Guild Wars 2

Ensign.2189:

John Smith.4610:

Kind of ironically, his work is more applicable to a game economy than a real economy.

I don’t follow – Keynes’ insights flow from introducing transaction lags and breaking the neutrality of money via finance, neither of which applies to a game economy (at least, not to the GW2 economy). What parts do you think describe the GW2 economy well?

I think John’s speaking more along the lines that government (Anet) intervention is necessary to keep the economy in check. This is true with GW2, since Anet is always making adjustments behind the scenes to artificially influence prices. Example: Over abundant Silk? Increase the cost to make bolts, and introduce Ascended recipes that make Silk highly desirable, thus increasing values.

So for Anet to take a step back and let us move the economy on our own, that’s basically anti-Keynesian.

So let me sum this up:

Anet leaves the market to those handful players heavily influencing the market. And call this then a “healthy economy”.

But I guess, its an american thing, that kind of logic. After all, americans still believe in trickle-down-theory also.

Here’s an easy fix to inflated prices, Mr Smith:
Limit the amount of possible buy orders per item per account to 1k.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Ensign.2189:

John Smith.4610:

Kind of ironically, his work is more applicable to a game economy than a real economy.

I don’t follow – Keynes’ insights flow from introducing transaction lags and breaking the neutrality of money via finance, neither of which applies to a game economy (at least, not to the GW2 economy). What parts do you think describe the GW2 economy well?

I think John’s speaking more along the lines that government (Anet) intervention is necessary to keep the economy in check. This is true with GW2, since Anet is always making adjustments behind the scenes to artificially influence prices. Example: Over abundant Silk? Increase the cost to make bolts, and introduce Ascended recipes that make Silk highly desirable, thus increasing values.

So for Anet to take a step back and let us move the economy on our own, that’s basically anti-Keynesian.

However, a key difference is unlike a true economy is you can’t have unlimited types of goods available because a single consumer is going to hold what they perceive as rare. In order to continue demand over the life cycle of an economy in a MMO, products (items) must be reused even across expansions/major developments.

The #1 issue of the present day GW2 economy is that there has become too many “currency-related” items (like those mentioned earlier) and various types of “keys” since every new map/every new major update (like raids/fractals/PvP/WvW) has added multiple currencies or locks to currencies/items in the game and to every game mode.

This forces players to retain items over and over (stock piling behavior) as oppose to recycling (balancing supply with demand via trade post) because the consumer/player knows they can not attain said item/currency again without going back to old content.

If ANet is to play governmental regulation authority, it needs to have one standard currency (gold) be the underlying currency.

To begin to stir the ship back to calmer waters, my suggestion is to use similar functional vendors like the Carnival weapon set whereby the vendor sells objects but purchased cheaper from the map event (using things like vouchers) but straight up gold can be used as well or in addition to as an alternative. This serves multiple purposes that balances the economy by creating large gold sinks and allows access to primary WvW/PvP players (new untapped consumers creating more demand) that normally would not do the PvE-related content. The key is to have an option to purchase said items for gold as an alternative creating a more liquid economy.

FYI – And while we are at it, let’s have a pass on currencies like vouchers added to the wallet. Something for the intern to do

I’d wager that with markets like T6 leather, the playerbase has more sway than a couple of rich boiz trying to manipulate the market.

Mystic coins maybe yeah but leather is 100% on ANet for introducing so many sinks and not so many sources.

Yasi.9065:

So let me sum this up:

Anet leaves the market to those handful players heavily influencing the market. And call this then a “healthy economy”.

But I guess, its an american thing, that kind of logic. After all, americans still believe in trickle-down-theory also.

Here’s an easy fix to inflated prices, Mr Smith:
Limit the amount of possible buy orders per item per account to 1k.

That would be harmful.

Astralporing.1957:

OriOri.8724:

sophiewhite.3149:

mauried.5608:

Whats the average ingame income of a GW2 player?

how much time are we talking? i make 100 a day but i also farm a lot.

I can guarantee that is way above average from looking at GW2Efficiency……..

The average wealth of accounts (taken from https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value) is between ~5-10 gold / hour all the way up to accounts that have played well over 4,000 hours in the game. And that takes into account all of the sources of “wealth” you may have, so it is far higher than the liquid gold that people have.

Just judging from that alone, you make 10 – 20 times more gold / hour than the average player does, if not even more (my bet is closer to 25-30)

A quote from the past

John Smith

In the last week, the median player earned less than 3 gold in the new content (that’s discounting all players who earned less than 1 gold).

Just so you remember the context: that was during the first Queen’s Gauntlet events, where you could earn over 20 g per hour from Deadeye farming, or farm champions in the Arena below for some really massive (even using nowadays standards) income. Don’t remember if the post was made after Scarlet Invasions already started as well (though i think it was). Even relatively casual players could easily earn over 100g per day then.
…and a median active player didn’t manage to earn 3 gold. In a whole week.

Somehow i don’t think it has changed that much, and so i am 99% certain that even the efficiency data is significantly above the real one.

Woah. I knew that most players didn’t participate in farming, but this blew my mind. I didn’t realize that the discrepancy was so high. I agree with you though, I believe that this hasn’t actually changed that much in the past 3 years. The numbers may have inflated some, but I doubt that the % difference between average players and those who actively farm has decreased at all.

Astralporing.1957:

Even relatively casual players could easily earn over 100g per day then.
…and a median active player didn’t manage to earn 3 gold. In a whole week.

Somehow i don’t think it has changed that much, and so i am 99% certain that even the efficiency data is significantly above the real one.

I’d bet that it has. Even the new (since then) 2g dailies should have shot that up a bit. Add on top of that mat price increases that came with ascended and HoT stats, even those not specifically farming mats make more from the mats they do come across and sell.

However, I do agree with you on the efficiency data.

~EW

(given my gambling skills, you’re probably right and it wouldn’t be a good idea for me to place too much on my bet. )

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think John’s speaking more along the lines that government (Anet) intervention is necessary to keep the economy in check.

A.Net doesn’t play the role of government in the economy though, at least not in the sense of where you put government into an accounting identity (though there are some regulatory roles like the transaction tax that’s analogous).

The changes A.Net makes to intervene in the market are more akin to big technology changes or resource finds. The silk and leather changes were akin to radical, instantaneous de-teching of those production processes; HoT was akin to the west discovering the Americas.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So for Anet to take a step back and let us move the economy on our own, that’s basically anti-Keynesian.

I…guess. Admittedly Keynesian means something very different to me (thinking about academic economics) and to people in general. When you say Keynesian to me, I think of breaking the symmetry between the short run and the long run that existed in classical economics. It’s the insight that in the short run, changes in demand have their biggest impact on output, not prices (as you would expect under classical theory). From this follows the insight that in the short run, output is demand, not supply, limited.

Which…doesn’t seem to apply all that much to the game economy. I think that prices on the trading post fluctuate far more in response to demand changes than player’s outputs from playing the game.

The much further downstream, widely misunderstood ideas about unemployment, inflation, and the possibility / desirability of state intervention on those issues don’t seem to apply at all. Is there such a thing as unemployment in GW2? How can you have wage/price spirals without wages? It seems to me that classical models would hold a whole lot better, since many of the deviations driving Keynesian insights don’t seem to apply.

But again, that’s what it means to me – I’m not sure what Keynesian inspired ideas John is thinking about, let alone what the public thinks Keynesian ideas means, and I’d be interested in knowing what he’s thinking.

John Smith.4610:

That is more what I’m referring to. Also because in a game economy there is the ability to opt-out of the economy entirely with little cost. This means that death spiral are far more likely and more common without strong regulation, especially with content changes.

Short version: I’m answering the question of ‘is 27s per hardened leather section a reasonable price given the fundamental input/output/inventory/risk profile of the item?’ (sure it is, given inelasticity and non-substitutability).

You have an additional constraint of ‘is the game rewarding / fun with this price profile?’, as well as the concern of ‘what can we do about this / can we do anything about this?’, which are…less well examined questions.

A reasonable price is what people will pay for the item.
The TP seems pretty healthy to me as theres always plenty of stuff to buy and there seems to be plenty of turnover.
Whenever I do the Tarir invasion event in AB, you get loads of stuff from all the chests and I generally sell it all on the TP with no trouble finding buyers for most of it.
In MMOs the economic side of the game is not essential, unlike the real world, so its not necessary to buy anything to play the game.

mauried.5608:

A reasonable price is what people will pay for the item.
The TP seems pretty healthy to me as theres always plenty of stuff to buy and there seems to be plenty of turnover.
Whenever I do the Tarir invasion event in AB, you get loads of stuff from all the chests and I generally sell it all on the TP with no trouble finding buyers for most of it.
In MMOs the economic side of the game is not essential, unlike the real world, so its not necessary to buy anything to play the game.

id like to strongly disagree if you need to make a legendary. youll never get 100 charged lodestones for example from just playing the game

I have no idea why the concept of buying them from the TP so anathema for some people and insist you are suppose to acquire everything from your own labors.

You can farm charged loadstones from map rewards (may take 4 or 5 months) and even craft them. It’s for a Legendary, it is suppose to take a long time to craft, especially if you choose to “free range” all the mats yourself.

Why cant you get 100+ charged lodestones from playing the game?
Is there a hardware coded maximum limit per player?

mauried.5608:

Why cant you get 100+ charged lodestones from playing the game?
Is there a hardware coded maximum limit per player?

they are a extremely rare drop. its just not common to get them. which is why 100 costs about 200 gold

Use Map Rewards. That’s why they instituted said rewards. Or use the MF to upgrade them.

I wish all crafting materials and trophies would be valuable. There are too many “junk” materials barely worth more than a few copper/silver

mauried.5608:

Why cant you get 100+ charged lodestones from playing the game?
Is there a hardware coded maximum limit per player?

You can, but just like any rare drops in large numbers it takes dedicated farming. Added to that: patience and time.

When I’ve farmed them, i get on average 1 per 15 min… after an hour I’ll have 3-5, and I’ll go do something else before DR kicks in too badly. Doing this 1/day you could conceivably get all 100 in about a month…

…way too much time investment for some folks… but imo if you’re making something called a “legendary” it should take a massive amount of work and time investment. Ymmv….

… but that’s just one means to get them by playing.

~EW

Behellagh.1468:

I have no idea why the concept of buying them from the TP so anathema for some people and insist you are suppose to acquire everything from your own labors.

You can farm charged loadstones from map rewards (may take 4 or 5 months) and even craft them. It’s for a Legendary, it is suppose to take a long time to craft, especially if you choose to “free range” all the mats yourself.

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

sophiewhite.3149:

mauried.5608:

Why cant you get 100+ charged lodestones from playing the game?
Is there a hardware coded maximum limit per player?

they are a extremely rare drop. its just not common to get them. which is why 100 costs about 200 gold

But it’s still possible to do so. If one is not in any hurry to get the legendary, then rare drops don’t matter as much.

OriOri.8724:

Behellagh.1468:

I have no idea why the concept of buying them from the TP so anathema for some people and insist you are suppose to acquire everything from your own labors.

You can farm charged loadstones from map rewards (may take 4 or 5 months) and even craft them. It’s for a Legendary, it is suppose to take a long time to craft, especially if you choose to “free range” all the mats yourself.

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

You don’t have to buy it from the TP. If you are in a rush or don’t like to progress as slow as it would take getting it from drops and salvages, then you buy from the TP.

Granted, they should increase the drop rate of leather or the salvage rate of it.

Malediktus.3740:

I wish all crafting materials and trophies would be valuable. There are too many “junk” materials barely worth more than a few copper/silver

If only they had something like Nicholas the Traveler who would exchange a gift for a stack or two of low level mats each week. That would soak up some of that excess, worthless low level mats and put some value to them. It would bring income to low level players. It would make those map bonuses worth more and bring some players to the lower and mid level maps.

The log thing is backward. As one who has actually milled my own lumber, a log should give you several planks. Just saying. Oh and pine is not a hard wood.

Seera.5916:

OriOri.8724:

Behellagh.1468:

I have no idea why the concept of buying them from the TP so anathema for some people and insist you are suppose to acquire everything from your own labors.

You can farm charged loadstones from map rewards (may take 4 or 5 months) and even craft them. It’s for a Legendary, it is suppose to take a long time to craft, especially if you choose to “free range” all the mats yourself.

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

You don’t have to buy it from the TP. If you are in a rush or don’t like to progress as slow as it would take getting it from drops and salvages, then you buy from the TP.

Granted, they should increase the drop rate of leather or the salvage rate of it.

You need over 1,000 T5 raw leather just to make 1 medium ascended chest piece. With the current drop rate for leather you really don’t have an option other than buying from the TP unless you want to wait for months and months to be able to craft a set. That is not comparable. As long as leather remains needed in the quantities it is now, it needs to be made more available (aka, increase salvage rate, decrease # needed for refinement)

After reading through here, I’ve seen what appears to be some misunderstandings. In a free market based system, prices convey signals to producers as well as consumers.

Example (totally hypothetical, prices not to scale):
-Green wood costs 1 copper.
-Green wood is commonly used in low level crafting.
-With wood prices at 1 copper, it incentivises consumers to buy this material while also turning potential producers away from this material.
-With no incentives to produce green wood, it will be bought faster than it is marketed.
-This causes supply to go down and prices to up.
-Now green wood is 3 silver, which provides incentive for the producers to produce and sell green logs and also turns some consumers away from buying them.
-The green wood market will begin to turn, as supply becomes more abundant and prices drop.
-This ebb and flow will continue until the market reaches a stabilized point in which the peaks and valleys of prices aren’t very drastic.

Granted, this all assumes a perfect market and a consistent way of producing materials. Unfortunately, GW2 doesn’t provide “consistent” way to produce specific materials. For example, there may be a shortage in leather, but with no consistent way to farm this specific material, there’s no consistent way for producers to sell this. In my opinion, that is one of the main issues the economy faces. How can producers match an increase in demand if the supply is not able to be farmed efficiently? This is what causes some prices to rise more than others.

This is just my opinion on the situation based on what I’ve learned in macroeconomics classes and various market based lectures. None of this may apply to a video game market, as this is obviously not my area of expertise.

bplayz.1957:

None of this may apply to a video game market, as this is obviously not my area of expertise.

It more or less does and the market in GW2 is much more simple than reality or even games like EvE. Everyone has access to the sources of supply so things are kept simple.

The wrench in the works is that people tend to gravitate to what is easy and/or fun because this is a leisure activity first and foremost where wealth is almost a 100% superfluous thing. A person with 1,000g net worth is just as functional and capable as someone with 10,000,000 net worth. There’s very little hard drive to gain wealth for objective benefit here.

Thus, you end up having people shy away from things that would look good on paper but don’t end up panning out in reality. Wood is a great example. In your world, yes, people would flock to nodes and the price would reach a healthy equilibrium as intended by the devs who placed the nodes and made the recipes. In reality, people just don’t want to mindlessly do circuits around maps mining trees over and over and thus the price for some logs is much higher than others. Same goes for ore like platinum.

It’s also worth noting that the average gamer likes playing fantasy adventure games to slay the monster for treasure. Not many play these kinds of games to RP a lumberjack/miner who shows up to gather his daily quota to earn a salary.

MMO gamers love grinding but it’s because more mainstream games aim to trigger the Pavlovian response with infrequent, but still reliable, drops. A slow trickle of wealth that can be turned in for a reward down the line doesn’t trigger this even if such a system is much less RNG heavy and thus “more fair”.

Substance E.4852:

The wrench in the works is that people tend to gravitate to what is easy and/or fun because this is a leisure activity first and foremost where wealth is almost a 100% superfluous thing.

That’s a very good point! I didn’t consider the fact that in the real world you need wealth (maybe not a lot, but some) to live. This isn’t the case in a game.

bplayz.1957:

How can producers match an increase in demand if the supply is not able to be farmed efficiently? This is what causes some prices to rise more than others.

Yep. If you want to plot it out, most goods in GW2 have an inelastic supply – even if the price moves substantially, the supply doesn’t change very much. That makes prices very volatile with changes in demand.

Items that have very elastic supply (iron and platinum ore, for instance) have had stable prices for some time, as big changes in demand just get more people to hit those nodes, dampening the price swings.

OriOri.8724:

Seera.5916:

OriOri.8724:

Behellagh.1468:

I have no idea why the concept of buying them from the TP so anathema for some people and insist you are suppose to acquire everything from your own labors.

You can farm charged loadstones from map rewards (may take 4 or 5 months) and even craft them. It’s for a Legendary, it is suppose to take a long time to craft, especially if you choose to “free range” all the mats yourself.

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

You don’t have to buy it from the TP. If you are in a rush or don’t like to progress as slow as it would take getting it from drops and salvages, then you buy from the TP.

Granted, they should increase the drop rate of leather or the salvage rate of it.

You need over 1,000 T5 raw leather just to make 1 medium ascended chest piece. With the current drop rate for leather you really don’t have an option other than buying from the TP unless you want to wait for months and months to be able to craft a set. That is not comparable. As long as leather remains needed in the quantities it is now, it needs to be made more available (aka, increase salvage rate, decrease # needed for refinement)

And if you’ll notice, I have said in other replies that the generation of leather does need to be increased.

It’s just not true to say that players have to buy leather from the TP. Players that don’t do fractals or raids or WvW wouldn’t be hurt at at all by taking ages to get the leather on their own. And it would serve as a nice long term goal. Because some players, like myself, need a long term goal to work toward. And the end result isn’t what we’re after by choosing to take the long road to getting it. I do, personally, buy some mats when I’ve got a decent amount of gold. Right now, I’m currently working on Meteorlogicus and I’m crafting the precursor.

Kamara.4187:

The log thing is backward. As one who has actually milled my own lumber, a log should give you several planks. Just saying. Oh and pine is not a hard wood.

This is the thing that angers me the most about crafting and why I generally hate it.

I assume my troglodyte of a character, who only knows murder and war, looks at the 3 logs and just beats them against each other, screaming like a madman the entire time, until all that is left is one rough plank and a cloud of sawdust and sweat.

Don’t get me started on cooking…

Kylden Ar.3724:

Kamara.4187:

The log thing is backward. As one who has actually milled my own lumber, a log should give you several planks. Just saying. Oh and pine is not a hard wood.

This is the thing that angers me the most about crafting and why I generally hate it.

I assume my troglodyte of a character, who only knows murder and war, looks at the 3 logs and just beats them against each other, screaming like a madman the entire time, until all that is left is one rough plank and a cloud of sawdust and sweat.

Don’t get me started on cooking…

Do you see the size of the “trees” we cut down? They’re saplings. Unless we are making window, door and floor trim, we aren’t going to get more than a couple of 1×3s.

MaX.7401:

So, from these basics assumptions, John Smith has decided to follow his former mentor Adam Smith and his invisible hand ?

Adam Smith would be rolling in his grave if he knew how people used his work to justify unfettered free markets.

This thread has had 32025 people read it so far, but only 183 people have chosen to respond.
Thats 0.57%.
What does that tell you?

mauried.5608:

This thread has had 32025 people read it so far, but only 183 people have chosen to respond.
Thats 0.57%.
What does that tell you?

Everyone likes a show.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

mauried.5608:

This thread has had 32025 people read it so far, but only 183 people have chosen to respond.
Thats 0.57%.
What does that tell you?

Everyone likes a show.

~EW

Or maybe some of them, like myself, have no personal expertise in RL or game economics and won’t pretend to have it just to weigh in. Yet we (I) still like to glean out what we can learn from these discussions as well as keep a finger on the pulse of player opinions about ANet’s actions, however little this tiny cross-section of the populace may be.

mauried.5608:

This thread has had 32025 people read it so far, but only 183 people have chosen to respond.
Thats 0.57%.
What does that tell you?

That there are a lot of people interested in this thread. The low % of posters may indicate, that many of them either have no opinion (unlikely, people generally do like to have opinions, even when they have no knowledge on the subject) or they agree with what has already been posted and don’t feel the need to add to it.
(also, f2p players can read, but cannot post)

That any thread with a Dev post gets more views than those without?

Seera.5916:

OriOri.8724:

Seera.5916:

OriOri.8724:

Behellagh.1468:

I have no idea why the concept of buying them from the TP so anathema for some people and insist you are suppose to acquire everything from your own labors.

You can farm charged loadstones from map rewards (may take 4 or 5 months) and even craft them. It’s for a Legendary, it is suppose to take a long time to craft, especially if you choose to “free range” all the mats yourself.

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

You don’t have to buy it from the TP. If you are in a rush or don’t like to progress as slow as it would take getting it from drops and salvages, then you buy from the TP.

Granted, they should increase the drop rate of leather or the salvage rate of it.

You need over 1,000 T5 raw leather just to make 1 medium ascended chest piece. With the current drop rate for leather you really don’t have an option other than buying from the TP unless you want to wait for months and months to be able to craft a set. That is not comparable. As long as leather remains needed in the quantities it is now, it needs to be made more available (aka, increase salvage rate, decrease # needed for refinement)

And if you’ll notice, I have said in other replies that the generation of leather does need to be increased.

It’s just not true to say that players have to buy leather from the TP. Players that don’t do fractals or raids or WvW wouldn’t be hurt at at all by taking ages to get the leather on their own. And it would serve as a nice long term goal. Because some players, like myself, need a long term goal to work toward. And the end result isn’t what we’re after by choosing to take the long road to getting it. I do, personally, buy some mats when I’ve got a decent amount of gold. Right now, I’m currently working on Meteorlogicus and I’m crafting the precursor.

I see your point, but I don’t think that ascended armor is currently supposed to be this long term goal that leather makes it be (at least medium ascended armor). If it was then the mats for light and heavy armor would be equally hard to come by, yet they aren’t. Plus we have plenty of other, much longer term, goals than an ascended set. Legendary weapons, collections etc… are what should be considered long term goals imo.

Behellagh.1468:

Kylden Ar.3724:

Kamara.4187:

The log thing is backward. As one who has actually milled my own lumber, a log should give you several planks. Just saying. Oh and pine is not a hard wood.

This is the thing that angers me the most about crafting and why I generally hate it.

I assume my troglodyte of a character, who only knows murder and war, looks at the 3 logs and just beats them against each other, screaming like a madman the entire time, until all that is left is one rough plank and a cloud of sawdust and sweat.

Don’t get me started on cooking…

Do you see the size of the “trees” we cut down? They’re saplings. Unless we are making window, door and floor trim, we aren’t going to get more than a couple of 1×3s.

LOL Kylden. Thanks I needed that laugh today.

And Behellagh they may be small but I suppose we have a magic bottle of elmer’s in our back pocket because its three logs to make a single plank

pls nerf the gold from chest. nerf the chest, its driving me nuts, my inventory full because of it.

and nerf the gold, because if it keep like this in 3 years all players will have legendary weapon

Kamara.4187:

Behellagh.1468:

Kylden Ar.3724:

Kamara.4187:

The log thing is backward. As one who has actually milled my own lumber, a log should give you several planks. Just saying. Oh and pine is not a hard wood.

This is the thing that angers me the most about crafting and why I generally hate it.

I assume my troglodyte of a character, who only knows murder and war, looks at the 3 logs and just beats them against each other, screaming like a madman the entire time, until all that is left is one rough plank and a cloud of sawdust and sweat.

Don’t get me started on cooking…

Do you see the size of the “trees” we cut down? They’re saplings. Unless we are making window, door and floor trim, we aren’t going to get more than a couple of 1×3s.

LOL Kylden. Thanks I needed that laugh today.

And Behellagh they may be small but I suppose we have a magic bottle of elmer’s in our back pocket because its three logs to make a single plank

It’s the same magic adhesive that causes our weapons to stick to our bodies without any straps or holsters. Kind of how like Link used Hylan Velcro to keep his shield and sword on his back in Ocarina of Time.

It’s funny because GW1 had exactly that, PvE skills, and usually some sort of nerfed PvP skills version, but it still worked. Unfortunately, the PvP focused Arena net from GW1 is gone, so we have these casual devs who want to make shiny new things as opposed to polishing their already existing content which needs much polishing. All this update does is Push GW2 closer to a trinity focused gameplay; which the game was designed to not use in the first place. They are trying to promote these “raids”, which are designed completely different outside of the core GW2 PvE, WvW, and PvP content, and it ends up negatively affecting the other 3 modes.

MoZing.1594:

It’s funny because GW1 had exactly that, PvE skills, and usually some sort of nerfed PvP skills version, but it still worked. Unfortunately, the PvP focused Arena net from GW1 is gone, so we have these casual devs who want to make shiny new things as opposed to polishing their already existing content which needs much polishing. All this update does is Push GW2 closer to a trinity focused gameplay; which the game was designed to not use in the first place. They are trying to promote these “raids”, which are designed completely different outside of the core GW2 PvE, WvW, and PvP content, and it ends up negatively affecting the other 3 modes.

I think you wanted the other red posted thread….this has nothing to do with economics.

Smith, I hate the work you have done with the economy.

OriOri.8724:

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

This is a bizarre argument. Why shouldn’t you have to buy things off the TP? The entire game is centered around it, and has been from the beginning. It’s an integral component of the game.

Slashmeehup.1495:

OriOri.8724:

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

This is a bizarre argument. Why shouldn’t you have to buy things off the TP? The entire game is centered around it, and has been from the beginning. It’s an integral component of the game.

I don’t think that’s the point OriOri was trying to make.

What they were trying to say is: it shouldn’t be the only method to obtain one’s goal in a reasonable amount of time.

Slashmeehup.1495:

OriOri.8724:

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

This is a bizarre argument. Why shouldn’t you have to buy things off the TP? The entire game is centered around it, and has been from the beginning. It’s an integral component of the game.

If that is what you got out of my comment then you missed my argument. Like @Seera said, the TP shouldn’t be the only viable way of obtaining crafting mats that are needed in large quantities without waiting months to get them.

Leather, particularly T5 leather, is needed in absolutely huge quantities, needing over 1,000 raw pieces of T5 leather to make a single ascended medium chest piece. Yet there is absolutely no way to farm it. The only viable way to obtain that much leather in a reasonable time is to buy it on the TP, which is a fundamentally flawed design for this part of the economy. Mystic Coins are in a similar boat, but not as pressing considered they are used primarily for vanity/cosmetic items. However considering how many the average player can get per month (average player being those that login everyday but only have 1 account), the amount of recipes that use mystic coins is way too high (especially considering almost 90 of those recipes for weapons are not even for legendary weapons).

Its no surprise that people hoard these mats. They need a metric kittenton to make anything, and yet we have absolutely no way to farm that amount. The only way to get that much is to buy them off the TP, so why sell if you know that you will end up buying them back, probably at an inflated cost.

Seera.5916:

Slashmeehup.1495:

OriOri.8724:

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

This is a bizarre argument. Why shouldn’t you have to buy things off the TP? The entire game is centered around it, and has been from the beginning. It’s an integral component of the game.

I don’t think that’s the point OriOri was trying to make.

What they were trying to say is: it shouldn’t be the only method to obtain one’s goal in a reasonable amount of time.

Good thing it is not the only way. Every item that is on the TP can be obtained in the game.

OriOri.8724:

Slashmeehup.1495:

OriOri.8724:

Its not that its an anathema, its the fact that we shouldn’t have to buy mats from the TP to craft a legendary. That’s the whole point. For a lot of stuff, even just medium ascended armor, you have to either buy it from the TP or spend months farming leather to get enough, and that is just absurd that we are put in a position like that.

I do agree that the lodestones was a poor example, but leather is not. For how many uses it has, and for how much you need, it should be something that you can farm yourself from nodes, but you can’t. We shouldn’t have to buy it off the TP, yet we do

This is a bizarre argument. Why shouldn’t you have to buy things off the TP? The entire game is centered around it, and has been from the beginning. It’s an integral component of the game.

If that is what you got out of my comment then you missed my argument. Like @Seera said, the TP shouldn’t be the only viable way of obtaining crafting mats that are needed in large quantities without waiting months to get them.

Leather, particularly T5 leather, is needed in absolutely huge quantities, needing over 1,000 raw pieces of T5 leather to make a single ascended medium chest piece. Yet there is absolutely no way to farm it. The only viable way to obtain that much leather in a reasonable time is to buy it on the TP, which is a fundamentally flawed design for this part of the economy. Mystic Coins are in a similar boat, but not as pressing considered they are used primarily for vanity/cosmetic items. However considering how many the average player can get per month (average player being those that login everyday but only have 1 account), the amount of recipes that use mystic coins is way too high (especially considering almost 90 of those recipes for weapons are not even for legendary weapons).

Its no surprise that people hoard these mats. They need a metric kittenton to make anything, and yet we have absolutely no way to farm that amount. The only way to get that much is to buy them off the TP, so why sell if you know that you will end up buying them back, probably at an inflated cost.

You can get a lot of leather from doing the HoT metas and looting chests. You also don’t need to earn all of the leather at once since the T7 refinement recipe is timegated. All that the TP does is provide an alternative way to obtain the items by using supply that other players so not need.

I wouldve said that sticking around in bloodstone fen and ember bay definitely help with gaining leather.

Though personally instead of sticking those salvage materials in one map, buffing them all over the game would be much better for replayability.

Core tyria could really use some love I would say.