Guild Wars 2

Utility Goggles – Reveal stealthed players + Prevents them from going back into
stealth for 3 secs.

*this would be added to the ability engineers already have

Give engineers something to counter stealth (Stealth disruptor traps don’t count.)

To anyone who flat out disagrees with this or its basic concept without giving good reason is more then likely someone who has invested a lot of time into their thief/mesmer. They don’t want their unfair advantage taken away and are just trying to prevent balance in WvW/PvP.

Thx,

Diabetus

They have devices which can re-enact ancient rituals and giant laser beams that shoot ancient dragons, but omg detecting stealthed enemies is completely baffling.

Ehm- could all of us get those please? or even better just remove the stealth part from wvw/pvp? would be nice.

I main an engi and don’t really use my thief in WvW or PvP yet and I think this could just replace the majority of thieves that we see there with engis. Don’t get me wrong I like seeing fellow engis around but replacing the majority of one class for another is not really the way to go. The “thieves are too OP” posts and whines would soon be replaced with “engies are obviously too OP because look how many there are now” threads.

Oh yeah btw my flamethrower does pretty well at pushing thieves out of their little hidy houses when they drop that (skill 3 is beast!). Try it sometime.

I despise perma-stealth as much as the next person but an engineer-centric skill doesn’t solve anything. No professions can counter stealth so dishing out a skill add-on to engis does nothing for anyone else.

Stealth is an interesting and fun mechanic, but as it stands at the minute it is slightly ridiculous. Thieves are largely invincible, if they are losing a fight they just perma-stealth away. Thats not productive for healthy gameplay. There need to be more stringent stealth cut-backs so that perma stealth cannot be used – im thinking bigger cooldowns, certainly in WvW. Ideally, stealth is the kind of skill that is used in certain niche situations and cooldowns wouldn’t really affect that / it would stop perma stealth.

I don’t believe skills being added to detect stealth is healthy because I don’t believe anyone should be forced to carry a skill in one of their utilities purely to counter a single broken mechanic that another profession can exploit.

Engineers already counter thieves better than any other profession.

how about we remove stealth altogether, and while we’re at it lets take kits away from engis too, and rangers pets, and eles mist form, and necros death shroud, and mesmer clones, and just make all the classes the same… thatll make every1 happy :/

i man as much as i hate fighting thieves, its a part of their roll to have stealth, if you want to get rid of it then we might as well all just run warriors instead. leave the classes as are and learn to fight them.

Even without stealth, Thieves can still be played well. They have a lot of Evasion + shadowstepping.

This thread belongs either into the profession balance subforum or the engineer subforum. Engineer subforum would be better.

Diabetus.9874:

Give engineers something to counter stealth

Wut?

Bomb kit?

Oh..

Utility Goggles revealing stealth would make sense if the engi could give them to everyone in the vicinity.

It’s funny how the single most effective class against stealth is complaining about stealth. Good joke, OP.

Adding reveal to skills feels like a band aid solution. Rather than improving the implementation of stealth itself, adding another layer of balancing issues on top it feels counter-productive. Although I do agree that something needs to be changed.

Berformet.2981:

how about we remove stealth altogether, and while we’re at it lets take kits away from engis too, and rangers pets, and eles mist form, and necros death shroud, and mesmer clones, and just make all the classes the same… thatll make every1 happy :/

Call me crazy, but I would probably enjoy the game a little more without most of that, just saiyan xD

Kasei.8726:

Adding reveal to skills feels like a band aid solution. Rather than improving the implementation of stealth itself, adding another layer of balancing issues on top it feels counter-productive. Although I do agree that something needs to be changed.

Berformet.2981:

how about we remove stealth altogether, and while we’re at it lets take kits away from engis too, and rangers pets, and eles mist form, and necros death shroud, and mesmer clones, and just make all the classes the same… thatll make every1 happy :/

Call me crazy, but I would probably enjoy the game a little more without most of that, just saiyan xD

Kk guise here is plan. All play worrior. We boycott class diversity!!

If you’re an engi and are having a hard time with thieves you are doing something very, very, very wrong.

Come back again when I can dismiss all your turrets at will.

Gearbox.2748:

Ehm- could all of us get those please? or even better just remove the stealth part from wvw/pvp? would be nice.

Stealth is not an issue in sPvP. A stealthed thief/engi is not contesting/capping a point. I have had good laughs when a thief has been “defending” a point and then shadow refuges and stealths for 12 seconds in the middle of the fight.

Thanks for the points

Buy a few Stealth Disruptor Traps and max Build Mastery..

Sure it may be extreme to drop a trap and insta-build it while a thief is around you, but there’s nothing more hilarious than a thief that can’t stealth

I run a Interrupt-focus burst build.

It’s a thief that never stealths, which screws with most players upside down and wastes a few stealth traps in wvw ;-0

You’d be surprised how OP it can be to be able to interrupt-lock players at will, even when personally stunned by using Steal – which also steals Stability off players… XD

But engineers are still the strongest class even against this kind of thief build.

Dante.8456:

I don’t believe skills being added to detect stealth is healthy because I don’t believe anyone should be forced to carry a skill in one of their utilities purely to counter a single broken mechanic that another profession can exploit.

Gotta say I agree- Make the burning particle effect visible on stealthed players and be done with it. Burning is available on every class (in varying degrees, of course), doesn’t damage the other things attached to stealth the way revealed does (thieves can still stealth and get the associated trait bonuses for it) and the stealthers have a reasonable chance to cleanse it.

Piogre.2164:

Dante.8456:

I don’t believe skills being added to detect stealth is healthy because I don’t believe anyone should be forced to carry a skill in one of their utilities purely to counter a single broken mechanic that another profession can exploit.

Gotta say I agree- Make the burning particle effect visible on stealthed players and be done with it. Burning is available on every class (in varying degrees, of course), doesn’t damage the other things attached to stealth the way revealed does (thieves can still stealth and get the associated trait bonuses for it) and the stealthers have a reasonable chance to cleanse it.

All this would do is make the meta include more burning and push mesmers and thieves out of the meta, since stealth would be useless in a heavy burn meta.

Berformet.2981:

how about we remove stealth altogether, and while we’re at it lets take kits away from engis too, and rangers pets, and eles mist form, and necros death shroud, and mesmer clones, and just make all the classes the same… thatll make every1 happy :/

i man as much as i hate fighting thieves, its a part of their roll to have stealth, if you want to get rid of it then we might as well all just run warriors instead. leave the classes as are and learn to fight them.

Well there are quite a difference in how powerful those powers are.
Having the ability to become invisible is a very powerful ability. – if you don’t like a fight you can escape far easier. Mist form? certainly not permanent its 4 secs… 4 secs where you can’t do anything but move. and clearly visible where you are going. you can follow.- you can anticipate where they will go and place aoe on that location.. You don’t loose the target.. and its a trick you can’t repeat – unlike stealth

With stealth you can stay around or run in any direction and you loose the target… dump down aoe?- where? all over? you will run out of aoe soon.- you can just wait till the aoe are over and re-engage.

Element of surprise. Getting first strike capability is very powerful in a pvp environment- Especially if that profession also have heavy options to have burst ability… and the option to rinse and repeat—- stealth – burst – stealth – burst.
Just about any other profession you can see running towards you and act on it.
Most will even loose a second or two on reaction as you try to figure out where the attack came from.
Combine with stuns, petrify or similar and you can’t even respond after that for a few seconds.- Likely you will have to both try to get away.- rinse conditions. heal up and return fire— all that in the few seconds it takes for the thief to burst you down.

Sure clones can be annoying and even deadly- and they have stealth also.
Ranger pets:….seriously? what? oh noes— .
Death shroud: sure extra health and good damage..-. But they are clearly right there! You can fight something you can see… .a thief can just move out- stand around as invisible and look while the death shroud runs out.

Wow this, just…

This was just…

surprising? disappointing?

I don’t even know. I just really didn’t expect to hear a lot of thief complaints from engineers – one of the strongest classes against them.

I’m not 100% sure but aren’t utility goggles a thing that static discharge engis use? This could hypothetically remove a thief’s only defense against them.

I think more abilities do need to get the sic’em treatment but I think which ones should be very carefully selected.

I believe the point the OP is making is not that Engineers can’t deal with Thieves; they most certainly can, with the right build of course. It’s that there should be Stealth-countering abilities in the game, and currently, there are none. The Engineer’s Utility Goggles just happen to be the skill for which it makes the most sense to have them reveal Stealth. Engineers, just like everyone else, have no way to prevent a Thief or Mesmer from just exiting a fight whenever they feel like it.

Diabetus.9874:

They have devices which can re-enact ancient rituals and giant laser beams that shoot ancient dragons, but omg detecting stealthed enemies is completely baffling.

You realize though that this is a matter of balancing game mechanics, not a problem of lore?

(not that I am in favor of current stealth mechanics).

Diabetus.9874:

Utility Goggles – Reveal stealthed players + Prevents them from going back into
stealth for 3 secs.

*this would be added to the ability engineers already have

Give engineers something to counter stealth (Stealth disruptor traps don’t count.)

To anyone who flat out disagrees with this or its basic concept without giving good reason is more then likely someone who has invested a lot of time into their thief/mesmer. They don’t want their unfair advantage taken away and are just trying to prevent balance in WvW/PvP.

Thx,

Diabetus

They have devices which can re-enact ancient rituals and giant laser beams that shoot ancient dragons, but omg detecting stealthed enemies is completely baffling.

Engis besides necros are the strongest condis out there they dont need to be even more op no thanks.

In-combat stealth is a broken op mechanic, and it needs more counter skills from all classes, not only engineers. Other games have stealth too but generally only for stealthed roaming, not in combat.

The people opposing this idea must not know what utility goggles do, at the moment they are fairly useless unless you are using a SD build. Although it is a stun break a condi based engi would have to give up either a kit or elixir S just so they can stop a thief from stealthing for 4 seconds.

Adding reveal to sick ‘em did not make it so every single ranger added it on their utility bar, in fact I have barely ever seen it used. Adding reveal to sick em’ also didn’t remove thieves from the current meta and adding it to utility goggles wouldn’t either.

This would give SD engis a chance against thieves though as they wouldn’t have to worry about the blind from black powder and could also keep the thief visible a bit longer to land some blows. Thieves SHOULD eat SD engis alive as long as they avoid the initial burst, this change would at least give the eng a chance.

EDIT
After thinking about it since the introduction of reveal on sick em’ I have had it used on me exactly one time on my thief and all I had to do was shadow step out of range and wait a few seconds to stealth when the reveal ran out. Reveal in a 1 v 1 is extremely situational and only really useful if you have the thief beat and don’t want them getting away, it in no way would make engis any more “op” than they already are.

I play both a thief and engi about equally as mains and I see no problem with giving engis and every class for that matter a skill that gives reveal status. There is a good chance taking these reveal utilities would be useless 90% of the time and therefore leave the class worse off then if they just took a better ability.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

The people opposing this idea must not know what utility goggles do, at the moment they are fairly useless unless you are using a SD build. Although it is a stun break a condi based engi would have to give up either a kit or elixir S just so they can stop a thief from stealthing for 4 seconds.

Adding reveal to sick ‘em did not make it so every single ranger added it on their utility bar, in fact I have barely ever seen it used. Adding reveal to sick em’ also didn’t remove thieves from the current meta and adding it to utility goggles wouldn’t either.

This would give SD engis a chance against thieves though as they wouldn’t have to worry about the blind from black powder and could also keep the thief visible a bit longer to land some blows. Thieves SHOULD eat SD engis alive as long as they avoid the initial burst, this change would at least give the eng a chance.

EDIT
After thinking about it since the introduction of reveal on sick em’ I have had it used on me exactly one time on my thief and all I had to do was shadow step out of range and wait a few seconds to stealth when the reveal ran out. Reveal in a 1 v 1 is extremely situational and only really useful if you have the thief beat and don’t want them getting away, it in no way would make engis any more “op” than they already are.

I play both a thief and engi about equally as mains and I see no problem with giving engis and every class for that matter a skill that gives reveal status. There is a good chance taking these reveal utilities would be useless 90% of the time and therefore leave the class worse off then if they just took a better ability.

If any meta skill has an AoE revealed added, Shadow Refuge and Mass Invisibility goes away as useless skills. If lots of professions have targeted reveals added, glass thieves no longer exist and Decoy, Torch, and Mass Invisibility are removed from the Mesmer meta.

For all the complaints about thief and mesmer people must be overlooking that they are to GW2 conquest what Monk and Ritualistic are to GW1 GvG. They are the the squishy most crucial components of team comps.

Shockwave.1230:

Basket of Boxes.1976:

The people opposing this idea must not know what utility goggles do, at the moment they are fairly useless unless you are using a SD build. Although it is a stun break a condi based engi would have to give up either a kit or elixir S just so they can stop a thief from stealthing for 4 seconds.

Adding reveal to sick ‘em did not make it so every single ranger added it on their utility bar, in fact I have barely ever seen it used. Adding reveal to sick em’ also didn’t remove thieves from the current meta and adding it to utility goggles wouldn’t either.

This would give SD engis a chance against thieves though as they wouldn’t have to worry about the blind from black powder and could also keep the thief visible a bit longer to land some blows. Thieves SHOULD eat SD engis alive as long as they avoid the initial burst, this change would at least give the eng a chance.

EDIT
After thinking about it since the introduction of reveal on sick em’ I have had it used on me exactly one time on my thief and all I had to do was shadow step out of range and wait a few seconds to stealth when the reveal ran out. Reveal in a 1 v 1 is extremely situational and only really useful if you have the thief beat and don’t want them getting away, it in no way would make engis any more “op” than they already are.

I play both a thief and engi about equally as mains and I see no problem with giving engis and every class for that matter a skill that gives reveal status. There is a good chance taking these reveal utilities would be useless 90% of the time and therefore leave the class worse off then if they just took a better ability.

If any meta skill has an AoE revealed added, Shadow Refuge and Mass Invisibility goes away as useless skills. If lots of professions have targeted reveals added, glass thieves no longer exist and Decoy, Torch, and Mass Invisibility are removed from the Mesmer meta.

For all the complaints about thief and mesmer people must be overlooking that they are to GW2 conquest what Monk and Ritualistic are to GW1 GvG. They are the the squishy most crucial components of team comps.

Revealing might be too much, I was saying they should grant reveal status much like sick em does. It can’t be used to unstealth someone but it makes it so they cannot stealth for four seconds. I was thinking adding the revealed effect to the tool belt skill Analyze and not the goggles themselves makes more sense thematically but it means the cooldown might need an increase as if I remember correctly its pretty short. The ability would need to be timed very carefully if you want to to have any use whatsoever.

Oh god, say it isn’t so – ROFL — an Engineer (an Engineer for Christ’s sake!) that feels his class needs to have a class specific counter to thief stealth!

aahahahahahahahaha

Thanks dude, that was really funny, great joke.

It’s a really cool idea. Since some seem concerned that one profession gets to be the sole owner of this feature, perhaps it would be fair to make the person in stealth visible for just a very brief moment? It’s already taking up an an entire utility slot.

A few weeks ago I was 1 v 1 a thief with my warrior in WvW, that fight must have lasted some 6+ minutes which needless to say in GW2 is for ever, during all that time I saw the kitten thief maybe 15 seconds combined.
Neither of us could finish the other off, he didn’t had the power, I couldn’t see him long enough, the fight just ended because a blob passed by.

Something needs to done really, it’s just ridiculous, that and stomp from stealth! I’ve encountered thiefs that I literally don’t know what hit me, can’t even describe what they looked like.

Phadde.7362:

It’s a really cool idea. Since some seem concerned that one profession gets to be the sole owner of this feature, perhaps it would be fair to make the person in stealth visible for just a very brief moment? It’s already taking up an an entire utility slot.

This feature is already in the game and the fact people don’t know about it shows you just how “OP” it is. A lot of the complaints about stealth would be gone if every class had the option to take a utility that could counter a thief’s stealth if even only for 4 seconds.

Gearbox.2748:

Ehm- could all of us get those please? or even better just remove the stealth part from wvw/pvp? would be nice.

When they give thieves some real defense outside of stealth, sure.

Also, seriously? An Engi of all classes wanting a specific stealth counter? Do you have any idea how hard it is to touch a good engi?

Basket of Boxes.1976:

This feature is already in the game and the fact people don’t know about it shows you just how “OP” it is.

Sorry, what?

Thieves have plenty of defense outside of stealth. In sPvP where the reveal timer is already 1 second longer many thieves don’t even use stealth and instead rely on the bevy of evade skills, blinds and teleports available to them. The condi engineers thieves complain about are not the ones who would take this skill anyway as it is a waste of a utility for them, it would be used by power based engineers that thieves likely 2 shot.

I am not biased against thieves, in fact I have more time played on thief. Before WvW ranks were combined I had about 350 ranks on my thief compared to about 250 on eng but I do have slightly more PvP games played on eng. I would just like to see more counter play to stealth in this game. With the current implementation of stealth I can escape or reset any fight I want to on my thief and I only die when I am to stubborn to just run away when the odds aren’t in my favour.

How about something that makes actual sense, for example proximity bombs that go off when a stealthed person is near (unless the bombs determine the proximity by looking at people), same for exploding plant, and glue shot should definitely cover an invisible person…. I’m sure all classes have some skills that should already counter stealth one way or the other if, you know, physics.

Phadde.7362:

Basket of Boxes.1976:

This feature is already in the game and the fact people don’t know about it shows you just how “OP” it is.

Sorry, what?

Rangers can already apply revealed status to people using the shout Sic ’Em

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_'Em%22

Here’s what people aren’t understanding. Revealed being added to meta skills means teams can stack or chain revealed on thieves/Mesmer to prevent them from ever using stealth . What’s the result? Stealth being a mechanic that isn’t viable. This is counter to the design of the thief, and some Mesmer skills/traits.

Shockwave.1230:

Here’s what people aren’t understanding. Revealed being added to meta skills means teams can stack or chain revealed on thieves/Mesmer to prevent them from ever using stealth . What’s the result? Stealth being a mechanic that isn’t viable. This is counter to the design of the thief, and some Mesmer skills/traits.

I think you’re pushing that a few lightyears too far, tbh.

Shockwave.1230:

Here’s what people aren’t understanding. Revealed being added to meta skills means teams can stack or chain revealed on thieves/Mesmer to prevent them from ever using stealth . What’s the result? Stealth being a mechanic that isn’t viable. This is counter to the design of the thief, and some Mesmer skills/traits.

If you are talking about PvP teams are maximum 5 people and if you think teams are going to bring multiple engis or rangers with sic em to counter thief and mesmer stealth you are out of your mind.

Nope no way engineers built to duel crap all over thiefs and are one of the strongest duelist in the game tight now.

vincecontix.1264:

Nope no way engineers built to duel crap all over thiefs and are one of the strongest duelist in the game tight now.

Not even if you only see through stealth for a fraction of a second? Imagine playing as a thief and seeing the Engi using these goggles; You can very well take advantage of this by trying to fool your opponent by changing direction.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

Shockwave.1230:

Here’s what people aren’t understanding. Revealed being added to meta skills means teams can stack or chain revealed on thieves/Mesmer to prevent them from ever using stealth . What’s the result? Stealth being a mechanic that isn’t viable. This is counter to the design of the thief, and some Mesmer skills/traits.

If you are talking about PvP teams are maximum 5 people and if you think teams are going to bring multiple engis or rangers with sic em to counter thief and mesmer stealth you are out of your mind.

As soon as there’s 1 viable meta skill or trait that does reveal, every single mono class player is going to cry about how their class needs a skill or trait to put reveal on thieves and mesmers too.

All you’re setting yourself up for by adding reveal to the meta is more QQ from professions that don’t have it.

Even that 1 viable meta skill to inflict reveal will force thieves into using more short bow in team fights. It’ll make Hide in Shadows too risky to take over withdraw. If a thief engages in melee expect a reveal to be put on him, followed by a chained reveal so he can’t stealth for 8 seconds on top of the 4 he likely engaged with.

Giving teams viable meta skills with 8 seconds of revealed between 2+ ptofessions is a sure way to remove dagger thieves from the meta. S/D potentially goes away too. Leaving pistol whip the most viable option on paper. As for mesmers, expect similar tactics when people realize you have decoy, prestige, or MI.