Greetings all. There are those who may not be aware of this, but Anet is one of the most LGBT friendly game companies in existence. Not only do they have a bunch of openly transgender people employed in development and music composition, but they are the first to incorporate homosexual relationships in GW lore, and had the first same-sex kiss in the main story line of a top MMO. To add to this, GW2 also features the first transgender NPC mesmer in Lion’s Arch!
Being a pioneer in gaming, I think it’s time for Anet to once again push the envelope further towards equality for all. I believe the time is right for Aid Worker Sya to join our heroes in the next Living Story arc. What better way to teach acceptance and tolerance than to put a transgender character front and center in a main story? The story could detail the struggles that a transgender person in the world of Tyria, why Symon became Sya, and how she overcomes adversity in the face of Elder Dragon threats. Dare I suggest that Sya be the one to deal the killing blow to the Elder Dragon in the next expansion?
As a straight liberal male, I salute Anet for all they’ve done to connect with all types of players. Good job MO and Colin (if you still lurk our forums)!
When trying to draw the largest player base/revenue base possible it can become dangerous to aim for a very small fractional percentage of the population.
I would rather Anet continue to seek balance of representation within the game that more equitably reflects a current cross section of the general player population.
And being an American shell shocked by all the propaganda and societal engineering enherent to a presidential election year; I would beg you on bended knee not to inject this into my one last bastion of peace/media sanity.
…I swear to god if ANet does this I’m out. I’d quit.
Not because I have anything against transgenders or anything, but just because frankly with the NPC’s we already have cluttering up the storyline we don’t need any more ‘main characters’.
I don’t care if Sya shows up some more in LW Season 3 as sort of side character or the like, but there’s enough plotpoints already that need tying up.
Making any character a major face runs the risk of getting the same hatred as Trahearne and others along those lines. Regardless of their gender or orientation. The current characters work because they aren’t overshadowing the player.
Especially if its a “PC does all the work and NPC takes all the credit for the kill” scenario.
I think we have enough NPCs in the story as it is. It’s possible to add too many subplots and bog the story down. Especially bad is to add NPCs for no reason other than SJW (Social Justice Warrior) reasons rather than what is needed to advance a story.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
The Russian LGBT propaganda law (also known in English-language media as Russia’s “gay propaganda law” or “anti-gay law”12) refers to a Russian federal law “for the Purpose of Protecting Children from Information Advocating for a Denial of Traditional Family Values”. Unanimously approved by the State Duma on 11 June 2013 (with just one MP abstained—Ilya Ponomarev),3 the bill was signed into law by President Vladimir Putin on 30 June 2013.4
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So if you want to sell the game without fear of being sued.. you have to cater to the Lowest Common Denominator.
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The Russian government’s stated purpose for the law is to protect children from being exposed to content recognizing homosexuality as being a norm in society, under the argument that it contradicts what it considers to be traditional family values. The statute amended the country’s child protection law and the Code of the Russian Federation on Administrative Offenses, to make the distribution of materials promoting “non-traditional sexual relationships” among minors, including materials which contain “notions of attractiveness” of non-traditional sexual relationships, present “distorted ideas about the equal social value of traditional and non-traditional sexual relationships”, or information that “raises interest in” non-traditional sexual relationships, an offense punishable by fines. Businesses and organizations can also be forced to temporarily cease operations if convicted under the law, and foreigners may be arrested and detained for up to 15 days then deported, or fined up to 5,000 rubles and deported.
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Guild wars 2 is sold as a ‘TEEN’ game – so this includes ‘Children’ in Russian eyes.
So I would like to keep playing with my Russian friends – thank you.
There can exist a balance between story arcs and NPCs. By putting Sya front and center of a Living Story, you don’t risking things from becoming too confusing. In past stories, other main NPCs went off to do other things, like Taimi being absent while she did research. Anet has some of the best writers in the industry, and I have faith in them being able to manage multiple storylines in the same arc.
I think the hatred comes from the fact that Trahearne took credit for all of our hard work.
It’ll be hard for a front and center NPC who’s essentially the main point to not be the same issue, especially with killing a dragon. Something that even Trahearne didn’t even do. (Which probably was the only thing from him being staked before HOT.)
I’m quite aware of what’s going on in Russia. But consider this:
1) Anet is an American company. Russian laws do not have any effect or enforcement.
1a) That wouldn’t be the case of Anet had an office in Russia. Thank goodness their data servers aren’t there.
2) GW2 already has homosexual storylines (i.e. Jory and Kas). They kissed as part of the end scene to the Living Story.
As it is now, Sya is treated as just another person in Lion’s Arch. She has conversations with NPCs, and even a short one with you if you try to talk to her. But… she’s treated as a normal person. She’s just a person where we know a bit of her history, just like that charr with Scarlet’s rattle. (You know the one. “Curse that Scarlet!”)
But the player’s party is NOT normal people. They stand out. They do the exceptional. They are, by definition, abnormal. To add someone to that group simply because of their gender identity is to say that this one thing is enough for them to be considered abnormal. I’m pretty sure that’s not the way we want to go.
I’m quite aware of what’s going on in Russia. But consider this:
1) Anet is an American company. Russian laws do not have any effect or enforcement.
1a) That wouldn’t be the case of Anet had an office in Russia. Thank goodness their data servers aren’t there.
2) GW2 already has homosexual storylines (i.e. Jory and Kas). They kissed as part of the end scene to the Living Story.
If the content of GW2 goes past whatever line the Russian government has drawn, they can stop the sale of the game there and instruct all ISPs to block access to the connections needed to play the game. And just like that, they can’t play any more.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
The story could detail the struggles that a transgender person in the world of Tyria, why Symon became Sya,
i dont mind Sya getting a bigger role in the story. But i dont want tyria to become a “exact” mirror of our world.
also im kinda still waiting to see will there be a struggle of being a sylvari in a post mordy tyria xD
As it is now, Sya is treated as just another person in Lion’s Arch. She has conversations with NPCs, and even a short one with you if you try to talk to her. But… she’s treated as a normal person. She’s just a person where we know a bit of her history, just like that charr with Scarlet’s rattle. (You know the one. “Curse that Scarlet!”)
But the player’s party is NOT normal people. They stand out. They do the exceptional. They are, by definition, abnormal. To add someone to that group simply because of their gender identity is to say that this one thing is enough for them to be considered abnormal. I’m pretty sure that’s not the way we want to go.
I’m quite aware of what’s going on in Russia. But consider this:
1) Anet is an American company. Russian laws do not have any effect or enforcement.
1a) That wouldn’t be the case of Anet had an office in Russia. Thank goodness their data servers aren’t there.
2) GW2 already has homosexual storylines (i.e. Jory and Kas). They kissed as part of the end scene to the Living Story.
If the content of GW2 goes past whatever line the Russian government has drawn, they can stop the sale of the game there and instruct all ISPs to block access to the connections needed to play the game. And just like that, they can’t play any more.
Hey now. Being exceptional isn’t a bad thing. Having a Transgender NPC become exceptional would be a great way to embrace diversity. It’s not so much having the NPC as being portrayed as “normal” in the background, but rather shattering the stigma that a Transgender person, or any LGBT person is abnormal in society. We treat Jory and Kas the same as Braham and Taimi, all equals. Why can’t we do the same for Sya?
As for Russia, they’ll do what they do. That’s why America is land of the free, and home to the brave.
Lets not forget all of the sylvari that have tender moments with their brothers and sisters of the same gender.
On another note, lets also promote traditional value and stuff and make Logan propose the queen! Cmon..we need another jublilee and the crown pavilion!
Speaking of charr, I think a trans charr would be insanely interesting. They’d have to get a tail implant. I don’t mean that as a joke even, it’s just an interesting thought.
Also this thread is totes getting shut down if we bring Russia into the discussion. Russia… good grief.
Oh cmon now, Sya is just a normal person, just like any other resident of LA, putting them up on a pedestal and doing the whole “hip hip hooray” is not the right path. That is actually the opposite, normal, everyday people, who want to be treated as a normal person doesn’t get special treatment because of something irrelevant to the story or their orientation, that defeats the purpose of being treated equally.
Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]
I really do not want the game infected with Social Justice engineering.
What is the point? And why the bragging? Same sex relationships are common in games now. It is no big deal and certainly not a first.
Where some see pioneering, I see pandering. DE2 is full of it. I don’t look for life lessons from a video game. Soul-less, pixillated non persons in a fake world with none of the struggles people in RL have to face. It is phony, feel good crap that accomplishes nothing.
I want a better story, not an SJW tumblr blog and I don’t need a story driven by RL agenda unrelated to Tyria. (to my knowledge Gender inequality does not exist in Tyria) If the relationships are there, fine, but don’t trumpet them as some sort of social triumph and do not hype an NPC because of orientation. I highly doubt that the lesbian relationship here changed one single mind re RL acceptance.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
I highly doubt that the lesbian relationship here changed one single mind re RL acceptance.
Let’s also be sure not to confuse your good point about the stupidly named SJWs with the fact that anet did some decent writing with the lesbian relationship. They did not call attention to it; it just existed, like you wanted. Very tasteful IMO.
I thought the sylvari “same sex” relationships were beyond perfect, they didn’t even acknowledged that it was slightly unexpected. Absolutely perfect.
Transgenders make up about 0.3% of people in the world. That means there should not be more than 0.3% transgender characters in GW2 or it’s story. Over-representation is not a good thing.
You don’t pander to super small minorities when there’s a majority to please. Not if you want to make money and avoid alienating your customers anyway.
Inclusivity is nice and all, but it should never come at the expense of more important things like focusing on an actual story and not irrelevant tripe like gender identity issues and cringe-worthy romance sub-plots . I’ll accept a final Logan x Rytlock romance because they’re the only characters with any noticeable chemistry at all in the entirety of GW2, but that’s it.
I highly doubt that the lesbian relationship here changed one single mind re RL acceptance.
Let’s also be sure not to confuse your good point about the stupidly named SJWs with the fact that anet did some decent writing with the lesbian relationship. They did not call attention to it; it just existed, like you wanted. Very tasteful IMO.
I thought the sylvari “same sex” relationships were beyond perfect, they didn’t even acknowledged that it was slightly unexpected. Absolutely perfect.
Perhaps, but the “Lets go pick out curtains” line made me throw up a little. And face it, had they been a male couple it would not have gone over so well.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
Where some see pioneering, I see pandering. DE2 is full of it. I don’t look for life lessons from a video game. Soul-less, pixillated non persons in a fake world with none of the struggles people in RL have to face. It is phony, feel good crap that accomplishes nothing.
That soul-less pixel you speak of was put in place by a real transgender Anet Dev, with real issues that she deals with on a daily basis. So be careful when you go out making such claims, especially when you’ve never walked a day in their shoes.
And no, she didn’t go out and shout to the world that an NPC is now transgender. I did that. I brought it to the forefront because I applaud her spirit and bravery to have to face a world that’s still not wholly accepting her as who she is. And it wasn’t to put her on a pedestal to worship, but rather to give a champion to LGBT’s struggles and give hope by showing people do care about them.
It’s great that GW2 has a transgender NPC, but I wouldn’t want her to become the main character for a variety of reasons. Chief among them being that the story is already too big for the game to properly tell. HoT had a TON of content cut for time and pacing. Adding an entire sub-plot about a transgender person’s struggles in Tyria, a story 99% of the playerbase don’t care about because they play this game for a high fantasy adventure and not a drama, would mean giving up chunks of story that actually matter to the world of Tyria as a whole.
The other big reason is that doing this would turn her into a lightning rod for hate. Players HATE it when an NPC becomes the focus of the story over their own character. It’s why Kormir and Trahearne are both deeply hated characters despite there not being much to actually hate about them. Giving her the killing blow on an Elder Dragon? She’d be the most hated character in the franchise immediately.
Where some see pioneering, I see pandering. DE2 is full of it. I don’t look for life lessons from a video game. Soul-less, pixillated non persons in a fake world with none of the struggles people in RL have to face. It is phony, feel good crap that accomplishes nothing.
That soul-less pixel you speak of was put in place by a real transgender Anet Dev, with real issues that she deals with on a daily basis. So be careful when you go out making such claims, especially when you’ve never walked a day in their shoes.
And no, she didn’t go out and shout to the world that an NPC is now transgender. I did that. I brought it to the forefront because I applaud her spirit and bravery to have to face a world that’s still not wholly accepting her as who she is. And it wasn’t to put her on a pedestal to worship, but rather to give a champion to LGBT’s struggles and give hope by showing people do care about them.
And just how would you know just what daily struggles I face?
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
Why should someones sexual orientation be the center point of a story? Wouldn’t that be doing the exact opposite of what LGBT community wants? Which is singling out a person based on their sexual orientation.
I believe the love a person has for another regardless of same sex or not is a natural thing. Why make a story focus on a natural thing? To me that is like making a big deal about what a persons favorite color is. Instead make the story about a persons contributions to Tyria or their accomplishments.
The penguin likes to make provocative topics every once in a while just because. So, keep that in mind before taking anything in this thread TOO seriously.
I am. My friends deserve a world where they can feel as I feel. Freedom from the hate and bigotry simply because they’re different. In order to change minds, you have to incorporate these themes into everyday stories. Slowly, over time, people become accepting. My game and lesbian friends have come a long way in society because people stood up for them over the years.
Why should someones sexual orientation be the center point of a story?
It’s not sexual orientation, but rather sexual identity. A Transgender NPC story doesn’t need romance (though I personally think that wouldn’t be a bad thing). Simply having them exist is a big first step towards acceptance. The NPC in Lion’s Arch was a good step, but the next step should be to make Sya a hero that helps you on your quest.
The penguin likes to make provocative topics every once in a while just because. So, keep that in mind before taking anything in this thread TOO seriously.
There’s nothing wrong with discussions about tolerance and acceptance. It’s only provocative because people are scared of it. When I campaigned for Barack Obama in 2007, I felt I did my part to spread the acceptance that an African American man could become the most powerful man in the world.
Edit – Let’s get back on topic. I love Anet, and even though I haven’t been happy with them for a few months, this game is my home away from home. As such, I feel the need to suggest things that could prove beneficial to the needs of a minority.
You have good intentions and all, but I can see this going horribly wrong. And it’s not just bigots and homophobes that will be annoyed by something like this. Most people in this generation are accepting and tolerant people. If you approach them with a transgender character, the worst reaction you’ll get is an indifferent shrug. Because we’ve moved past the phase of “OMG every trans person is such a hero!” and more into the “So what? Transgender is a part of life. Get over it” phase. At least when you’re dealing with a “world” like GW (or really any video game, as they’re typically filled with people of a certain generation).
In real life, we all understand that transgender people have a struggle to get over. Most of us at least. We know there are certain times when attention needs to be focused on the bigotry against transgendered people. But in GW, that doesn’t exist. What we’re all working for in real life is a world where people wouldn’t look twice at a trans person. Because why would you? They’re people. Like every other person. Right now, they’re brave and standing against a world that generally works against them, but at some point, when they become the norm, as they should be, (and as they’re generally viewed on the internet) all this pointing and forcing them into the spotlight will be almost equally detrimental to their cause. Because you’re still separating them from the rest of us.
TL;DR: Taking a transgender person and going “HEY LOOK! This person is different from us!” Even with good intentions is not the way to make them accepted.
Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.
Its really irritating people seem to feel the need to push LGBT stuff for the sake of promoting LGBT stuff.
its enough to not be against it, its another thing to purposefully try to push it on people.
The moment your goal loses the focus of “tell agreat story” and gains “tell a great lgbt story” is when you’re over stepping. the goal of the game isnt to promote LGBT.
if it fits characters personally, then fine.
but dont begin trying to make a story with the goal of some LGBT propaganda (thats not a dysphemism, that is straight up what it is)
I am not sure that one’s gender identity should be the reason for one’s station, position, or advancement in life, or in game. Choosing to advance a character, not because of relevant character qualities, but because of their gender identity is a bad idea IMO. It says that one should be singled out because of one’s gender identity.
Squee, I agree that pushing a topic can the opposite effect of what the intention was. Seeing Sya without having to question her purpose would be good, because at that point they’d be integrated into society. Unfortunately, the transgender community hasn’t enjoyed the movement that gay/lesbians have had, which is why I’m suggesting stories featuring Sya. As I previously stated, doing so would be more of a nod to her existence that anything. It’s my own personal wish to see her as a hero though. If Anet’s writers would consider my idea, I’m sure they could write her in without having to “shove” her identity issue down our throats.
Speaking in general terms, when a group of people feel society looks down upon them, it’s good to do something nice for them. History has looked down upon many groups. Women. Muslims. Blacks. Asians. Gay. It took years for women to earn the right to vote. It took years for the homosexual lifestyle to become something that people shouldn’t fear. Heck, my distant family was locked up because they were Japanese Americans when Pearl Harbor was bombed. Tolerance isn’t something that can be taught overnite. It takes time, and a good companies like Anet, to champion change.
The issue is GW2 isn’t a book. Giving her even a side story means dropping other elements of future storylines to make room for her. As I said before, Anet is already having a hard time fleshing out the world and characters they already have. They’ve already started cutting HUGE sections of content. Adding a new character with her own story means dropping some other story element to do so, as Anet has limited time and resources to play with.
The best stories are told because they go where the story leads them. They don’t drag in chars that are unrelated to the story line to pander to one group or another. They don’t warp the story to have the hot topic of the day in order to score points or preach.
What the OP is suggesting that ANet do is story telling at its worse, which is soulless story telling by checking off the list of ‘important topics.’ If they ever do what the OP suggests, they might as well shoot the story to put it out of its misery and start over, and listen less to bad advice from people who don’t understand how to tell a story.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
“Seeing Sya without having to question her purpose would be good, because at that point they’d be integrated into society.”
Therein lies a huge part of the problem. Sya doesn’t have much of a purpose. Until now, the only remarkable thing about her IS the fact that she is transgendered. So bringing her into the role of hero would be like bringing one of the random lionguard yak escort NPC’s into the party. We’re left wondering where this person ever came from and why it deserves to be treated special.
And that leaves us with the only logical assumption. She is special because she is trans, and thus elevated simply for that.
Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.
Anet is championing change by hiring those individuals. Real change, in real life, where it actually matters and real courage is shown. To reward a person for talent and creativity.. who happens to be Transgender. Not because they are.
You are suggesting that an existing minor NPC should be given a major game role… solely because they are Transgender. Personally, I find that insulting and demeaning to be honest.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
If someone is trans, okay. But it really isn’t necessary to inject it into the game. All toons in the game (and gw1) can get a gender change for a few bucks. There is nothing special about it and no reason to call attention to it. None of the NPCs or players can tell the difference. Anyone who thinks that they need a flamboyant, in your face, trans character in a major story, in a fake world, has a lot of personal issues to work on that no video game can fix. It will just kitten people off and make them less likely to accept you in the waking world.
Personally Sya could be given the “Hero-Tron treatment” Where it’s all dependant on players reaction
She gets a mini side story over the course of the LW (job-o-tron loses his job, becomes Hobo-Tron and gets captured by Scarlet) players like her and request for her to return (becomes Ho-ho-tron) she returns playing a major role in story and players still like her (becomes Heal-o-tron) and she then has future potential story arcs (becomes Hero-Tron gets blackmailed as a spy……possible role on the possible attack on LA…..).
Using Hero-Tron as an analogy works here too. Let’s say Hero-Tron joins our group of heroes after his story with Evon and the Captain’s Council. Most likely everyone would like it as long as the golem doesn’t upstage the other members: he shines in a few episodes but stays quiet in others. Now imagine if Hero-Tron kills an Elder Dragon and our PC doesn’t………….I love the character but if that were to happen………
1) I would seriously question Anet’s storytelling
2) My love for the character would be highly damaged
I don’tt think it’s such a good idea to go out of the way to preach such a story. Wouldn’t it be better to have such things be just normal in the setting? No one in Tyria makes any sout of deal with it because it’s about as big a news as someone getting a haircut. There is no intolerance. At least that’s what I get from the setting.
So, again, there is no need to put someone front and center to preach about the social struggles of someone who would only face such struggles on Earth, and not on Tyria. Well… maybe the Sons of Svanir and Flame Legion would create such a struggle for someone. I hear they’re pretty intolerant. Just another reason to hack them to bits right? Yes there’s an irony in here about intolerantly hacking away the intolerant for the sake of maintaining tolerance.
And this is coming from someone who does ahve “struggles” as you would see it Penguin. I’m blind, but its whatevs because everyone has some sort of struggle. Anyways, you don’t see me begging everyone to feature a blind character whose story revolves around how hard it is to get through life blind. I definitely wouldn’t want that because seriously, who cares. I don’t.
The only reason I openly advertise that I’m blind because I want people to understand that I have severe visual impairments taht might explain why I do some idiotic things in game :p. Also, just to show that it’s possible to play games bli
Don’t see any need for the idea or the thread. The forced agenda storylines and dialogue are frankly one of the worst things about GW2 as far as I am concerned.
I have no problem with her or any other trans character being part of the important group. But I also think it’s important to have diversity shown in npc’s, where it’s seen as something absolutely normal for others, and no one giving a kitten about it.
Just make it right and not so it looks like “hey! we have a trans character! look at us!” good writing can go a long way.
I’m glad Anet is a lgbt friendly company, I used to play WoW and most of the community in there is awful in that regard, and Blizzard having absolutely no lgbt characters, even small npc’s (that I know of) don’t really help the case. There is a saying that goes: “If in an abuse situation, you don’t take any side, then you’ve already sided with the abuser”.
it’s curious that for some people all gay characters are propaganda. are straight characters propaganda too?
if thats the only reason they are in the story then yes they are!
/although being that sya is part of a order she has a legit reason to be in the story for her skills alone if anet ever decide to do so (but not for the reason the OP wants IMO)
Gays, transgenders..whatever – they should not be discriminated against, but neither should their be an agenda to promote based on sexual orientation – this has NOTHING to do with a game. That doesn’t mean you should not see these types of NPC, just dont use them as a ‘statement’ or disproportional represent. In Real life im sure these people want to be treated normally and with respect – not stuck on a pedestal with everyone pointing and saying look we respect them!
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
As it is now, Sya is treated as just another person in Lion’s Arch. She has conversations with NPCs, and even a short one with you if you try to talk to her. But… she’s treated as a normal person. She’s just a person where we know a bit of her history, just like that charr with Scarlet’s rattle. (You know the one. “Curse that Scarlet!”)
That’s how I usually treat someone, but everyone wants to be a special snowflake.
So how bout no. Let’s not put her on a pedastle and instead treat her like the rest of the NPC’s. Interesting at first, ignored the rest of the time. Equality
Greetings all. There are those who may not be aware of this, but Anet is one of the most LGBT friendly game companies in existence. Not only do they have a bunch of openly transgender people employed in development and music composition, but they are the first to incorporate homosexual relationships in GW lore, and had the first same-sex kiss in the main story line of a top MMO. To add to this, GW2 also features the first transgender NPC mesmer in Lion’s Arch!
Being a pioneer in gaming, I think it’s time for Anet to once again push the envelope further towards equality for all. I believe the time is right for Aid Worker Sya to join our heroes in the next Living Story arc. What better way to teach acceptance and tolerance than to put a transgender character front and center in a main story? The story could detail the struggles that a transgender person in the world of Tyria, why Symon became Sya, and how she overcomes adversity in the face of Elder Dragon threats. Dare I suggest that Sya be the one to deal the killing blow to the Elder Dragon in the next expansion?
As a straight liberal male, I salute Anet for all they’ve done to connect with all types of players. Good job MO and Colin (if you still lurk our forums)!
Sry but no i draw the line at lesbians if anet adds transgender npc to party i dont buy the next expansion ^^
Sry but no i draw the line at lesbians if anet adds transgender npc to party i dont buy the next expansion ^^
You say that now but when Anet adds the next relationship between a female Charr and a female Asura you’ll wish for the latter. Or maybe you wont. I suppose that depends.
