Guild Wars 2

Fix bug please…..

Rin: I have at least one of every race and class, with about 3 or 4 (honestly can’t remember) repeats of certain classes. ALL of them are level 80 with I think 2 at full world complete. The rest are all at various stages of it. Most are equipped with full exotic or an exotic/ascended mix.

Is running around the map to do map complete a chore? Possibly? Probably the reason I haven’t done it across all of my toons. Here’s the thing though: if I want to, say, have my power necro do a certain event or dungeon, I just go there. Straight there. If I already have the WP, goodie. If not, I run. Literally no skin off my nose to run to the place to get it open when i want it. The time investment is minimal at best to get me to those places.

And before you mention how precious your game time is with respect to the other things in your life, please understand that my job requires me to be on call for a week at a time every other week and I have 2 little girls age 4 and 5 that are a huge priority as well. My game time is usually limited to maybe an hour or 2 if I’m lucky enough to play at all. Believe me, I get the truncated play time issue.

My point here is that, your boredom notwithstanding, playing PvE requires active engagement with that environment and to that end, waypoint opening is part of that game experience for this and MANY other if not MOST other MMOs. It is literally part of the game. Full stop. If that one aspect of the game (which is so inconsequential to begin with) is just too much to have to bear while getting to the parts you want to play, then it might be time to take a break from the genre. Seriously. If you are so burned out from simply playing the game as it was designed then you need a break.

It would take me less time than writing this post right now to have run clear across one map and unlocking each WP along the way, and from any of those even less time to get to an event on that map that I’d maybe want to play at a later date.

Its like complaining that you really want to eat but its too much trouble to lift the spoon to your mouth since you’ve already done it a bunch before.

In either case, it looks like Anet might deliver a waypoint purchase unlock thing for you anyway, so there you have it. Enjoy spending money on something that is normally free and such a minuscule time sink that paying for it is akin to being snookered (IMHO).

My assumption is then that the people wanting this option are those that have levelled in ways that are working in a way that in my opinion isn’t intended and is exploited. However the exploiting isn’t damaging the game in anyway so Anet feels it’s not something needing to be fixed.
The methods I’m including in this is:

Tomes of Knowledge: I firmly believe that these are levelling aids, not to skip the levelling process completely. While they are regularly and on a large scale being used to skip the levelling process, I do not believe that this was an intended purpose for them.

Event Trains: Specifically trains in Edge of the Mists. As Edge of the Mists was an area intended for WvW players to fight during map overflows, also as an area to learn WvW and have a different scale of WvW fights. However it’s main use by the players is to level characters quickly without using tomes/mapping.

Dungeon levelling: Swapping to an alt can be a fast efficient way to level an alt character (however it does require some effort to get your alt to the dungeon quick call the qq brigade) but it will net you 70%~ of a level every path completion if you can zone in fast enough.

To a lesser extent than it used to be
Crafting: I am unsure of the current levelling progression that crafting gives nowadays but I am sure you can reach level 80 just buy maxing all or most crafts to 500/400(for jewel/cook). Since ascended armor and the lower tier materials costing so much more than they did previously (see silk, linen and cotton) I don’t generally expect that many people max all crafts just to level.

Due to this, mapping is left out of the character progression, which if you’d have had to level “properly” then you’d have a significant portion of the map unlocked already. Furthermore if you’d have planned which maps you wanted waypoints in, you’d have even less map left to uncover and this problem probably wouldn’t have arisen in the first place.

These levelling methods have somewhat given people more incentive to level alts, this is a good thing. People have access to level 80 characters quickly and they can be fully geared. You can also, provided you have skill point scrolls and some gold, unlock all the traits.
So at this point, either through crafting, zerging or toming, you can have a level 80 alt in a matter of minutes or days with full exotic gear (or ascended if you transfer it off another character/have it in the bank ready made) and you can have all the skills and the traits that you will need.
You’re really asking for 1 step further and wanting the entire map unlocked? I mean if you have the gold and the skill points you have essentially a 100% complete character done within a few minutes. Access to any dungeon/event/activity and it’s taken you no time at all. So what is going to keep you playing?
You already have these fully maxed out characters with full gear, skills and traits and you’re honestly asking for more?
It’s frankly lazy to me as a long time MMO player to see people wanting to just be given access to all this content on any character they want.
I’m thinking of just 2 games in particular right now that I’ve played recently. (Had to cut the 2nd since over 5k characters..)

Guild Wars 1. As a long time speedclearer I rerolled all the useful SC classes to level 20, I then got them to the SC zones (not a difficult task, maybe taking me 20 minutes..) having to ascend them (complete certain missions) get gear (easy just a bit of gold) unlock skills (tomes) and then it was ready. Except it wasn’t just that easy.
For most “hardcore” speed clears they required PvE only skills. These took a little bit more time to acquire and once acquired, you needed a decent rank for them to be effective (until a patch very late into the game that lowered the ranks needed for effectiveness)
On top of this, for a DoA player (End game Nightfall) you’d need to complete the entire campaign and have a decent PvE title (Lightbringer) to be able to effectively complete the speedclear.
-The game is providing me with content to level
-The game is providing me with content to progress my characters
-The game is providing me with content to complete when I max those characters

While I understand that GW2 is a totally different game to GW1 I don’t think you realise quite how much you’re given already. 0 time to level. 0 time to get armor. 0 time to get skills/traits and then 0 time to go anywhere on the map? What is there to keep you playing at that point?
-The game is providing me with content to complete when I max those characters.

Suddenly you’re missing out on content you’ve completed once. Perhaps it’s anets fault that re playability of running through/exploring zones isn’t fun to you. Perhaps they need to make that more enjoyable and rewarding. They do not however, need anymore ways to allow you to skip through content because you find it boring.

@PookieDaWombat: I guess the fact I have posted so much in this thread and come across quite passionate about this subject, it might sound like I am burnt out, but that’s really not the case. And many posting here are right, it doesn’t take much effort or time to unlock waypoints. And like you, I sometimes just run straight to it (if I am only one zone away). And I also agree with Crystallize, that if I had leveled my alts normally I may have unlocked a lot more waypoints. But that was a result of me trying to skip another progression mechanic I don’t enjoy.

This kind of topic is one I have a big interest in. I am in the process of developing (only on paper at the moment) a game of my own. Not anything as grand as an MMO, but certain aspects of MMO’s are still worth looking at. So any kind of subject about what makes a game fun, interests me. For a while now I have been brainstorming on what makes a game fun, and what stops that fun? What keeps people playing? Is grind truly a necessity or is it just a lazy/greedy design choice? And how do systems effect different people?

Anyway, I am rambling too much on this subject, and I think I have put my view on this topic into enough words already. I think it is too late for Anet to change things as drastically as I would like, and I understand it would take a LOT of work so can understand if it is not changed, but I will welcome any convenience item that removes/reduces any of the time gating. If it is true they are adding such an item then depending on how much it costs I may be buying said item(s) for those times when I need it. If not, then I’ll just carry on as is.

I’m one avid for debate so I will defend the point I make passionately and as thoroughly as I can.
It’s quite easy to say that all elements of a game should be fun. But at what point do you go from all content being fun to require necessary content to keep people playing.

I think one of the things Anet thought about the traits upgrade was to give players something to do by this I mean, when they are levelling their characters they can go around to areas and complete specific events to get these characters complete.
I don’t think they thoroughly thought of the repercussions it would have on returning players or veteran players making alts.
I do think this was a big mistake on Anets part. However, I do firmly believe that having some required content fleshes out a game. It gives it some substance. While it might be nice to automatically have a level 80 with access to all maps and all skills and everything within 5 minutes of making the character, the chances are that you’re going to play less because of that.

I would think the purpose of having to actually go around and map out the waypoints somewhat encourages you to invest some time into the character. Investing time into anything makes a connection with that thing.
Games are very personal these days. People do get attached to their characters and to their accounts. Perhaps people wont admit it, but you’d be quite upset if your character that you’ve spent hours creating got deleted and you had to start over. Whereas a character that’s a few hours old, probably less so.

I know this sound quite “sad” or “silly” but it is one of the things taken into consideration when games/apps/even phones etc are made these days.
If you are that passionate about taking your new elementalist to X event then you will run there. If not then you really don’t want to play that ele if you’re not wanting to invest any time into it.. At least thats my opinion of it.

[Disclaimer: I only read the first page. Apologies if someone else suggested this already.]

Suggestion: Make it an item that unlocks ONE waypoint in each zone. If there is a “normal” entry waypoint, then make that the one. This way, someone’s at least able to get to the zone they want, but it doesn’t remove the exploration of that zone.

I look at it like this as well: running to a WP isn’t also just running to the WP in PvE (for me). Many times, even if my ultimate goal in this game was to get my new thief to the other end of some map, as I open the map and WPs i also tended to come across a person having a hard time soloing some mob, or maybe just knocked to downed and I will go over and help them. Maybe even run a few local events with them to watch their back. It basically increases the general social aspects of the game which would not be there if I could just blink to the WP because I bought it. I end up losing out on an experience and I can’t imagine that being a good trade off for an MMO.

Also, and i can’t stress this enough, there are STILL things in the open world that I’ve just discovered for the first time even though i have 100% map complete and all of the maps opened in some way shape or form on all of my other alts. Its very easy to have missed something in opening maps when all you use to gauge a map opening is the checklist of points in the corner. Conversations or small events that sometimes go unnoticed.

I’m pretty sure I’ve still not heard all of the conversations people have in Divinity’s Reach.

Palador.2170:

[Disclaimer: I only read the first page. Apologies if someone else suggested this already.]

Suggestion: Make it an item that unlocks ONE waypoint in each zone. If there is a “normal” entry waypoint, then make that the one. This way, someone’s at least able to get to the zone they want, but it doesn’t remove the exploration of that zone.

Actually what would be interesting is if they made it 2-3 random WP in a zone.

Merlot.8567:

So this has been brought up in the past but I feel it might do with a revision.

Anet have created an expansive world. It’s full of stuff and things. The only issue with this and an MMO is convenience and replayability; that is, levelling alts can become quite a chore.
Having several 100% world map completed characters, I would personally appreciate an unlockable item earned in-game that allowed alts to unlock waypoints across the world because, whilst I like whatever profession I am levelling (spoiler alert: sylvari necromancer) exploring/running around what I alread know off the back of my hand is…boring. And tiresome.

So what does everyone think of an item that can be earned to unlock waypoints. Mayne a consumable that’s account bound so you can send it to that particular character and it will unlock waypoints. The waypoints unlocked could be specific to the age of the game, i.e. old world (tyria excluding south sun and dry top).

Thoughts?

Also not a gemstore item kthnx.

I have to agree.

After two full map completions (including WvW) I can’t be bothered to do it a 3rd time. If WP’s were unlocked I might actually take an alt through the map events/quests. If anything may actually bring veteran players back into these maps.

Anet could always offer an account wide mount for the PvE world as a reward for your 1st map completion also

Wetpaw.3487:

Merlot.8567:

So this has been brought up in the past but I feel it might do with a revision.

Anet have created an expansive world. It’s full of stuff and things. The only issue with this and an MMO is convenience and replayability; that is, levelling alts can become quite a chore.
Having several 100% world map completed characters, I would personally appreciate an unlockable item earned in-game that allowed alts to unlock waypoints across the world because, whilst I like whatever profession I am levelling (spoiler alert: sylvari necromancer) exploring/running around what I alread know off the back of my hand is…boring. And tiresome.

So what does everyone think of an item that can be earned to unlock waypoints. Mayne a consumable that’s account bound so you can send it to that particular character and it will unlock waypoints. The waypoints unlocked could be specific to the age of the game, i.e. old world (tyria excluding south sun and dry top).

Thoughts?

Also not a gemstore item kthnx.

I have to agree.

After two full map completions (including WvW) I can’t be bothered to do it a 3rd time. If WP’s were unlocked I might actually take an alt through the map events/quests. If anything may actually bring veteran players back into these maps.

Anet could always offer an account wide mount for the PvE world as a reward for your 1st map completion also

I agree. I would be much more inclined to have more alts and spend money on them if there were a way to unlock them easily.

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

I make a new character and want it to be like my main character in a few clicks.
Next I will want all collections unlocked item in the shop
Next I will want all legendary skins unlocked item in the shop
Next I will want all skins unlocked item in the shop
…

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

or maybe it’s just feedback…not a big deal either way, my alts can continue to sit at jp chests for all I care.

and since you mention fair, how about we include WvW maps as part of of map completion again? or not allow gold to gem conversion? remove level up tomes while we are at it? Your “fair” is subjective.

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

there are other account bound things in the game that you use among your characters so maybe open up your mind a bit.

Wetpaw.3487:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

or maybe it’s just feedback…not a big deal either way, my alts can continue to sit at jp chests for all I care.

and since you mention fair, how about we include WvW maps as part of of map completion again, or not allow gold to gem conversion, and remove level up tomes while we are at it? Your “fair” is subjective.

Is this about WvW maps or gold to gem? No. It’s about someone wanting to have all the waypoints cause he doesn’t want to get them again with his alts.

WvW maps should be part of map completion.
Tomes of Knowledge / Crafting / EoTM(zerg levelling) / Dungeon alt levelling should be removed.
Scrolls of Knowledge should be removed.
Traits should be gained using the 3 books we had in 2012 at the games launch.
Fractals should give better rewards. Blabla.

Swagger.1459:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

there are other account bound things in the game that you use among your characters so maybe open up your mind a bit.

And that has what to do with Waypoints that you find? Absolutely nothing, but gj with mentioning it.

Crystallize.8603:

I make a new character and want it to be like my main character in a few clicks.
Next I will want all collections unlocked item in the shop
Next I will want all legendary skins unlocked item in the shop
Next I will want all skins unlocked item in the shop
…

nobody is asking for that. stop being foolish and take it somewhere else.

Ephemiel.5694:

Swagger.1459:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

there are other account bound things in the game that you use among your characters so maybe open up your mind a bit.

And that has what to do with Waypoints that you find? Absolutely nothing, but gj with mentioning it.

it has to do with a comment that is obviously over your head.

Swagger.1459:

Ephemiel.5694:

Swagger.1459:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

there are other account bound things in the game that you use among your characters so maybe open up your mind a bit.

And that has what to do with Waypoints that you find? Absolutely nothing, but gj with mentioning it.

it has to do with a comment that is obviously over your head.

Nah, i just don’t read comments that are dumb or about laziness

You made a new character? Unlock the waypoints again, end of story.

It’s not far away from it.
People complained levelling was too hard, so they made it easier.
People complained AC was too hard. So they made it easier.
People complained WvW mapping was too hard. So they removed it.
People are complaining mapping is boring and shouldn’t be required to play a character – So anet will remove waypoints being a locked feature of the game?

Where do we draw the line on how kitten easy we want this game? I mean really. You are telling me you can’t be bothered to play a game you paid for. That’s the simple truth of it.

Ephemiel.5694:

Wetpaw.3487:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

or maybe it’s just feedback…not a big deal either way, my alts can continue to sit at jp chests for all I care.

and since you mention fair, how about we include WvW maps as part of of map completion again, or not allow gold to gem conversion, and remove level up tomes while we are at it? Your “fair” is subjective.

Is this about WvW maps or gold to gem? No. It’s about someone wanting to have all the waypoints cause he doesn’t want to get them again with his alts.

you brought up “fair”, and I responded in example how dumb/subjective your “fair” “stop complaining” point is.

Wetpaw.3487:

Ephemiel.5694:

Wetpaw.3487:

Ephemiel.5694:

You made a completely new character? Unlock everything again. It’s 100% fair, stop complaining.

or maybe it’s just feedback…not a big deal either way, my alts can continue to sit at jp chests for all I care.

and since you mention fair, how about we include WvW maps as part of of map completion again, or not allow gold to gem conversion, and remove level up tomes while we are at it? Your “fair” is subjective.

Is this about WvW maps or gold to gem? No. It’s about someone wanting to have all the waypoints cause he doesn’t want to get them again with his alts.

you brought up “fair”, and I responded in example how dumb/subjective your “fair” “stop complaining” point is.

You TRIED to do that by mentioning something completely irrelevant to the topic.

Um… why? Just why?

Okay, so you unlock all waypoints on your level 20 Warrior. Congratulations. Then what? It’s utterly meaningless to go to areas with level 80 mobs only to die when they blink at you.

I’m utterly confused as to why anyone could consider this a good idea. It ultimately has very little utility beyond quick-travelling to cities, and that’s already possible thanks to the Asura gates. If you REALLY need that shortcut to the dungeons, try walking to them? Costs nothing, takes minutes and you’ll be going through areas which are probably more appropriate for your level.

The requests just keep getting stranger here.

Lemuria.3195:

Um… why? Just why?

Okay, so you unlock all waypoints on your level 20 Warrior. Congratulations. Then what? It’s utterly meaningless to go to areas with level 80 mobs only to die when they blink at you.

I’m utterly confused as to why anyone could consider this a good idea. It ultimately has very little utility beyond quick-travelling to cities, and that’s already possible thanks to the Asura gates. If you REALLY need that shortcut to the dungeons, try walking to them? Costs nothing, takes minutes and you’ll be going through areas which are probably more appropriate for your level.

The requests just keep getting stranger here.

Because many players don’t quest at all to level. I leveled my Ranger/Guard the oldschool way of map completion questing. I leveled my Necro and Warrior via crafting. I leveled my Thief/Mesmer via lvl20 scrolls/lvl1 tomes.

I prefer rewarding a player that finishes map completion like I mentioned in a previous post over handing out WP’s…but I know how the dreaded “M” word is frowned upon in these forums.

Wetpaw.3487:

Lemuria.3195:

Um… why? Just why?

Okay, so you unlock all waypoints on your level 20 Warrior. Congratulations. Then what? It’s utterly meaningless to go to areas with level 80 mobs only to die when they blink at you.

I’m utterly confused as to why anyone could consider this a good idea. It ultimately has very little utility beyond quick-travelling to cities, and that’s already possible thanks to the Asura gates. If you REALLY need that shortcut to the dungeons, try walking to them? Costs nothing, takes minutes and you’ll be going through areas which are probably more appropriate for your level.

The requests just keep getting stranger here.

Because many players don’t quest at all to level. I leveled my Ranger/Guard the oldschool way of map completion questing. I leveled my Necro and Warrior via crafting. I leveled my Thief/Mesmer via lvl20 scrolls/lvl1 tomes.

I prefer rewarding a player that finishes map completion like I mentioned in a previous post over handing out WP’s…but I know how the dreaded “M” word is frowned upon in these forums.

If you leveled without questing and didn’t bother at least getting important waypoints, that’s kinda your problem.

Unlock all waypoints on a single character- 1000 gems

Unlock all waypoints on account- 2000 gems

Pass it along to the team! Thanks!

How about no. /15charrs

Rest assured it’s not likely to happen any time soon, but we can always dream.

As the game ages I expect to see a few more ‘bypass’ type options added though.

It will happen, mark my words!

Swagger.1459:

It will happen, mark my words!

Doubt it.

A better solution: Once any character on the account has 100% map completion the fog of war is lifted from all other characters.

While you would still have to go and get all the WPs, it would be much easier to get around. My biggest problem is finding my way, which leads to me logging in and out of a new character and one that has the map complete. Or going back and forth between the game and maps online, which just takes me away from the game and makes me not want to play.

I’m sure this will get buried though.

Fiddlestyx.9714:

A better solution: Once any character on the account has 100% map completion the fog of war is lifted from all other characters.

While you would still have to go and get all the WPs, it would be much easier to get around. My biggest problem is finding my way, which leads to me logging in and out of a new character and one that has the map complete. Or going back and forth between the game and maps online, which just takes me away from the game and makes me not want to play.

I’m sure this will get buried though.

If unfog wasn’t also tied to experience, that’d be a decent option. It’d also make skill point/hero challenge running much simpler for those who have several alts.

Rauderi.8706:

Fiddlestyx.9714:

A better solution: Once any character on the account has 100% map completion the fog of war is lifted from all other characters.

While you would still have to go and get all the WPs, it would be much easier to get around. My biggest problem is finding my way, which leads to me logging in and out of a new character and one that has the map complete. Or going back and forth between the game and maps online, which just takes me away from the game and makes me not want to play.

I’m sure this will get buried though.

If unfog wasn’t also tied to experience, that’d be a decent option. It’d also make skill point/hero challenge running much simpler for those who have several alts.

They could maybe shift the unfog exp into hearts, WPs etc. I haven’t done a map in a while so I’m not sure really how big the exp gains from unfog are.

I wouldn’t mind it. If anything just have the waypoint cost be double or triple to travel to them on alts that haven’t been there yet.

I’ve been a firm believer that as the reward for getting 100% map completion the first time, it should unlock all way points on your Alts… Just my opinion. Because I personally prefer PvP/WvW, so I hate PVE with a fiery passion. If I only had to do it once, but still allow me to do Guild Missions, with my alts, without running across maps that I didn’t unlock on them, that would be a huge win!

Just because the OP mentioned a necromancer, it doesn’t mean you have to necro the thread.

As for that bit about hating PvE: I hate PvP, so can completing a reward track unlock a button that gives me the rewards again when pressed? Maybe the option to flip Stonemist when I load into WvW because I’ve done it once? Then again, I’m not a fan of raid content either. Maybe, after completing it once, all my characters could be kitted out in ascended gear with a choice of stats and start at the boss chest? It doesn’t work like that.

Crystallize.8603:

15 mins from Mt Maelstrom to Arah on a Mesmer. 37 mins total for all dungeon WPs and I got lost a couple of times :P
If thats too much effort, why are you making more alts (note. It doesn’t all have to be done in 1 day)

What you’re saying is, Anet could make this waypoint item, charge people 5-10$, and all it does is save the player 40~ mins of running around. This sounds like a win-win for Anet.