So in reality they could actually gain in performance if they moved to DX12 and 64-bit, they’re just not doing it, because the gain would be “minimal”? How do they know without actually trying it out and then starting to optimize for it?
So in reality they could actually gain in performance if they moved to DX12 and 64-bit, they’re just not doing it, because the gain would be “minimal”? How do they know without actually trying it out and then starting to optimize for it?
There was Guild Wars Guru or Guild Wars 2 Guru Q&A session pre core game launch one the Dev’s said DX isn’t in any of the Dev’s skill set.
Still looking for a link to it…..
“If only ANet had some kind of forum they could use to communicate with us……”
“ANet. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to not mess up.”
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Well it’s good he’s engaging in constructive dialogue but it seems somewhat short-sighted. I have Windows 10 which doesn’t even have native DirectX 9 support (Windows 7 mode automatically triggers with Guild Wars 2 and playing at 8k resolution for screenshots is no longer possible and crash a lot during big events )
Before you guys discuss DX12 performance, I suggest you gather more information. Check this video of Chris Roberts talking about Star Citizen development on these new APIs, for instance. https://youtu.be/XD9_L5o4mhQ
In short, anyone can port a DX11 game to DX12 in a couple of days, but they wouldn’t take advantage of DX12 benefits. It isn’t that simple and it would take a complete overhaul of GW2’s engine.
So in reality they could actually gain in performance if they moved to DX12 and 64-bit, they’re just not doing it, because the gain would be “minimal”? How do they know without actually trying it out and then starting to optimize for it?
What makes you so sure they haven’t?
Because we would have an option to switch between different DX paths by now, if they did.
In short, anyone can port a DX11 game to DX12 in a couple of days, but they wouldn’t take advantage of DX12 benefits. It isn’t that simple and it would take a complete overhaul of GW2’s engine.
Before you guys discuss DX12 performance, I suggest you gather more information. Check this video of Chris Roberts talking about Star Citizen development on these new APIs, for instance. https://youtu.be/XD9_L5o4mhQ
In short, anyone can port a DX11 game to DX12 in a couple of days, but they wouldn’t take advantage of DX12 benefits. It isn’t that simple and it would take a complete overhaul of GW2’s engine.
Except the game isn’t Dx11, it’s Dx9. Porting from Dx10 to Dx11 is also fairly trivial but Dx9 to Dx10 isn’t. And a primary benefits of Dx11, the ability to multithread the render code, will still not be beneficial to us until ANet can make their data thread safe (as mentioned in the reddit post).
As for Agemnon’s assertion that Win 10 doesn’t support Dx9. BS, the game runs therefore Dx9 is supported. The DLLs are found in the Windows folder. You simply can’t use the Dx Runtime Components package to update them in Windows 10 because what was shipped are the final versions of Dx9.
Because we would have an option to switch between different DX paths by now, if they did.
Not unless they released it to the public. Stuff like that however are rather easy to test in-house, so it is fully possible that they have tested it and figured it simply wouldn’t be worth it.
Has anyone noticed that gw2 seems to rely much more on the CPU than the GPU? Are you noticing a lack of multi-core utilization? Wish gw2 could run a bit better? There is an answer to these questions… Vote for DirectX12 support!
Too long has gw2 been confined to the ancient limitations of dx9. It is time to make your voice heard! If ANET were to rewrite gw2 in dx12, we would see massive performance gains! Why confine the game to a single core when we can use all the cores? Dx12 has massive gains over dx11, imagine what the gain over dx9 would be!
I want to see the marvelous world that ANET has sculpted better than ever before. I want to be able to use the full power of my system to make it sharp as it can be.
Are you with me?
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Well right now they seem to be going in the opposite direction with all the visual nerfs but either way I think you underestimate the effort required to rewrite the game for another graphical API.
And they already stated on Reddit a while backwhy dx12 wont give the game the big boost ppl believe it would.
What that Dev said isn’t the gospel as you and others making it out to be as clearly the Dev isn’t up to date on his info. Before core game was release Anet was asked if GW2 will have DX11 the Dev’s response was “DX isn’t in any of our skill sets”. Besides Anet is looking for someone with current DX12/Mantel API skill set so who knows what that will bring if anything.
“If only ANet had some kind of forum they could use to communicate with us……”
“ANet. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to not mess up.”
Mod “Posts created to cause unrest with unfounded claims are not allowed” lmao
I think it’s very presumptuous of everyone to constantly say GW2 is “poorly optimized”.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but what evidence do we have?
From my observations, I think the network is the real bottleneck – the game has no trouble rendering large numbers of entities, but the network traffic for 70 people to play together is kind of insane.
Maybe a graphics overhaul would make sense in 4-5 more years, but not at this point.
I think it’s very presumptuous of everyone to constantly say GW2 is “poorly optimized”.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but what evidence do we have?
From my observations, I think the network is the real bottleneck – the game has no trouble rendering large numbers of entities, but the network traffic for 70 people to play together is kind of insane.
Maybe a graphics overhaul would make sense in 4-5 more years, but not at this point.
Well one could argue that the out of memory issues that plagued the 32 bit client is poorly optimized to handle 32 bit client memory restrictions. 64 Bit client is just a band aid fix/workaround to the out of memory issue that they haven’t been able to fix for over 3 years.
“If only ANet had some kind of forum they could use to communicate with us……”
“ANet. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to not mess up.”
Mod “Posts created to cause unrest with unfounded claims are not allowed” lmao
I think it’s very presumptuous of everyone to constantly say GW2 is “poorly optimized”.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but what evidence do we have?
From my observations, I think the network is the real bottleneck – the game has no trouble rendering large numbers of entities, but the network traffic for 70 people to play together is kind of insane.
Maybe a graphics overhaul would make sense in 4-5 more years, but not at this point.
Well one could argue that the out of memory issues that plagued the 32 bit client is poorly optimized to handle 32 bit client memory restrictions. 64 Bit client is just a band aid fix/workaround to the out of memory issue that they haven’t been able to fix for over 3 years.
32 bit systems can only address 4GB of RAM and if you need more than that, you have to use all sorts of tricks. Don’t blame Anet, blame binary.
As for DX9 and 32bit: Moving off of DX9 wouldn’t buy us a whole lot performance wise, as all interaction with DirectX is happening on the render thread, which is generally not the bottleneck.
To lazy to look up the last thread on this topic but here’s the game dev’s explanation as to performance issues.
I think it’s very presumptuous of everyone to constantly say GW2 is “poorly optimized”.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but what evidence do we have?
From my observations, I think the network is the real bottleneck – the game has no trouble rendering large numbers of entities, but the network traffic for 70 people to play together is kind of insane.
Maybe a graphics overhaul would make sense in 4-5 more years, but not at this point.
Well one could argue that the out of memory issues that plagued the 32 bit client is poorly optimized to handle 32 bit client memory restrictions. 64 Bit client is just a band aid fix/workaround to the out of memory issue that they haven’t been able to fix for over 3 years.
32 bit systems can only address 4GB of RAM and if you need more than that, you have to use all sorts of tricks. Don’t blame Anet, blame binary.
You act like I don’t already know that the 32 bit has memory limitations? lmao read my post. Also I can blame Anet since clearly they didn’t program something correctly in the first place regardless of 32 bit system/4GB limit. If they program everything correctly the 32 bit client wouldn’t have had out of memory issues like it does. You can try to defend Anet all you want or you can polish a kitten so many ways, it doesn’t change the fact that there is something wrong in the code.
“If only ANet had some kind of forum they could use to communicate with us……”
“ANet. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to not mess up.”
Mod “Posts created to cause unrest with unfounded claims are not allowed” lmao
As for DX9 and 32bit: Moving off of DX9 wouldn’t buy us a whole lot performance wise, as all interaction with DirectX is happening on the render thread, which is generally not the bottleneck.
To lazy to look up the last thread on this topic but here’s the game dev’s explanation as to performance issues.
Sounds like a pretty lazy reply… heck I get almost the same performance in gw2 as in Star Citizen and everyone knows how badly optimized that is right now… (being in pre-alpha, optimization is low priority)
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Recently I roll back from Windows 10 to 8.1. The performance and stability are much better off. Unless running on the latest hardware, DX12 won’t be truly optimized.
Recently I roll back from Windows 10 to 8.1. The performance and stability are much better off. Unless running on the latest hardware, DX12 won’t be truly optimized.
GW1 minimum is DX8. Recommended is DX9. It’s also been a few years since GW1 as well. Newer games that are out use DX11. At the very least move to 11. If they want to make the claim to improving the game and making things grow, start with that.
If ANET were to rewrite gw2 in dx12, we would see massive performance gains! Why confine the game to a single core when we can use all the cores? Dx12 has massive gains over dx11, imagine what the gain over dx9 would be
Too bad the reality doesnt work like that.
Multi-core optimization for GW2 has little to do with DX11 or 12. Just slapping DX12 on it would accomplish very little. Like driving a Volvo 240 at 50mph and claiming that if you swap it to a Koenigsegg at 50mph, its now faster than 50mph. No.
I want to see the marvelous world that ANET has sculpted better than ever before. I want to be able to use the full power of my system to make it sharp as it can be.
DX12 isn’t going to help you much then, it’s more a marketing exercise to coerce people on to Windows 10 than anything else.
The enormous amount of effort that would be required to completely rewrite the code to support DX12, with absolutely no financial reimbursement from the community or anyone else is ludicrous, and a bad business decision.
No one is going to buy more black lion keys as a result, and I haven’t seen a single thread from a player starting this is why their friend or dog isn’t buying the game.
I would LOVE DX12 or even 10 or 11, but the reality is that that would just be way, way, way too much of a time investment and is probably one of the things that’s “not on the table”.
It’s just too much work for too little effort. I’d rather see improvements to the system as it currently stands, like fixing High-level Shaders and clipping and texture bugs (looking at you Mistward Tassets).
They can sell more copies of the game with dx9. However considering the hardware requirements slowly creeping up, it’s not far fetched to redo the engine one day as dx12. But to be honest, I bet we’d more than likely have Guild Wars 3 before ever being faced with a dx12 update for GW2.
JediYoda, please cite your sources as to why the dev in question isn’t up to date, and the interview in question as to DX isn’t in their skill set. Also, if you can get another dev to chime in on this issue it’d be greatly appreciated.
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Make it three. DX12 is restricted to Win 10 as far as I know (sorry if this is wrong, it was the last I heard about it) and no, thanks, I don’t want Win 10 for now.
Also, yeah having the most up-to-date and shinny stuff always seems to be great, but have any of you defending GW2 upgraded to DX12 considered everything involved? Are any of you a programmer or game developer? As others stated here such “upgrade” would require a lot of effort and rewriting the game engine from ground up, in this case it would be a lot easier to come with a GW3 then rewriting a whole 3 year worth of content game. Have you even pondered how much work is it?
Just a thing: the newest isn’t always the best.
How would it solve the 32bits limitation issue? What about those with still 2 cores processor (yes they still exist)? Would it make any difference for them?
It’s easy to demand stuff without thinking on the whole stuff involved and what or who is affected. Like “I want it, if others will have trouble it’s their business, I don’t care”. I want chocolate too, I don’t care about DX12 :P
JediYoda, please cite your sources as to why the dev in question isn’t up to date, and the interview in question as to DX isn’t in their skill set. Also, if you can get another dev to chime in on this issue it’d be greatly appreciated.
Nope, I’m not going to waste my time going to Guildwars2.guru and other fan sites for a link to an Q/A interview from over 3 years ago. The main reason why I know this because it was my question the interviewer asked the Dev during the Q/A session.
I don’t have any connections to any of the Dev’s, Anet’s job posting list opening for graphic/api programmer.
“If only ANet had some kind of forum they could use to communicate with us……”
“ANet. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to not mess up.”
Mod “Posts created to cause unrest with unfounded claims are not allowed” lmao
They can sell more copies of the game with dx9. However considering the hardware requirements slowly creeping up, it’s not far fetched to redo the engine one day as dx12. But to be honest, I bet we’d more than likely have Guild Wars 3 before ever being faced with a dx12 update for GW2.
Not only that, but unfortunately trends are going towards simplified mechanics and lowered skill ceilings so Guild Wars 3 will very likely not be worth playing unless it’s a Phantasy Star Online 2 clone set in the GW ‘verse and without the excessive instancing of Phantasy Star 2 and controllers wouldn’t be optional (Steam controller would look good for such a game). Dark Souls has simpler mechanics but it works in full on singleplayer action games whereas RPGs, even action RPGs like Guild Wars 2 derive their fun from intricate complex systems that need mastering, but still having player skill itself being the most important thing with gear build and traits only playing a secondary role.
The two that were interviewed were specifically talking about themselves and not Andt as a whole.
That’s the one, I’ve tried looking for it before with no luck thus why I wasn’t going to waste time looking for it again, thanks for finding it.
“If only ANet had some kind of forum they could use to communicate with us……”
“ANet. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity to not mess up.”
Mod “Posts created to cause unrest with unfounded claims are not allowed” lmao
All of you saying no thanks are just being silly. Every game that adds support for the latest DX version still supports its original version. So unless anet is a bunch of morons(which I don’t believe is the case) I’m pretty sure everyone still using win 7 and 8 will still be able to play. Adding DX 12 support will help with CPU lag just like the 64bit client helped with the RAM crashes. Not sure why anyone would be against this as DX 12 support is a great feature
sure!
DX12 is yours!
we’ll give it you in our super magical DXadventurer bundle!
for the sweet price of 8000 gems you get:
DX12, 2 super dooper outfits, a repair canister, 2 and a half speed boosts and a carrot.
All of you saying no thanks are just being silly. Every game that adds support for the latest DX version still supports its original version. So unless anet is a bunch of morons(which I don’t believe is the case) I’m pretty sure everyone still using win 7 and 8 will still be able to play. Adding DX 12 support will help with CPU lag just like the 64bit client helped with the RAM crashes. Not sure why anyone would be against this as DX 12 support is a great feature
Not only that but it allows devs more creative leeway and flexibility. In DirectX11 or 12 a witch hat could have a perfectly round rim instead of an octagonal one for example. Some people say the game’s graphics are good, but I disagree for the reason given before (in addition to clipping issues). The graphics are good enough but not exactly Crysis 3, so with a higher DirectX version they can improve graphics while making it less of a strain on people’s systems. Combined with Pascal’s dramatic performance boost over Maxwell (to say nothing of Fermi, which many players still have) there’s so much room for radical increases. If a GTX 670 has playable framerates at 4k imagine what a GTX 1080 or even 1070 would have, not just with enhanced processing power but HBM2.
The devs should assume players have a GTX 960 on average and work from there.
I think it’s very presumptuous of everyone to constantly say GW2 is “poorly optimized”.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but what evidence do we have?
From my observations, I think the network is the real bottleneck – the game has no trouble rendering large numbers of entities, but the network traffic for 70 people to play together is kind of insane.
Maybe a graphics overhaul would make sense in 4-5 more years, but not at this point.
Well one could argue that the out of memory issues that plagued the 32 bit client is poorly optimized to handle 32 bit client memory restrictions. 64 Bit client is just a band aid fix/workaround to the out of memory issue that they haven’t been able to fix for over 3 years.
It’s not that the 32bit client wasn’t optimized for 32bit restrictions, it’s that 32bit restrictions weren’t made with modern mmorpgs in mind.
(to put it in perspective 32bit operating systems started in the 90s)
The fact of the matter is optimization is just that optimization There are only so many optimization tricks that can be done until you reach the point where you just can’t make it require less.
Of course there are other tricks to fixing 32bit, For example Bioware’s SW:TOR fixed the memory problem by having the game run two different instances.
All of you saying no thanks are just being silly. Every game that adds support for the latest DX version still supports its original version. So unless anet is a bunch of morons(which I don’t believe is the case) I’m pretty sure everyone still using win 7 and 8 will still be able to play. Adding DX 12 support will help with CPU lag just like the 64bit client helped with the RAM crashes. Not sure why anyone would be against this as DX 12 support is a great feature
Not only that but it allows devs more creative leeway and flexibility. In DirectX11 or 12 a witch hat could have a perfectly round rim instead of an octagonal one for example. Some people say the game’s graphics are good, but I disagree for the reason given before (in addition to clipping issues). The graphics are good enough but not exactly Crysis 3, so with a higher DirectX version they can improve graphics while making it less of a strain on people’s systems. Combined with Pascal’s dramatic performance boost over Maxwell (to say nothing of Fermi, which many players still have) there’s so much room for radical increases. If a GTX 670 has playable framerates at 4k imagine what a GTX 1080 or even 1070 would have, not just with enhanced processing power but HBM2.
The devs should assume players have a GTX 960 on average and work from there.
Oh boy, i feel so ancient with my 460M…
And for the DXxx debate, just forget it, or wait for GW3, or something like that.
I wouldn’t mind it so much if it took full advantage of my FX8350’s 8 cores…but no…it doesn’t.
EDIT: If there is a way for the game to take advantage of all 8 cores, please tell me.
There isn’t. The game engine only has two major threads and a handful of minor threads. What hurts the FX series (well anything that uses the Bulldozer architecture) is your per core performance isn’t all that great.
I would think the move to DX 10 , 11, 12, or all of those at the same time would have to be more than just support. I mean I’m assuming what is being asked here is that the current feature set be driven by the newer DX than 9 but otherwise the game stays visually the same without any new features. If they were to go beyond DX9 I would think taking advantage of all the visual features and such of those DX would be in order as well.
And I imagine the time required to do so would be significant to such that they would need a dedicated team working on that. Which means one of two things; hiring a whole new team in addition to the current staff or reassigning from the current staff to form the additional team. I doubt the game can afford to take developers off of the current teams to form the team. Which leaves hiring a new team. Can they do that? sure; will they do it? who knows; should they do it? If they want to visually enhance the game more than it is, then yes they should.
However to get more FPS how much do you really need. I mean with my i5 3570k 16GB of 2400 RAM, and a single GTX 970 I’m over 60FPS everywhere in the game at maximum settings in game and additional visual quality enhancements at driver level. Not to mention that prior to this upgrade GW2 had come quite a ways in performance from when the game launched. I had, from beta to just before buying the 970, a GTX 460. My FPS at in game max settings at launch we about 20 FPS. And just before upgrading to the 970 that went up to 40FPS including driver level enhancements to visual quality. If I took the drivers back to default settings and used only in game max settings that went up to 45FPS.
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