Guild Wars 2

Stealth is not mesmer thing, and should be removed, but before you go nuts read till the end.

I would remove all mesmer stealths except veil and implement mechanics that would allow mesmers to switch between illusions phantasms and any kind of clones, this way mesmer would actually have to position wisely, stealth is out of place because there is no counter to stealt.

Mesmer does not fit stealth role, it fits illusions, and confusion. People should be confused targeting CORRECT TARGET, not picking one of the targets and have them pick 100% wrong, because mesmer is in stealth.

No. There are reasons:
To have a mesmer mistaken by the opponent the mesmer would have to

• AA only.
• Run with [W] only
• Run only when out of range
• not dodge
• not use signets
• not use food
• not use mantras
• not use boosters / not playing on “into the mist”-weekends

There is a counter to stealth. Timing, Positioning, Prediction and the biggest one: Revealed

Next thing which would make it impossible for mesmers to confuse ppl with clones is the “Call Target” option in Guildwars 2. Put that big red cross over the mesmers head and you’ll never lose him. Stealth is the only tool to counter that mechanic which would kill every last bit of deception a mesmer is able to create with clones.

Revealed is not a counter to stealth. It can do nothing on ppl who are in stealth. It has power on ppl who are not. This is the real problem with stealth. It lacks counter play.

Firelysm.4967:

Stealth is not mesmer thing, and should be removed, but before you go nuts read till the end.

I would remove all mesmer stealths except veil and implement mechanics that would allow mesmers to switch between illusions phantasms and any kind of clones, this way mesmer would actually have to position wisely, stealth is out of place because there is no counter to stealt.

Mesmer does not fit stealth role, it fits illusions, and confusion. People should be confused targeting CORRECT TARGET, not picking one of the targets and have them pick 100% wrong, because mesmer is in stealth.

What happens to teleport when all clones get ganked in 0.5 seconds by AoE’s? hows that viable?

I dont understand how stealth is not a mesmer thing, this argument comes around here pretty regularly and I’ve never understood it. Im not trying to bash what you’re saying but could you explain more in depth why mesmers should not have stealth, outside of the lack of counterplay that applies to other classes too.

Also by “change mesmer mechanic” you mean changing the shatters to the way to swap places? or would you use the utility skill slots taken out by removing stealth?

Replacing shatters would seriously cripple the class by removing our main source of competitive burst. And it would be incredibly difficult to implement a system for swapping that was useful in just one or two utility slots.

The entire premise is flawed. Invisibility is a Mesmer thing.
Stealth<- the stealth produced by thieves and comboing with smoke fields, semi magical
Hide in shadows<- the stealth mesmer’s produce by bending light and sound, fully magical (why do you think veil is a light field?)
Camoflauge<- the stealth rangers produce by using nature magic, semi magical
engie stealth< elixirs which mimic stealth, not magical

The lore is very clear on this.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Revealed is not a counter to stealth. It can do nothing on ppl who are in stealth. It has power on ppl who are not. This is the real problem with stealth. It lacks counter play.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lock_On

There is a reason why there is only ONE profession with something like this trait.

Me Games Ma.8426:

No. There are reasons:
To have a mesmer mistaken by the opponent the mesmer would have to

• AA only.
• Run with [W] only
• Run only when out of range
• not dodge
• not use signets
• not use food
• not use mantras
• not use boosters / not playing on “into the mist”-weekends

There is a counter to stealth. Timing, Positioning, Prediction and the biggest one: Revealed

Next thing which would make it impossible for mesmers to confuse ppl with clones is the “Call Target” option in Guildwars 2. Put that big red cross over the mesmers head and you’ll never lose him. Stealth is the only tool to counter that mechanic which would kill every last bit of deception a mesmer is able to create with clones.

False in so many ways. The idea about clones/phantasms/illusions would be able to copy mesmers mimics, and perform same animations as mesmers, which is fairly easy to achieve from programming wise, since mechanics for this are already in the game.

“There is counter to stealth. Timing Positioning, Prediction, Revealed”.
Please don’t make me laugh, this is overall-game-combat-knowledge. This is not a counter. Counter would be for example if mesmer goes in the stealth, if there would be skill to reveal a player in 1200 range, that would be a counter, but currently not what you’ve mentioned.

Setting target on mesmer is not as easy as you say, they can stealth a lot in a single fight.

Vieux P.1238:

Firelysm.4967:

Stealth is not mesmer thing, and should be removed, but before you go nuts read till the end.

I would remove all mesmer stealths except veil and implement mechanics that would allow mesmers to switch between illusions phantasms and any kind of clones, this way mesmer would actually have to position wisely, stealth is out of place because there is no counter to stealt.

Mesmer does not fit stealth role, it fits illusions, and confusion. People should be confused targeting CORRECT TARGET, not picking one of the targets and have them pick 100% wrong, because mesmer is in stealth.

What happens to teleport when all clones get ganked in 0.5 seconds by AoE’s? hows that viable?

Simple, buff clones slightly to sustain them a little, not in damage, but in sustain.

Loony.3714:

I dont understand how stealth is not a mesmer thing, this argument comes around here pretty regularly and I’ve never understood it. Im not trying to bash what you’re saying but could you explain more in depth why mesmers should not have stealth, outside of the lack of counterplay that applies to other classes too.

Also by “change mesmer mechanic” you mean changing the shatters to the way to swap places? or would you use the utility skill slots taken out by removing stealth?

Replacing shatters would seriously cripple the class by removing our main source of competitive burst. And it would be incredibly difficult to implement a system for swapping that was useful in just one or two utility slots.

Exactly you swap your position with utilities, and mesmer has no longer any stealth except for vail. And i wouldn’t replace shatters, only the ability to stealth. Just mesmers should think how to play, and how and when to shatter, just headlessly creating illusions phantasms and clones is simply not enjoyable when playing versus PU mesmers.

Stealth should only stay on thief, and even they should get punished for using weapon skills in stealth, for example if person evades backstab, or the attacker misses it, they should get revealed.

Your idea sounds very gimmicky. Are you secretly an Anet employee?

Robert Gee does not approve this thread.

From the programming point of view. It doesn’t matter if you buff the illusions survivability. They suffer conditions, unexpected aoe…, can be killed between you command the teleport(send you to the illusions location) and you’ll be there. To solve it, you should make the illusion invulnerable once the mesmer push the tp button = big flag of where the mesmer will be, depending the delay, lag , etc. Even if you remove the Invulnerable message due a mesmer’s tp. Or, make all illusions inmune for a short time…. = QQ.

Aside, we have F1 – F4, and soon F5. Now add different colours to the illusions’s icons and a icon/something on your illusions to identify who is who, and to let you decide the one you want use…, finally make icons clickable as tps… (with or without cds) increasing the complexity of the class even more. With cds you should add a indicator to the illusion’s icons and make it bigger too. Even you should be able to have a new FX skill to move or place your illusions where you want, to make this effective. Then we have F5-F6, plus clickable illusion’s icons.Try to play the profession without a good gaming mouse with at least 9-14 programmable buttons after add this…

Add, remove all stealth skills, less veil… and invent new ones… Tell it to devs and then we’ll see their face ^^

Is not stealth a mesmer thing… but veil yes…? 0.o

In any case is an insteresting idea. But…

Stealth is a Mesmer thing, always was a Mesmer thing, and will always be a Mesmer thing. To suggest that invisibility isn’t a thing for illusionists is laughable. Your ideas are mechanically unsound and your thematics are hopelessly enslaved to the fantasy archetype that “only thieves/rogues should get stealth”. No, other more original fantasy archetypes are possible, and the Mesmer has long been one.

A ranger is here asking for stealth to be removed from mesmers. Unbelievable. Not long ago, rangers were telling me that they only focus on their own profession and don’t go around trying to get other professions nerfed. :lol:

Firelysm.4967:

False in so many ways. The idea about clones/phantasms/illusions would be able to copy mesmers mimics, and perform same animations as mesmers, which is fairly easy to achieve from programming wise, since mechanics for this are already in the game.

:D
And do same damage as real one, have same health, same combos (hmm, if clone starts shatter should real mesmer blows up? ), same movement patterns, same dodge jumps and LoS, same boons, buffs, mantras, etc. Mb then I would have problems with distinguish real mesmer.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Stealth is a Mesmer thing, always was a Mesmer thing, and will always be a Mesmer thing.

Actually, Stealth never was a thing, other than for The Invisible Pony and the Norn Snow Leopard Spirit in the past.

However, for the entirety of GW2, thus far, your statement is correct.

Esplen.3940:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Stealth is a Mesmer thing, always was a Mesmer thing, and will always be a Mesmer thing.

Actually, Stealth never was a thing, other than for The Invisible Pony and the Norn Snow Leopard Spirit in the past.

However, for the entirety of GW2, thus far, your statement is correct.

Good thing that was all I was talking about, as was needless to point out.

Even though I liked the new mechanic idea, (Its something i had in mind in the past as well. “I wish I could swap positions with my clone without anyone noticing.”) I don’t agree that stealth isn’t mesmer like.

It is meaner mechanic members are not ment to be hit as debs told when they removed retal access from cry of frustration and more importantly stealth is not for rangers espessaly on skill what has 12 sec cd prestige has 30 seconds also channel skill track in stealth looking at rangers again and don’t worry when specalysations come most uf us will switch extra stealth to signet of illusions and quickness

Firelysm.4967:

False in so many ways. The idea about clones/phantasms/illusions would be able to copy mesmers mimics, and perform same animations as mesmers, which is fairly easy to achieve from programming wise, since mechanics for this are already in the game.

“There is counter to stealth. Timing Positioning, Prediction, Revealed”.
Please don’t make me laugh, this is overall-game-combat-knowledge. This is not a counter. Counter would be for example if mesmer goes in the stealth, if there would be skill to reveal a player in 1200 range, that would be a counter, but currently not what you’ve mentioned.

Setting target on mesmer is not as easy as you say, they can stealth a lot in a single fight.

This statement is laughable.
First: Clones are nothing a good player would mistake for the real one. That’s how it is. Don’t make up silly thoughts saying “programming wise it’s possible”. It won’t make it into the game. 100% Certain.

If you cannot handle the “overall-game-combat-knowledge” this thread is only due to a l2p issue.

Again, there ARE counters for stealth. Engineers and Rangers are able to reveal a target (which is why I included the link in first place but I’m pretty sure you didn’t even click on it being sure that you know everything that link could possibly show you).

“Setting target on mesmer is not as easy as you say, they can stealth a lot in a single fight.”
YES, that is why mesmers need stealth. To counter that basic game mechanic. If mesmers always had a big red sign on them there would be NO reason for deceiving clones. Don’t you get it. A mesmer without stealth but with better clones would be a mesmer without better clones! Before the fight even starts the opponent targets the mesmer and will never have a problem finding out the real one he’s targeted anyways.
Don’t you understand that? You shouldn’t be able to target and happyly kill a mesmer!

A lot of panicking Mesmers show up to defend their broken stealth because they’re abusing it right now :P

Anyway, I don’t think stealth has to go, but I think PU should go, and using any clones or phantasm in stealth should instantly get you “revealed” at the moment of cast. It should be more in-line with thief. When in stealth, Mesmer shouldn’t be able to do damage or set up burst at all.

Aomine.5012:

A lot of panicking Mesmers show up to defend their broken stealth because they’re abusing it right now :P

Anyway, I don’t think stealth has to go, but I think PU should go, and using any clones or phantasm in stealth should instantly get you “revealed” at the moment of cast. It should be more in-line with thief. When in stealth, Mesmer shouldn’t be able to do damage or set up burst at all.

So… thief can “setup” burst by going in stealth, but it’s a no-no for mesmers?

Menaka.5092:

Aomine.5012:

A lot of panicking Mesmers show up to defend their broken stealth because they’re abusing it right now :P

Anyway, I don’t think stealth has to go, but I think PU should go, and using any clones or phantasm in stealth should instantly get you “revealed” at the moment of cast. It should be more in-line with thief. When in stealth, Mesmer shouldn’t be able to do damage or set up burst at all.

So… thief can “setup” burst by going in stealth, but it’s a no-no for mesmers?

1. Currently Mesmer is allowed to stay in stealth while phantasm or clones dish out damage. It is reasonable to do that if the caster cast them BEFORE they go into stealth, but able to summon some of the phantasm and clones while in stealth just because it doesn’t directly does damage is unreasonable.

2. Thief’s burst involving direct contact with the foes, while Mesmer’s burst can set up on any location. Not to mention it’s also AOE too.

3. Many of the Mesmer’s stealth completely ignores reveal and still go into stealth..

4. Thief cannot do their burst while being in evade mode or invulnerable mode. If you’re talking about S/D that can evade, they lose a tremendous amount of stealthing potential by choosing that weapon set.

5. Thief is much much MUCH weaker than Mesmer now, with way more counter-play than Mesmer.

6. Thief does not have easy access to reflect like Mesmer does, so projectiles that can track through stealth works less on Mesmer.

I’m assuming the OP has lost a few duels against a PU condi mesmer or similar and he’s now mad.

Let’s put things in perspective:

• the game is not balanced around 1v1
• in PvP, stealth makes you lose your point, so it’s actually counter-productive (so much that the current “meta” build goes Inspiration instead of Chaos)
• in WvW (1v1 roaming), every class can easily outrun a PU condi mesmer
• in WvW (1v1 roaming) you can learn to counter the obvious shatter setups for a PU power mesmer

OP, if you had come to this forum asking how to counter a specific mesmer build, you would have got tons of tips and tricks on how to deal with mesmers. You want to get better? Ask how to win a fight, don’t ask for the almighty gods to nerf your opponent so you can lazily win without changing how you play.

Aomine.5012:

Menaka.5092:

Aomine.5012:

A lot of panicking Mesmers show up to defend their broken stealth because they’re abusing it right now :P

Anyway, I don’t think stealth has to go, but I think PU should go, and using any clones or phantasm in stealth should instantly get you “revealed” at the moment of cast. It should be more in-line with thief. When in stealth, Mesmer shouldn’t be able to do damage or set up burst at all.

So… thief can “setup” burst by going in stealth, but it’s a no-no for mesmers?

1. Currently Mesmer is allowed to stay in stealth while phantasm or clones dish out damage. It is reasonable to do that if the caster cast them BEFORE they go into stealth, but able to summon some of the phantasm and clones while in stealth just because it doesn’t directly does damage is unreasonable.

So they shouldn’t be able to setup burst at all while in stealth. At the same time, a thief can open with a 8-12k backstab from stealth without any issue.

Aomine.5012:

2. Thief’s burst involving direct contact with the foes, while Mesmer’s burst can set up on any location. Not to mention it’s also AOE too.

Try using mirror blade from 1200 range, from stealth, on an opponent that is aware that the mesmer is around. You’ll fail. The projectile isn’t stealth, so it can be dodged. Also, from maximum range it doesn’t bounce back and you lose a ton of damage on your burst, and the shatter from IP doesn’t apply. The optimal burst is Mirror Blade + Mind Wrack from melee range.

Also, only the mindwrack component of the burst is AoE, actually having mirror blade bounce to a secondary target will lower your burst.

Aomine.5012:

3. Many of the Mesmer’s stealth completely ignores reveal and still go into stealth..

I didn’t test it after the patch, but before the patch only Decoy worked that way and it may have been fixed since.

Aomine.5012:

4. Thief cannot do their burst while being in evade mode or invulnerable mode. If you’re talking about S/D that can evade, they lose a tremendous amount of stealthing potential by choosing that weapon set.

If you are talking about Blurred Frenzy, it roots you in place, so it’s easily countered. F4 shatter uses your illusions so you actually trade your potential burst for survival.

Aomine.5012:

5. Thief is much much MUCH weaker than Mesmer now, with way more counter-play than Mesmer.

[citation needed]

Aomine.5012:

6. Thief does not have easy access to reflect like Mesmer does, so projectiles that can track through stealth works less on Mesmer.

reflecting projectiles back will give you revealed, would you enjoy that?

Menaka.5092:

Aomine.5012:

3. Many of the Mesmer’s stealth completely ignores reveal and still go into stealth..

I didn’t test it after the patch, but before the patch only Decoy worked that way and it may have been fixed since.

Decoy was fixed way long ago. No stealth for revealed.

It’s silly really, some of the complaints ARE justified and on those, I can,t see many mesmers disagreeing (PU shave, BD fix, CS shave, etc)
But sometimes it’s juste QQ for the sake of QQ without knowing a class… The revealed problem as been dealt with months ago, and many of those “invulns” stayed exactly the same as pre-patch, yet now it’s a problem.
Many don’t even know how the burst of a mesmer works, that it needs to go in melee for full potential.
Since when is blurred frenzy op either way… I saw it, QQ about blurred frenzy
Sword main-hand is the shadow of what it was, and people are still asking for nerf on something that hasn’t changed with the patch…
What will we see next? dodging shouldn’t produce clones because too OP?

Pepsi.8907:

It’s silly really, some of the complaints ARE justified and on those, I can,t see many mesmers disagreeing (PU shave, BD fix, CS shave, etc)
But sometimes it’s juste QQ for the sake of QQ without knowing a class… The revealed problem as been dealt with months ago, and many of those “invulns” stayed exactly the same as pre-patch, yet now it’s a problem.
Many don’t even know how the burst of a mesmer works, that it needs to go in melee for full potential.
Since when is blurred frenzy op either way… I saw it, QQ about blurred frenzy
Sword main-hand is the shadow of what it was, and people are still asking for nerf on something that hasn’t changed with the patch…
What will we see next? dodging shouldn’t produce clones because too OP?

You completely missed the point.

I listed these things to justify Mesmer shouldn’t have super long lasting stealth, not because Mesmer couldn’t do these before. And yes, Mesmer didn’t have super long lasting stealth before the patch, so these 6 things I mentioned is “acceptable” .

Pepsi.8907:

It’s silly really, some of the complaints ARE justified and on those, I can,t see many mesmers disagreeing (PU shave, BD fix, CS shave, etc)
But sometimes it’s juste QQ for the sake of QQ without knowing a class… The revealed problem as been dealt with months ago, and many of those “invulns” stayed exactly the same as pre-patch, yet now it’s a problem.
Many don’t even know how the burst of a mesmer works, that it needs to go in melee for full potential.
Since when is blurred frenzy op either way… I saw it, QQ about blurred frenzy
Sword main-hand is the shadow of what it was, and people are still asking for nerf on something that hasn’t changed with the patch…
What will we see next? dodging shouldn’t produce clones because too OP?

Agreed.

It seems people are using the existence of a few Mesmer specific problems post-patch (the ones you mentioned – PU, BD, CS) as an excuse to unleash a huge amount of vitriol towards things that have already existed pre-patch and have already seen nerfs over the last few years (the Blurred Frenzy example really made me facepalm when I read it).

It is ridiculous.

I can only speak for myself and as a Mesmer main of course I don’t want the class to be mindless easymode nonsense where bad play can be rewarded. I don’t think most of us in here do. But some of the complaints I’ve read are just unbelievable – hating on the class for its basic function – ie to “be a nuisance” compared to an “honourable” class like guardian (nevermind they can teleport to you through walls and unload a disgusting amount of power and Condi burst – same can be said in different ways for all classes).

The damage problems are not Mesmer specific and need to be dealt with anyway – whether through shaving amulets and tweaking stats.

Untraited (ie NOT using PU) stealth is identical to pre patch and perfectly fine with plenty of counterplay (timing of defensive cooldowns, positioning, anticipation, aoe…).

Three Mesmer specific things “need” toning down – PU, CS and and BD (blinding dissipation of course, not bountiful disillusionment!)
Global damage numbers and stats need rebalancing to temper burst across all classes.

That’s it as far as Mesmer is concerned.

I can agree with the issue of mesmers summoning phantasms or proccing power lock and keeping stealth. However, wanting to remove that and reduce their stealth uptime just tells me that they want mesmers to be easy kills and are not interested in improving the game at all.

DaShi.1368:

A ranger is here asking for stealth to be removed from mesmers. Unbelievable. Not long ago, rangers were telling me that they only focus on their own profession and don’t go around trying to get other professions nerfed. :lol:

All rangers aren’t one monolithic ranger blob.
Not even all longbow rangers.
Not even all pew-pew stand-in-one-spot-getting-one-shot-by-Mirror longbow rangers.

ASP.8093:

DaShi.1368:

A ranger is here asking for stealth to be removed from mesmers. Unbelievable. Not long ago, rangers were telling me that they only focus on their own profession and don’t go around trying to get other professions nerfed. :lol:

All rangers aren’t one monolithic ranger blob.
Not even all longbow rangers.
Not even all pew-pew stand-in-one-spot-getting-one-shot-by-Mirror longbow rangers.

So one of the most prolific “buff ranger” posters isn’t here and in the PvP forum trying to get mesmers nerfed and there isn’t a nerf mesmer thread in the ranger forum right now? Right….

I’m just saying there’s literally no reason to think of one person’s PvF nonsense as representative of the typical players of entire profession.

There’s very little reason to think of an entire board’s consensus as representative of the typical players of an entire profession, even.

Oh, I do believe there are exceptions.

I dunno, I feel like just slotting PU is pretty sacrificial on its own because if you’re running GS you probably have Dom line, which means you’ve significantly kitten the trait options you can run by picking Chaos with it. Additionally, Chaos has the Chaotic Interruption trait which, in my personal opinion, is far, far better. I never trait PU (except a quick swap-to while doing long stealth runs in PvE/Dungeons), but this is just my personal opinion.

If you think that grabbing PU is worth the losses (and makes a Mesmer significantly stronger in doing so), then that’s understandable, but I personally don’t see why.

Remove Mesmer’s stealth but make the clones mimic every movement of the mesmer

yiksing.9432:

Remove Mesmer’s stealth but make the clones mimic every movement of the mesmer

I don’t think you’ve really thought this one through.

Firelysm.4967:

Stealth is not mesmer thing, and should be removed, but before you go nuts read till the end.

I would remove all mesmer stealths except veil and implement mechanics that would allow mesmers to switch between illusions phantasms and any kind of clones, this way mesmer would actually have to position wisely, stealth is out of place because there is no counter to stealt.

Mesmer does not fit stealth role, it fits illusions, and confusion. People should be confused targeting CORRECT TARGET, not picking one of the targets and have them pick 100% wrong, because mesmer is in stealth.

I wont go into too much detail here as the argument you’ve made is very broad. I have read your entire post as well as the ensuing replies.

I ask this with respect, but who are you to decide what is and what isn’t a mesmer thing?

And by the way, in Guildwars 1, mesmers did not even have clones or phantasms.

To put all this into context for you, I multi class. I really do not have a favored profession as I like to try all sorts of different play styles and builds.

I’m telling you this because there is no single class or build that doesn’t have a counter. Another way to say that is, there is no profession that is dominant against all other classes. Otherwise you would see one class overwhelmingly represented in pvp and wvw. So whilst the class and build you play is useful and perhaps even powerful against other classes, maybe it’s meant to be that you find some mesmers difficult to deal with.

The best advice I can give you is to play mesmer in pvp and learn the class nuances inside out.

Note that I refer to the Mesmer in its entirety. Not just that they can stealth. A mesmer has a few things that count against it. Low HP, light armor and extremely susceptible to condition pressure.

You dismissed as laughable the response of another poster the exact things you need to learn in order to beat a mesmer.

Timing, Positioning, Prediction.

I will add one more. Actually knowing the class from playing it.

If you had come in here and actually asked us how to beat a PU mesmer you’d be well on your way to wrecking some of them already.

Because at the end of the day, you can make all the noise you want about stealth on a mesmer, it will not change a thing.

The question you should ask yourself is, what are you actually going to do about it?

What is the deal with people complaining about mesmers…lets be frank this update is by far the only update out of how many kitten years did a mesmer buff actually mean something…
Past years if it wasn’t “fixing” a bug or “removing” something that wasn’t meant to be there and those little “indirect” nerfs i mean seriously too many to count.
We have had SO many nerfs to our kit and yet some of our skills from day 1 are still clunky as crap for example our iLeap is still super clunky now even worse because you need to be in the Line of Sight w/e that means.
Finally a mesmer gets to be in the spot light and suddenly everyone complains about it lol.
Like the person above me says, you want to learn to beat a profession or a build ask a specific question or better yet play the profession yourself it will save you the time and embarrassment.

It’s not like people complaining about PU mesmer is new. PU has already received a nerf. And for the record to anyone else frustrated by PU mesmers:-

1. A mesmer in stealth can only attack you via phantasm attack and clone and whatever conditions the clones can apply.

2. Most clones and phantasms are a 1 SHOT kill from an autoattack. ANY autoattack.

3. Clones do negligible physical damage.

4. All clone on death traits have been removed. There is ZERO consequence to killing a clone or a phantasm.

5. If you kill the clones and phantasms, you will mitigate a crap tonne of damage and conditions caused by shattering.

6. You will also nullify any passive clone traits. I.e Ether feast heal is more beneficial with active illusions

Now that’s just a small portion of things to learn when it comes from facing mesmers, but I gaurantee you, you will find an easier time of it if you keep these things in mind.

Newer players…or dare I say it, players whom have simply never learnt how to deal with mesmers will always fare badly if you let a mesmer dictate when a clone or phantasm is used. This is true of any mesmer build.

Royale.5863:

4. All clone on death traits have been removed. There is ZERO consequence to killing a clone or a phantasm.

Actually, there’s one consequence but most people won’t trait it because it’s not worthwhile. Persisting Images will give 6s of Retal on Phants that does not refresh. I haven’t tested but it may still be possible to double-Retal via iDefender.

Just wanted to point that out.

DaShi.1368:

I can agree with the issue of mesmers summoning phantasms or proccing power lock and keeping stealth. However, wanting to remove that and reduce their stealth uptime just tells me that they want mesmers to be easy kills and are not interested in improving the game at all.

Power lock proc reveals.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Revealed is not a counter to stealth. It can do nothing on ppl who are in stealth. It has power on ppl who are not. This is the real problem with stealth. It lacks counter play .

Firelysm, you are correct! also.

Mak.2657:

DaShi.1368:

I can agree with the issue of mesmers summoning phantasms or proccing power lock and keeping stealth. However, wanting to remove that and reduce their stealth uptime just tells me that they want mesmers to be easy kills and are not interested in improving the game at all.

Power lock proc reveals.

Thanks. I wasn’t 100% sure of this. I thought I used it once and kept stealth, but now that I think back, it might have been a non-interrupt daze.

STEALTH is thief’s mechanic not mesmer’s.

Mesmer’s mechanic is all about clones and stealth is just like a sub skill that comes with it. Which means mesmer’s stealth shouldnt be better than thief’s.

u guys are saying that going into stealth so easily without hitting cnd or hs+bp combo almost no revealed , 30+sec stealth duration stacking is not op?

btw i dueled d/p thief and i could stay in stealth forever more than d/p thief does and u guys really thinking this is normal? Lol

DaShi.1368:

Thanks. I wasn’t 100% sure of this. I thought I used it once and kept stealth, but now that I think back, it might have been a non-interrupt daze.

Yep, I tested it in hotm.

The mechanic of a profession, the skills, their balance , etc. Is a decision of the developers and game designers. And they can add, remove or change from his game whatever they want.

And us, as players, decide if we like it and want to play or not. Even when sometimes devs read/listen our ideas, those ideas are nothing in the game, only wishes/opinions until they implement it.

If they tomorrow decide to remove stealth completely in the game, or add to thief/mesmer/X a flypaper as new weapon in his game is their decision. Not what we think it should be.

MidoriMarch.8067:

STEALTH is thief’s mechanic not mesmer’s.

Mesmer’s mechanic is all about clones and stealth is just like a sub skill that comes with it. Which means mesmer’s stealth shouldnt be better than thief’s.

u guys are saying that going into stealth so easily without hitting cnd or hs+bp combo almost no revealed , 30+sec stealth duration stacking is not op?

btw i dueled d/p thief and i could stay in stealth forever more than d/p thief does and u guys really thinking this is normal? Lol

Has someone stated in another forum, if we talk about what a class should and shouldn’t be (which clearly isn’t our privilege to argue) mesmers are master of illusions. The stealth they use is in fact invisibility made by bending the light around them (hence why veil is a light field and why mesmers stealth doesn’t stack with others )
Beside, mesmer gain nothing relevant in being in stealth for 30 sec. He get buffs that are usually gone when he gets revealed and he can reset a fight, which also affect the other player mind you. But having 30 sec of stealth uptime makes just more of a sacrifice of one if your passive procs or if you accidently AA and reveal yourself. You don’t get a buff by staying in stealth thousands of seconds… It’s annoying, yes. Needs a shave? Yes. Game breaking and in need of a hammer nerf that will blast it into oblivion? No.

MidoriMarch.8067:

STEALTH is thief’s mechanic not mesmer’s.

Mesmer’s mechanic is all about clones and stealth is just like a sub skill that comes with it. Which means mesmer’s stealth shouldnt be better than thief’s.

u guys are saying that going into stealth so easily without hitting cnd or hs+bp combo almost no revealed , 30+sec stealth duration stacking is not op?

btw i dueled d/p thief and i could stay in stealth forever more than d/p thief does and u guys really thinking this is normal? Lol

Oh ok, then let’s remove Poisons, Traps, Tricks, Cantrips, and Steal from Thieves, while removing Stealth from Blasting/Leaping Combos, Ranger, Engineer, and Mesmer.