Guild Wars 2

There are people in this game who have and im quoting here “more gold than i can store in a single account” who on a daily basis purchase hundreds of thousands of items in order to resell them at a higher price, this creates inflation and benefits no one but the super rich, what im suggesting is a limit to the amount of items that can be purchased in a day wich will reset every 24 hours, because lets face it if this keeps going on our entire economy will collapse.

I just want to point out that it does not, in fact, create inflation. Inflation means the deterioration of the worth of a currency, what they are doing is not creating gold, it’s taking other peoples already existing gold through selling items.

But it isn’t inflation, it’s capitalism.

You dont like free market, son?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I just want to point out that it does not, in fact, create inflation. Inflation means the deterioration of the worth of a currency, what they are doing is not creating gold, it’s taking other peoples already existing gold through selling items.

But it isn’t inflation, it’s capitalism.

It is creating inflation, because it is inflating the prices.

Inflation is a persistent increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.

The money emission comes after this. It is usually done by the central banks.
In the case of gw2 the increased prices force people to convert more gems in gold, and indeed it creates a larger gold pool in the game.

Also, okay, yeah maybe I have the definition wrong.

Well, that’s if people actually buy gold with real money through the gem store. I know people do that, and have done that, but that’s not really the fault of the people selling stuff to make the profit. That’s the fault of the people (including me) who want to use money on in game items. The inflation of the prices on these items is ultimately not caused by the people selling, but the people buying.

Yeah, sorry, the simple use of a market is not abuse. Making gold through the TP is not a problem. Someone needs an economics class.

Maliel.8362:

There are people in this game who have and im quoting here “more gold than i can store in a single account” who on a daily basis purchase hundreds of thousands of items in order to resell them at a higher price, this creates inflation and benefits no one but the super rich, what im suggesting is a limit to the amount of items that can be purchased in a day wich will reset every 24 hours, because lets face it if this keeps going on our entire economy will collapse.

Sounds like the real thing. Not saying that’s necessarily good. But in game it doesn’t really matter if things are a mess. Infinite resources and no nature to kitten up after all.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Well, that’s if people actually buy gold with real money through the gem store. I know people do that, and have done that, but that’s not really the fault of the people selling stuff to make the profit. That’s the fault of the people (including me) who want to use money on in game items. The inflation of the prices on these items is ultimately not caused by the people selling, but the people buying.

You are wrong. There are many things that can cause inflation, and one of them is the pricing of the goods. In this case the speculants on the BTC. Also you cant tell people to just stop buying. Also what is Monopoly?

Raine.1394:

Yeah, sorry, the simple use of a market is not abuse. Making gold through the TP is not a problem. Someone needs an economics class.

Market manipulation on the scales I’ve seen in some youtube videos are criminal irl though for the very reason the OP is pointing out… Markets like any low level greatsword selling for more than 1 gold each just because it’s stats are by far the best (as in overpowered compared to others for what you are reasonably expected to perform) for any kind of level, and not even for a skin…daggers, 1 handed swords and staves too in many cases.. It is a heartbreaking problem for anyone not willing to drop that kind of money (or more to make their own) into a low level character.

That said, as the quote suggests, the things they have done so far (with those youtube videos of 12+ accounts being used on the trade post off a single computer at once being a probably exception) is within the rules, and anyone leveling up or looking for new gear has no recourse against it

Funset.7893:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Well, that’s if people actually buy gold with real money through the gem store. I know people do that, and have done that, but that’s not really the fault of the people selling stuff to make the profit. That’s the fault of the people (including me) who want to use money on in game items. The inflation of the prices on these items is ultimately not caused by the people selling, but the people buying.

You are wrong. There are many things that can cause inflation, and one of them is the pricing of the goods. In this case the speculants on the BTC. Also you cant tell people to just stop buying. Also what os monopoly?

If the items didn’t sell at the prices that are “too high” or not worth it, why would anyone buy them?

I don’t know. I just don’t see how people playing the market are doing anything wrong. They keep taking my money, so I’ll keep shelling it out to get the stuff I want. If you want to complain about the prices, fine, but saying that the people playing it should be punished is just… Well, silly.

(In other words don’t hate the player hate the game)

Lilith Ajit.6173:

If the items didn’t sell at the prices that are “too high” or not worth it, why would anyone buy them?

I don’t know. I just don’t see how people playing the market are doing anything wrong. They keep taking my money, so I’ll keep shelling it out to get the stuff I want. If you want to complain about the prices, fine, but saying that the people playing it should be punished is just… Well, silly.

I am not the OP, and I am totally not complaining here o.O

Maliel.8362:

There are people in this game who have and im quoting here “more gold than i can store in a single account” who on a daily basis purchase hundreds of thousands of items in order to resell them at a higher price, this creates inflation and benefits no one but the super rich, what im suggesting is a limit to the amount of items that can be purchased in a day wich will reset every 24 hours, because lets face it if this keeps going on our entire economy will collapse.

First off, inflation is a pretty broad term. You are talking about price inflation, which is a pretty benign type of inflation. It can be caused by demand, fake or real.

Monetary inflation is the one every needs to be concerned about. Flipping doesn’t cause monetary inflation. In fact, it does the opposite – it removes gold from the economy.

If we had no flippers in the economy, the number of transactions would be pretty low. Each transaction removes gold from the economy. By having flippers in the economy, transactions would be higher than normal, so more gold is removed.

Flippers aren’t bad people, nor are they greedy and nor should you care what they do.

Flippers take profits that players forgo by choosing to sell to buy orders than sell orders. It’s not their fault that other players want immediate gratification (gold).

Funset.7893:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

If the items didn’t sell at the prices that are “too high” or not worth it, why would anyone buy them?

I don’t know. I just don’t see how people playing the market are doing anything wrong. They keep taking my money, so I’ll keep shelling it out to get the stuff I want. If you want to complain about the prices, fine, but saying that the people playing it should be punished is just… Well, silly.

I am not the OP, and I am totally not complaining here o.O

Meh, what is monopoly, anyway?

Funset.7893:

You dont like free market, son?

I have no idea who the guy in that picture is.

Maliel.8362:

I have no idea who that is.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Meh, what is monopoly, anyway?

Yeah, I am done here, thank you

Funset.7893:

Maliel.8362:

I have no idea who that is.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Meh, what is monopoly, anyway?

Yeah, I am done here, thank you

For the record, my post was facetious, and I do know who that is. Lol

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

ronpierce.2760:

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

If they jack prices up 10 fold and the market is still willing to pay for it, then that’s not a problem. They’re just helping the market for that item reach equilibrium.

Vol.7601:

ronpierce.2760:

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

If they jack prices up 10 fold and the market is still willing to pay for it, then that’s not a problem. They’re just helping the market for that item reach equilibrium.

It’s a problem because these are basic mats for the game, but the game becomes an economy simulator. You’re better off playing the economic game because you can’t realistically PLAY the real game to earn these things. Yes, this is a problem…

Maliel.8362:

There are people in this game who have and im quoting here “more gold than i can store in a single account” who on a daily basis purchase hundreds of thousands of items in order to resell them at a higher price, this creates inflation and benefits no one but the super rich, what im suggesting is a limit to the amount of items that can be purchased in a day wich will reset every 24 hours, because lets face it if this keeps going on our entire economy will collapse.

Just wondering, are you upset that a man like Steve Jobs can create a billion dollar company, selling high quality products with an equally high price markup? I ask this because people like him help the economy, not collapse it.

TP players are the same thing. Players who farm items to sell are like our employees. We pay them for the item farmed, and in turn resell for a profit to another player who wants the item.

Free markets are beautiful.

ronpierce.2760:

Vol.7601:

ronpierce.2760:

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

If they jack prices up 10 fold and the market is still willing to pay for it, then that’s not a problem. They’re just helping the market for that item reach equilibrium.

It’s a problem because these are basic mats for the game, but the game becomes an economy simulator. You’re better off playing the economic game because you can’t realistically PLAY the real game to earn these things. Yes, this is a problem…

Well you are obviously playing the game wrong if you can’t make any financial progress in GW2. I’m not even a flipper and I have more than enough wealth.

The flippers, meh, who cares. Those people (bots) putting in the millions of buy orders @1 c deserve a ban hammer. At a minimum, they chew up resources and slow down the tp for legitimate users.

Example (click back to monthly view) clipper focus skin
goes from 374 orders to 2.8 million?!?

Vol.7601:

ronpierce.2760:

Vol.7601:

ronpierce.2760:

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

If they jack prices up 10 fold and the market is still willing to pay for it, then that’s not a problem. They’re just helping the market for that item reach equilibrium.

It’s a problem because these are basic mats for the game, but the game becomes an economy simulator. You’re better off playing the economic game because you can’t realistically PLAY the real game to earn these things. Yes, this is a problem…

Well you are obviously playing the game wrong if you can’t make any financial progress in GW2. I’m not even a flipper and I have more than enough wealth.

You’re being bitten by real-world influences now, your argument will fall on deaf ears as a result. You gave it a fantastic try in the past few posts though, +1

Maliel.8362:

There are people in this game who have and im quoting here “more gold than i can store in a single account” who on a daily basis purchase hundreds of thousands of items in order to resell them at a higher price, this creates inflation and benefits no one but the super rich, what im suggesting is a limit to the amount of items that can be purchased in a day wich will reset every 24 hours, because lets face it if this keeps going on our entire economy will collapse.

You would be limiting the major “market makers” (or close to it in this game), meaning we’d all eventually buy almost nothing unless we made a brand new character (and even then, at a reduced rate over time.

ronpierce.2760:

Vol.7601:

ronpierce.2760:

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

If they jack prices up 10 fold and the market is still willing to pay for it, then that’s not a problem. They’re just helping the market for that item reach equilibrium.

It’s a problem because these are basic mats for the game, but the game becomes an economy simulator. You’re better off playing the economic game because you can’t realistically PLAY the real game to earn these things. Yes, this is a problem…

So we’re not arguing in totally abstract terms – which mats and how many do you need?

With a few exceptions (the giant eye thread comes to mind), there are sources of materials all over the place… just sometimes indirect.

Find out what’s valuable and plentiful, obtain those, make (or take advantage of) a market for those, use resultant profit to buy what you need.

Also exchanging bought gems for gold doesn’t add gold to the game. The gold the exchange is giving out originally came from players who were buying gems. On top of that the exchange sinks 15%, twice, going in and coming out.

Excessive 1c demand on items without a vendor price is the TP equivalent of a blanket advertising campaign since all it does is cause the demand number to be high enough to show up in various in and out game resources. But just some viral ad campaign, a tiny amount of research will reveal the truth behind the so called demand.

For items that I sell or buy on a daily basis, I don’t see it. I see what I expect to see. High supply and low demand means lower prices. Low supply and realistic high demand means higher prices. If low sell and high bid is less than 15%, then all profit had been squeezed out of that market.

Spend the 30 seconds or less to check out the range of bids and sells prices and see if everything looks normal. You will save coin by being better informed.

ronpierce.2760:

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

Please give me an example of something you cannot farm efficiently. Giant eyes? Okay, fair. Iron ore? Silk? Linen? Wool? Platinum? Soft wood? Tons of places to farm these either from nodes or mob drops. The TP provides convenience that you pay for. Flippers don’t create people who don’t want to grind for their mats, the players are responsible for that one.

I grow tired of people blaming speculation for what they themselves are willing to pay. I cannot make you buy something at a set price, that’s your decision. If you claim you cannot be competitive without the TP I will also state that that’s hogwash. There’s nothing in the game you cannot grind out, nothing EXCEPT gem store items and you can convert your gold if you want to so even that is possible through grinding.

You don’t have the time? You don’t want to grind? You pay the going rate or place custom offers at the price you are willing to pay. Stop blaming people who take the time to grind or those that spend a ton of time calculating what will provide profit for them. Even flippers sink gold by relisting the item they bought at a higher price and then pay 5% on a larger amount of gold.

If people have more gold than fits in one account, which I didn’t know was a problem until this post, then so be it, why begrudge someone’s good fortune?

In creating their pile of wealth, what have they taken from you? Can you quantify it or is it pure hyperbole or the traditional have and have not sentiment?

Cassocaster.4576:

ronpierce.2760:

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

Please give me an example of something you cannot farm efficiently. Giant eyes? Okay, fair. Iron ore? Silk? Linen? Wool? Platinum? Soft wood? Tons of places to farm these either from nodes or mob drops. The TP provides convenience that you pay for. Flippers don’t create people who don’t want to grind for their mats, the players are responsible for that one.

I grow tired of people blaming speculation for what they themselves are willing to pay. I cannot make you buy something at a set price, that’s your decision. If you claim you cannot be competitive without the TP I will also state that that’s hogwash. There’s nothing in the game you cannot grind out, nothing EXCEPT gem store items and you can convert your gold if you want to so even that is possible through grinding.

You don’t have the time? You don’t want to grind? You pay the going rate or place custom offers at the price you are willing to pay. Stop blaming people who take the time to grind or those that spend a ton of time calculating what will provide profit for them. Even flippers sink gold by relisting the item they bought at a higher price and then pay 5% on a larger amount of gold.

If people have more gold than fits in one account, which I didn’t know was a problem until this post, then so be it, why begrudge someone’s good fortune?

In creating their pile of wealth, what have they taken from you? Can you quantify it or is it pure hyperbole or the traditional have and have not sentiment?

I suspect there’s that resurgent twinge of “well, they’re wealthy, so they musta taken something from me” + “there’s a finite amount of wealth” seeping in somewhere.

Not all flippers are bots, some just play tp several hours a day. Know what they are doing. Use resources outside of the game to gather information. Apply the information gathered. As was mentioned, it is not flippers fault so many want their gold now and can’t handle to wait a bit. imo, if anything its those who are impatience that creates the problem so many dislike. Not that I see it as a problem.

If I can take advantage of someone’s impatience or lack of understand because of laziness to do a little research, and as long as it acceptable by anet. I certainly will and do.

ronpierce.2760:

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

If you can’t farm the mats, where are the mats on the trading post coming from? If the prices for the mats are rising, then it becomes profitable to spend your time farming mats and selling whatever you don’t need to buy what you do need.

What is the problem here? MMOs are designed around long-term activities, and people get all kitten when they don’t get everything they want instantly and with no effort. Too bad.

If I look at an item, say the lightning catcher skin, and I think that people would be willing to pay 200g for it, but it’s selling at 50g, how is it abuse to make that gamble? (speculators)

Other items people will notice has a large difference between buy (100g) and sell (150g), so they place some buy orders. They end up buying it for 101g and sell at 149g, which just narrows the difference between buy/sell. (flippers)

Some jerks should be punished; those that place 2 million buy orders for wind catcher skins to get it advertised on the front page. These guys are not manipulating the market, however. They are manipulating people. The same effect could be made by shouting in every map chat about these awesome back pieces. (bad form of manipulation)

But there are also a good form of manipulators, which are really just extreme speculators. They will look at an item (say, silver doubloon), notice there is very little supply and buy everything up to what they think it should be worth. These guys are just noticing the item is underpriced, then gambling on what they think is a fair price considering the supply and demand. After they buy everything, the price will settle to a new price, which they have no control over. They may of called it, they may of made a bad investment. All they did was throw everything into the air and see how it fell, expecting it to fall at a higher price – because the item was undervalued before.

Only one of these is bad. please don’t group the others in with them.

Vol.7601:

ronpierce.2760:

Vol.7601:

ronpierce.2760:

It IS a problem, actually, because they CAN do this not due to “laws of economics” but because you can’t farm anything in this game realistically, so we’re forced to buy it. Jacking up the prices 10-fold is still better than trying to farm most mats.

If they jack prices up 10 fold and the market is still willing to pay for it, then that’s not a problem. They’re just helping the market for that item reach equilibrium.

It’s a problem because these are basic mats for the game, but the game becomes an economy simulator. You’re better off playing the economic game because you can’t realistically PLAY the real game to earn these things. Yes, this is a problem…

Well you are obviously playing the game wrong if you can’t make any financial progress in GW2. I’m not even a flipper and I have more than enough wealth.

It isn’t about wealth. It’s that the economy runs this game. Gold IS what you farm, when you should be farming and watching progress of your ascended items/legendaries by playing, not based on how much gold you’ve acquired or how well you can play the trade post.

http://dulfy.net/2013/12/12/gw2-ascended-armor-crafting-guide/#a0
Let me explain why I say you can’t farm.
Beyond the grind for the auto-Soulbound items you need 1000 wool scraps, 500 cotton scraps, 1000 linen scraps, 7500 silk scraps, 70 gossamer scraps, 960 iron ore, 480 iron ore, 650 platinum ore, 1600 mithril ore, 71 globs of ectoplasm, 30 glob of dark matter, 120 pile of Crystalline dust. These aren’t realistic numbers to go out and “farm” for just a set of armor, especially given drop rates. Hence why the market has the upper hand. It’s more efficient to buy these items than to farm them by playing the game itself. The time to farm gold and buy these things rather than play the game and earn them directly is fractional. This is turning the game from a game… into an economic simulator of sorts. It’s not fun for people who want to play the game and unlock things at a reasonable rate all because the game’s economy is so important to the handful of rich people who abuse it. Of course those people don’t want things to change.

Also whoever said how does it get there if it isn’t farmable… Don’t be stupid. This is a game where you should be able to embark on your own journey and get results. These materials build up on the TP because there are MANY people who don’t care about the vertical grind in the game so they just dump their extra stuff on the trader. Say you have 1 person who cares about having full ascended armor to every say 500 who either doesn’t care, is just casual, or gave up because of how ridiculous it is, it’s not a big “mystery” as to how these items end up being plentiful on the trader. It’s a limited crowd who wants them versus the many who just simply doesn’t bother with the grind and sells off extra materials. Additionally, there are those who have FINISHED what they wanted, thus they sell any left overs. This isn’t a hard concept. Just because there are quite a bit on the TP doesn’t mean it’s farmable for the general public as a single unit.

All I’m saying is the trader is a playground for people who enjoy taking advantage of the economic boost they can get by playing the trader KNOWING people really don’t have a better alternative. And it’s a money grab for ANet knowing that drop rates and material lists are unrealistic enough that people will frequently buy gems, convert them to gold to buy what they need.

Let me remind you this is also supposed to be a “casual” game without vertical progression. A casual game means a casual player can play for a little bit every now and then and not have to feel left behind. And at this point it’s hard to call it a casual game, more like a casual gold-grind to buy materials for unrealistic recipes from greedy people jacking up prices.

I highly doubt a flipper would care if an item is farmable or not. That’s more in tune with speculators such as I, but flippers care more the price spread.

I do not believe that there are many players out there who are willing to farm each and every mat component for an ascended piece or any other end-game item. The lack of numbers for these type of people are not worth the drastic implications on the economy if we were to have a game designed around them.

Not to mention, it is a poor move gameplay-wise to make all items farmable. It defeats the purpose of end-game gear if you can easily get it in a day through casual play. If all components were easy to farm for a casual player, what kind of market do you think we will end up with? You’d have linen, silk, ectos – all components in the copper range.

Lastly, I do not recall this game being advertised as a casual game. It’s a game suitable for everyone – hardcore and casual. Why do you think they designed difficult encounters like Liadri, Teq and Wurm? For casual players who refuse to retrait/reskill or learn how to dodge? No, for the hardcore players who have been largely ignored for the majority of the game.

Instead of casual players calling for everything to be handed to them, maybe they should change their expectations and not expect to get ascended gear in a day or legendary weapons in a week.

Do not blashpheme against the Free Market™. The Free Market™ can do no wrong. The Free Market™ is salvation!

This game was advertised as a VERTICAL progression game, meaning with minimal effort each player should be able to play the game COMPETITIVELY, meaning the grind for Ascended/(Or Legendary, though since we have Ascended weapons, Legendary isn’t necessary) is against the game’s initial advertisement. I’m fine with unrealistic grinds for cosmetics, but not extremely long grinds to have equal gear-standards than people who can play more often than me. That’s what brought me into this game in the first place. It was meant to be a competitive game, and you can’t have competitive when time available is on of your biggest assets. It’s for this reason that most good games (IE WoW) has a time-gate on gear per week, such as dungeon lock outs, and Honor points per week, its so that people with loads of time on their hands don’t make the game neigh unplayable for others.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/RNG-and-Grind-in-GW2-is-not-that-bad/page/6#post3604313

And if you want to read the responses to someone who said the grind in this game is fine, just go ahead and click here. Enjoy yourselves.

Notice the lack of agreement (including 1s) with the OP, and the *1 from me first response and the several that follow. There are a minority that have made it big and obviously don’t want their grasp of the market to change. That’s called greed. But it’s not a good state for the game.

ronpierce.2760:

Let me remind you this is also supposed to be a “casual” game without vertical progression. A casual game means a casual player can play for a little bit every now and then and not have to feel left behind. And at this point it’s hard to call it a casual game, more like a casual gold-grind to buy materials for unrealistic recipes from greedy people jacking up prices.

You do realize you contradict yourself in this paragraph, right? If the game is “casual” to you then why do you feel the need to get ascended armor? You are playing both sides of your own coin.

I have 2260 hours in 350 days, I play a LOT and I am not pursuing ascended armor. Why? Because of what you outlined, the return for the effort is not worth my time, not for less than 5% gain over exotic. Ascended weapons are a completely different animal but that’s not your discussion point.

The game is what you make it, you can have it be as casual as you want it but don’t complain that others chase the ascended and that the TP is to blame for you not getting what you want. I find my drop rates to be acceptable and I farm entire zones with multiple toons, I have a ton of mats that I have collected over a period of time. Why do you think ANet time gated the ascended mats? To give players a chance to collect the materials and make the item.

Your anger, at this point, is palpable in what you write as a response and this makes it a personal issue and not one that has anything to do with the game. I can see you are frustrated with what you perceive to be a problem but realize that the issue stems not from the TP but from something called entitlement.

Vol.7601:

Instead of casual players calling for everything to be handed to them, maybe they should change their expectations and not expect to get ascended gear in a day or legendary weapons in a week.

I agree with your post in toto, but as a self-identified casual player, I wish you wouldn’t lump me in with the folks that think ascended gear shouldn’t require some time and focus to get

It seems to me that the players that got ascended gear quickly did a lot of planning and investing ahead of time. You definitely get a discount if you’re ahead of the demand curve and if you spend some time figuring out what makes the most sense to farm on your own and what makes sense to buy.

I don’t really understand the “these things I want are too expensive” threads. If everything that players want is dirt cheap, how will the players actually generating the supply make any money? Maybe it’s just too much focus on gold drops per hour instead of selling things you find.

I don’t always farm, but when I do, I check the prices on the TP first.

Casual (at least to me) means not spending my life to play at the top level of play. Some people have busy lives and don’t want to chase grinds forever to do the most fun stuff (best gear equal grounds pvp, wvw, some pve tossed in there). Casual doesn’t mean “I want to play poorly”, it means I don’t want to live in the game more than real life.

ronpierce.2760:

Casual (at least to me) means not spending my life to play at the top level of play. Some people have busy lives and don’t want to chase grinds forever to do the most fun stuff (best gear equal grounds pvp, wvw, some pve tossed in there). Casual doesn’t mean “I want to play poorly”, it means I don’t want to live in the game more than real life.

A game where a casual player can get to the “top level of play” is not going to have any longevity. The hard core players will run out of stuff to do in two weeks, the casual players will get it all done in a couple months, and it will be impossible for any development team to generate content faster than it is consumed.

May 15th, 2012 Diablo III was released – on June 19th, 2012 the ultimate feat – killing the final boss on Inferno difficulty with a hardcore character – was done. There is no way that those types of players would be engaged by a “top level of play” that a casual player like myself could achieve.

You can be casual in GW2 and see everything there is to see, unlike other games where if you don’t join a raiding guild you’re SOL. You can do “top level” sPvP and be casual, unlike a lot of other games that bring PvE gear into PvP. You just can’t have all of the BiS gear in a reasonable amount of time, and you may never own a legendary. Good thing there is no content gated behind owning those items.

Casual, in those scanarios mean… bad players. A “casual” can’t do inferno in Diablo, not because of lack of time, it’s too hard. I’m fine with HARD content, just not long drawn out grinds. Yes, people with lives who are GOOD players, should be able to do the top level play.

It is a free market and A-net is aware of the issues of items being sold on the market. A-net has economist to help them with that. Last year silk, greens, blues and other items were selling below vendor value. A-net first tried to fix it with the bazaar but that did not work. Then A-net fixed it with the addition of luck and ascended armor. Now silk is valuable and green/blue can be sold on TP for something.

Without flippers the supply of most of the high-end items precursors to runes would greatly decrease. Including the supply of cloth/leather. How do you get cloth/leather? From salvage and bags. Who puts massive supplies of cloth/leather on the market flippers do. Limiting the amount of transaction anyone is capable of doing on TP would just increase prices on everything.

Right now it seems that people are complaining about not being able to buy the best looking skins or get ascended gear. Ascended rings are easy enough to get from fractals. Ascended weapons are the only major improve to gear and that takes 2 weeks to get the time gated mats for. Ascended armor does not improve survivablity to be worthwhile for most players, so it is like a cosmetic item that cost 600-800g to get 500 crafting and get 6 pieces.

What do you need ascended gear for? Other than high lvl fractals nothing in the game is difficult enough to require that tier of gear. The lack of hard content is one of the issues with this game. The hard content so far has been Lydia, New Teq, Triple worm and high lvl fractals. Lydia was the only one that you did not need a organized raid for.

ronpierce.2760:

Casual, in those scanarios mean… bad players. A “casual” can’t do inferno in Diablo, not because of lack of time, it’s too hard. I’m fine with HARD content, just not long drawn out grinds. Yes, people with lives who are GOOD players, should be able to do the top level play.

This was before the difficulty nerf, so it had nothing to do with being skilled and everything to do with grinding out the proper gear, which comes down to how much time do you have to play to either get the drops you need or enough gold to buy them. The hardcore AH wasn’t tied to the RMAH, so you couldn’t just throw cash at the problem. You had to be a good player and have tons of time and energy to do it in that timeframe.

But let’s not get bogged down in details. What is the “top level of play” that you can’t do in GW2 even though you’re a good player because you don’t have enough time? I haven’t run into anything yet that I wasn’t able to do and I’m extremely casual. I’ve finished my personal story (including Arah), done some fractals, done some dungeons, done some WvW, participated in some of the temporary content, done world bosses – what exactly am I missing out on?

Pandemoniac.4739:

ronpierce.2760:

Casual, in those scanarios mean… bad players. A “casual” can’t do inferno in Diablo, not because of lack of time, it’s too hard. I’m fine with HARD content, just not long drawn out grinds. Yes, people with lives who are GOOD players, should be able to do the top level play.

This was before the difficulty nerf, so it had nothing to do with being skilled and everything to do with grinding out the proper gear, which comes down to how much time do you have to play to either get the drops you need or enough gold to buy them. The hardcore AH wasn’t tied to the RMAH, so you couldn’t just throw cash at the problem. You had to be a good player and have tons of time and energy to do it in that timeframe.

But let’s not get bogged down in details. What is the “top level of play” that you can’t do in GW2 even though you’re a good player because you don’t have enough time? I haven’t run into anything yet that I wasn’t able to do and I’m extremely casual. I’ve finished my personal story (including Arah), done some fractals, done some dungeons, done some WvW, participated in some of the temporary content, done world bosses – what exactly am I missing out on?

It’s not PVE, I want to not be out-geared in WvW due to ridiculous grinds. ANet advertised the game as a non-grindy vertical progression game, and that’s what I expected going in. I commended GW2 for making on the first truly fair PvP MMOs. And they ruined that.

ronpierce.2760:

It’s not PVE, I want to not be out-geared in WvW due to ridiculous grinds. ANet advertised the game as a non-grindy vertical progression game, and that’s what I expected going in. I commended GW2 for making on the first truly fair PvP MMOs. And they ruined that.

sPvP is where you go head to head. WvW is supposed to be more tactical (not saying it is on every server, but it’s supposed to be).

Are you really saying that as a level 80 in exotic gear which anyone can afford you’re getting roflstomped by players in ascended gear and it has nothing to do with your skill level?

Pandemoniac.4739:

ronpierce.2760:

It’s not PVE, I want to not be out-geared in WvW due to ridiculous grinds. ANet advertised the game as a non-grindy vertical progression game, and that’s what I expected going in. I commended GW2 for making on the first truly fair PvP MMOs. And they ruined that.

sPvP is where you go head to head. WvW is supposed to be more tactical (not saying it is on every server, but it’s supposed to be).

Are you really saying that as a level 80 in exotic gear which anyone can afford you’re getting roflstomped by players in ascended gear and it has nothing to do with your skill level?

Two evenly matched characters, one in exos, the other in ascended, the ascended wins. But the odds of fighting against a player the same skill are slim.

I’m not getting stomped by kitten. However I did pay for a game based on being able to play casually (as in not 24/7, not casual as in a baddie) and be able to fight in all parts of the game on an equal foot in a non-grindy environment with VERTICAL progression. These were selling points of the entire kitten game, the main reason GW2 got hype in the first place… What’s so hard about this to understand? It’s not that I’m getting wrecked, I can assure you, I’m not. But I didn’t buy this game to try to outgear others nor be outgeared by mouthbreathers who spend too much time on the game…

Ulion.5476:

Without flippers the supply of most of the high-end items precursors to runes would greatly decrease. Including the supply of cloth/leather. How do you get cloth/leather? From salvage and bags. Who puts massive supplies of cloth/leather on the market flippers do. Limiting the amount of transaction anyone is capable of doing on TP would just increase prices on everything.

Sorry but I call bullkitten on that one. Flippers add nothing at all to the TP, THEY ARE FARMERS, buy low sell high. The supply of precursors would be unaffected as would anything else.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ulion.5476:

Without flippers the supply of most of the high-end items precursors to runes would greatly decrease. Including the supply of cloth/leather. How do you get cloth/leather? From salvage and bags. Who puts massive supplies of cloth/leather on the market flippers do. Limiting the amount of transaction anyone is capable of doing on TP would just increase prices on everything.

Sorry but I call bullkitten on that one. Flippers add nothing at all to the TP, THEY ARE NOT FARMERS, they buy low sell high, that’s it. The supply of precursors would be unaffected as would anything else.

> this creates inflation and benefits no one but the super rich

Just to make it clear: Inflation in no way benefits the super rich, or the rich, or the moderately wealthy.

Inflation only benefits those who get item drops, and the ability to get item drops is uniform across the playerbase. And because of the relative wealth of players, the benefit of inflation primarily goes to the ‘poor’.

It really frustrates me when I see people decrying deflation as if they’re a ‘man of the people’ as it’s either disingenuous manipulation of popularism, or proud ignorance.

Any cursory thought on the actual mechanics would reveal this. Someone is farming, they get drops, they try to sell them on the trading post. Inflation is a measure of how much they can get for their drops.

If poorer players were forced to buy things, as they are in reality by biological imperatives, then you’d have a point. But in a virtual world ALL goods are ‘wants’- not ‘needs’.

As it is you’re actually arguing for the poorest players to be disadvantaged so the lazy top 30-60% are able to buy out materials on the cheap without having to work for any of it.