Guild Wars 2

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

angelpaladin.7921:

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

It is worrying. By this point I would have expected at least a corporate-diplomacy style “we appreciate your concern and will discuss internally,” or “while it’s too late to do anything about this release, we will take these comments into consideration for the future,” or anything, really, regardless of whether they plan to make any changes or not. The lack of a simple “we are here and we are listening” after something like 1000+ posts on all the threads about this topic and 10000+ views suggests that either 1) nobody cares, or 2) the people who care are being prohibited from speaking. Either way, it doesn’t make them look good.

angelpaladin.7921:

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

The silence means this isn’t an “oops, we never thought of it like that” problem.

It likely means they think it’s perfectly ok with P2W and are hoping silence will cause people to give up discussing this issue. At best it means they are internally debating the issue, but that’s even bad because it means some people think the item is ok.

angelpaladin.7921:

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

I am more inclined to think that it is an indication that they wish to determine the scope of the reaction in order to have the full picture to develop a response and resolution.

angelpaladin.7921:

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

As I agree with the disheartening of the product, I will suggest that Anet has atleast observed a couple of people who have made remarks in regards to the watchwork mining pick tool posted here;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Infinite-Gathering-Tools-Some-Info-for-you

Anyone tried squeezing an answer from them on Twitter?

Ramiel.4931:

Anyone tried squeezing an answer from them on Twitter?

I want to ask the same for reddit ? I dont have account and never use it personaly(only read some link), so…

Lord Kuru.3685:

angelpaladin.7921:

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

The silence means this isn’t an “oops, we never thought of it like that” problem.

It likely means they think it’s perfectly ok with P2W and are hoping silence will cause people to give up discussing this issue. At best it means they are internally debating the issue, but that’s even bad because it means some people think the item is ok.

I am getting the same vibe except I am starting to wonder how healthy the game really is. I wonder if Wildstar (a P2P mmo) does well will they semi abandon GW2. Meaning fewer updates and more P2W items like the pickax showing up.

I think when they release this huge QOL update they been hinting at releasing when the living story is over, will be the make or break moment for the game. The game will either perk up with new players and older players. The game will just die off slowly as fewer and fewer new people buy into the game while current player base moves on.

Just wanted to add my voice and say that this is a perfect example of what’s wrong with the gem store. Either add the same watchwork bonus to the previously released gathering tools or remove that functionality from the watchwork one and leave it the same as the others.

Others have brought up the slippery slope argument, I don’t need to go into it. Maybe ArenaNet is hesitating because they’re coming off another huge gem store scandal with the human light T3, but this is unacceptable. Find another way to make money from the gem store without compromising your integrity, please.

Lord Kuru.3685:

angelpaladin.7921:

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

The silence means this isn’t an “oops, we never thought of it like that” problem.

It likely means they think it’s perfectly ok with P2W and are hoping silence will cause people to give up discussing this issue. At best it means they are internally debating the issue, but that’s even bad because it means some people think the item is ok.

I think it looks more like “figure out how many people are really kittened off about this, how many are riding the anti-ANet karma train, and figure out an appropriate suggested fix and course of action before we speak up”.

They have been hit with broadsides before over “we’re going to discuss this” responses before. They may have decided to move from “let them know we heard” to “show up with all our ducks ready”.

angelpaladin.7921:

Lord Kuru.3685:

angelpaladin.7921:

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

The silence means this isn’t an “oops, we never thought of it like that” problem.

It likely means they think it’s perfectly ok with P2W and are hoping silence will cause people to give up discussing this issue. At best it means they are internally debating the issue, but that’s even bad because it means some people think the item is ok.

I am getting the same vibe except I am starting to wonder how healthy the game really is. I wonder if Wildstar (a P2P mmo) does well will they semi abandon GW2. Meaning fewer updates and more P2W items like the pickax showing up.

I think when they release this huge QOL update they been hinting at releasing when the living story is over, will be the make or break moment for the game. The game will either perk up with new players and older players. The game will just die off slowly as fewer and fewer new people buy into the game while current player base moves on.

NCsoft is the publisher of GW2 and Wildstar, not the developer. GW1 had 4 expansions and I don’t see why GW2 can’t have them aswell.

Money, money, money
Must be funny
In the rich man’s world
Money, money, money
Always sunny
In the rich man’s world
Aha-ahaaa
All the things I could do
If I had a little money
It’s a rich man’s world

Mamma mia, here we go again . . .

See, I would have gone with:

Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay and your O.K.
Money it’s a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I’ll buy me a football team
Money get back
I’m all right Jack keep your hands off my stack.
Money it’s a hit
Don’t give me that do goody good bullkitten
I’m in the hi-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet
Money it’s a crime
Share it fairly but don’t take a slice of my pie
Money so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a rise it’s no surprise that they’re
giving none away

On a more serious note:
Their publisher is Asian NCSoft with a history of Asian MMO’s that are (in)famous for having this kind of garbage in their ingameshops. Little things like gathering tools that make your character bit more special with a 20% chance of getting extra material.

There’s nothing you can do about it except leave the game if you want to protest or make threads like this. Developers do what they want to do to please their publisher and shareholders.

IMO, it’s definitely p2w. It would be fine if it’s only skin and effect but actually gaining more stuff is really bad design no matter the value of the item gained. Bad precedent.

biscuit.7540:

IMO, it’s definitely p2w. It would be fine if it’s only skin and effect but actually gaining more stuff is really bad design no matter the value of the item gained. Bad precedent.

Completely agree. NO advantage should be purchased with gems. Black Lion kits offer this, but Anet were sneaky enough to make those drop like candy early on so no one felt offended.

Remove all added loot from the new picks.

biscuit.7540:

IMO, it’s definitely p2w. It would be fine if it’s only skin and effect but actually gaining more stuff is really bad design no matter the value of the item gained. Bad precedent.

What do you actually ‘win’.

This pick gives a ‘permanent advantage’ which is not the same thing as ‘winning’ something in-game.

angelpaladin.7921:

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

Well they never really did.
$ talks.

Come on guys, grow up. This watchwork mining pick being P2W really annoys me. How is it P2W when you can buy gems with in-game gold? i bought mine for 1000 gems, that takes around 80g. 1 week dungeoning & doing world events would be enough for that.

Just think like this, it’ll be no different if watchwork mining pick is a limited content which can be bought by 100g right? Most of those lazy and rich peoples will buy gems, convert to gold and buy the pick, while some people will go farm gold and get that mining pick by playing in-game content. Fair enough?

Honestly, GW2 Gem Store is a great idea, since you can actually buy those so-called “limited edition” and “giving advantage over other people” things by playing the game (of course, i mean in-game gold), while when you like convenience or perhaps your real life time can make more gold (by buying gems and converting it), you can buy gems with real life money.

Me myself? I never even bought gems with IRL money. But for the record, i’ve bought a lot of gem store thingies, including the mining pick.

Yeah, i also think that P2W isn’t an argument, but it’s unfair for all other players which bought the old unlimited mining pick, because they don’t have this extra effect.

So all the old unlimited mining picks also should get this effect!

StinVec.3621:

But this thread (and several others) are not about P2W… some people just insist on derailing the threads with constant posts discussing nothing but P2W (mostly its definition) instead of the question posed and topics outlined for discussion in the opening post.

biscuit.7540:

IMO, it’s definitely p2w. It would be fine if it’s only skin and effect but actually gaining more stuff is really bad design no matter the value of the item gained. Bad precedent.

So, if this thread isn’t about “pay to win” why do we keep getting posts like this?

Please consider as well the time gap between the other unlimited mining pick (bone and molten alliance) to the watchwork. How much ores have you dug up without buying orichalcum pick? Plus the lower price of 200 gems on old mining picks, i’d say fair enough that if Anet decides that this new pick will have a bonus effect. You know, newer items should be better than the past. Or maybe you wish that there would be nothing new in the gem store, and then you can play this game without buying gems for anything again? Guess what, Anet needs their money because they are real humans working to make and mantain this game.

I realized that, but still bought the watchwork (with gold in case readers don’t read my previous post, so definitely Pay to Win isn’t the only option in this game. You can always Play [and gain gold] to Win since gems are purchasable via gold). You know why? Because I play this game in this moment, not in the future where maybe there will be a mining pick that dugs ectoplasms. Not gonna wait too long for possible upcoming new shinies. Face it, molten alliance and bone picks was the best deal when it was on the gemstore. That’s probably the reason why most of you bought it. Now, guess what, a new deal becomes the best option. That shouldn’t be surprising if you are familiar with a similar situation happening in real life right?

If they remove the unlimited part of your mining pick, that’s a real problem. I guess we should all quit this game at that time. But right now, what they’re doing is fair and square. It’s just what business is about. This game economy is a fun thing since it resembles real life economy pretty well.

Anet allows you to buy gold.

With the same amount of cash you’d spend on a pick that nets you a few extra sprockets, you could instead get gold and buy a million sprockets.

Simple math makes everyone in this thread a fool.

People talking about a “dangerous precedent” need to open their eyes.

We have always been on our gear treadmill….. we have a gold buying system in place… and you can buy the most prestigious items in the game (legendaries) with gold.

You knew all of this when you started playing.

rogerwilko.6895:

angelpaladin.7921:

I think its pretty much obvious Anet being silent on this for the past 3 days shows they really don’t care about us or the community. Take from that what you will but I will personally take it as a massive slap in the face and a sign of things to come.

Well they never really did.
$ talks.

Not as loud as the player’s, without which, the game is nothing.

Arcs.6497:

You know, newer items should be better than the past.

No, no, no.

Yes, for a ridiculous price they get a chance to salvage a item worth a few coppers.

Or they could just have sold the gems to gold directly (you remember that right?).

The biggest concern is the previous infinite tools lacking a touch, but you could already buy your way to legendaries and what have you with cash so don’t even try.

other than that i see it as a convenience item for people who didn’t complete the achievement for the node or who are too lazy to go to their home instance. I haven’t bought it myself, im not convinced its worth the price.

None of the infinite gathering tools are worth the price. That’s not the point. Nor is it really what people would call “Pay to Win” if they were being honest with themselves.

The complaints that are surfacing are people who feel this is vertical progression creeping into a game they feel they were promised wouldn’t have such progression. They feel betrayed and lied to.

While personally, I’d ask them where they were this last year, because I’m not sure how Arena.net could have made it any more clear that they were considering and were willing to implement such progression of many different veins.

It’s time for them to walk away and never look back if they want to make their point, because Arena.net has heard their complaints, and have decided them to be without merit.

A couple of things; buying gems with ingame gold directly benefits NCsoft by raising the gold -> gems ratio and encouraging people to purchase gems. Even if you never spent a single penny on ingame gems, converting your gold to gems indirectly benefits NCsoft by providing further incentive for others to pay money for gems.

Every single pick that gets sold on the gemstore goes towards generating more revenue for NCsoft, regardless of whether you paid ingame currency or otherwise. Try to see the bigger picture, rather than from a personal, singular perspective only. When you exchange gold for gems, you are accepting indirect payment from another player who spent real currency on gems, which they exchanged for your gold.

I am not sure about you, but I wouldn’t consider such a mindless and unrewarding task as grinding the pitiful rewards found in this game worth my time for what would be the equivalent of less than $1 per hour, but of course that is your prerogative.

Secondly, the suggestions that people who don’t like the pick should just “buy it if you want it so much” are missing the point. I don’t want the pick. I don’t want it to exist, I don’t believe it should be a part of the game. I object to it due to the implications for the ingame economy and the hypocritical change of heart anet appear to have had regarding vertical progression.

I could buy this pick for every character in my vault if I chose to, and I could do that with real life currency or gems purchased with gold ingame. This, for me personally, is not a factor at all to do with personal wealth, ingame or otherwise.

I respect the right to have a differing opinion to mine, but perhaps even those of you who do would admit that the lack of response to a serious concern shared by many paying customers is more than a little disturbing. In fact it’s downright insulting. This leaves me with no choice but to withdraw any further financial support; I am positive I won’t be alone in that, which does not bode well for the future of this game.

Nearly all gemstore is P2W, stop try to deny it. Basicly, it is cause gemstore give you something for real money. Convert gold > gem didnt change anything, its only the fature for let us “play how we want”.

The point is : P2W is limited for no-direct advantage for exclusive content. The only question you have to ask is “If i do something in the game, this thing give me advantage or not ?” This pickaxe, the answer is yes. Then its over the limit.

The second main point its : Can we called this a vertical progression in permanent tools ? Its yes too.

Now, you can accept it or want to stop it.

Meh its the same as Ascended/Legendaries.

You will all learn to deal with it.

Shasha.2548:

ALL gemstore is P2W, stop try to deny it. Basicly, it is cause gemstore give you something you cant have out of it for real money. Convert gold > gem didnt change anything, its only the fature for let us “play how we want”.

Yeah, this isn’t the topic of the thread or I’d debate once again what exactly the “win” you’re speaking of. Here’s a problem – said “win” doesn’t really exist in the same state as other places where that term is used more directly.

I edit, but you have the point: isnt the place for this.

It is hilarious how many people expect businesses not to push the envelope in order to make money.

Some people have been lulled into the false ideal that GW2 is some fan game that isn’t designed to make money.

I see a lot of people arguing that “this isn’t P2W because of definition of P2W is X” but this completely ignores the point. What matters is not the technical definition, but what the definitions represent.

Cash shop items typically fall into the following categories:
Enhancement options – Items which enhance your game-play abilities, such as better stats.
Convenience options – Items that allow you to obtain items faster, reach places faster (although not affecting things like combat), provide more storage, and otherwise make the game more convenient.
Cosmetics options – Items that provide cosmetic options, such as hair changes and decorative armor.

Any of these can be exclusive to the cash shop or also have a way for players to obtain them via in-game effort, although this is often made very difficult. Nothing in GW2 forces you to spend real life money because of the gold-to-gem conversion, but this doesn’t stop gem prices from becoming too high for players to obtain reasonably through game-play (luckily they are still within acceptable levels, but its unlikely that they will stay there), nor does it make gem store items reasonably obtained through game-play (black lion key drops are excessively rare, ect).

Enhancement options are the most controversial of the three, especially when they are exclusive. GW2 sees these in the form of boosters, but these are limited to PvE and their impact in low, so they don’t cause much uproar.

Convenience options generally aren’t a problem unless the game stats being designed around them. In GW2 we see this with things like banking and trading post use being intentionally difficult, as well as low base storage and inventory, but overall it’s not that bad.

Cosmetic options are rarely an issue in games unless they severely limit what the player has access to through game-play. In GW2 we have many options without spending gems so it’s not an issue.

However, something else to consider is how the gem store affects content updates. If the gem store receives too much attention or starts providing upgrades or items that would fit better as a game-play reward, then it becomes intrusive. We have seen this with many armor sets and weapon skins added to the gem store, yet few new ones added through game-play rewards.

In the case of the watchwork pickaxe the issues with it are:

- It harvests extra resources putting it at a tier higher than the ori pickaxe, arguably higher than the black lion, giving it a level of convenience that may be too high, especially given that sprockets are a limited access (time gated if you have the node) resource unless you buy the pickaxe.

- Nobody was expecting a higher tier harvesting tool and we were told “this is the last tool you’ll ever need!” when purchasing the older permanent gathering tools, making many feel cheated.

- Despite it being a higher tier than the old tools it is the same price, making players who purchased the old ones feel even worse about their purchase.

Call it “P2W” if you like, but I’ll just stick to the word unfair because that’s what I view it as.

Justice.3608:

Meh its the same as Ascended/Legendaries.

You will all learn to deal with it.

Or, you won’t…

Instead, you’ll recycle the hard drive space set aside for Tyria.

./sigh
I woke up this morning and thought: Lets see what’s changed in GW2 during my 12 month absence. Who knows…

Thanks for the lols Anet.
As you were…

I have given various respectful posts a +1 so that I do not have to repeat every single thing I agree with here.

I do want to post some things here though:
1. This item is unacceptable, it sets a bad precedent, and I fear the worst for the future of GW2 if this is not corrected.

2. The thing that ‘hurt’ me most is that it tells me not to spend money on any! unlimited tools, nor spend any gold on it. As I can now be certain the next one may well offer me an advantage that is worth it even more.

3. And I also thinks that Anet deserves this issue to be raised. As it brings me to the reason why this whole issue is most disappointing to me. After the kitten storm Ascended gear brought on, who on earth would think it would be a great idea to do the same thing in the Store! … really ?!?!?! … now I already knew Anet is a hardhead in learning from their mistakes, I been with GW since the GW1 beta’s (yes those with skill gems and the skill amulet), and on most cases Anet needed to hit the same stone at least 3 times before there was so much poop hitting the fan that there was nothing else to do but clean up… but after all these years you would figure them to learn from this as well…

This is the most disappointing to me about this whole situation, I can back Anet up in regards to finding the right balance for the LS in regards to temporarily and persistent content, I can back them up in regards to the CDI’s trying to get the game forward. But there is no way to back them up in regards to making the same mistakes twice or even trice, and continuing to do so. I am all for experimenting and finding new ways to improve gaming, I am also for an in game shop as opposed to a subscription, I am all for the gem-exchange giving people a way to spend their gold on shop items (which mostly give no real advantage or a questionable one). But here I draw the line!

And the uproar about Ascended gear should have made it very clear as to where the community stands on these kind of subjects. Putting the same thing into the shop, that is just, how to find the least offensive word , dumb I guess? and as a long time GW player I would expect better from Anet by now, really disappointing :’(

still no official response?

bump badump

That’s just going to attract negative official responses.

Gotta stay on topic! Quick! Think of something intelligent to say!

So…

What about axes and sickles? How much longer until they get a extra feature?

And what if ArenaNet added a unique sprocket-like item for each tool? Like, the molten tools: …some kind of molten thingy. Plant-ish tools: Pristine toxic spores and stuff. Each individual tool skin has a chance to get a single specific item. So, the logical money maker here would be to get one of each. I personally wouldn’t be surprised if it happened at this point.

On a scale from 1-10, how mad would you be?

I’d be 6. A little frustrated but still on the verge of indifference. Until I see proof that this infinite tool idea is going to screw everything up (especially if it will actually set a solid precedent), I’ll reserve my judgment.

So we’re talking reserved judgment for a good 4-6 months or so.

If anything, the only precedent this is setting at the moment is a silent publisher in the face of a handful of public outcry about infinite gathering tools 2.0…

What would be cool is if we could convince everyone to start praising ArenaNet like crazy. See if they’ll respond to positive feedback instead.

Experiments!

And remember to be civil or the thread will be locked again.

If they add bloodstone dust to the next mining pick I will definitely not buy it

yorick.1305:

biscuit.7540:

IMO, it’s definitely p2w. It would be fine if it’s only skin and effect but actually gaining more stuff is really bad design no matter the value of the item gained. Bad precedent.

What do you actually ‘win’.

This pick gives a ‘permanent advantage’ which is not the same thing as ‘winning’ something in-game.

P2Win means the ability to get more with gem store item that normal person can get by playing.

That wasn’t the case with unlimited tools since you would pay way more for just the fact that you don’t have to replace them, but getting extra things just because you bought it in gem store is seriously P2W as standards say and I fear we will see more of it.

Theundersigned.4761:

What about axes and sickles? How much longer until they get a extra feature?

And what if ArenaNet added a unique sprocket-like item for each tool? Like, the molten tools: …some kind of molten thingy. Plant-ish tools: Pristine toxic spores and stuff. Each individual tool skin has a chance to get a single specific item. So, the logical money maker here would be to get one of each. I personally wouldn’t be surprised if it happened at this point.

On a scale from 1-10, how mad would you be?

For its: 10 – Painful, burning DISASTER!

Still those items would give players normal advantage and player who didn’t bought them would be in worse position. (coming from person who has 11 sets of unlimited gathering tools).

Justice.3608:

Meh its the same as Ascended/Legendaries.

You will all learn to deal with it.

Dealing with it won’t fix the problem.

Stop blindly accepting everything you’re given and take a stand.

Shakkara.2641:

XacTactX summarized it as follows:

These are the main reasons why people dislike the new pick:

1. P2W giving out free crafting materials, this is more than the 0c cost per gather on infinite tools.
2. Gear treadmill for infinite gathering items that cost real $$$.
3. No prior warning about having old gathering tools made obsolete.

Not much more to add. Eagerly awaiting Anet reply on this situation.

3. No prior warning about having old gathering tools made obsolete.
Well you could have seen that one coming. Every item they put in the gem-store they try be more appealing then the also one. Is it not in stats then it is in looks.

What I find interesting is that it takes something like this to get people mad. I have been complaining about how the gem-store focus effects the game for a very long time and recently made a topic about it. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3581283

It always effects some part of the game. Real P2W (that this pick is not.. I think the infinitive SAB coin was much more P2W then this, as well as the vote booster was a form of P2W) will effect the combat in a negative way.

Much of what we did see in the gem-store before effect the more RP elements of the game (RP not referring to being a RP player but playing the RP elements, like collecting mini’s and stuff).

Now this pick effects the grinding game-play element in a way. So people who like to grind a lot get effected by this.

GW2 is a RPG meaning it has all types of game-play in it and so a gem-store will always effect a part of the game. They should have simply gone for selling expansions to generate income in stead of selling gems but as long as people are foolish enough to buy in-game items for money you will keep having this problem.

They might have seen sales dropping because they scared away the fluff / RP people (or teched them to not buy anymore) so now they are maybe coming for the grinders? And then later they come for the combat people and then they close there doors? I don’t know? Could be a good way of squeezing out money. You don’t know if Ncsoft has long-term plants for this game or just wants to squeeze out as much as they can and then move on but with a micro-transaction based model thats a very possible scenario.

Septemptus.7164:

yorick.1305:

biscuit.7540:

IMO, it’s definitely p2w. It would be fine if it’s only skin and effect but actually gaining more stuff is really bad design no matter the value of the item gained. Bad precedent.

What do you actually ‘win’.

This pick gives a ‘permanent advantage’ which is not the same thing as ‘winning’ something in-game.

P2Win means the ability to get more with gem store item that normal person can get by playing.

That wasn’t the case with unlimited tools since you would pay way more for just the fact that you don’t have to replace them, but getting extra things just because you bought it in gem store is seriously P2W as standards say and I fear we will see more of it.

It does not matter if it’s P2W. It effects the game (like the whole focus on the gem-store does) thats the problem.

From a combat viewpoint this is not P2W because it won’t help you getting a kill. From grinders viewpoint it is because he wants that item he can now not get (in a similar way) without having to buy an pick and for an RP players thats the same for a mini in the gem-store because he can’t get the mini in the game itself.

It just depends what part of the game has your preference how it effects you.

Devata.6589:

I think the infinitive SAB coin was much more P2W then this, as well as the vote booster was a form of P2W) will effect the combat in a negative way.

Oddly enough I was extremely mad at the SAB-Coin at first (they made it much harder to get 1-UPs, the second world was filled with insta-kill-traps and tribulation mode sucked your lifes away like a vacuum) but I changed my mind when I saw Josh Foremans (the SAB designer) posts explaining his views on the matter.

Unfoutunately they seem to ignore all complaints on the new pickaxe, which IMHO is a terrible course of actions, regardless of whether the complaints are justified or not.

Devata.6589:

They should have simply gone for selling expansions to generate income in stead of selling gems but as long as people are foolish enough to buy in-game items for money you will keep having this problem.

The gem shop isn’ t inherently bad, there are lots of items I approve of (bank space, character slots, finishers, toys, etc.) and A-Net has to earn money some way or another.

What I don’t approve of is vertical progression, especially on gem store items.

I fear A-Net heavily underestimated the long term effects of short-changing their customers, (because thats essentially what they did to everyone who bought previous tools) and it will hurt them (and by extension, the players) in the long run.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Anet allows you to buy gold.

With the same amount of cash you’d spend on a pick that nets you a few extra sprockets, you could instead get gold and buy a million sprockets.

Simple math makes everyone in this thread a fool.

People talking about a “dangerous precedent” need to open their eyes.

We have always been on our gear treadmill….. we have a gold buying system in place… and you can buy the most prestigious items in the game (legendaries) with gold.

You knew all of this when you started playing.

No gear treadmill, no grind, with the gem store only selling cosmetic items, that was the manifesto when WE bought, or I wouldn’t have. You cannot string worlds together, call facts, and not expect to get corrected when you are incorrect.

Aidenwolf.5964:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Anet allows you to buy gold.

With the same amount of cash you’d spend on a pick that nets you a few extra sprockets, you could instead get gold and buy a million sprockets.

Simple math makes everyone in this thread a fool.

People talking about a “dangerous precedent” need to open their eyes.

We have always been on our gear treadmill….. we have a gold buying system in place… and you can buy the most prestigious items in the game (legendaries) with gold.

You knew all of this when you started playing.

No gear treadmill, no grind, with the gem store only selling cosmetic items, that was the manifesto when WE bought, or I wouldn’t have. You cannot string worlds together, call facts, and not expect to get corrected when you are incorrect.

The manifesto was a lie bro… Just like Santa Claus

Septemptus.7164:

yorick.1305:

biscuit.7540:

IMO, it’s definitely p2w. It would be fine if it’s only skin and effect but actually gaining more stuff is really bad design no matter the value of the item gained. Bad precedent.

What do you actually ‘win’.

This pick gives a ‘permanent advantage’ which is not the same thing as ‘winning’ something in-game.

P2Win means the ability to get more with gem store item that normal person can get by playing.

That wasn’t the case with unlimited tools since you would pay way more for just the fact that you don’t have to replace them, but getting extra things just because you bought it in gem store is seriously P2W as standards say and I fear we will see more of it.

First. I agree with the anti-pick sentiment on here np there.

Your description is p2 ‘get better items than somebody else’. Not the same as entering an arena/pvp tourney and ‘paying’ to win it, to finish 1st.

This is what I meant, just a different context.

I do feel cheated.

• I bought the old set just a couple of weeks ago when it was on sale because I thought that buying the whole set was the only way to get all tools (which I liked) at the same time. So the argument of “you had it before anyone else did” doesn’t really work for me.
• I remember the “Last pick you’ll ever need!” slogan. No, the smartphone analogy isn’t viable because a game is not real world where you have virtually limited resources and the money you spend today is what makes it possible to develop the next generation item. In a game, it’s a Word of God and a couple of clicks to introduce a new material or to alter supply (and demand). So the “generic smartphone analogy” is a neat but shallow argument which is based on the false assumption that real-world economy is identical to game-world economy.
• Yes, I did buy them at a discounted price, but would’ve I bought them should I had known of a new, better pick? That creates a dangerous precedent where a player can wait for a better product instead of buying the current one, resulting in a loss of gems at the moment. Make it happen more often – and you may run out of buyers at all, which will start killing the game simply because everyone’s waiting for something better.

I agree with Lishtenbird.

Most people will delay buying until they know they are getting the best deal and can afford it.

Anet, since this playerbase loves sprockets so much, if I were you, I would ensure that there is no shortage of sprockets in the Trading House. I dunno how, maybe add sprockets into the table of things that can drop when you mine ore with both Gemstore and regular types of pickaxes…and do this for all extra things that come with future Gemstore gathering tools.

Personally, I delete my sprockets as I have no use for them and would rather have a chance at an extra gem or an extra ore.

Lisa.