Guild Wars 2

So, I know Anet reduced the drop rate after that one patch that accidentally made them drop all the time. Did they maybe to go overboard on the reduction? Unid dyes are 15 silver per at the moment. That’s roughly triple from what they were BEFORE that patch that increased the drop rate a ton.

Are they meant to be so expensive?

I’ve noticed they drop more frequently in lower level zones, however looking at gw2spidy demand is FAR exceeding supply with a dramatic dropoff in supply around Nov 5th through Nov 12th. However the volume of trades has steadily increased. It looks like the dyes are being listed and bought up immediately.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/20323

Now one thing to keep in mind is that they are used as a component in the legendary staff, The Bifrost (need 250 for Gift of Color).

With roughly 5000 supply at 15s each, that’s 750g. Could someone be manipulating the Unid Dye market? (Note: 5000 Unid Dyes would be enough to make only 20 Bifrost legendaries – TWENTY worldwide.

I know I’ve been hanging on to my dyes rather than listing them. I imagine many others are also.

Actually it’s not 5x that it was originally.

The decrease in drop rate was a 5x nerf respecitvely from the original rate.

was getting 7/8 in orr events in 2/3 hours but this was when they were being done at that rate I really dont see a problem with getting them
get a good guild group together and go farm

For the most part, I’d say “So what” except that they’re an ingredient for crafting, not simple fluff.

Still, compared to the other things that go into a legendary, this doesn’t seem too too bad.

Ironically, it may be that sPvP will be a good way to get them. Seems like they’re in 1/3 of the chests, and with the daily quests, glory boosters are so plentiful.

I notice the decrease in dye drops, and I also noticed prices skyrocket aswell, they went from 2s to 15s. I also noticed Exotic Staff prices went up aswell. Could be players need more, and more gold for Legendaries, etc, so greed is setting in. AnEt really should think about making more coin drops and less vendor trash, instead of worrying about coin sinking everything in game.

I think they were slightly heavy-handed myself, though i did get a nice one tonight that will fetch me 2g, but that’s the first rare colored dye i found in weeks. If i am lucky i find 1 a day nowadays, quite bad droprate imo ;(

Still getting 4 – 5 dyes per day with 0 MF. Prices increase due to supply is way lesser then demand. We used to have “farmers” but they got banned.

Dye drop rate seems to be the same as it was prior to the ‘buff’ but now that we have no/less bots, the dye prices will soar.

Buy now or regret later.

Same goes for ectos and gems.

I’ve found four unidentified dyes in the last week and a half. I was getting that many in a day. I wish they’d make up their minds…

I found 2 in the pass week, and I spend most of my time in WvW, all I’m getting are stuffs that would auto sell when I click the sell junk button.

I forgot to say I grind 4-5 hours a day. So getting 4 a day is normal for me.

I have played a week since the last dye drop. I’m getting angry.

i like the expensive unidentified dye,
playing low level, it’s the only drop worth selling on TP.

and yes, they do seem to drop more in low level maps, try Queensdale.

Usually always fins they drop in Queensdale or Bloodtide (I got two in 2 hours in Bloodtide last night oddly enough from the firebreathing lizardy things that I accidentally aggro during events)

I have leveled a new character through 2 starting zones today and have not had even one Unidentified Dye drop. Until they fix the drops I see zero reason to play the game. A Loot-less MMO is idiotic. Oh go run fractals you might say, no ty, if I wanted to raid for gear I would go back to the far superior raiding of WoW.

I got 3 of them yesterday, including 2 in WvW. They are more expensive on the TP due to the crackdown on bots. This is much to do about nothing.

Ualtar.5047:

I got 3 of them yesterday, including 2 in WvW. They are more expensive on the TP due to the crackdown on bots. This is much to do about nothing.

The developers have specifically stated that they implemented a reduction in Unidentified Dye drop rate. Combine that with the botting crackdown and you end up with a severely stifled supply with no significant effect on demand. This is a definite concern, because what we’re seeing right now is drastically out of alignment with the rest of the economy.

Hopefully the devs are tracking the metrics on this one and will compensate accordingly. I highly doubt they intended for Unidentified Dye supply to be as tight as it is now. More than 750g to craft a weapon, even a legendary, doesn’t seem like the intended economic situation.

Blueshield.6291:

The developers have specifically stated that they implemented a reduction in Unidentified Dye drop rate.

They specifically stated they implemented a reduction in the Unidentified Dye drop rate after making a mistake and accidentally making the drop rate much higher.

Ualtar.5047:

They specifically stated they implemented a reduction in the Unidentified Dye drop rate after making a mistake and accidentally making the drop rate much higher.

I have to assume that you didn’t read any of the remaining content in the post. I’ll put it in bullet-point format for you.

1) Supply has been drastically reduced through multiple factors.
2) Unidentified Dye prices directly determine the value of products crafted using them.
3) Those products are now accordingly valued vastly higher than other, comparable items.
4) I trust the devs to examine the metrics and adjust accordingly. It’s still worth bringing up here though.

Probably what happen, and it was a very unintelligent thing to do on Anets part. Was since Anet announced the upcoming change people bought out a TON of unidentified dyes. When I heard about it they were 2 or 3 silver a piece slowly moving up to 5 silver. If someone had a ton of gold they could buy a thousand or so and come back making HUGE profits.

You should never come out and say something is going to be dropping less, EVER. You upset the market and this is what happens.

Ualtar.5047:

I got 3 of them yesterday, including 2 in WvW. They are more expensive on the TP due to the crackdown on bots. This is much to do about nothing.

Absolutely not. I have seen zero drops of dyes in days. this is not anecdotal this is reality. I am not talking about TP price which has to do with other factors including the drop rate nerf, I am saying that I am getting nothing in terms of loot for playing the game.

I can’t recall getting one at all this week.

I save whatever i find now, these prices have become insane its not worth checking them just sell what you find asap, at 11s a pop and rising its just silly not to sell.

The whole trading post has become not worth buying from anymore..

Leveled a warrior in PvE since the “fix” from 1-72 so far. I’ve gotten 5 dyes that entire time. Nope, nothing wrong with that at all… /sarcasm

Nexon wants you to buy dye kits from the Store, guys.

Metafrank.9017:

Nexon wants you to buy dye kits from the Store, guys.

These guys are going sink the game. Loot rationing in an mmo and not a FTP game at that. I’m an mmo veteran and I have never seen anything like this.

I’ve been selling all the Unids recently. I figure its more cost effective to buy the ones i actually want off the TP instead of gambling on them.

Neb.4170:

So, I know Anet reduced the drop rate after that one patch that accidentally made them drop all the time. Did they maybe to go overboard on the reduction? Unid dyes are 15 silver per at the moment. That’s roughly triple from what they were BEFORE that patch that increased the drop rate a ton.

Are they meant to be so expensive?

Many of us think so, we think they actually broke a couple of things (because it would be REALLY bad if they did this on purpose)

The evidence is in the TP. 36 silver per glob of ecto. Yeah.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Metafrank.9017:

Nexon wants you to buy dye kits from the Store, guys.

These guys are going sink the game. Loot rationing in an mmo and not a FTP game at that. I’m an mmo veteran and I have never seen anything like this.

I am too and it’s amazingly short sighted. Trying to force people to buy from the store is not a good model at all (if this is indeed not some mistake). The delay is disheartening and leaves us to wonder and speculate which is very dangerous in itself but then again they’ve had about three weeks now since I and mine started posting about it. Long before the Nov 16th patch.

They arnt forcing you to buy from the store…

1) Buying from the store does not give you unid dyes for crafting
2) There are other ways to obtain dye, for example cooking.

What anet did to the dye drop rate is set it back, after they accidentally increased it. They arent looking to steal all your monies.

There still are areas in the game that have really good dye chances, for example escorting an npc and his cocooned friend DE has you under attack by lots of small, easily killed spiders. Good chance of a dye drop before the end of that DE.

Draygo.9473:

What anet did to the dye drop rate is set it back, after they accidentally increased it. They arent looking to steal all your monies.

I STRONGLY disagree. Abyss could be bought around 5-6 gold in September. Now it fluctuates between 14-16 gold. That’s overkill. So what if the dyes are needed to create the Bifrost? Did we really need to make that grind ever more of a treadmill? Dyes are otherwise COSMETIC items. They don’t need such a low drop rate.

I have three various low level toons I’m currently grinding, and I’m hardly seeing this “better rate” people speak of anywhere. It’s very inconsistent; for the past two weeks it’s been that I’ll have one day out of the week where I’ll have four abrupt drops in an hour or two, and then never see another dye for the rest of the week.

It needs to be fixed. There’s NO WAY it’s working as intended.

Dyes were a part of my “completionist” habits I picked for GW2. I am keen on what drop rates they had, each time. I know what they were in September. I know what they were when they broke it. I know what they are now that they’ve “fixed it.”

It doesn’t feel like fixing. It feels like rationing.

JarekCyphus.7068:

Draygo.9473:

What anet did to the dye drop rate is set it back, after they accidentally increased it. They arent looking to steal all your monies.

I STRONGLY disagree. Abyss could be bought around 5-6 gold in September. Now it fluctuates between 14-16 gold. That’s overkill. So what if the dyes are needed to create the Bifrost? Did we really need to make that grind ever more of a treadmill? Dyes are otherwise COSMETIC items. They don’t need such a low drop rate.

I have three various low level toons I’m currently grinding, and I’m hardly seeing this “better rate” people speak of anywhere. It’s very inconsistent; for the past two weeks it’s been that I’ll have one day out of the week where I’ll have four abrupt drops in an hour or two, and then never see another dye for the rest of the week.

It needs to be fixed. There’s NO WAY it’s working as intended.

The price of 15-16 g now has nothing to do with why it was 5-6 gold in september.

It was 5-6 gold in sept, because in september people had less money. Plus demand for it was lower, as people tend to go after vanity things after they complete stat related thigns

I just assume it’s also due to the rise in price of the "desired" colors, be it from more people competing to buy them, more people starting to have more money, or general inflation. I got an abyss during the headstart and decided I could use the cash to fund my characters’ crafting in the first couple of weeks. If only I had that dye to sell now!

Zid.4196:

Buy now or regret later.

Same goes for ectos and gems.

I totally regret dumping more gold into gems back when I first decided I wanted some. they were so friggin’ cheap.

Draygo.9473:

JarekCyphus.7068:

Draygo.9473:

What anet did to the dye drop rate is set it back, after they accidentally increased it. They arent looking to steal all your monies.

I STRONGLY disagree. Abyss could be bought around 5-6 gold in September. Now it fluctuates between 14-16 gold. That’s overkill. So what if the dyes are needed to create the Bifrost? Did we really need to make that grind ever more of a treadmill? Dyes are otherwise COSMETIC items. They don’t need such a low drop rate.

I have three various low level toons I’m currently grinding, and I’m hardly seeing this “better rate” people speak of anywhere. It’s very inconsistent; for the past two weeks it’s been that I’ll have one day out of the week where I’ll have four abrupt drops in an hour or two, and then never see another dye for the rest of the week.

It needs to be fixed. There’s NO WAY it’s working as intended.

The price of 15-16 g now has nothing to do with why it was 5-6 gold in september.

It was 5-6 gold in sept, because in september people had less money. Plus demand for it was lower, as people tend to go after vanity things after they complete stat related thigns

Hardly a compelling argument, since the price of it never changed until AFTER the November fix. People selling Abyss kept the number high during the FUBAR drops BECAUSE they knew it was broken and it would eventually get fixed. Inflation does not surge the price of a drop 300% in three months, unless the game’s population is diving as fast as the post-FotM skeptics believe.

Even then, 300% is a bit much in less than a month’s time after a “fix.”

I noticed that dyes don’t drop or drop very rarery in higher lvl zones (70+) but got them at the same rate as earlier in lower zones (up to lvl 50).

It’s not that i kill more enemies or collect more plants there but in Brisban Wildlands i got 2 dyes in hour of play, when in Orr i played for 6-7 hours and got none. I think that there is mechanism to encourage farming outside Orr.

Or more simply place of dye in drop list changed (lowered) so now blue/green override it. Don’t know how exactly drop works, but i think there is rating system. Bigger score = more and better items. And since place of dyes lowered you would have to actually have lower score, or you would get blue/green that is higher on drop list. If this is case, mf and better enemies actually decrease drop rate of dyes(low score) and increase drop rate of rarer equip (better score). It’s like you want to collect whites but because of your good score game drops you only blue and greens.

mapokl.3167:

I noticed that dyes don’t drop or drop very rarery in higher lvl zones (70+) but got them at the same rate as earlier in lower zones (up to lvl 50).

It’s not that i kill more enemies or collect more plants there but in Brisban Wildlands i got 2 dyes in hour of play, when in Orr i played for 6-7 hours and got none. I think that there is mechanism to encourage farming outside Orr.

Or more simply place of dye in drop list changed (lowered) so now blue/green override it. Don’t know how exactly drop works, but i think there is rating system. Bigger score = more and better items. And since place of dyes lowered you would have to actually have lower score, or you would get blue/green that is higher on drop list. If this is case, mf and better enemies actually decrease drop rate of dyes(low score) and increase drop rate of rarer equip (better score). It’s like you want to collect whites but because of your good score game drops you only blue and greens.

It sounds to me like they went for your idea with the first time, when they FUBAR’ed it to make the drops too fast. Now they’re too inconsistent. They should have just left it alone. It was fine the way it was before they screwed with it the first time.

…and it’s not just dyes either.

I do my daily in Queensdale everyday on my engineer. I’ll get maybe 3-4 in MF gear, and 0-1 in regular gear. I do a good wide circle on the map until I complete the daily, then leave. If I wanted to really farm dyes, I would hop 1-15 zones doing same method.

I havent seen a dye drop in a long time, which is a great shame as i always enjoyed getting one.

This drop rate clearly wasnt “fixed” but was instead “lowered massively”.

Drop rates aside,

I believe the prices are rising for two reasons.

1) There’s far less people doing stuff in the world because of the fractals.
2) The bots have been banned and they probably accounted for 95% of the items on the trading post.

With everyone primarily just in dungeons, peoples’ bank accounts are rising meanwhile the supply is decreasing.

Weird .. I’m still seeing two or three a day.. Mainly from low regions.. I cant help opening them though

They probably also did it because, relative to other legendary requirements, Bifrost is like one of the easiest/cheapest of the bunch.

Peetee.9406:

2) The bots have been banned and they probably accounted for 95% of the items on the trading post.

I seriously doubt that. A few thousand bots running 24/7 under DR would not be that much more productive than a million actual players.

Another day passes without a fix to the loot issue (funny it took a few days to fix an above average drop rate). It’s about time to call a spade a spade, this was intended, and Anet is no longer the company I used to stick up for. They are not sell outs…. They were SOLD. Gimmie Gimmie cash grab loot nerfing Nexon the overlords of Anet.

All you have to do is look at the unidentified dyes on gw2spidy (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/20323, click on the “all” button to see the entire history since launch) and look at the supply, demand and price trends to see that something is seriously amiss with unidentified dye.

Prices for unidentified dyes were generally on a steady downward trend from launch until the drop rate bug was introduced. One month post-launch (September 28th) raw sales prices were 4s 75c with 44,560 sale listings (1 day running average). Prices continued on a steady downward trend as additional supply entered the market and as of the date the dye drop rate bug was introduced, raw sales prices were 3s 56c with 90,876 sale listings (1 day running average) on the market. When the bug was “fixed” on November 5th, prices bottomed out at 1s 94c with 183,065 sales listings (1 day running average) on the market.

Prices since the bug “fix” have increased dramatically and as the time of this writing (December 1st around 4pm PST), raw unidentified dye sale price data was at a whopping 12s 75c with a mere 18,330 listings (1 day running average). Which means that since November 1st (which before the bug’s impact hit the market, so this date represents the end of “normal” market conditions), we’ve seen a price increase of +258% and a supply decline of -80% over the past month.

It appears that prices may have been starting to level out around the 7s-7s 50c mark between Nov 12-Nov 18th, then recommenced their steep upward climb. And that November 18th date coincides with the big loot drop during The Lost Shores finale.

If I had to speculate, I think the following two issues are having the most impact on our unidentified dye prices:

-The bug “fix” was not just a fix, but was also a drop rate nerf. Looking at supply levels, the “fix” does not appear to have restored the drop rate to pre-November 1st levels, but rather swung the drop rate pendulum too far in the opposite direction. And now, unidentified dye supply is more scarce than ever. (EDIT – This is very likely not the case after all. What we’re likely seeing instead is the fallout of ArenaNet’s anti-botting measures. See my post here for more: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Unid-Dyes/page/2#post905239)

-The Lost Shores finale drops flooded the market with high-demand/high-price items (including precursors!), some of which players were able to sell for a LOT of gold. This has resulted in price inflation for those items that were not dropped during the event.

A decline in player population is a popular theory on why supply is decreasing for unidentified dyes. And it’s true that less players could certainly have an impact on the supply side of things. However, less players would also mean less demand. So if it were entirely a population issue, there would not be as much demand and supply/demand would be more in balance. If supply/demand were in (or near) balance, prices would not be skyrocketing as much as they are. But as you can see on the gw2spidy chart, demand has remained relatively consistent over the past month.

Manoa.5897:

However, less players would also mean less demand. So if it were entirely a population issue, there would not be as much demand and supply/demand would be more in balance.

as i understand it, the legendary staff Bifrost needs 250 Unidentified Dyes in it’s creation, so it is possible that supply>demand is working on a 1>250 ratio rather than something more balanced.

Mimizu.7340:

Manoa.5897:

However, less players would also mean less demand. So if it were entirely a population issue, there would not be as much demand and supply/demand would be more in balance.

as i understand it, the legendary staff Bifrost needs 250 Unidentified Dyes in it’s creation, so it is possible that supply>demand is working on a 1>250 ratio rather than something more balanced.

I originally thought that Bifrost may be playing a role on the demand side of things, especially after The Lost Shores precursor dump. But looking at the graphs, I don’t think this is the case. You can get a general sense of demand by looking at the buy listing statistics for unidentified dyes.

Number of Buy Listings Volume (1 day average)

November 1 (bug introduced): 139,240

November 5 (bug “fixed”): 135,056 (-3% from Nov 1, likely a result of more people purchasing outright due to cheap prices rather than placing buy orders)

November 18 (Lost Shores event finale loot dump): 155,942 (+12% from Nov 1)

December 1 @ around 6:20pm PST: 152,880 (+10% from Nov 1)

So we’ve seen some increases in the demand side of things, but the delta (change) is nowhere near the rate at which we are seeing supply declines and price escalations. If Bifrost was playing any significant role in the price increases, I’d expect a bump in demand in the market after the Lost Shores precursor dump (you can see the increase in sales volume and resulting plunge in sales prices as a result the event finale if you look at gw2spidy’s entry for The Legend). But looking at the numbers, I just don’t think Bifrost is playing much of a role in the rapid escalations in unidentified dye prices.