Guild Wars 2

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Enough with the personal attacks.

After you.

Vayne.8563:

If you have something to add to the conversation by all means add it.

The numbers are meaningless. Your data is just as suspect as the “dead game” crowd.

I don’t care if it’s three data points. None of them are official data points. None of them are official ANet sources.

But let’s say that you’re officially right and the game is doing fine and your sources are some kind of supremely solid proof.

Congrats! You’ve changed…-absolutely nothing- about these forums or the game as a whole! You’ve affected nothing at all by presenting these numbers.

People that feel like the game is dying will still feel as such, and will most likely still say as such. And any new players that come to these forums likely won’t care about the numbers, since if they’re coming to the forums, they probably have some kind of problem with the game to begin with.

Said problem might even be that they feel like the game is dead. Or lack of mounts, or whatever.

Your data is, frankly, useless for two reasons. The first is that it’s an unofficial source that only includes people that actively use a specific type of program.

The second reason is that you’re presenting this data in order to combat remarks that are, on a whole, most likely subjective. And due to their subjective nature, you presenting this data isn’t likely to change any minds because you can scream about how the game is fine til you’re blue in the face (and boy have you)…

But those numbers are going to be 100% meaningless to the person who has lost their entire guild three or more times from members leaving (or whatever example you please).

Posting these numbers on the forums doesn’t help the game one bit. It doesn’t make the game -feel- more alive. It doesn’t answer burning questions about SAB/mounts/traits/moogles/tiddlywinks. It doesn’t help the communication problems ANet has been having. And it fails to provide any kind of useful or meaningful feedback to ANet about their product and what they could or could not do to make it even more of a fun experience for newbies and vets alike. It certainly doesn’t bring the GW2 community closer together.

Vayne.8563:

If you can’t do anything but talk about me, you should probably not be posting.

You should never be posting. Things were better without you, quite frankly.

Again I’m not trying to change the mind of people who have their mind made up. I’m providing information to people who haven’t, of which I assume there are plenty. You saying something is worthless is completely your opinion. It’s not constructive or helpful.

And I don’t attack you. I respond to your attacks. I’m sure others can see the difference.

I haven’t looked in on this thread since halfway down page 1 so I thought I’d see how its going since the topic is sort of interesting. Vayne vs the zerg again! Just like old times except the zerg talent has certainly dropped away.

This game is still plugging away no matter what people on the forum say. Of course, that’s just based on my own in-game experience and I’ve seen what people think about that sort of evidence.

Vayne.8563:

I’m providing information to people who haven’t

And as I noted, the provided information is still suspect.

The only decent piece of information you have is the layoff thing, and honestly, that doesn’t even necessarily point to anything depending on where in NCSOFT the layoffs occurred, even if ANet escaped unscathed, because it depends on -why- the layoffs occurred.

Layoffs, horrible as they are, don’t always point to a company doing worse. Backwards as that may seem.

Vayne.8563:

You saying something is worthless is completely your opinion. It’s not constructive or helpful.

This whole thread is neither constructive nor helpful, as I already explained.

That aside, you asked me to talk about the topic. So I did. I’m sorry that you don’t like what I have to say about your presented data.

Vayne.8563:

And I don’t attack you. I respond to your attacks. I’m sure others can see the difference.

I simply call it as I see it. I find it hilarious that you would try and call me disingenuous considering your own posting history. I called you a contrarian because you basically admitted to it.

If you feel they are bad enough to call attacks, then by all means, report my posts.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’m providing information to people who haven’t

And as I noted, the provided information is still suspect.

The only decent piece of information you have is the layoff thing, and honestly, that doesn’t even necessarily point to anything depending on where in NCSOFT the layoffs occurred, even if ANet escaped unscathed, because it depends on -why- the layoffs occurred.

Layoffs, horrible as they are, don’t always point to a company doing worse. Backwards as that may seem.

Vayne.8563:

You saying something is worthless is completely your opinion. It’s not constructive or helpful.

This whole thread is neither constructive nor helpful, as I already explained.

That aside, you asked me to talk about the topic. So I did. I’m sorry that you don’t like what I have to say about your presented data.

Vayne.8563:

And I don’t attack you. I respond to your attacks. I’m sure others can see the difference.

I simply call it as I see it. I find it hilarious that you would try and call me disingenuous considering your own posting history. I called you a contrarian because you basically admitted to it.

If you feel they are bad enough to call attacks, then by all means, report my posts.

Ignoring what I’m saying in favor of your own conclusions about me, implies you think you know me better than I know myself. I can say with some confidence you don’t. And judging anyone by a single line of their text is completely meaningless.

People can make up their own mind whether or not the things I’ve said have value. You don’t believe they have value and that’s your belief. It’s not fact. They may well have value. People will decide.

I won’t be answering your posts anymore, feel free to have the last word.

@Gene: I found this thread to be quite eye-opening and helpful. So, it indeed holds value. Despite what you may think, you don’t speak for everyone there, pal. Opinions are just that, opinions. You are entitled to yours, but using an opinion against data is just silly.

Vayne.8563:

I won’t be answering your posts anymore, feel free to have the last word.

Works for me. My last word will be that your data is as suspect as the doomsayers, and that you jamming your fingers in your ears and denying that isn’t going to change anything.

Paradox.1380:

@Gene: I found this thread to be quite eye-opening and helpful.

Okay. But how does the data presented actually help you? How does it help the person who’s lost their original guild? How does it help the person that is just plain unlucky and can’t seem to find a megaserver that’s rockin’ the massive peeps? (I recall a thread or two about continuously empty Mad Labyrinths, for instance, and have even experienced a few myself this halloween).

Paradox.1380:

You are entitled to yours, but using an opinion against data is just silly.

Opinions shape the world regardless of data. One need only look at history, and…forgive how weird this will sound, the history -of- history to see that.

As I said before: It’s all well and good that game is doing fine, that it apparently isn’t empty according to statistics.

But those statistics are only worthwhile if that non-emptiness can actually reach a player and make them feel, for lack of a better term, good about the future of the game. And I don’t mean reach them with data and spreadsheets and numbers.

(Also I’m not your pal, friend.)

Hi everyone,

since this thread has derailed from its original topic and turned into an inflammatory discussion, we’ll now close it.

Thank you for your understanding.