Although I see this approach as not helping. I’m not worried as much about this system in low pop maps. I’m worried about it in high pop maps, like cities, or when a guild event happens. If my whole guild can’t get into a map and keeps getting split because you can’t shove out randoms… gg.
I’m not sure how so many people still think this will be a problem. They’ve addressed it multiple times.
In short, your guild (as well as people in your friend list and home server) will all be put in the same instance, and you can still “taxi” people into the instance you’re in.
I don’t think you are understanding the problem of this algorithm happening over time. You can’t “kick” people out of a map who are already there. So if my guild starts zoning into fireheart rise over the course of 3 minutes we will each get prioritized at different times, not all at once. So the first person into the zone will get placed into a map that fits his needs, and that could be a zone with mainly SBI people because the rest of the guild isn’t there yet. The next person might get placed with him because they are in the same guild, but eventually that map fills up and the rest of the guild has to be in another map, that may also have random people in it.
Basically the flaw it doesn’t all happen at once. Each evaluation is separate. So since you can’t be shuffling people out of maps constatnyl you just keep filling them up. You are going to end up with random people because that is the nature of this. And quite often they will replace spots that your guildies could have taken to be with you.
It is complicated and may take some time to think about, but if you write the progression down on paper you will see that the fundamental flaw in this is that you can only add to a map (and the system is also going to be adding to a map constantly), and can’t forcible subtract.
You never could forcibly subtract anyone from a map instance, though. And you will still have access to a /join command, according to something I read somewhere. (If anyone has the source for this, I’d appreciate the assist)
This doesn’t address the issue with the scheduling of world events, though.
Yes but the problem is in the current method the system isn’t going to try to add people to a map copy all the time which in the new it will. So in essence you could never subtract, but now you have made it harder by forcibly adding people which takes up spots that wouldn’t have been taken up in the old one.
For example if I wanted to go to orr with my guild in the current system, there might have been 10 in the map on our server. Great there are ~140 spots left on the map for my guild! In the new system there may be 10 people from GoM, but it has added in 40 from Darkhaven, 30 from Devona’s Rest, 20 from Sorrow’s Furnace, and 30 from ET. Well great, now 10 people from my guild go in there, and the other 30 that want in are in another instance which may also have filled up before we do /join by it’s continuous adding.
I’m not talking about a world boss event. I’m talking about if my guild wants to do a run through orr without any weapons or armor on just for the heck of it (we have definitely done this one in the past)! We can no longer do this together. They can’t fix the fact that this new system will be splitting us up. Half will end up in a map with some other people that were already there, and then when that queues the other half will be somewhere else. If the system wasn’t constantly adding people in (like a homeworld) then this wouldn’t happen except in very rare cases.
There already exist solutions set in place to help with that problem (like being able to join a party member’s map at will). We also don’t know yet how many versions of the same map will exist at any time, nor if the new technology will only create new versions if the old ones are completely full. In fact, it’s heavily implied by anet’s careful wording that maps don’t need to be full, only “confortable”, for new versions of the same map to be created, which implies that it might not be that hard for full guilds to join together.
I think we should first wait and see how effective the system is, before claiming it won’t work.
I can’t believe that you aren’t doing something for WvW. This is really the only endgame content for many of us and right now the matchups are totally imbalanced, the gameplay rewards stacking zergs, bigger numbers and the PPT system is not working well at all specially considering EOTM doesn’t count at all for PPT.
When you introduced traps you promised new ones which we have never got.
I think you have had tons of feedback for WvW telling you precisely what could be improved. Asking for more feedback is almost an insult after the last EOTM feedback discussion thread. You should know what the solution is: new maps, choke points, capture points in SM on all levels of SM, removal of doyak escort, removal of immobilize stacking, alliance system, commander tag as guild tags on map, etc (all in EOTM feedback thread). It seems like you just don’t want to put the effort and do it, and that is excluding GvG and Guild Halls.
The faster you get all zones onto the Mega Server system the better. Also, please add additional stability to World Bosses and resource nodes. I noticed lately the zones are refreshing daily. As if some “Mega Server” functionality is already in place.
A few players, for immersion sake, have asked for more randomness in PvE. BUT, for some of us, PvE is our only source of income. There aren’t timers on Dungeons or Fractals that say “Sorry, come back later.” Nor do the entrances to them teleport all over like Peter the Lost. We should have the same assurance and stability. Please keep this in mind while rolling out the Mega Server.
For example if I wanted to go to orr with my guild in the current system, there might have been 10 in the map on our server. Great there are ~140 spots left on the map for my guild! In the new system there may be 10 people from GoM, but it has added in 40 from Darkhaven, 30 from Devona’s Rest, 20 from Sorrow’s Furnace, and 30 from ET. Well great, now 10 people from my guild go in there, and the other 30 that want in are in another instance which may also have filled up before we do /join by it’s continuous adding.
See the problem?
It will only be a problem for maps that are rapidly filling up due to a scheduled event with massive popularity. You will have no trouble getting your whole guild into Orr for your naked runs.
I’m very glad and excited with your overwhelming responses regarding the MegaServer system.
This is likely the first time i see someone being “excited and glad” that the response to their work was heavily negative. The whole message seems as if it was prepared beforehand, and the person writing it didn’t read even a single post on the feedback thread.
Though i do give anet points for actually delaying the implementation and limiting it to low population zones at first (which i hope do not include any zones with world bosses).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Can we choose and change version of map like we can choose and change districts in Gw1?
Will we be able to choose a version of map which we want or will we simply be inserted into the first map that has free places?
If not, megaserver is jyst one more mega overflow, is it?
Can we choose and change version of map like we can choose and change districts in Gw1?
Will we be able to choose a version of map which we want or will we simply be inserted into the first map that has free places?
If not, megaserver is jyst one more mega overflow, is it?
Pls answer me this.
No. Every map instance will be what we currently call “overflow.”
Prepare to do a lot of ferrying if your guild is moving into a popular map — there’s no way the matching algorithm will get it right 100% of the time, so if you have a big guild, there will always be some people who aren’t sent to the same map as everyone else.
i quite don’t like the loss of control of where i am playing. i don’t appreciate a machine choosing for me where i want to be.
i also fear that organizing larger events might become hell on earth with the megaserver system. why not make a list of opened overflow instances? what would be the problem to list all overflow instances and let the player choose on which he wants to play? would there be any downside to that? aside from resembling the guild wars district system…
i quite don’t like the loss of control of where i am playing. i don’t appreciate a machine choosing for me where i want to be.
i also fear that organizing larger events might become hell on earth with the megaserver system. why not make a list of opened overflow instances? what would be the problem to list all overflow instances and let the player choose on which he wants to play? would there be any downside to that? aside from resembling the guild wars district system…
Remember that Anet is all about hype and spin (that’s why “megaserver” instead of “server merge.” It’d be too embarrassing for Anet for people to see how few instances of each map there are.
I’m adventuring in an Queensdale (part of the megaserver). Along the way I meet another player (from another server), and we decide to group up. When it’s time to move on to Kessex Hills (not part of the megaserver), my new friend is placed in his server’s instance of that zone. When I go through the portal, will I…
A) be placed on his server without guesting
or
B) be placed on my servers instance of that zone ?
Will you still be required to guest on a server in order to join a party member in a zone on that server?
I’m adventuring in an Queensdale (part of the megaserver). Along the way I meet another player (from another server), and we decide to group up. When it’s time to move on to Kessex Hills (not part of the megaserver), my new friend is placed in his server’s instance of that zone. When I go through the portal, will I…
A) be placed on his server without guesting
or
B) be placed on my servers instance of that zone ?
Will you still be required to guest on a server in order to join a party member in a zone on that server?
I would think ‘join current party’ would be a higher order flag than ANYTHING else.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
The thing is – no-one from anet has stated that you will be able to get into a zone with your friends 100%. With the caps on maps and the guild events etc that go on all over the world you will constantly be bumped into different areas and split up. If you’re planning on doing shadow behemoth with your mates – theres how many champ farms running?
Suddenly all those people are in your queue, if their shard is full – their overflow gets dropped down to the next shard.
The algorithm will try to get you into a spot on your home server but queens will fill in seconds.
The chances of getting anything guild related done in any fairly populated area will be a complete pain in the kitten .
Also – as your guild starts filling a zone – suddenly its a popular zone (due to numbers) so now any people zoning in get bumped into your area you’re trying to fill (its not a seperate overflow its now an area with a growing population).
edit: Also – when the new zergy content LS2 shows up, those areas are going to be hit with the same issues. Good luck trying to do a guild event when the ls has 90% of the population zerging the area your guild events in.
i quite don’t like the loss of control of where i am playing. i don’t appreciate a machine choosing for me where i want to be.
i also fear that organizing larger events might become hell on earth with the megaserver system. why not make a list of opened overflow instances? what would be the problem to list all overflow instances and let the player choose on which he wants to play? would there be any downside to that? aside from resembling the guild wars district system…
It wouldn’t be intuitive at all. If you’re a new player, you have no idea what “overflow instances” and all that junk are. The majority of people heading into a map do not care which map instance they get put into.
You already don’t have control, because you can’t control if the map is filled and you get sent into an overflow. At least with this system, you’ll be put with folks on your own server.
I wonder how the MegaServer will respond to 125-150 players from one guild counting down in voice then WPing into a zone? If the algorithm is designed to look for this it could also be designed to spawn a new map rather than using those guild members to fill up existing maps. Any players that lose their way could use the join function.
The current overflow spawn system is imperfect, the MegaServer is likely to be imperfect as well but still as game-able. My gut tells me we will discover a way for guilds to get a zone to themselves at the same extent we are able to now. Since we will be able to spawn mega super bosses at will, we also have more time to get the zone to our guildselves. Since bosses are now on a universal timer, there are now windows of time that zones will be scarcely populated, times they will be most susceptible to guild take over.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
I see the benefits to the idea but I’m worried about it killing Orr temple farming and driving the costs of mats/precursors up even higher. It’s also rather inconvenient that I can’t simply guest to catch an event that’s up now.
As I said before, there is nothing horrendously wrong with the current way things are. This MegaServer is completely unnecessary. Listen to your players, Anet. The negatives are outweighing the positives. A lot of people are mentioning leaving your game if this is implemented. Sure, a lot of people talk the walk but not everyone walks the talk. Aren’t your players’ comments and concerns important to you?
If you want some constructive criticism or perhaps a different “solution” to something, let me throw one forth. Do not change any server or its own zones (as in Caledon Forest, Fields of Ruin, etc). Instead, create a completely optional MegaServer for those that want to be in zones filled with hundreds of other players. Allow players to have the choice to either stay in their own server zone or go to the MegaServer zone. Heck, since people have been complaining about overflows being “sucky” in certain events, get rid of overflows altogether as well. Instead, place them into the MegaServer until there is room to go back to their home server, if the player so wishes. People that ultimately are opposed to this MegaServer idea simply do not ever have to go there if they do not want to. They can stay put in their home server that people chose to be in at the start of playing or payed a generous sum of gold (or real life money) to transfer to a specific server. For those that are in support of the MegaServer, those players can choose to go to that MegaServer with the click of a button implemented in your map screen (or some other convenient place).
I know this isn’t the -best- option by any means but I feel like this is a better step forward than forcing everyone to be a part of this MegaServer that seemingly more people are opposed to.
I feel this system is going to be better than the old system but may need some tweaks. I think a lot of people don’t like the idea that you don’t know which map you are actually on. One solution would be to create a numbered “district” that identifies every map that is created. You can see which district your friends and guild members are in and then choose to jump to that district or queue up for it.
Of course, the sorting algorithms may work so well that guild or parties are never split up and everyone is happy. Who knows until we see how the system works in the real world.
I’m very glad and excited with your overwhelming responses regarding the MegaServer system.
This is likely the first time i see someone being “excited and glad” that the response to their work was heavily negative. The whole message seems as if it was prepared beforehand, and the person writing it didn’t read even a single post on the feedback thread.
Haha, it’s the same feeling I get when I write to a senator. “This NSA thing has me a little worried, Senator.” “Thank you for writing! Yes, the NSA is a wonderful agency.”
Gwen Dlynn; human engineer (1st class)
Sir Reginald Doom; Charr necromancer (wip)
Aurora Skykin; Norn guardian (wip)
Only being able to port into the nearest entrance to a zone is okay and all, but discovering that you can port even closer (porting a second time) will incur an additional expense to the player.
I understand that waypoint costs are minor, but that silver adds up over time.
Will the cost of waypointing be readdressed?
Phunktastic – Mesmer of The Legendary High Council [TlhC] North America, Sorrow’s Furnace
I know this is just my opinion and all, but I really don’t see what the big deal is about the contested waypoints. So in some situations, I might have to walk less than a minute to get somewhere I otherwise could have waypointed closer to. That’s fine. On the way I’ll probably run across a tree or mining node that I wouldn’t have otherwise, and that instantly pays for whatever I would have to spend to take the second waypoint anyway, and then some.
The only time I ever care that I’m waypointing as close as possible to something is when I’m dead, but in that case, I’m in the zone already, so this wouldn’t be an issue.
Loss of dungeon state is unfortunate though. Hopefully there will be some sort of remedy for that.
I guess waiting 4-8 minutes for taxi flights in WoW made me more patient with these things.
Ara Daybreak [GT] – Charr Elementalist – Henge of Denravi
Here’s some clarification, as I understand that this whole thing is quite complicated to grasp.
The roll-out plan ultimately include all maps in the open world, including the cities. The speed at which we’ll roll out the system will depends on how the system performs versus our expectations, but the goal is to ultimately cover the whole open world.
The roll-out is done on a per-map basis. Once a map uses the MegaServer system, it uses it for all Worlds (that is the point of the MegaServer system). The “map population” I am referring to is the average population on the map across all Worlds.
Thanks for your comments!
— Samuel
With do respect, what’s the point of this ‘update’? I don’t think anyone’s complaints, concerns or issues with the megaserver system has to do with the speed by at which it’s being rolled out. Whether you do it fast or slow, it’s not going to resolve issues like those people have brought up about schedules or problems with communities.
I mean, it’s not even approaching addressing those issues. At all.
Here’s some clarification, as I understand that this whole thing is quite complicated to grasp.
The roll-out plan ultimately include all maps in the open world, including the cities. The speed at which we’ll roll out the system will depends on how the system performs versus our expectations, but the goal is to ultimately cover the whole open world.
The roll-out is done on a per-map basis. Once a map uses the MegaServer system, it uses it for all Worlds (that is the point of the MegaServer system). The “map population” I am referring to is the average population on the map across all Worlds.
Thanks for your comments!
— Samuel
With do respect, what’s the point of this ‘update’? I don’t think anyone’s complaints, concerns or issues with the megaserver system has to do with the speed by at which it’s being rolled out. Whether you do it fast or slow, it’s not going to resolve issues like those people have brought up about schedules or problems with communities.
I mean, it’s not even approaching addressing those issues. At all.
It’s the ‘make you like it plan’
Do it slowly in order to make the people who don’t want it enough to talk about it ‘comfortable’ with it in order to stop them from complaining.
3 years later assimilate the world.
The Australian Government tried to do this with Daylight Saving. They failed.
i quite don’t like the loss of control of where i am playing. i don’t appreciate a machine choosing for me where i want to be.
i also fear that organizing larger events might become hell on earth with the megaserver system. why not make a list of opened overflow instances? what would be the problem to list all overflow instances and let the player choose on which he wants to play? would there be any downside to that? aside from resembling the guild wars district system…
It wouldn’t be intuitive at all. If you’re a new player, you have no idea what “overflow instances” and all that junk are. The majority of people heading into a map do not care which map instance they get put into.
You already don’t have control, because you can’t control if the map is filled and you get sent into an overflow. At least with this system, you’ll be put with folks on your own server.
it doesn’t need to be intuitive. i would expect using at least one or two neurons actively from time to time would do no harm. if your brain can evaluate a whole combat situation it also should be able to comprehend a single digit list and a button.
Really looking forward to this new system, I’m a bit of an altaholic and most of my alts are in the mid-level zones right now, it’ll be nice to see other players around again
Will we get told which zones it’s been activated on, when it’s released? It’s pretty easy to know which zones are the low level ones, but low population is a little bit more difficult to tell (I’m guessing maps like Brisban Wildlands, Timberline Falls, Fields of Ruin?) It’d be nice to be told which maps have been switched, so we can go and see how it’s affecting those maps, when the system is released
my complaints about this mess are real simple, i will no longer be able to schedule activities my guild may want to do unless it falls into the times that anet feels we should do it, those boss unlocks are just the mega bosses, not the champs or even temples, they fail to remember that our real lives dictate most of ours playing times since we work/married/have kids etc.
they need to consolidate servers, a lot of us know this since we actually paid to go to more populated servers and this is anets answer to doing it without looking like they’ve been a tad over generous with how many people have stopped playing, the problem though is nothing in their system is built to do it this way, thats why they will loose the timers and even way points being able to be reported open or not, so they are gonna have to experiment as they go with it.
they should just close the bottom 3 to 6 servers and merge the populations upward but that kittenes people off, this plan kittenes people off also so they are in a no win situation with any of their choices, they are taking the path they hope kittenes the least amount of people off even if it means the play as you want turns into play as you want on our schedule not yours.
and to those who think you can pick whatever servers map/overflow setup, they haven’t said we get a choice at all, they did say it was automatically done by algorithms on the server based off of homeworld/guild and fl but not any kind of drop down menu or button
my complaints about this mess are real simple, i will no longer be able to schedule activities my guild may want to do unless it falls into the times that anet feels we should do it, those boss unlocks are just the mega bosses, not the champs or even temples, they fail to remember that our real lives dictate most of ours playing times since we work/married/have kids etc.
I think I see a misunderstanding here. Champ events and the temples of Orr will not be on a schedule.
While I find it interesting you’re able to do this at all, I hope you look at more metrics than the ones you want to look at. How this system affects the whole game is more important than just population of a given map.
Wow, what the heck is up with the vitriol in this thread? You all haven’t even tried it and you’re already announcing it will ruin the game, or that “Anet isn’t listening to the players!!!1” when maybe 0.1% of the people are on here complaining while the rest are looking forward to it silently. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean ArenaNet has to change what they’re doing. What a load of entitlement.
Dreading this. Why Anet seem to believe that all of their client base seeks a zergfest is beyond me.
Maybe because they do? Even when the content obviously doesn’t call for zergs (see: scarlet’s generals), people will find a way to shoehorn them in. 99% of the player base actively seeks zerg content.
my complaints about this mess are real simple, i will no longer be able to schedule activities my guild may want to do unless it falls into the times that anet feels we should do it, those boss unlocks are just the mega bosses, not the champs or even temples, they fail to remember that our real lives dictate most of ours playing times since we work/married/have kids etc.
That’s true right now, and it would be doubly true if they were to take your advice and “consolidate servers” and slash the available boss timers by 20%. If you want to fight bosses on your own time, join a guild that will schedule frequent pops. I have no idea what you’re talking about wrt champs, as they’re on a frequent spawn schedule as it is. Temples are actually more likely to be in progress/open since more people will be in the zone; you’ll no longer need to guest around looking for an open temple.
“Any event that does not appear on this list will continue to operate as before, with timings that are based on the state and conditions of the map they occur in. Notably, the Temples of Orr will not be synchronized at this time since they heavily influence the content ecosystem that they exist in.”
If I am reading this bit correctly, this means that all events not listed will work pretty much similar to, if not exactly like, they do now, and the Temples of Orr will (for now) act like they currently do, except it effects all statues that are closer to that specific temple in the map it is in, not the statues linked to that specific temple across the maps.
Can’t say I see Temples or regular Champs on that list. I guess they just spawn as they always have. So, no timers and no need to encounter them on “ArenaNet’s time schedule”.
Any event that does not appear on this list will continue to operate as before, with timings that are based on the state and conditions of the map they occur in. Notably, the Temples of Orr will not be synchronized at this time since they heavily influence the content ecosystem that they exist in.
With World Bosses, yes, you either must follow the schedule, start them yourself, or find another Guild that will start them….probably something like TTS (TSS?) will evolve doing them hourly, or something.
It might not be as bad as everyone envisions. It would be fair to find out how it works before judging, I would think. But, that’s just me. =)
Samuel, this mega server system sounds a little like the district system in GW1, is it based on that? Just wondering. Also why not simply add more servers? This really could turn out to be a case of “Don’t raise the bridge, lower the river..”.
Samuel, this mega server system sounds a little like the district system in GW1, is it based on that? Just wondering. Also why not simply add more servers? This really could turn out to be a case of “Don’t raise the bridge, lower the river..”.
how does adding more servers help any issue? low pop areas are low pop areas, more servers make low pop areas less populated, and this will help that in making low pop areas atleast medium pop with people from every server, if anything to achieve this effect they’d need to remove some servers and merge those
If my whole guild can’t get into a map and keeps getting split because you can’t shove out randoms… gg.
Like how it already happens in the current system?
It’ll be different, now the map fills and an overflow is generated, so a large guild can start to taxi into it and get a lot of their people into it removing them from the base map. Under the new system it seems that people will be split up amongst the existing maps so your guild members will be scattered without the ability to gather everyone in one map. Please note this is often dismissed by people as elitism or a desire to “kick out the noobs” because you’re laying claim to a map and for some people it is but it often comes simply from a desire to play together with your guild.
EDIT: At least as the path of some slight compromise can you leave cities alone so that we still have one place where I server community isn’t destroyed?
I’ve been playing GW2 since beta, and so far, this concept of “Server community” has been nothing but a myth. What server community? Where is it? I’ve never seen such a thing in almost two years of playing this game, and the only people I occasionally meet often are guild members and friends… which is not always easy to do because of the existence of servers in the first place.
And the whole RP issue can be fixed by Anet dedicated an server to RP for each region. Which I hope they do.
I’ve seen quite a strong sense of community amongst some of the WvWers on my server. There’s a handful that I recognise again and again but that should stay the same.
That’s it though, there is no PvE server community that I’ve seen either. For example, the LS results in overflows all the time so you don’t even know where the people are from, dungeons are cross realm already so same thing there. When leveling you see random leveling characters so no identity there either.
I’m very glad and excited with your overwhelming responses regarding the MegaServer system.
In case you didn’t notice, 90% of the responses you’re so EXCITED about claimed that your poor solutions suck.
I see why the word “suck” may have positive connotations for you but that’s not the case.
I’m tired of the fact that you do not care about what we want, just about your PR.
Stay EXCITED.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that’s noticed this. While I actually have some hopes for the system, Loretan’s comment made me laugh with how out of touch with reality it sounds.
That’s it though, there is no PvE server community that I’ve seen either. For example, the LS results in overflows all the time so you don’t even know where the people are from, dungeons are cross realm already so same thing there. When leveling you see random leveling characters so no identity there either.
PvE server community can be a small, quiet thing but it’s still important to some of us. For example, on TC we have the standard Queensdale champ train. Boar, Troll, Bandit, Oak, Spider, Boar. Like clockwork.
There’s also a certain charr (not sure I should name him, just look for the charr holding up a sign) that’s well known for showing up and derailing the train by killing champs out of order. Some people curse him, others (myself included) love it when he shows up. It forces people to think and adapt on the fly. I have high hopes for the megaserver system (once it’s adjusted), but I’ll be sad if I never see him at work again.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
