Guild Wars 2

I get it. The “Treasure Hunter” collection is supposed to be hard to complete. But to what extent? Now of course I could buy all the exotic items needed to finish the collection, but that is beside the point I want to make.

To get “All Seeing”, one must kill Lyssa and hope the RNG gods smile greatly upon you (or, do it the lazy way, and shell out 100g on the TP). But getting to kill Lyssa has become a challenge in itself. Why? Temple Defense. Now in the days before Megaservers, this wasn’t an issue. I guest over to another server where it’s up, boom, done. But on Megaservers, I have to wait the 2 hours after Lyssa dies for the event to come up and retake it, and hope to GOD that some idiot doesn’t successfully defend the temple. And if someone does, I get to wait another hour (at least) for the kitten event to come up again, and I get to hope that the freaking temple isn’t successfully defended AGAIN! I get lucky sometimes and find someone on another IP, and I can taxi over to fight her, but barring that, it’s an endless waiting and hoping game.

I am certain the developers of the collection system did not envision it to go this way. I urge them to rethink how this works, and change it. Perhaps make temple defense give you access to the chest? Perhaps make the defense event happen more often? (30 minutes?) Perhaps make the defense event harder each time it spawns?

Again, I realize that the collection is supposed to be difficult to obtain, but get rid of the roadblocks to even ATTEMPT to loot the required items.

Thank you.

Yeah, I’ve had similar frustrations with this collection. Pretty much given up on it for now for the reasons you stated among many.

Another thing: I’ve resorted to begging people to stop fighting and let the temple fall. Even explaining to them that the rewards are 100x better if they let it fall, they still defend it.

I’ve also heard rumors that TP sleuths have been buying up “All Seeing”s and have been purposely keeping Lyssa defended, so that people can’t fight Lyssa, which in turn drives up the cost of All Seeing

I am sure that neither of these scenarios were envisioned by the developers….

The fact that the temples have to fall to get anything done is just all around bad design.

Whatever can be gainedfrom those temples should be handed out for defending the temple, not attacking them.

Arkinos.7245:

The fact that the temples have to fall to get anything done is just all around bad design.

This.

It’s just plain crazy that there are competing rewards in PvE. That you need something to fail in order to succeed at something. It’s counter intuitive and requires a universal level of knowledge that isn’t reasonable to expect. It would be fine with a coordinated group event like a dungeon. It’s probably even ok in a new and very active zone that requires leadership for zone-wide events anyway.

But in open world PvE in these legacy areas it is just a terrible idea, and creates nothing but unnecessary conflict and confusion.

Yea the same rewards for taking it should be given out for defending aswell, Ofcourse you would have to make the fights equaly hard then aswell

What I find ironic is that in the past ANet has banned people for ‘exploiting’ events.

If you fail a particular event deliberately because you want to repeat it or don’t progress it because your farming it.

And yet here we are with ANet forcing people into similar situations to achieve this collection.

Linken.6345:

Yea the same rewards for taking it should be given out for defending aswell, Ofcourse you would have to make the fights equaly hard then aswell

Hmm could be something like an escalating defense event.

First defense event remains the same as now.
Then it gets tougher. Maybe they start attacking the seals as well and if any of those fail it all fails.
If that is still successfully defended then in addition to the previous stuff the priestess also shows up and at this point the event(s) can progress into a similar fashion to the assault event(s).

The time between the escalating events should be much shorter.

Or. You know. It could have to do with the grandmaster trait (no. XIII) every player in Tyria needs – and gets by either completing either (i) the defence event or the (ii) attack event.

TL;DR people just want to get their grandmaster trait.

Peileii.9845:

Another thing: I’ve resorted to begging people to stop fighting and let the temple fall. Even explaining to them that the rewards are 100x better if they let it fall, they still defend it.

I’ve seen this over and over again in map chat throughout Orr. It just never seems to occur to the “let the temple fall!!!” crowd that not everyone is solely or primarily motivated by rewards, and that there are other reasons why some might enjoy doing defense events. They all seem to think that the defenders must either be stoopid noobs who don’t know any better or trolls who want to tick them off. Believe it or not, explaining that “the rewards are 100x better” is about as motivating to some people as explaining that “the rutabagas are much fresher” as a reason to switch grocery stores.

And you think others have not the same problem with other items?
What makes this here any special now?

Like that Mole Manifest, or Sam or the Orrian Amulet thing.
These 3 are much more of a problem, because from 2 of 3 their dynamic events are broken since the implemention of the Collection Achievements and are due to this harder to get, than it should be, what drives naturally their prices up.

Would be the events for Sam and the Manifest working as intended, people would have it easier to farm those items and prices surely would fall down a bit under approx 250 Gold to say perhaps around 150 Gold or lower.

The amulet is also not better, you either have to do the Orr Dungeon Paths to have a low chance of gettign it there, or defeat that eye of zhaitan, where I say, every big boss in Orr should have the chance to drop that amulet, not only the Eye of zhaitan, was would increase the chance of gettign it, what would result into more amulets in the trading post, what would result naturally into a lower price…which is due to flippers currently always moving between like 350-700 Gold like what is insane and out of reason for what you get as reward from the achievement.

What Anet should hopefully add to the rewards of the future are also Chest Rewards, which give you Exotic Accessoires of your Choice, like we have from the Collections also a Chest, that lets you choose an exotic collection Weapon of your choice (theoretically two, the other is kind of bugged ,says you can choose, but in fact is random)

These kind of chest rewards need to exist for those exotic accessoires also too and it would make gettign those accessoires also easier and would make the prices fall down to a normal level.

I some how managed to find most of the temple amulet just for farming dragonite ore or trying to get master traits for my Nth alt. The treasure hunter achievement is too expensive for me so I just sold it though.

I didn’t really get the eye of zhaitan or ogre wars one because I dont’ really do it for no reason.

My suggestion is to just park an alt there and login from time to time. The main problem is the pre events no one really do. I actaully do the pre events just to get my traits, so it is worth it for me. I’m not sure you’ll want to do the pre events over and over again with limited or no help just to get that achievement.

Most of the desired collections have become an utter joke. It really makes me worry about how the devs are going to be adding even more. Whats ridiculous is that items can easily be added to additional containers. They see the pricing and do nothing to alleviate the problem they caused.

As has been said since near the beginning of the game, the defend should give the daily “bouncy” chest and chest on the ground the same as the capture.

Welp, All Seeing dropped from Lyssa for me this morning. I’m down to 1 drop to go (Commissar’s Manifesto). My point still stands though. I have several friends trying to complete this collection as well, and they are expressing the same frustrations as me. For now though, I’m off to do my /happydance

Peileii.9845:

Welp, All Seeing dropped from Lyssa for me this morning. I’m down to 1 drop to go (Commissar’s Manifesto). My point still stands though. I have several friends trying to complete this collection as well, and they are expressing the same frustrations as me. For now though, I’m off to do my /happydance

did you actually get all the other jewel from drop? quite some accomplishment if you did.

I bought all the ones that were less than 10 gold on the TP. The rest were all drops. Sam dropped about a 6 weeks ago, and Rhendak’s Signet, Pendant of Arah, All Seeing, and Rotbeard’s treasure were all in the last 2 weeks. A couple of pieces I already had on alts, so they auto-added.

On a positive note, the Dredge Commissar event seems to not get bugged anymore. Thank you for >finally< fixing this, Anet. Now only if he would give up his treasure…

I just farmed gold (like all 2000+) and bought everything, wasn’t worth dealing with RNG, buggy events and wasted time waiting for events to spawn.

I certainly have (had) the money to buy everything I needed. In fact, buying the manifesto would be pocket change to me. But, call me old fashioned. I like playing for my rewards rather than buying them. But I certainly understand your frustration fishball. I’m probably going to give Commissar maybe 1 more week before I give up and buy it.

Peileii.9845:

Now in the days before Megaservers, this wasn’t an issue. I guest over to another server where it’s up, boom, done. But on Megaservers, I have to wait the 2 hours after Lyssa dies for the event to come up and retake it, and hope to GOD that some idiot doesn’t successfully defend the temple. And if someone does, I get to wait another hour (at least) for the kitten event to come up again, and I get to hope that the freaking temple isn’t successfully defended AGAIN! I get lucky sometimes and find someone on another IP, and I can taxi over to fight her, but barring that, it’s an endless waiting and hoping game.

You’d have to be highly self-absorbed person to call someone else an idiot for playing the game the way it’s supposed to be played. Or do I need to remind you that successfully defending the temple unlocks a Grandmaster Trait? And even if it didn’t, calling someone else a name because they’re playing to win rather than intentionally failing is behavior of the poorest quality.

Orpheal.8263:

-snip-
The amulet is also not better, you either have to do the Orr Dungeon Paths to have a low chance of gettign it there, or defeat that eye of zhaitan, where I say, every big boss in Orr should have the chance to drop that amulet, not only the Eye of zhaitan, was would increase the chance of gettign it, what would result into more amulets in the trading post, what would result naturally into a lower price…which is due to flippers currently always moving between like 350-700 Gold like what is insane and out of reason for what you get as reward from the achievement.
…

Someone pinged the Pendant of Arah during a Balth assault once, and reacted with supreme joy once told of the TP price. COuld have been a troll, but it may also drop during that event.

I think that there is some bad game design going on here. Setting players up to be at odds with each other over completing vs failing an event seems counter to the supposed cooperative nature of GW2’s design philosophy.

Must admit that its hard to sympathize with someone who calls others idiots for trying to defend in an event designed to be defended though.

After being told the benefits of fighting Lyssa vs. defending the temple in say chat, map chat, and whisper…. knowing that you will STILL get the trait, you will STILL get access to the armor merchant, you will end up with MORE karma (shield events), a bonus chest, and a ground chest that has a chance of dropping a 100 gold item, and you STILL decide to defend the temple? Yea, you’re an idiot. I stand by what I said.

It’s like having the option of buying a junker 1980s car or a brand new car with all the features for the SAME price, if you’ll only wait 15 minutes, and you choose the junker car, after being TOLD all you have to do is wait 15 kitten minutes… you’re an idiot.

Ashen.2907:

I think that there is some bad game design goinon here. Setting players up to be at odds with each other over completing vs failing an event seems counter to the supposed cooperative nature of GW2’s design philosophy.

Must admit that its hard to sympathize with someone who calls others idiots for trying to defend in an event designed to be defended though.

Agree entirely – no one should be called an idiot or insulted for playing the game as it should be,

Peileii.9845:

After being told the benefits of fighting Lyssa vs. defending the temple in say chat, map chat, and whisper…. knowing that you will STILL get the trait, you will STILL get access to the armor merchant, you will end up with MORE karma (shield events), a bonus chest, and a ground chest that has a chance of dropping a 100 gold item, and you STILL decide to defend the temple? Yea, you’re an idiot. I stand by what I said.

It’s like having the option of buying a junker 1980s car or a brand new car with all the features for the SAME price, if you’ll only wait 15 minutes, and you choose the junker car, after being TOLD all you have to do is wait 15 kitten minutes… you’re an idiot.

Nope. You are completely wrong.

If you had to choose between 1) enjoying playing the game for 15 minutes or 2) standing around waiting (perhaps when you only have 15 minutes remaining in your play session) which would you choose. You are asking for others to choose option 2 or be called an idiot. I, for example, dislike the Lyssa fight. I suppose if you paid me real world money (15 minutes of my time is worth quite a bit to me) then we could talk.

Is that brand new car a 1965 Shelby Mustang (using a ’60s reference rather than 80s because that is where my automobile interest lies but I know some who have similar attitudes about some 80s vehicles) ? If I could get such, even as a junker, for the price of a brand new vehicle I would be all over it. Last one I saw auctioned off was not at all a junker and went for over $900k. I wouldnt expect a restorable junker to go for less than $100k. I am not aware of any brand new mustangs going for anywhere near that price (and the new model would include all sorts of features not available in the ’65)

Maybe, just maybe, beauty (and desirability, and even fun) is in the eye of the beholder.

Peileii.9845:

After being told the benefits of fighting Lyssa vs. defending the temple in say chat, map chat, and whisper…. knowing that you will STILL get the trait, you will STILL get access to the armor merchant, you will end up with MORE karma (shield events), a bonus chest, and a ground chest that has a chance of dropping a 100 gold item, and you STILL decide to defend the temple? Yea, you’re an idiot.

Or maybe – just maybe – they were out of time and their choice boiled down to success and getting the trait or allowing it to fail and logging off empty handed. Or maybe not. Maybe they were just tired of waiting around ML and were eager to get it done and get on to other things. Either way, calling someone an names for attempting to succeed at an in-game task is belligerent, petulant, and unnecessary.

Peileii.9845:

I stand by what I said.

I’ll bet you do. And that says a lot about the kind of person you are.

While the OP is slightly biased about this whole thing because of what they want out of it, I’m somewhat having the same conclusion about the Treasure Hunter objects. There really does need to be some alternative way of acquiring them than a successful chain of events. Along with a revisitation on the RNG odds of acquiring them.

I’d say make the odds better for a successful event, and low for either a defense event (out of bonus chest in addition to the rare) and/or from enemies in the area where the event(s) take place. Such as enemies in the Cathedral dropping the special accessories, or dredge near the comissar dropping the Manifest . . .

The only problem with this collection, like most collections, is the crappy rewards.

In no way is the chest that provides greens and blues worth the cost of acquiring these items.

If I ever get one of these drops, I will sell it. You would be crazy to do anything else with it.

Yea crazy that you want to find and complete your collections yourself hu.

Linken.6345:

Yea crazy that you want to find and complete your collections yourself hu.

. . . yeah.

It’s like you’d have to be crazy to expect one try at the Mystic Forge to give you a Precursor . . . and yet . . .

Its not only about Treasure Hunter, though collections sure have made a flawed system even more obvious.

You should never get less reward for defending something than attacking something.
The incentive to partake in a defense event should be the same as in the attacking event.
Ergo → same bosses, chests, rewards.

But because of the way most defense events are designed, and the limited personnel anet has, thats not gonna happen.

So… starting “attack” temple events on a timer would be the easiest solution. Making it more predictable for achievement hunters and still giving those that enjoy defense events, or just plain all events, the opportunity to finish those events without getting yelled at.

I entered this map and felt sorry for the people begging to let the temple fall. They were just getting trolled. I tried to joke around and cheer everyone up but you could feel the rage and frustration. So I just left with no intent to come back there. Sad.

People who do the def despite better knowledge event are obviously selfish people who want to deny people the chance for the desired loot.

Yasi.9065:

So… starting “attack” temple events on a timer would be the easiest solution. Making it more predictable for achievement hunters and still giving those that enjoy defense events, or just plain all events, the opportunity to finish those events without getting yelled at.

To me that would be yet another betrayal of the promise of a dynamic world. They did this when they put the world bosses on timers, divorcing them from the map meta.

Tequatl, for example, was supposed to be the culmination of efforts by players to defeat risen all over the map, causing the big boss to appear to reinforce the risen assault. He was the reward for player engagement with the whole map. Now it doesn’t matter if the risen are running rampant elsewhere or not. Teq will appear regardless, just because it is time, not because it has any relation to the map’s story.

Doing this to the temple bosses would send the wrong message, I think, especially from what we know so far about HoT. Players need to learn to accept dynamic event chains and accept that every event success or failure will change the outcome of the chain. It was designed to be unpredictable, and that was the exciting thing about the concept when GW2 was introduced.

BrettM.9062:

Tequatl, for example, was supposed to be the culmination of efforts by players to defeat risen all over the map, causing the big boss to appear to reinforce the risen assault. He was the reward for player engagement with the whole map. Now it doesn’t matter if the risen are running rampant elsewhere or not. Teq will appear regardless, just because it is time, not because it has any relation to the map’s story.

Tequatl is a terrible example. It was always on a timer, the timer just wasn’t synchronized across all instances.

Malediktus.3740:

People who do the def despite better knowledge event are obviously selfish people who want to deny people the chance for the desired loot.

Never have read anything more ridiculous of you.
So now are people, who play the game like intend selfish?
God, how awful and pathetic this kind of attidude is, really-.

Selfish are those people, which want to see an ingame event against the game design intention consistantly fail, so that they just can get “personally” better/more rewards and deny for this for pther players the experience the game how it is intended to play, only due to Anets game design currently sadly favoring the true selfish loot orientated with this sad game design over the players, which play the game rather for fun and not mainly only for maximizing their personal loot gain and general profits.

Its obvious, that this kind of game design is very poor and that it needs so drastic changes to bring back the game finally onto its right path, where doing together events in this game successfully should always be WAY ALOT more rewarding, than failing the event. failing events shouldn’t be rewarding, as this kind of “rewards” just boosts this kind of real selfish immorale player behaviour, like your attidude here day per day per day again.

Failing Events should reward players maximum only with Exp, Karma and Gold (much lesser than being successful)
Chest Rewards like World Boss Chests should always be given out only for doing events in the game successfully and that only to those players, which actually contributed to the events and did actually help enough to make that event a success.

Orpheal.8263:

Malediktus.3740:

People who do the def despite better knowledge event are obviously selfish people who want to deny people the chance for the desired loot.

Never have read anything more ridiculous of you.
So now are people, who play the game like intend selfish?
God, how awful and pathetic this kind of attidude is, really-.

There is no other way to get this item other than buying it from other players, so if you deny players the option to earn the item you are obviously being selfish.

Arkinos.7245:

The fact that the temples have to fall to get anything done is just all around bad design.

Whatever can be gainedfrom those temples should be handed out for defending the temple, not attacking them.

So a good design is something that is easy to farm, not a game that provides an overall story arch that makes sense? Good to know.

This place is just unbelievable at times.

Malediktus.3740:

People who do the def despite better knowledge event are obviously selfish people who want to deny people the chance for the desired loot.

Group A wants something that’s at odds with what Group B wants.
Group B wants something that’s at odds with what Group A wants.

The difference between the two is one is petulantly calling the other group a bunch of selfish idiots and the other is not.

darkace.8925:

Malediktus.3740:

People who do the def despite better knowledge event are obviously selfish people who want to deny people the chance for the desired loot.

Group A wants something that’s at odds with what Group B wants.
Group B wants something that’s at odds with what Group A wants.

The difference between the two is one is petulantly calling the other group a bunch of selfish idiots and the other is not.

Def event gives nothing that you cant also get from attacking. So its obvious the group who wants a chance for allseeing eye is right.

This is so annoying. I was camping at Lyssa temple and def event starts but 3 people keep doing the event besides getting asked to let it fall. I think the def event needs to be much harder so 3 people cant troll the dozens who want to have the chance for allseeing eye.
One of the players even boasted in map chat about what he was doing. Whats worse it was a player with 16k AP, so its clearly not a case of “I only have 15min to play per day”

How is this event right if the spawning of lyssa is a fail condition? shouldn’t Lyssa spawning be the right course?

Defence events should just be made to get progressively more difficult after every successful defence, so as to keep the rotation of events more varied.

Things like this have been happening since the release, but the developers are too focused on developing things no one really wants (like NPE) and which only introduce further complications, instead of giving us a few solid fixpacks that would deal with issues which were pointed out as early as the betas.

They seriously need to assign a couple of guys who are resigned to fixing like one or two bugs in the existing content every single day and deliver an update every couple of weeks until the game quality is improved and consistent across all the maps and instances.

Unfortunately, I fear the expansion will only further push these “minor” issues down the priority list in favor of delivering new content. It’s depressing, really.

Malediktus.3740:

People who do the def despite better knowledge event are obviously selfish people who want to deny people the chance for the desired loot.

People have already beaten on this point a lot, but I’ll try and do it a different way. The people who are doing the defense event, just because it’s there, are not being greedy. They are taking their fun where they can find it.

You, who are looking for a specific item, are the greedy one, since there are probably other items with similar stats but won’t complete the collection log (or the specific skin, if you’re looking for that).

If this is the only way to find the item, I don’t begrudge you for that, but at least direct your anger at the right source. Other players aren’t the ones who neglected to put exotic gear in the defense chest, it was the programmers, and they ought to fix it if this is as big a problem as it seems to be. Defending the temple should be just as big a deal as claiming it to begin with.

Malediktus.3740:

Def event gives nothing that you cant also get from attacking.

You’ve got a bit of a blind spot there. You seem to think that getting something — loot, trait, or whatever — is the only possible motive for doing an event, and getting more somethings is always better. You seem to think that only trolls could possibly be perverse enough not to share that motive. Well, Horatio, there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

BrettM.9062:

Malediktus.3740:

Def event gives nothing that you cant also get from attacking.

You’ve got a bit of a blind spot there. You seem to think that getting something — loot, trait, or whatever — is the only possible motive for doing an event, and getting more somethings is always better. You seem to think that only trolls could possibly be perverse enough not to share that motive. Well, Horatio, there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

There is nothing special on the defense event. So even if you dont play for the rewards you miss out on a boss fight with unique mechanics not found anywhere else in the game.

Peileii.9845:

I get it. The “Treasure Hunter” collection is supposed to be hard to complete. But to what extent? Now of course I could buy all the exotic items needed to finish the collection, but that is beside the point I want to make.

To get “All Seeing”, one must kill Lyssa and hope the RNG gods smile greatly upon you (or, do it the lazy way, and shell out 100g on the TP). But getting to kill Lyssa has become a challenge in itself. Why? Temple Defense. Now in the days before Megaservers, this wasn’t an issue. I guest over to another server where it’s up, boom, done. But on Megaservers, I have to wait the 2 hours after Lyssa dies for the event to come up and retake it, and hope to GOD that some idiot doesn’t successfully defend the temple. And if someone does, I get to wait another hour (at least) for the kitten event to come up again, and I get to hope that the freaking temple isn’t successfully defended AGAIN! I get lucky sometimes and find someone on another IP, and I can taxi over to fight her, but barring that, it’s an endless waiting and hoping game.

I am certain the developers of the collection system did not envision it to go this way. I urge them to rethink how this works, and change it. Perhaps make temple defense give you access to the chest? Perhaps make the defense event happen more often? (30 minutes?) Perhaps make the defense event harder each time it spawns?

Again, I realize that the collection is supposed to be difficult to obtain, but get rid of the roadblocks to even ATTEMPT to loot the required items.

Thank you.

That’s not even the worst one to get. Pendant of Arah, Sam, and Commissar’s Manifesto are all harder to obtain imo. They’re also much more expensive.

I do agree that they need to do something about folks defending the Lyssa temple—it’s very frustrating for others that need to kill Lyssa.

Malediktus.3740:

There is nothing special on the defense event. So even if you dont play for the rewards you miss out on a boss fight with unique mechanics not found anywhere else in the game.

The defense event does keep the statues turned off, though.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Malediktus.3740:

There is nothing special on the defense event. So even if you dont play for the rewards you miss out on a boss fight with unique mechanics not found anywhere else in the game.

The defense event does keep the statues turned off, though.

So does recapping it after defense event failed. I never saw someone complaining about the statues anyway tbh. So a few min with statues on wont hurt anyone.