Guild Wars 2

Heezdedjim.8902:

he damage to customer relations caused by nerfing a cash shop item to take away a specific selling point poses a lot more danger than whatever “precedent” people think it sets.

Actually it is not advertised as giving you sprockets so it is not a selling point, read the item description I am positive it does not say anything.

Simple fix is if they apologise, remove item and return the gems to the few players who purchased it. I doubt any feeling of trust would be lost, if anything it would be gained for doing the right thing.

If this is accepted by the community – this leaves it open for Anet to add additional bonuses to future gathering tools, which in turn renders the Molten/Bone Pick, Consortium/Jack-in-the-box Sickle, and Chop-It-All/Dreamcleaver Axe far more insignificant since the newer tools will be bought for their bonus & not the convenience like their original implementation intent.

Far-Out Example:
-1st its Sprockets on a Mining Pick.
-Next its Passion Flowers on Sickles (Or whatever crafting material that fits harvesting.)
-Then its Hidden Treasures on Axes (Or whatever crafting material that fits logging.)

This kind of item allows Anet to “bend the rules” further & further each time they put out a gather tool with a bonus (But what is to stop them from just doing gathering tools). If you bend something so far, it will break; and in worst case, it could break the game to a “P2W” feel.

Basically – I do not like the possibilities this gathering tool could lead the game to, and hope Anet chooses wisely on future implementation of convenience items.

Shakkara.2641:

XacTactX summarized it as follows:

These are the main reasons why people dislike the new pick:

1. P2W giving out free crafting materials, this is more than the 0c cost per gather on infinite tools.
2. Gear treadmill for infinite gathering items that cost real $$$.
3. No prior warning about having old gathering tools made obsolete.

Not much more to add. Eagerly awaiting Anet reply on this situation.

All I see is “wah wah wah”. The old tools are not obsolete by any means, they are still unlimited gathering tools, they still have a purpose. Getting some Watchwork Sprockets from the new pick is hardly game-breaking. They’re worth what, a few copper a piece? The price will only drop as more people gather them with the new pick, it’s called supply and demand. If you check the spidy, they are dropping in price fast. These will most likely be the new Silk Cloth; in great supply without much demand. Oh, and before you argue, “Well there are recipes that require these,” yeah, there are plenty of recipes that require Silk, too, but it still was worthless until recently.

Aedelric.1287:

Actually it is not advertised as giving you sprockets so it is not a selling point, read the item description I am positive it does not say anything.

People know that it does this because of the forum and reddit rage about it, as well as comments on high profile sites like Duly and talk in-game, and at this point many knew that before buying it, and will have bought it for that reason.

Heezdedjim.8902:

People know that it does this because of the forum and reddit rage about it, as well as comments on high profile sites like Duly and talk in-game, and at this point many knew that before buying it, and will have bought it for that reason.

But the fact it is not advertised as such means that people who do buy it have not a leg to stand on if it was nerfed for the greater good.

How much of this topic can we be 100% sure of?

Or even 90%. I’d settle for 90%.

SallyStitches.4096:

The old tools are not obsolete by any means

Obsolete: adj. No longer produced or used; out of date.
synonyms: out of date, outdated, outmoded, old-fashioned.

If the old tools were put on sale alongside the new one, what percentage do you think would choose to buy them over the new one? How many people do you think will choose not to upgrade to the same functionality if anet allow the older tools to be upgraded? The old tools are obsolete. The new tool does everything the old ones do, plus more in addition. They are functionally superior in every aspect.

SallyStitches.4096:

Getting some Watchwork Sprockets from the new pick is hardly game-breaking. They’re worth what, a few copper a piece? The price will only drop as more people gather them with the new pick, it’s called supply and demand. If you check the spidy, they are dropping in price fast. These will most likely be the new Silk Cloth

Sorry, you’re arguing this is a good thing? That is actually economically “game breaking” for sprockets; you contradicted your own point.

SallyStitches.4096:

All I see is “wah wah wah”.

This doesn’t really add much credibility to your argument.

Excruciator, the `wah wah wah´ is just an obvious inflammatory attempt, perhaps in order to get this topic locked again. People have been fairly polite so far but those for the pick often slip, just report such posts in the future.

I have so desire to see this topic dropped, Arena Net dropped the ball and we do deserve a reply from an employee. What was their intention with this pick? What are they planning for future releases? Will they fix this issue?

Combined the separate topics on the pick have accumulated nearly 1000 posts, that is not really something that can easily be ignored.

Honestly I’m not sure if it’s Anets fault or not. They are run by NcSoft which as anyone who has played Aion or Lineage 2 knows, they are purely a cash grab company that loves selling anything on the cash shops. I really don’t see this pick as being the end but just the tip of a very HUGE iceberg that is going to turn GW2 into a pure P2W game.

SallyStitches.4096:

Shakkara.2641:

XacTactX summarized it as follows:

These are the main reasons why people dislike the new pick:

1. P2W giving out free crafting materials, this is more than the 0c cost per gather on infinite tools.
2. Gear treadmill for infinite gathering items that cost real $$$.
3. No prior warning about having old gathering tools made obsolete.

Not much more to add. Eagerly awaiting Anet reply on this situation.

All I see is “wah wah wah”. The old tools are not obsolete by any means, they are still unlimited gathering tools, they still have a purpose. Getting some Watchwork Sprockets from the new pick is hardly game-breaking. They’re worth what, a few copper a piece? The price will only drop as more people gather them with the new pick, it’s called supply and demand. If you check the spidy, they are dropping in price fast. These will most likely be the new Silk Cloth; in great supply without much demand. Oh, and before you argue, “Well there are recipes that require these,” yeah, there are plenty of recipes that require Silk, too, but it still was worthless until recently.

And you are another person who is missing the point. It’s not about the cheap sprockets. It’s about the fact that Anet would do a vertical progression on a gem store item and the fact that they sold molten pick sets 1-2 months ago for 2850 gems knowing full well there was going to be a new and improved pick being released. So basically Anet did a cash grab with that molten alliance tool set and since that probably didn’t work well, they are now gonna cash grab with this new pick. Once these sales flatten out, maybe a new axe that will give an advantage over others and then a harvesting tool to do the same. Once all those sales flatten out, maybe they will design new kits that give more items on a salvage and offer those for sale. See where this is going? There will be no limit or end to how much vertical progression/advantage the cash store items will offer as long as Anet makes a buck thus beginning a full blown P2W system.

Thank god EQNext public debut is end of this month and hopefully soon after they start beta and get the ball rolling. GW2 is going to turn into 1 big P2W shop thanks to NcSoft.

All this talk over a pay to win item.. there is no pay at all to it. If you want the item spend the gold and get the item. Just because the item is not found on a monster in the game does not make it a P2W. This item is not locked behind spending real world money. If people want to classify any item that requires spending gold on being P2W there are many items in the game that require gold and yet there have been no discussion over those.

Araziel.7201:

Anet’s gotta eat, fellas. Calm down, it isn’t that bad. Buy it with gold if you can’t afford the 12 dollars. And even if you don’t get it this time, save up and get it next time. They always bring that stuff back.

I didn’t know whether or not to take that seriously.

Then I saw your signature.

I’m excited for the pick that gives me free ectos.

Asumita.2174:

I’m excited for the pick that gives me free ectos.

It’s obtained via the following:

- Waypoint to Blazeridge Steppes; Lowland Burns.
- Wait for the Shatterer.
- Stand to his right and autoattack.
- Collect your bonus chest for the day.
- Salvage the rare item inside with a Master Salvage Kit.
- Congratulations, free ecto in five minutes. Now on to SB, Fire Elemental, Golem, Flame Shaman, Svanir Chief, and Melandru.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Asumita.2174:

I’m excited for the pick that gives me free ectos.

It’s obtained via the following:

- Waypoint to Blazeridge Steppes; Lowland Burns.
- Wait for the Shatterer.
- Stand to his right and autoattack.
- Collect your bonus chest for the day.
- Salvage the rare item inside with a Master Salvage Kit.
- Congratulations, free ecto in five minutes. Now on to SB, Fire Elemental, Golem, Flame Shaman, Svanir Chief, and Melandru.

So no problem if the axe give me precursor, cause boss can drop it ?

The question isnt if we can obtained sprocket in other way, or whataver you want. But a pickaxe with this bonus.

VOLKON.1290:

This is not pay to win, not even remotely close to it. The only people arguing it is are the ones that had to change the definition of pay to win, creating a straw man argument which they then can attack. Pay to win shops allow you to purchase an advantage against other players in a PvP environment that they cannot get otherwise, that’s the original and real definition. Redefining the phrase and then arguing against your redefinition is dishonest at best. I’ve played a few games that had actual pay to win. If anyone thinks this is pay to win, they need to get out more.

I agree.

Zypher.7609:

All this talk over a pay to win item.. there is no pay at all to it. If you want the item spend the gold and get the item. Just because the item is not found on a monster in the game does not make it a P2W. This item is not locked behind spending real world money. If people want to classify any item that requires spending gold on being P2W there are many items in the game that require gold and yet there have been no discussion over those.

My thoughts exactly! If this is what people consider pay to win, then the game became pay to win from the very start.

Buy gems + convert to gold = buy exotic/legendary gear from TP.

Shasha.2548:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Asumita.2174:

I’m excited for the pick that gives me free ectos.

It’s obtained via the following:

- Waypoint to Blazeridge Steppes; Lowland Burns.
- Wait for the Shatterer.
- Stand to his right and autoattack.
- Collect your bonus chest for the day.
- Salvage the rare item inside with a Master Salvage Kit.
- Congratulations, free ecto in five minutes. Now on to SB, Fire Elemental, Golem, Flame Shaman, Svanir Chief, and Melandru.

So no problem if the axe give me precursor, cause boss can drop it ?

The question isnt if we can obtained sprocket in other way, or whataver you want. But a pickaxe with this bonus.

Well,

A – That’s not what I said, and nowhere did I talk about the tool offering Ectoplasm as a reality. OR about a boss dropping precursors vs a tool giving you one.
B – That’s more ludicrous hyperbole in a thread which doesn’t need any more.
and
C – It’s in response to sarcasm about needing Ectoplasm to be easier to obtain than it currently is.

I’ve said my perspective on the pickaxe, and how it would have been better if it was a potential drop OR a Gem Purchase. Or, alternatively, all the other tools had their own special drops (which could otherwise be obtained at a special point of the year, the tool just allows year-round access).

Seriously. Nobody has addressed that first option, and the second isn’t being discussed at all. Both are legitimately decent options to go with here, if sprockets are put into the rotation of other limited-time offerings dropping Quartz/Candy Corn/Snowflakes sometime during the year.

Kind of funny that people keep complaining. As long as end game is grind gold to buy gear/skins/ect., which it is, and as long as there is a gems – gold exchange, then its already a pw2 game.

Want a legendary? Put $400 in gold, convert it to gems, and you have one in under 5 minutes, while the guy next to you spent a year running dungeons and farming mats to get his. Want ascended armor? Buy more gems and buy all the mats (minus the account bound ones, but those are easy). Want a new leveled alt? Buy gems and level all 8 crafting professions up in an hour, then buy more gems to outfit him in exotics + expensive skins.

P2w would be a gemstore item that gave you a statboost that was unobtainable otherwise, or a weapon with greater attack than you could craft in game, but even then if there is a gems – gold exchange so you can get it through in game gold without spending any real money, then its not p2w.

hellsmachine.4085:

Zypher.7609:

All this talk over a pay to win item.. there is no pay at all to it. If you want the item spend the gold and get the item. Just because the item is not found on a monster in the game does not make it a P2W. This item is not locked behind spending real world money. If people want to classify any item that requires spending gold on being P2W there are many items in the game that require gold and yet there have been no discussion over those.

My thoughts exactly! If this is what people consider pay to win, then the game became pay to win from the very start.

Buy gems + convert to gold = buy exotic/legendary gear from TP.

It doesn’t really matter if the item counts as being “pay to win” or not. What matters is the incentives putting out an item like this creates. After this, people who want an infinite gathering tool would probably be smart to NOT spend their money right now, because in two more months there could be an even better one for the same price. Even if there ultimately isn’t a better one later, this release is certainly creating the perception that there might be, and perception is really all you have to go on when making your buying decisions, since Anet does not disclose what it will do in the future. Discouraging people who want to spend money from spending it is not going to help anyone, in my opinion.

@Tobias Trueflight
Sorry for misunderstanding then.

For those who’s blind : in fact we have lot of “P2W” item in gemstore.

BUT, for someone who never open gemstore, its a bonus he cant find anywhere. Isnt cosmetic or convenience, its a direct effective bonus.

hellsmachine.4085:

Buy gems + convert to gold = buy exotic/legendary gear from TP.

Buy gems + convert to gold = shortcut almost the entire grindy process to crafting Ascended

I don’t like the precedent it sets. The item itself, I don’t care about one way or the other.

Shasha.2548:

@Tobias Trueflight
Sorry for misunderstanding then.

For those who’s blind : in fact we have lot of “P2W” item in gemstore.

I know, I know, we really do need to lobby for them to remove the most powerful item there is from the store. It’s too much to even give them away for achievement rewards. They must be strictly limited and rationed out only once a year . . . to the top Costume Brawl masters.

BUT, for someone who never open gemstore, its a bonus he cant find anywhere. Isnt cosmetic or convenience, its a direct effective bonus.

I agree there is most definitely something which is incredibly effective as a bonus. It covers up the unsightly Ascended back items, whose ugliness is the tradeoff for how gamebreakingly powerful they are.

(By the way, most of the boosters you can get through the store? Available through unlocking chests or Daily Achievement rewards rarely. The infinite gathering tools? Insanely overpriced to the point a break even analysis says it could take years to pay off at a Gold/Gem conversion rate much kinder than it was.)

Katz.5143:

I don’t like the precedent it sets. The item itself, I don’t care about one way or the other.

This. The pick all by itself isn’t that bad.

But it’s just a matter of time before they add better stuff. And again and again and again. Each a little bit better than the last.

Before long, the frog will have boiled to death. But the fanboys will keep on saying that the water is fine!

So I guess those of you complaining about the pick also complain about other items you own that have new upgrades, right? “I just bought this car 2 years ago, and you’re telling me a better, newer model is available! I demand a refund!,” is essentially what you’re saying. If you want the new pick so bad, buy it, and stop whining on the forums about it. Also, it’s not “pay to win”, you can use gold to buy it, so ANYONE can obtain this item.

If this pick is indeed providing bonus materials that other picks do not, it means that a BiS item is now exclusive to the gem store. This is an awful precedent regardless of how unimportant the material may seem.

Since in-game gold can be obtained via paying real world money and exchanging the gems for it, anything that can be bought on the TP can be obtained through a credit card and need not be earned through actually playing the game (beyond TP purchases). I’m sure I don’t have to point out that the advantages (even indirect) of items available through the TP and gem store are major facilitators for many “win” (win = reaching a key goal within the game) conditions. You can obtain the best weapons, materials that significantly reduce the game time and effort needed to max a craft and make the best gear, consumables, skins, pets, etc. These are things that many players see as achievements in themselves, but the prestige associated with it is low in this game because there’s certainly nothing to mark whether or not, for example, a certain legendary was bought via gold exchanged from credit card bought gems.

The fact that gold can also be exchanged for gems, and thus can be used to buy anything available at the gem store, is not important in this regard in my opinion. If something can be bought on the TP or gem store via a credit card gem exchange – that is all that matters in terms of being able to bypass actually earning the items in game. Again, it is the possibility of doing this that undermines the fairness: the possibility of someone acquiring the pick through gold to gem exchange (or otherwise in game somehow) does not negate the easy (unfair?) advantage that credit card purchasers get as they circumvent having to put in the in-game effort.

Personally, in principle, the idea of being able to potentially buy such advantages does not sit well at all. In practice, I use denial and just try to have fun, not caring much about how anybody else got their stuff.

However, this little pick seems to be pushing the envelope. I feel like it is commercially underhanded by purposefully making previously supposedly ‘permanent’ items obsolete (or at least less advantageous) by later releasing better versions. The improved versions are not improved because of market developments (for example, as with a tv) – no revolution in coding occurred that made it possible for them to do this now.

This is just a lousy business practice in my opinion – and something which is harder to ignore than my above issue with being able to buy gold. Please do not go further down this road.

I hope this pick thing is just a misunderstanding. This is an ok game for now, don’t muddle it up with this nonsense.

I will just add my opinion.

Lately it’s another kinda offending practice in GW2 gem store and I feel really disappointed.
I guess they want me to feel bad for spending money on my 11 sets of unlimited tools.
Well so they made their point. I really feel bad…

I also feel bad by the fact they don’t want to respond to our posts and correct mistakes like the one they just did.

I don’t know what will be next? Does ANet Gem Store division want to make me feel even more disappointed?
Just like I felt about selling item (this time they sold Mr Sparkles) for real world cash and threw equivalent with extra bonus gems. They did reskins and elevated prices of single item up to 500 gems. What will go next?
…

I will ask how much does it has to go to make them let us feel bad about playing the game or paying money in GW2 for the fun we got playing?
I feel like they lost a kind of standard that worked in terms of game shop items for over a year, and now I won’t say anymore that gem shop is for convenience only.

Sadly this makes my game experience bad and I have already started looking for another game since December Mr Sparkles sell. So I will see how many more slaps in the face (like those examples above) will I take.

For everyone who thinks this is fun… Good for you. I hope you will see it like that in the future, especially if people really will go away.

The morally “right” thing to do for this would just be to either

1. Remove the chance for sprockets on it
2. Add chance for sprockets to every other high tier mining pick (ori, bone and molten)
3. Offer everyone who has bone and molten picks to turn in (like they did with soulbound ones) to get the new 1

After all my molten alliance pick (granted I bought mine when it was 800 gems) which is the same cost now compared to the new pick. It’s literally the same thing just a different look but with a granted bonus to it for the same value.

Look at it this way. You’re buying a truck (a) for xx dollars. Then you see truck (b) for the same cost but with no motor. Which truck would you buy then? You’d by the one with the motor. Needless to say watchwork pick is a giant kick in the teeth to players who bought molten and bone picks for 1k gems a piece only to have a slightly better pick thrown out there a few months later.

Basically, there are tree groups of people:

1. People who bought previous tools.
2. People who did not buy previous tools, but are generally intersted in them.
3. People who did not buy previous tools, and have no intention of ever doing so.

These new tools (yes, I used the plural, because lets face it: once they start selling infinite+bonus tools nobody will buy infinite-only tools again) basically screw over group #1 in an attempt to monetize group #1 (people who want to upgrade) and #2 (people who didn’t think infinite-only was good enough).

While this will boost sales for a brief period, it is an extremely short sighted move as the implications this brings are pretty major:

• No item from the gem store is guranteed to stay “BiS”

• The Gem Store now offers permanent advantages, which are unavailable anywhere else.

Especially with the first point all previous customers (i.e. the people who pay your bills) will think twice before making another purchase in the Gem Store and combined with the second point you are heading towards P2W at an alarming pace.

Even if some people havn’t realized it yet. "That Salvage-O-Matic you have? Why not buy this upgraded version with a 90% ecto salvage rating?"

Thus my suggestion: Remove the bonus and offer anyone who bought them a refund.

By the way:
Comparisons with any real world items are inherently flawed. Any infinite tool you have is de facto worthless (i.e. it has no monetary value) from the moment you pressed the purchase button.

Rengaru.4730:

By the way:
Comparisons with any real world items are inherently flawed. Any infinite tool you have is de facto worthless (i.e. it has no monetary value) from the moment you pressed the purchase button.

Was using mine as an example. Needless to say though you don’t screw over the existing people who have/are supporting you already which they’ve kind of done here.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Rengaru.4730:

By the way:
Comparisons with any real world items are inherently flawed. Any infinite tool you have is de facto worthless (i.e. it has no monetary value) from the moment you pressed the purchase button.

Was using mine as an example. Needless to say though you don’t screw over the existing people who have/are supporting you already which they’ve kind of done here.

I have to say I feel that way, but it seems gem store division looks at people different way.

I think it will soon goes back to them and when it does they will have to find another trick, but in that time people who respected the game, supported it and had fun will be really sick of being threated like they do right now and just move on.

I moved on from my last MMO when they introduced shameful money grabs and I respected ANet for they philosophy. Yet it seems it changed now… So I guess my days in here are kinda counted…

Rengaru.4730:

Comparisons with any real world items are inherently flawed. Any infinite tool you have is de facto worthless (i.e. it has no monetary value) from the moment you pressed the purchase button.

Very important point. In the real world, there is no such concept as “account bound” for a durable good. If you buy an item, and then want to upgrade to a better version later, you are able to sell the original to recoup part of your investment, meaning the amount you pay to upgrade is the difference in value between between the old and the new. I think no one would have any problem if this game system worked like the real world, and let you sell your old item before buying a new one – people are upset because it ISN’T working like the real world, and instead of being able to sell their old car to partially fund a new one, their only choice is to buy the new car at full price while the old one gathers dust in the garage.

copy-paste of my post in previous thread, because people have clearly not read it:

poor, poor anet. always blamed by players for ncsoft’s marketing decisions. it’s not the devs who are rich, it’s the ncsoft executives laughing their way to the bank.

do you think anet has a say in where the money earned from gems goes? no! it’s all going to ncsoft, the publisher, who in the end decide where to “invest”, which might be in gw2 (yeah, right..), wildstar, or blade & soul or whatever evil giant corporation scheme they have.

in any case, anet’s manifesto was all a lie. what will you do about it? [/copy-pasta]

see sauzo’s post too. also, this hardly smacks of p2w to me. you wanna see p2w? pick up any nexon game, where it’s impossible to get good stats (say, the equivalent of exotics or ascended) without spending any money.

1) sprockets are freely tradeable on tp, and nobody has confirmed that watchwork mobs will no longer spawn in tyria if scarlet goes away. hence, sprockets are not gemstore exclusive.

2) it does nothing in pvp, and even in pve, if you’ve amassed billions of sprockets, it doesn’t increase your stats, it only makes a new stat combo available to craft.

3) i’ve yet to see a gathering tool with OMGOVERPOWEREDANETPLEASENERF gathering abilities, so all this talk about setting a precedent is just speculation.

4) if you don’t like it, don’t buy it. it’s your choice. if nobody buys it, NCSOFT might rethink it and stop, or it might make an ecto-gathering tool. who knows? but with the consumerist society we have nowadays, i suspect this item will see good sales.

fully expecting my points to be ignored. carry on speculating and wasting your breath on NCSOFT

@iHungeri:

1) Scarlet going away? Confirmed a while ago already.
2) PvE and PvP lockers will become one. What if you need to get a special rune or sigil? Like rune of tormenting/perplexity or sigil of bursting/malice/exuberance? What if they decide you can’t buy them from the PvP vendor, but that you can only get them from PvE? (crafted with sprockets) You can live without them, of course, but wouldn’t it be nice on your engineer/[insert class] to have those runes and sigils? And hey, you can buy them if you do enough PvP, right? Given that PvP started with awarding gold from winning matches?
3) Not yet. Let’s say all harvesting sickles will give you a rare chance of obtaining the necessary ingredient for one of the new legendaries. Here’s the good part: if you buy the special gemstore sickle, however, your chances to get this item will be much higher!
4) See example 2. Yes, in principle, it’s your choice. But are you really ready to harvest 20.000 more plants than someone who has a gemstore sickle?

You can downplay this all you want, but it’s a fundemental policy change that has major ramifications for every aspect of the game.

yurdun.2501:

I think a good fix to all this is for them to
1. apply this same feature to all unlimited picks, which gives them a small chance at sprocket, quartz crystal, or candy cane, and any other thing they decided to introduce in the future…
2. create a new in game pick “Ancient Orichalcum Infused Pick” for a couple more silver or an option to purchase with laurels or karma.

Done. We’ve fixed it! How easy…

I think this is probably the most useful post on this thread. I agree 100%!

My only other gripe here is that I have purchased every single unlimited node item on the gem store in the past for the “Convenience” as that is what ANET advertised them as. No harm done there! BUT NOW… Wow I feel a little bit scammed that now they have introduced an even better (and I use the term “Better” very lightly!) one that gives a 20% chance of getting an item that will eventually be IMPOSSIBLE to get for some players.

I think ANET forget that people join the game all the time and as such they have missed certain living story events that allow for NODES in Home Instance. So lets just look at it this way:

My friend is thinking about joining the game next week when he gets paid: UH OH!

Well IMO, don’t bother playing GW2 now. You have missed so much due to advantages of doing living story that you will ALWAYS be multiple steps behind the rest of the player base. As for Sprockets… Well unless you buy the pick you will always have to purchase them from the TP as you will simply never be able to get any.

Not trying to flame here, but ANET… Do you not think that you are making it difficult to encourage new players after they have missed so much, and furthermore, aggravating players (such as myself) by adding in new items with additional bonuses that almost force me to buy them through fear of falling behind like the rest of the new players.

I have been here since GW2 Pre-Launch BETA and I know that if i wasn’t here from the very start of the game and had missed so much content… I wouldn’t have bothered at all and would have chosen a game that doesn’t penalize it’s players based on the time they discovered the game.

It may seem off-topic but it’s all related really. This limited time Pick with additional advantages over the other one’s already released is putting players in a “Living World” situation. “Do it now or forever miss out on the advantages other players now have over you”.

#Justsaying

EDIT: SOLUTION TO THIS WHOLE MESS!

1. Leave the previous Resource items as they are (Without boosts)
2. Add ALL of them to “Black Lion Weapons Specialist”
3. The one’s without boosts cost less than one’s with boosts.
4. Offer a promotional offer on Black Lion Keys as a “Were’re sorry we messed up”
5. introduce a new set to standard Merchant NPCs who offer them with the boosts but not unlimited.

That way, everyone is happy and still has the opportunity to get unlimited through the BL-Key drops/rewards and still remains on the Gem Store for those who wanna just buy them out right.

As for the Home Instance Resource Nodes and other things people have missed due to joining the game later than everyone else, there should be something included in the game that allows people to obtain these. Maybe an update in HoM that allows you to revisit an event that will allow you to obtain the items (providing you haven’t already got them) I dunno how you’d wanna play it… But there should be a way to allow new players to catch up with the rest of us, otherwise we go around in circles again with certain players having advantages over others.

yurdun.2501:

I think a good fix to all this is for them to
1. apply this same feature to all unlimited picks, which gives them a small chance at sprocket, quartz crystal, or candy cane, and any other thing they decided to introduce in the future…
2. create a new in game pick “Ancient Orichalcum Infused Pick” for a couple more silver or an option to purchase with laurels or karma.

Done. We’ve fixed it! How easy…

If they did go this route they would probably not make it as easily accessible as buying from a generic vendor (like normal tools). They would likely tack the “bonus” part onto the tools you purchase with laurels from the laurel vendor just so they they can say, “There you go, you can get it without going to the gem store now. Play our game every day and do your dailies if you want them!” It’ll also double quadruple octuple the laurel cost of those tools.

SOLUTION TO THIS WHOLE MESS!

1. Leave the previous Resource items as they are (Without boosts)
2. Add ALL of them to “Black Lion Weapons Specialist”
3. The one’s without boosts cost less than one’s with boosts.
4. Offer a promotional offer on Black Lion Keys as a “Were’re sorry we messed up”
5. introduce a new set to standard Merchant NPCs who offer them with the boosts but not unlimited.

That way, everyone is happy and still has the opportunity to get unlimited through the BL-Key drops/rewards and still remains on the Gem Store for those who wanna just buy them out right.

As for the Home Instance Resource Nodes and other things people have missed due to joining the game later than everyone else, there should be something included in the game that allows people to obtain these. Maybe an update in HoM that allows you to revisit an event that will allow you to obtain the items (providing you haven’t already got them) I dunno how you’d wanna play it… But there should be a way to allow new players to catch up with the rest of us, otherwise we go around in circles again with certain players having advantages over others.

As I said in the other thread, the introduction of the extra loot from this pick is unacceptable and irrevocably is power creep in the sense that all previous permanent tools are inferior by contrast.

This bonus effect should absolutely be removed.

Rising Dusk.2408:

As I said in the other thread, the introduction of the extra loot from this pick is unacceptable and irrevocably is power creep in the sense that all previous permanent tools are inferior by contrast.

This bonus effect should absolutely be removed.

I personally Don’t see it as a problem if they roll it out to ALL Players using in-game NPC methods, such as new Harvesting tier from Merchants that also provide the boosts. As long as the playing field is leveled out fairly between all players then it’s fine. HOWEVER as it currently stands, I agree with you. It should be reviewed and amendments made to either give EVERYONE the additional boost or take it away so no-one has it!

Quote from Oklahoma the Musical:
“If you can’t give me all, give me nothing, and nothing’s what you’ll get from me” lol

Coopziana.1802:

I personally Don’t see it as a problem if they roll it out to ALL Players using in-game NPC methods, such as new Harvesting tier from Merchants that also provide the boosts.

I think this is a good idea and a nice way to handle it that doesn’t involve refunds/taking away things from anyone. However, that only addresses the balance-based concerns (i.e., a best-in-slot cash shop only item is a bad thing), but not the future expectation concerns that this item has raised (should I not buy things from the gem store, because I don’t want to feel like a sucker when an even better version comes out soon for the same price?). The second concern would need to be addressed as well to restore confidence that purchasing from the gem store is a GOOD idea, and not something soon likely to trigger buyer’s remorse.

My opinion on the matter just did a 180.

Anybody that is angry about the gem store creep should take into account black lion boxes. Day 1 boxes did not have the same contents that today’s boxes do. Anet continually changes drop contents. Should we demand all black lion keys be refunded based on this?

My trust is still shattered, but the argument stands. Just stop supporting the store if it doesn’t agree with you.

Personally, I don’t think the item is inherently bad, however, ANet didn’t set the expectation that there would be a better version of the Molten Alliance pick, so players that thought they were buying a permanent best-in-slot pick ended up feeling deceived.

I think if players knew at the time the Molten pick came out that a better version would later be available, we wouldn’t see the rage that we are seeing today.

Well, based on the mangled definition of “pay to win” that people are using on here, the entire gem store is P2W. This makes any argument about a particular item being P2W moot. So these threads about such and such item being P2W are pointless since everything in the gem store is and they’re just pointing out the obvious.

Ayrilana.1396:

Well, based on the mangled definition of “pay to win” that people are using on here, the entire gem store is P2W. This makes any argument about a particular item being P2W moot. So these threads about such and such item being P2W are pointless since everything in the gem store is and they’re just pointing out the obvious.

But this thread (and several others) are not about P2W… some people just insist on derailing the threads with constant posts discussing nothing but P2W (mostly its definition) instead of the question posed and topics outlined for discussion in the opening post.

StinVec.3621:

Ayrilana.1396:

Well, based on the mangled definition of “pay to win” that people are using on here, the entire gem store is P2W. This makes any argument about a particular item being P2W moot. So these threads about such and such item being P2W are pointless since everything in the gem store is and they’re just pointing out the obvious.

But this thread (and several others) are not about P2W… some people just insist on derailing the threads with constant posts discussing nothing but P2W (mostly its definition) instead of the question posed and topics outlined for discussion in the opening post.

The second item in the OP’s post mentioned that it’s only available on the gem store. This is what’s causing P2W to keep being brought up. They didn’t directly state it but people are inferring it.

I doubt they will remove / change the pick.

rogerwilko.6895:

I doubt they will remove / change the pick.

I think anything is possible at this point just so long as the cards are stacked right. Enough people made noise about the light flameseeker armor for them to do something about it. I’m sure they’ll have to make a decision if say, reddit gets more flooding in regards to the topic and all of a sudden we get articles on RPS, pcgamer, and the like re-discussing the ethics behind various categories of paid for content and it gets to the point where they have to then start defending themselves again, (burning valuable time and money doing so negating the profits gained from said watchwork sprocket pick, thus, simply wasting everyone’s time in the end).

One thing is for sure though. I’ll buy the pick if the additional feature gets removed.

A solution could be: “Watchwork Sprockets are now added to the Gems Loottable while harvesting with the new pickaxe”

Someone really care about this boost ? I think they can just delete it and let this pickaxe without.. Unlimited + skin…

I’m sure lot of people dont want that type of boost at all, in that way (gemstore) i main…
But i’m not sure some people care about some sprocket bonus at the start…