Guild Wars 2

Frankly, I don’t see why people always try to defend a company from player feedback. If players think there is something wrong with new content, or the price of new content, they have every right to make themselves heard.

It is, in fact, to ANet’s benefit to read and consider this feedback. Whether they act on it is another story altogether, but they certainly shouldn’t ignore it, nor should other players try to suppress it.

I also think the title of this thread is misleading, because it implies that all veteran players, or at least a lot of them, feel entitled to extras simply because they are veterans. In reality, the situation is quite the opposite. I think a lot of veteran players are unhappy simply because its the new players who are getting extras simply for being new players, while veterans get nothing to offset that obvious discrepancy.

All we want is balance. We want the price point and incentives of the HoT upgrade to be fair to both new and veteran players. Right now, it is glaringly in favor of new players, who get the base game for free in addition to the expansion, while veteran players only get the expansion on its own for the same price. If some people can’t see an issue with that, I’m afraid they are simply choosing to be ignorant rather than fair.

Just like it can be argued that veterans shouldn’t feel entitled to extras just because they are veterans, the same argument can be made that new players shouldn’t be entitled to extras just because they are new. If the scales are not balanced on both sides, then one side or the other is always going to end up feeling burned or neglected.

There’s feedback, and then there’s kitten-flipping. After the preorder announcement, it’s been mostly kitten-flipping, not an ounce of feedback.

Blackworm.2167:

Basandra Skye.4031:

Why ask when anet gave, is giving, and will continue to give info about what’s in the expac?

That would be nice, were it actually true. It isn’t.
Unless, of course, you think silence is golden.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/rethinking-guilds/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/building-your-guild-hall/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-halls-taken-from-the-enemy/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/welcome-to-guild-halls/

And that’s just information from yesterday. Makes you look foolish blindly posting, doesnt it?

So . . . we’re paying fifty dollars or more for guild halls, vanity items, and other nonsense? Even you don’t believe that. Can we please get some information about the actual content instead? You know, the stuff that we will be spending the majority of our time on?

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

Frankly, I don’t see why people always try to defend a company from player feedback. If players think there is something wrong with new content, or the price of new content, they have every right to make themselves heard.

It is, in fact, to ANet’s benefit to read and consider this feedback. Whether they act on it is another story altogether, but they certainly shouldn’t ignore it, nor should other players try to suppress it.

I also think the title of this thread is misleading, because it implies that all veteran players, or at least a lot of them, feel entitled to extras simply because they are veterans. In reality, the situation is quite the opposite. I think a lot of veteran players are unhappy simply because its the new players who are getting extras simply for being new players, while veterans get nothing to offset that obvious discrepancy.

All we want is balance. We want the price point and incentives of the HoT upgrade to be fair to both new and veteran players. Right now, it is glaringly in favor of new players, who get the base game for free in addition to the expansion, while veteran players only get the expansion on its own for the same price. If some people can’t see an issue with that, I’m afraid they are simply choosing to be ignorant rather than fair.

Just like it can be argued that veterans shouldn’t feel entitled to extras just because they are veterans, the same argument can be made that new players shouldn’t be entitled to extras just because they are new. If the scales are not balanced on both sides, then one side or the other is always going to end up feeling burned or neglected.

I personally have no problem with the HoT offer. I think the price is perfectly ok and I do not feel I am losing out on anything just because I already own the game. Its a free item that I already own, so I do not feel like I am missing out on something. However, you do make a very valid point, and I do agree the balance needs to be right and it needs to at least feel fair to most players.

I also agree that people should be allowed to express their opinions, both for and against the expansion bundle. People will defend Anet’s decision, but that doesn’t automatically mean they are telling people they are not entitled to complain. Some defenders of Anet’s decision are simply trying to show a different view point. They are just sharing their perspective, in the same way those who are unhappy are expressing their dissatisfaction. Each side should be allowed to express their views, so long as it is done in a constructive and civil way.

It is very clear that a lot of players are unhappy. And I am sure that Anet are reading everything on the forum and the subreddit, and I am sure they very carefully discussing things. It is going to take them time to decide if any action is needed, and what that action will be. So do not be surprised if they are silent about this for a while. If they feel they can and/or should do something about it, I am sure they will. So give your feedback, discuss your views (on both sides of the fence), but try to be nice about it and try not to belittle someone’s comment just because it goes against your own (we are all entitled to an opinion). Only Anet can decide which viewpoint is right, because they are the ones who need our money. We might want the game, but we don’t need it to survive (well, some might ).

Ardenwolfe.8590:

So . . . we’re paying fifty dollars or more for guild halls, vanity items, and other nonsense? Even you don’t believe that. Can we please get some information about the actual content instead? You know, the stuff that we will be spending the majority of our time on?

To quote some of my high school teachers; “If you want to know more, sit down, shut up, start listening.” They’ve been giving us information. That is a fact you can not refute. They’re going to give us MORE info in the future. That is a fact you can not refute. What more do you people want? Everything yesterday? Congratulations on showing how self-entitled you guys are.

Frankly I dont know why I bother with these threads, other than to prove to myself every once in a while why I have little faith or empathy for society. They’re basically a self-perpetuating kittenfest and circle of misery.

I agree with this post and am disappointed in the backlash.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

So . . . we’re paying fifty dollars or more for guild halls, vanity items, and other nonsense? Even you don’t believe that. Can we please get some information about the actual content instead? You know, the stuff that we will be spending the majority of our time on?

You might call it other nonsense, but to me it is a lot more than that. Here is a list of some of the things we know we are getting:

1) A new WvW borderlands map and some accompanying mechanic changed and new siege equipment. This could very well change the face of WvW and make it much better. But we will not know that until we try it.
2) A new PvP game mode with Stronghold (which I have tried and feel I will enjoy just as much as conquest).
3) New ways to explore PvE zones via the mastery system. Currently we know about gliding and mushrooms. We also know that lore masteries will grant us ways to explore the map and conquest challenges that block our path.
4) New ways to create legendaries via the mastery system, which will also bring with it new legendaries.
5) Guild Halls that will provide a variety of interesting options and activities, as well as some really nice QoL changes. This has the potential to offer a lot of content to consume and repeat. Also: Customizable guild arenas!!!! That feature alone I would pay $50 for.
6) A new profession: the Revenant. The revenant will feel different to play and will bring with it many skills and playstyles with which to enjoy the different game modes.
7) Elite specializations for each profession, bringing further build options and a new weapon to each profession. This will change the meta big time and drastically refresh the combat system.
8) Large three tiered zones, providing dense activities withing a large vertical playground. While we do not know how many maps we will be getting, we know they will be slightly larger than a normal map, with each having 3 vertical tiers. This will effectively make each map more than 3 times the size of a normal map. Not only that, but each map will have its own overall themed dynamic event cycle and many repeatable adventures.
9) A continuation of the Guild Wars 2 story, which may well culminate in the defeat of Mordremoth. How big this story will be, we will not know until we play it. Anet is not going to give any spoilers in this regard. But judging by all the little lore tidbits they have been dropping here and there, it seems like they have gone into some pretty hefty depth on this.
10) New mini games. While we do not know what these are, or how many there will be, we do know they are adding new ones.

Furthermore, along with the above, we can safely assume the following will also be added:

1) New weapon and armour skins to collect. We know that each elite spec will provide some new skills as you progress through them.
2) New achievements to aquire, in all game modes.
3) There will likely be new jumping puzzles, and possibly gliding and mushroom puzzles.
4) I expect there to be a lot of extra side events and adventures to take part in.
5) There will likely be new PvP reward tracks relating to HoT.
6) With the new borderland and new mechanics and siege equipment, there will likely be new WXP progression paths.

But that is not all. HoT is not just a bundle with some content in it. It is designed to be a platform with which Anet can add new content to the game. It is the building block of Anet’s vision of the future of GW2. With the above, we will likely see the following future (both free and charged) content:

1) New masteries, and possibly new maps to progress through with them.
2) New elite specializations for each profession.
3) We will likely get new maps for Stronghold, which may provide new mechanics much like the conquest maps do.
3) We will likely get new functional and decorative items to acquire for our guild halls.
4) With the introduction of precursor crafting, we may well see more legendaries added.
5) I fully expect the living story model to continue in between expansions.
6) We will likely see more adventures added to various maps, including core GW2 maps.
7) New glider skins, and maybe even see access to glider use in core GW2 zones.

Now if all of this doesn’t sound like it is worth $50 to you, then do not spend your money. And if you are expecting intricate details of every nook and cranny of the expansion, then you are living with false hope, because that is never going to happen.

For me, it looks like it is more than worth the price tag and I was happy to hand over my cash. I am not trying to convince you either way here, I just wanted to highlight some of the things we know and some of the things we can safely assume. And I wanted people to see it is a bit more than just some other nonsense.

Its only a matter of time before people start preordering computers, cars, houses etc without knowing whats in them. I should studied business. For some reason in healthcare they dont let me charge before diagnosis/treatment.

People already preorder cars, computer parts, and houses based on what they think will be in them and proffered preliminary specs.

I know. I also know those preliminary specs are actually quite detailed.

See- steam box’s/ floor plans/etcetc

DonQuack.9025:

Its only a matter of time before people start preordering computers, cars, houses etc without knowing whats in them. I should studied business. For some reason in healthcare they dont let me charge before diagnosis/treatment.

You obviously haven’t been paying attention. This kind of thing has been going on for a while. People DO pre-order computers, cars and houses before seeing them, or after only reading a summary of their capabilities. And some private healthcare schemes do charge you before being treated, by charging you monthly fees.

Youre slow.

Just got to thinking about what’s been going on in forums compared to other games I’ve played that truly deserved the hate in forums. The veterans of those games aren’t entitled. They were bitter. They knew there was pretty much no hope of being heard, and just trudged along with their posting. They loved the game and it’s where their friends were.

Then there is GW2. All companies make mistakes. Despite what some people think, a corporation is comprised of human beings. Right now they’re being called out on it, and it does seem a bit out of hand. However, in the taste of online gaming I’ve had no company has done better than these guys at listening to and doing right by their customers.

Lots of people speak up here not only because they care about the game, but also because they have hope of being heard. Few things are as depressing as customers telling a game master (PR figure head and piñata) “Yeah, thanks for the response. We know you gotta say this bull and nothing’s actually gonna change, but thanks anyhow.” Going through a bit of a storm now, but hope sure is a nice change.

Kury.8210:

Just got to thinking about what’s been going on in forums compared to other games I’ve played that truly deserved the hate in forums. The veterans of those games aren’t entitled. They were bitter. They knew there was pretty much no hope of being heard, and just trudged along with their posting. They loved the game and it’s where their friends were.

Then there is GW2. All companies make mistakes. Despite what some people think, a corporation is comprised of human beings. Right now they’re being called out on it, and it does seem a bit out of hand. However, in the taste of online gaming I’ve had no company has done better than these guys at listening to and doing right by their customers.

Lots of people speak up here not only because they care about the game, but also because they have hope of being heard. Few things are as depressing as customers telling a game master (PR figure head and piñata) “Yeah, thanks for the response. We know you gotta say this bull and nothing’s actually gonna change, but thanks anyhow.” Going through a bit of a storm now, but hope sure is a nice change.

As a primarly dungeoneer. I weep at your wise words.

I dont really care about the price. I dont really care about the char slot (revenant meta? doubt it), I dont care about the open world. I dont care about guild halls. I care about this “challenging content” and the silence around the words “fractals and dungeons”.

I have almost literally been told by arenanet to go to hell. I have played the same 8 dungeons for the past x years I cant remember. I love the bloody game. But kitten me. They consistently treat me like a redheaded stepchild.

One dungeon. Literally I am so desperate I would preorder right bloody now if they said we have one new dungeon.

I imagine thats sorta how the pvpers feel with their 1 new map. iirc

If they arent going to put new dungeons in tell me now so I can uninstall now. Dont stretch this kitten out. Dont sucker impulse buyers who have the same hopes as me. Just tell me now so I can find another mmo to dedicate myself to that will actually have content I enjoy.

This is worse than STO and I swear they probably released more content faster.

What do exclusive pvp plyers get for 50€ ?
1 exta trait line… no tks!

And now Entitlement is the new Toxicity.

Ascended Armour Gaining Swappable Stats! for one means only one set of Ascended is needed Ever , way less grindy than current im glad i was just about to craft my second set of ascended when they announced this now i;ve got lots of gold held up in items, which i;ll be saving for HoT stuff.

It was never my intention to have created such a polarizing topic that would garner this much attention, it was a point I felt should be made, even though I really should have know better.

This topic has brought more attention to myself then I am comfortable with, and It is sad that many of you feel the need to add me to your friend list in game so you can send me private messages with personal insults and threats as soon as I log in, insults that have nothing to do with and make no mention of this topic at hand.

Please stop harassing me in game, that kind of behavior is totally unnecessary.

I really can’t stand the people saying “oh but Anet have released virtually no information on this expac.” And yes, I’ve seen people post exactly these words on reddit or elsewhere. That is just complete BS people. They have released a decent amount of info. They’ve had countless blogs and streams the past few weeks and will continue releasing blogs and doing live streams. Just because they haven’t revealed ALL of the information does not mean they have revealed NO information. For some of us, the information is enough to decide to make the purchase.

And if they still haven’t talked about what is most important to you….so what? Bloody wait to buy HoT then. No one is holding a gun to your head demanding you buy the game now.

Wow for reals?

Also xaralli.

Decent amount of info?
Our standards are different.

Lets look at when GW2 was announced for prepurchase.

Compare what we knew when gw2 prepurchase was announced versus what we know right now about the expansion.

DonQuack.9025:

Wow for reals?

Sadly, yes. 4 different people have pmd me, and a couple of them must have been waiting on the trigger finger because the pm was on my screen even before my zone screen was finished loading.

I guess I have to stop my daily login ritual of promoting followers to friends, and treat followers as potential stalkers.

Greymelken.1892:

We paid once, three years ago. We pay for the expansion now, it costs $50, which is a common enough price point.

Do new players get a better deal? Sort of. They dont have to pay for the expansion, it comes free with the core game.

If I am going to be a new player in your game that has been out for 3 years, you had better be prepared to make it worth my time, because the idea of being dropped into a game surrounded by people who have been here for three years, trampling me underfoot, berating me for all my ‘noob’ questions, looking cooler than me, being more powerful then me isnt really going to bring me to the door.

Yes, new players get an amazing deal. And I want them to. Again, the issue is that for those that purchased core outside of the current refund time ANet allows because they saw “requires base game” and decided to get the game and start up so they weren’t level 1 at expansion launch (as you allude to in your second point) and earlier supporters, especially those that pre-purchased the core, now have nothing for that “free core with expansion” because they don’t get a separate key for expansion and core, just one key that contains both. While ANet spins this (dear god I’m a Political Science major and hate this term, but it fits so well. kitten you 24 hour news networks!) as good for new players (and I whole-heartedly agree, let’s see more players so we have 20 instances of each map going, 200 for world boss train maps, users for days!!!!!) you are left with others that have paid $10-$60 and they get absolutely no benefit. I know ANet doesn’t have to do anything more than repeat that it’s a bonus for new players. However, from a true business perspective, it really infuriates customers that helped keep you running up until this new deal arrived. The place where I work has a similar deal, you get a new membership, you get extra coupons as a thank you. You renew your existing membership, you’re out those coupons. Most people are okay with that, usually they forget that they ever got those bonus coupons the first time around. But there are those that do ask about getting the coupons again since they are paying the fee again. Sadly, they don’t (thanks for making the interaction more hostile now, corporate) and typically then they get upset and don’t renew their membership. As it stands, apparently corporate is okay with that. It does leave those manning the stations in the crosshairs for hostility that shouldn’t be aimed at them, but they are the ones saying “sorry, you can’t have it,” which is why i try to remain neutral towards any staff here, I know the decision comes from higher up, and I know at least where I work, they don’t really listen to anyone below a region manager unless things REALLY aren’t working.

A simple solution to avoid the problem is to be proactive about it and think about what a choice such as a free core copy for new players or coupons for first time members means to those that have given you money already and enjoy what you provide for them. I would fork over $50 now if the concession of a character slot or gems to the equivalent of buying a character slot were provided. I like the game, and I want to support it. I also am interested in the new content. However, seeing the deal the new players get leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If I could, I’d give those renewing members the new member coupons again to keep them happy, because member retention looks good and typically is good for business. Maybe I just like to avoid conflict? Anyways, it just seems like if you want the maximum number of installs due to the Gem Store potential, giving something like a character slot or a discount equivalent to that, or gems equivalent to that, seem like a reasonable compromise to appease those that want the expansion but are a bit miffed due to the “free core with expansion” deal that is wasted. Or give a separate key for us to build mules or give to a friend that may be “Hey, I got a free copy, and what my friend showed me in the expansion looked cool, I want to be able to do that too!” and convert another $50 sale seems like a plus.

Those that are whining solely about price, those are the ones to ignore. I’m sure you’d agree to that.

I suppose if we don’t quite agree about things at this point, we probably won’t. That’s fine, I have my views, you have yours. If you went ahead and pre-purchased, give my regards to the new bosses (assuming they stick to the current purchase options). And by that, I mean kill them with a Silly Scimitar. I’ll join in when/if the price drops to reflect the value of a character slot.

Again, no one is bloody putting a gun to your head to buy the game NOW. There is no rush. None whatsoever. There isn’t even a release date out. You’re going to have to just be patient.

Quite frankly it sounds like you need to step away from the game entirely. For a while at least, if you haven’t already.

you for some reason think we dont know that?
and you sound like an kitten. Ill step away when im ready.

Cant wait to level up.

Then why the freak out and complaining about the prepurchase by people? The constant “but I don’t want to buy it yet, there’s no info!” That’s a ridiculous thing to say. Just wait until there is info.

And now you resort to ad hominem attacks. Nice.

Because
1. PREPURCHASING IS BAD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf5Uj4XIT1Y

2. Its a forum. I can type if I want to
Nobody knows where my Hrouda has gone
Dungeons left the same time
Why was he holding her hand
When theyre supposed to be mine?

It’s my forum, and I’ll cry if I want to
Cry if I want to, cry if I want to
You would cry too if it happened to you

its not an ad-hominem attack. Its a pretty blatant fully personal attack in response to youre telling me to to stop playing the game.

I told you to take a break. Because you sound frustrated and very burned out. That’s why I said “for a while” not permanently. That was not even remotely an attack on you. I do apologize if you misunderstood. I wasn’t telling you to go away forever, just to step away from it for a bit.

Some people don’t buy anything on the cash shop. Obviously these people are pretty happy to “only” pay 50$ now.

For veterans like me who have actually supported the game by buying hundreds of dollars worth of gems during those last 3 years (so basically the people Anet should be trying to keep), it is pretty disheartening to see how they just seem to not care about us.

As long as we are comparing GW2 to other mmo offerings, I think we can agree that a big difference between this and other games is that no content in GW2 is ever trivialized by updates or over-leveling, so even starter zones can be relevant. Anyone who has thought about crafting ascended gear knows that the game isnt just about lvl 80 zones. Because of this there Has to be an incentive to new players to join or else there is the potential that a player would not want to join because they missed the train on its first pass and now everyone has the window seats.

This is why I dont play Eve. I love spaceships, and sci-fi, and the idea of a complete fre-for-all sociopathic community of piracy, but if I were to play now with my account that has little more then a year worth of ‘training’ I would be one of the little people forever.

Comparing it to WoW, they love to trivialize their content. Anyone playing on a PvP server knows that they cant level in the open world without the real threart of someone droping out of the sky on their level 100 and one shotting them before they are even noticed. Even on a pve server a level 100 can just drop in and wipe out a whole screen of npc’s with their smallest aoe and disrupt you from collecting 10 bear hides, or whatever.

Gw2 is a great game that doesent have these problems fully, but there is still the sense that a new player would be far behind a three year veteran, and it is very true. Imagine playing an entirely new account and the things that you couldnt do if you were forced to start at square one. You would want that old account back, and all the fancy skins and high level characters to farm with, to say nothing about how much more knowedgeable of the game a veteran is.

I feel like I got more of my money’s worth playing Gw2 several times over what I got investing money in any other game, and the irony is this is the cheapest MMO I have ever played. $60 for 3 years of fun! it really is unbelievable that this is possible.

WoW – 3 years $700
Final Fantasy XI – 2 years $480
SWtoR – 2 years $480

GW1 – 4 years $60
Gw2 – 3+ years $60

and for $60 GW2 has exponentially more replay value and sustainability then all the other MMO’s I have played combined! This is why entitlement doesent settle well with me. GW2 is so cheap for the content it offers.

Greymelken.1892:

GW2 is so cheap for the content it offers.

It’s cheap because you are cheap and don’t buy anything. And you’re only thinking from your cheap player perspective . Do you know why you had the right to play for free and got content for free? Because somebody else paid for you.

IMO, you don’t have any right to criticize anybody who actually supported the game by buying gems from ArenaNet.

Zanshin.5379:

Some people don’t buy anything on the cash shop. Obviously these people are pretty happy to “only” pay 50$ now.

For veterans like me who have actually supported the game by buying hundreds of dollars worth of gems during those last 3 years (so basically the people Anet should be trying to keep), it is pretty disheartening to see how they just seem to not care about us.

Just as ‘disheartened’ as you are of this, as are we for players showing such attitude. When people complain about $50 one time price to play for 3 years after I have paid much much more then that for silly cosmetics and the like enabling people to opt into only paying $50 to play forever, by being a part of the population that pays for the game’s continued developement; it is a bit disheartening.

Dont get me wrong, I dont buy gems to reward Anet, they have to give me a reason to buy them beyond my appreciation… but I will admit that my appreciation does make it easier to recite my cc number.

Zanshin.5379:

Greymelken.1892:

GW2 is so cheap for the content it offers.

It’s cheap because you are cheap and don’t buy anything. And you’re only thinking from your cheap player perspective . Do you know why you had the right to play for free and got content for free? Because somebody else paid for you.

IMO, you don’t have any right to criticize anybody who actually supported the game by buying gems from ArenaNet.

Perhaps you misread, or I wasnt succinct enough. I mean to say that $50 was all anyone had to pay. My pricing was based on what was absolutely necessary to pay. I’m not going to invite a contest, but the idea that I am a cheap player speaking from a cheapskate’s perspective is pretty hillarious.

Zanshin.5379:

Greymelken.1892:

GW2 is so cheap for the content it offers.

It’s cheap because you are cheap and don’t buy anything. And you’re only thinking from your perspective of a cheap player. Do you know why you had the right to play for free and got content for free? Because somebody else paid for you.

I paid $150 for the CE when it was first announced. I’ve since bought countless things in the gem shop. I still don’t agree with the complaining that we veterans are somehow “owed” something. In fact, I went and bought the Ultimate edition as soon as Colin announced it. And the first thing I thought about when I read about the bundle was that it was a great idea for newbies and would help bring in new blood for the game. So even perspectives from players who have paid more into the game can be different.

Greymelken.1892:

As long as we are comparing GW2 to other mmo offerings, I think we can agree that a big difference between this and other games is that no content in GW2 is ever trivialized by updates or over-leveling, so even starter zones can be relevant. Anyone who has thought about crafting ascended gear knows that the game isnt just about lvl 80 zones. Because of this there Has to be an incentive to new players to join or else there is the potential that a player would not want to join because they missed the train on its first pass and now everyone has the window seats.

This is why I dont play Eve. I love spaceships, and sci-fi, and the idea of a complete fre-for-all sociopathic community of piracy, but if I were to play now with my account that has little more then a year worth of ‘training’ I would be one of the little people forever.

Comparing it to WoW, they love to trivialize their content. Anyone playing on a PvP server knows that they cant level in the open world without the real threart of someone droping out of the sky on their level 100 and one shotting them before they are even noticed. Even on a pve server a level 100 can just drop in and wipe out a whole screen of npc’s with their smallest aoe and disrupt you from collecting 10 bear hides, or whatever.

Gw2 is a great game that doesent have these problems fully, but there is still the sense that a new player would be far behind a three year veteran, and it is very true. Imagine playing an entirely new account and the things that you couldnt do if you were forced to start at square one. You would want that old account back, and all the fancy skins and high level characters to farm with, to say nothing about how much more knowedgeable of the game a veteran is.

I feel like I got more of my money’s worth playing Gw2 several times over what I got investing money in any other game, and the irony is this is the cheapest MMO I have ever played. $60 for 3 years of fun! it really is unbelievable that this is possible.

WoW – 3 years $700
Final Fantasy XI – 2 years $480
SWtoR – 2 years $480
Star Trek Onine – 3 years $2000.

GW1 – 4 years $60
Gw2 – 3+ years $60

and for $60 GW2 has exponentially more replay value and sustainability then all the other MMO’s I have played combined! This is why entitlement doesent settle well with me. GW2 is so cheap for the content it offers.

why did you spend so much on star trek and nothing at all on gw2?

anyhow i dont bring up the sub cost, because sub versus non sub is basically the difference between a party with free drinks and a party without.

GW2 is subscription free, but the game economy is built and maintained to keep the gem/gold conversion viable.

this is the price of drinks at the gw2 party
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store/historical

you buy a subscription game, and you get virtually all content via playing the game the subscription cost covers the drinks, and depending how much your drink, its worth its value, or not.

now, its not black and white, you get a lot free in gw2, and some sub games sell things in stores, but point is there is always a price for any business model. They didnt give us the game for nothing they let us pay to enter so they can advertise and sell virtual goods from the gem shop.

phys.7689:

why did you spend so much on star trek and nothing at all on gw2?

I can see how that was misleading, I submitted my unnecessary expenses on STO while only submitting subscription and liscencing fees for the other games.

Consequentally I spent that much on STO because I lead a ‘guild’ and happily took a lot of the burden of our success on myself. the essential cost of STO was acually $0.

Had I included the cash shop items from SWtoR it would have easily doubled, I even bought things I didnt need for WoW. Im not sure I have ever paid as much for Gw2 as I did for STO, (tey are crafty enough to not keep a ledger that I can review) but I certainly dont want for anything I can have from the cash shop.

I appreciate that you read my post so thouroughly though.

Zanshin.5379:

Greymelken.1892:

GW2 is so cheap for the content it offers.

It’s cheap because you are cheap and don’t buy anything. And you’re only thinking from your cheap player perspective . Do you know why you had the right to play for free and got content for free? Because somebody else paid for you.

IMO, you don’t have any right to criticize anybody who actually supported the game by buying gems from ArenaNet.

I have spent a little over a thousand dollars for my (nearly) three years of play. It is pretty cheap compared to many (most?) other forms of entertainment that I have enjoyed.

Ashen.2907:

Zanshin.5379:

Greymelken.1892:

GW2 is so cheap for the content it offers.

It’s cheap because you are cheap and don’t buy anything. And you’re only thinking from your cheap player perspective . Do you know why you had the right to play for free and got content for free? Because somebody else paid for you.

IMO, you don’t have any right to criticize anybody who actually supported the game by buying gems from ArenaNet.

I have spent a little over a thousand dollars for my (nearly) three years of play. It is pretty cheap compared to many (most?) other forms of entertainment that I have enjoyed.

If I spent $50 a month on this game (ohwaitIdo) it would be cheaper then any one of the things I drink, or smoke, or otherwise ‘consume’ in my unending quest for satisfation.

The only thing I know for sure is that Anet did a poor job in their marketing efforts on this pre-release fiasco.

First off, Bansandra, that was extremely rude. Second, fine. Tell us ‘entitled’ customers how many maps there will be and what content is coming since they want us to pre-purchase for that price. Third, if your faith in humanity is based on the commentary from a gaming forum, I suggest you follow your teacher’s advice instead.

There was no need for that level of ugly. We’re asking to know what we’re being asked to buy for that cost. Not for anyone’s first born baby.

Simmer down.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

First off, Bansandra, you’re extremely rude. Second, fine. Tell us ‘entitled’ customers how many maps there will be and what content is coming since they want us to pre-purchase for that price. Third, if your faith in humanity is based on the comments on a gaming forum, I suggest you follow your teacher’s advice instead.

There was no need for that level of ugly. We’re asking to know what we’re being asked to buy for that cost. Not for your first born baby.

Simmer down.

You’ll get information, be patient. They haven’t even announced a release date yet. The information available now may not be enough to deem the purchase of HoT worthwhile but many of us have been waiting for the prepurchase and bought it as soon as it was available.

Greymelken.1892:

DonQuack.9025:

Wow for reals?

Sadly, yes. 4 different people have pmd me, and a couple of them must have been waiting on the trigger finger because the pm was on my screen even before my zone screen was finished loading.

I guess I have to stop my daily login ritual of promoting followers to friends, and treat followers as potential stalkers.

Block em, report em, move on. If they’re that kitten over being called entitled, well, yes, yes they are. And if they’re bad enough, the GMs will ensure it’s impacting more than just their game account.

DieselFueled.3257:

You’ll get information, be patient. They haven’t even announced a release date yet. The information available now may not be enough to deem the purchase of HoT worthwhile but many of us have been waiting for the prepurchase and bought it as soon as it was available.

I agree. That’s why I’m still in the wait and see camp. That’s not ‘entitled’ or words to that effect. It’s asking to know what our fifty dollars or more is going to buy us. That’s not asking for too much. That’s asking for basic information.

And it’s also par for the course from other MMO companies. This whole situation is just bizarre.

Edit: I see she removed her comment.

Rin.1046:

1) A new WvW borderlands map and some accompanying mechanic changed and new siege equipment. This could very well change the face of WvW and make it much better. But we will not know that until we try it.

Bad move if only HoT players can go there. But then, I don’t do WvW, so why do I care.

2) A new PvP game mode with Stronghold (which I have tried and feel I will enjoy just as much as conquest).

If not getting HoT means I won’t get that map, I ’m all for not getting HoT.

3) New ways to explore PvE zones via the mastery system. Currently we know about gliding and mushrooms. We also know that lore masteries will grant us ways to explore the map and conquest challenges that block our path.

You won’t miss those masteries if you don’t have the new maps.

4) New ways to create legendaries via the mastery system, which will also bring with it new legendaries.

I will have to play another 2 years anyway before I have the required materials again to even think about legendary crafting again

5) Guild Halls that will provide a variety of interesting options and activities, as well as some really nice QoL changes. This has the potential to offer a lot of content to consume and repeat. Also: Customizable guild arenas!!!! That feature alone I would pay $50 for.

I see it as a convenience which I’ve done without for 3 years already, I think I can do without for another 3 years

6) A new profession: the Revenant. The revenant will feel different to play and will bring with it many skills and playstyles with which to enjoy the different game modes.

which you can’t even create when you buy HoT. You have to pay extra.

7) Elite specializations for each profession, bringing further build options and a new weapon to each profession. This will change the meta big time and drastically refresh the combat system.

I read about that specialization for the ranger, I wdidn’t like it, which means I don’t need it.

8) Large three tiered zones, providing dense activities withing a large vertical playground. While we do not know how many maps we will be getting, we know they will be slightly larger than a normal map, with each having 3 vertical tiers. This will effectively make each map more than 3 times the size of a normal map. Not only that, but each map will have its own overall themed dynamic event cycle and many repeatable adventures.

Another reason to not pre-order: we don’t even know what we’ll be getting for a full priced game, only that it won’t be a full game (for those that already own the core game)

9) A continuation of the Guild Wars 2 story, which may well culminate in the defeat of Mordremoth. How big this story will be, we will not know until we play it. Anet is not going to give any spoilers in this regard. But judging by all the little lore tidbits they have been dropping here and there, it seems like they have gone into some pretty hefty depth on this.

The only valid reason so far to buy the game, but the price is too steep for me for that alone.

10) New mini games. While we do not know what these are, or how many there will be, we do know they are adding new ones.

see point 8. And keep in mind that they promised us a lot 4 years ago which we still don’t have.

For me, it looks like it is more than worth the price tag and I was happy to hand over my cash. I am not trying to convince you either way here, I just wanted to highlight some of the things we know and some of the things we can safely assume. And I wanted people to see it is a bit more than just some other nonsense.

for me, and I think many with me, it isn’t. We’re essentially paying for promises (keep in mind that a lot of the changes for HoT, especially regarding traits, skills andmasteries, are in the core, which everybody will be getting) and most people know the reputation of Anet about keeping promises.

The main reason why I think this price tag is unfair is because of point 6. I have to pay extra if I want to try everything HoT has to offer.

Julie Yann.5379:

The core game had enough content to entertain you for thousands of hours. What we know of HoT is it not even close to having that amount of content (not even 30%) yet we are expected to pay 83% of the price of the original game.

Even though initially we only get 30% of stuff that was included in core game, all future additions to the game will require HoT to play. The fact that you cant buy the core game anymore basically proves that point.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

So . . . we’re paying fifty dollars or more for guild halls, vanity items, and other nonsense? Even you don’t believe that. Can we please get some information about the actual content instead? You know, the stuff that we will be spending the majority of our time on?

You will get the information. It’s not like you won’t. That the beauty of a preorder. You don’t have to order it now, it makes no difference. The information will come.

Greymelken.1892:

It was never my intention to have created such a polarizing topic that would garner this much attention, it was a point I felt should be made, even though I really should have know better.

This topic has brought more attention to myself then I am comfortable with, and It is sad that many of you feel the need to add me to your friend list in game so you can send me private messages with personal insults and threats as soon as I log in, insults that have nothing to do with and make no mention of this topic at hand.

Please stop harassing me in game, that kind of behavior is totally unnecessary.

Report, block and hope they are removed. That type of behavior is way past a disagreement veering into obsession to be right.

Zanshin.5379:

Some people don’t buy anything on the cash shop. Obviously these people are pretty happy to “only” pay 50$ now.

For veterans like me who have actually supported the game by buying hundreds of dollars worth of gems during those last 3 years (so basically the people Anet should be trying to keep), it is pretty disheartening to see how they just seem to not care about us.

a 350+ development staff has kept the game updated with new features and content completely for free for 3 years. You don’t see the disconnect in what you are saying?

Add to the fact, that unlike other MMOs, you don’t have to buy HoT. You really, really, really don’t. Just like GW1 they are not baiting you into doing it. You won’t be kitten by a level cap increase or more powerful gear.

You can even take advantage of many of the gameplay systems and features that was developed for HoT, which benefits all players – base and expansion players, because they can’t segregate the community.
You can use things like the new spvp game mode, the new wvw map, the specialization rebalancing and the feature set of the guild halls and so on.

If you don’t buy the expansion for FFXIV or WoW or SWTOR, you are screwed. you will be left behind with the level cap increase and added weapons. Many of my friends didn’t buy all the campaigns for GW1 because they didnt see the point. They had the core experience and didn’t see the value in the other campaigns. They weren’t baited into buying it. That is awesome compared to what most MMO developers are doing.

Zanshin.5379:

Some people don’t buy anything on the cash shop. Obviously these people are pretty happy to “only” pay 50$ now.

For veterans like me who have actually supported the game by buying hundreds of dollars worth of gems during those last 3 years (so basically the people Anet should be trying to keep), it is pretty disheartening to see how they just seem to not care about us.

I have been playing GW2 since beta, and I have likely spent somewhere in the region of £500-1000 on gems in that time, maybe more. I do not feel hard done by, by not getting the free core game. I do not feel Anet owes me more because I have enjoyed my purchases. I don’t feel like new players are getting something I won’t have. And I am very happy to pay for the expansion.

You might not think it is worth it and that is fine, but being a player that has spent a lot on gems does not mean everyone thinks the same as you, and doesn’t add any weight to arguement that you deserve more. If you have enjoyed the things you bought then it was money well spent and you are owed nothing extra. And if you didn’t enjoy the things you bought, well that’s unfortunate but it doesn’t automatically mean you deserve compensation. You still got something for your money.

I think a lot of the anger expressed by many on this subject, much like many displays of frustration, is likely based on some other subject they are still sore about. Some might be raging because they don’t like their main’s elite spec, some might say the price is too high because there will not be any new dungeons. People are annoyed at a variety of different things that Anet is not budging on, so now there is this topic that everyone can get behind and rage about.

I am not saying people’s opinions are invalid, I’m just saying that many that are raging, may have other frustrations influencing their comments. Anyone who has been with someone for a long time will know that what they complain about might not necessarily be the the source of the anger, and there is often another underlying issue causing them to be less tolerant or irritable.

@LadyRhonwyn – I am not going to comment on all your points, I will simply say this: The expansion is clearly not for you. If there is little you like the sounds of, then its probably not worth paying for. But just because YOU don’t like most of the content, that doesn’t mean there is not a lot of content. Its just that you don’t like it. They cannot please everyone.

Yes, some of those things will be in the core game, but there will still be plenty that will only be available to HoT owners. And I am sure I am not alone in thinking it is worth the price.

@ OP
Entitlement based on assigned value to play? That is a novel notion. How about I play your game? GW 2 is an international game. It’s reach is not restricted to just NA and western EU but rather extends far beyond. The above mentioned demographic may or may not even be the majority of the player base.
That said please consider that in parts of the world where this game is sold and played you can buy a 2L bottle of Coke for 4 cents I find the logic behind your argument trying to infantalise these so caled “entitled” veteran players quite absurd.
The fact that these players having played GW1 trusted enough in ANET and its bussiness practices to pony over crazy amounts of cash ( taking into account conversion rates), I find it odd for members of the community such as you, a community these very people are a part of, to just belittle their concerns over the lack of value for the HoT bundle and their ire at not even getting a free copy of the game which is mentioned when buying the bundle to be ridiculous and boderline close minded.

My only problem is the value they add to new players compared to veterans. Any business has to grow, but to do so you tread a fine line between appeasing old customers and getting new ones. I think Anet have stepped on that line for the first time in the 10 years I’ve been their customer.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

Zanshin.5379:

Some people don’t buy anything on the cash shop. Obviously these people are pretty happy to “only” pay 50$ now.

For veterans like me who have actually supported the game by buying hundreds of dollars worth of gems during those last 3 years (so basically the people Anet should be trying to keep), it is pretty disheartening to see how they just seem to not care about us.

a 350+ development staff has kept the game updated with new features and content completely for free for 3 years. You don’t see the disconnect in what you are saying?

That wasn’t for free. All of that was covered by the initial purchase. That was the deal they themselves put on the table. It has no bearing at all on future purchases like expansions. Those must be able to stand on their own. That’s a consequence of how they decided to run their business, and there is no ground at all to fault people for rationally looking at the expansion purchase instead of emotionally.

If they want more money out of me, they need to offer me something that looks like it’s worth the price of admittance. So far, I’m not convinced. I don’t care about most of what’s been revealed so far. I’m holding off final judgement until I see a final run-down of what’s on offer.