Guild Wars 2

VOLKON.1290:

Devata.6589:

You can only instantaneously teleport to waypoints you already have so if a friend is leveling somewhere and you want to go there with your alt to level but don’t have the waypoints yet then it can easily be a 15 min walk. This benefit would take away those 15 min. I think thats pretty huge.

If I waypoint to a friend at a new location as you mention, how does this harm your game play in any way, shape or form? Shoot, would you even know I did it?

“I’d swear there were only three invaders in that keep. Where did the other twenty come from?” Remember that anything that works in PvE also works in WvW. It might not make a lot of difference every time, but I assure you I’d notice.

• Disclaimer: Answering a question as part of a theoretical “what-if” discussion only.

IndigoSundown.5419:

VOLKON.1290:

Devata.6589:

You can only instantaneously teleport to waypoints you already have so if a friend is leveling somewhere and you want to go there with your alt to level but don’t have the waypoints yet then it can easily be a 15 min walk. This benefit would take away those 15 min. I think thats pretty huge.

If I waypoint to a friend at a new location as you mention, how does this harm your game play in any way, shape or form? Shoot, would you even know I did it?

“I’d swear there were only three invaders in that keep. Where did the other twenty come from?” Remember that anything that works in PvE also works in WvW. It might not make a lot of difference every time, but I assure you I’d notice.

Resurrection Orbs do not work in WvW. Neither do the consumable boosters, far as I recall.

IndigoSundown.5419:

VOLKON.1290:

Devata.6589:

You can only instantaneously teleport to waypoints you already have so if a friend is leveling somewhere and you want to go there with your alt to level but don’t have the waypoints yet then it can easily be a 15 min walk. This benefit would take away those 15 min. I think thats pretty huge.

If I waypoint to a friend at a new location as you mention, how does this harm your game play in any way, shape or form? Shoot, would you even know I did it?

“I’d swear there were only three invaders in that keep. Where did the other twenty come from?” Remember that anything that works in PvE also works in WvW. It might not make a lot of difference every time, but I assure you I’d notice.

Actually… you’re wrong. What works in PvE is often disabled in WvW for that very reason.

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s why gold “runs everything”. It’s also very deeply ingrained in RPGs to have the basic necessities bought through gold (or a stand-in for it like “Zenny” or “gil”, or “pokedollars”) rather than through other means. Designers haven’t gotten away from it too far except for a few games I can think of, but MMOs almost always default to some form of coin currency as their basic building block.

As an amusing aside, in the first MMO I played (Asheron’s Call), gold/pyreal was so easy to get that it effectively became worthless. The players ended up basing their economy for the longest time on “shards” dropped from certain mobs. The really interesting part with this is after you had 32 of them, they had no personal intrinsic value anymore. You had your set of armor they produced and were more or less done with them forever.

In time as more consumable things were added that had intrinsic value, the “shard” economy fell apart, but it was an interesting development when it happened.

It was a rather interest bit of emergent behavior back then due to the lack of the built in currency having not much real significance.

Sorry for the off topic, but I thought you might find it interesting, Tobias.

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Gem store fluff is good. It’s better than good… it’s wonderful for the game. My engineer is decked out with gem store fluff because I like the look. In exchange for purchasing a look I happened to like I supported ANet a bit for their efforts and everyone wins. I also have other characters with looks I like that don’t have any purchased skins. Options are good. More options are better. The option to purchase options allows players to optionally help support the game with optional fluff. I like that option.

VOLKON.1290:

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Gem store fluff is good. It’s better than good… it’s wonderful for the game. My engineer is decked out with gem store fluff because I like the look. In exchange for purchasing a look I happened to like I supported ANet a bit for their efforts and everyone wins. I also have other characters with looks I like that don’t have any purchased skins. Options are good. More options are better. The option to purchase options allows players to optionally help support the game with optional fluff. I like that option.

Post of the day +9000

:D

erroch.8061:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s why gold “runs everything”. It’s also very deeply ingrained in RPGs to have the basic necessities bought through gold (or a stand-in for it like “Zenny” or “gil”, or “pokedollars”) rather than through other means. Designers haven’t gotten away from it too far except for a few games I can think of, but MMOs almost always default to some form of coin currency as their basic building block.

As an amusing aside, in the first MMO I played (Asheron’s Call), gold/pyreal was so easy to get that it effectively became worthless. The players ended up basing their economy for the longest time on “shards” dropped from certain mobs. The really interesting part with this is after you had 32 of them, they had no personal intrinsic value anymore. You had your set of armor they produced and were more or less done with them forever.

In time as more consumable things were added that had intrinsic value, the “shard” economy fell apart, but it was an interesting development when it happened.

It was a rather interest bit of emergent behavior back then due to the lack of the built in currency having not much real significance.

Sorry for the off topic, but I thought you might find it interesting, Tobias.

I do find it interesting. I lived through something similar in my first MMO: Meridian 59. Where the currency (shillings) were duped into existence and spread out so much the GMs couldn’t track it all down. (And we are talking maybe five to ten people total, not a team of couple dozen.)

So instead other items became commodities, such as components which were used up for high-level spells and were uncommon drops. Sure, you had to get them first but if you were high enough it stopped being an issue.

. . . and it’s how “Ecto” became a unit of currency in GW1 too, thanks to the limitation of trades being 100 platinum (which was 1000 gold or “1k”) and some things being just more valuable. Heck there was a time “Armbraces” were a currency until there was a ton of duping on those, and it slid back to Ectos.

On the gem store…

I enjoy the game, I like that I’m not required to shell out $15 a month to continue playing, and I enjoy that we don’t have our content and progression segregated into “pay for expansion to win” style deliverable. (In the expansion model traditionally there is an increase in item power and or character level tied with the new content to force everyone to pick them up to remain competitive)

Another side effect of most expansion driven MMO’s is that you usually get completely new isolated content in the expansion and everything else rots. There is a mind set caused by the business model that because it’s not new, it’s not what people are paying for. Anything added to the old areas beyond small quality of life issues, is not driving forward your profit-model. An example of this: how many years was it before WoW revisited the vanilla areas. They only did so when they became pain points for new players and they needed to touch the areas anyway to implement new tech for an expansion.

Love or hate the living world story, but we’re getting a trickle in expansion effectively. New skills (arguably of dubious use in some cases), some temporary and permanent content, and because of the model they don’t need to worry about segregating the content, or effectively making it “pay to win by expansion.”

It is a rather interesting idea to me that even the person who bought the game on sale and never dropped another penny into the game can be competitive with someone who has sunk a hundreds of dollars into the game.

There isn’t any other MMO, I think, that has pulled it off to this level of effectiveness without a subscription while pushing regular content.

I’ve looked at the gem store as, not so much as a requirement, but a way to say “Hey, thanks for that $15 bucks” instead of “Give us your $15 or sod off” or “This will be your annual $60 contribution to the expansion, buy it now or forever alone in game”.

As long as required items don’t end up in the gem store, I’m pretty content with it.

As a side effect from this, I don’t feel the pressure to play to get my “money’s worth” in GW2 as I have in many other MMO’s. If I decide to take a month or two off to do something like learn another language (python was fun), create some artwork, hit crunch time at work on a release, or just focus on another aspect of my life, it’s not a big deal. I’m not “wasting money”.

So yes, I’m buying Gems. I’m happy to do so. I and quite a few of the folks I play with will continue to do so because we enjoy the game and don’t want it to close because it became unprofitable. I don’t see it as “ruining the game” as much as telling ANet"I had a lot of fun with the game this month, well done. " and buying the type of items I wouldn’t mind seeing more of in the gem store.

It’s their product so they can do whatever they want. If you don’t want to buy it just don’t buy it, or move on to another game.

lordkrall.7241:

How is this thread still going on?
We have confirmation (as many of us stated when this was revealed) that it is for the Chinese release of the game, and yet people are still shouting about how much it sucks and how bad ArenaNet are.

I for one would say that you owe them an apology for this whole thread, but then again, who am I kidding?

If it was meant for Chinese then why the texts are in English? Shouldn’t they be in Chinese?

Ronah.2869:

If it was meant for Chinese then why the texts are in English? Shouldn’t they be in Chinese?

English developers and English testers. Make sure it all works in English then send it to an localization team and say “Translate this.”

At least that is how it works with the companies I’ve done development work for.

Ronah.2869:

lordkrall.7241:

How is this thread still going on?
We have confirmation (as many of us stated when this was revealed) that it is for the Chinese release of the game, and yet people are still shouting about how much it sucks and how bad ArenaNet are.

I for one would say that you owe them an apology for this whole thread, but then again, who am I kidding?

If it was meant for Chinese then why the texts are in English? Shouldn’t they be in Chinese?

You build the framework in a language you can actually speak then let the translators modify it when you’re happy with it.

VOLKON.1290:

What’s hard about it? What’s to even understand? Someone can teleport to a friend in an area they haven’t been to yet… and then they’ve been there and can waypoint with ease. OK, they saved a little time running. How is this a huge benefit? A little time saved by someone means what… they start gathering mats in an area ten minutes faster? Maybe they port to an event that’s happening and really shake things up by having fun. I’m seeing a lot of complaining about a whole lot of not much.

Pretty sure your reaction is about buying gems and my general complain was about how the focus on gems is bad for the game. I will not explain it yet another time for you, will be a waste of my time.

I explained it many times in this thread, liked to another thread with an explanation. If you still don’t understand it I can’t help that. Thats then to bad but I will not keep repeating myself.

juno.1840:

Xia.3485:

The gem store in GW2 isn’t a problem. The lack of new armor sets outside the gem store is the problem.

That’s the same as saying “the gem store is a problem”. Why do you think there’s a lack of new armor oustide the gem store? Why would ANet create a situation where the new armor sets are in the gem store?

• light bulb moment *

This is the link (well one example of it) some people do not understand. It would be good if they did. But some might never understand it.

Interested to see how this works seeing as the game is moving further towards pay to win rather than away from it.

I really have been warning people about the P2W state of this game, and it seems to be intensifying as other MMO’s get close to release.

Thanks for the link OP!

Aeonblade.8709:

Interested to see how this works seeing as the game is moving further towards pay to win rather than away from it.

I really have been warning people about the P2W state of this game, and it seems to be intensifying as other MMO’s get close to release.

Thanks for the link OP!

please tell me how this vip pass is pay to win ??

Maybe they want to make GW2 a F2P game in Asia so they need VIP member ship for better options. Many Asian games have this model so my guess is they need to release it as F2P. I don’t know any Chinese MMO being sold as a B2P. They all have this sort of VIP thing so your character “life” is made easier

Why is this thread still going on? They already confirmed, it’s not happening!

It might happen in asia (even that is not is not set in stone yet) but not for the western version.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Why is this thread still going on? They already confirmed, it’s not happening!

because any confirmation from anet has IMHO a….questionable trustworthiness.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Why is this thread still going on? They already confirmed, it’s not happening!

Feelings of betrayal, emotional involvement in the argument going on, and it helps the topic got shifted to the very existence of the Gem Store proving this is going to exist eventually.

Grab some popcorn, I’ve got the nachos, and enjoy the show.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Devata.6589:

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~ [Had some problems getting it to fit.]

And I am not talking about exploits so people get extremely big amounts of such an item.. No just the ability to farm it much like you can in many mmo’s.

They did it in Guild Wars 1, almost constantly.

I’ll start by pointing out there was a farm well known in the Crystal Desert which was lucrative and got beat with the nerf stick pretty fast. Before Factions, in fact.

You say “maybe we should address how gold works”, thats what I do when I talk about how the gems effect the game mechanics. It are not 2 separate things.

It’s part of what’s going on in the CDI, how do we use “skill” as a sort of currency to allow people to earn their stuff rather than time/grind or gold/cash.

- Not sustainable? GW1 was the only big name that hold for multiple years next to GW2. When they released Eye of the North they where already working on GW2 (thanks to the success of GW1) and implemented a cash-shop, likely to generate money when not focusing on gems anymore as GW1 was then an old product. If it was not sustainable you would not have been playing GW2 now.
Underlaying issues (like GW1 not being an open world / MMO maybe? and the skill thing you say). They did not say they could not support the game. If they could not they would not have gotten the money for GW2.

They say it did not influence the game that much partly because most of it time it did have no or only a very limited cash-shop and not a focus in the world on it. They introduced the cash-shop much later and probably around the time they decided to go work on GW2. Until then GW1 proven itself with it’s expansion based model

Yes I would consider that a good step and I did post it in the CDI. However the mini’s is an example. It’s the same for getting dyes or getting much the the ingredients you need for crafting or going for a legendary. Many stuff require you to grind gold (or buy it with gems) and then buy the items in stead of going for it in the world. And while I did put it in the CDI I think it will not be solved as long as they keep generating income with gems. Sure they can throw some items into the world (they already did that with a few mini) but most of them will still be a gold-grind.

The way you describe gold it pretty much works in every MMO. But my example with the mini’s (what you agreed up on) shows how pretty much the only way to get them is with gold. Thats what I mean with “gold is everything”. If you would get your mini’s in the game, and could farm high tier materials for crafting in the game and so on you would still also be able to buy them with gold. That stays the same. However the way it’s now implemented gold really the only good way (best) to get it. Most of the higher tier crafting material I can not farm somewhere (extreme low drop change or general drop-change so I can not focus one type of mob).. I am better of grinding gold and then buying it from people who most likely did get it as an accidental drop. Thats what I mean with “gold is everything”. Not that you can buy so much with it (thats in many mmo’s the case) but that it’s really the own reasonable / best way to get it while ‘farming’ the items directly in the world isn’t. Hope you now understand what I mean with that.

With my explanation about ‘gold is everything’ I hope you also understand this the way I feel it. Meaning that the game is deliberately implemented in a way thats it’s very hard or impossible to farm for items directly. Thats a choice you make as game-designer and it does mean that then getting items is always done best by farming gold and so making gold more important.

Only played GW1 a very short while long after they stopped developing it so can’t say much about that. However I want to imply that there is a difference between now allowing people to easily get an items and making farming items pretty much impossible and by that making gold always the optimal way. In your example you are also talking about ‘a lucrative farm’ but that raises the question. Was is then maybe more then being able to farm it. Anyway, would love to compare those patches but simply don’t know enough about those to try and do that.

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

The current model is focused on gem-sales. Thats what I am pretty much complaining about (or the effect that has).

So how to then finance it.. Change the model to sell expansion. How I then support it?

Buying expansions.

So pretty much this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/VIP-Membership/page/9#post3476488

VOLKON.1290:

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Gem store fluff is good. It’s better than good… it’s wonderful for the game. My engineer is decked out with gem store fluff because I like the look. In exchange for purchasing a look I happened to like I supported ANet a bit for their efforts and everyone wins. I also have other characters with looks I like that don’t have any purchased skins. Options are good. More options are better. The option to purchase options allows players to optionally help support the game with optional fluff. I like that option.

Supporting the game. No you are helping do destroy it. If they know you will buy fluff in the gem-store when it’s available there they will put less fluff in the world to get trying to get you to buy it in the gem-store so effectively removing a game-element of the game (why is it so hard to understand this? I really don’t get it. That the gold trick they use is a little harder I understand but this sort of mechanics). If you want to support a game you could buy an expansion.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Gem store fluff is good. It’s better than good… it’s wonderful for the game. My engineer is decked out with gem store fluff because I like the look. In exchange for purchasing a look I happened to like I supported ANet a bit for their efforts and everyone wins. I also have other characters with looks I like that don’t have any purchased skins. Options are good. More options are better. The option to purchase options allows players to optionally help support the game with optional fluff. I like that option.

Post of the day +9000

:D

lol. Yeah +9000 for not seeing how the one thing effects the other.

this might give them an idea to put data mining against the terms of use… pretty soon

Devata.6589:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Gem store fluff is good. It’s better than good… it’s wonderful for the game. My engineer is decked out with gem store fluff because I like the look. In exchange for purchasing a look I happened to like I supported ANet a bit for their efforts and everyone wins. I also have other characters with looks I like that don’t have any purchased skins. Options are good. More options are better. The option to purchase options allows players to optionally help support the game with optional fluff. I like that option.

Post of the day +9000

:D

lol. Yeah +9000 for not seeing how the one thing effects the other.

It was more for his multiple use of option, but your attitude has brought me to his side regardless. Yay!

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Why is this thread still going on? They already confirmed, it’s not happening!

It might happen in asia (even that is not is not set in stone yet) but not for the western version.

You really can’t ever say never. If it looks like it’s working to them in the east, it’s a simple matter of flagging it for the western builds as well.

Devata.6589:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Gem store fluff is good. It’s better than good… it’s wonderful for the game. My engineer is decked out with gem store fluff because I like the look. In exchange for purchasing a look I happened to like I supported ANet a bit for their efforts and everyone wins. I also have other characters with looks I like that don’t have any purchased skins. Options are good. More options are better. The option to purchase options allows players to optionally help support the game with optional fluff. I like that option.

Post of the day +9000

:D

lol. Yeah +9000 for not seeing how the one thing effects the other.

So I’m up to +18000, not bad.

It’s surprising the venom you’re spewing at what has to be simply the least invasive gem store I’ve personally seen yet in a game. It seems the argument has evolved past the old and invalid “pay to win” and gone onto “too much fluff” when the intent was for it to simply be fluff. This is perhaps the best cash shop in any MMO out there and has proven to be good for the game (revenue and creativity) as opposed to your unfounded assertions that it’s somehow bad for GW2.

Repeating a fallacy doesn’t make it true, and screaming an opinion won’t change it to fact.

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

You have point but I’m not completely agree with you.
Company have tendency too:
1. Get profit (get more money than was spent)
2. Maximize profit (get as much profit as possible)
Option 1 is mandatory. If they are not getting enough money to pay salary/expenses than they’ll make your life miserable by adding all kinds of pay to win regardless you opinion or manifesto.
Option 2 is important but negotiable. If company is in profit it start caring about feedback cause if community is frustrated profit can be lost.
In my opinion support with gems is a good option. But they need to add some kind of survey in game and make public. So community sees what is important for ppl and how anet works on fixing it. Voting can be made using gems (still can be banned by a big chunk of community to not let pay-2-win options pass).

Devata.6589:

- Not sustainable? GW1 was the only big name that hold for multiple years next to GW2. When they released Eye of the North they where already working on GW2 (thanks to the success of GW1) and implemented a cash-shop, likely to generate money when not focusing on gems anymore as GW1 was then an old product. If it was not sustainable you would not have been playing GW2 now.

I may have picked the wrong way for the term, but I was more getting at the point of GW1 becoming “stale” and hamstrung by the game’s workings. The first was said by a lot of people as to why they were only logging in for special events, the second is what I recall devs saying about why GW2 instead of more GW1.

Underlaying issues (like GW1 not being an open world / MMO maybe? and the skill thing you say). They did not say they could not support the game. If they could not they would not have gotten the money for GW2.

But it couldn’t grow any more. All it could do is keep going on, with less content additions than we get now through Living Story and increasingly skill-restricted (player skill not game skill) stuff which required people to have a lot of technical knowledge to progress.

Which means it’s not sustainable beyond that point. The game’s done growing. Sure, it can get new people now and then but it starts showing age against newer games. But if you’re not selling new expansions and your cash shop isn’t turning over enough . . . well, how can you sustain it?

They say it did not influence the game that much partly because most of it time it did have no or only a very limited cash-shop and not a focus in the world on it. They introduced the cash-shop much later and probably around the time they decided to go work on GW2. Until then GW1 proven itself with it’s expansion based model

The cash shop was present from really early, notably about a year after the game launched. It wasn’t introduced “much later” and I wish people stopped saying that . . .

Also, as I pointed out above, no new expansions meant there was a finite amount each new player would be “buying into” with the game without touching the cash shop.

The way you describe gold it pretty much works in every MMO. But my example with the mini’s (what you agreed up on) shows how pretty much the only way to get them is with gold.

No, the way the minis exist now the only way to get them is with Gems. Or converting Gold to Gems. I’d really like it if it was just Gold and Gems never came near it, or again if it was drop chance or “hey, you completed your Monthly, have a random mini pack”.

Only played GW1 a very short while long after they stopped developing it so can’t say much about that. However I want to imply that there is a difference between now allowing people to easily get an items and making farming items pretty much impossible and by that making gold always the optimal way. In your example you are also talking about ‘a lucrative farm’ but that raises the question. Was is then maybe more then being able to farm it. Anyway, would love to compare those patches but simply don’t know enough about those to try and do that.

I’m sure some veterans still kicking around will remember it.

Devata.6589:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

The current model is focused on gem-sales. Thats what I am pretty much complaining about (or the effect that has).

So how to then finance it.. Change the model to sell expansion. How I then support it?

Buying expansions.

So pretty much this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/VIP-Membership/page/9#post3476488

Here’s why I prefer the micro-transaction model to both the subscription model or the expansion model:

1) When I played a subscription MMORPG, some part of me felt like I should be playing so many hours a day to justify paying the monthly subscription. It stopped feeling like something I wanted to do to something I had to do, and eventually, I burned out and cancelled. With the micro-transaction model, I can play for an hour a month if I want and don’t have to worry about it.

2) With the expansion model, expansions have to come out regularly, and they have to be filled with content… to the point where it’s almost a brand new game. With that, the company that puts out the product are pretty much under a hard timeline, to keep money rolling in. This leads itself to shoddy programming and bugs of all sorts coming out without being properly tested. It also lends itself to game imbalances because proper time wasn’t given to work out the details of what was over or under powered.

3) With an expansion model (and usually subscription model), there will come a point in time where level increases are part of the expansion. If you don’t buy the expansion, you can’t level beyond a certain point. I don’t know about anyone else, but that model has a “pay to win” feel to it, since if I don’t feel like buying the expansion, I’m levels behind.

Now, with the micro-transaction model, I have the option of paying for those items I want and skipping the items I don’t find worth it. This is, of course, assuming that the items available for purchase don’t give unfair advantages, thereby forcing you to buy them. If it’s cosmetic or a convenience item, I’m all for it.

In the end, it’s all about opinion. However, I personally don’t see how using the micro-transaction model hurts the game in any way. It’s all about what one feels valuable enough to purchase, and not about being forced to purchase that which one does not even want.

TL;DR… In my opinion, micro-transactions are fine as they are.

erroch.8061:

On the gem store…

I enjoy the game, I like that I’m not required to shell out $15 a month to continue playing, and I enjoy that we don’t have our content and progression segregated into “pay for expansion to win” style deliverable. (In the expansion model traditionally there is an increase in item power and or character level tied with the new content to force everyone to pick them up to remain competitive)

Another side effect of most expansion driven MMO’s is that you usually get completely new isolated content in the expansion and everything else rots. There is a mind set caused by the business model that because it’s not new, it’s not what people are paying for. Anything added to the old areas beyond small quality of life issues, is not driving forward your profit-model. An example of this: how many years was it before WoW revisited the vanilla areas. They only did so when they became pain points for new players and they needed to touch the areas anyway to implement new tech for an expansion.

Love or hate the living world story, but we’re getting a trickle in expansion effectively. New skills (arguably of dubious use in some cases), some temporary and permanent content, and because of the model they don’t need to worry about segregating the content, or effectively making it “pay to win by expansion.”

It is a rather interesting idea to me that even the person who bought the game on sale and never dropped another penny into the game can be competitive with someone who has sunk a hundreds of dollars into the game.

There isn’t any other MMO, I think, that has pulled it off to this level of effectiveness without a subscription while pushing regular content.

~

It should be “On the gem store focus..” thats where you make the mistake.

And yes many MMO’s have vertical progression (whatever model they use) so once they release an expansion (new content / new level) there is vertical progression locked behind it. Then again, if you decide to not have vertical progression in your game thats not the case. The vertical progression is not a requirement for an expansion in any way. It; not like the one belongs to the other. The one big game that was expansion driven for example was GW1 and there was no vertical progression after the original game.

“Another side effect of most expansion driven MMO’s is that you usually get completely new isolated content in the expansion and everything else rots.” If you would not do it in the correct way. But if you do it good skins, quest, new game mechanics, new hairstyles and other items can be added to the world thats already available (but some of it only for those who did buy the expansion). And in some expansions you can also come back to an old area. I am just going to refer to WoW here because you so as well. In it’s expansions they did not forget the old area’s. When they introduces flying mounts they did a lot of work on the ‘old’ maps. They also upgraded graphics for example the upcoming expansion has new (higher quality) models for existing races and they also did a patch where they gave old maps a big overhaul. So no, when done correctly you don’t forget about the ‘old’ area’s.
Let me also answer your question. Little thinks had been adding even with the first 2 expansions (items, graphics and so on). The 3th expansion was a huge overhaul for the beginning area including adding the ability to fly there with mounts. And the 5th expansion will update the model from multiple races that where in since the beginning. Can’t say they ‘forgot about it’.

If P2W with expansions means you have no access to content when you do not have the expansion then LS is P2W for those being able to play every temporary living story. Of course both is not P2W but I am just following your logic here.

“It is a rather interesting idea to me that even the person who bought the game on sale and never dropped another penny into the game can be competitive with someone who has sunk a hundreds of dollars into the game. “
This has really to do with P2W but thats only interesting in the PvP area. I am mainly talking about how it effects the PvE area. Somebody who came in much later might can get just as strong but did miss a lot of content. Then again, now it becomes to much a LS discussion so I will leave it with that. I just want to stretch again thats it are not so much the items itself that are the problem but how the focus on selling gems effects game mechanics in a negative way.

Xillllix.3485:

It’s their product so they can do whatever they want. If you don’t want to buy it just don’t buy it, or move on to another game.

I did pay for it so I can give criticism about it if I like. Came with the package. You should be happy that some people do leave criticism because if they didn’t and everybody would just leave the game did not even get a fair change to fix there mistakes.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

juno.1840:

erroch.8061:

Devata.6589:

With buying gems you are not supporting the game you are helping to destroy it. And I will not explain why again.

Explain in the current model how you financially support the game without buying gems please.

You can’t beyond box sales — which is a problem. We will continue to get more gem store fluff unless the current model is changed. I have not, and will not, push RL cash into the gem store — ever. I will give RL money for expansions (but at this point I would have to see what the expansion offers as my faith in the franchise is shaken).

Gem store fluff is good. It’s better than good… it’s wonderful for the game. My engineer is decked out with gem store fluff because I like the look. In exchange for purchasing a look I happened to like I supported ANet a bit for their efforts and everyone wins. I also have other characters with looks I like that don’t have any purchased skins. Options are good. More options are better. The option to purchase options allows players to optionally help support the game with optional fluff. I like that option.

Post of the day +9000

:D

lol. Yeah +9000 for not seeing how the one thing effects the other.

It was more for his multiple use of option, but your attitude has brought me to his side regardless. Yay!

Congrats! Very happy for you.