work, but as the others have gone, so will this. Continue to flame on FB’s. God love’ya, but you will soon see.

I want this game to work too, GW2 has issues to solve and improve the game but obviously not the stats progressions to me.

“I think there’s more equality in grinding games. In those, unemployed people are the best of the best, the cream of the crop, the elite. They’ve got the right stuff. No jobs. Here, it’s down to skill, that’s hardly fair on the unskilled is it? At least in other games they could quit their jobs and move into a basement and still be the best.”

this is easily the stupidest thing ive seen so far in this forum

Stupid, but true. Games with gear progression are all about overcoming a lack of skill by spending more time playing. It’s all about outgearing content and outgearing players. Otherwise, it serves no purpose aside from dictating the order in which you have to do things, and the average number of times you have to do thing x before you can do thing y.

GW2 may be the game that is not about grind. However, if that is what the majority of its players want, why does almost no one on my server do the Malchor’s Leap Lyssa Event, instead choosing to do the easy events in Cursed Shore over and over? The Risen Priestess has been in position for almost two weeks now.

My hypothesis is that they are after rewards in the form of Karma, drops and gold, and that the Lyssa event is too long and difficult for not much return. Maybe my server is an anomaly. If so, please state which server(s) have control of the Lyssa shrine. I’d like to get the skill challenge done so I can complete the zone.

IndigoSundown.5419:

GW2 may be the game that is not about grind. However, if that is what the majority of its players want, why does almost no one on my server do the Malchor’s Leap Lyssa Event, instead choosing to do the easy events in Cursed Shore over and over? The Risen Priestess has been in position for almost two weeks now.

My hypothesis is that they are after rewards in the form of Karma, drops and gold, and that the Lyssa event is too long and difficult for not much return. Maybe my server is an anomaly. If so, please state which server(s) have control of the Lyssa shrine. I’d like to get the skill challenge done so I can complete the zone.

You’re confusing optional with mandatory. If you had to do lyssa to get the gear to do the easy events in cursed shore, that would be a problem.

helladoom.4317:

Jestunhi.7429:

Eridani.8317 – What do you want to do at 80?

You’re not asking me but i’ll answer:

At 80 i want PvE that’s simmilarly easily accessible as it is at lower levels.
Note that i’m not asking for easy PvE, in fact i think many of the events are to easy with a large group, imo scaling of events needs tweaking.

Well you’re in luck! With the downscaling system you’ll be few levels above any content in the game. There’s no need to limit yourself to level 80 content.

But i do not want be forced to move around a zone on foot because most waypoints are contested, while in addition i’m being at best slowed down (at worst killed) by large numbers of mobs – when my objective is to find ongoing events and join the local zerg-for-the-occasion.

This happens much less often in the lower level zones, so that’s simple enough.

I do not want to spend much time soloing while looking for the fun parts of the game.

The best way to acheive this is finding a guild of like minded people. I’m sure you’re not alone in wanting to be playing with other people for most of your time. The LFG system needs major work, but a social / grouping guild is always going to make it easier to get groups.

The ingame group finder – or what has to pass for that – is in practice not effective.

Absolutely, it could use major improvement.

Nor do i want to be forced to use map chat; that’s hopelessly primitive, equivalent to me having to call friends on the phone to ask them to join a server for a FPS game such as Quake – which back in those days was never an issue (and still isn’t) because one could/can find multiple populated servers any hour of the day or night.

You’re not required to. Many people disable map chat because it’s full of random chat. Especially if you are in a guild as you have a channel to chat in if you want to. Again, improvements to the LFG system will mean even less uses for /map.

It should not be so that in a massively multiplayer game it is often harder to find multplayer action than it is in just about any (not massively) multiplayer FPS or tactical shooter.

How easy it is to find people to group with depends who you are asking. If you are in a guild which suits your needs, and once the LFG system is improved, I don’t see this as being an issue.

Cezton.2415:

Replace the word grind with having to work for “anything”. Character progression with reward is the most important part of these games.

If you don’t understand this component to online games, you just don’t get it.

Actually from my perspective these games have not been about character progression untill World of Wacraft came out. Before that I played Dark Age of Camelot and I was extremely suprised when I found out each big content update made your gear ‘obsolete’, or not the best in game. With DAoC (pre-expension) you could just craft something akin to exotic armor in Guild Wars 2 and that was it, off to RvR you went without a worry in the world.

It is a generational distinction (I think) with people who started playing MMOs when WoW came out and are more focused on character progression, because no game does that better then WoW. For me it is a welcome step back into the past where I don’t feel like I have to play, or can’t take a break without getting behind. Saying that character progression is the most important part of ‘these games’ is looking at MMO’s like they are all World of Warcraft, but they’re not.

Stupid, but true. Games with gear progression are all about overcoming a lack of skill by spending more time playing. It’s all about outgearing content and outgearing players. Otherwise, it serves no purpose aside from dictating the order in which you have to do things, and the average number of times you have to do thing x before you can do thing y.

This.

People need to read this clearly and understand it. Break the spell.

Ebs.6280:

Cezton.2415:

Replace the word grind with having to work for “anything”. Character progression with reward is the most important part of these games.

If you don’t understand this component to online games, you just don’t get it.

Actually from my perspective these games have not been about character progression untill World of Wacraft came out. Before that I played Dark Age of Camelot and I was extremely suprised when I found out each big content update made your gear ‘obsolete’, or not the best in game. With DAoC (pre-expension) you could just craft something akin to exotic armor in Guild Wars 2 and that was it, off to RvR you went without a worry in the world.

It is a generational distinction (I think) with people who started playing MMOs when WoW came out and are more focused on character progression, because no game does that better then WoW. For me it is a welcome step back into the past where I don’t feel like I have to play, or can’t take a break without getting behind. Saying that character progression is the most important part of ‘these games’ is looking at MMO’s like they are all World of Warcraft, but they’re not.

Actually, you’re wrong with regards to my opinion.

My first online game choices were Phantasy Star Online and then Runescape. Following that I played WoW on and off for 5-6 years, can’t exactly remember how long now, and also dabbled in LOTRO, AoC, Warhammer, SWTOR and Rift. This is the first game since PSO that I’ve been really addicted to. Warcraft had me back in vanilla, but then the game got extremely easy, but forget Warcraft.

With this thread a lot of people are just assuming what I mean by grind.

I’ve never enjoyed Korean games where you have to grind FOREVER. I’ve never played Cabal of any of these grindy games. I’ve tried a dozen F2P MMOs and always hated them for this bland approach to grinding out enemies for the whisper distant items.

All I’m saying is that this game should have loot variety, real loot tables. I’m saying that it seems off to me that all I’m seeing from chests are greens, blues and mere crests.

I’m saying that making gold in this money, which everybody wants to do, be it 15g for their exotics, or hundreds for their legendary, requires you to run around Orr like a maniac avoiding the worst aggro in the game for the precious amount of ore that is given to us, beyond that one can do the same dungeon or fight the same enemies.

Gold isn’t my issue anymore. I have what I need, and I’ve given up on the premise of getting a legendary (which is too much of a grind, really, and a gamble with the way the precursor is set up with it’s insane momentum of inflation).

Having these item sets on display in LA, sharing the heavy armor with warriors as a guardian, or sharing the cloth as a caster, or the medium, etc, lacks variety when it comes to class specific armor. Cultural armor is 100g or more, a total grind if you ask me, and the only way to look or feel unique is to go ahead with that intense grind.

I’m not talking about adding a real “grind” to this game.

I’m talking about adding more variety and depth to already implemented features and corners of the game in the PvE instead of the same old that everyone else is doing.

Have you seen the events in Orr? It looks like the biggest grindy zerg fest on the go.

When I mentioned how a grind is necessary in this thread and how there’s too much equality I meant what I said, but some have twisted my words and have assumed that I’m asking for this game to be like WoW, which is not true at all.

GW2 shines in spots where WoW could not have satisfied me, and didn’t for years.

In other spots it lacks progression and depth badly, and I know I’m not the only one who agrees with this. Whether you’re a stay at home Mom who plays, the teen who can only play after school, the guy who can only play after work, or heck, the basement dweller who wants to play and grind ALL day. There should be an option to do so in some shape or form that doesn’t ruin the experience for everyone else.

I know that more can be done, and I will be patient, but I stand by the title.

Not sure if my post glitched the thread out or what.