Guild Wars 2

I have a guildie, who happens to be also a decent and respected EB commander, who starts every chat utterance with a capital letter and ends his sentences with full stops (arrogant side of me says – when talking about sentence structure, there are no ‘periods’). Would be plain silly to try and see anything wrong about it, tbh, although it does look a bit odd at the beginning, simply because it stands out.

You’re using proper punctuation on the internet? You fiend, don’t you know that is STRICTLY forbidden!

On all seriousness, why would people really get kitten over the punctuation, they’re usually too busy harping on grammar to care.

Acidicore.3264:

You’re using proper punctuation on the internet? You fiend, don’t you know that is STRICTLY forbidden!

On all seriousness, why would people really get kitten over the punctuation, they’re usually too busy harping on grammar to care.

I’ve been confounded by this myself as I’ve never run into ’!@# using proper punctuation….ever. Then again its rare that I do use it properly as maths and science were my strong points and the rest took the backseat. I also may be dyslexic but I never bothered to get tested for it.

In my opinion, you should always use correct grammar. Perfect practice makes perfect. The more you use it, the better you’ll get at it. Like others in this thread, I can’t help but think someone who writes poorly is either uneducated or very young (under 13).

Torpian.9142:

In my opinion, you should always use correct grammar. Perfect practice makes perfect. The more you use it, the better you’ll get at it. Like others in this thread, I can’t help but think someone who writes poorly is either uneducated or very young (under 13).

Or maybe they know multiple languages that don’t include English ?

I use correct grammar and punctuation when I can. But, like many, I often don’t have time during a pitched battle to write in complete sentences. That doesn’t mean I misspell things, but I’ll skip on pleasantries, punctuation, adjectives and adverbs to save a fraction of a second if I can.

Acidicore.3264:

You’re using proper punctuation on the internet? You fiend, don’t you know that is STRICTLY forbidden!

On all seriousness, why would people really get kitten over the punctuation, they’re usually too busy harping on grammar to care.

This ^

A thread on punctuation in chat? Seriously?

So…using five hundred different shortcuts for real life terms or words is ok, but proper periods are questioned? How weird.

Aequitas.6402:

I kind of got into the habit of using punctuation when I’m serious, and just ending sentences without it when I’m joking or at least tongue-in-cheek.

Exactly the same with me. Although a couple of sentences into the conversation I usually realize if it’s just how the person types or if they’re being serious/displaying some emotion with it.

Color me arrogant, then. It’s much quicker for me to type correctly, as a writer and a journalist, than to purposely leave out periods or capital letters because it comes across as “arrogant.”

Elaborating, I have over 100 WPM, but I will still backtrack to correct every single mistake if I notice it. If I realize I didn’t capitalize the first word of a sentence, I’m compelled to go all the way back to amend it. I guess a better example would be this: Sometimes I type “lyk dis” in a satirical manner. It takes me 5 times as long to type “lyk dis” than it does to type “like this.” My mind isn’t used to purposely and knowingly typing like that, and the same applies for periods at the end of sentences. Even omitting a period would slow down my WPM by like 30 because I have to actively remind myself that I don’t -want- to put the period there this time.

So in short, I have NO idea why it comes off as arrogant to some people. It honestly seems more arrogant that someone would be offended by something as small as a period at the end of sentences, or capital letters. Some people have honestly just gotten into the habit of typing that way, and it comes as natural and quick to them.

My “quirks” are so bad that I’ll even put a period after one word responses, and I honestly can’t stop it. Even though one word doesn’t make a sentence and thus wouldn’t benefit from a period’s intended function. But for me, omitting that period is pretty unsettling while I’m typing, and it’s just reflex that I add it.

Sokina.8041:

quote

Exactly how I feel about it.=P

We live in a world that is heavily dominated by text-based communication. More so than ever before. We’re writing, and reading, more text on a daily basis than anyone could have ever imagined even twenty years ago. We’re also trained from birth to hear beyond the words that are said in order to pick up on tonality and deeper levels of meaning.

Someone mentioned this once before, but I’ll reiterate: The phrase “I never said she stole my money,” can be read in seven different ways with radically different meaning depending on where you put the stress. “I never said she stole my money” reads completely differently from “I never said she stole my money.” We’re used to that in verbal speech, but in the written form the only way you would ever know for sure what I actually meant if I used that phrase would be if I used italics or some other indication of stress, as I did.

Using stress in a sentence to make meaning known is nothing new, we’re all masters of conveying and understanding that kind of meaning when spoken aloud. The problem is there’s no set of rules for how we nuance our written words. Instead, we rely on our experience to figure out what to make of another person’s writing. We know from literature that when a writer wants a character to stress a particular word, he can italicize or bold that word. But it’s also a time honored tradition to deliberately leave things unstressed so that the reader can interpret it how they will.

We know from email and SMS culture that when someone is being casual, they’ll typically leave out punctuation or characters for brevity or simply because of familiarity. We also know that in formal settings, such as emails to someone you aren’t familiar with, proper punctuation is more socially acceptable.

The ramifications of this should be obvious. The method of conveying the tone of your communication is also in how you punctuate and format your text. Because proper punctuation is typically reserved for more formal occasions, using it in “common speech” if you will with people you are on more informal or familiar terms (such as your dungeon party) can be seen as stand-offish or even – yes – arrogant. Leaving your periods off conveys that you acknowledge the casualness of the situation.

An example of this in spoken action would be to use an honorific such as sir or ma’am with your best friend, and not ironically. It’s weird, and it only serves to put distance between you, not encourage familiarity. Or even more nuanced; Using “madam” instead of the contraction “ma’am” when ma’am would ordinarily suffice.

An example from my own experience: I have a friend that I have known for about six years now. I’ve spent far more time talking to this friend with text than I have verbally. We never use periods when we talk to each other casually, except for one case: When that person is miffed about something. As soon as they are irritated, annoyed, angry, or otherwise out of balance the periods come out. The tonal change is blatantly obvious, and it’s a small wonder that so much communication can happen with so tiny a mark. When they’re mad, and those periods come out, everyone knows what’s up.

They aren’t the only one – I notice that a lot about people online. As soon as the periods are broken out, kitten’s about to get real.

TL;DR: There’s a perfectly good reason to view it as “arrogant,” but it has less to do with you being somehow pedantic and overwrought and more to do with using inappropriate tone given the social dynamic you’re currently inhabiting and it sounds weird or makes everyone else uncomfortable.

Sokina.8041:

My “quirks” are so bad that I’ll even put a period after one word responses, and I honestly can’t stop it. Even though one word doesn’t make a sentence and thus wouldn’t benefit from a period’s intended function. But for me, omitting that period is pretty unsettling while I’m typing, and it’s just reflex that I add it.

There is absolutely a difference in tone that most people will perceive between the one-word “No” and the one-word “No.” The second, with a period, undeniably has a more authoritative and final ring to it than the former. “No” would be something you would say aloud after the first time a child asked you to buy them a toy, “No.” would be something you would say the third time, after you’d had enough of it.

+1 foofad, very well said.

I use punctuation if I have more than one sentence in chat. Whether it is formal or informal, it simply makes it easier to follow.

I use proper grammar, punctuation, spelling and capitalization. I cannot stand it when people don’t use periods. It makes them look like morons and it drives me insane.

I play with a keypad and in order to type in chat I must switch to my keyboard. Punctuation be kittened, most times I’m lucky if my teammates can understand what I just typed let alone worry about proper sentences. If I’m not in combat or doing something that requires me to use my keypad I will usually try to use caps and periods, but as this is a game and I’m not being graded on it I don’t much care so long as I get my point across.

foofad.5162:

quote

Thanks for the post. That was actually interesting to read, and something to think about.

I use capital letters and periods and everything because I’m afraid people won’t understand otherwise, English is not my real language. I really hope people don’t think I try to be arrogant or mean or anything!

I use lots of faces though, maybe too many? Guess that can be irritating too, but I’m scared of giving people the wrong impression when I say something.

i think this really sums up the whole reason to at least use punctuation: http://imgur.com/gallery/rmQmH

i mean, i don’t capitalize, but some separation of ideas makes all the difference in the world man. now, if it’s just one line, a period isn’t entirely necessary, but still good for practice.

I nearly never capitalize because I just don’t know when to. I usually type one sentence per line, and then leave out the point.
in really hectic situations
I resort to writing
a few words,
hit enter, fight/run/whatever,
type a bit more, hit enter etc,
then I will use a period to show
when the sentence is finished.
but normally I refrain from such split-up sentences, as it sound’s like I have an asthma attack.

for those who think ellipses shouldn’t be used:
in CoF1 (yeah, probably not the best place to be looking for grammar) I tell one warri he shouldn’t use gs#5 after the bridge and just run normally. he doesn’t get it, so I have to explain how the flametower aoes won’t hit the feedback bubble if someone rushes through and thus hit the ground where all the others want to walk instead of being reflected to the side leaving a clear path for everyone. he doesn’t get it and next run same thing happens again. I say he should let it be. again, he asks why. I explain it again, to which he responds: I don’t get it, speak german. so I explain it again, in german (which is better than my english anyway). he didn’t get it and thankfully left afterwards (and joined my blocklist). and in my opinion, THAT was a perfect situation to use … excessively. and I did. if it’s arrogant, so be it, then I’m proud to be arrogant instead of ignorant and purposefully obtuse. I think he even deserved a message consisting only of …, though I didn’t go quite so far.

Are we talking about “.” or “…”

‘cause a simple “.” is fine by me, as long as I’m not expected to type periods while running from a keep that’s under siege. “UMFG, INC” “run pugs run!” is as close to proper sentences as you’ll get from me.

…and as a chronic user of “…” I talk when I type, and I’m just denoting a verbal pause, or break, or a continuation of thought.

…or whatever; i like to do it.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Wooboost.8527:

Same I don’t mind you’re punctuation if you don’t mind my lazy shortened words and botched sentences. ur u b4 folo hlp gunna dnt ooc rlly wat k gz srry my b…

your*

Sorry to be THAT person in this thread!

I do the same as crazylegsmurphy, type “properly” when I have the time, and shorten when in battle. When pressed for time, I also make typos like everybody else.

I wouldn’t expect anyone to proof-read every line of text they type into chat before sending. Never. However… there is a difference between typo, shortening, and genuine misspelling. If you talk about your “theif”, I find it difficult to take you seriously. I regard this as a character flaw in myself rather than in you, but somehow I can’t seem to change this about myself.

Pun intended?

Punctuation is fine. The only “punctuation” I find annoying is when somebody ends all of their sentences with “lol” or a smiley.

Another annoying thing for me
is when
people break up their sentences
like this

I’d never call somebody out on it though. I’m amazed you’d get called out for using periods at the end of your sentences.

Sometimes periods are considered ‘serious’ conversation or give off a bit of an attitude. I can see why it can be misconstrued in that sort of way in MMOs or any other type of online interaction.

It’s like getting a text from your gf and she says “I’m not mad.”

Then you know she’ mad.

Vol.5241:

Sometimes periods are considered ‘serious’ conversation or give off a bit of an attitude. I can see why it can be misconstrued in that sort of way in MMOs or any other type of online interaction.

It’s like getting a text from your gf and she says “I’m not mad.”

Then you know she’ mad.

Or she really is not mad and you are worrying without reason.

I fail to see how proper gramma and use of periods can be considered serious, in any form or way.
I do understand that you can’t always be proper. Abbrevations, sentence shortening, typos and misspellings are what happens in an online enviroment. Some might dyslexic, some (like me) do not have English as their native language, and learning new languages can be difficult for some. We all type a bit quickly when in combat. It makes sense.
Txt speech just should never happen though. That is a lingual abomination.

For me, being a programmer, keeping it short is like second nature to me. I tend to leave out caps and periods, and keep messages single line (as opposed to sending people a book to read).

People using punctuation being as arrogant… Hmm. No.

I do have a few buddies here and there that end every sentence with a period, even if they just say ‘Lol.’. In all honesty, to me those people come across as people lacking sense of humor. Probably cause the period at the end makes it look strict.

For the most part i tend to use standard punctuation. There is of course a few exceptions based on what i feel like at the time. Oh and i dont like capitalising the word ‘i’ in the middle of a sentence. I think it’s ridiculous.

What i do hate is the people who call others out on incorrect or non-standard use of grammar, spelling, diction etc even though they understand the meaning being conveyed. These people are arrogant and find pleasure in belittling others and the irony is that they too make written mistakes.

Depends on the sentence… For instance, I see a difference between :

“You’re bad”
and
“You’re bad.”

The latter is like “You’re bad, period, accept it and keep quiet”. The first one is smoother.

For the rest, like the one that we are all using in this topic for instance, it’s just a grammar and syntax matter.

I fink proper punction and spellink is a siggn of arrogance like wtf I mean lolz xD

I honestly don’t care one way or the other so long as the person makes sense and isn’t being a jerk. You have a wide variety of folks in this game with various typing speeds and grasp on English grammar (whether due to age, education, or a non-native English speaker). So shorthand is bound to happen in a game like this. To judge for using a period (or lack thereof) says more of person judging than the person making the grammatical error.

I have a hard time not using them. It is a habit.

I don’t understand why it would be arrogant. It is punctuation of a sentence after all. Didn’t people learn this in school?

I only use periods at the end of chat when I mean business so if I see someone else using a period, I think “uh oh!” unless they always use periods. It’s not really arrogant, some people do it, and some don’t. No biggie!

I write a lot in my day job but I’ll admit that my GW2 chat grammar is poor. If we’re not on mumble, I will sometimes skip words in chat so I can get it over with faster. Sometimes it will seem as though English is not my first language, hehe. I’ve noticed it started to wear off just a bit on some of my guildmates. Sorry, guys!

Kichwas.7152:

I look down on the people who -don’t- make some attempt at decent grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Not perfect, but decently readable.

I have to admit I am similar. I don’t so much look down on them as much as I assume they’re either not intelligent or are somehow developmentally challenged. I know that probably sounds terrible, but text is often a first impression and when someone can’t even put forth the effort to form complete words let alone sentences (internet shorthand is a pet peeve of mine) it’s not a particularly good first impression.

Sokina.8041:

Color me arrogant, then. It’s much quicker for me to type correctly, as a writer and a journalist, than to purposely leave out periods or capital letters because it comes across as “arrogant.”

Elaborating, I have over 100 WPM, but I will still backtrack to correct every single mistake if I notice it. If I realize I didn’t capitalize the first word of a sentence, I’m compelled to go all the way back to amend it.

This fits me as well.

@Foofad – I agree with most of what you typed. However, I cannot agree with the presence of a period denoting an arrogance or finality in the tone of a message. The essence of casual typing, at least to me, is based on laziness and brevity. To use words such as “thru” and “u” are simply a result of typing quickly and only getting the message across. Also, many of these came about from the days of phone texting using the number keys to type.

I’m a fast typer and do a lot of it in a professional setting. As such, it’s 2nd nature to type with proper grammar and not use chat shortcuts. If I type through rather than thru it does not mean I’m pretentious or arrogant, simply that I don’t need to shorten my words to type quickly.

Also, I’ve never heard of periods being a factor when potraying tone in type. For that, I always thought one used exclamation marks or capitlization. A period is just what goes at the end of every sentence. I’m not trying to denote a moment of finality, simply that it’s my habit to end sentences with “period, space, space.”

It’s not arrogant, it’s normal. The people who fail (or refuse) to use punctuation and intelligible grammar are being arrogant if they think they have the right to expect other people to adopt these backwards rules.

From now on, the game is called “Giuld Wars 2,” and anyone who doesn’t adopt incorrect spelling is arrogant.

There is nothing wrong with using periods in chat.

What drives me nuts is when people don’t capitalize or use “shortforms” for words like you (typed as “u” – gosh, really, you saved about a second by not typing the y and o)… goodness gracious that drives me bonkers.

I think the comment is indicative of culture though. I got used to having a period put in automatically at the end of a one sentence emote from MUDs that I played on. That, in turn, slowly led me to stop putting periods at the end of my first sentence in a chat.

Funnily enough, when I type two sentences then both have periods. Every time.

As it is now, sometimes my first sentence will have a period and sometimes it won’t.

But, does a period at the end impart a sense of arrogance? Perhaps to those who don’t do it and feel threatened by someone who uses “proper grammar” online.

Esturk.2183:

Some people have jobs that require typing with proper grammar and it’s probably second nature to type a period at the end of each sentence.

This is how I’ve always typed too. I type faster just typing properly with proper punctuation most of the time.

I don’t really care whether people do or don’t, as long as I can read what they’re saying. The idea of it actually being ARROGANT to use proper punctuation is pretty funny though.

whiran.1473:

There is nothing wrong with using periods in chat.

[snip]

But, does a period at the end impart a sense of arrogance? Perhaps to those who don’t do it and feel threatened by someone who uses “proper grammar” online.

^ this

I will say that I resist the urge to play Grammar Police with people in chat. Even though poor grammar bothers me, that is what comes across as arrogant. Unfortunately, rather than being seen as helpful/informative, most people react poorly to it, so it’s just not worth the abuse I receive in return.

On the other hand, I have several friends who want to improve their grammar, and have asked me to correct them. It’s nice to see that there are people out there who care about the nit-picky stuff. :P

Looking down on someone for not showing perfect grammar in a MMO chat window is extremely arrogant in my opinion. Who cares if people aren’t perfect in chat? I’d rather make a couple of typos, skip “the” and not die rather than make sure to type perfectly in the middle of a dungeon, holding back progress.

Just a thought…but is it possible that those who use proper grammar in chat just come from a background that demands a stronger understanding of the English language; this in turn means a more pronounced vocabulary, stronger word usage, and more accurate grammar – and thus come off as arrogant to people who don’t have such polished English skills?

Honestly, that whole sentence sounded a bit arrogant. Meh. As long as people don’t type in leet, or use old school texting shorthand when they have a full keyboard (I mean, WHY? It’s only 2 more letters to type ‘you’ instead of just ‘u’ !!)…..I couldn’t care less on their choice of punctuation ingame.

rozcinana.7249:

Looking down on someone for not showing perfect grammar in a MMO chat window is extremely arrogant in my opinion. Who cares if people aren’t perfect in chat? I’d rather make a couple of typos, skip “the” and not die rather than make sure to type perfectly in the middle of a dungeon, holding back progress.

That’s not really the point of this thread. Actually, it’s the opposite; should people who use periods at the ends of their chat sentences be seen as arrogant? Is proper grammar and punctuation a sign that someone is being arrogant? I think that notion is ridiculous.

If….. you…… use…… periods…… like…… this…… all…… the…… time…… it…… gets…… really…… annoying. Especially since 3 periods are the appropriate amount, not 5/10/20.

That said, anyone who says that using proper punctuation makes someone look “arrogant”, “stupid” or anything else is a grade A idiot in my book. A lack of proper punctuation can make a sentence close to unreadable. It’s already hard enough to read some of the stuff that comes up on the screen, especially w/ u rite lik dis. Lets not compound the issue further.

My favorite people are the ones that follow any grammatical based statement with a declaration that they have no need to communicate like an intelligent human through text based mediums. Makes me chuckle every time.

I don’t see how typing like that is arrogant. I actually get extremely annoyed, and most of the time, drop anyone’s credibility, if they start typing like they are four years old. It’s not hard to type correctly, and I fail to see why typing correctly is arrogant.

In all honesty, I wish that Guild Wars 2 wouldn’t “Auto-Capitalize” names when you make a character. That would save me the trouble of trying to communicate with people who can’t talk correctly.

I don’t see anything wrong with using proper grammar, whether in chat or elsewhere. As long as the point is being communicated, does it really matter if there is a period or not? At that point it comes down to personal preference. The only time chat annoys me is when there are so many misspellings or abbreviations that it is difficult to understand.

Seras.5702:

That’s not really the point of this thread. Actually, it’s the opposite; should people who use periods at the ends of their chat sentences be seen as arrogant? Is proper grammar and punctuation a sign that someone is being arrogant? I think that notion is ridiculous.

I agree with you. I was responding to other comments above talking about judging people based on their poor grammar. I wasn’t the first to bring it up.

Using periods to end sentences is arrogant?

BWAHAHAHAHA. That’s hilarious. Proper punctuation is now considered arrogant, beautiful. I suppose next using actual words will be considered arrogant, we should just smash our heads against the keyboard. I needed a good laugh, thanks TC.

Color me audacious.

I’m not going to abandon 49 years of proper punctuation because it might appear arrogant.

In return, I will try to refrain from thinking that those players who cannot use ran/run, their/they’re/there and your/you’re correctly are somehow lacking in adequate education.

I second goldenwing’s opinion above.

I’m also in the category of folks who prefer to just continue to use the bare minimums of beginning a sentence with a capital letter and ending with punctuation; occasionally to make a side remark I won’t bother, but I just feel I’ll say “healthier” using proper form. I don’t mind others not; but to imply that those who are doing it correctly are doing something wrong strikes me as, shall we say, getting things backwards. (pleasant smile)

I learned how to type in high school on a manual typewriter, which was actually not that long ago. Typos drive me crazy if I’m out of the white corrective ribbon. White-out is really messy. Periods are awesome because they make that satisfying CHUNK at the end of a thought.

Are we seriously expected to apologize for using proper grammar and typing in complete, coherent English sentences?!?

The earlier mention here of how our society as a whole is increasingly resembling the movie (and actually becoming an) Idiocracy was spot on!