Guild Wars 2

Snow.2048:

I like trait hunting, but its current implementation is not good.

I was new with my thief – it was not so fun to level up it, like my previous ele and warrior.

vpchelko.4261:

Snow.2048:

Just my experience, but most new players I’ve played with don’t even know what traits are by the time the hit 80, an most haven’t unlocked more than 1 or 2. From my point of view it seems like you’re just delaying all the things that they need to know about character builds until 80, making the whole process a long drawn out tutorial without a skip button (they can’t afford traits).

But I do like the idea, its just so poorly implemented. Full map completions for low tier traits is ridiculous for example. It should build up instead of being so random imo

Trait unlock is not random – this is big quest http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide

A big tedious quest after you have done it once.

And for those who think traits don’t matter, just refund them all, then go out and see how well you do.

Some of the arguments here in favor of the current trait system are mind boggling. It imparts a sense of progression? It is busywork preventing you from actually learning how to play your character fully. It takes away a system that was handed out for less than 3g for almost 2 full years and says that each character you make must now complete 65 unrelated, specific, and tedious tasks or pay 43g and 360 skill points to allow the same level of access.

The announcement for it focused on the fact that you no longer have to buy the tier unlocks- now you can just dive right in and start playing with the system immediately once you reach the appropriate level.

This is a game that I purchased because I was enamoured of the reasoning that the whole game should be fun to play, not just the part of the game after you reach level 80. Leveling in guild wars 2 was a refreshing and enjoyable experience because it largely wasn’t level-gated. And gaining levels didn’t render areas obsolete! I could still go to a starter zone with friends new to the game and get substantial experience out of it, and it was still challenging! I frequently forgot I even had level 20 scrolls, and I thought tomes of knowledge would never be for me.

If you’re trying to argue that having access to traits isn’t “game changing” you’re either using traits wrong, flat out lying, or traits are superfluous and Anet needs to be paying close attention to why that is.

Anyone who is defending these traits has never leveled an alt and wanted to play around with it.

If these unlocks were account wide, I’d have no issue with the system. But they are character based. That is kittening lunacy. I now have 4 80s and want to play around with builds, try weird things out, ect ect. However, I am not going to spend hours on each alt grinding out events nor am I willing to spend butt tons of gold and skill points. So I just buy guides for a pre-built and all it a day.

My main is just fine, because I’ve unlocked almost everything. I enjoy switching builds for random things and experimenting. I want to do that with all my toons.

please revert back to the old trait unlocking system. i wouldn’t mind paying 10g to buy the grandmaster traits book.

They purposefully broke the trait system to sell the fix as an expansion.

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Glad they’re revamping traits. I sincerely hope the new system gets more alt-friendly rather than less and costs less overall. The system as it is now was such a bad idea and its unpopularity speaks for itself.

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

Then there is no way possible that you have all of the traits unlocked for all 28 characters without buying them from the trainer(broken events not counted).

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

Then there is no way possible that you have all of the traits unlocked for all 28 characters without buying them from the trainer(broken events not counted).

I bought only a few because I needed something to fill up the empty slots. Every other traits are cosmetic and I hunted them all down because I needed a side quest that isn’t focused on leveling up. I spent around 10 skill point average for each characters.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

They said they are scrapping this trait system and putting in a new one.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/27/guild-wars-2-is-replacing-its-trait-unlock-system/

should have never been done in the first place without checking with the players and community first…

“Traits don’t make a difference” is just as mythological a statement as “Tyria has a free market in the TP” and “Ascended only gives you a 5% advantage on stats” it’s simply not true sorry.

OP I too thought their change to the traits system was welcome news!

Rius.7453:

Anyone who is defending these traits has never leveled an alt and wanted to play around with it.

I have created and leveled my 2nd guardian, 2nd ranger, 3rd ele and 3rd mesmer after the trait system change (ele and mesmer after npe, too), so not only have I leveled under the new system, but also have the direct comparison of leveling the class before and after. Personally, I find the new system nowhere near as bad as people make it out.

Each class has a couple of traits, especially in the mid-range tier, that are a bit of a nuisance to get. For example, I wanted deceptive evasion (for world exploration and wvw) and warden’s feedback (for dungeons) on my mesmer. While the corresponding trait tier opens at level 60, the traits are actually locked behind lvl 70 content (de hard-locked behind personal story, wf soft-locked behind a frostgorge sound explorer achievement). I was lucky to find a friend that carried me through the explorer one so I would actually get the trait at lvl 60 after all (involving lots of deaths due to the sheer amount of lvl 70+ veterans in the area ).

Some of the trait unlocks are unbalanced, and going out and doing the same unlocks again and again for each character does get tiresome if they follow each other closely (I’m currently leveling a necromancer, but taking it very slowly since I’ve started her a bit too quickly after the latest mesmer). Overall though, I still enjoy the new system more than the old one were traits just appeared out of thin air.

Plus, I’m very much a big fan of an aspect of the trait change that is overlooked by many these days: changing trait points on the fly as long as you’re out of combat, no trainer nor any charge involved. This way, I can actually experiment with what traits and trait lines I have while exploring, instead of being restricted to a certain trait line until I get back to the city and pay my fee to change points around. Trait experimentation wasn’t quite as unrestricted before as some make it out to be.

vpchelko.4261:

Agreed, Current leveling Trait and skill system very sux.

Explorer dungeons mods well show this problem, attempt to run these dungeon mod by character < 80 lvl is pain.

Actually it’s still fairly easy if you know what you’re doing. I just recently leveled a mesmer (my 3rd to 80, mesmer being my favourite class to play in dungeons), and actually found dungeoning while leveling a lot more satisfying, because you have to know your class and encounter mechanics at least to a certain extent. You can’t just “freeze and burn” most low-level bosses when you’re leveling yourself, but dungeons on low levels are still very doable.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

You will still play the game exactly the same way as before, except now you can deviate into using certain skills specifically.

For most traits I agree, but there are a few that can really change the way you play, like elementalist’s evasive arcana or mesmer’s deceptive evasion. Still, I never used those on my first charcters of the class until well past level 80, because the whole trait system was just so complex, things were changing up so quickly during leveling, and respeccing trait points needed a trainer an some silver coins. Playing around with traits and stuff hardly ever happened. I did use those traits during leveling later characters of those classes, but by then I knew very well what I was doing and how traits and playstyle went together.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

In my opinion, traits and the trait system matter so much that it is hampering my willingness to consider buying the expansion. Should the traits be fixed before the expansion, I know I will buy it. Should they not, then no way. I will be uninstalling this game instead.

As far as I know, Colin said that the changes to the trait system will come with the expansion, not before it, so I guess that means you may as well uninstall now .

A whole new thread popped up while this lingered on page 4.

Much the same discussion, but it’s diluting this thread. So even without this thread title prompting discussion, people are making new threads to complain about it. Even the ones who like this system say they only get the traits they need and forget about the rest (for the most part)

Is this the experimentation Anet had in mind? Sure, being able to switch on the fly is great and does exactly this (promote experimentation), but how much can you experiment if you only bother to get a handful of traits?

For the (just basing this on this thread and others like it) VERY FEW that seem to have enjoyed this trait system:

One of you describes having gotten all of the traits (or nearly all of them) by questing for them on your 20+ alts. Aside from having attempted this myself on just 2 alts I honestly can’t imagine what kind of time you have on your hands to map open/wait for and complete event chains/etc. MOST people have lives that leave them maybe an hour or 2 a day to play and even then that might be generous. To say your situation is atypical would be an understatement.

For the other one that I saw mentioning liking it in some way, you even admitted that you had a friend “carry you” through certain areas. That shouldn’t be how the game is played.

Thankfully all of that is moot. At the end of the day enough people have made it very clear that this current trait system is broken and I’m sure there are metrics that correlate to show this as a problem, hence the incoming fix.

To that end, the over all discussion here was more for speculating as to what that fix might be and when we might be seeing it. My hope is that Anet rolls it out before HoT so we can see it and get used to it (and possibly help tweak it if need be) before HoT drops so it doesn’t:

a) affect HoT sales
b) further confuse things for brand new players
c) cause more people that still have yet to experience this system rage after they make their first alt/revanent and relaize all of the nonsense they will have to do to get all the traits.

See, its real easy for us to say “if you make alts you should know what traits are good/work/etc” and you might be right in that you maybe don’t need ALL the traits. This won’t hold true for Revs though. People will want all the traits so they can buildcraft and this system as it stands now does not encourage this. At all. If it stays in place through the launch of HoT it WILL hurt the game and it WILL affect player satisfaction.

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

And you did not find the repetition tedious?

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

And you did not find the repetition tedious?

I don’t find the repetition tedious.

If I really need that specific trait or I have empty slots, I go to the profession trainer. I only need a minimum of 7 traits. Every other traits is cosmetic.

Traits are a distraction and a side quest away from the repetitive heart quests.

So the trait blademaster that has been broken since launch, is that going to ever be fixed?

It would be so useful for a bleed warrior, even though you nerfed rifle for no apparent reason, basically killing a pseudo-alternative to the zerker war.

If ANet put in meaningful distraction/side quest that rewards me equally as trait quest during leveling, then I’ll support removing trait quest. Dynamic event + Personal story doesn’t count. They aren’t rewarding. They don’t give me the “I actually got something!” feeling.

Leveling from 1-80 is boring without trait quest.

runeblade.7514:

If ANet put in meaningful distraction/side quest that rewards me equally as trait quest during leveling, then I’ll support removing trait quest. Dynamic event + Personal story doesn’t count. They aren’t rewarding. They don’t give me the “I actually got something!” feeling.

Leveling from 1-80 is boring without trait quest.

Leveling is the game. That’s the whole point of GW2 – the ‘endgame’ and the ‘before endgame’ are the same thing. Finding leveling boring is the same as finding the whole game boring.

Which is fine. Not every game is for every person. There are lots of games that focus strictly on progression and ‘rewards’ of bigger numbers. If you find playing GW2 so boring you need system reworks, perhaps another game would suit you better?

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

And you did not find the repetition tedious?

I don’t find the repetition tedious.

If I really need that specific trait or I have empty slots, I go to the profession trainer. I only need a minimum of 7 traits. Every other traits is cosmetic.

Traits are a distraction and a side quest away from the repetitive heart quests.

So what you are saying is that you DO NOT have every trait unlocked on all 28 of your characters? Because each profession has 65 traits not just 7 and “anything over 7 unlocked is just cosmetic.” If you don’t have all 65 traits unlocked then you can’t experiment and find new and better builds for yourself.

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

And you did not find the repetition tedious?

I don’t find the repetition tedious.

If I really need that specific trait or I have empty slots, I go to the profession trainer. I only need a minimum of 7 traits. Every other traits is cosmetic.

Traits are a distraction and a side quest away from the repetitive heart quests.

So what you are saying is that you DO NOT have every trait unlocked on all 28 of your characters? Because each profession has 65 traits not just 7 and “anything over 7 unlocked is just cosmetic.” If you don’t have all 65 traits unlocked then you can’t experiment and find new and better builds for yourself.

This. The new system quashes any real experimentation with traits, the old system (bless it’s glorious soul) was way better in that aspect.

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

And you did not find the repetition tedious?

I don’t find the repetition tedious.

If I really need that specific trait or I have empty slots, I go to the profession trainer. I only need a minimum of 7 traits. Every other traits is cosmetic.

Traits are a distraction and a side quest away from the repetitive heart quests.

So what you are saying is that you DO NOT have every trait unlocked on all 28 of your characters? Because each profession has 65 traits not just 7 and “anything over 7 unlocked is just cosmetic.” If you don’t have all 65 traits unlocked then you can’t experiment and find new and better builds for yourself.

Where did I say that?

runeblade.7514:

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

And you did not find the repetition tedious?

I don’t find the repetition tedious.

If I really need that specific trait or I have empty slots, I go to the profession trainer. I only need a minimum of 7 traits. Every other traits is cosmetic.

Traits are a distraction and a side quest away from the repetitive heart quests.

So what you are saying is that you DO NOT have every trait unlocked on all 28 of your characters? Because each profession has 65 traits not just 7 and “anything over 7 unlocked is just cosmetic.” If you don’t have all 65 traits unlocked then you can’t experiment and find new and better builds for yourself.

Where did I say that?

It’s what I took this to mean:

runeblade.7514:

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

Then there is no way possible that you have all of the traits unlocked for all 28 characters without buying them from the trainer(broken events not counted).

I bought only a few because I needed something to fill up the empty slots. Every other traits are cosmetic and I hunted them all down because I needed a side quest that isn’t focused on leveling up. I spent around 10 skill point average for each characters.

Gilosean.3805:

runeblade.7514:

If ANet put in meaningful distraction/side quest that rewards me equally as trait quest during leveling, then I’ll support removing trait quest. Dynamic event + Personal story doesn’t count. They aren’t rewarding. They don’t give me the “I actually got something!” feeling.

Leveling from 1-80 is boring without trait quest.

Leveling is the game. That’s the whole point of GW2 – the ‘endgame’ and the ‘before endgame’ are the same thing. Finding leveling boring is the same as finding the whole game boring.

Which is fine. Not every game is for every person. There are lots of games that focus strictly on progression and ‘rewards’ of bigger numbers. If you find playing GW2 so boring you need system reworks, perhaps another game would suit you better?

Nah, I like Guild Wars 2 how it is.

How about you go find another game?

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

And you did not find the repetition tedious?

I don’t find the repetition tedious.

If I really need that specific trait or I have empty slots, I go to the profession trainer. I only need a minimum of 7 traits. Every other traits is cosmetic.

Traits are a distraction and a side quest away from the repetitive heart quests.

So what you are saying is that you DO NOT have every trait unlocked on all 28 of your characters? Because each profession has 65 traits not just 7 and “anything over 7 unlocked is just cosmetic.” If you don’t have all 65 traits unlocked then you can’t experiment and find new and better builds for yourself.

Where did I say that?

It’s what I took this to mean:

runeblade.7514:

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

Then there is no way possible that you have all of the traits unlocked for all 28 characters without buying them from the trainer(broken events not counted).

I bought only a few because I needed something to fill up the empty slots. Every other traits are cosmetic and I hunted them all down because I needed a side quest that isn’t focused on leveling up. I spent around 10 skill point average for each characters.

So what you are saying is that you DO NOT have every trait unlocked on all 28 of your characters?

I’m not reading anything that says, “I don’t have every trait unlocked on all 28 characters.”

But well technically that’s true. I only have one character that isn’t level 80 and don’t have all the traits because she isn’t level 80.

I have a question about the ‘trait changes’ since my wallet is closed to anet until the system gets an overhaul…

If the trait changes affect everyone, wouldn’t it have to be independent of Heart of Thorns?

Or will it be like the NPE/trait system where only characters created after the new code is implemented get the trait change? (and if you don’t buy the expansion you are stuck with the old system or your characters made during the Trait 2.0 year are stuck with that)

Really would like some more concrete information (and I don’t mean cinder blocks thrown in this direction with ‘Trust me’ written on them)

Cameo.4073:

I have a question about the ‘trait changes’ since my wallet is closed to anet until the system gets an overhaul…

If the trait changes affect everyone, wouldn’t it have to be independent of Heart of Thorns?

Or will it be like the NPE/trait system where only characters created after the new code is implemented get the trait change? (and if you don’t buy the expansion you are stuck with the old system or your characters made during the Trait 2.0 year are stuck with that)

Really would like some more concrete information (and I don’t mean cinder blocks thrown in this direction with ‘Trust me’ written on them)

i dont think tying old traits to the new expansion would happen. Its too much work maintaining and balancing two different systems, and would cause too much problems. Basically its just an all around loss, so i dont think they would do it.

runeblade.7514:

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

And you did not find the repetition tedious?

I don’t find the repetition tedious.

If I really need that specific trait or I have empty slots, I go to the profession trainer. I only need a minimum of 7 traits. Every other traits is cosmetic.

Traits are a distraction and a side quest away from the repetitive heart quests.

So what you are saying is that you DO NOT have every trait unlocked on all 28 of your characters? Because each profession has 65 traits not just 7 and “anything over 7 unlocked is just cosmetic.” If you don’t have all 65 traits unlocked then you can’t experiment and find new and better builds for yourself.

Where did I say that?

It’s what I took this to mean:

runeblade.7514:

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

Then there is no way possible that you have all of the traits unlocked for all 28 characters without buying them from the trainer(broken events not counted).

I bought only a few because I needed something to fill up the empty slots. Every other traits are cosmetic and I hunted them all down because I needed a side quest that isn’t focused on leveling up. I spent around 10 skill point average for each characters.

So what you are saying is that you DO NOT have every trait unlocked on all 28 of your characters?

I’m not reading anything that says, “I don’t have every trait unlocked on all 28 characters.”

But well technically that’s true. I only have one character that isn’t level 80 and don’t have all the traits because she isn’t level 80.

Everything you are forced to do in order to get traits you could still do with the old system. The only difference is that those that do not like nor want to play your way are not forced to do so. You can still get 100% map completion, you can still get 100% exploration(even though you won’t get anymore achievements for it), you can still roam the world killing every champion and completing every Dynamic Event whether they be singular or a chain. The only difference is you won’t be forced to do anything you don’t want to.

The old system had level gating in it so you weren’t just given everything at level one. You still had to wait for certain levels to unlocks the tiers. And when you unlocked a tier you got every trait for that tier. They were very nice power up levels but you still had to have enough trait points to use them. So even when you finally unlocked the grandmaster traits you could only lock in 1 until you got more trait points. But the big thing here is that even though you only use one, you had the choice of changing it if that trait didn’t work well with your build and how you play.

The old trait system was better overall for everyone and the only people that do not believe that are the ones that want everyone to play the way they like to play.

Cameo.4073:

I have a question about the ‘trait changes’ since my wallet is closed to anet until the system gets an overhaul…

If the trait changes affect everyone, wouldn’t it have to be independent of Heart of Thorns?

Or will it be like the NPE/trait system where only characters created after the new code is implemented get the trait change? (and if you don’t buy the expansion you are stuck with the old system or your characters made during the Trait 2.0 year are stuck with that)

Really would like some more concrete information (and I don’t mean cinder blocks thrown in this direction with ‘Trust me’ written on them)

I agree, just a little bit of info like

Yes it will come at the same time as HoT. Yes it will be for everyone even if you do not purchase HoT. Or no only those that purchase HoT get the change. Those are simple questions that we really shouldn’t even need to ask but since they are being asked they should be kittening answered.

Ojyh.9842:

1 – Templates like in GW1

Mighty Assasin.3816:

Ojyh.9842:

1 – Templates like in GW1

8 minutes 44 seconds into this video, BogOtter asks Colin Johanson about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-dUjV6pa8Y&t=8m44s

Svarty.8019:

Mighty Assasin.3816:

Ojyh.9842:

1 – Templates like in GW1

8 minutes 44 seconds into this video, BogOtter asks Colin Johanson about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-dUjV6pa8Y&t=8m44s

Right, soooo, no then.

Moving on. :/

Rune: You said that all you need is 7 traits and the rest are cosmetic. I believe this to be horrendously over simplified and inaccurate for many people.

For a vet player (especially ones that build craft or rely on changing builds as the situations present themselves) they might need anywhere from 7-20 traits unlocked just to have that flexibility or for true build crafters, all of the traits unlocked.

On my Guardian alone I can quickly count off about 18 that i need (might be more). My Engie and thief need almost all of them for the builds i use on them at any given time. I’m sure there are plenty of Elementalists out there that need more than 7.

A warrior i brought up through the trait system recently didn’t have dogged march. An adept level trait. Do you have any idea how upset i was when I saw where I had to go just to get it? This is one of the core traits (IMO) for warriors and I had to go hunt it after getting to level 80. This system is broken and thankfully anet has seen that.

So, Anet: Do we see some info regarding the trait system after PAX? During closed or open beta of HoT?

Galphar.3901:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

Bellizare.5816:

runeblade.7514:

I like the new trait system.

It gave me meaningful enhancements between level 30-80. Before the trait system, I simply power leveled because leveling was boring.

Be honest Blade. Leveling is still boring once you get your first 80.

Look at my signature. Count how many characters I have.

Most of them are created after the new trait system has been implemented.

And you did not find the repetition tedious?

I don’t find the repetition tedious.

If I really need that specific trait or I have empty slots, I go to the profession trainer. I only need a minimum of 7 traits. Every other traits is cosmetic.

Traits are a distraction and a side quest away from the repetitive heart quests.

So what you are saying is that you DO NOT have every trait unlocked on all 28 of your characters? Because each profession has 65 traits not just 7 and “anything over 7 unlocked is just cosmetic.” If you don’t have all 65 traits unlocked then you can’t experiment and find new and better builds for yourself.

Runeblade, would you be happy with a trait system that is less specific than the current implementation?

See, I get where you are coming from, having a set list of tasks to do does help get through a task, even making it less tedious. The fact you enjoy repeating the tasks makes this system more valuable to you, which I am glad for. But I personally dislike it, and would much rather a more general line. I would like to propose to make it complete event in Ascalon/Shiverpeaks/Whatever, just for the first tier (bam choice and fillers) and let the higher tiers be more specific so you actually have progression and work to earn. Would you find this change acceptable?
(Sorry if it feels like I’m targeting you, I just want to see how to find a middle ground with someone who thinks differently from me, based on what I think the issues are)

To no one in particular, the change has, as said above, killed experimentation on newly made characters, which is my fun. I luckily have at least 1 of every class grandfathered into the system, so all it did was kill my desire to make alts for tedious repetition (I tried and I failed to get 100% trait completion before leaving the characters to gather dust). It takes away from the learning experience by gating off an essential part of character building, back loading the learning curve instead of smoothing it out.

I may disagree with rune, but his position is still a valid counter point in this discussion, regardless of its extreme nature (by my standards at least).

For instance, I get on some level the joy Rune may get from seeking out the traits repeatedly as a diversion to the “standard gameplay”. In a way its no different than those people that do and re-do all the JPs and know them like the back of their hands.

The difference here (for me) is that JPs are 100% optional, or rather they should be. So should dungeons. So should map completion. And here is where I felt, along with many others, that the trait system as it stands now has failed. It made many of those things compulsory if you wanted to have an even remotely complete character that could “roll with the vets” that already had toons with all the traits unlocked. It created a divide in the player base and ultimately worked against the very thing Anet was trying to achieve regarding build experimentation.

This is the reason why it is getting fixed. That being said, it is important to hear from people like Rune in this discussion because there may still be aspects of this system that can be salvaged to both allow for meaningful progression at proper levels on the way up to 80. Rune might be in a minority of players, but he isn’t alone.

I just want to make sure that Anet is actually going to engage with us before Traits 3.0 goes live so we can avoid another year long+ quagmire.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I just want to make sure that Anet is actually going to engage with us before Traits 3.0 goes live so we can avoid another year long+ quagmire.

I agree. How they handle traits 3.0 is a key factor whether to buy HoT or not for me.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I just want to make sure that Anet is actually going to engage with us before Traits 3.0 goes live so we can avoid another year long+ quagmire.

They won’t. If they were going to engage with us they would already be bouncing ideas off us in the forums. The guys in charge are stubborn and believe they know better than the players. We are supposed to shut up, eat what they give us, and like it. So we will get what we get and I will continue to play other games.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I just want to make sure that Anet is actually going to engage with us before Traits 3.0 goes live so we can avoid another year long+ quagmire.

They won’t. If they were going to engage with us they would already be bouncing ideas off us in the forums. The guys in charge are stubborn and believe they know better than the players. We are supposed to shut up, eat what they give us, and like it. So we will get what we get and I will continue to play other games.

That is the way it has been in the past. Hopefully, they’ll have learned their lesson and will engage us with ideas. If they just drop a new Traits system on us again and it’s worse than we have now, then they will loose more than half of the playerbase I think. And it would then take a miracle to bring them back and allow GW2 to survive then.

Galphar.3901:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I just want to make sure that Anet is actually going to engage with us before Traits 3.0 goes live so we can avoid another year long+ quagmire.

They won’t. If they were going to engage with us they would already be bouncing ideas off us in the forums. The guys in charge are stubborn and believe they know better than the players. We are supposed to shut up, eat what they give us, and like it. So we will get what we get and I will continue to play other games.

That is the way it has been in the past. Hopefully, they’ll have learned their lesson and will engage us with ideas. If they just drop a new Traits system on us again and it’s worse than we have now, then they will loose more than half of the playerbase I think. And it would then take a miracle to bring them back and allow GW2 to survive then.

I don’t believe there’s any flexibility in whatever they have planned for new-new trait acquisition. They’ve had a year to engage us with ideas, to bounce back our feedback in the original 83-page thread, and it just sat there. All year.

So. Whatever we end up getting will determine if I end up getting the expansion or if I stick to the base game and continue spending my entertainment money elsewhere.

I agree that they probably have the trait system set in … well not stone, but wet cement. As Guhracie said, if they wanted specific input from us, they’ve had nearly a year to do so and haven’t. If they want general, unfocused input, then they have pages and pages of it. We don’t know what they took out of it, however, so it does us no good. I honestly don’t understand what they expect us to discuss.

I am sitting on the fence with the expansion because it’s disheartening to level up alts (something I enjoy) and if it doesn’t get better, it might kill my enthusiasm for the game itself. I have faith that the new system will be better than what we have now, but the bar is set pretty low. It can still be bad and be better than what we have now.

I’m currently on the fence about getting HoT or not also. I have an open re-invite to 2 MMO’s that I previously subscribed to before GW2 came out and it’s looking more and more like I’ll be spending a majority of my free time in one of them now. I’ll reserve my judgement until after the Beta and maybe even HoT release tho. Hopefully we’ll at least get a chance to see the new Traits in Beta and be able to give some input and I can make a Revenent in my final character slot.

Well they did see what we didn’t like about it. Specific things were listed as oppose to just hate mail because it was different. If most of your family hate a particular color for the new family car, such as “anything that’s green”, then you don’t really need to engage with them as they made their feelings quite clear.

Behellagh.1468:

Well they did see what we didn’t like about it. Specific things were listed as oppose to just hate mail because it was different. If most of your family hate a particular color for the new family car, such as “anything that’s green”, then you don’t really need to engage with them as they made their feelings quite clear.

Yeah, but just because my family hates anything that’s green, it doesn’t mean they’d be thrilled with a red car, either. Also, “not green” is really not a great criterion to send someone out shopping for a family car with.

“Not green” is basically how we got this trait system to begin with. “Oh, it’d be great to have something like elite skill hunting from GW1!” They took that and ran with it. Yeah, the bicycle built for two with attachable trailer isn’t green, but it doesn’t work for my family, either.

Behellagh.1468:

Well they did see what we didn’t like about it. Specific things were listed as oppose to just hate mail because it was different. If most of your family hate a particular color for the new family car, such as “anything that’s green”, then you don’t really need to engage with them as they made their feelings quite clear.

Knowing that the community hated this, “color,” doesn’t necessarily mean knowing whether or not the community will hate any other specific color.

Its theoretically possible that the fix to the trait system will be less liked than the current implementation.

True, it’s a poor analogy until you realize it’s always been a wishing well with ANet. We toss in our “wishes” on how something should go and what we currently don’t like and a year passes and we get something new. They may run it by a few trusted players under NDA but that’s it. We aren’t going to get an EVE style council of players much less full disclosure early enough to alter design if the vocal majority rejects it.

Behellagh.1468:

They may run it by a few trusted players under NDA but that’s it. We aren’t going to get an EVE style council of players much less full disclosure early enough to alter design if the vocal majority rejects it.

Thus my confusion about what they even intend for us to ‘discuss’ about traits. It’s not much of a discussion if we’re just aimlessly tossing suggestions and complaints at a wall hoping something sticks.

They are looking at our want/don’t want list. They want to see if any align or diametrically oppose with what they may be doing to judge our temperature. With that they may be able to spin the changes in the best light.

Someone pointed out that by having all the traits available up front allows experimentation. Another suggested only having only the GrandMaster traits acquired via quests. Another suggested account wide unlocks.

Personally I think the Traits 3.0 is due to the reduction/elimination of Skill Points as a currency since they’ve said once level 80 it’ll no longer award a Skill Point. Without being flushed in skill points you can’t really use them as an option to buy ALL the traits.

I get that they have looked at our input, but you can’t really call it a discussion if only one side is doing the talking. That’s what I am getting at.