Guild Wars 2

I think they are just using the same UI but the cost seems to be 0.

I’m with you on this one; I would like an answer here too especially since I’ve thrown away over 300 of them :P

skullmount.1758:

Well it does say “Transmutation Stones can be converted at a three-to-one rate”, so maybe we don’t have to convert them?
I first read it the other way around, I thought each stone (thought those were the lvl80 ones) would be worth 3 charges, but now I see its the lvl<=79 ones and its three of those to one charge. Really disappointed with those now. Should have been 2:1 at the very least, not 3:1 ><.

Yup. ArenaNet obviously doesn’t want any Sub-80s to look good!

I’m with Jski. It looks like it’s the same screen to equip armor as it is to dye it. Dying is free. Only charged transmutation stones if you choose an armor you aren’t currently wearing.

Xalugami.2096:

From all of the images it looks like changing Dyes will total 0 Transmutation Charges every time, you just still need to click Apply to set the changes.

I do believe you are correct, sir. I hope it’s the case for all dyes. I’d hate to see the current system change.

Colour changing will stay at 0 charges as it is now, only the armor change will cost charges as it is now.

Xalugami.2096:

From all of the images it looks like changing Dyes will total 0 Transmutation Charges every time, you just still need to click Apply to set the changes.

Good catch. That’s a small relief, then.

I plan to clear a few zones just to be safe, but I imagine they’d have mentioned it if they intended to remove the transmutation stones from normal gameplay just like they mentioned dyes being removed.

Well that’s disheartening but thanks for the clarification, I reread it and see now. Do you think transmutation charges will remain the same price as crystals (5/200)?

Mungrul.9358:

Look, I have no problem with a developer’s need to make money, but there are better, less exploitative ways of doing it.

Hell, I’d even be happier if they charged for the initial copy of the skin to the wardrobe as long as every subsequent use was free.

Well, DCUO can get away with that because they also charge you for monthly access and thus they are making their money on subscriptions.

Since this game has no sub fee, they have to make their cash shop stuff single use for cosmetics or else raise the prices to be around $30/skin in order to make the same amount of revenue.

Not too happy with the 3/1 ratio conversion for transmutation stones/crystals. I’ll lose a lot of stones with this and be kitten from the git-go. Also, no doubt transmutation charges will not be dropping from doing the cities. Now, you can get more stones by doing the city completions. I’m guessing this will no longer be possible.

Gnat.9405:

Well that’s disheartening but thanks for the clarification, I reread it and see now. Do you think transmutation charges will remain the same price as crystals (5/200)?

Knowing Anet, probably.

They said the stones will convert to charges 3:1 and the crystals will convert to charges 1:1.

I’m guessing we’ll get 1 charge per map cleared, since we currently get 3 stones.

Clarification would be nice though.

I think they need to give us a solid way to earn charges through game play (ie, 2 guaranteed for clearing lvl 70+ maps or something). Rather than having to purchase more from the gemstore, specially considering nothing was mentioned about cost for those.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think they need to give us a solid way to earn charges through game play (ie, 2 guaranteed for clearing lvl 70+ maps or something). Rather than having to purchase more from the gemstore, specially considering nothing was mentioned about cost for those.

They will probably still have a chance to drop from the dailies, though to be honest I only ever get a Mystic Coin, some luck, and a Karma bottle so I’m still not convinced that other things actually drop from the daily meta.

mtpelion.4562:

Well, DCUO can get away with that because they also charge you for monthly access and thus they are making their money on subscriptions.

DCUO started as a subscription MMO, but went free-to-play on November the 2nd, 2011.

sinzer.4018:

Tom Gore.4035:

That’s not the real question. The real question is will the stones still be dropping like crazy from daily chests. My guess is no.

That doesn’t change anything for lvl 80 characters, of course, since the crystals don’t drop either.

The crystals do drop from doing the daily. It’s on a 0.26% chance according to the wiki.

I must be exceedingly unlucky as I don’t think I have gotten any crystals and Ive done most dailies since introduced. Stones on the other hand I have had maybe 10.

mtpelion.4562:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think they need to give us a solid way to earn charges through game play (ie, 2 guaranteed for clearing lvl 70+ maps or something). Rather than having to purchase more from the gemstore, specially considering nothing was mentioned about cost for those.

They will probably still have a chance to drop from the dailies, though to be honest I only ever get a Mystic Coin, some luck, and a Karma bottle so I’m still not convinced that other things actually drop from the daily meta.

lol that’s all i ever get too

I hope they give us charges for map completions and certain story rewards. Otherwise there’s no real incentive for doing map completes.

Mungrul.9358:

mtpelion.4562:

Well, DCUO can get away with that because they also charge you for monthly access and thus they are making their money on subscriptions.

DCUO started as a subscription MMO, but went free-to-play on November the 2nd, 2011.

Unrelated question, just because I’m curious: Are they are real F2P, or a “second class citizens can kind of play for free like SWTOR”?

I have always wondered why the transmutation stones/crystals are offered in packs of 5 and not 6, we all got 6 pieces of armor….

SallyStitches.4096:

Key farm, you’ll get crystals aplenty.

What is this key farming? Not the first time I’ve seen it mentioned… but still no idea what it entails…

That’s so you’ll buy 2 packs for a set of armor. It’s all about money.

That would be logic if you would get Transmutation Charge were we used to get transmutation stone and crystal. Anyway, by this time i have a stack of 200 transmutation stone and about 25 transmutation crystal. So i would get 91 transmutation charge. Enough for almost anything i could dream of transmute.

Key farming is making a character, running it up high enough to complete the personal story to level 10 because that’s the instance that awards a BLC key. Rinse and repeat.

I hope they will keep them as rewards for completing maps, especially the cities. They removed the ability to get crafting supplies and armor/weapons from map clearing a city because they aren’t combat zones. If they remove the stones as a reward what would they replace them with?

Keeping it the way it is now, only giving a charge per city would be perfect. It would allow new players to get access to and try out this system.

Yea I’m with you here OP. As I level I like to change my looks as I discover new gear. Ooh, cool new chest piece from karma vendor…now I need to get new shoulders and legs to match. That’s 2 stones. No biggie. But with the new system it’ll cost us 6 stones (2 charges). And the new wardrobe system only encourages us to make changes more often.

I think the conversion should be 1:1 stones and 1:3 crystals, with us getting a single charge per stone and 3 charges per crystal. This way sub-80’s aren’t penalized and all those stones we’ve accrued via map exploration won’t lose 2/3 their value. Not to mention that this update is going to have people doing all kinds of armor xmuting.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SallyStitches.4096:

Key farm, you’ll get crystals aplenty.

What is this key farming? Not the first time I’ve seen it mentioned… but still no idea what it entails…

Creating a new human character and doing the first few personal story quests can net you a guaranteed Black Lion Key every 25 minutes or so.

mtpelion.4562:

Unrelated question, just because I’m curious: Are they are real F2P, or a “second class citizens can kind of play for free like SWTOR”?

Real free-to-play. I’m a little hazy on it as I haven’t played for a while, but they release hefty content-based updates as paid-for “DLC”. The core game is completely free.

Either way I am not using stones anymore, and have a 20+ of the crystals.

No reason they couldn’t have made transmutation stones/crystals a 1/1 ratio conversion.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Key farming is making a character, running it up high enough to complete the personal story to level 10 because that’s the instance that awards a BLC key. Rinse and repeat.

Thank you for clarifying.

I think the system overall is good, but i think it should have been one cost per unlock instead of everytime you transmute
Im assuming some items will have zero transmutation cost? like HOM skins, achievement skins, etc.
Also kind of bad for gem store items and weapon skins and what not. Its like buy it now! and then pay for transmuation charge.

unless they are going to start putting charges in like chests or random rewards for certain content, and then make gem store charges a shortcut. I could get with the that.

Anyhow, wardrobe good, but paying gems for every use of wardrobe is kinda lame.

my alts will visiting all the cities in the next days … and some other zones

I seriously doubt the new transmutation charges will be available anywhere other than the gem store. They’d lose money any other way of doing it.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I seriously doubt the new transmutation charges will be available anywhere other than the gem store. They’d lose money any other way of doing it.

You can get crystals from sources outside the gem store now, I don’t think they’ll need to change that at all.

I really don’t understand the people who are annoyed that this will cost money.

Do you honestly think Anet would be willing to sacrifice a huge chunk of sales? Transmutation crystals are more than likely their #1 selling item, and probably their highest grossing one. It’s an item that is constantly in demand.

Best to get prepared guys. What you can do is farm them until these changes go trough, I would estimate creating a new char and doing the 6 cities (including LA) should take no longer than 1-2 hours at most. Do this 1 or 2 times daily until the new changes and you should have a nice number of charges saved up.

I’m lucky I still have 300 or so stones sitting in my bank from all my map clears on all my alts.

Vol.7601:

I really don’t understand the people who are annoyed that this will cost money.

Do you honestly think Anet would be willing to sacrifice a huge chunk of sales? Transmutation crystals are more than likely their #1 selling item, and probably their highest grossing one. It’s an item that is constantly in demand.

Which, I don’t mind….. considering they are sacrificing some of their armor sales in this venture. People won’t need to buy multiples of any of the sets anymore now.

Vol.7601:

I really don’t understand the people who are annoyed that this will cost money.

Do you honestly think Anet would be willing to sacrifice a huge chunk of sales? Transmutation crystals are more than likely their #1 selling item, and probably their highest grossing one. It’s an item that is constantly in demand.

there is a return on sale, as it is, most people only use transmutation stones rarely, maybe once or twice per character per year. If each item required one unlock, people would unlock as many items as they like, or plan to use, or all of them just to collect. Essentially right now they are leasing looks, when most people would prefer to buy them.

Essentially for me, i will probably pick one look per charachter and stay there probably for months or years, in the other system i would probably work toward full unlocks. So essentially more spent, however i feel better about each purpose, because it isnt for rent till the next costume change.

so looking at my system.
they lose on profit from repeat users who swap between same sets often
they gain on people who would now unlock multiple sets instead of 1 look per charachter
they stay the same on people who keep one look forever.

Id say the profit and happiness of the consumer is greater with my system than the rent a look system.

After the update, will people be able to use map completion on alts to earn “free” transmutation charges?

(From: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-wardrobe-system/)
“If you’ve been hoarding Transmutation Stones and Crystals, don’t worry! When the Wardrobe goes live, you’ll be able to convert your them into Transmutation Charges. Transmutation Crystals can be directly converted into charges, and Transmutation Stones can be converted at a three-to-one rate.”

Based on this, completing a zone should be worth one charge. Or at least, completing a zone is worth one charge NOW. The real question is, will it be worth one charge AFTER the update?

phys.7689:

Vol.7601:

I really don’t understand the people who are annoyed that this will cost money.

Do you honestly think Anet would be willing to sacrifice a huge chunk of sales? Transmutation crystals are more than likely their #1 selling item, and probably their highest grossing one. It’s an item that is constantly in demand.

there is a return on sale, as it is, most people only use transmutation stones rarely, maybe once or twice per character per year. If each item required one unlock, people would unlock as many items as they like, or plan to use, or all of them just to collect. Essentially right now they are leasing looks, when most people would prefer to buy them.

Essentially for me, i will probably pick one look per charachter and stay there probably for months or years, in the other system i would probably work toward full unlocks. So essentially more spent, however i feel better about each purpose, because it isnt for rent till the next costume change.

so looking at my system.
they lose on profit from repeat users who swap between same sets often
they gain on people who would now unlock multiple sets instead of 1 look per charachter
they stay the same on people who keep one look forever.

Id say the profit and happiness of the consumer is greater with my system than the rent a look system.

On the other hand, I’m looking forward to collecting and unlocking more looks now, which I can do for free—and that might result in me finding something I like so much, I want to spend for the charges to transmute.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Transmutation-stones-for-exploration/first#post3809108

Mungrul.9358:

Great, they’ve finally implemented what a lot of people have been pining after for ages, yet they’ve also cynically monetised it.
This system and its equivalents are COMPLETELY FREE in other MMOs such as DCUO.
They almost had me back and playing again with this, but they had to go and screw it up with greed.

Pretty much my thoughts on this too.

So… GW2 gets a proper transmogrifying system, and one that should have been free for all to use…But instead they find a way to monetize it in a way that’s probably going to be worst than it is currently.

Remind me again why people are putting up with this? I’ve seen a few posts here comparing this to DCUO, and saying that DCUO can get away with it because the game has a subscription fee…

Yet..that doesn’t really apply. Because you can still use the transmoging system in DCUO for free, without being a subscriber to their VIP plan. Same with Lotro. Same with TERA, and even the same with Diablo 3, which has no cash shop period and is free to play online.

So..remind me again why it’s okay for GW2 to charge for something that all their competitors are doing for free?

Look, I love the new skin system for GW2, I do…But I’ll be honestly impressed if they offer free Transmutation Charges left and right after this goes live. If it turns out that you get a charge for free with every daily chest you open ,than great! That’s a fine compromise. Sure, it takes a bit longer to transmog the armor you want, but it’s still a nice enough compromise.

But seeing as in their Dye blog that Dyes will no longer be dropping in the world kind of paints a picture of the direction this is going, and that’s a shame. GW2 has a lot of very cool looking skins in the game, and sadly, now alot of people aren’t going to be able to be able to even use the vast majority of them, since it’s going to constantly cost Transmutation charges.

I agree with what a previous poster said: If they have to monetize this in some way, than just sell the skins on the store (while also allowing players to earn and unlock them in game as well).

GW2 is quickly becoming less of a Free to Play game with a single purchase price where everything can be unlocked in game, to a game where everything is locked behind a pay-wall in the Gemstore.

It’s changes like these that people should be voicing their opinion on and distaste for, like the forums did when Anet tried to see the Human Tier armor in the Gemstore as a “Redesign”. They listened then, they may listen now.

If not, than as much as I hate to use the phrase, we will be starting a slippery slope of slipperiness.

I may just start map clearing on my Guardian to try and collect a ton of stones. I’ve always needed an excuse to do map completion. Would be nice to know that you can get transmutation charges in the future from map completion.

People may get a few transmutation charges from stones/crystals now, but they will quickly use them all up playing with looks in the wardrobe and then they’ll all be down to buying more from the store.

Just mule the stuff you like. You can’t possibly like all the armor right? You gotta find sleazy ways of not paying them. lol. And do more farming too. And play the TP.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Right you did infer not imply. My apologies. Regardless, while I agree there would be some exotic armor combinations, I personally think it should stay separate. Now they can add heavier or lighter looking armor to the types, that’s a different story, but as for the whole shebang, I don’t think so.

I used the incorrect verb, it should have been implied as you say. I stand corrected.

Yes, adding more variety to the already existing armors would be even better. I browse the Lion Trade often and I find that many of the armors are the exact same, even if they have a completely different name, and a lot of which aren’t (in my opinion) very appealing. It’s the same with weapons as well. Perhaps adding more options in style/types (light, medium, heavy) to each profession could be another way to go about it.

Celtic Lady.3729:

People may get a few transmutation charges from stones/crystals now, but they will quickly use them all up playing with looks in the wardrobe and then they’ll all be down to buying more from the store.

You can play with your looks for free. You have to spend charges to enact the look you want though.

Blade Syphon.4325:

GW2 is quickly becoming less of a Free to Play game with a single purchase price where everything can be unlocked in game, to a game where everything is locked behind a pay-wall in the Gemstore.

Here’s another little gem that ArenaNet are happy for their customers to forget:
Guild Wars 2 is NOT free-to-play. You pay for the initial game. On release, it was a substantial amount compared to other games.
The reason they don’t correct people?
Because if their customers believe it’s free-to-play, they’re more likely to accept free-to-play monetisation tactics.

Another interesting and disturbing article I read recently centred on research that revealed adding just one layer of abstraction between real world currency and in-game items results in most players not understanding the monetary value of items they buy in game.
In layman’s terms?
Gems are there to disguise the cost of items you buy in the gem store so you’re more likely to spend more money.
Dollars mean something to punters.
Gems don’t.

The article also highlighted that this tactic is more successful when implemented against younger consumers.

In other words, it was explicitly detailing how developers should exploit the naiveté of younger consumers.