Guild Wars 2

chemiclord.3978:

Devata.6589:

chemiclord.3978:

Devata wants a traditional expansion model.

Feel free to cut out the rest of his/her meandering posts; it’s all flimsy rationalization.

I want that because the micro-transaction based model is messing with the game.

The rest of the post is telling why or / and how it is doing that..

And you have yet to explain how changing to an expansion model changes the company’s behavior outside of, “Because I say it will.” A lazy developers who cranks out cheap content isn’t going to become a nose to the grindstone publisher looking to studiously create quality content because they’ve switched production model. They’ll produce lazy, cheap expansions.

I say that when they focus on micro-transactions they will have to turn to this sort of things. Else they don’t sell enough gems. With a focus on expansions at least the main incentive to to that is gone.

I never said they will but when the incentive it gone then maybe they will. Now they pretty much have to do these things. If they want to sell expansions quality is more important so in a way the incentive to create quality even go’s up.

I don’t think they are lazy developers.

Then there is no problem with a gem store, because the quality will come through their updates.

Again, the “problem” is not the gem store. The problem is that you don’t think the quality of the content is there. That quality will not magically appear with a change in revenue stream except in your own head.

The “problem” is you have a bias towards boxed expansions, and it’s tainting your judgement of anything that does meet your narrow wants.

chemiclord.3978:

Then there is no problem with a gem store, because the quality will come through their updates.

Again, the “problem” is not the gem store. The problem is that you don’t think the quality of the content is there. That quality will not magically appear with a change in revenue stream except in your own head.

The “problem” is you have a bias towards boxed expansions, and it’s tainting your judgement of anything that does meet your narrow wants.

The quality of a product. I am mainly talking about game-play elements. Define quality?
There is a gold-grind in this game. The gold-grind helps to generate income by the cash-shop because people are then more likely to buy gold.

Most mini’s are in the cash-shop that means they are not in the game-world. So the game-play element of collecting mini’s in the world is gone because of that.

Want to get them anyway, there is the gold-grind again.

Same for many skins or dye-colors.. Why are they mainly general drops of unidentified dyes? Why not put a specific color in a specific place so people can do that content to hunt down that color? Maybe because then people can get colors they like that way? Now the best way to get the color you want is again grinding gold. So gold is everything and that is important for the cash-shop.

There are some specific colors available.. in the cash-shop. Want them? Grind gold or buy it with cash.

You pretty much have to be blind to not see the link.

If i’m ‘bias’ towards boxed expansions then thats because of you see these sort of things in micro-transaction focused games. I don’t want it just for the fun of having that. I want that because of these sort of things.

Anyway, try to insult as much as you want. The fact that you are now coming with these sort of things not trying to disprove what I say about missing game-play elements and gold-grind (can’t really disprove it, it’s there) proves enough by itself.

And no we can’t know for sure that it would stop without because nobody can look in the future. But now they are pretty much forced to do these sort of things and that would be gone. So maybe if they are a company that wants to deliver a great game then it will change. I guess I still have that much of trust in them. You don’t it seems.

I’m not disproving anything because you’ve offered nothing to disprove. And if I was insulting you, believe me, there’d be little doubt. You’re a smart person, but with these massive blinders on that you refuse to take off.

Your entire problem has NOTHING to do with the gem store. There are items you want that you don’t want to have to pay for. You want them for free. And you think, “Oh, if we only had a traditional expansion model, all this stuff in the store would be in game!”

Or is it “quick and dirty” development that’s your problem? I can never tell, your rationalizations change so frequently it’s hard to keep up sometimes.

You want expansions. Nothing else is acceptable to you. That’s all there is to it.

Devata.6589:

chemiclord.3978:

Then there is no problem with a gem store, because the quality will come through their updates.

Again, the “problem” is not the gem store. The problem is that you don’t think the quality of the content is there. That quality will not magically appear with a change in revenue stream except in your own head.

The “problem” is you have a bias towards boxed expansions, and it’s tainting your judgement of anything that does meet your narrow wants.

The quality of a product. I am mainly talking about game-play elements. Define quality?
There is a gold-grind in this game. The gold-grind helps to generate income by the cash-shop because people are then more likely to buy gold.

Most mini’s are in the cash-shop that means they are not in the game-world. So the game-play element of collecting mini’s in the world is gone because of that.

Want to get them anyway, there is the gold-grind again.

Same for many skins or dye-colors.. Why are they mainly general drops of unidentified dyes? Why not put a specific color in a specific place so people can do that content to hunt down that color? Maybe because then people can get colors they like that way? Now the best way to get the color you want is again grinding gold. So gold is everything and that is important for the cash-shop.

There are some specific colors available.. in the cash-shop. Want them? Grind gold or buy it with cash.

You pretty much have to be blind to not see the link.

If i’m ‘bias’ towards boxed expansions then thats because of you see these sort of things in micro-transaction focused games. I don’t want it just for the fun of having that. I want that because of these sort of things.

Anyway, try to insult as much as you want. The fact that you are now coming with these sort of things not trying to disprove what I say about missing game-play elements and gold-grind (can’t really disprove it, it’s there) proves enough by itself.

And no we can’t know for sure that it would stop without because nobody can look in the future. But now they are pretty much forced to do these sort of things and that would be gone. So maybe if they are a company that wants to deliver a great game then it will change. I guess I still have that much of trust in them. You don’t it seems.

Here’s what I think you’re overlooking. You complain about having to “grind for gold.” However, what you’re asking for instead is to have to “grind for items.”

The benefit of having to “grind for gold” is that one can do it by playing in whatever they want to play. If, for example, I want one of the cash shop minis, I can actually PvP enough, or WvW enough, or farm mats enough, or whatever I chose as my gold-making method to obtain that mini.

Grinding for an item forces players to play in a style they might not like just to obtain that item.

I’ll take grinding for gold any day of the week, since I can do it while simply playing the game.

As an example, while the Wintersday Festival was going on, II made well over 100 gold with my level 50 character in two weeks by doing nothing but play in the Wintersday Mayhem game. I was doing what I wanted when I wanted to do it, and I benefitted monetarily for it. With that money, I was able to get both of my professions up to 400 and still have money left over.

chemiclord.3978:

I’m not disproving anything because you’ve offered nothing to disprove. And if I was insulting you, believe me, there’d be little doubt. You’re a smart person, but with these massive blinders on that you refuse to take off.

Your entire problem has NOTHING to do with the gem store. There are items you want that you don’t want to have to pay for. You want them for free. And you think, “Oh, if we only had a traditional expansion model, all this stuff in the store would be in game!”

Or is it “quick and dirty” development that’s your problem? I can never tell, your rationalizations change so frequently it’s hard to keep up sometimes.

You want expansions. Nothing else is acceptable to you. That’s all there is to it.

No I don’t want them for free, not in a pay way and not in a no effort in-game way. I am willing to pay for it (you do understand that I expect an expansion to cost money) and I WANT to do effort for it in-game.

That effort is my game-play. I love to go into the world to find rare mini’s and work to get them. If i’m a ranger I love to search for rare or special looking pets. I don’t want to get them handed to me and I don’t want to grind gold for them because I think thats boring but I want to go into the world to get them (and that may be very hard) because that is one of the things that I like to to in a MMORPG. That is my type of game-play. For some it might be getting high gear items or sPvP for me it’s those sort of things.

I do hope that if they use expansions they would indeed change that. Knowing it for sure you never do but they are now forced to try and get people to buy gems because thats how they generate there income. If they are not forced to do that anymore because they generate income with regular expansions then they are more likely to indeed change that. Do I know for sure they will? No. Do I expect they will? Yes because I do still have that much trust in them.

The “quick and dirty” is something else. I keep running into things that bordered me in this game and at some point I figured out what where the root causes for those things.

Biggest was being caused by a focus on micro-transaction (like the once talked about here).

Other seem to be related to “quick and dirty” development and yet other to doing thinks different pure for the sake of doing it different. Stuff discussed here has many to do with the cash-shop focus.

And other things are acceptable to me. But it also has to be possible and those thinks that I want will likely mean less cash-shop sales what will not work for them if they use that to generate there main income.
I don’t want expansions I want those things I said but the one of the only ways to make that possible is if they use expansions to generate income in stead of micro-transactions.

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

chemiclord.3978:

Then there is no problem with a gem store, because the quality will come through their updates.

Again, the “problem” is not the gem store. The problem is that you don’t think the quality of the content is there. That quality will not magically appear with a change in revenue stream except in your own head.

The “problem” is you have a bias towards boxed expansions, and it’s tainting your judgement of anything that does meet your narrow wants.

The quality of a product. I am mainly talking about game-play elements. Define quality?
There is a gold-grind in this game. The gold-grind helps to generate income by the cash-shop because people are then more likely to buy gold.

Most mini’s are in the cash-shop that means they are not in the game-world. So the game-play element of collecting mini’s in the world is gone because of that.

Want to get them anyway, there is the gold-grind again.

Same for many skins or dye-colors.. Why are they mainly general drops of unidentified dyes? Why not put a specific color in a specific place so people can do that content to hunt down that color? Maybe because then people can get colors they like that way? Now the best way to get the color you want is again grinding gold. So gold is everything and that is important for the cash-shop.

There are some specific colors available.. in the cash-shop. Want them? Grind gold or buy it with cash.

You pretty much have to be blind to not see the link.

If i’m ‘bias’ towards boxed expansions then thats because of you see these sort of things in micro-transaction focused games. I don’t want it just for the fun of having that. I want that because of these sort of things.

Anyway, try to insult as much as you want. The fact that you are now coming with these sort of things not trying to disprove what I say about missing game-play elements and gold-grind (can’t really disprove it, it’s there) proves enough by itself.

And no we can’t know for sure that it would stop without because nobody can look in the future. But now they are pretty much forced to do these sort of things and that would be gone. So maybe if they are a company that wants to deliver a great game then it will change. I guess I still have that much of trust in them. You don’t it seems.

Here’s what I think you’re overlooking. You complain about having to “grind for gold.” However, what you’re asking for instead is to have to “grind for items.”

The benefit of having to “grind for gold” is that one can do it by playing in whatever they want to play. If, for example, I want one of the cash shop minis, I can actually PvP enough, or WvW enough, or farm mats enough, or whatever I chose as my gold-making method to obtain that mini.

Grinding for an item forces players to play in a style they might not like just to obtain that item.

I’ll take grinding for gold any day of the week, since I can do it while simply playing the game.

As an example, while the Wintersday Festival was going on, II made well over 100 gold with my level 50 character in two weeks by doing nothing but play in the Wintersday Mayhem game. I was doing what I wanted when I wanted to do it, and I benefitted monetarily for it. With that money, I was able to get both of my professions up to 400 and still have money left over.

When you go for an item it’s called farming. But indeed what I say is a change from having to grind for gold to ‘farming’ for the item. When it’s an absolute drop it’s not farming but in cases it requires multiple go’s then yes it’s farming.

What you are missing here is that exactly that is what I like to do. Just like you like to do Wintersday Mayhem I like to go into the world to get (or farm) those items.

However the idea that in my case it would not allow you to do what you want to do and grind gold that way is not correct.

As long as the items are not account bound (some will be many won’t be.. thats already the case) they will end up on the trading post so you can still buy them with the gold you did grind while doing Wintersday Mayhem (or whatever way you like to grind the gold).

What I want would not take that option (your preferred game-play) away from you. The way it is now does take my game-play away from me (and people like me).

Devata.6589:

When you go for an item it’s called farming. But indeed what I say is a change from having to grind for gold to ‘farming’ for the item. When it’s an absolute drop it’s not farming but in cases it requires multiple go’s then yes it’s farming.

What you are missing here is that exactly that is what I like to do. Just like you like to do Wintersday Mayhem I like to go into the world to get (or farm) those items.

However the idea that in my case it would not allow you to do what you want to do and grind gold that way is not correct.

As long as the items are not account bound (some will be many won’t be.. thats already the case) they will end up on the trading post so you can still buy them with the gold you did grind while doing Wintersday Mayhem (or whatever way you like to grind the gold).

What I want would not take that option (your preferred game-play) away from you. The way it is now does take my game-play away from me (and people like me).

I don’t particularly care what you call it. Farming or grinding. For me, if I have to fight the same thing over and over again for the chance to get a specific item, I consider it a grind. You’re arguing verbiage.

If you are, in fact, talking about expansion style of a game, then what you are looking for does greatly impact me. I don’t want to pay for an expansion. I want to pay for those little convenience items as I go. I don’t want to feel compelled to shell out $60 to gain access to a new area, new class, new levels (talk about Pay to Win), etc. I don’t wish to feel pigeonholes into having to buy something just to continue playing the game. Right now I can pay for what I want and don’t have to pay for things I don’t want. Your idea takes that away.

The gem shop style was a known function of the game before the game was playable. It was also said that box expansions were not their focus. If that is your style of play, then you bought this game knowing it wasn’t what you wanted. Changing the game to fit your wants would be a bad idea for those of us that bought the game knowing that they’d never have to buy another box to continue playing the game.

I like the cash shop. I have no problem with it, and I don’t view it negatively at all. I don’t have a problem with being able to get what I want using gold as the common currency. I actually like the fact that I can go out and find stuff that I don’t really want, sell those items for gold, and use that gold to buy what I do want.

At the end of the day, you are merely arguing how the gem show doesn’t work for you. It has nothing to do with how it doesn’t work in general. Since there are a multitude of games out there that use a cash shop, and most of these other games offer items that are much more necessary than GW2, GW2 does a great job with their cash shop.

TChalla.7146:

I don’t particularly care what you call it. Farming or grinding. For me, if I have to fight the same thing over and over again for the chance to get a specific item, I consider it a grind. You’re arguing verbiage.

That was a 9 words sentence just so you know why I would be talking about farming in the rest of the comment not grinding. Because it’s defined different. Nothing more nothing less.

TChalla.7146:

If you are, in fact, talking about expansion style of a game, then what you are looking for does greatly impact me. I don’t want to pay for an expansion. I want to pay for those little convenience items as I go. I don’t want to feel compelled to shell out $60 to gain access to a new area, new class, new levels (talk about Pay to Win), etc. I don’t wish to feel pigeonholes into having to buy something just to continue playing the game. Right now I can pay for what I want and don’t have to pay for things I don’t want. Your idea takes that away.

I was referring to what you said about how you like to do a specific things to grind gold and how the ability to farm the item itself would change your game-play. It doesn’t. Now you talk about the expansion-based model. Yes if you are not willing to pay for a chunk of content / an expansion that does effect you indeed.
My idea of course does not completely take that away. You can still play the game and the game will likely even get things added you like. But you have no access to some of the those new things. Unless you are willing to pay for that expansion. Thats true.

TChalla.7146:

The gem shop style was a known function of the game before the game was playable. It was also said that box expansions were not their focus. If that is your style of play, then you bought this game knowing it wasn’t what you wanted. Changing the game to fit your wants would be a bad idea for those of us that bought the game knowing that they’d never have to buy another box to continue playing the game.

The gem-shop was known, just as they said they would have expansions (now they say, maybe, maybe not). The focus on it or like you say the idea that box expansions would have no focus was not said! They promoted the game as B2P not as micro-transaction based. It’s B2P + micro-transactions based and mainly micro-transaction based. Looking at GW1 a focus on expansion was a very logical thing to expect.
It’s exactly this reason I did get interested in GW2.

To bad that you have to turn to plain lying here, the conversation was pretty well until here. About them saying it was knows that the cash-shop had a focus (nonsense) and that there was no focus on expansions.. you even said you would not expect an expansion.. Funny because while After release they said they MIGHT never get an expansion that was not knows and they still haven’t said they will not use expansions. So there has never been and still is no reason for you to expect you could buy the game and then play on forever.
Here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack this is the first time they said they might never get an expansion. 3 July 2013 5 months after release.

TChalla.7146:

I like the cash shop. I have no problem with it, and I don’t view it negatively at all. I don’t have a problem with being able to get what I want using gold as the common currency. I actually like the fact that I can go out and find stuff that I don’t really want, sell those items for gold, and use that gold to buy what I do want.

Thats nice for you but thats not so for everybody and if you have a look on the forums or ingame there are a lot of complains about grind. Grind and temporary content seem to be the 2 biggest issue people keep bringing up.

TChalla.7146:

At the end of the day, you are merely arguing how the gem show doesn’t work for you. It has nothing to do with how it doesn’t work in general. Since there are a multitude of games out there that use a cash shop, and most of these other games offer items that are much more necessary than GW2, GW2 does a great job with their cash shop.

I say how the focus on the cash-shop does work in general and how it does effect me. Of course it depends on your game-play how it effects you. The question if other cash-shops are worse or not is not really interesting, that will not change the way this one works.

Devata.6589:

snip

You completely miss the point. I don’t consider what I do grinding for gold. I consider what I do getting gold for simply doing what I want to do. The gold is simply a bonus for me, and I can use that gold to do what I want to do with it. It’s not grinding. It’s playing the game. I’m not in a hurry for the gold. It just shows up.

In other words, I’m enjoying the game the way it was intended to be enjoyed. The only grind you have is what you make of it. Pretty much every activity in the game gets you gold. There are several modes to gain that gold. Choose one, get the gold and buy what you want. I don’t understand why being pigeon-holed into a style of play is better form.

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

snip

You completely miss the point. I don’t consider what I do grinding for gold. I consider what I do getting gold for simply doing what I want to do. The gold is simply a bonus for me, and I can use that gold to do what I want to do with it. It’s not grinding. It’s playing the game. I’m not in a hurry for the gold. It just shows up.

In other words, I’m enjoying the game the way it was intended to be enjoyed. The only grind you have is what you make of it. Pretty much every activity in the game gets you gold. There are several modes to gain that gold. Choose one, get the gold and buy what you want. I don’t understand why being pigeon-holed into a style of play is better form.

I know what you mean but as soon as you do it to get gold it becomes grinding and we where talking about how to get an item I think. If you are just doing it for fun and you earn money along the way no then it’s not grinding. I get that.

Again, it’s not being pigeon-holed into a style of play because you can still get it with gold. But if you like to go for items that way.. if that is your preferred game-play (it isn’t yours it is mine) then you are not being pigeon-holed into something you do what you like.

You like to do some things and those things might get you some money. What I like to do is going for those items.

I really leave it by that. It’s to detailed into game-play styles and because of that it’s getting off topic. Let them go on about the Watchwork Pick itself.

Devata.6589:

To bad that you have to turn to plain lying here, the conversation was pretty well until here. About them saying it was knows that the cash-shop had a focus (nonsense) and that there was no focus on expansions.. you even said you would not expect an expansion.. Funny because while After release they said they MIGHT never get an expansion that was not knows and they still haven’t said they will not use expansions. So there has never been and still is no reason for you to expect you could buy the game and then play on forever.
Here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack this is the first time they said they might never get an expansion. 3 July 2013 5 months after release.

By the way, calling me a liar is bad form. Look here and look at the date.

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/news-mmo/guild-wars-2-no-expansions.html

Your move.

TChalla — There are a lot of people who simply can’t afford this pick; regardless of how they pay -gold or real cash-. Some people only get a few hours over the weekend; some have a tight budget can’t spend more than they already spent buying the account! Some hack away and buy what they can and must and never have more than 1-2 gold. They should still be able to gather those thingies if that is what they wan’t to dedicate that one-two day towards! So they wont get any of the unlimited gathering tools since a vendor-stack will last them 2 weeks! I don’t get why they shouldn’t be able to pick up a 100-cog-picks — for a few silver more — that will also have a shot at the cog-thingies. You can’t compare this to skins or anything else in the shop!
If you go out and kill a god and get a hat made out of pure awesome; the people I mentioned wont ever be able to do that! They won’t get the title or top-notch in each slot! You would have earned that by the hours at an end you have invested; and ending up with all that bling is yours! And you had fun along the way – I guess! – the pick does not involve any of that and the criteria is that you have money in the bank or play almost each day! They bought an account and should not be kept from crafting from what they have gathered!

his can’t be such a big issue for anyone to wrap their thoughts around!

So please don’t say “they can buy this and that material from the TP!” – how about no! Some people might enjoy gathering and crafting – own machine all the way sort of people – isn’t that a viable option? Shouldn’t it be — to everyone?! We can’t just throw around words like “subjective” and go “don’t tell me how to play” and then force others to use means and methods that is in direct conflict with what they consider “a fun GW session looks like”

— forgot to add, and it felt like a strong argument In my head :-) — EDIT--

Prices of the materials will also go up and down – and imagine someone who get play 2-3 hours a week to take the ups and downs into account as well! Sure you can get the cogs by other means; but with 2-3 hours here and there; that would take months! – He / she just want to log on and wack away at nodes until they have enough to make a new “wayhey-some-some-random” — this is not a huge deal, I am sure; not before you need a different and new tool each month!

My brother is a single father of 3 that work 50 hour a week and he does not want to be in your guild, run any dungeon, flip TP deals or any of that; 2-3 hours on saturday and 2 hours mid week at best is what he gets and would much rather buy a new Lego-game to the xbox and play with his kids than spending the same amount on that pick! A couple of siver per stack and he takes off and does his thing!

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

To bad that you have to turn to plain lying here, the conversation was pretty well until here. About them saying it was knows that the cash-shop had a focus (nonsense) and that there was no focus on expansions.. you even said you would not expect an expansion.. Funny because while After release they said they MIGHT never get an expansion that was not knows and they still haven’t said they will not use expansions. So there has never been and still is no reason for you to expect you could buy the game and then play on forever.
Here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack this is the first time they said they might never get an expansion. 3 July 2013 5 months after release.

By the way, calling me a liar is bad form. Look here and look at the date.

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/news-mmo/guild-wars-2-no-expansions.html

Your move.

The link talks about the stand alone expansion model.

killcannon.2576:

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

To bad that you have to turn to plain lying here, the conversation was pretty well until here. About them saying it was knows that the cash-shop had a focus (nonsense) and that there was no focus on expansions.. you even said you would not expect an expansion.. Funny because while After release they said they MIGHT never get an expansion that was not knows and they still haven’t said they will not use expansions. So there has never been and still is no reason for you to expect you could buy the game and then play on forever.
Here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack this is the first time they said they might never get an expansion. 3 July 2013 5 months after release.

By the way, calling me a liar is bad form. Look here and look at the date.

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/news-mmo/guild-wars-2-no-expansions.html

Your move.

The link talks about the stand alone expansion model.

You’re right… which as far as I can tell is exactly what we’re talking about here. Unless I’m completely missing the point of an expansion.

TChalla.7146:

killcannon.2576:

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

To bad that you have to turn to plain lying here, the conversation was pretty well until here. About them saying it was knows that the cash-shop had a focus (nonsense) and that there was no focus on expansions.. you even said you would not expect an expansion.. Funny because while After release they said they MIGHT never get an expansion that was not knows and they still haven’t said they will not use expansions. So there has never been and still is no reason for you to expect you could buy the game and then play on forever.
Here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack this is the first time they said they might never get an expansion. 3 July 2013 5 months after release.

By the way, calling me a liar is bad form. Look here and look at the date.

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/news-mmo/guild-wars-2-no-expansions.html

Your move.

The link talks about the stand alone expansion model.

You’re right… which as far as I can tell is exactly what we’re talking about here. Unless I’m completely missing the point of an expansion.

A stand alone expansion model would preclude the need to own the original GW2 game. In other words, it would just release almost an entire new game.

For example: I could just buy the expansion GW2: When Bronies Attack and play the content included in that expansion and not have to own the original game. It would divide the player base quite a bit more than a normal expansion model.

killcannon.2576:

TChalla.7146:

killcannon.2576:

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

To bad that you have to turn to plain lying here, the conversation was pretty well until here. About them saying it was knows that the cash-shop had a focus (nonsense) and that there was no focus on expansions.. you even said you would not expect an expansion.. Funny because while After release they said they MIGHT never get an expansion that was not knows and they still haven’t said they will not use expansions. So there has never been and still is no reason for you to expect you could buy the game and then play on forever.
Here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack this is the first time they said they might never get an expansion. 3 July 2013 5 months after release.

By the way, calling me a liar is bad form. Look here and look at the date.

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/news-mmo/guild-wars-2-no-expansions.html

Your move.

The link talks about the stand alone expansion model.

You’re right… which as far as I can tell is exactly what we’re talking about here. Unless I’m completely missing the point of an expansion.

A stand alone expansion model would preclude the need to own the original GW2 game. In other words, it would just release almost an entire new game.

For example: I could just buy the expansion GW2: When Bronies Attack and play the content included in that expansion and not have to own the original game. It would divide the player base quite a bit more than a normal expansion model.

Then I’m still confused. What other kind of expansion would you be referring?

TChalla.7146:

Then I’m still confused. What other kind of expansion would you be referring?

The traditional expansion model made popular by World of Warcraft; where you needed the base game to play Burning Crusade… needed both to play Wrath of the Lich King… needed all three to play Cataclysm… etc…

chemiclord.3978:

TChalla.7146:

Then I’m still confused. What other kind of expansion would you be referring?

The traditional expansion model made popular by World of Warcraft; where you needed the base game to play Burning Crusade… needed both to play Wrath of the Lich King… needed all three to play Cataclysm… etc…

It was “popular” way before WoW in other game genres besides the MMO.

killcannon.2576:

chemiclord.3978:

TChalla.7146:

Then I’m still confused. What other kind of expansion would you be referring?

The traditional expansion model made popular by World of Warcraft; where you needed the base game to play Burning Crusade… needed both to play Wrath of the Lich King… needed all three to play Cataclysm… etc…

It was “popular” way before WoW in other game genres besides the MMO.

Yes, but it was the one that made it popular in THIS genre. I shouldn’t have neglected Everquest, though. They did the same thing.

I honestly think the major reason they don’t want to expand the world is because they feel they’re having too much trouble keeping the world filled as it is. They have this vision of every zone filled with players doing something.

I wish I knew what reality they are living in, because that has NEVER been how MMOs players do things. They are in a zone long enough to level out of it or get to their instance of choice. That’s how it’s always been, and trying to change that conditioning is proving to be a massive failure.

chemiclord.3978:

TChalla.7146:

Then I’m still confused. What other kind of expansion would you be referring?

The traditional expansion model made popular by World of Warcraft; where you needed the base game to play Burning Crusade… needed both to play Wrath of the Lich King… needed all three to play Cataclysm… etc…

Then I totally misunderstood the premise of that article when it first came out. My bad I suppose. Being called a liar irritates me to no end, though.

And for the record, I didn’t much care for the WoW model of expansions either. To feel like you have to buy any expansion to be competitive on any front sucks. In WoW, it was even worse, since there was already a subscription for the game. If I was forced to buy an expansion for a new level cap, I’d be pretty kitten ticked off.

The way the system is currently (and from the look of it, the way they plan it currently) is that any expansion content is given freely, which includes an undisclosed big content patch in a few months, which is free to everyone. The gem store allows for this (along with people still buying the original game), and I love that about the system. In short, the gem store is fine as it is.

My point still stands.

Devata.6589:

Still like I said. for enough people going for the fluff is game-play they like. So the fact thats it’s ‘not needed’ does not really care. I would love to see fun-crafts in GW2. Crafts where you can make fun items.. not items you need just fun. It’s a type of game-play.

We do agree on this. I’d like to see crafts used for more than making somewhat-cheap armor for alts and friends.

I did not play a lot of GW1 but as far as I did I think there was less need for gold-grind.

Hehe . . . hahaha . . .

No, please, let’s not go into it. It wasn’t “gold” grind, but there were a lot of other stuff to be ground for. Or gold grinding to afford to buy it off other people. And yes, most of the time it was minis, consumable boosters, rare skins, or specific items such as Armbraces.

(You know, when people weren’t trading those as currency.)

The problem is not so much that you can convert gold but they way they try you to buy it. If they for example would put mini’s in the game-world (of course now they can’t because it’s how they make money) and also many weapons and skins so you can get them in specific places then you can so specific content to get them. Farm the items.

Again, not that different than Guild Wars 1. Froggy Staffs, Dragon scythes, Eternal Swords/Shields, Storm Bows, Icy Dragon Swords . . . there’s a list of items which either still are desired or once were high-ticket items. Including the “Denravi Sword” which was a quickly, swiftly-removed item which was no longer available but was not fully removed. Was pretty valuable for a time.

Now in many cases you can’t because it’s world drops so it becomes a gold-grind. Thats one of the problems.

Glacial Stones, Destroyer Cores, Golden Rin Relics, Diessa Chalices, Ectoplasm, and Obsidian Shards all were items which were world drops. Some of them only available in one location and in one method alone of dropping. In the case of Golden Rin Relics and Diessa Chalices, I am understanding they dropped in the SAME place but under different circumstances.

So, like I keep saying – none of this is new ground for people who played the first game. Just be glad you don’t have to acquire lots of gold/platinum for an ugly as sin armor for Hall of Monument points

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

none of this is new ground for people who played the first game. Just be glad you don’t have to acquire lots of gold/platinum for an ugly as sin armor for Hall of Monument points

Too bad I only found out recently.
But better later than never, eh?
Adios.

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

To bad that you have to turn to plain lying here, the conversation was pretty well until here. About them saying it was knows that the cash-shop had a focus (nonsense) and that there was no focus on expansions.. you even said you would not expect an expansion.. Funny because while After release they said they MIGHT never get an expansion that was not knows and they still haven’t said they will not use expansions. So there has never been and still is no reason for you to expect you could buy the game and then play on forever.
Here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack this is the first time they said they might never get an expansion. 3 July 2013 5 months after release.

By the way, calling me a liar is bad form. Look here and look at the date.

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/news-mmo/guild-wars-2-no-expansions.html

Your move.

Thats about the “standalone expansion model” I knew that and was not expecting that in GW2, I was expecting normal expansions.

The part of no retail expansions is what the writer makes of it but it’s not what Eric Flannum says, Eric Flannum even says the cash-shop will be similar to GW1’s.

Here is an article that is about the same subject as yours:
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/15/guild-wars-2-to-avoid-retail-mmo-expansion-model/
Read the update! The interviewer in your article made that same mistake.

In this interview is being said what I also expected: http://www.videogamer.com/news/guild_wars_2_expansions_a_sure_thing_says_arenanet_2.html
Yes they will have an cash-shop to generate income but “the upcoming MMORPG from ArenaNet, will be supported with retail expansions, design lead Eric Flannum has confirmed to VideoGamer.com.” and “We support ourselves with micro-transactions and expansions. So we’ll have retail expansions for sure,”.

SO yes I was expecting a cash-shop and I expected them to try and earn money that way for future development but I was also expecting them to mainly support the game by expansions.

Can we now leave this discussion alone or move more on-topic again.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Glacial Stones, Destroyer Cores, Golden Rin Relics, Diessa Chalices, Ectoplasm, and Obsidian Shards all were items which were world drops. Some of them only available in one location and in one method alone of dropping. In the case of Golden Rin Relics and Diessa Chalices, I am understanding they dropped in the SAME place but under different circumstances.

Will not go into everything because it’s to off-topic but I have a feeling you not 100% understand me. Yes there was gold-grind but at the same time usually you could go for specific items or mats. I talked about world loot drops and you give this example (thats why I think you misunderstood me). But thats exactly how I expect it to be. It’s not a world loot drop. It’s in one location that usually also means the drop change is a little higher (but only in that location). So people can go to that location and farm it.

If I remember correct you would get many mini’s in specific location or by doing specific content. But the birthday ones indeed required trading or gold-grind but at least they would stay available. The ones temporary available where much lower.

Devata.6589:

Will not go into everything because it’s to off-topic but I have a feeling you not 100% understand me.

It’s likely, some terms you use leave me wondering what exactly you mean.

Yes there was gold-grind but at the same time usually you could go for specific items or mats. I talked about world loot drops and you give this example (thats why I think you misunderstood me). But thats exactly how I expect it to be. It’s not a world loot drop. It’s in one location that usually also means the drop change is a little higher (but only in that location). So people can go to that location and farm it.

No, the drop rate was still pretty abysmal unless you were doing solo fighting (so all the loot would get assigned to you) and even then they were somewhat uncommon. It’s analogous to how often Rares drop, only there was not a direct MF%+ you could have in GW1.

I’d rather think world-wide drop would be considerably better than “go to this one postage-stamp of land and camp/farm it”. Especially for a persistent world like GW2 is.

If I remember correct you would get many mini’s in specific location or by doing specific content. But the birthday ones indeed required trading or gold-grind but at least they would stay available. The ones temporary available where much lower.

No. You’re not remembering quite accurately. There was a fraction of minis which were available as drops or chest loot (Mallyx, Peacekeeper, Salma, Black Moa Chick) but there were also several promotional ones which were radically overpriced most times (Kuunvang, Varesh, Grey Giant, etc).

Some of these going undedicated became incredibly expensive. And then there was what someone once called “the big middle finger to collectors” by releasing not one but two exclusive minis in exactly single amounts. (I don’t agree with this since they were gifts to Gaile Grey from content designers for her work as ‘The Frog’.)

But it’s not even just minis which hit that spot of “potentially very expensive”. There were specific skins which only dropped out of dungeons and only out of specific ones. The Icy Dragon Sword (palette swap of Fiery Dragon Sword) was only available off one of approximately 20 monsters in a far corner of a zone in the Shiverpeak Mountains. There was also the Totem Axe and Fan (focus) in another area, but they were less desirable since they were unique items with specific stats. (Totem Axe was more wanted due to the modifiers.)

So, it’s been done before, what you’ve been talking about as open-world loot in a specific place. It is still done now (Final Rest, Cobalt, and many others). It’s just a problem for a persistent world since it breeds farming grounds where more people gravitate rather than spread out and fill areas.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’d rather think world-wide drop would be considerably better than “go to this one postage-stamp of land and camp/farm it”. Especially for a persistent world like GW2 is.

Why? It means people will go into the world doing things collecting them (what I like to do) and they are all in different spots so you can get people all over the place. I would say only for that reason aslone it’s great. It would also remove the need to grind gold.

(Of course any mmo world will get empties after some time, not saying this would completely stop that.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

No. You’re not remembering quite accurately. There was a fraction of minis which were available as drops or chest loot (Mallyx, Peacekeeper, Salma, Black Moa Chick) but there were also several promotional ones which were radically overpriced most times (Kuunvang, Varesh, Grey Giant, etc).

Yeah promotional ones I do not like so much.. Well I don’t mind if the have like 5 mini’s they only give out at game-shows or something but it should stay limited.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

But it’s not even just minis which hit that spot of “potentially very expensive”. There were specific skins which only dropped out of dungeons and only out of specific ones. The Icy Dragon Sword (palette swap of Fiery Dragon Sword) was only available off one of approximately 20 monsters in a far corner of a zone in the Shiverpeak Mountains. There was also the Totem Axe and Fan (focus) in another area, but they were less desirable since they were unique items with specific stats. (Totem Axe was more wanted due to the modifiers.)

When I talk about mini’s you can replace that with skins, colors, whatever, just ‘fun’ items.

That something is expensive is not the problem IF you can also go for it ingame.
“There were specific skins which only dropped out of dungeons and only out of specific ones. "

Yeah that is what I mean with dropping in specific places. That is exactly what I consider fun. Every time you do that dungeon the feeling of will it drop?? And then when it drops that epic feeling that it dropped. Now I don’t even have incentive to do a dungeon. For gold maybe? But thats boring imho..

Having stuff available like that is exactly what I like. For sure those sort of mini’s will be expensive on the TP but at least there is a way to go for them in the game-world and for those who prefer grinding gold that is still an option.

The examples what you describe here is exactly what I mean when I say “in specific places”and what I consider fun.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So, it’s been done before, what you’ve been talking about as open-world loot in a specific place. It is still done now (Final Rest, Cobalt, and many others). It’s just a problem for a persistent world since it breeds farming grounds where more people gravitate rather than spread out and fill areas.

It’s not open-world loot in specific places it’s loot in specific places or open world loot (2 different things). But it’s all in the game-world.

Final Rest is an example of a drop in a specific spot the way I like it. If you want that you can farm shadow behemoth. Small problem there is that it’s time-gated and thats is something so many people do that the TP still gets overflowed with that skin but yeah thats an example of a drop in a specific place. Cobalt is an example of how I would not like it. That is an world drop loot. Drops from many chesses all over the world. If you want that there is not one specific way to go for it but at the same time because it’s all over the place (while being a very rare drop) many people who are not interested in it get it anyway so there will be many of them on the TP, So if you want that the best way to get it is by grinding gold.

Having many items in the world like Final Rest that would be fun.. also in places that are not so obviously things people would just farm like a world boss.

Like if the JP in Kessex Hills has the possibility to drop a bear mini and thats the only place where it can drop, while the Destroyer Harpy’s nearby have the change to drop a special orange color that does not drop anywhere else. Meanwhile for rangers there might be special looking pets they can get and so on and so on. Man I would have fun going all over the world collecting that stuff I want or completing a collection of mini’s. It’s to bad GW2 does not also have the more traditional quest mixed in because those could also be used for special rewards.

Of course there will always be farming grounds, but this would not increase that. Lets say people all started to farm the orange dye because it’s expensive then very fast the price of it will drop so it would not be ideal to all farm in groups. They will find places where they can grind for sure but specific drops would not increase farming grounds.

When, if ever, will we receive a response about this.

Sad to say, but I’m starting to think this game is nearing Free to Play. They seem to be pushing the gem store harder and harder (flamekissed T3 and watch work pick). The lack of response on the latter makes me think that Anet no longer cares if we’re content with the state of the game because they’re readying for a new group of consumers, the FTP gang.

XacTactX.6709:

When, if ever, will we receive a response about this.

I dont think we will. I wonder how long it will stay in the gem store, though.

As much as it pains me to admit it, I have to concur with Wanze. We’ve had plenty of time for ANet to come up with a response by now and still, nothing. That says to me that ANet wants the Watchwork Pick to stay as it is, and it probably will set the trend for future tools. The next unlimited tool to be released will be watched with great interest.

The main thing I’m wondering about now is, if the original tools are re-released, will they also be upgraded to have some special functionality that isn’t available otherwise? It might be a bit of a hard sell for the Molten/Bone Picks if people already have a Watchwork Pick otherwise.

ANet doesn’t need to respond to this because nothing they ever put in their gem store will ever be P2W as long as gold can be converted into gems. If I don’t want to spend X amount of real-world currency to obtain 1,000 gems in order to acquire the new mining pick, I can just convert a sum of my copious amount of stupidly easy to amass gold into gems to get it.

Velimere.7685:

ANet doesn’t need to respond to this because nothing they ever put in their gem store will ever be P2W as long as gold can be converted into gems. If I don’t want to spend X amount of real-world currency to obtain 1,000 gems in order to acquire the new mining pick, I can just convert a sum of my copious amount of stupidly easy to amass gold into gems to get it.

Haha yeah nothing is P2W because you can convert gold to gems. Of course. But everything is a gold-grind. That is already the case.

You know in most games that are very infamous for P2W you can earn the items also in-game. It usually just takes a long boring grind.

chemiclord.3978:

The only precedent that has been set is that there is an mining pick that can give you sprockets with each strike.

No. The precedent that it sets is that there is a mining pick in the store that is undeniably better than one previously sold in the same store.

(Undeniably better – posesses exact same qualities, but also offers something in addition to that)

Ayrilana.1396:

Also please explain how buying gems with your own gold is using someone else’s money?

Almost every gem in game has been bought with a real cash. When you buy a gem for in game gold, you buy it not from anet, but from someone that bought those gems with real currency first, and then exchanged them for gold.

Yes, there were some gems “seeded” at start, and there are gems in achievement chests, but the first source ran out long ago (within first weeks of the game), and the second is insignificantly small. Also, the gems from the second source end up in hands of people that are unlikely to exchange them for gold (since they play a lot, they have a far better access to ingame currency than gem exchange). Basically, those two sources can be ignored as far as buying gems for gold is concerned.

Devata.6589:

Velimere.7685:

ANet doesn’t need to respond to this because nothing they ever put in their gem store will ever be P2W as long as gold can be converted into gems. If I don’t want to spend X amount of real-world currency to obtain 1,000 gems in order to acquire the new mining pick, I can just convert a sum of my copious amount of stupidly easy to amass gold into gems to get it.

Haha yeah nothing is P2W because you can convert gold to gems. Of course. But everything is a gold-grind. That is already the case.

You know in most games that are very infamous for P2W you can earn the items also in-game. It usually just takes a long boring grind.

You say boring, but I thoroughly enjoy perfecting my speed and Fractal runs with my friends, and earn a lot of gold in the process. I average about 2 hours of gaming a day in GW2, and I’ve spent over 800 gold since December (and I’ll be spending another 200 gold this week to craft my Light of Dwayna). If anything, it’s far too easy to come by in this game, especially when you take advantage of converting all of the various currencies into gold as well. I mean what else am I supposed to do with all of these dungeon tokens but make more gold out of them? Haha.

Velimere.7685:

Devata.6589:

Velimere.7685:

ANet doesn’t need to respond to this because nothing they ever put in their gem store will ever be P2W as long as gold can be converted into gems. If I don’t want to spend X amount of real-world currency to obtain 1,000 gems in order to acquire the new mining pick, I can just convert a sum of my copious amount of stupidly easy to amass gold into gems to get it.

Haha yeah nothing is P2W because you can convert gold to gems. Of course. But everything is a gold-grind. That is already the case.

You know in most games that are very infamous for P2W you can earn the items also in-game. It usually just takes a long boring grind.

You say boring, but I thoroughly enjoy perfecting my speed and Fractal runs with my friends, and earn a lot of gold in the process. I average about 2 hours of gaming a day in GW2, and I’ve spent over 800 gold since December (and I’ll be spending another 200 gold this week to craft my Light of Dwayna). If anything, it’s far too easy to come by in this game, especially when you take advantage of converting all of the various currencies into gold as well. I mean what else am I supposed to do with all of these dungeon tokens but make more gold out of them? Haha.

Well for some people it isn’t. For some it is. I like to go into the world to get an item I like. That might in some cases also be boring by itself (kill one type of mobs 1000 times) but I have fun in it because I am chasing that thing I want and every time have the feeling will it drop?

That something many people have. Just like you might have fun doing fractals over and over again. Current problem is that for most fluff stuff I can’t hunt it down in the world but I should buy it with gold so then I do stuff just to make gold what is boring for me, and for the many people that complain about grind. But it’s maybe not for you.

Like I said before.. It really depends on your personal game-play. What you like best.

Fact is that if it was available in the game-world it would still also end up on the TP (probably a little more expensive) so you could still get it with the money you earned doing fractals. So in that way it would not interfere much with your game-play like it does now with ‘my’ game-play.

I’m going to break this down a bit:

Devata.6589:

That might in some cases also be boring by itself (kill one type of mobs 1000 times) but I have fun in it because I am chasing that thing I want and every time have the feeling will it drop?

Fact is that if it was available in the game-world it would still also end up on the TP (probably a little more expensive) so you could still get it with the money you earned doing fractals. So in that way it would not interfere much with your game-play like it does now with ‘my’ game-play.

Right… so you can do the Karka train killing the same type of mob thousands of times with a chance for any precursor to drop. Say a precursor DOES drop: You can TP it and convert for more than enough gems for the new mining pick more than double over. Say it doesn’t drop: You can still sell the multitude of Karka Shells and Vials of Powerful Blood you’ll be stockpiling on the TP for gold to convert into gems.

Point in case, it’s still the same pie no matter which way you slice it. If it had its own specific in-game grind to acquire it, it’d probably be soulbound or account bound on acquire based on majority examples of other likewise THEMED items (Living Story equipment, Sunless weapons, etc), and that’d be far more limiting than what you’re trying to argue. Heck, you can’t be certain you’d even like the grind!

As for having it as a random drop like the Permanent Bank Access Express, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever given that is, in fact, a THEMED item.

Velimere.7685:

I’m going to break this down a bit:

Devata.6589:

That might in some cases also be boring by itself (kill one type of mobs 1000 times) but I have fun in it because I am chasing that thing I want and every time have the feeling will it drop?

Fact is that if it was available in the game-world it would still also end up on the TP (probably a little more expensive) so you could still get it with the money you earned doing fractals. So in that way it would not interfere much with your game-play like it does now with ‘my’ game-play.

Right… so you can do the Karka train killing the same type of mob thousands of times with a chance for any precursor to drop. Say a precursor DOES drop: You can TP it and convert for more than enough gems for the new mining pick more than double over. Say it doesn’t drop: You can still sell the multitude of Karka Shells and Vials of Powerful Blood you’ll be stockpiling on the TP for gold to convert into gems.

Point in case, it’s still the same pie no matter which way you slice it. If it had its own specific in-game grind to acquire it, it’d probably be soulbound or account bound on acquire based on majority examples of other likewise THEMED items (Living Story equipment, Sunless weapons, etc), and that’d be far more limiting than what you’re trying to argue. Heck, you can’t be certain you’d even like the grind!

As for having it as a random drop like the Permanent Bank Access Express, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever given that is, in fact, a THEMED item.

If I farm something to sell the drops I am grinding gold not going for the specific item.

It’s something completely else then going into the world and going for items you want (having to do different content for every item).

There are a few of those items (themed as you name them) already in the game. For example the mini Cobalt Great Jungle Wurm Head is such an item and it’s not soul-bound. The sunless are. It can be but does not have to be soul-bound. Just like pretty much any drop can be made soul-bound or not. There is n specific reason it has to be.

Living story rewards are achievements, they are more linked to your story thats why they are soul-bound (your story). Thats something else. In my example I also talked about quest-rewards, those would indeed be soul-bound (your quest) but most of this sort rewards do not have to be soul-bound at all.

Devata.6589:

There are a few of those items (themed as you name them) already in the game. For example the mini Cobalt Great Jungle Wurm Head is such an item and it’s not soul-bound. The sunless are.

Yeah… The Mini Cobalt Great Jungle Wurm Head is NOT something you equip unlike the Sunless weapons and the Living Story themed gathering tools.

Devata.6589:

It can be but does not have to be soul-bound. Just like pretty much any drop can be made soul-bound or not. There is n specific reason it has to be.

See above. While there may be no specific REASON, there IS a specific pattern.

Devata.6589:

Living story rewards are achievements, they are more linked to your story thats why they are soul-bound (your story). Thats something else. In my example I also talked about quest-rewards, those would indeed be soul-bound (your quest) but most of this sort rewards do not have to be soul-bound at all.

The problem is that it’s NOT something else. All of the themed gathering tools are based off of the Living Story and were/are made initially available with said Living Story. That’s DOUBLE the justification for them to be bound items as they are rightly so.

You’re making very vague blanket statements about “there being no reason” for such and “does not have to be” or what have you, but it’s very evident that ArenaNet is of the complete opposite opinion based upon their own given pattern for what they decide is bound and what isn’t.

Flamekissed armor addressed in < 24 hours.
WvW rank 30 for Gift addressed in < 24 hours
Watchwork Pick addressed in > 2 weeks and counting.

P2W Game is P2W. People can try to justify it all they want but it is p2w. The only thing is how much p2w different people accept. I don’t mind the buying of gold allowing someone to completely max out gear (including legendary) in one day. I don’t mind BiS QoL items. If the item does exactly what I can get in game except for a skin/animation/duration difference so what. I would rather they add a way in game to get the QoL item besides gold to gem exchange but I can live with it.

I know people that won’t even play this game because you can buy gold and that is too much for them. I know others that liked it and dropped an extra 50 bucks into gems first day they stated playing. Everyone is different on how they feel about it and everyone has different tolerance levels of how much is acceptable before they reach their limit and quit. Trying to argue about the definition of p2w is dumb. Best thing is to just say you don’t mind certain levels of it and move on from there. Maybe even focus on why you think certain levels are OK. something like I find the gold/gem exchange good for the game as people who want to do that will just buy gold from gold farmers anyways so this way the game gets a piece of that pie.

Many people are upset that the precedent they have set will lead to levels of P2W that aren’t currently in the game. People can say its just sprockets but they can not guarantee the next thing won’t be something like ectos. I don’t work for arenanet or ncsoft so I can’t say what the future holds either. What I can say is that prior experience shows that once they start testing the waters they don’t stop there.

DDO for years was a subscription game and then switched to a sub/f2p model. At first it was just QoL items and then slowly started adding the major p2w items. The DDO store now is full on P2W. Its happened in lots of games and if the suits think the extra money will look good on the quarterlies they will run with it.

Corporate greed has killed many games. I’m not sure why so many defend the companies. Will stopping arenanet from making anymore items like the pick hurt you or your playstyle? Will it upset you if they release new gathering tools without any special effects only new skin/animation. I can guarantee it will make many upset if they do add more new ones with special effects. I don’t see why its a bad thing for people to not what the game they love to play to go down that path.

Velimere.7685:

Devata.6589:

There are a few of those items (themed as you name them) already in the game. For example the mini Cobalt Great Jungle Wurm Head is such an item and it’s not soul-bound. The sunless are.

Yeah… The Mini Cobalt Great Jungle Wurm Head is NOT something you equip unlike the Sunless weapons and the Living Story themed gathering tools.

Devata.6589:

It can be but does not have to be soul-bound. Just like pretty much any drop can be made soul-bound or not. There is n specific reason it has to be.

See above. While there may be no specific REASON, there IS a specific pattern.

Devata.6589:

Living story rewards are achievements, they are more linked to your story thats why they are soul-bound (your story). Thats something else. In my example I also talked about quest-rewards, those would indeed be soul-bound (your quest) but most of this sort rewards do not have to be soul-bound at all.

The problem is that it’s NOT something else. All of the themed gathering tools are based off of the Living Story and were/are made initially available with said Living Story. That’s DOUBLE the justification for them to be bound items as they are rightly so.

You’re making very vague blanket statements about “there being no reason” for such and “does not have to be” or what have you, but it’s very evident that ArenaNet is of the complete opposite opinion based upon their own given pattern for what they decide is bound and what isn’t.

Pff there is no reason they have to do that. Stands even if they would be following the line you say but they don’t. There are enough things not soul-bound with an themed.

You said that before I gave an example and suddenly it has to be equitable to follow your rule.

Well fine: Shard of the Deep.

Suggestion for new items for the gem stores, now that we no longer have cosmetic-only items:

• Sickle that gives toxic spores
• New finishers that give PVP rank points when used
• Armor skin items that give an extra luck boost to the armor they’re applied to
• Node for the home instance that drops an azurite orb each day
  Etc…

:(

Weeks after the release of the first true item in the gemstore that provides more than a cosmetic difference to armor or items, and no communication from Anet.

Pay to Win is paying real cash for a power increase…

Where did all of you saw that on the gem store.

Ore, clockworck devices you can have all of it by playing the game, what is pay to win in this ? Do they sells weapons or gear in it ? No !! They are not required items to play the full game, GW2 is not a pay to win game.

If you want real pay to win, go to real F2P games hosted by Gpotato or Aeria games, there you will see real Pay to Win games…

@Azarhiel

I agree. This bonus is not a big deal. But the idea of putting something like that is. If this goes without fuss they might add more things to gem shop. And those thing could actually be big deal.

The current bonus is not pay to win but it is pay for advantage. The problem being if they can introduce this, and ignore the outcry of their players, what is next? They have refused to comment in any way, and that is the most unacceptable thing they could do. The bonus on this pick either shouldn’t exist or it should be on every orichalcum pick in the game.

On a somewhat related note, what are the thoughts of players who bought the Royal Terrace pass now that the Captain’s Airship is introduced? From what I hear, the Airship has two additional NPCs (Black Lion Weapon merchant and the Daily Activity, although it apparently lacks a trait resetter), but the biggest benefit is probably how it can be accessed from any PvE map by just double-clicking the Pass. Are you still happy with your Royal Terrace pass? If not, have you bought or are you considering buying the Airship Pass as well?

I havn’t bought either of the Passes, because I find both of them more inconvenient than using the WvW homeland.

I might have considered them if they were account unlock, usable from a menu (don’t have to carry an item around), and make you able to return to where you were before.

Overall items like these are not too terrible, as long as they don’t add exclusive merchants to those locations, but I think they should have access to the same features, just with a different feel/look (i.e. horizontal progression).

Which brings us back to the Watchwork Pick and it’s terrible precedent of horizontal progression on Gem Store items.

I still think the bonus should just be removed, and people who exclusively bought it for that offered a refund, even though I havn’t seen a single person argue they did.

But honestly, at this point its beating a dead horse. With ANet completely ignoring the issue I have lost all faith they will do anything about it, and I lost quite some faith in the Gem Store as whole and will think twice about future “infinite” purchases.