Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it. Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
We’ve crossed that time point. Arena net needs to send me my 2 gold and 10AP.
But how does ANet differentiate between those who did their daily before the rollback and those that didn’t? It would be easy to tell those who did before the patch and those who didn’t.
If they do stay down until too close to reset time tomorrow, then one could argue for giving players a free daily. But not for today. Especially considering today is patch day. Players should not expect every patch day to go smoothly and should plan accordingly. It would also be different if today was not a regularly scheduled patch day.
I at least partially disagree. I think it is 100% reasonable to expect a fully playable, bug-free game immediately following a patch.
Yes, MMO’s have a history of iffy bug-filled if not game-breaking patches.
ANet is selling a product (or, depending on how you look at it, providing paid support for a product), whether you’re F2P or not.
As such, as a paying customer (let’s not argue semantics on “paying” here, I know it’s not sub based) it is our right as a consumer to expect a fully functioning product (in this case, perfection). Maybe not demand it, that goes a bit far. Now normally, the result of a defective product is the company repairs or replaces it in a timely manner at no charge. Well, that doesn’t really work with an MMO, since you can’t simply return anything. Which leads to a precedent that goes as far back as at least EQ1: Compensation.
Pretty much every online-component game that either ate items or was down for a significant amount of time has provided some form of compensation for that.
-In EQ1, when a bug ate a player corpse (fell through the world, you had to recover your items off your dead body with your new body), the game masters would restore your items and usually all of the lost exp (you lost a significant amount of experience when you died). And depending on how long it took them to do it, sometimes threw you a “we’re sorry” novelty/trinket item (I kept getting stacks of beer). I don’t know exactly how they did it, but they were able to maintain logs of every item you had and even which slot it was equipped/stored in.
-In WoW, if the servers were down more than 24 hours your account was credited a prorated amount generally equal to total downtime plus 10%, because it was subscription based. If it was down between 8 and 23.9 hours but went down due to a game-breaking bug/glitch, they usually comped you a full day anyway but didn’t really have to, as a form of “we screwed up, sorry”. Can’t have customers paying for a product they can’t use.
Given the vast number of computer systems out there and companies having no way to test against that, I would not expect any patch to be completely bug free.
Should most patches be free of major game/product breaking bugs? Yes.
But one should never go into patch day thinking that this patch won’t be the minority that has one.
For a non-subscription based game, unless the problems last for more than ~24 hours, I don’t feel there needs to be any compensation given out to every player. ANet’s willing to work with players saying they got a precursor or other such extremely rare item during the time frame that will be erased.
Glad I play evenings; I lose nothing. Als, VERY much appreciate the transparency. No matter what anyone else says, you guys are doing good simply by talking to us and explaining.
On the matter of compensation, I think the ONLY ‘compensation’ warranted is extending the sale one day, or even twelve hours, to preserve the amount of time things are available on it. It’s the only thing short-term enough to BE significantly impacted by the downtime.
About testing: all the in-house testing in the world won’t guarantee something might slip by and only get noticed live. Others have already explained the chaotic mess that MMO code is far better than I ever could, but it’s very easy to add something, test it every way you can think of, send it down, and then learn something seemingly-unrelated somehow broke.
Lastly…. I think this might be the first time a game bug actually mandated this game roll its servers back… ever. I certainly can’t recall it having been done, and I’ve been playing near-daily since launch.
I’ve seen a lot more whining and kittening from free-to-play MMO on down times so I’m not at all annoyed by the whining and begging- it’s really minuscule compared to some others I’ve seen over 2 hour down times instead of all day like this one.
I’ll sleep this off and hope to wake up this morning as if it was this morning =~=
pray my items, money, and levels remain.
cuz i’ll know (?w(•)?
?w? •w?
?_??
Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it. Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
I dont mean to sound like a **** but i paid for the game, 2 special additions infact for the rytlock figures, and consistently pay in by buying not only HoT but other gem items I dont rent my account, its mine. They dont do the work, they dont earn the AP I do. Im not looking for any compensation but i cant stand that ‘’Anet owns it’’ mentality. When they put in the farming time and so on that I do then they can call it theirs
Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it. Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
I dont mean to sound like a **** but i paid for the game, 2 special additions infact for the rytlock figures, and consistently pay in by buying not only HoT but other gem items I dont rent my account, its mine. They dont do the work, they dont earn the AP I do. Im not looking for any compensation but i cant stand that ‘’Anet owns it’’ mentality. When they put in the farming time and so on that I do then they can call it theirs
Read the TOS. You don’t own the game. You bought a license to play the game.
I’ll sleep this off and hope to wake up this morning as if it was this morning =~=
pray my items, money, and levels remain.
cuz i’ll know (?w(•)?
?w? •w?
?_??
Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it. Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
I dont mean to sound like a **** but i paid for the game, 2 special additions infact for the rytlock figures, and consistently pay in by buying not only HoT but other gem items I dont rent my account, its mine. They dont do the work, they dont earn the AP I do. Im not looking for any compensation but i cant stand that ‘’Anet owns it’’ mentality. When they put in the farming time and so on that I do then they can call it theirs
You can say you own it all you want, but the contract you sign says otherwise.
Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it. Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
I dont mean to sound like a **** but i paid for the game, 2 special additions infact for the rytlock figures, and consistently pay in by buying not only HoT but other gem items I dont rent my account, its mine. They dont do the work, they dont earn the AP I do. Im not looking for any compensation but i cant stand that ‘’Anet owns it’’ mentality. When they put in the farming time and so on that I do then they can call it theirs
You can say you own it all you want, but the contract you sign says otherwise.
Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it.
Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
I dont mean to sound like a **** but i paid for the game, 2 special additions infact for the rytlock figures, and consistently pay in by buying not only HoT but other gem
items I dont rent my account, its mine. They dont do the work, they dont earn the AP I do. Im not looking for any compensation but i cant stand that ‘’Anet owns it’’ mentality. When they put in the farming time and so on that I do then they can call it theirs
You can say you own it all you want, but the contract you sign says otherwise.
Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it. Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
I dont mean to sound like a **** but i paid for the game, 2 special additions infact for the rytlock figures, and consistently pay in by buying not only HoT but other gem items I dont rent my account, its mine. They dont do the work, they dont earn the AP I do. Im not looking for any compensation but i cant stand that ‘’Anet owns it’’ mentality. When they put in the farming time and so on that I do then they can call it theirs
It’s not a mentality, it’s a legality. At some point the game is going to shut down, hopefully not for many, many years, but like every MMO that day will come. When it does, they can shut it down because it is theirs, not yours.
Jaina Kitten, Level 80 Elementalist, Main
Yak’s Bend – Expletus
Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it. Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
We’ve crossed that time point. Arena net needs to send me my 2 gold and 10AP.
But how does ANet differentiate between those who did their daily before the rollback and those that didn’t? It would be easy to tell those who did before the patch and those who didn’t.
If they do stay down until too close to reset time tomorrow, then one could argue for giving players a free daily. But not for today. Especially considering today is patch day. Players should not expect every patch day to go smoothly and should plan accordingly. It would also be different if today was not a regularly scheduled patch day.
I at least partially disagree. I think it is 100% reasonable to expect a fully playable, bug-free game immediately following a patch.
Yes, MMO’s have a history of iffy bug-filled if not game-breaking patches.
ANet is selling a product (or, depending on how you look at it, providing paid support for a product), whether you’re F2P or not.
As such, as a paying customer (let’s not argue semantics on “paying” here, I know it’s not sub based) it is our right as a consumer to expect a fully functioning product (in this case, perfection). Maybe not demand it, that goes a bit far. Now normally, the result of a defective product is the company repairs or replaces it in a timely manner at no charge. Well, that doesn’t really work with an MMO, since you can’t simply return anything. Which leads to a precedent that goes as far back as at least EQ1: Compensation.
Pretty much every online-component game that either ate items or was down for a significant amount of time has provided some form of compensation for that.
-In EQ1, when a bug ate a player corpse (fell through the world, you had to recover your items off your dead body with your new body), the game masters would restore your items and usually all of the lost exp (you lost a significant amount of experience when you died). And depending on how long it took them to do it, sometimes threw you a “we’re sorry” novelty/trinket item (I kept getting stacks of beer). I don’t know exactly how they did it, but they were able to maintain logs of every item you had and even which slot it was equipped/stored in.
-In WoW, if the servers were down more than 24 hours your account was credited a prorated amount generally equal to total downtime plus 10%, because it was subscription based. If it was down between 8 and 23.9 hours but went down due to a game-breaking bug/glitch, they usually comped you a full day anyway but didn’t really have to, as a form of “we screwed up, sorry”. Can’t have customers paying for a product they can’t use.
Given the vast number of computer systems out there and companies having no way to test against that, I would not expect any patch to be completely bug free.
Should most patches be free of major game/product breaking bugs? Yes.
But one should never go into patch day thinking that this patch won’t be the minority that has one.
For a non-subscription based game, unless the problems last for more than ~24 hours, I don’t feel there needs to be any compensation given out to every player. ANet’s willing to work with players saying they got a precursor or other such extremely rare item during the time frame that will be erased.
I perhaps wasn’t too clear.
I’m not saying in this particular instance that ANet owes every single account something (and my original post was made before they announced they’ll work with people on stuff like precursors). I’m saying I’m mostly against the people who’ve been saying “they under no circumstances owe anybody anything”. At least in part due to GW2 not being subscription based.
Am I frustrated I couldn’t play most of today? Yeah.
Am I frustrated that I lost precious time this PVP season which is timed and already relatively short? Yeah.
But I also can’t come up with a good way to compensate that fairly, and I’m not gonna ask for high-end items, gems, or artificial progression either. I don’t think those are fair.
This is an update to the situation where soulbound items have been incorrectly soulbound to the wrong characters. After further investigation we’ve determined that there is damage to almost all character records that were played this morning, not just to those who transferred soulbound items to or from a bank. To repair the damage, we will have to roll back the state of the game and characters to prior to this morning’s release.
No one wants to lose a play session’s progress. We apologize for this. I’m sure you’ll also have questions about exactly what a rollback means to you. The general answer is that everything about the game state, including things like trading post transactions, will be restored to how it was prior to this morning’s release. The only unusual case will be that if you purchased the game or purchased gems this morning, you’ll still get your purchase.
The process of rolling back and then validating everything to bring the game back up will take hours. We’ll keep you updated. There will be a period of time when these forums will be unavailable, but we’ll post updates through other channels.
Mo
disconnect issue fields of ruins porting people back on map they where on before not the right area they where on before. also some report of people not able to access fields of ruins, rata-sum or verdant brick on character that where there before the server was close.
should we avoid those maps for the time being, until this get fix?
What are you doing in terms of compensation for this change? I mean, will dailies that were cleared during this period be automatically cleared, or will we just miss out on that daily progression entirely? Will we get our loot compensated somehow? I mean, usually when a game takes things away from players that they have earned, they give something back as fair compensation.
It happens so rarely in GW2 that you may never have experienced it before, but with most games if they have a significant disruption in service, or especially a rollback that wastes hours of time a player has already spent, then they receive something of value roughly equivalent to the time they wasted. Not a Precursor or anything nuts, but something, a batch of gems, Black Lion keys, ticket scraps, something fun that they don’t already have unlocked.
I didn’t lose anything super fancy, but I did miss out on my dailies from yesterday, so they at least owe me 2g, a bunch of Unbound Magic, Bloodstone Dust, and Rubies, and some achievement points, that sort of thing.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
What are you doing in terms of compensation for this change? I mean, will dailies that were cleared during this period be automatically cleared, or will we just miss out on that daily progression entirely? Will we get our loot compensated somehow? I mean, usually when a game takes things away from players that they have earned, they give something back as fair compensation.
It happens so rarely in GW2 that you may never have experienced it before, but with most games if they have a significant disruption in service, or especially a rollback that wastes hours of time a player has already spent, then they receive something of value roughly equivalent to the time they wasted. Not a Precursor or anything nuts, but something, a batch of gems, Black Lion keys, ticket scraps, something fun that they don’t already have unlocked.
I didn’t lose anything super fancy, but I did miss out on my dailies from yesterday, so they at least owe me 2g, a bunch of Unbound Magic, Bloodstone Dust, and Rubies, and some achievement points, that sort of thing.
Lion’s arch chat is a mess, so many people angry and overreacting.
Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it. Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
I dont mean to sound like a **** but i paid for the game, 2 special additions infact for the rytlock figures, and consistently pay in by buying not only HoT but other gem items I dont rent my account, its mine. They dont do the work, they dont earn the AP I do. Im not looking for any compensation but i cant stand that ‘’Anet owns it’’ mentality. When they put in the farming time and so on that I do then they can call it theirs
You can say you own it all you want, but the contract you sign says otherwise.
Well I don’t remember a patch at all yesterday so I think I will not be affected (I say ‘I think’ because I could be being an absolute idiot and forgetting about an update, lol). This is still pretty annoying though because I really need to get to legendary division today because I have been playing 5+ hours of just ranked pvp each day recently and I am still stuck 9 pips away and if I don’t get to play today I will be very, very upset. There are so many things I have to get done every day in pve as well and to miss out on them would just be awful, especially since I have no life and there is pretty much nothing I enjoy doing other than playing this game.
I do appreciate how Anet has told us exactly what is being done and why rather than just shutting down the servers for a bit without us knowing. I don’t play other games so I don’t know if this is the way it is always dealt with but I think it is good that they are telling us. Hopefully the servers will be up soon (or now!).
Rollbacks are bad, mkay, but thanks Anet for being on top of this quickly and sorting out the issue.
Anyone playing cannot claim to have lost a lot of progress simply due to a few hours (out of an up-to 4 years of playing this game).
And I for one cannot remember any other serious incidents like this, so kudos to the Anet team for quickly resolving this!
(I’m still scarred from the time Age of Conan was down for 2 weeks…)
Lord Sazed / Hasla the Huntress / Seaguard Hala
Seamarshal Belit / Initiate Xun Tsu / Mistwarden Roshone
Seafarer’s Rest | Northerner @ Dragon Season
@ Artalion the Sale was flickering red from monday 6pm EU time (sale ends soon, wich means 24 hours left). It ends right after patch. Trade post already had it removing during the playtime after patch.
According to Mike O’brien purchases made in cash shop will not be rolled back, so if you purchased them you should still have them.
So tip for everyone, if it says SALE ENDS SOON (even without timer) it means 24h left, 6pm EU (+1 gmt) time aprox this ends (5-8 hours earlier on day for america, depending where you live). So buy fast, don’t doubt to long.
Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.
I completed the City of Hope segment of the Living Story yesterday afternoon. Today I’ve just logged back in to discover the rollback and my heart’s sunk. I really didn’t enjoy doing those “challenges” for some reason, and have no ganas to do them again right now. I’ve logged back out again – I’m going to go and find something else to do.
@ Artalion the Sale was flickering red from monday 6pm EU time (sale ends soon, wich means 24 hours left). It ends right after patch. Trade post already had it removing during the playtime after patch.
According to Mike O’brien purchases made in cash shop will not be rolled back, so if you purchased them you should still have them.
So tip for everyone, if it says SALE ENDS SOON (even without timer) it means 24h left, 6pm EU (+1 gmt) time aprox this ends (5-8 hours earlier on day for america, depending where you live). So buy fast, don’t doubt to long.
This thread is great, you can clearly see who works in a tech industry and/or has worked on complex systems before. Surprised to see so much compassion for the devs, we must all be of the same breed.
Feels out to the team thats resolving this, kitten happens. Anybody who expects 4 years of a complex system like this with no issues just doesn’t understand systems. Yes be annoyed, but we’re all humans. you lost 1-2 hours ‘work’ playing the game, anet employees probably had hundreds of man hours, sweat and tears just to add the new minigame alone. Remember there’s a real person behind every developer/artist/animator/manager/documentor/analyst/engineer (the list goes on).
Thank you Mike. I know that this was a set back for Arena Net image. But it is good to see when the President of the company comes forward to admit the issue and explain how the issue will be resolved. This is why I am a loyal player to the Guild Wars franchise and Arena Net. Hope to see you and the other ANET peeps at Pax East again.
This is outrageous, still not letting me into the game, and there is no compensation for all the hours I lost by an error produced by you. It is not surprising that there are people who migrate to other games.
I managed to get back in after I used the -repair function on my client, then the network error was fixed. Just google gw2 -repair and it will explain you how to use the command.
As Gaile said, if you get error message, let the game do it’s restart attempt (the automatic thingy) close the game, and restart it. This took me aprox 5 attempts. After that i got in and no issue’s anymore.
Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.
Well RIP most of my dailies… At least I did home instance gather last night…
Game’s been down for way too long. I think at this point some sort of compensation for both the losses in progress and the very long downtime would be right. Even something small.
A reminder. You don’t own your account. Arena net owns it and allows you to use it. Everything is theirs and any progress is their property.
That is true. However, PR wise it would be bad to let too much time go by without giving something in return to players.
I don’t think we’ve crossed that time point yet, however.
I dont mean to sound like a **** but i paid for the game, 2 special additions infact for the rytlock figures, and consistently pay in by buying not only HoT but other gem items I dont rent my account, its mine. They dont do the work, they dont earn the AP I do. Im not looking for any compensation but i cant stand that ‘’Anet owns it’’ mentality. When they put in the farming time and so on that I do then they can call it theirs
Read the TOS. You don’t own the game. You bought a license to play the game.
European Supreme Court says you are wrong.
It was a ruling back in 2012, under EU law i most certainly own my copy of GW2 and no ToS can get me to sign away that right. Legally speaking i could even resell my copy of GW2.
Of course no one has yet dragged a game company infront of a court to execute this right, because that seems like a huge waste of time and effort and undoubtably cost far more than such a resale would ever net, legally speaking you’d be in the right. Provided you are an EU citizen.
These recent rulings are also believed to be the reason why Steam finally caved and did the right thing by adding an option to refund. As they would be in violation of EU law, and sooner or later they’d get smacked for it.
Setting up a refund system is apparently a better business strategy than not serving the EU market anymore.
Read the TOS. You don’t own the game. You bought a license to play the game.
European Supreme Court says you are wrong.
It was a ruling back in 2012, under EU law i most certainly own my copy of GW2 and no ToS can get me to sign away that right. Legally speaking i could even resell my copy of GW2.
Of course no one has yet dragged a game company infront of a court to execute this right, because that seems like a huge waste of time and effort and undoubtably cost far more than such a resale would ever net, legally speaking you’d be in the right. Provided you are an EU citizen.
These recent rulings are also believed to be the reason why Steam finally caved and did the right thing by adding an option to refund. As they would be in violation of EU law, and sooner or later they’d get smacked for it.
Setting up a refund system is apparently a better business strategy than not serving the EU market anymore.
A law that is never applied and is ignored by the gaming company is a law in name only.
Sure you can point at some ruling in a country outside of the gaming companies location but if that law is never enforced then it’s a paper tiger and it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on.
If anyone were to contact support making a claim based on that ruling they’ll be either be shunted off to the lawyers to go round and round with them or support will pull out ToS, read it off to them and then close the discussion. Are they going to sue in small claims court? Maybe they’ll win but good luck in ANet paying any attention to a win or the ruling being enforced by the authorities. The best the player will get is account termination and a refund, and then what good is his claim of account ownership then?
So you can be right and it can make no difference at all.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
no matter how long you testing it there is always something…
.