Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

bullettohead.9715:

Vayne.8563:

bullettohead.9715:

Vayne.8563:

bullettohead.9715:

I would like to point out that there was a typo on the Charr racial shrapnel mine that was there from the second beta weekend (I wasn’t in the first) till just a little bit ago. Months and months and months for a typo.

Right, because it’s a low priority fix. Ever notice the box when you report bugs that say blocks progress. Those are the high priority fixes. Guesting and culling were high priority updates. The higher the priority the faster it gets done. I’m sure there are other typos in the game…so?

When I had to have back surgery, I went on a waiting list. I was like pretty high on the list but it still took 2.5 years to get the surgery. Why? Higher priority cases kept popping up. This is how companies do business.

Stop the presses! Drop everything! There’s a typo!

It kinda doesn’t work that way.

That analogy is flawed in the sense that having 300 doctors work on you at once is impossible.

I cannot imagine that such a small bug was pushed off to the side for MONTHS. If it took a lot of time and effort, something is terribly wrong. If it didn’t, then they just didn’t care, didn’t know, or didn’t bother, which are all signs of a bad design team.

I can respect them for working on bigger bugs but minute things that improve the player experience at no extra cost and very little time lost ARE high priority things. Why would they not be?

And funny how they have time to write up an anti-farming code for open world, but not fix that. Hm.

What do you mean you can’t imagine it. It happened. There are hundreds if not thousands of bugs in this game. There’s a priority list and they work off the list. How hard is this to understand?

They don’t look all the way down the list and say I’ll fix this fast. Because no matter what you do with programming…its’ never, ever fast.

And here’s my issue. You’re telling me finding the word “bleed” on a specific skill for a specific race and pressing the backspace key isn’t going to be a quick and easy fix? If fixing something like a TYPO on ONE SKILL is a huge problem that it takes months to get to, there’s something wrong with how they access and modify skills (I’m hesitant to use the word code).

There’s an issue with how things are looked at and handled in terms of importance. UI is almost everything. It’s how the player sees the world, and how they interact and work withing the confines of your universe. The fact that an issue as glaring and (I’d hope) easy to fix as pressing the backspace button shows a misuse of time and energy elsewhere. This also shows in areas like dungeons and DE’s. It’s a symbol of a larger problem. The fact that you’re defending a company for not being able to fix a UI typo for months and months is atrocious, really.

I’m saying, very simply, there’s a list. The devs don’t sit there and get to troll the whole list. This list is probably worked on by designers who don’t program at all. Guys maybe like Colin or Eric look at the list and prioritize everything. And no, they don’t log into the game just to fix a typo. That makes no sense.

The programmers, they don’t get the whole list. They’re assigned projects. This is often how businesses work. It’s not that it’s not easy, it’s that the devs don’t get to see stuff low on the list.

You don’t just go to devs, give them a big long list of stuff and tell them to work on what they want. That would be pure chaos.

Structure is why things like this happen. You make it sound like laziness.

If you think my argument is about them being lazy you have COMPLETELY missed my point. I don’t imagine them lounging in chairs and making jokes about nerfing grenades. No. I imagine them diligently coming in to work every single day and making use of their time and energy.

My issue comes with how it’s directed. There’s been nothing but calls for working on rewards, bigger bug fixes, economy issues (which may or may not exist, but opinions), scaling, ascended gear, time locked content… The list goes on. Outside a handful of exceptions, these have hardly been addressed. My point with the UI bug wasn’t that it simply was a huge deal, but that that something so small and meaningful (because yes, first impressions are everything. A new level 10 seeing a typo like that 5 months after release is going to be left with a bad taste) slides by along with the myriad of other seemingly small changes show a misdirection of energy and time management. Blame the overseers, blame the programmers, blame this or that, but it’s a glaring issue.

Okay so you’d manage the company differently. I get that. But I think most big companies work exactly the same way.

When I managed electronics stores, the smaller the chain was, the less rules and direction there was. I managed a store for quite a big electronics chain in NYC called Crazy Eddies (a loooooooong time ago). The point is, when there were ten stores, we hardly had any rules. We could do pretty much what we wanted. And you know, the company ran quite well.

When there were forty stores, the brass kept implementing more and more rules and procedures and stuff that used to be easy to do was no longer easy. If you needed something for the store, you could no longer take the money out of the cash register and put in a receipt for it. It had to be ordered from the warehouse, even cleaning products, like the stuff we used to wipe down the TV screens.

Yes, it’s much more logical if you run out of cleaner to go buy it at the shop next door…but it wasn’t allowed. It’s about order and control.

The bigger the company, the more need to control everything from the top. It’s the only way that things really get done without stepping on each other’s toes. There are too many devs for them to just make decisions about what to work on.

Your argument is that someone high up should have read the list and fixed it faster? Maybe. I just don’t see this as a big deal…at all.

Again, you are focused on the idea that the typo itself is the only issue. For third time, it’s more symbolic (though it should be fixed) of how the bugs and other glaring issues are being pushed to the wayside for temporary content and things nobody was quite asking for. There’s a thought process going on in the company that doesn’t seem to be in the same vein as what the players want or what’s best for the longevity for the game. Not that the programmers and mid/low tier folk have any control over that, but the higher ups do.

bullettohead.9715:

Again, you are focused on the idea that the typo itself is the only issue. For third time, it’s more symbolic (though it should be fixed) of how the bugs and other glaring issues are being pushed to the wayside for temporary content and things nobody was quite asking for. There’s a thought process going on in the company that doesn’t seem to be in the same vein as what the players want or what’s best for the longevity for the game. Not that the programmers and mid/low tier folk have any control over that, but the higher ups do.

No, that’s not true. NOTHING is being pushed by the side for temporary content, because the team that works on bugs is not the team that works on content. We know this for a fact because Anet has said this.

The game DOES need to fix bugs, but if you don’t think the game needs content (the way content locusts devour it), you’d be wrong. I’d say having content out every month is a great way to keep people coming back (and it does). Patch days are the busiest server days on my server, and it’s not for bug fixes mostly. It’s to see the new stuff.

Anet is a business and businesses need to make money. Correcting the spelling on a skill will get done, but it’s not going to make them any money.

Put it another way. How many people will leave over the mispelling of a word, compared to how many people will leave without being given stuff to do. Because in the end, that’s all an MMO is to most people. Stuff to do. You give them stuff to do and most people will do the stuff. That’s all.

So yeah, I get why you think that it’s a problem, but I think that Anet is doing what any big company would do. It’s looking to maintain it’s playerbase by adding stuff to the game, while fixing the biggest most important bugs first.

the best thing this game could have would be the istant Death of PvP.
Sincerely
a GC PvE/WWW (once i quit also this) ele tired to be nerfed to the ground because 6 players complains in PvP.

LordByron.8369:

the best thing this game could have would be the istant Death of PvP.
Sincerely
a GC PvE/WWW (once i quit also this) ele tired to be nerfed to the ground because 6 players complains in PvP.

But those 6 players are uber…didn’t you know? lol

Vayne.8563:

LordByron.8369:

the best thing this game could have would be the istant Death of PvP.
Sincerely
a GC PvE/WWW (once i quit also this) ele tired to be nerfed to the ground because 6 players complains in PvP.

But those 6 players are uber…didn’t you know? lol

This relates to one of my spoilers on a previous comment!

bullettohead.9715:

That analogy is flawed in the sense that having 300 doctors work on you at once is impossible.

Intern runs into Anet CEO’s office… “Quick! Start coding! There’s a typo and everyone else is busy! Fix it now! I said NOW!”

The funny thing is how people is used to FEAR Patches.

Any single patch the only question i have is “will this be enough to make me leave the game?” rather than “what new cool stuff will we get?”

Probably from Tomorrow won t be one of my concerns…..
The only chance is they completely leave PvE untouched……

Vayne.8563:

Actually my logic isn’t about the exception but the rule. And people who eat rotten meat probably still know its’ rotten.

people that eat rotten mean probably think that the meat is fine and tasty. Anet only supplies the meat. If they hear some cheers that the meat is fine and tasty, do you think there’s a reason for them to care that someone pointed out that it’s rotten?

Mirta.5029:

Vayne.8563:

Actually my logic isn’t about the exception but the rule. And people who eat rotten meat probably still know its’ rotten.

people that eat rotten mean probably think that the meat is fine and tasty. Anet only supplies the meat. If they hear some cheers that the meat is fine and tasty, do you think there’s a reason for them to care that someone pointed out that it’s rotten?

You’re just arguing to argue now. What percentage of people eat rotten meat? This is silly.

So I own a restaurant, 2 guys like a meal and a 150 are vomiting, I think I can assume that there’s a problem.

But that’s not really what’s going on here, at least as far as I know. I don’t think most people don’t like the game. It doesn’t make most people sick. There are a percentage of people who don’t like it and a percentage who do.

I think the percentage who do is big enough. Time will tell.

Vayne.8563:

You’re just arguing to argue now. What percentage of people eat rotten meat? This is silly.

So I own a restaurant, 2 guys like a meal and a 150 are vomiting, I think I can assume that there’s a problem.

But that’s not really what’s going on here, at least as far as I know. I don’t think most people don’t like the game. It doesn’t make most people sick. There are a percentage of people who don’t like it and a percentage who do.

I think the percentage who do is big enough. Time will tell.

well there you go. That’s a Swedish delicacy – rotten fish. I’m not arguing that people don’t like the game. Quite on the opposite – I think that it’s the best MMO out there right now. I’m arguing however that balance in not being done right.

tolunart.2095:

Eh, I’m a big picture kind of guy. I try to look at things from a different perspective than “such-and-such is more powerful/effective than similar things, therefore I have to do such-and-such.”

The devs have to view the game as a whole, while players tend to look at it from a single point of view, care only about a single class or technique, etc.

I’m looking at the big picture when I point out that the anti-boon skills will hurt the staff eles a lot more than the bunker d/d eles and guardians that caused the nerf to begin with.

Suddenflame.2601:

You guys are complaining about nerfs when they are buffing stuff as well. What they are doing is weaking some things and making others stronger. AKA balancing. Your making it sound like they are just nerfing everything to oblivion without giving anything back which is totally incorrect. We don’t know at this point fully whats going to be buffed or nerfed in this patch. People always complain about nerfs but they must happen. League of Legends buffs and nerfs things all the time to change the meta of the game. GW2 is fully capable of doing the same and it appears they are.

In theory they are buffing weak builds, in practice they are not. They even said they aren’t going to do anything for staff Eles in pvp.

ThiBash.5634:

I’m looking at the big picture when I point out that the anti-boon skills will hurt the staff eles a lot more than the bunker d/d eles and guardians that caused the nerf to begin with.

Of course, you know more about the game than the people who made it… I bow to your superior knowledge.

tolunart.2095:

ThiBash.5634:

I’m looking at the big picture when I point out that the anti-boon skills will hurt the staff eles a lot more than the bunker d/d eles and guardians that caused the nerf to begin with.

Of course, you know more about the game than the people who made it… I bow to your superior knowledge.

The people that make games are often the least knowledgeable when it comes to how well skills work together. I will wait and see what the patch notes say, but if what I heard for rangers is true than I wouldn’t hold my breath when it comes to saying devs know their stuff better.

O yea, I’ve posted this sentiment many times. I’ve never understood nerfing something that’s good rather than buffing something that’s bad.

If everyone’s playing 2 builds, why not buff the other skills, thereby opening up other options for players? Instead, it’s “everyone is using ‘nades. let’s nerf em.” How about “everyone’s using ‘nades, let’s buff [item x] to give ’em another option. that will increase build diversity.”

Obviously, there are going to be truly OP skills. In which case, yea nerf em. But to destroy a mechanic simply because it’s being overused? Isn’t that more a reflection on the game for lack of variety on their part?

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Swizzle.7982:

Vayne.8563:

Zacchary.6183:

Can’t we all just shut up and adapt?

People say these changes are taking away builds, but I’m wondering if they haven’t done this on a test server and seen more builds emerge from it.

Surely people realize that Anet does have a test server.

That’s right. Anet are well known for testing any changes or additions to the game prior to adding them, and that’s why every patch is always of the very highest quality, with no glaringly obvious problems that any idiot could have identified within seconds.

Meanwhile, back in the real world…

LOL best reply EVER! Swizzle!

Yeah the changes needed to this probably won’t be implemented because they actually think there’s nothing wrong with them. smh. Have you seen the AMA’s and post patch interviews? They’re all like “Yeah, we’ve done this and this to improve performance, and no we haven’t heard anything back from the fans (because we don’t read the forums), so it’s awesome gameplay now and we totally would love to see those of you who haven’t bought it yet pick up the game today at your local retailer (gleam from the toothy smile holding up a box edition)”

It amazes me sometimes not only that these things are missed because like you said Swizzle, a total idiot can see some of these problems instantly, but that there are those who come onto these forums daily, and try to defend these issues like there’s absolutely nothing wrong, it’s all our imaginations that objects fly faster underwater then they do on land or that a single class can run a dungeon solo or that only two classes in the game can 1 shot without blinking. yeah. cuz that’s normal.

The problem with a “total idiot” being able to see problems with some changes is that some of the problems those “total idiots” see aren’t actually problems when considering the big picture.

Most people are concerned with their main or their class. Not all, but most. So they say, sure, MY profession doesn’t need a nerf. Everything is fine with it. And if Anet changes that thing, they say, Anet doesn’t know how to balance, all they do is nerf.

Well, welcome to the world of MMOs. Do you think I’ve seen ANYTHING on those forums I haven’t seen on dozens of others about dozens of other MMORPGs? Anything at all. Do you think that these same comments can’t be found on WoW, SWToR, Lotro, DDO, and every other MMORPG forum.

So I get all, all the devs from all the games know nothing, because some fans think they know better and see problems. And some may.

But most are just concerned with keeping their power, not the good of the game as a whole.

I can see you’ve never played the completely RNG, self CCing, can’t do as much bleed damage as an ungeared unbuilt thief or as much burn damage as an unbuilt ungeared guardian or three shot enemies with grenades like a ranger in all greens can with traps in a level 40 zone while you are in all condi exotics specced for it and using grenades THE condi damage builder — Engineer.

That’s what’s meant by an idiot can tell there’s something wrong seriously wrong.

Conner.4702:

The people that make games are often the least knowledgeable when it comes to how well skills work together. I will wait and see what the patch notes say, but if what I heard for rangers is true than I wouldn’t hold my breath when it comes to saying devs know their stuff better.

It’s more of a difference in focus – devs want to make a fun game for everyone, you want to break it in a way that benefits yourself. Having a different goal doesn’t make them wrong.

Over two years, on three different MMO forums, I’ve heard different people post the exact same arguments, over and over. None of the three games have collapsed and died, although in the case of TOR their reach exceeded their grasp.

I can only conclude that the devs have different goals and priorities than the most vocal complainers on the forums. They have access to a lot more information about the game, past and present, as well as information about where the company wants to go with the game, that you do not.

What you WANT to happen is irrelevant – they are working with an entirely different perspective of the game.

Seras.5702:

O yea, I’ve posted this sentiment many times. I’ve never understood nerfing something that’s good rather than buffing something that’s bad.

If everyone’s playing 2 builds, why not buff the other skills, thereby opening up other options for players? Instead, it’s “everyone is using ‘nades. let’s nerf em.” How about “everyone’s using ‘nades, let’s buff [item x] to give ’em another option. that will increase build diversity.”

Obviously, there are going to be truly OP skills. In which case, yea nerf em. But to destroy a mechanic simply because it’s being overused? Isn’t that more a reflection on the game for lack of variety on their part?

I’ve answered this many times in many threads, but it seems people still insist buffing is better than nerfing.

Okay so you have a build that most people use because it’s clearly better. So you buff the other skills to make more better builds. The problem is every other profession feels the first unbuffed build is OP, like the ele bunker build…which is OP.

So you’ve now given ele’s more powerful skills, all across the board, so they can have multiple very powerful builds. But now eles are THE most powerful profession in the game and everyone rolls one. So you have to buff ALL the other skills of all the other professions.

And what you get, instead of changing a couple of skills, is changing most skills in the game. Which means everyone is on equal footing till someone makes another build that’s OP. And then what? Raise everything again. This is called power creep. You never get to feel powerful no matter how good your skills are, because everyone else is also getting more powerful. Everything is always changing so you can’t ever get any kind of feel for the profession as it stands.

Worse yet, every single PvE encounter in the open world, in dungeons, in events, they’re all too weak now, and THEY have to be buffed.

So you want the devs to essentially buff every single thing in the game and then HOPE there’s balance after they’re done. Not the best plan. Power creep is terrible.

It would be like trying to create a hole in the ground by building up everything else in the yard around it, because you’re somehow against digging.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve answered this many times in many threads, but it seems people still insist buffing is better than nerfing.

Okay so you have a build that most people use because it’s clearly better. So you buff the other skills to make more better builds. The problem is every other profession feels the first unbuffed build is OP, like the ele bunker build…which is OP.

So you’ve now given ele’s more powerful skills, all across the board, so they can have multiple very powerful builds. But now eles are THE most powerful profession in the game and everyone rolls one. So you have to buff ALL the other skills of all the other professions.

And what you get, instead of changing a couple of skills, is changing most skills in the game. Which means everyone is on equal footing till someone makes another build that’s OP. And then what? Raise everything again. This is called power creep. You never get to feel powerful no matter how good your skills are, because everyone else is also getting more powerful. Everything is always changing so you can’t ever get any kind of feel for the profession as it stands.

Worse yet, every single PvE encounter in the open world, in dungeons, in events, they’re all too weak now, and THEY have to be buffed.

So you want the devs to essentially buff every single thing in the game and then HOPE there’s balance after they’re done. Not the best plan. Power creep is terrible.

It would be like trying to create a hole in the ground by building up everything else in the yard around it, because you’re somehow against digging.

somehow you’re absolutely sure that the game would hit this problem when Terra tried it and didn’t.

Mirta.5029:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve answered this many times in many threads, but it seems people still insist buffing is better than nerfing.

Okay so you have a build that most people use because it’s clearly better. So you buff the other skills to make more better builds. The problem is every other profession feels the first unbuffed build is OP, like the ele bunker build…which is OP.

So you’ve now given ele’s more powerful skills, all across the board, so they can have multiple very powerful builds. But now eles are THE most powerful profession in the game and everyone rolls one. So you have to buff ALL the other skills of all the other professions.

And what you get, instead of changing a couple of skills, is changing most skills in the game. Which means everyone is on equal footing till someone makes another build that’s OP. And then what? Raise everything again. This is called power creep. You never get to feel powerful no matter how good your skills are, because everyone else is also getting more powerful. Everything is always changing so you can’t ever get any kind of feel for the profession as it stands.

Worse yet, every single PvE encounter in the open world, in dungeons, in events, they’re all too weak now, and THEY have to be buffed.

So you want the devs to essentially buff every single thing in the game and then HOPE there’s balance after they’re done. Not the best plan. Power creep is terrible.

It would be like trying to create a hole in the ground by building up everything else in the yard around it, because you’re somehow against digging.

somehow you’re absolutely sure that the game would hit this problem when Terra tried it and didn’t.

I can’t answer for Terra, but I’m not sure how balanced or imbalanced it is. I bet if you go to the forums there are a lot of threads about imbalance. So I did a search, here’s the first thread I found about Terra’s imbalances. There are tons of them.

http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/player-vs-player/topics/PvP-Tera-must-be-balanced--77048

Every game is balanced except for the one you’re playing. Great answer, but from the number of threads about Terra’s imbalances, I’d say it’s gotta be at least as bad as Guild Wars 2. Possibly because of stat creep, more likely because actual balance can never be achieved.

What I said was completely logical. If you have an OP build and you make all the other skills more viable, so they’re all OP you have an OP profession. If you raise other professions to that level, someone will find an OP build again and people will insist it get nerfed. But if you just keep building, you just keep perpetuating the OP builds. The open world in PVe gets easier and easier (happened in Guild Wars 1 and happens in most games anyway as people gear up), and you end up with a complete mess.

The nerf to mist form I find very harsh. Elementalists are a fairly squigy build; we have to move constantly and dodge. Moving constantly means its harder to cast skills, which incidentally includes having to swap attunements all the time to play well, and harder to stay looking at your opponent and keeping line of sight.

To help, I ended up buying a multi-button mouse. If I battle with anyone I’m constantly moving, dodging, setting up combos, remembering cooldown times so I know if I can do a combo. Most fingers on both hands working almost all the time.

1 mistake during all of this often meant a dead ele, though mist form was there if we screwed up. It was also a counter measure to the theifs ridiculously powerful stealth attack.

All classes have pros and cons. I admit I’ve not playing other classes much, but I’ve come to these conclusions from playing a lot of PvP and duelling:

• Mesmer are confusing to fight, and can disable you for a long time by turning you into a Moa. Definitely did not need a buff.

• Theif have stealth and ridiculously high DPS just from spamming 1 and 2. Definitely did not need a buff.

• Warriors are tough and hit hard, though I find a lot of players rely on this too much and don’t move around much. Needed a small buff though.

• Good rangers hit very hard from a distance and have their pets. Perhaps needed a small buff.

• A good engineer has a ton of condition they can apply. I’ve never tried playing one but have heard they are quiet difficult in a similar way to Ele.

So what advantage exactly does an Ele have now? The classes I felt were quiet balanced before; maybe a small change was needed yes, but not this. Ele needs an advantage too!

An Ele will have to move around even more like crazy now and run away at the first sign of losing health, because it sure goes down quickly.

This is just my initial reaction, and its the first time I’ve been upset enough to feel compelled to write in this forum.

I love playing Ele and really do not feel enticed by another class, and I spent a very long time learning ele, researching combos, saving for and buying my daggers (I play D/D most of the time as it is (was) the most fun), so I’m not sure what is left for me now. I did try playing a Mesmer some time back and instantly noticed how much more powerful they were, but they just didn’t do it for me.

And those that think Ele should of been nerfed to this extent; try playing one for a while in PvP against some good players and see how you get on.

Maybe after a while I’ll feel different, and as the above post said, try and adapt. I just can’t see what advantage Ele at the moment.