Unidentified gear - Please No, No, No, Nooooo
Sooner or later they will sell something at the Gemstore called “The Copper-Fed-I-Dentifier” for 800 gems.
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
That doesn’t make any sense, it is more convenient.
1000 gears comparison
Old system: salvage all 20 times-go to merchant 20 times
New system: Wait until 4 stacks and go to merchant 1 time-salvage all.
How is that not more convienient?
Some must fight so that all may be free.
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
Yeah but people on the trading post will pay you for the privilege of experiencing it themselves instead of you! =P
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
That doesn’t make any sense, it is more convenient.
1000 gears comparisonOld system: salvage all 20 times-go to merchant 20 times
New system: Wait until 4 stacks and go to merchant 1 time-salvage all.How is that not more convienient?
I’ll start with the compare and contrast method of “Profit”
Current:
1) Fill inventory (no need to pay to see what is there you already know, so you do not lose money on this portion)
2) Salvage items that you want to salvage (pay for either salvage kits or use the salvage-o’matics)
3) Go to vendor to sell (or summon merchant)/use trading post
4) Profit
New mechanic:
1) First complete heart quest (spending the time to finish heart quest)
Then:
2) Pay to have items ID’d (say you do a meta event and get 50 items that’s a LOT of clicking, I don’t remember seeing an “identify all” mechanic but I might have missed it)
3) Pay to salvage said item
4) Sell to merchant things you do not want
5) Not sure about Profit
To me the current system can be tricky and means I have to have extra bags etc especially if I do AB for instance but at least I know up front everything I have and can make an informed decision on the matter. The new system means added work because I actually LIKE knowing what it is that I’ve gotten and I’m not fond of the idea that now I have to gamble to to see how many rares/exotics I get as drops. Also, it shifts continuity of the game, you start out playing in Central Tyria (even if you don’t get HoT) where all of the items you get come pre-id’d, then all of a sudden you have to pay to ID them all. New players will not have the gold to do that and those of us who have been playing a while don’t always want to spend it on id’ing them either. At the same time, for me, I will feel the need to ID it. In other words it feels like a bad choice regardless of what I pick. That to me is frustrating.
(edited by Ferelwing.8463)
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
Yeah but people on the trading post will pay you for the privilege of experiencing it themselves instead of you! =P
Why buy those when you can buy bags on the TP and not pay to have them id’d?
Seriously, I know I wouldn’t buy the “unidentified” stuff when I could just buy a bunch of the bags from the TP from say Lake Doric or better yet I could just go there myself and get them?
The “pay to have them id’d” mechanic is the problem. I didn’t mind having 250 bags from Lake Doric or events that gave bags as loot and if they wanted to go that route then I’d be totally ok with it. It would make the items stack and it wouldn’t feel like whatever choice I made was a bad choice.
The pay to ID mechanic feels like a bad choice. If I don’t pay to ID then I feel like I’m missing out on something, if I do pay to ID something it feels like I wasted time and coins. Neither of these choices feel good to make.
(edited by Ferelwing.8463)
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
Yeah but people on the trading post will pay you for the privilege of experiencing it themselves instead of you! =P
Why buy those when you can buy bags on the TP and not pay to have them id’d? Seriously, I know I wouldn’t buy the “unidentified” stuff when I could just buy a bunch of the bags from the TP from say Lake Doric or better yet I could just go there myself and get them?
Because within days of release the drop rates etc will be understood by those that want to know and there will be people who buy them en masse for their massed coppers of profit after prices normalise, amd especially if the price of something fluctuates enough to make it massed tens of coppers or even massed silvers.
I think it just adds an unnecessary step. How does this improve the game?
It doesn’t. It just makes you pay for the one thing the game gives you as a reward.
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
Yeah but people on the trading post will pay you for the privilege of experiencing it themselves instead of you! =P
Why buy those when you can buy bags on the TP and not pay to have them id’d? Seriously, I know I wouldn’t buy the “unidentified” stuff when I could just buy a bunch of the bags from the TP from say Lake Doric or better yet I could just go there myself and get them?
Because within days of release the drop rates etc will be understood by those that want to know and there will be people who buy them en masse for their massed coppers of profit after prices normalise, amd especially if the price of something fluctuates enough to make it massed tens of coppers or even massed silvers.
Even if the drop rate is known, spending money to ID something that I can just click a bag for will not be worth more in the long run when it comes to profit/loss department. Every drop will be calculated based on how much the cost is, how much time I have to waste to achieve said “profit”… In the long run, I personally, would just buy bags. The drop rates seem to be comparable and the added cost isn’t there.
I doubt very much that will change. Unless there’s a 1 and 3 chance of pre-cursor/rare/exotic. My own attempt in the demo showed abysmal drop rates for rares/exotics vs how much I spent.
At the same time the opportunity cost is also important. The entire system feels like nothing more than more bad choices. I can choose to spend on id’ing the items which may or may not be worth less than what I spent, or I can choose to salvage items which may or may not have been useful/needed. In this sense both choices feel “bad”.
However, I doubt that buying unidentified items will be profitable or that they will sell particularly well, especially when you take in the cost to id them vs buying bags which do not carry that penalty. (As I said, unless the drop rate is going to be massively worth it and based on my experience in Demo the rates weren’t that great)
Again, why would you spend money on something via the tp, then spend more money and time to id said items vs just go through, get the loot yourself (you still have to spend the time either way), and then spend the money to id the items? (Which still feels bad either way). If you’re hoping to save time you’re still spending the time regardless you still have to finish the heart before you even start the process of iding the items which will still cost money to id ON TOP of having to have already paid for the items on the TP.
In summary: When you add in the hassle, the extra costs buying the unid’d items on the TP isn’t a better option than just buying bags.
(edited by Ferelwing.8463)
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
That doesn’t make any sense, it is more convenient.
1000 gears comparisonOld system: salvage all 20 times-go to merchant 20 times
New system: Wait until 4 stacks and go to merchant 1 time-salvage all.How is that not more convienient?
Why would I go to a merchant? I don’t have to go to a merchant. That’s something the new system appears to introduce for me.
Old system: process small amounts of loot whenever I’m doing something that requires no significant input, like walking to the next fight, listening to NPCs, or rezzing people. Never have to go anywhere to do any of this.
New system: occasional visits to merchants, pay fees and STILL HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING I NEED TO DO IN THE OLD SYSTEM ON TOP OF THAT.
There’s not a single way in which the new system will improve my “loot experience”. There just isn’t.
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
Yeah but people on the trading post will pay you for the privilege of experiencing it themselves instead of you! =P
Why buy those when you can buy bags on the TP and not pay to have them id’d? Seriously, I know I wouldn’t buy the “unidentified” stuff when I could just buy a bunch of the bags from the TP from say Lake Doric or better yet I could just go there myself and get them?
Because within days of release the drop rates etc will be understood by those that want to know and there will be people who buy them en masse for their massed coppers of profit after prices normalise, amd especially if the price of something fluctuates enough to make it massed tens of coppers or even massed silvers.
Even if the drop rate is known, spending money to ID something that I can just click a bag for will not be worth more in the long run when it comes to profit/loss department. Every drop will be calculated based on how much the cost is, how much time I have to waste to achieve said “profit”… In the long run not paying to see what I get will always win out.
I doubt very much that will change. Unless there’s a 1 and 3 chance of pre-cursor. My own attempt in the demo showed abysmal drop rates for rares/exotics vs how much I spent.
I feel like you’re talking past me rather than to me here. I was originally making a joke (hence the " =P " ) and then went on to just say whatever the price ends up being on the trading post, there will be people who buy them. I mean from the sounds of it it won’t be you. But it will be someone.
I think this is how it happened…..
(Anet employee): Guys guys guys! I got it (snicker)! Our fans are sooooo stupid…. (snicker)
(Group of Anet employes together): How stupid are they??!?!?!?
(Anet employee): Our fans are sooooooo stupid….(snicker laugh) they will pay “US” for the mats they loot in game now!!!
(Group of Anet employees): AHAHAHAHAHAH!!! YAS!!!!
(Anet employee): (tears in his eyes from laughing so hard) AND…AND… AAAAAND… wait for it…. Get this…. We will give them a gem store item that will identify this gear for them at more cost then the mats are worth!!!! AND AND AND…. (snicker) Itll cost them 1000 GEMS!
(all Anet employees Rolling on the ground with laughter): AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.
Now i want you to pay to id all that stuff you had before already id’d.
The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
Yeah but people on the trading post will pay you for the privilege of experiencing it themselves instead of you! =P
Why buy those when you can buy bags on the TP and not pay to have them id’d? Seriously, I know I wouldn’t buy the “unidentified” stuff when I could just buy a bunch of the bags from the TP from say Lake Doric or better yet I could just go there myself and get them?
Because within days of release the drop rates etc will be understood by those that want to know and there will be people who buy them en masse for their massed coppers of profit after prices normalise, amd especially if the price of something fluctuates enough to make it massed tens of coppers or even massed silvers.
Even if the drop rate is known, spending money to ID something that I can just click a bag for will not be worth more in the long run when it comes to profit/loss department. Every drop will be calculated based on how much the cost is, how much time I have to waste to achieve said “profit”… In the long run not paying to see what I get will always win out.
I doubt very much that will change. Unless there’s a 1 and 3 chance of pre-cursor. My own attempt in the demo showed abysmal drop rates for rares/exotics vs how much I spent.I feel like you’re talking past me rather than to me here. I was originally making a joke (hence the " =P " ) and then went on to just say whatever the price ends up being on the trading post, there will be people who buy them. I mean from the sounds of it it won’t be you. But it will be someone.
Ahh, sorry if you were making a joke I totally missed it! My bad.
Yeah I guess for me it is just a really big frustration to start with. At first I didn’t realize the unid’d things would be immediately salvaged if I used the ole salvage o’matic and so I had a bunch of loot I planned to id only to have it all gone instantly. Then when I started doing the maths I got even more frustrated with the drop rate vs what I spent. Considering Reddit was discussing how the drop rates are higher during the demo it made me really frustrated (mind you I still have zero idea what the eye of Kormir’s were going to be for so I can’t completely determine the real amount of the “haul” I got)
You’re probably right though, some people will buy it (if you post it they will buy it right?)
(edited by Ferelwing.8463)
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Now i want you to pay to id all that stuff you had before already id’d.
Pay who?
Unless I am mistaken, the unidentified gear can be sold directly to a vendor.
The unidentified gear can also be salvaged.
There is no need to identify it.
So, if you don’t want to id it, then don’t.
This changes nothing save for the fact that we will now have more bag slots available instead of having those slots filled with random greens and blues.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Now i want you to pay to id all that stuff you had before already id’d.
Pay who?
Unless I am mistaken, the unidentified gear can be sold directly to a vendor.
The unidentified gear can also be salvaged.
There is no need to identify it.
So, if you don’t want to id it, then don’t.
This changes nothing save for the fact that we will now have more bag slots available instead of having those slots filled with random greens and blues.
If you want to id it, for yellows or exotics, which are contained inside, you now have to pay for it, on top of this you still get blue and green drops…
The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Now i want you to pay to id all that stuff you had before already id’d.
Pay who?
Unless I am mistaken, the unidentified gear can be sold directly to a vendor.
The unidentified gear can also be salvaged.
There is no need to identify it.
So, if you don’t want to id it, then don’t.
This changes nothing save for the fact that we will now have more bag slots available instead of having those slots filled with random greens and blues.
Umm, you can do that I guess but then you have zero idea what it was you just sold and selling it doesn’t ID it.
Salvaging the stuff also means that you miss out on ecto etc…
So perhaps that’s a choice you might make but that’s not a choice I would make. Both those options feel “bad”.
Finish a heart/pay to id items/ pay to salvage the pieces you don’t want=Profit? (in my experience via demo it was not)
vs get a token, open token close to vendor, pay to salvage items/get ecto or sell on tp/sell items to merch = profit
even the current system of get loot which you already know whether you want to keep or salvage/ salvage/merchant trash items/tp = profit doesn’t have “finish heart, pay to see items before deciding their fate” option and doesn’t feel like “bad choices”.
(edited by Ferelwing.8463)
The pay to ID mechanic feels like a bad choice. If I don’t pay to ID then I feel like I’m missing out on something, if I do pay to ID something it feels like I wasted time and coins. Neither of these choices feel good to make.
For me, this is the crux of it – it doesn’t feel good. I feel I am making an uniformed choice either way and thus prone to buyer’s remorse no matter what I do. I like the idea of stacking gear to identify later, I just don’t want to have to pay for that privilege. The heart part of it if fine, IMO. This is not to mention the extra steps of click, click, click, type number, click, click, click. That I have to place these things in an invisible bag to get around the salvage all is also another step to take. I’m also not sure what the point of regular loot dropping along with unid gear is. Either make it all or nothing IMO, but I haven’t lived with it enough to know how fast the random stuff will fill your bags.
Others who are comparing these to bags are correct. I’d just rather have the bags. And not sixteen different types of bags and chests. I get that a heavy bag is different from a gilded chest, but in HoT it went overboard in the types of bags and pouches and seedpods and crap you can collect in just one meta.
(edited by Shaaba.5672)
If bag space is truly such an isssue, then why not add in a compact button to the bank screen? That would be more helpful then this unid bs that seems tailor made JUST to introduce something else to spend gems on. Do they think suddenly those of us who are not rich are going to convert gems to gold to pay for this added expense? That the only way to keep people in a zone is to tie this bs system to hearts? Seems like they have no faith in their game.
’Member when we had unid in GW1 that at least was sorted into rarities? I ’member. And if I want that system, I will hop on my old character and play GW1. Keep it out of GW2. Seriously.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
The crux of it is this, the entire time this game has given us fully id’d loot that we got to choose the fate of. If the problem is that people didn’t have space in their inventory because all of that id’d loot consumed space then give us something that will fix this particular point with something that will save space.
The new mechanic doesn’t feel like it offers meaningful choices, if you choose to sell the items to vendor sight unseen or you salvage the items you will always wonder if perhaps there was a rare/exotic/precusor in that group. If you choose not to and all you get are greens and blue’s then you will feel like you wasted money.
NONE of those are good answers.
The excuse you are making that it is a good thing boils down to that it saves inventory space, they could have done that without the “pay to id” mechanic. Perhaps for you that’s not a big deal, but for me and quite a few other people it is. It doesn’t save inventory for us and it adds in a troublesome “gamble” to the game which wasn’t there when we started playing. I don’t like to gamble, I like to plan and make informed decisions. The “unid’d” items do not give me the option of an informed choice for some that might be “ok” for me it’s not.
(edited by Ferelwing.8463)
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.
basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!
or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
The crux of it is this, the entire time this game has given us fully id’d loot that we got to choose the fate of. It the problem is that people didn’t have space in their inventory because it consumed them then give us something that will fix this. Having us spend money to id something that we worked to get feels bad.
It doesn’t feel like a good choice regardless, if you choose to sell the items to vendor sight unseen you will always wonder if perhaps there was a rare/exotic/precusor in that group. If you choose not to and all you get are greens and blue’s then you will feel like you wasted money.
NONE of those are good answers.
The excuse you are making is that it saves inventory space, they could have done that without the “pay to id” mechanic.
Well, perhaps we can use this opportunity to make suggestions to make the system better?
For example, the unidentified gear definitely addresses the bag space issue.
However, it does come with the caveat that in order to ID the gear, you need to spend currency.
What if there were an alternate currency that could be used to buy the ID kits?
Or, what if the ID kits could be obtained at a discount, or maybe even free?
For example, perhaps a mastery line that once unlocked would allow you to obtain the ID kits for like, I dunno a copper or some trivial amount?
Again, I think the system is pretty good at addressing the inventory issue.
I also don’t feel that there is a problem with spending currency to ID the gear.
I still believe that salvaging or selling the gear are both valid options that don’t require anyone to spend anything.
I view the ID part of the system as sort of a gamble, for “theoretical” better loot.
I see it as a “pay for a chance to get something better” type of mechanic.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.
basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!
or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.
Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.
The crux of it is this, the entire time this game has given us fully id’d loot that we got to choose the fate of. It the problem is that people didn’t have space in their inventory because it consumed them then give us something that will fix this. Having us spend money to id something that we worked to get feels bad.
It doesn’t feel like a good choice regardless, if you choose to sell the items to vendor sight unseen you will always wonder if perhaps there was a rare/exotic/precusor in that group. If you choose not to and all you get are greens and blue’s then you will feel like you wasted money.
NONE of those are good answers.
The excuse you are making is that it saves inventory space, they could have done that without the “pay to id” mechanic.
Well, perhaps we can use this opportunity to make suggestions to make the system better?
For example, the unidentified gear definitely addresses the bag space issue.
However, it does come with the caveat that in order to ID the gear, you need to spend currency.
What if there were an alternate currency that could be used to buy the ID kits?
Or, what if the ID kits could be obtained at a discount, or maybe even free?
For example, perhaps a mastery line that once unlocked would allow you to obtain the ID kits for like, I dunno a copper or some trivial amount?
Again, I think the system is pretty good at addressing the inventory issue.
I also don’t feel that there is a problem with spending currency to ID the gear.
I still believe that salvaging or selling the gear are both valid options that don’t require anyone to spend anything.
I view the ID part of the system as sort of a gamble, for “theoretical” better loot.
I see it as a “pay for a chance to get something better” type of mechanic.
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A few(maybe more, including myself) have asked for it to be made free, i dont have a problem with it if its free, as it currently is. Having to pay for it is what tips the edge of this into making me unhappy with ANET, they had one strike with mounts and making me sick(yay motion sickness) this is the second.
The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.
I have no inventory issue. In fact, this new system will put more of a burden on my inventory space. I’ll have to sacrifice a single spot for the stacking unidentifieds that I might want to identify. Regular gear drops I can process in seconds, anywhere, any time.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
The crux of it is this, the entire time this game has given us fully id’d loot that we got to choose the fate of. It the problem is that people didn’t have space in their inventory because it consumed them then give us something that will fix this. Having us spend money to id something that we worked to get feels bad.
It doesn’t feel like a good choice regardless, if you choose to sell the items to vendor sight unseen you will always wonder if perhaps there was a rare/exotic/precusor in that group. If you choose not to and all you get are greens and blue’s then you will feel like you wasted money.
NONE of those are good answers.
The excuse you are making is that it saves inventory space, they could have done that without the “pay to id” mechanic.
Well, perhaps we can use this opportunity to make suggestions to make the system better?
For example, the unidentified gear definitely addresses the bag space issue.
However, it does come with the caveat that in order to ID the gear, you need to spend currency.
What if there were an alternate currency that could be used to buy the ID kits?
Or, what if the ID kits could be obtained at a discount, or maybe even free?
For example, perhaps a mastery line that once unlocked would allow you to obtain the ID kits for like, I dunno a copper or some trivial amount?Again, I think the system is pretty good at addressing the inventory issue.
I also don’t feel that there is a problem with spending currency to ID the gear.
I still believe that salvaging or selling the gear are both valid options that don’t require anyone to spend anything.
I view the ID part of the system as sort of a gamble, for “theoretical” better loot.
I see it as a “pay for a chance to get something better” type of mechanic.
But again you’re paying to get something that you used to get for free… If they wanted to fix the inventory issue for those that really care about it perhaps they could have had a mastery “line” that locked them up into something else (maybe tokens that you could redeem later etc)rather than having everyone switch to a system that now locks the content away from you by default and gives you three choices that feel equally bad.
You’re not able to make an informed decision when you don’t know what it is you’re looking at and it’s a regression to have something that you used to have for free disappear behind a paywall. While I thought in my suggestion in another thread that having a mastery to auto-id would be nice, it once again puts you back to the problem of inventory space and no matter how you look at it the system takes away something that you used to have innately.
It would make better sense for them to come up with a different way of handling it. Paying to ID is a regression, having a mastery to auto-id something doesn’t fix the inventory space issue and is still a regression (if you used to have things id’d innately and then you have to get a mastery to once again have things id’d innately then it’s a redundancy and really shouldn’t exist).
Like I said, having bags or tokens or something else could have solved the inventory space issue rather than putting the player-base into a situation where there are no good choices.
(edited by Ferelwing.8463)
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.
basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!
or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.
Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.
Im sorry, but I think this argument is incredibly weak at best.
The basis of your position rests on these presupposed, theoretical drops coming out of these unidentified gear kits.
The argument here is based on pure conjecture.
You are upset about not getting something that you already do not have, and that does not exist.
If you apply this logic elsewhere, it’s like saying that every time you salvage a rare INSTEAD of throwing it into the Mystic toilet, you are somehow being robbed of the chance to get an exotic back because you didn’t get the chance to roll on it, because you salvaged it instead.
This logic is entirely circular, and will only lead back to itself.
Furthermore, you are assuming that rare and exotic drops will not come from ANYWHERE else and that identifying green gear kits is your only opportunity to roll on this gear.
Im sorry, I am REALLY NOT trying to sound rude, but this makes no sense to me.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.
basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!
or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.
Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.
Im sorry, but I think this argument is incredibly weak at best.
The basis of your position rests on these presupposed, theoretical drops coming out of these unidentified gear kits.
The argument here is based on pure conjecture.
You are upset about not getting something that you already do not have, and that does not exist.
If you apply this logic elsewhere, it’s like saying that every time you salvage a rare INSTEAD of throwing it into the toilet, you are somehow being robbed of the chance to get an exotic back because you didn’t get the chance to roll on it, because you salvaged it instead.
This logic is entirely circular, and will only lead back to itself.Furthermore, you are assuming that rare and exotic drops will not come from ANYWHERE else and that identifying green gear kits is your only opportunity to roll on this gear.
Im sorry, I am REALLY NOT trying to sound rude, but this makes no sense to me.
Apples to oranges here… You know that when you put 4 objects into the MF you might get something cool but more often then not you’ll get 1 item of the same kind and you don’t PAY to put them into the MF, you’ve already gotten said items. No one is under any kind of illusion that it’s efficient (which is why we all call it the mystic toilet) but you also know that when you salvage that rare you’re more than likely going to get an ecto at the very least. That ecto is worth it and you can also sell that on the tp for someone else who is trying to get ecto.
The demo allowed some of us to actually try to calculate the drop rate (there’s a link in this very thread if you’re interested) while none of us know what the eye of Kormir is worth, the overall drop rate wasn’t that amazing for rares/exotics/pre-cursors but either way there were losses.
I would like to be given the innate choice to decide whether or not something is worth my time. Currently I know the value of all the pieces I get immediately and I do not have to pay anything to find that out (I can check the tp from my inventory immediately without having to first do a heart nor pay the fee). The added “step” is what I object to. For the record, I don’t gamble on the MF either because I like making informed choices. The ONLY time I combine things in it is on dailies or when I have items from dungeons that are already account bound and I have nothing to really lose (and if you combine items from the dungeons that are account bound you can sell what comes out of the mystic forge so it’s actually a win).
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.
basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!
or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.
Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.
Im sorry, but I think this argument is incredibly weak at best.
The basis of your position rests on these presupposed, theoretical drops coming out of these unidentified gear kits.
The argument here is based on pure conjecture.
You are upset about not getting something that you already do not have, and that does not exist.
If you apply this logic elsewhere, it’s like saying that every time you salvage a rare INSTEAD of throwing it into the Mystic toilet, you are somehow being robbed of the chance to get an exotic back because you didn’t get the chance to roll on it, because you salvaged it instead.
This logic is entirely circular, and will only lead back to itself.Furthermore, you are assuming that rare and exotic drops will not come from ANYWHERE else and that identifying green gear kits is your only opportunity to roll on this gear.
Im sorry, I am REALLY NOT trying to sound rude, but this makes no sense to me.
Look, the issue I’m having here is simple… If the problem is inventory space then take the RNG to another location give everyone a token for blue/green/rare/exotic/precursor level gear and have us go to a vendor that tells us what token we’ve got no fee, just see the guy who explains it, if they wanted they could have made it a mastery.
With the Mystic forge you know precisely what will happen when you put 4 items in and it doesn’t cost you anything to put those items in. You have a very low chance of getting anything cool but it’s still there and if you want to risk it you can, at the same time it costs you NOTHING (the stuff you’ve got that you’re using you earned or bought on the TP for that purpose). Having something that used to be free and innate taken away to “save space” is a step backwards.
The only circular logic I’ve seen thus far has been the logic used to explain why this isn’t a regression in game-play and why this isn’t a problem but a “feature”. There were better ways to solve the problem of space. Perhaps having a Mastery point that gave you a magic bag that never ran out of space that you could put into your inventory or perhaps something that turned each of those items into a token that you went to see a vendor for RNG to take place there and you could “retrieve” the items that your tokens set you up for then salvage etc… All of those would have still granted “knowledge” without setting people up to wonder whether or not they made the right choice, it also would have made the “rewards” feel like rewards rather than feeling like there are no good choices.
How about a mastery to automatically give you the coin value of green sigils and runes when you would obtain them from salvaging? I’d prefer that to this disaster of an ID system.
Sooner or later they will sell something at the Gemstore called “The Copper-Fed-I-Dentifier” for 800 gems.
As near as I can tell, that needs to be “gold-fed”.
How about a mastery to automatically give you the coin value of green sigils and runes when you would obtain them from salvaging? I’d prefer that to this disaster of an ID system.
I like this idea as well it would be a good start right?
People seem to think it’s an advantage they stack to 250. How’s that an advantage when you’re finally sitting down to ID that stack? Getting hundreds of useless blues and greens at a time and more green sigils and runes than you’ve ever seen before?
It solves nothing. It just postpones the misery, plus it adds a fee and a few extra steps of busywork for good measure. It’s an absolutely awful prospect.
That doesn’t make any sense, it is more convenient.
1000 gears comparisonOld system: salvage all 20 times-go to merchant 20 times
New system: Wait until 4 stacks and go to merchant 1 time-salvage all.How is that not more convienient?
Because nobody has enough room for 1000 items in their packs. Or even 250.
Because within days of release the drop rates etc will be understood by those that want to know and there will be people who buy them en masse for their massed coppers of profit after prices normalise, amd especially if the price of something fluctuates enough to make it massed tens of coppers or even massed silvers.
Not if the TP price is lower than the minimum sale price, which seems extremely likely. (I can’t imagine anybody actually paying for the things.)
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.
basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!
or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.
Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.
Im sorry, but I think this argument is incredibly weak at best.
The basis of your position rests on these presupposed, theoretical drops coming out of these unidentified gear kits.
The argument here is based on pure conjecture.
You are upset about not getting something that you already do not have, and that does not exist.
If you apply this logic elsewhere, it’s like saying that every time you salvage a rare INSTEAD of throwing it into the Mystic toilet, you are somehow being robbed of the chance to get an exotic back because you didn’t get the chance to roll on it, because you salvaged it instead.
This logic is entirely circular, and will only lead back to itself.Furthermore, you are assuming that rare and exotic drops will not come from ANYWHERE else and that identifying green gear kits is your only opportunity to roll on this gear.
Im sorry, I am REALLY NOT trying to sound rude, but this makes no sense to me.
Look, the issue I’m having here is simple… If the problem is inventory space then take the RNG to another location give everyone a token for blue/green/rare/exotic/precursor level gear and have us go to a vendor that tells us what token we’ve got no fee, just see the guy who explains it, if they wanted they could have made it a mastery.
With the Mystic forge you know precisely what will happen when you put 4 items in and it doesn’t cost you anything to put those items in. You have a very low chance of getting anything cool but it’s still there and if you want to risk it you can, at the same time it costs you NOTHING (the stuff you’ve got that you’re using you earned or bought on the TP for that purpose). Having something that used to be free and innate taken away to “save space” is a step backwards.
The only circular logic I’ve seen thus far has been the logic used to explain why this isn’t a regression in game-play and why this isn’t a problem but a “feature”. There were better ways to solve the problem of space. Perhaps having a Mastery point that gave you a magic bag that never ran out of space that you could put into your inventory or perhaps something that turned each of those items into a token that you went to see a vendor for RNG to take place there and you could “retrieve” the items that your tokens set you up for then salvage etc… All of those would have still granted “knowledge” without setting people up to wonder whether or not they made the right choice, it also would have made the “rewards” feel like rewards rather than feeling like there are no good choices.
Ok, serious question.
Are rares and exotics being removed from the loot tables that include these unidentified gear kits?
Because this makes all of the difference.
I am operating under the assumption that they are NOT removed from these loot tables?
Why would I go to a merchant? I don’t have to go to a merchant. That’s something the new system appears to introduce for me.
Correct. I only go to a merchant maybe once per day (per character I play), and that’s just to keep my inventory clean (for aesthetic reasons, and so that I don’t have to check when I next go out with that character).
Now, to do that, I admit I have to have enough empty slots in my inventory to hold all of the minor runes and sigils. (Fine and lower do not generate runes or sigils, and rares and higher I usually sell on the TP immediately upon salvaging them.) But, that’s MY CHOICE.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.
How? You still need those same slots after identifying the items.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Or, just let us stack loot. I would pay to be able to stack them.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.How? You still need those same slots after identifying the items.
That is an entirely separate conversation.
Maybe you will randomly ID gear while in the middle of playing.
I would ID/salvage near a vendor.
Well, perhaps we can use this opportunity to make suggestions to make the system better?
Yes, we are: get rid of IDing loot.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.
basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!
or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.
Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.
Im sorry, but I think this argument is incredibly weak at best.
The basis of your position rests on these presupposed, theoretical drops coming out of these unidentified gear kits.
The argument here is based on pure conjecture.
You are upset about not getting something that you already do not have, and that does not exist.
If you apply this logic elsewhere, it’s like saying that every time you salvage a rare INSTEAD of throwing it into the Mystic toilet, you are somehow being robbed of the chance to get an exotic back because you didn’t get the chance to roll on it, because you salvaged it instead.
This logic is entirely circular, and will only lead back to itself.Furthermore, you are assuming that rare and exotic drops will not come from ANYWHERE else and that identifying green gear kits is your only opportunity to roll on this gear.
Im sorry, I am REALLY NOT trying to sound rude, but this makes no sense to me.
Look, the issue I’m having here is simple… If the problem is inventory space then take the RNG to another location give everyone a token for blue/green/rare/exotic/precursor level gear and have us go to a vendor that tells us what token we’ve got no fee, just see the guy who explains it, if they wanted they could have made it a mastery.
With the Mystic forge you know precisely what will happen when you put 4 items in and it doesn’t cost you anything to put those items in. You have a very low chance of getting anything cool but it’s still there and if you want to risk it you can, at the same time it costs you NOTHING (the stuff you’ve got that you’re using you earned or bought on the TP for that purpose). Having something that used to be free and innate taken away to “save space” is a step backwards.
The only circular logic I’ve seen thus far has been the logic used to explain why this isn’t a regression in game-play and why this isn’t a problem but a “feature”. There were better ways to solve the problem of space. Perhaps having a Mastery point that gave you a magic bag that never ran out of space that you could put into your inventory or perhaps something that turned each of those items into a token that you went to see a vendor for RNG to take place there and you could “retrieve” the items that your tokens set you up for then salvage etc… All of those would have still granted “knowledge” without setting people up to wonder whether or not they made the right choice, it also would have made the “rewards” feel like rewards rather than feeling like there are no good choices.
Ok, serious question.
Are rares and exotics being removed from the loot tables that include these unidentified gear kits?
Because this makes all of the difference.
I am operating under the assumption that they are NOT removed from these loot tables?
Yes, if you salvage the items you do not get ectos or anything else you get baseline mats, if you sell the item you do not get a rare/exotic price for them. You get a blue/green price for them. That is why we are objecting. ALL of the unidentified id’s are blue/green until id’d.
This mechanic saves bag space.
I don’t see a downside.Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens or pretty much anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart, then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
Except they could have saved space by just giving us all bags or tokens
The bag system is both a part of the economy, and a game mechanic. It has always been present, and always will be. Same as in any other MMO I’ve played. Also, there are tons of ways to get bags without spending gold.
anything else that didn’t require us to first complete a heart
Again, hearts are a core game mechanic. No-one is “required” to play the game.
then pay extra to id all that loot that we just worked to get.
There is no need to ID the loot. You can simply salvage the unidentified gear, or sell directly to a vendor.
you are right, there is no REQUIREMENT to id the loot, but if you DONT ID it, you lose out on any opportunity to loot an exotic or rare item that can be sold or salvaged for a much higher profit price. Now you MUST pay to get a chance at an exotic or rare, that you would NATURALLY HAVE GOTTEN without having to spend money to ID it.
basically what has happened is, is Anet wants to make us pay for things we already were getting for free(minus cost of salvage kit of course…). That cost is counter productive. Say you pay 1s 68c to id a piece of gear and it turns out to be a blue tier piece. Then you pay another 68c or 1s 20c to salvage that into a mat you can use(cuz the gear is useless to you otherwise or you can sell it for 1s to a vendor). You receive 2 mithril ore from the salvage. So now you have payed 2s 40c – 2s 90c to get 2 mithril that’s worth 60c. Congratulations… now you’re paying 2s 90c for 2 mithril, worth a total of 60c…. enjoy your cake sunshine!
or the alternative is to just salvage it outright and never have another chance at getting an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop ever again… your choice.
Thank you! That exactly describes the situation. You can either risk paying 2s 40c- 2s90c for something worth 60c OR you can choose not to see an exotic/rare/pre-cursor drop for as long as you are in the new zones. Neither of those choices feel like good choices.
Im sorry, but I think this argument is incredibly weak at best.
The basis of your position rests on these presupposed, theoretical drops coming out of these unidentified gear kits.
The argument here is based on pure conjecture.
You are upset about not getting something that you already do not have, and that does not exist.
If you apply this logic elsewhere, it’s like saying that every time you salvage a rare INSTEAD of throwing it into the Mystic toilet, you are somehow being robbed of the chance to get an exotic back because you didn’t get the chance to roll on it, because you salvaged it instead.
This logic is entirely circular, and will only lead back to itself.Furthermore, you are assuming that rare and exotic drops will not come from ANYWHERE else and that identifying green gear kits is your only opportunity to roll on this gear.
Im sorry, I am REALLY NOT trying to sound rude, but this makes no sense to me.
Look, the issue I’m having here is simple… If the problem is inventory space then take the RNG to another location give everyone a token for blue/green/rare/exotic/precursor level gear and have us go to a vendor that tells us what token we’ve got no fee, just see the guy who explains it, if they wanted they could have made it a mastery.
With the Mystic forge you know precisely what will happen when you put 4 items in and it doesn’t cost you anything to put those items in. You have a very low chance of getting anything cool but it’s still there and if you want to risk it you can, at the same time it costs you NOTHING (the stuff you’ve got that you’re using you earned or bought on the TP for that purpose). Having something that used to be free and innate taken away to “save space” is a step backwards.
The only circular logic I’ve seen thus far has been the logic used to explain why this isn’t a regression in game-play and why this isn’t a problem but a “feature”. There were better ways to solve the problem of space. Perhaps having a Mastery point that gave you a magic bag that never ran out of space that you could put into your inventory or perhaps something that turned each of those items into a token that you went to see a vendor for RNG to take place there and you could “retrieve” the items that your tokens set you up for then salvage etc… All of those would have still granted “knowledge” without setting people up to wonder whether or not they made the right choice, it also would have made the “rewards” feel like rewards rather than feeling like there are no good choices.
Ok, serious question.
Are rares and exotics being removed from the loot tables that include these unidentified gear kits?
Because this makes all of the difference.
I am operating under the assumption that they are NOT removed from these loot tables?Yes, if you salvage the items you do not get ectos or anything else you get baseline mats, if you sell the item you do not get a rare/exotic price for them. You get a blue/green price for them. That is why we are objecting. ALL of the unidentified id’s are blue/green until id’d.
Do we know if there will be yellow and orange unidentified gear?
Do we know if there will be yellow and orange unidentified gear?
Unless the Devs change things, there will not. Unidentified Gear, as of the demo, only came in one rarity. However, what you could get from identifying it ranged up to Exotic quality.
Ok, serious question.
Are rares and exotics being removed from the loot tables that include these unidentified gear kits?
Because this makes all of the difference.
I am operating under the assumption that they are NOT removed from these loot tables?[/quote]
Yes, if you salvage the items you do not get ectos or anything else you get baseline mats, if you sell the item you do not get a rare/exotic price for them. You get a blue/green price for them. That is why we are objecting. ALL of the unidentified id’s are blue/green until id’d.[/quote]
Do we know if there will be yellow and orange unidentified gear?[/quote]
You do not get yellow or orange unidentified gear at all. Literally it’s all hiding in the same space. That is what we’ve been saying all along, this is what we saw in the demo. I had a stack of blue unidentified gear and out of that I got 1 rare and the rest were green and blue. The entire stack is the same there is zero separation between what it actually is.
How about a mastery to automatically give you the coin value of green sigils and runes when you would obtain them from salvaging? I’d prefer that to this disaster of an ID system.
No, that won’t work. There are some green sigils and runes that I sell on the TP. And I sell almost all rare sigils and runes.
But, it’s a good idea, as long as I’m not forced to use it once I attain the mastery.
Much easier to implement the suggestion made years ago: allow a list of items which this player considers “junk”.
Do we know if there will be yellow and orange unidentified gear?
If you are asking, if there is yellow and orange that drops from the Unided gear, then yes there is, a few people have posted images in this thread, it seems to be the new elonian skins as the yellows
He was asking if you can get those drops and they look different in unid’d form. The answer to that was no, the loot was all exactly the same color so you have no idea if you are carrying rare/exotic/precursors in your inventory or not as they were not separated till after you id’d them.
He was asking if you can get those drops and they look different in unid’d form. The answer to that was no, the loot was all exactly the same color so you have no idea if you are carrying rare/exotic/precursors in your inventory or not as they were not separated till after you id’d them.
Deleted my post before you even posted that, my god you are kitten fast.
But yes, i realized that. I read really quick and skip words sometimes :P
The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.