Guild Wars 2

For example “Guard” ranger skill, should reveal 5 targets that are in stealth and prevent them to re-stealth for 10 seconds in range of 1200.

There is no counter to stealth, and even if people use full stealth builds they still have full burst potential, this should be countered on some way and punished! And now is the time to get new skills where expansion is on the doors to create some balance in the game.

I agree to what you mean, we need at least 2 skills that have reveal on each class.
However your example seems a bit overpowered.

well in wvw you have stealth traps, and engineer and ranger have good detection measures. just make sure you can burst him down in 6 seconds

Then we need skills that can remove invincible effects as well, as those are actually preventing you from dying unlike stealth, you can still be killed in stealth, and most durations are pretty short per skilluse (and in case of shadow refuge that is a very long stealth it does require you to stay within a small area for a long time, ripe for getting aoe’d

Stealth counter…. every AOE damage ever

Why would we need things that counter invulnerability? It bus such a rare thing for a class to have, there is no point In nerfing it.

Timiok.1048:

Why would we need things that counter invulnerability? It bus such a rare thing for a class to have, there is no point In nerfing it.

They actually nerfed 2 Invul skills, and the entire Stability effect because of Warriors and Guardians. There is no denying Invul is incredibly powerful. And it only being a couple classes doesn’t discount that power at all.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

well in wvw you have stealth traps, and engineer and ranger have good detection measures. just make sure you can burst him down in 6 seconds

Stealth trap is not enough because it requires supplies, and in my opinion stealth traps should be removed, because they bring nothing to the game.

GummiBear.2756:

Then we need skills that can remove invincible effects as well, as those are actually preventing you from dying unlike stealth, you can still be killed in stealth, and most durations are pretty short per skilluse (and in case of shadow refuge that is a very long stealth it does require you to stay within a small area for a long time, ripe for getting aoe’d

I agree this is the next topic that has to be looked. For example, ranger has Stone of Signet. But that has a counter, it doesn’t protect you from conditions. So this is basically what i mean, some things have no counter. If You are invincible, you should still get rooted stunned, (hold on place). But you should take no damage of any kind.

You have no idea what you are talking about op, I bet you have never played thief in your life, what you propose would completely destroy the class, a thief revealed for 10 seconds is a dead thief, even more now that burst and condi dmg is out of control, you only need to hit a thief a couple of times to kill him, if you want to destroy thieves just play guardian, that is your counter.

Timiok.1048:

I agree to what you mean, we need at least 2 skills that have reveal on each class.
However your example seems a bit overpowered.

Reveal is a binary mechanic that adds nothing whatsoever to combat and the very last thing we need is more of it.

We need a redesign of stealth that has some actual play to it between opponents.

starlinvf.1358:

Stealth counter…. every AOE damage ever

And this is possibly the dumbest statement on this subject, ever.

This works in other games, because they have costs for their abilities, usually mana, meaning they can have spammable AoEs metered. We have no such thing in Gw2, the biggest ‘spammable’ AoEs are piddly little 300 diameter autos like Lightning Whip, Greatsword Swing, and Fireball.

Meanwhile, the thief has the second highest movement speed in the game so long as they can maintain stealth, and dashes available on every single mainhand weapon which are just as wide as every AoE save Combustive Shot and Meteor Shower.

Yet, are they overpowered? No, in fact if anything thieves are a little weak as anything but worthless WvW roamers. But that is what happens when you get a year and a half long string of nerfs due to how poorly designed one single mechanic is.

And before anyone pulls more BS “U dnt play thief yer jus a hater”, I do play the thief, I have an 80 of every class in fact. And anyone who legitimately explores the thief class instead of just exploiting cheese builds can easily come to the conclusion that this class is never going to be as fulfilling to play, fun to play against, or balanced as it would be were stealth to be redesigned in to a mechanic with more give and take between opponents.

TL:DR

Dear Anet,

Please nerf rock, paper is fine.

Sincerely yours,
Scissors.

Odyssey.2613:

TL:DR

Dear Anet,

Please nerf rock, paper is fine.

Sincerely yours,
Scissors.

Someone doesn’t know how to count.

Revealed>stealth>?

Where exactly is scissors in your copy-pasted bandwagon analogy? Nothing can be done about the revealed mechanic, and only revealed can do anything about stealth. Stealth and reveal are binary mechanics, they affect each other at a 1:1 ratio with nothing else completing the circle. Rock, paper, scissors is the basis of good game balance, each mechanic having responses to it equal to its efficacy and availability, both of these mechanics have entirely lacked that element of design since their very inception.

Trying to make reveal as common as a condition and what build are you talking about??

There is no counter to reveal currently. But you can use aoe damage, you can learn learn what someone in stealth is going to do, where they probably are, etc. I have downed so many thieves while they were in stealth, just by knowing what they will do next. Have a problem with a playstyle on a class? Learn to play it.

And let me get this straight, this thread, and many others, from someone using rune of the Trapper while complaining about stealth? The irony…

Var.8305:

You have no idea what you are talking about op, I bet you have never played thief in your life, what you propose would completely destroy the class, a thief revealed for 10 seconds is a dead thief, even more now that burst and condi dmg is out of control, you only need to hit a thief a couple of times to kill him, if you want to destroy thieves just play guardian, that is your counter.

Sir please, your behaviour is not on level of this conversation. I’m a WvW player that sees a lot of issue in d/p builds where thiefs simply abuse the stealth and still have full potential to 3 hit a person with 3,4k armor and 20k+ HP, be realistic, full glass cannon needs to be punished same as every other class. And no i don’t want to destroy them, i want to force them to play risky and risk, not risky and have no risk. Because all you have to do is drop a field stealth yourself, back stab person hit 2x auto, and go back to stealth for the backstab reset. Repeat. It’s no risk in that build. Yes you are squishy but the way thiefs and mesmers currently abuse stealth is just out of control. And sir, you are just a spoiled player that was able to abuse this technique for to long.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

There is no counter to reveal currently. But you can use aoe damage, you can learn learn what someone in stealth is going to do, where they probably are, etc. I have downed so many thieves while they were in stealth, just by knowing what they will do next. Have a problem with a playstyle on a class? Learn to play it.

And let me get this straight, this thread, and many others, from someone using rune of the Trapper while complaining about stealth? The irony…

I understand that precursor hunt is RNG. But we talk about PvP and WvW, I’m not here to guess random AOE area where he’s going to be, but lets be honest, my cooldowns of aoe are 45sec, his cooldowns for restealth is 4 sec, so this is potentially the most worthless cheapest argument you could give on how to counter stealth. And i have no problem on a playstyle, i just find stealth abuse out of place, and if you have so much stealth you should lose a lot of damage. Simple answer, why is s/d no out of meta right now? This style should be most rewarding because the way they play is risky. D/P or PU mesmer is not risky on any way. So that’s that.

And what does this have to do with Trapper? I did like to use but i still agree, that this skill is needed because every playstyle needs a hard counter.

Sagat.3285:

Trying to make reveal as common as a condition and what build are you talking about??

I’m not talking about build, we are talking about amount of stealth and DPS that some classes can output even thought they have full burst potential, and by now, if you play WvW and PvP, you know which classes and what builds this are. It’s fine to argue your favourite style of playing, but being spoiled is other thing, while we all know that stealth is out of place for the amount of burst they are able to deliver.

another L2P case for this forum ..sigh …

Thieves got already nerfed enough.. thops this penentrant whining finally and learn to defend yourself better and especially, play a thiff self, then your are first eligible to talk about thief changes at all!!

People which permanently scream for thief nerfes and changes which literally have never played for a single second a thief and just get defeated by good thief players shouldn’t come here to the forums whining for thief nerfs, when in fact the first thing you should do, is to learn more about your enemy that has beaten you to a pulp!!

Best by playing it self and actualyl see, how it functionlizes, how it plays, so you can understand your foes better of what they will most likely try agaisnt you, when playing an other class.

Stealth has already enough hard counters, the game doesn#t need more of this, or Anet could instantly throw the whole thief class directly into the garbage bin, because more hardcounters woudl make the whole class instantly unplayable with its inherent 90% focus on stealth play to survive, which is the reason, why the thief has nearly no defensive skills for blocking attacks or invulnerability skills like warriors, which is the reason, why the thief is one of the worst classes, when it comes to condition removals, as the gameplay forces you to stealth gameplay, if you want some better automatic condition removals from stealth gameplay.
Thatsa also the reason why the thief is one of the classes with the lowest base health pool, because all their defensiv comes fro mtheir high mobility, doges and mainly stealth to prevent getting hit!
So any any more hard counters and there would need to be made alot of changes in these points where the Thief is crap in to balance out those increased hard counters.

Lets say, i have have no problems with more hard counters, but in return I would want to see a significant increase in max health for thives and and thieves getting sicnificantly more access to boons like protection and stability…

Do you want still more total senseless stealth hard counters then when in fact all what it needs for you to have more success agaisnt thieves is having a better understandign about the general thief gameplay and how to counter them when they go into stealth???

If theres something, about the thief, that needs some little nerfs perhaps, then Sword/Pistol and Sword/Dagger for the counter balance of making D/D and P/P again alot more viable and competitive compared to the S/D and S/P meta and making SB finally a better weapon thats viable for WvW defense again how it was at release date, before its range got nerfed to 900 later

Me thinks someone is getting tired with getting ganked by a good stealth thief.

Roll a thief, play to 80 or try a full stealth glass cannon in PvP for a while and get used to the timing. Promise you thieves will be WAY less scary after that.

This is from a guardian main that had the same issues back in the day and have since L2P.

:)

Conncept.7638:

Timiok.1048:

I agree to what you mean, we need at least 2 skills that have reveal on each class.
However your example seems a bit overpowered.

Reveal is a binary mechanic that adds nothing whatsoever to combat and the very last thing we need is more of it.

We need a redesign of stealth that has some actual play to it between opponents.

starlinvf.1358:

Stealth counter…. every AOE damage ever

And this is possibly the dumbest statement on this subject, ever.

This works in other games, because they have costs for their abilities, usually mana, meaning they can have spammable AoEs metered. We have no such thing in Gw2, the biggest ‘spammable’ AoEs are piddly little 300 diameter autos like Lightning Whip, Greatsword Swing, and Fireball.

Meanwhile, the thief has the second highest movement speed in the game so long as they can maintain stealth, and dashes available on every single mainhand weapon which are just as wide as every AoE save Combustive Shot and Meteor Shower.

Yet, are they overpowered? No, in fact if anything thieves are a little weak as anything but worthless WvW roamers. But that is what happens when you get a year and a half long string of nerfs due to how poorly designed one single mechanic is.

And before anyone pulls more BS “U dnt play thief yer jus a hater”, I do play the thief, I have an 80 of every class in fact. And anyone who legitimately explores the thief class instead of just exploiting cheese builds can easily come to the conclusion that this class is never going to be as fulfilling to play, fun to play against, or balanced as it would be were stealth to be redesigned in to a mechanic with more give and take between opponents.

Exactly this, i invested 200gold into each class, to test tons of possible stuff in WvW, and PvP over this years. And i’ve experimented a lot, I have tried every class just to learn how to counter them hard. But what can’t be countered is stealth and it’s out of place.

Thief should get trapper treatment, if you take 3 traps, you’ll suffer of being hard countered, now ranger has to think very carefuly what to take and what not to take and how ballzy you can play, so does need thief, thiefs that abuse and invest a lot in stealth and shadow arts. Need to lose a lot of power and spike potential.

All the thieves thinking we’re talking about them. Sorry, most of us are talking about Mesmer’s abusing stealth now.

I really don’t care if stealth is nerfed as long as I can stab backstab while revealed. If the thief didn’t have its class mechanic be required to be in stealth for, I could somewhat agree.

Stealth’s counter is smart play and knowing how to beat stealth users. The number of invisible targets (thieves, mesmers, rangers, engineers) I often kill with just single-target attacks is rather high after playing so much of thief/ranger/mesmer and understanding how they are often played in regards to their use of stealth.

Ranger and Engineer already have hard-counters to stealth. The dragonhunter is also getting a pulsing AOE reveal trap.

This would kill Thief,entire thief defense as well as dmg is based on stealth.Take that from thief and you basically turned him to MOA.

Firelysm.4967:

For example “Guard” ranger skill, should reveal 5 targets that are in stealth and prevent them to re-stealth for 10 seconds in range of 1200.

There is no counter to stealth, and even if people use full stealth builds they still have full burst potential, this should be countered on some way and punished! And now is the time to get new skills where expansion is on the doors to create some balance in the game.

I agree, and I play mesmer and thief. This game simply lacks stealth counterplay, especially when compared to otehr games in the genre.

Stealth needs to break on damage.
Stealth should not be spammable, it needs a CD debuff.
Any “offensive” action should break stealth, which is currently not the case with mesmers
ALL professions should have some trait and/or utility access to some sort of stealth detection.
Alternately, some builds / professions without detection, should be outright immune to bonus damage gained from stealth via trait lines.

If these things were implimented, then an extra form of stealth could be implimented, camouflage, stationary only and semi-visible in close proximity, but not from far distances.

Things of this nature would make this game much more tactical, and players skill via decisions as to when to use or not use stealth and respective countermeasures would give the game as a whole far more depth then it has now.

Tongku.5326:

Firelysm.4967:

For example “Guard” ranger skill, should reveal 5 targets that are in stealth and prevent them to re-stealth for 10 seconds in range of 1200.

There is no counter to stealth, and even if people use full stealth builds they still have full burst potential, this should be countered on some way and punished! And now is the time to get new skills where expansion is on the doors to create some balance in the game.

I agree, and I play mesmer and thief. This game simply lacks stealth counterplay, especially when compared to otehr games in the genre.

Stealth needs to break on damage.
Stealth should not be spammable, it needs a CD debuff.
Any “offensive” action should break stealth, which is currently not the case with mesmers
ALL professions should have some trait and/or utility access to some sort of stealth detection.
Alternately, some builds / professions without detection, should be outright immune to bonus damage gained from stealth via trait lines.

If these things were implimented, then an extra form of stealth could be implimented, camouflage, stationary only and semi-visible in close proximity, but not from far distances.

Things of this nature would make this game much more tactical, and players skill via decisions as to when to use or not use stealth and respective countermeasures would give the game as a whole far more depth then it has now.

So your point is….make thief hard to play wile other classes stay 1 shot kill?Why dont they start from warrior then since hes OP or elementalist.Why does always assassin class need to be “skill based” wile rest of the classes are spam buttons??

Stealth already breaks when the one in stealth deals damage.

If you are in stealth and get hit by anything, you are already getting punished by taking damage, and the one attacking probably now knows where you are anyways. People keep acting like being in stealth makes you some sort of invincible deity. When facing a mesmer, especially in wvw, there is no guessing as to whether or not you are looking at a clone or the target if anyone is remotely paying attention. If people are consistently attacking clones with high cooldown skills, or worse stomping clones >.>, then they have a serious learn2play issue going on, and giving them an ‘easy win’ is more broken than the very thing they are complaining about, much like many ‘suggestions’ I’ve seen. You know, like this one.

Ranger already has Sic ‘Em which is 2k range. 6 second lockdown so they can’t stealth. And yet, you want to force reveal 5 targets at 1200 radius for 10 seconds because you personally have an issue against stealth. Worse, while using stealth.

Ranger longbow already hits at near 1800 range because projectile tracking, and is able to hit for 3k+ auto attacks. And that isn’t even talking about rapid fire (even dodging it once I’ve been hit for 8k on a not even full zerk character, we are talking backstab level damage even having dodged part of the attack, at 1500+ range. So should I also be complaining about this? I think it would have a place in the argument) or the ‘pew pew’ while pretty much safe up high on a wall.

Barrage isn’t 45 second cooldown. It’s 30s untraited, 24 traited, and besides, i’m not saying to randomly attack haphazardly. That’s just wasteful. Ele some, and to a larger extent engi, is capable of doing that if they want to but even then, do it smartly. You know where they were, you can learn what they will most likely do next. And even thieves have a limitation to how much and how often they are able to stealth. Initiative is a factor you know. SR makes them vulnerable to AoE because they can’t leave it before it ends without being revealed.

funny I just read another thread about nerfing ranger and u probably think u got skill when all u do is rapid fire from 1500 away to kill ppl?

Yea, how about no

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/We-should-see-invisible-enemies-during-shroud

OP, I read your posts, and I do not believe for one second that you have a level 80 Thief. Or you do, you never used him/her in PvP or WvW, or you have, but not enough to understand the Thief.

Regardless of what the truth is, your suggestion would kill the Thief class. Acro Thieves are already dead due to the Feline Grace nerf. Shadow Arts was weakened, especially due to the Shadow’s Embrace nerf.

I used d/d and short bow before you or anyone else calls me out as an ‘abusive d/p thief.’ Regardless, many others have given plenty of suggestions on how to counter a thief in PvP/WvW. So, those suggestions from players who know how to deal with stealth reveals the fact that you’re either lying that you have a thief, or about your experience with the thief class, or your understanding of the thief class, as I stated before.

Some PvE mobs and bossed should have stealth for variety.

This 100×. Some classes should be able to cause revealed or some other form of counterplay to stealth. A perfect candidate is the engineer’s utility goggles, just for starters. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Utility_Goggles)

We’re talking about Mesmer right? I thought everyone rerolled already.

It’s a l2p issue. Really every class has some way to counter or deal with stealth. Let’s not forget stealth is terrible for actually trying to cap a point. Thieves that keep stealthing when their health is low, run off to occ, and come back will just keep doing this over and over. Of course they will never cap the point so ultimately they “lose”

Silly OP… there is plenty of counterplay to everything in this game. You just refuse to use the options available to you.

lololololo at saying Invulnerability needs a counter nerf when it lasts for at most 3 seconds with very long cool downs
:P………………..and stealth can be unlimited, op has a point.
It is far abused and needs a cool down, a better one at that, just like everything else. I stopped being a bunk guard with over 20k hp and 3.5k armor because a thief hit me for 9k each hit, after being in stealth. Glass cannons can do what ever they want and still survive. It is sad how anet let this system end up this way, but it needs a change.

Alright, then I want invulnerability when I’m being revealed by a skill – I think that’s a fair trade – all you wanted to know is where I am, right?

(Talking about thief)

How to permanently counter thief SR:

1. Play a Revenant
2. Wait for thief to lay down SR
3. Place Unyielding Anguish over the SR spot
4. Watch as thief gets insta-teleported out applying revealed on him and do whatever it is you need to do whilst they are revealed
5. Rinse and repeat if applicable as this skill is basically spammable

Other ways to counter stealth in general:

Case a)

1. Play a ranger with Sic Em equipped
2. Laugh for ages at that thief who has 8-10 seconds of revealed on them whilst you burst them down with your amazing pew pew skills

Case b)

1. Play an engineer
2. Equip that trait that grants you the ability to apply revealed on something you hit that is currently in stealth
3. Do whatever it is you need to do to obliterate the now revealed thief

Case c) (only applicable in WvW)

1. Place a stealth trap (requires 10 supplies to complete)
2. Lure thief into stealth trap and watch as they are instantly revealed for 30 seconds. 30 Seconds. 30 SECONDS. (Extra points if you’re a ranger with Sic Em equipped)
3. Watch as thief/Mesmer/any stealthed thing spazzes out with that much reveal on them allowing you to do whatever it is you need to do to obliterate them

Bonus Case D)

1. Play condi trap ranger
2. The thief should be very well done or burnt to a crisp by the time they decide to come near you or try to touch you in stealth

DeWolfe.2174:

All the thieves thinking we’re talking about them. Sorry, most of us are talking about Mesmer’s abusing stealth now.

I thought I was the only one confused by so many of these replies.
Thieves are mostly a joke now, why does everyone think this thread is about them?

Most now are so glassy if you can avoid any of the first burst and pop them once, they scurry off to hide.

No, mesmers are the true stealth overlords now. Burst, survivability, and stealth. all in one fabulous pink and purple package.

Wryscher.1432:

DeWolfe.2174:

All the thieves thinking we’re talking about them. Sorry, most of us are talking about Mesmer’s abusing stealth now.

I thought I was the only one confused by so many of these replies.
Thieves are mostly a joke now, why does everyone think this thread is about them?

Most now are so glassy if you can avoid any of the first burst and pop them once, they scurry off to hide.

No, mesmers are the true stealth overlords now. Burst, survivability, and stealth. all in one fabulous pink and purple package.

Now I’m confused because the title and the content in the OP is about stealth in general which affects thief just as much as mesmer.

If mesmer is the problem why not start a new thread, or comment on the many others that are already created, to discuss this? Oh, like this one which is also created by OP https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Proposal-to-mesmer-mechanic-change

Also, go to another post from OP and it is even more clear than it already was they want thief nerfed as well. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Tired-of-one-combo-burst/first#post5273934

Yeah, nothing more frustrating that getting killed by a thief popping in and out of stealth. It gets on my last nerve too. I take comfort in the fact that the person playing knows full well they are dead if they don’t play that way, also it takes zero skill to play that way.

My personal view is that the thief is a coward’s class. Yes I hate stealth that much.

Just one suggestion from me:
Make them visible when they are near you, similar to WoW.
It can be:
1. visible in a 180° where you are facing(with a max range ofc.)
2. visible in a smaller radius around your character

That way, you still have a chance to catch him before he takes the initiative. At the same time, it doesn’t break the thief, because they still have high mobility to take the initiative first. And you also get the chance to catch him in case he is running away to reset the fight over and over again.

Only in the shadow refuge the thief is completely invisible while standing inside.

Just my 2 cent.

DeWolfe.2174:

All the thieves thinking we’re talking about them. Sorry, most of us are talking about Mesmer’s abusing stealth now.

Now I understand but it’s still not the proper way.

DeWolfe.2174:

All the thieves thinking we’re talking about them. Sorry, most of us are talking about Mesmer’s abusing stealth now.

It would also affect thieves though and I don’t think mesmers/engis/rangers would care too much about their stealth being taken away as their class mechanics aren’t based on stealth.

Jana.6831:

DeWolfe.2174:

All the thieves thinking we’re talking about them. Sorry, most of us are talking about Mesmer’s abusing stealth now.

It would also affect thieves though and I don’t think mesmers/engis/rangers would care too much about their stealth being taken away as their class mechanics aren’t based on stealth.

It is actually one of the things that annoys me about my thief. The stealth on my mesmer with PU is like an added bonus. You are decent without and can build for it. Add traited stealth and you are down right nasty. So you can really play either with or without it.

Play your thief and you are a walking loot bag without stealth since the whole class seems balanced around it. It is silly the difference.

Kirnale.5914:

Just one suggestion from me:
Make them visible when they are near you, similar to WoW.
It can be:
1. visible in a 180° where you are facing(with a max range ofc.)
2. visible in a smaller radius around your character

That way, you still have a chance to catch him before he takes the initiative. At the same time, it doesn’t break the thief, because they still have high mobility to take the initiative first. And you also get the chance to catch him in case he is running away to reset the fight over and over again.

Only in the shadow refuge the thief is completely invisible while standing inside.

Just my 2 cent.

in World of what…ever, the stealth is unlimited if I remember correctly, no? the way it plays is very different, in general people are less mobile, they move less/jump and are very depending on the unlimited stealth……..I mean, what if they gave stealth in WoW all a 10 second timer at max and normal around 3 seconds, would ruin them.

Giving a visibility of an angle of 180 for anyone with the current timer would simply wreck thief builds, people wont only know that they are coming since the absurd low timer, they would also know to simply rotate to win, since thief will in the end have to get out of stealth in…..lets say 10 seconds if the opponent actually uses shadow refuge on first second. Bombing a spot/focussing on that particular spot would be absurdly easy, it would simply ruin the profession all in all…..

But I have read some of the responds in here, and some people here dont mind ruining another profession because their build is metabattle and weak against thieves :p

There is a reason why mesmer and thief are both the most boring profession to ever fight against.

Because barely anything happens, and when something do happen, it happens all instantly, but it’s not you who do anything.

And if that doesn’t kill you, they are gone again with you just standing still waiting for next approach.

zengara.8301:

in World of what…ever, the stealth is unlimited if I remember correctly, no? the way it plays is very different, in general people are less mobile, they move less/jump and are very depending on the unlimited stealth…….

Rogues and druids (the classes that can stealth) run faster in stealth than what other classes do normally.

They almost run at mount speed, while being invisible.

Yeah, it’s ridiculous.

But Guild Wars 2 stealth remains the most broken stealth mechanic in any MMO.

Nick Lentz.6982:

lololololo at saying Invulnerability needs a counter nerf when it lasts for at most 3 seconds with very long cool downs
:P………………..and stealth can be unlimited, op has a point.
It is far abused and needs a cool down, a better one at that, just like everything else. I stopped being a bunk guard with over 20k hp and 3.5k armor because a thief hit me for 9k each hit, after being in stealth. Glass cannons can do what ever they want and still survive. It is sad how anet let this system end up this way, but it needs a change.

I can’t believe this. As someone who played a bunker/boon monkey guardian I cannot believe a single thief was able to do that much damage to you, between Aegis, another aegis, blinds, blocks, more blocks, invuln, more blinds, and oh look, aegis is back. I once had a never ending battle with a thief in WvW that was a glass cannon. He couldn’t burn through all of my defense and I was hitting like a wet noodle which he healed in stealth. It was comical. After a while we just bowed and went our separate ways.

Maybe 2-3 thieves exploded on you, but one thief? Nah. Literally impossible if you are playing bunker guardian correctly.

Wryscher.1432:

Jana.6831:

DeWolfe.2174:

All the thieves thinking we’re talking about them. Sorry, most of us are talking about Mesmer’s abusing stealth now.

It would also affect thieves though and I don’t think mesmers/engis/rangers would care too much about their stealth being taken away as their class mechanics aren’t based on stealth.

It is actually one of the things that annoys me about my thief. The stealth on my mesmer with PU is like an added bonus. You are decent without and can build for it. Add traited stealth and you are down right nasty. So you can really play either with or without it.

Play your thief and you are a walking loot bag without stealth since the whole class seems balanced around it. It is silly the difference.

Not saying its easy or easier by any stretch, but I have a thief build that has no stealth use as part of the build. Or rather, lie, it uses CnD to set up pistol one for the bleeds, but its not like I’m using the stealth to survive, just to set up part of the condi burst.

I’ve had tons of fun with her on that build in WvW. Too many people are eager to chase even when hurting.