Guild Wars 2

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

I hope it’s a fake, but i wouldn’t be surprised at all if this is the route they’re going to take.

If they’re not going to do expansions, then this is a good way to get peoples money along with releasing living story weapon/armor skins etc.

Tough its not true yet, its bad enough they consider doing that.

Aedelric.1287:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/

“no subscription fees!”

They add this, then I am getting my money back. VIP membership is a subscription model.

Well, considering I’ve heard more than handful of people saying they’d rather pay a monthly subscription over gems…

But regardless, the only way it becomes a subscription model is if you cannot run the client without having an active VIP membership. From what it looks like (presuming it is true), it’s if you drop [x] of [y] you get a bunch of perks that may or may not be gamebreaking depending on how they are implemented (the teleport and resurrect for example would depend entirely on what exactly they do and where).

From what it LOOKS like is being offered, it would impact every person who DIDN’T buy into it a massive amount of kitten all. Just a bunch of people panicking over nothing.

Or as I like to call it, business as usual in the GW2 official forums.

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

He made a very insulting and offensive argument, I wouldn’t put too much effort into responding.

A thread was just closed 8 mins ago by a Mark Katzbach. Maybe he can address this or send it along to someone that can.

One time buy for life = Not a problem. No different than using the gem store or picking up a gem card.

Monthly thing/based on gem purchase activity = Abject betrayal. Can’t defend that.

My money’s on the first one, and everyone is going to have a conniption anyway because unfettered emotional QQ is the hip thing to do round’ these parts.

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

No one is making you pay a subscription to play, so it wouldn’t become a sub based game. I see nothing that says it is changing the basic game for anyone involved. First and second paragraph more or less invalid.

What are these people winning? A discount on gem store items that most of the people who are up in arms against this said were “unnecessary” and “extra” in the first place? Hypocrisy.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

He made a very insulting and offensive argument, I wouldn’t put too much effort into responding.

Which broad group did you feel you fell into?

If true this will be the death of the game. ANet has lied about a lot of things but something this bad would simply not allow them to function as a developer anymore. It would probably be the worst betrayal I’ve ever witnessed in this entertainment medium.

I think everyone is a little too worried about this. ArenaNet has made some poor decisions in the past in my opinion, but they’ve never done anything to deliberately screw over the playerbase in an attempt to make more money. If they tick everyone off, they’ll lose profits, and it’s clear that the devs are pretty passionate gamers too.

I’m all for ANet continuing to think through options to generate more money to fund the development of the game because it means a win for both the company and the players. I would only be upset if they crossed the line and started penalizing players for profit, but as I’ve said, it will be their own grave if they choose to cross that line.

I highly doubt the VIP package will be a subscription thing. It will most likely be a one-time purchase, bought with gems. Probably something on the order of 4k gems. Maybe it will be priced cheaper if you pay real cash, and higher if you pay gems.

The reason I think it’s a single purchase is simply because of the boosts it provides. Namely extra bank space, additional bag slot, additional character slot, additional skill points, etc. They only make sense as one-time increases to your account.

If it were a subscription model, what happens when you stop paying? You lose the bank/bag/character slot they gave you? For skill points, do they take away the skills you bought with those extra points? And if you keep subscribing, do you get more skill points every month? A new character slot every month? The logistics just don’t work out with a subscription.

killcannon.2576:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

He made a very insulting and offensive argument, I wouldn’t put too much effort into responding.

Which broad group did you feel you fell into?

The first 2.
-In my opinion, subscription fees are a tumor upon MMO’s.
-Arenanet promised that everything we loved in GW1 would be in GW2. One of the greatest things about gw1 was no subscription fees of any kind.

seems kind of a like an april fools joke item

Tozen.9814:

I think everyone is a little too worried about this. ArenaNet has made some poor decisions in the past in my opinion, but they’ve never done anything to deliberately screw over the playerbase in an attempt to make more money. If they tick everyone off, they’ll lose profits, and it’s clear that the devs are pretty passionate gamers too.

The fact that they have made some poor decisions in the past is the reason why people are so worried and getting up in arms.

It is up to the playerbase to keep Arena Net on track, if they did not have players giving them feedback then they would not know what they are doing right or wrong.

Bear on the job.6273:

I highly doubt the VIP package will be a subscription thing. It will most likely be a one-time purchase, bought with gems. Probably something on the order of 4k gems. Maybe it will be priced cheaper if you pay real cash, and higher if you pay gems.

The reason I think it’s a single purchase is simply because of the boosts it provides. Namely extra bank space, additional bag slot, additional character slot, additional skill points, etc. They only make sense as one-time increases to your account.

If it were a subscription model, what happens when you stop paying? You lose the bank/bag/character slot they gave you? For skill points, do they take away the skills you bought with those extra points? And if you keep subscribing, do you get more skill points every month? A new character slot every month? The logistics just don’t work out with a subscription.

I was just thinking about this. I don’t see how they could take away most of these if you stopped subscribing, so I’m not sure how this would work as a subscription. A bit less worrying, but we’ll see what happens.

I think it’s high time we got an official response on this.

For me, this would also be some kind of a punch below the belt (no idea if that saying actually exists in english).

But yeah, looking at how the picture looks and all, it might as well be part of this year’s april fools joke (as others already guessed as well). I really hope so.

If its an single purchase (its better be if its not an april fool joke), it depends on the price, I dont think I would buy that, when you can get it cheaper separately. And that Mask tattoo for 400 gems is ridiculous too.

Requiem.8769:

Reference here.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1utx8p/data_mining_vip_membership/

What are your thoughts on VIP Membership bonuses? Categorized into
-payment method (either subscription-based; time-based, or single-time purchase?)
-gameplay (how would this affect the gameplay?)
-sociality (how would this affect player v. player interactions?)

Thanks for sharing this – it’s really interesting.

So I’m not opposed to VIP programs in principle, but the devil is in the details. It seems like most folks who are upset are assuming that it will be a monthly subscription and you won’t be able to pay for it using gold -> gems.

SWTOR has a “premium” membership that is earned with a single payment (under $10 I think), so the Tier 1 and Tier 2 VIP images could offer a choice between two different mechanisms, or two different price points.

In my opinion, changing the business model for SWTOR saved that game from cancellation, and while I think the free to play terms are a bit harsh, I’m not seeing a lot of divisiveness among F2P, premium members, and subscribers. The free to play/premium folks seem to vastly outnumber the subscribers (my experience only – don’t know for certain) so the subscribers can’t get too snobby or they won’t have anyone to run group up with. It all seems to be working fairly well. Most of the subscriber benefits are available as individual purchases, so non-subscribers have a way to cherry pick the features most important to them without committing to a monthly fee.

If adding a VIP program means more money rolling into the game, and translates directly into more ambitious changes and additions, why all the angst? I can see how teleport to friend and the resurrection buff would be problematic in WvWvW, but who said they won’t be PVE only? Maybe instead of folks threatening to rage quit over it, we should be designing the GW2 VIP program we’d like to see if such a thing were ever to exist.

Creeper.9360:

seems kind of a like an april fools joke item

It’s three months in advance and too mild to be an april fool’s joke. It’s too close to reality to immediately be recognized as a joke.

All Anet’s april fool’s jokes have been absurd in some sort of lovably flavor-breaking way. They did time-travel, they did helicopters, they did modern assault rifles, they did retro video games. They’ve never pulled off a stunt that would intentionally kitten off the majority of the population.

Pandemoniac.4739:

SWTOR has a…

I like how we’re comparing Anet to EA now.

I hope this is true, as I’ll be one of the first in line to purchase the VIP Membership. Gem purchasing players should be recognized as someone who supports this game. Perhaps some type of unique glowing aura to represent our Elite status?

That’s practically suicide, I call BS on that ‘leak’. If an online game is doing poorly they go f2p, not sub/vip foolishness in addition to purchase.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

killcannon.2576:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

He made a very insulting and offensive argument, I wouldn’t put too much effort into responding.

Which broad group did you feel you fell into?

The first 2.
-In my opinion, subscription fees are a tumor upon MMO’s.
-Arenanet promised that everything we loved in GW1 would be in GW2. One of the greatest things about gw1 was no subscription fees of any kind.

Sub based and hybrid model MMO’s have a significantly larger player base and income than either f2p or b2p models. One would think if they were such a “tumor” they wouldn’t have the largest player base or the highest income.

One thing I have noticed a lot of back and forth on the boards lately is about whether or not GW2 is quality enough to sustain a Sub, if they decided to go that route. If GW2 had launched with a sub, would it even be a footnote now compared to other sub based or hybrid model games? Many say it stands on it’s own regardless of payment model due to quality, but I never see these people say they would pay a sub for it. They want all these things like Horizontal progression, cosmetic gear grinds, skill based play, no vertical tiers……………..but no one is willing to actually pay for them.

If the dev’s are reading this, you should have your answer about what direction to take this game.

Creeper.9360:

seems kind of a like an april fools joke item

Doubtful, not only is April nearly three months away but this was caught inside the game code. Their is no precedence for this kind of joke, Arena Net simply do not make April Fools jokes like this, apart from that to joke with the player base in this way is in bad taste.

Absolutionis.9427:

Creeper.9360:

seems kind of a like an april fools joke item

It’s three months in advance and too mild to be an april fool’s joke. It’s too close to reality to immediately be recognized as a joke.

All Anet’s april fool’s jokes have been absurd in some sort of lovably flavor-breaking way. They did time-travel, they did helicopters, they did modern assault rifles, they did retro video games. They’ve never pulled off a stunt that would intentionally kitten off the majority of the population.

perhaps, although the best jokes usually have some kernel of truth in there

also haven’t there been items data mined before but haven’t seen the light of day in the game? like the swimsuits and the school girl outfits

I just have a hard time believing that this would be a thing, it would be a serious misstep. If they thought the furor over the flame kissed light armor was bad, this would be 10 times worse.

Tozen.9814:

I think everyone is a little too worried about this. ArenaNet has made some poor decisions in the past in my opinion, but they’ve never done anything to deliberately screw over the playerbase in an attempt to make more money. If they tick everyone off, they’ll lose profits, and it’s clear that the devs are pretty passionate gamers too.

I’m all for ANet continuing to think through options to generate more money to fund the development of the game because it means a win for both the company and the players. I would only be upset if they crossed the line and started penalizing players for profit, but as I’ve said, it will be their own grave if they choose to cross that line.

IMHO, there won’t be a subscription fee..would be too like a harakiri.
(and i’m quite the opposite of a fanboy)
well…i hope that news are false….nothing is so sure when depending on anet :o

it’s interesting to notice how ppl are unsatisfied about the game, so that any news is a bad news, and start whining and flaming in the forum.
i think that it should make anet think more about what it’s going on here.
what they did wrong to make players so angry.
and try to go back to what things used to be, when anet still deserved some trust.

They’ve already done buy gems get Mr. Sparkles and Co. rewards. This is a good, logical step. I really like The Secret World’s VIP membership INCLUDING getting exclusive minipets or clothing for buying the VIP that month. It’s a good incentive to support the game.

That being said, given the typos I kind of think this is either in very early development or for foreign markets and coming backwards.

killcannon.2576:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

killcannon.2576:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

He made a very insulting and offensive argument, I wouldn’t put too much effort into responding.

Which broad group did you feel you fell into?

The first 2.
-In my opinion, subscription fees are a tumor upon MMO’s.
-Arenanet promised that everything we loved in GW1 would be in GW2. One of the greatest things about gw1 was no subscription fees of any kind.

Sub based and hybrid model MMO’s have a significantly larger player base and income than either f2p or b2p models. One would think if they were such a “tumor” they wouldn’t have the largest player base or the highest income.

One thing I have noticed a lot of back and forth on the boards lately is about whether or not GW2 is quality enough to sustain a Sub, if they decided to go that route. If GW2 had launched with a sub, would it even be a footnote now compared to other sub based or hybrid model games? Many say it stands on it’s own regardless of payment model due to quality, but I never see these people say they would pay a sub for it. They want all these things like Horizontal progression, cosmetic gear grinds, skill based play, no vertical tiers……………..but no one is willing to actually pay for them.

If the dev’s are reading this, you should have your answer about what direction to take this game.

Gw1 had a lot more and better content than gw1 without ever having a subscription fee. Everything would have been fine if they just released expansion like they have always done!

I just hope this will be a one time purchase thing, then I’ll gladly pay. It would be the right thing to do.

Imbune.5497:

That’s practically suicide, I call BS on that ‘leak’. If an online game is doing poorly they go f2p, not sub/vip foolishness in addition to purchase.

City of Heroes and SWTOR both went to a hybrid model when things started going downhill. Lots of F2P games have “founders” packs that have similar types of benefits. It’s not exactly a new concept to have different tiers of players based on what they pay for the game.

Kevan.8912:

Tozen.9814:

I think everyone is a little too worried about this. ArenaNet has made some poor decisions in the past in my opinion, but they’ve never done anything to deliberately screw over the playerbase in an attempt to make more money. If they tick everyone off, they’ll lose profits, and it’s clear that the devs are pretty passionate gamers too.

I’m all for ANet continuing to think through options to generate more money to fund the development of the game because it means a win for both the company and the players. I would only be upset if they crossed the line and started penalizing players for profit, but as I’ve said, it will be their own grave if they choose to cross that line.

IMHO, there won’t be a subscription fee..would be too like a harakiri.
(and i’m quite the opposite of a fanboy)
well…i hope that news are false….nothing is so sure when depending on anet :o

it’s interesting to notice how ppl are unsatisfied about the game, so that any news is a bad news, and start whining and flaming in the forum.
i think that it should make anet think more about what it’s going on here.
what they did wrong to make players so angry.
and try to go back to what things used to be, when anet still deserved some trust.

What is going on.
Well very much this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571

And funny enough, the VIP thing would fit right in there showing there are not going into the correct direction but doing the opposite. We will see.

This better be a joke.

And even if its a joke, it’s a REALLY bad one.

We dont know how Tier 1 to Tier 20 is staggered (20 different prices), so they can have an impact, we dont know whats the prestige, recognition part of it. Or whats in the gift bag (like paying for emypreal shards) So everyone is running with a vip badge around like in kittenty browsergames, that smells totally like Nexon and Crystin Cox

I hope this isnt true!

Kevan.8912:

it’s interesting to notice how ppl are unsatisfied about the game, so that any news is a bad news, and start whining and flaming in the forum.
i think that it should make anet think more about what it’s going on here.
what they did wrong to make players so angry.
and try to go back to what things used to be, when anet still deserved some trust.

Honestly? Nothing really.

Go to ANY game’s official forums, and really take in the environment.

They are pretty much ALL like this. Official forums are where dissatisfied players go to complain. If it isn’t one group, it’s a different one. Even in your beloved GW1, you had dissatisfied barkers complaining about everything under the sun, and that game didn’t even have an official forums.

Honestly, maybe the question shouldn’t be, “what they did wrong to make players so angry” and more, “why do players always lose their kitten about everything?”

I mean, it’d be just as oversimplified a question with no real answer.

This is a work of NC Soft. Well… at least I won’t feel bad when I switch to TESO.
Broken main manifesto statement is unforgivable.

The poster of this has very reliably brought us datamined info for the last 9+ months. Almost 100% of what he has posted has been implemented into the game. The only thing I haven’t seen implemented that he has found, is precursor crafting, which we know is coming.

This is happening, and it shouldn’t be a big surprise to anyone. Revenue has been down for the last 3 quarters in a row. The game is sinking fast due to the failure that was Living Story and the absurd amount of grinding. NCSoft wants to start promoting wildstar in a big way, and that means it’s time to squeeze out every last penny they can from GW2 before moving on.

20 tiers of VIP membership though, lol that’s so sad it’s almost funny.

Oh well, EQN can’t come soon enough.

And what about the players that have the bank slots, character slots and bag slots maxed out? Do they get a VIP discount? Also would this be Soulbound to 1 toon or account wide on all your toons?

Devata.6589:

Kevan.8912:

Tozen.9814:

I think everyone is a little too worried about this. ArenaNet has made some poor decisions in the past in my opinion, but they’ve never done anything to deliberately screw over the playerbase in an attempt to make more money. If they tick everyone off, they’ll lose profits, and it’s clear that the devs are pretty passionate gamers too.

I’m all for ANet continuing to think through options to generate more money to fund the development of the game because it means a win for both the company and the players. I would only be upset if they crossed the line and started penalizing players for profit, but as I’ve said, it will be their own grave if they choose to cross that line.

IMHO, there won’t be a subscription fee..would be too like a harakiri.
(and i’m quite the opposite of a fanboy)
well…i hope that news are false….nothing is so sure when depending on anet :o

it’s interesting to notice how ppl are unsatisfied about the game, so that any news is a bad news, and start whining and flaming in the forum.
i think that it should make anet think more about what it’s going on here.
what they did wrong to make players so angry.
and try to go back to what things used to be, when anet still deserved some trust.

What is going on.
Well very much this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571

And funny enough, the VIP thing would fit right in there showing there are not going into the correct direction but doing the opposite. We will see.

well, i m one of the first ppl when there is some whine to be done

i m sure that the game has taken from a long time the direction of painful grind, treadmill, money cry and consequent ragequit (i already uninstalled)
but i feel that a fee would be too much bitter to swallow even for the most optimistic fanboy. can anet be so masochist?
(i would be very glad if it was xD)

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The poster of this has very reliably brought us datamined info for the last 9+ months. Almost 100% of what he has posted has been implemented into the game. The only thing I haven’t seen implemented that he has found, is precursor crafting, which we know is coming.

Actually it is more like 60% of what he have posted have appeared in the game. And the fact that ArenaNet KNOWS people are data-mining everything, it is quite unlikely that they would put something like this in without any kind of announcement prior.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

killcannon.2576:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

killcannon.2576:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Elric.6971:

killcannon.2576:

Chrispy.5641:

So Wait! I’m not understanding why this is a bad thing?

It’s more or less a sub service.

The casuals feel if there is a sub service then people actually willing to pay a sub get a leg up.

The blah blah blah f2p’s feel like it causes their whole argument of “Subs are dead!! Long live b2p and f2p!!” to blow up in their face.

The GW1 lifers feel like it’s just another stab in the back because it’s not the exact same thing as a game in the dirt for five years, and they think they own the rights to what should be called GW, not the developers.

The gem buyers are gonna cry because “But we already bought gems…where’s mine.We’re not as special anymore!”

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

Let me try to explain this to you as best as I can:

This is bad because, as pointed out before, paid VIP is subscription based, violating the “no subscription” aspect of the game. Half of this game’s appeal is being free, and that anything can be gained with some time. I’ve heard countless times people say: “even if you don’t like GW2 or get bored, you can always come back later and enjoy the same thing everyone else is.”

And whether the arguments of people threatening to leave over VIP status are valid or not, that does not change this turning a considerable amount of players against the game. It’s bad publicity, bad for marketing, “you pay for this game in subscription form” is NOT an advertising feature for box or digital releases.

Then there’s the fact that giving perks to people who are now willing or able to pay extra that may go beyond anything you can get in standard gameplay creates a financial wall of haves and have-nots. God, help Anet if such a thing extended to PVP.

Finally, there’s what this says about the Arenanet developers. Do you know why politicians will stand by bad ideas? Or better yet, stick by things that have worked well in the past and continue to work? Because it tells people that you can at least stick by what you’ve said.

Thus far, Arenanet has backed down from it’s manifesto, said they’ve been reinterpreting it, or that it’s just no longer valid. This struck many players as a sign Arenanet cannot stick by it’s word. VIP subscription status tells the existing playerbase Arenanet is willing to backflip on one of its core principles in their own interests. Once more, this is bad for marketing.

But I suppose if the larger, “True MMO crowd” you speak of flocks to this game because they can pay monthly for it, then any potential losses should shore itself up, right?

He made a very insulting and offensive argument, I wouldn’t put too much effort into responding.

Which broad group did you feel you fell into?

The first 2.
-In my opinion, subscription fees are a tumor upon MMO’s.
-Arenanet promised that everything we loved in GW1 would be in GW2. One of the greatest things about gw1 was no subscription fees of any kind.

Sub based and hybrid model MMO’s have a significantly larger player base and income than either f2p or b2p models. One would think if they were such a “tumor” they wouldn’t have the largest player base or the highest income.

One thing I have noticed a lot of back and forth on the boards lately is about whether or not GW2 is quality enough to sustain a Sub, if they decided to go that route. If GW2 had launched with a sub, would it even be a footnote now compared to other sub based or hybrid model games? Many say it stands on it’s own regardless of payment model due to quality, but I never see these people say they would pay a sub for it. They want all these things like Horizontal progression, cosmetic gear grinds, skill based play, no vertical tiers……………..but no one is willing to actually pay for them.

If the dev’s are reading this, you should have your answer about what direction to take this game.

Gw1 had a lot more and better content than gw1 without ever having a subscription fee. Everything would have been fine if they just released expansion like they have always done!

Probably. LS sucks (my opinion)

I would have bought, would still buy expansions for this game if they released them.

lordkrall.7241:

Why assume they didn’t just add it in there as a joke? They are fully aware that people are actively data-mining everything after all and it would seem quite silly to add something like this to the dat-file without even talking about it first.

Why on earth would you, or anyone else, assume this is a joke? What’s the more likely scenario here: that they would be so tactless to pretend to be adding something that would so greatly upset a very large number of their customers? Or that this is actually something they’re considering/have decided to add to the game?

killcannon.2576:

And your only point that I can see was that you were quitting because someone else may choose to pay a fee for some nebulous benefits that would not change your experience at all.

More power to you.

I’ll remember you said that when you, Vayne, Smooth Penguin, and Volkron are the only people left playing the game. You four might as well decide now which of the abandoned servers you’re going to call home.

chemiclord.3978:

Kevan.8912:

it’s interesting to notice how ppl are unsatisfied about the game, so that any news is a bad news, and start whining and flaming in the forum.
i think that it should make anet think more about what it’s going on here.
what they did wrong to make players so angry.
and try to go back to what things used to be, when anet still deserved some trust.

Honestly? Nothing really.

Go to ANY game’s official forums, and really take in the environment.

They are pretty much ALL like this. Official forums are where dissatisfied players go to complain. If it isn’t one group, it’s a different one. Even in your beloved GW1, you had dissatisfied barkers complaining about everything under the sun, and that game didn’t even have an official forums.

Honestly, maybe the question shouldn’t be, “what they did wrong to make players so angry” and more, “why do players always lose their kitten about everything?”

I mean, it’d be just as oversimplified a question with no real answer.

Ah this reaction again. If people complain it’s not the game but the people.
Thats a way to ignore problems.

killcannon.2576:

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

How so? Where is your source citing the developers statement that the implementation of a subscription fee would mean a shift away from gem shop-driven design or fully-polished content rather than bite-sized filler Living Story content?

The only thing that makes me go “hmmm” is the fact that it says “enroll”. That would be suspicious, but the fact that the rest of the image is riddled with typos…

It’s not unreasonable to assume that it’s just a poorly worded early mock up of some kind of VIP thing that they might do.

Again if it’s simply a big one time purchase, no harm no foul.

You don’t “need” any of that stuff the VIP member would get, and the gem discount can be looked at as a self-serving end.

Depending on how much of a discount the VIP earns after the initial membership purchase.

If you’re considering getting this, you’re already using the gemstore often enough.

This would serve as a big lifetime “thanks for your support, have a discount for the rest of your life with this purchase!” thing.

That’s not bad at all.

Now if it’s a system you have to buy into based on how often you use the gemstore, that’s a completely different ballgame.

There’s no defense for that and people would be justified in their anger. It would be an unquestionable betrayal of the gamer.

That said, despite the haters insistent QQ about ascended gear and other assorted BS to the contrary, Anet has never done anything like that to it’s gamers.

There’s no serious precedent there where Anet screws over it’s gamers. They spoil us, quite frankly. At least compared to some other companies out there.

We have little to go on at this point. Let the situation develop before we get the torches and pitchforks, hm?

I doubt the VIP membership is subscription based. But even if it is, we all agreed to it when we first bought the game. Section 4-b of the User Agreement states as such:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Besides, what difference will it make to those who choose to be normal players? VIP membership is “Opt in”. Players still have access to 100% of the game. VIPers would only get discounts and minor conveniences at best.

- Includes a misspelling of the word resurrection
- “benefits that make like worth living”

You mean they would not know how to write a proper PR poster. Evidence of Fake sums up on Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1utx8p/data_mining_vip_membership/celo4l5

Pandemoniac.4739:

Imbune.5497:

That’s practically suicide, I call BS on that ‘leak’. If an online game is doing poorly they go f2p, not sub/vip foolishness in addition to purchase.

City of Heroes and SWTOR both went to a hybrid model when things started going downhill. Lots of F2P games have “founders” packs that have similar types of benefits. It’s not exactly a new concept to have different tiers of players based on what they pay for the game.

I’d like you to highlight where in the post you quoted I said this is a new concept.

and then there is this from today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXbwMS-XPGk

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The poster of this has very reliably brought us datamined info for the last 9+ months. Almost 100% of what he has posted has been implemented into the game. The only thing I haven’t seen implemented that he has found, is precursor crafting, which we know is coming.

This is happening, and it shouldn’t be a big surprise to anyone. Revenue has been down for the last 3 quarters in a row. The game is sinking fast due to the failure that was Living Story and the absurd amount of grinding. NCSoft wants to start promoting wildstar in a big way, and that means it’s time to squeeze out every last penny they can from GW2 before moving on.

20 tiers of VIP membership though, lol that’s so sad it’s almost funny.

Oh well, EQN can’t come soon enough.

Well that revenue would go down (in the long run) with the approach they took is something people have been saying for close to a year now. Would they not have a focus on micro-transactions but on expansions for income the game would have a much longer life.

Then again maybe thats indeed not the goal of Ncsoft and will they like you say just try to squeeze out the last money and then move on.

If thats the case however I do wonder how ArenaNet looks at it. Don’t they see it? Do they see it but ignore it? I mean, they had this great expansion based model with GW1, they should see how the micro-transaction focus hurts this game.