Guild Wars 2

I bought 800 gems for the purpose of attaining at least one of these new shadow weapon skins, however to my surprise I got only two scraps and some random stuff I have no use for. Here’s my honest question: Why is it that you can buy full outfits / cool looking armor in the gemstore for 700-800 gems (which is very reasonable), but you need to rely on RNG to attain the weapon skins? It’s gambling. Most people I know are not willing to gamble 20-30€ for a chance to get 1-2 weapon skins. I could get an entirely new game with that kind of money.

The other option is to buy roughly 1600 gems from the store, but that’s 20€ right there. One shadow weapon skin costs around 105g and you can convert roughly 800 gems to that amount. That’s huge overpricing. 20€ for two weapon skins? That’s an extremely questionable way to price your items. At least it isn’t as big of an overpricing as the resurrection orbs. Now those are the real overpriced ones. Anyway, I hope to god that someday I can actually buy the weapon skins from the shop itself with a reasonable price, because I cannot agree with this.

Also, 10 Black Lion Scraps for 1 Black Lion Claim Ticket? I paid 10€ and I got two scraps. Needless to say that was the last time I will buy Black Lion Keys for weapon skins.

Also, for the trolls I am no “scrub” in this game. I got all professions at level 80. I believe my opinion is worth at least something.

This is a common complaint on these forums, but it obvious that ANet makes more money through this gambling method than through simple purchase methods. This also keeps these skins more rare in general.

The price of skins on TP isn’t set by A.Net, but by players.

That’s just the nature of the F2P or Freemium lock box bamboozle. The ugly truth is that they made far more money from you gambling your hard-earned money away than if they would just charge you for the skin. The sad thing is…people like myself would gladly purchase a sweet looking skin but to hell with buying RNG lock box keys.

Yeah, better just buying new skins from the Tp instead of spending MORE on rng boxes hoping to get a skin tbh.

The house always wins.

800 Gems should have been converted into gold, and the gold used to buy the skin on the TP.

Never, ever, ever buy keys in order to get something. They are a gamble, and as such you are only guaranteed a spin of the wheel, not any specific thing on the wheel.

This saddens me greatly. Also thanks for legit opinions.

And that’s why key runners run keys instead of buying them. I have no idea what the percentage of the BL weapon skins are from key runners, but I bet it’s most of them.

If you ever want to know what your odds of winning against the house are just check out the opulence in Las Vegas. Many many tears went into the cement of those multi-million dollar buildings.

Bottom line is if you like a skin, dye, node or anything else wrapped behind a RNG wall your best bet is to just buy it on off the TP outright. If however you like to gamble then by all means give it a shot, but just remember the house always wins in the end.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

And that’s why key runners run keys instead of buying them. I have no idea what the percentage of the BL weapon skins are from key runners, but I bet it’s most of them.

Yeah, those skins wouldn’t be nearly as cheap if most of the sellers had gotten them by spending their money/gold on the keys.

The main difference is that the armor/outfits are only available for gems while the BL weapon skins are also tradeable on the BLTP.
So you got the option to buy them with gold on their price is dependant on the value the player put on them (as well as the price in tickets).
Its basically 2 different “business” models.

Since overall people seem to have an innate desire for gambling, they keep this method of acquiring items because they know there are people that either routinely collect everything or will want a given item (like the new black dye) to the point that they will buy dozens or even hundreds of the chests in order to get it/them.

In this way, they make more money than if they simply sold the item straight for gems in the store. Their economist, or whoever, has already run the numbers and knows they’ll make more money this way. Now, if the vast majority of players refused to play with the RNG and simply wrote off the boxes as a waste of their money, they would do it the other way.

I don’t get the people that support this kind of business. It’s so expensive it’s unreal.

Raigai.4218:

I don’t get the people that support this kind of business. It’s so expensive it’s unreal.

Whales gambling with rng boxes > pay walls all over the game. As long as it makes anet money and is not affecting me in any way I am cool with it.

Raigai.4218:

I don’t get the people that support this kind of business. It’s so expensive it’s unreal.

It’s a business model that prays on those who don’t know the odds or those with poor impulse control. Things like the BLchests, bundles that cost even more than the individual pieces (for permanent items) or the one day wings sale and time limited sales in general are just disgusting in my eyes.
I know that the devs themselves love the game and its community but the person who’s in charge of the pricing for the gemshop obviously doesn’t.

I know ANet is a business and needs to make money but the pricing of most stuff in the gem shop is rather insulting and the RNG nature of many of their items just makes it look like they see their playserbase as utter m*****.
I support finishers and mail curiers as well as some other stuff like instruments or permanent tools (even though 1000 gems is really heavy, considering we can only but gems in increments of 800, effectively forcing you to double dip, which is also shady AF and don’t get me started on all the questionable prices of 500, 700 etc.) as a means to raise money but those overpriced consumables, RNG keys and low effort costumes?
No thanks!

Lockboxes in any MMO are always about “We take your money and you don’t get what you want.”

Champions online is the biggest offender with new themed lockboxes ever few months or so.

I wouldn’t mind so much if we were guaranteed something worthwhile, but usually its just a handful of booster and other consumables that aren’t worth the keys.

I have spent much more money on Armor, Wardrobe, and non RNG weapon skins than on the game itself, and I have NEVER spent money on their RNG ploys. I wish they would share with us what percentage of their income is from non RNG versus RNG items. Clearly they must be making much more on the fools that blow their coin on RNG, but is it really necessary to do it this way? If they got rid of all of it, and even lowered the prices, would not many more people spend some gems?

It’s not legitimately gambling cause “gambling” would mean that their is a chance to obtain nothing. Since you always receive something from a BLTC chest this questionable method of selling keys gets a free pass.

This obviously raise ethical questions because you’re buying a item for a chance to get something you may or may not want.

Better to take the easy route and save up gold for what you want and not waste your money.

You fell for the whale trap. Never buy rng items off the gemstore.

blakdoxa.7520:

It’s not legitimately gambling cause “gambling” would mean that their is a chance to obtain nothing. Since you always receive something from a BLTC chest this questionable method of selling keys gets a free pass.

This obviously raise ethical questions because you’re buying a item for a chance to get something you may or may not want.

Better to take the easy route and save up gold for what you want and not waste your money.

Actually, it is not legitimately gambling because gambling means there is a chance to obtain something. No matter what comes out of the chest, it is just a virtual batch of computer code and is worth nothing. If it had any kind of real world value to you, THEN it would be considered gambling.

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

I have spent much more money on Armor, Wardrobe, and non RNG weapon skins than on the game itself, and I have NEVER spent money on their RNG ploys. I wish they would share with us what percentage of their income is from non RNG versus RNG items. Clearly they must be making much more on the fools that blow their coin on RNG, but is it really necessary to do it this way? If they got rid of all of it, and even lowered the prices, would not many more people spend some gems?

I remember posts from people who have spent literally hundres of dollars back when the fused weapons were pure rng from chests and that kinda makes you realise how big their income from whales must be. Consumer unfriendly and insulting? Yes. Lucrative? Unfortunately also yes.

Raigai.4218:

I bought 800 gems for the purpose of attaining at least one of these new shadow weapon skins, however to my surprise I got only two scraps and some random stuff I have no use for. Here’s my honest question: Why is it that you can buy full outfits / cool looking armor in the gemstore for 700-800 gems (which is very reasonable), but you need to rely on RNG to attain the weapon skins? It’s gambling.

Yep, it’s gambling. It’s borderlining on being a dishonest scam. It also allows ArenaNet to make a lot of gold. So, despite all the moral objections, don’t expect it to go away any time soon.

It will be interesting to see the impact this will have in HoT. I expect the expansion will come with a couple extremely bland skins (see the makeshift weapons), the promised legendaries, and everything else will be available only through the Gem Store lottery.

If Anet took average price cost via looting BL chests and made it a single purchase, people would balk at a single weapon skin costing thousands of gems.

This current way, the skin appears rare rather than overpriced.

It only took me 2.5 years to collect 10 scraps and make 1 ticket. I don’t buy gems, only convert gold into gems, sometimes buy keys, but i mostly open bl chests when key drops by some miracle. So…yeah. 2.5 years. You can wait it out.

Unless you want a collection of Gem Shop samples, which is what the chests are sold as, don’t buy keys. It’s like buying boxes of Whitman Samplers because on the box says there’s a chance to win a car. You are not going to get a car buying box upon box of chocolates.

800 Gems will get you 7 keys. First, with only 7 keys there is no way you can get 10 scraps for a ticket. So that’s out. And with the odds of a full ticket down in the 2-2.5% range, the chance for one or more tickets from 7 keys is 13.2-16.2%, less than rolling a 6-sided die and getting 1.

There is a reason why weapon skins from tickets go for as much as they do on the TP. They are in demand and the supply is limited to players willing to spend a great deal of money and hope they are lucky.

Sorry you had to learn about this lesson the hard way. Currently 100g is 940 gems, or about 8.5g per $1 but it’s always fluctuating. That 800 gems you bought would be worth a bit more than 85g.

I wish they could see my face of disappointment lol

Unless you want a collection of Gem Shop samples, which is what the chests are sold as, don’t buy keys. It’s like buying boxes of Whitman Samplers because on the box says there’s a chance to win a car. You are not going to get a car buying box upon box of chocolates.

800 Gems will get you 7 keys. First, with only 7 keys there is no way you can get 10 scraps for a ticket. So that’s out. And with the odds of a full ticket down in the 2-2.5% range, the chance for one or more tickets from 7 keys is 13.2-16.2%, less than rolling a 6-sided die and getting 1.

There is a reason why weapon skins from tickets go for as much as they do on the TP. They are in demand and the supply is limited to players willing to spend a great deal of money and hope they are lucky.

Sorry you had to learn about this lesson the hard way. Currently 100g is 940 gems, or about 8.5g per $1 but it’s always fluctuating. That 800g you bought would be worth a bit more than 85g.

Well once upon a time keys were like scratch lottery tickets. Every once in a while, dropping a 5 spot is fun and who knows, you may make back that $5. But if you want one of those skins, it’s far cheaper, unless you are lucky, to buy gold with your cash bought gems to buy that skin you want. At they moment all of them are under 110 gold or under 1040 gems which is $13. 1040 gems will buy you 11 keys. That’s 75.7-80.1% chance of not getting 1 or more whole tickets and an infinitesimal chance of 10 ticket scrapes.

So sure thing Vs 1 in 4 or 5 chance? Choose wisely.

PS: And yes a player shouldn’t have to data mine and take a prob and stat class to know what’s the better choice here ANet.

Test.8734:

It’s borderlining on being a dishonest scam.

I lol’ed out loud.

Likely only affect games in Korea if passed.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2015/03/134_175008.html

Behellagh.1468:

But if you want one of those skins, it’s far cheaper, unless you are lucky, to buy gold with your cash bought gems to buy that skin you want.

The thing is, doing that rewards people who buy a lot of keys to get the weapons. And if people didn’t buy those keys as much, ArenaNet would have less incentive to keep this ridiculous lottery system.

Not buying keys or the skins is the best strategy to try to make ArenaNet change the Gem Store weapons skins system.

Behellagh.1468:

Likely only affect games in Korea if passed.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2015/03/134_175008.html

The USA needs that too.

A valid opinion, OP. I think the best thing is gem conversion in this case. If you really want this weapon skin: buy gems → convert to gold → buy from trading post. This kind of gamble is just not for everyone, it’s rather tedious and far from a guaranteed method of acquisition.

That is how cash shop MMO works and GW2 is no different. The reward is locked inside your wallet and that is it. You want rewards for your hard work then go play a real MMO.

It’s the fact that the drop rates are hidden that make them borderline immoral. Lottery tickets have the chances printed right there on the ticket. With black lion chests and the dye kits, no one knows what the drop rates are. The drop rates for the chests in wiki are self reported drops and can easily be influenced by those who only report their lucky drops. The dye packs don’t even have that much. It’s literally money for a blind chance.

Raigai.4218:

however to my surprise I got only two scraps

Sorry for your misfortune, but you really shouldn’t be surprised here.

Raigai.4218:

but you need to rely on RNG to attain the weapon skins

You don’t. You could of sold those 800 gems for 82g and just buy the skin you want off the TP. If everyone could spend 82g and get the skin they want, plus other goodies, the skins wouldn’t be nearly so valuable.

Raigai.4218:

Most people I know are not willing to gamble 20-30€ for a chance to get 1-2 weapon skin

There are plenty of people that are willing to buy these lottery tickets. That’s why Anet hasn’t changed the model. Some of the people even get mad that they didn’t win and come here to complain.

Personally, I think these sorts of lotteries (black lion keys) should be in games such as gw2, but not nearly as impactful. It should be much less common to participate in them, and much less advertised. I just prefer straight-forward trades to uncertainties.
That’s not to say I haven’t bought keys before :P I just value them differently than the gem store does, so I don’t buy them from there. I bought keys with captain’s commendations. I bought keys via key farming a few times. People have posted drop rates from keys. The value of a key they frequently conclude is somewhere around 3-5g per key.

The choice is monthly subscriptions or an endless stream of attractive items in your cash shop. It’s far easier to offer blind-boxes with the occasional really good thing inside.

Styxx.1564:

The price of skins on TP isn’t set by A.Net, but by players.

Lol…

there is a very distinct trend that all bl weapon sets follow invariably from first release until the next release. you prolly should look into that. also consider buying gold with those 800 gems. dont buy keys for 1 drop.

I would spend a lot more in the Gem store if it wasn’t such spectacularly bad value. I have money to spend, the problem is ANet isn’t selling much of any value.

Black Lion Chests are basically Anet way to cash in on stupidity.

There is nothing in these chests that is actually worth the price of the keys considering the average drop rates.

But since some people dont bother researching that and/or just like to gamble Anet gets to make some easy money without exploiting the majority of customers that is semi intelligent.

Basically: Fools pay the game for not so foolish people and get some fun with the lottery.

I call that a win for everybody.

Raigai, i recently just spent 2100 gems on 25 keys for the first time. i got 8 scraps and…. boosts. Which are useless when you have a hoard of 80’s geared in ascended. I’m equally disappointed. Spending 30 dollars should actually net me something. There should at least be some kind of warning on how much of a gamble this is. Next time, i will just convert to gold and buy weapons i want.

Anyway, i’d love a refund, but that’s a pipe dream. I feel for you!

Don’t forget the most evil of constructs, the scraps.

These are not a compensation or assurance you get a skin, at all. If they were they’d be a guarenteed drop. Oh no, they simply exist to get you to gamble more!

Afterall, if you buy 25 keys and get no tickets you will feel iffed and say “kitten it, i am done”.
But, if you bought 25 chests and got 8 scraps… aw man, so close right? Isn’t it kitten tempting to buy a few more keys? You might get that ticket, or the two missing scrap! If you stop now those 8 scraps are worthless!

BLchests are pretty sinister, designed purely to prey on poor impulse control and using scraps as a bait to get people to gamble even more when it hasn’t gotten them anything yet.

This type of thread shows up every time a new weapon skin is added only available with tickets via BLCs. The general consensus is you are best off to wait a while for the key farmers to do their thing and list the skins on the TP then buy them for gold. It’s not as quick as it used to be since key farming got nerfed but it is still the safest bet.

Arkinos.7245:

Black Lion Chests are basically Anet way to cash in on stupidity.

There is nothing in these chests that is actually worth the price of the keys considering the average drop rates.

I think they are relevant as a symbol.

They are probably the biggest thing in the game that are clearly bad for the players – they rely on players doing something for their own detriment.

And yet ArenaNet is perfectly happy in exploiting that.

It’s worth taking a very good look at, just so everyone realizes that ArenaNet is not above doing something bad for their players in order to get some profit.

Because supply and demand.

Only buy keys when they are on sale,you can buy the skins you want on TP for lot better value now.

Styxx.1564:

The price of skins on TP isn’t set by A.Net, but by players.

At the most basic level this is true. However, ANet controls the accessibility of various items which in turn determines their value, and subsequently the value of gold and gems in general.

Yes, but they aren’t saying it’s 100g. If nobody liked them they would be less expensive. Look at the Crimson Lion, Winterday or Mordrem skins, they are all cheaper than the Shadow skins.

There are two sides that drive price and ANet only sort of controls one because if nobody likes them, then few will cash in their tickets to buy one to sell later.

It’s the forum bug. She got this.