Guild Wars 2

Hi, Isaiah Cartwright wrote about two upcoming fractal changes. See the post here:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/fractals-of-the-mists-dungeon-improvements/?utm_source=client

I had two questions about the second portion…
Suppose the group fractal level make up is as follows:

Player 1 (fractal level 2)
Player 2 (fractal level 21)
Player 3 (fractal level 21)
Player 4 (fractal level 21)
Player 5 (fractal level 53)

How is difficulty in the fractal scaled? Both in terms of boss hitpoints, damage done from the boss to the players, and agony? Will agony only be placed on the players above a certain fractal level, or will it have a chance to land on that level 2 player(he/she without agony resist)

2. And just to confirm: If we decided to do fractal level 54, will everyone including the lvl 53 player increase in level?

Thanks!

The difficulty will still be based on what the leader decides what the scale will be. Agony, I’m assuming, will still be applied at fractal 10+ (including for the lvl 2 player).

And yes, all players will scale up one level in 53 is completed in that group setup

I would like to know if ANet plan to add more uses for karma in to the game or even karma specific fractal items. I do not know about other players but having even more karma is useless to me and that as a reward is zero incentive for me to do a lower level dificulty. In the example the level 53 player would receive scaled down rewards (no incentive) and karma (again no point).

I wonder where the level ranges they talked about implementing a while ago went. It’s nice they are adding this fix, but the other method seemed more effective.

The way I thought it would work is that you went in the level 1-10 set and anyone in that range in the party would level up on completion.

Once you hit 11 then you leveled up by doing the 11-20 group. 21, the level 21-30 group.

That way players could find groups easier and wouldn’t be facing escalating agony effects before they had the tools to deal with them. Without a way to inspect individual levels, this new implementation looks like players could just lie about their level to get in to the first party available and a Fractal lvl2 player will get omgwtflolpwnd by agony from a fractal level 45 boss.

2 important issues here …

1. Already not enough good karma sinks in game ( hoping for better karma rewards )
2. End of January ,

I dont care about the timeline. Thrilled its being addressed.

I thought that the grouping(1-10, 11-20) was a better idea. But think of it this way: As a level 2 player, going into a lvl 20 fractal there really is no difference other than more being dished out, mob health increased maybe, a new mechanic here or there. Nothing changes on your end. You still would be completing that lvl 20 fractal in the same exotic set, with your same “skill” as you would a level 2 fractal.. So I guess its OK.

I just hope that the level 2 player in the level 20 fractal doesnt get hit with agony. AND, and I highly doubt arenanet has thought of this: If that level 2 player is not included in the list of players to be targeted for agony, is that extra agony application applied somewhere else? Basically, are the other 4 people going to bear the brunt of more agony because the 5th player, a level 2, cannot receive it? This may still create player gated content where high levels still dont want to run with low levels because they dont want more agony.

Food for thought.

Decrypter.1785:

2 important issues here …

1. Already not enough good karma sinks in game ( hoping for better karma rewards )
2. End of January ,

I agree karma s pretty much worthless for a lot of people

I hope they add a way for us to view others true fractal level as well as gear, especially agony resist.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I hope they add a way for us to view others true fractal level as well as gear, especially agony resist.

Why? Whats the point of this change then? You’ll then be encouraging the current player gated content methodology which is terrible for fractals right now. Bad idea. If they allow people to view gear, fractal level, agony resist…might as well not change a kitten thing in the way levels are handled.

cesmode.4257:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I hope they add a way for us to view others true fractal level as well as gear, especially agony resist.

Why? Whats the point of this change then? You’ll then be encouraging the current player gated content methodology which is terrible for fractals right now. Bad idea. If they allow people to view gear, fractal level, agony resist…might as well not change a kitten thing in the way levels are handled.

Because then you’d be forced to try to do level 30 fractals with people who haven’t gotten past level 4, have rare MF armor, no agony resist, and are trying to get carried.

I don’t want to have to deal with someone who doesn’t have the necessary gear, experience and player skill required for higher level fractals.

All seems good. I hope they have plans to reduce the extreme RNG nature of fractal weapon drops, either by making them tradable, or having a token system. Getting weapons you can’t use or trade, with absolutely awesome skins is a depressing waste of time :p

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

cesmode.4257:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I hope they add a way for us to view others true fractal level as well as gear, especially agony resist.

Why? Whats the point of this change then? You’ll then be encouraging the current player gated content methodology which is terrible for fractals right now. Bad idea. If they allow people to view gear, fractal level, agony resist…might as well not change a kitten thing in the way levels are handled.

Because then you’d be forced to try to do level 30 fractals with people who haven’t gotten past level 4, have rare MF armor, no agony resist, and are trying to get carried.

I don’t want to have to deal with someone who doesn’t have the necessary gear, experience and player skill required for higher level fractals.

Still…If agony doesnt hit low level players, what changes? Youre not becoming a better player as your fractal level increases.

no one will take the fractal 2 player since he has no agony resistance.

the system is good for people with alts that are fed with ascended stuff from their main with constant guild parties who want to level alts. still won’t do kitten for the true low level characters who are pugging.

i don’t see the point of this change apart from the karma bonus.

It only took two months to do something that should have been done on release.

alcopaul.2156:

no one will take the fractal 2 player since he has no agony resistance.

the system is good for people with alts that are fed with ascended stuff from their main with constant guild parties who want to level alts. still won’t do kitten for the true low level characters who are pugging.

i don’t see the point of this change apart from the karma bonus.

Again, assume agony does not hit that level 2. Now does your mindset change?

cesmode.4257:

alcopaul.2156:

no one will take the fractal 2 player since he has no agony resistance.

the system is good for people with alts that are fed with ascended stuff from their main with constant guild parties who want to level alts. still won’t do kitten for the true low level characters who are pugging.

i don’t see the point of this change apart from the karma bonus.

Again, assume agony does not hit that level 2. Now does your mindset change?

my mindset doesn’t change because what your saying is only an assumption.

Right. So lets not jump to conclusions JUST yet until they give us more detail on how this will work.

These changes are nice, but they are just a band-aid fix for a larger problem.

The real problem is Agony and the many different Fractal levels, remove Agony and remove ALL Fractal difficulty levels.

Agony is incredibly flawed and has never worked in other games and dose not work in this game.

The multiple Fractal levels forcefully separates the entire player base, even with these new changes added it makes the different Fractal levels into a painful, disgusting GRIND, map chat will be spammed with people looking for a player who has access to a high Fractal level, players then forced to repeatably GRIND there way repeatably through the same dungeons with this higher Fractal level player just to be equal to him.

The entire dungeon is flawed but i doubt any serious action will be taken to fix it, after all they need to feed the WoW players some sort of “progression” to keep them happy.

God why!? You just allowed low (fractal) levels farm high levels! This change should be good for constant groups. But they rarely have this problem. But after this patch all not experienced players will try to join high levels to farm ascended. It will be black day for all experienced players.

Why not let people choose from 1-5 levels? For example:
1 player: 1 lvl
2-5 players – over 9000 levels

they can choose 1-5. After completion 1 player have 5th level. Now they can choose from 5 to 10.

After 4 cycles all will be high enough to find a group for theirs levels without problems.

And… end of january? Really?

cesmode.4257:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

cesmode.4257:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I hope they add a way for us to view others true fractal level as well as gear, especially agony resist.

Why? Whats the point of this change then? You’ll then be encouraging the current player gated content methodology which is terrible for fractals right now. Bad idea. If they allow people to view gear, fractal level, agony resist…might as well not change a kitten thing in the way levels are handled.

Because then you’d be forced to try to do level 30 fractals with people who haven’t gotten past level 4, have rare MF armor, no agony resist, and are trying to get carried.

I don’t want to have to deal with someone who doesn’t have the necessary gear, experience and player skill required for higher level fractals.

Still…If agony doesnt hit low level players, what changes? Youre not becoming a better player as your fractal level increases.

1. But it will hit low level players.

2. Yes you are. You learn more about fractals and difficult encounters. A pug whose highest level is 30 is going to be better in fractals than a pug whose highest level is 6, 9 times out of 10. The higher levels weed out lesser skilled players.

ezd.6359:

God why!? You just allowed low (fractal) levels farm high levels! This change should be good for constant groups. But they rarely have this problem. But after this patch all not experienced players will try to join high levels to farm ascended. It will be black day for all experienced players.

Why not let people choose from 1-5 levels? For example:
1 player: 1 lvl
2-5 players – over 9000 levels

they can choose 1-5. After completion 1 player have 5th level. Now they can choose from 5 to 10.

After 4 cycles all will be high enough to find a group for theirs levels without problems.

And… end of january? Really?

they could do it by level range. a level 1 can be carried by level 2 up to level 10. level 11 can be carried by level 12-20. dot dot dot.

I think a tiered system (1-9 one group, 10-19 second group) is better. This no gate whatsoever approach is too extreme and too exploitable, destroy pugs, and stretch the wealth discrepancy between big guilds and casual players even further.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

cesmode.4257:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

cesmode.4257:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I hope they add a way for us to view others true fractal level as well as gear, especially agony resist.

Why? Whats the point of this change then? You’ll then be encouraging the current player gated content methodology which is terrible for fractals right now. Bad idea. If they allow people to view gear, fractal level, agony resist…might as well not change a kitten thing in the way levels are handled.

Because then you’d be forced to try to do level 30 fractals with people who haven’t gotten past level 4, have rare MF armor, no agony resist, and are trying to get carried.

I don’t want to have to deal with someone who doesn’t have the necessary gear, experience and player skill required for higher level fractals.

Still…If agony doesnt hit low level players, what changes? Youre not becoming a better player as your fractal level increases.

1. But it will hit low level players.

2. Yes you are. You learn more about fractals and difficult encounters. A pug whose highest level is 30 is going to be better in fractals than a pug whose highest level is 6, 9 times out of 10. The higher levels weed out lesser skilled players.

They said nothing about whether or not it will hit low level players. We have to wait and see.

And after a few fractal levels, its all the same BS. Honestly, Im no better at fractals now than when I was at lvl 5. Its the same. Youre not growing as a player. Thats just a load.

You guys seem to assume that a high fractal level = skill. It just means that you’ve had more time to run fractals than the next guy.

Nice change, but no serious group will take an Engineer after the Wintersday patch so what’s the point?

To be honest, I think the players that welcomed ascended gear and whatever “gear treadmill” will be upset about this because this reduces their separation from the rest of the crowd. They can no longer sit atop of the fractal mountain at level 50, look down at the peon at level 5, folding his arms across his digital chest.

Me personally, I am not at a low level fractal myself, but I am certainly not at 40 or 50. I do not consider myself poorly skilled, or better skilled than the next guy. Im welcoming any change that reduces the wait time to get into fractals, and reduces the amount of player-gated content. I just hope this works they way they intend it to.

I think it’s a great idea, yes karma isn’t such a great reward and won’t attract ‘hardcore’ player because it doesn’t have enough value(coughmakeracialarmorcostkarmacoughcough) but, who wants to play with those type of people anyway? This will give the common player that doesn’t farm karma something to do, a little extra nudge, not amazing but good.

Still curious how agony is going to work though.

EDIT: Wow, could the comment above me get any more egotistical and prejudiced? Because, if they don’t agree with you, they must be horrible people that want to set themselves above the common players as gods right? I’m sorry, but if anybody around here has a superiority complex, it’s you.

i hope they show the true level of each persons in the party.

otherwise, if you played badly coz of reasons unknown, you will be suspected of being a low level in your party, even if your level 50.

Just make sure they show the fractal level so you can still make viable level 30+ groups and everything will be a-ok!

alcopaul.2156:

ezd.6359:

God why!? You just allowed low (fractal) levels farm high levels! This change should be good for constant groups. But they rarely have this problem. But after this patch all not experienced players will try to join high levels to farm ascended. It will be black day for all experienced players.

Why not let people choose from 1-5 levels? For example:
1 player: 1 lvl
2-5 players – over 9000 levels

they can choose 1-5. After completion 1 player have 5th level. Now they can choose from 5 to 10.

After 4 cycles all will be high enough to find a group for theirs levels without problems.

And… end of january? Really?

they could do it by level range. a level 1 can be carried by level 2 up to level 10. level 11 can be carried by level 12-20. dot dot dot.

Yes, but why not? What the reason behind wasting time in low level fractals? I know – WoW lovers whine about progression. May be it is time correct this mistake? I am very experienced player with lvl 7(!) because i dont want to go fractals with random people, because most of times i only kitten myself for another try. In same time i have friends of different level 3, 5, 6 for example, we all can do any current dungeon in explore mode. But we dont want to waste our time in fractals. Very simple – they are too easy and not fun at all on low levels!

alcopaul.2156:

i hope they show the true level of each persons in the party.

otherwise, if you played badly coz of reasons unknown, you will be suspected of being a low level in your party.

And if your fractal level is shown, and you are a low level, you will be booted without hesitation and this entire change is for nothing. No gear score, no inspections, nothing..is what I vote for. Keep everyone on “equal footing” in eachothers mind. If you stand in fire, thats your own kitten fault and they’ll boot you for standing in the fire, not for your fractal level. Id rather be booted because I screwed up, not because of a number next to my name.

cesmode.4257:

alcopaul.2156:

i hope they show the true level of each persons in the party.

otherwise, if you played badly coz of reasons unknown, you will be suspected of being a low level in your party.

And if your fractal level is shown, and you are a low level, you will be booted without hesitation and this entire change is for nothing. No gear score, no inspections, nothing..is what I vote for. Keep everyone on “equal footing” in eachothers mind. If you stand in fire, thats your own kitten fault and they’ll boot you for standing in the fire, not for your fractal level. Id rather be booted because I screwed up, not because of a number next to my name.

Yeah, I don’t want people in my dailies with no experience (not saying people who aren’t high level have no skill or anything, but are definitely not as experienced with the encounters) when I want to get in and out as fast as possible, but the change helps people who want to group with friends, etc that are on different levels, so it’s not for nothing and is a huge improvement.

I think a lot of people, those that did not dig the ascended gear and fractal system, like myself, are going to watch this very closely. If it isnt done properly to reduce player-gates, I can imagine some more people will either stop running fractals, or worse leave the game. Imagine how fun itll be with less people to group with.

cesmode.4257:

alcopaul.2156:

i hope they show the true level of each persons in the party.

otherwise, if you played badly coz of reasons unknown, you will be suspected of being a low level in your party.

And if your fractal level is shown, and you are a low level, you will be booted without hesitation and this entire change is for nothing. No gear score, no inspections, nothing..is what I vote for. Keep everyone on “equal footing” in eachothers mind. If you stand in fire, thats your own kitten fault and they’ll boot you for standing in the fire, not for your fractal level. Id rather be booted because I screwed up, not because of a number next to my name.

If people boot then they have to wait longer to make a group. This puts choice in the player’s hands. You can’t make a choice without being informed.

I was really happy about this, then I saw it was in over a month. So yeah, a lot of warning for this kind of thing (and 10sec warning for getting kicked out of wvw, hehe)

Heinel.6548:

cesmode.4257:

alcopaul.2156:

i hope they show the true level of each persons in the party.

otherwise, if you played badly coz of reasons unknown, you will be suspected of being a low level in your party.

And if your fractal level is shown, and you are a low level, you will be booted without hesitation and this entire change is for nothing. No gear score, no inspections, nothing..is what I vote for. Keep everyone on “equal footing” in eachothers mind. If you stand in fire, thats your own kitten fault and they’ll boot you for standing in the fire, not for your fractal level. Id rather be booted because I screwed up, not because of a number next to my name.

If people boot then they have to wait longer to make a group. This puts choice in the player’s hands. You can’t make a choice without being informed.

Rephrased: They wont accept a low level player before starting.

What’s to prevent me on my level 80 thief whose at level 2 with full berserker’s gear who is traited purely for offense and is nearly useful in fractals, saying I’m at level 30 with 25 AR and joining a level 30 fractal run in an effort to get carried.

What’s to stop me from putting on full magic find rares and joining a level 40 run, claiming I have full exotic soldiers gear and 25 AR and that I’ve cleared up to 50?

You can do that now in dungeons. Put on magic find gear, with magic find upgrades…noone knows. Trivial issue since its been this way since launch and theres never been much chatter about it. Why start now?

People are forgetting that the example ONLY SHOWED large discrepancies in level ranges. But in reality whats going to happen is that players that wish to progress but can’t (these are players suck in the ODD NUMBER) fractals can’t find people to group with.

This change will give players stuck at fractals of level 1-9 a chance to do level 10s fractal players in order to get their way up while those that are at 10 are just wanting to do their DAILY chest. Also lets be honest, anything before level 40 is rather easy as long as you got some agony resist and not 5 man glass cannon, 5 signet warriors.

But it is true, this is not a TRUE fix but this is MILES ahead of what we have now. I can’t tell you how long its taken me to find a group to advance past 38, yes this is an even number too.

Change = insignificant!

People are already complaining that much of the endgame play is being funneled towards grinding of dungeons, particularly FotM, and the decision is to make playing it even more convenient?

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

What’s to prevent me on my level 80 thief whose at level 2 with full berserker’s gear who is traited purely for offense and is nearly useful in fractals, saying I’m at level 30 with 25 AR and joining a level 30 fractal run in an effort to get carried.

What’s to stop me from putting on full magic find rares and joining a level 40 run, claiming I have full exotic soldiers gear and 25 AR and that I’ve cleared up to 50?

Nothing because they have no idea what they are doing and their design team is the most clueless group of game developers that ever existed.

Fact is, they released this gated system with no foresight as to what will happen when EVERYONE that has a few braincells knew how it would turn out. (and told them so on these forums)

Now they are trying to fix it, which will only make it worse like all the other things they released then “fixed” and are now even more broken than before.

Incompetence is a virtue at this company.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I don’t want to have to deal with someone who doesn’t have the necessary gear, experience and player skill required for higher level fractals.

Then don’t? The upcoming patch will make it so much easier for premade groups to progress together.

I have never been compelled to post here before but I had to say that fractals were the worst possible way to go with expansion material and that this change just adds a whole new element to the train wreck this “expansion” content has become.

It’s a real shame because there were many other paths to take and I think the devs seen this multiple tier system as a way to convey complexity and depth without spending a whole lot of time fleshing out the details. Understandable and yet still deeply regrettable.

I have not and will not take part in fractals despite my having a very capable L80 main in full exotics with more than enough skill and a complement of guild members because I do not see the point in obtaining slightly better gear than I already have that only serves the purpose of allowing me to do higher level fractals.

In my opinion, it is sloppy and rushed content design that has been piled on an amazing game and honestly I feel this content, the way it has been rolled out and even the revisions reflect poorly on the overall concept, manifesto and direction of the game and the genre.

Sorry

That seems to be on the very extreme end when it comes to that change. I mean, a level 2 joining a level 53 Fractal group would be a very extreme example, though I’m sure people trying to build groups for higher fractal levels may request to see if they have a certain amount of Agony Resistance before proceeding.

On the other hand, I guess that means I’ll be able to bring my alts along if I want considering that most of my guild would be 30+ to begin with, and we could start accordingly instead of holding everyone else back.

Better late than never, I suppose.

It is a good, and much needed update However, agony will be an issue for low fractal level players so we’ll start to see people being kicked for not having enough resistance that is the only potential problem with this but overall, it is a good change. Thanks Anet ~ my faith is slowly being restored, one patch at a time =P

I am no Hamster, so I dont care about levels in FotM. I have seen every fractal once or twice, thats enough. FotM is no content to me….

- Remove Agony.
- Remove all Fractal difficult levels.
- Make Ascended gear available through crafting and PVP.

I just fixed the game, your welcome.

alcopaul.2156:

i don’t see the point of this change apart from the karma bonus.

That’s because you’re probably at a high level already.

As a low level fractal player, I can asure you it’s not that easy to find a fractal group. Joining someone else is also pointless, because if the entire party isn’t at the level, then some will miss out. Also, high end players won’t join below level 10 because they won’t get the ascended drops. Now at least, lowbies can join up with the other lowbies and * all gain a level* instead of just one, making group finding a whole lot more likely.

As for the higher levels, not much has changed, but for levels 1-10, it’s a great change. You have no idea how tough it is to catch up and get to the point where we can at least work on making those infused items.

cesmode.4257:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

cesmode.4257:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

cesmode.4257:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I hope they add a way for us to view others true fractal level as well as gear, especially agony resist.

Why? Whats the point of this change then? You’ll then be encouraging the current player gated content methodology which is terrible for fractals right now. Bad idea. If they allow people to view gear, fractal level, agony resist…might as well not change a kitten thing in the way levels are handled.

Because then you’d be forced to try to do level 30 fractals with people who haven’t gotten past level 4, have rare MF armor, no agony resist, and are trying to get carried.

I don’t want to have to deal with someone who doesn’t have the necessary gear, experience and player skill required for higher level fractals.

Still…If agony doesnt hit low level players, what changes? Youre not becoming a better player as your fractal level increases.

1. But it will hit low level players.

2. Yes you are. You learn more about fractals and difficult encounters. A pug whose highest level is 30 is going to be better in fractals than a pug whose highest level is 6, 9 times out of 10. The higher levels weed out lesser skilled players.

They said nothing about whether or not it will hit low level players. We have to wait and see.

And after a few fractal levels, its all the same BS. Honestly, Im no better at fractals now than when I was at lvl 5. Its the same. Youre not growing as a player. Thats just a load.

You guys seem to assume that a high fractal level = skill. It just means that you’ve had more time to run fractals than the next guy.

My experience is the total opposite. Since doing fractals and going to higher levels. I have improved my gameplayer by alot and have gotten better as a player. The harder difficulty on level 30+ makes you think about new ways to play your char to adapt to the encounter at hand.

I think the change is great, now I can play with my guildmates on whatever level we can reasonable do. Because your level 2 player wont survive 16+.

In pugs, I am sure to ask everyone to link his ar gear before they join in. If its not apropriate for the level area the group is going hes not coming. You need 25 AR at least on level 26+ to not be a strong burden to your group.

However this change will also be awesome for my ALTS. I have 8 chars fully equipped and ready to roll. Nearly every one of those has the rings that I farm on my main. So I can jump straight into level 20+ with my alts instead of having to grind from level 1 again. Makes it easier to provide the group with the class it needs.

Eldiora.5836:

However this change will also be awesome for my ALTS. I have 8 chars fully equipped and ready to roll. Nearly every one of those has the rings that I farm on my main. So I can jump straight into level 20+ with my alts instead of having to grind from level 1 again. Makes it easier to provide the group with the class it needs.

Unfortunately,

Rewards from the fractal will be based on players’ personal reward level as long as the reward level is equal to or lower than the chosen fractal level.

So you will be incentivised to do it on your character with the highest fractal level, unless you intend to ignore the rewards.

I think to many of you forget that the ascended gear in fractals is acount bound so just because the person is at level 1 doesnt always mean they arent properly equiped to face agony in later levels of fractals since everything is bound per character for your current fractal level this change will allow people with alts to effectively join in groups and still raise their own levels.