Casuals are fickle, whimsical, flaky, unreliable, annoying little kittenhats. It breaks my heart that developers are forced to hand tailor games to suit the casuals more and more every year just because they outnumber hardcore players. Casuals love to argue that they deserve all the accommodations because they are the majority. They don’t give two kittens if this means the game becomes cheapened, watered down, or dumbed down.
Here’s a thought: If you are too casual to keep up with any particular game, why don’t you go find a more casual game and stop trying to make all of the hardcore games less hardcore?
Since when was GW2 ever described by the devs as being a hard-core game? By my reckoning, we took your advice and came to this game because of it.
Here’s a thought: If you are too casual to keep up with any particular game, why don’t you go find a more casual game and stop trying to make all of the hardcore games less hardcore?
Less people buy and play the game is a bad idea. And yes, the majority are not junkies playing 40 hours a week, sorry.
Here’s a thought: If you are too casual to keep up with any particular game, why don’t you go find a more casual game and stop trying to make all of the hardcore games less hardcore?
This is exactly how I feel also. I am also quite capable to do the greedy grind and have in the past. But purchased GW2 because I was sold on it’s different gaming model and for a few months it was exactly that. I have to add because of this I’ve enjoyed it more then most as it was all about fun. Anet did a great job but no matter how their response reads I’m old enough and been around long enough to see what direction this game is going. I can definitely say I’m not interested investing more time in another game like that. It’s not like I disliked those games it’s just that I’m totally played out with that type if game play.
Exactly how I feel. Here Here.
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i suppose it is completely unheard of for people who work at computers all day to get bored and post on forums to kill time.
i mean thats just crazy talk right there.
Of course this is a very common occurrence. I myself have probably wasted more time on forums than in game with a lot of video-games I’ve played in the past.
But this is not typical for a Casual Player. This is symptomatic for someone who treats his/her game as a Hobby…which implies some sort of personal investment.
What I think is the case is that you’ve always considered yourself a casual player and never really given it a second thought. Now I come along with my standards and suddenly you’re no longer “casual”? What’s going on?
You seem to have taken offence…for whatever reason because you’re uncomfortable with my definitions.
Player mentality (aka. casual vs. hardcore) is about how involved an individual is with a specific game. It’s not directly tied to play-time or occupation, although they all play a role.
It’s about what mind-set they apply when playing the game.
And the fact that someone is posting on the forums already implies a degree of involvement with the game that is significantly higher than that of your real “casual player”.
I allways thought “casual” meant occasional, as limited in time and that it was opposed to the concept of playing for a lot of time.
And that the opposite of Hardcore gamer was Carebear.
So on one axis of the graph there’s the amount of time a player dedicates to the game and on the other there’s the difficulty this player will want to play.
This is how i’ve allways “categorised” players, because someone who’s not playing a game a lot of hours per week is not automatically looking for easy or nonchallengin content.
I sure am not despite the limited time my job and family let me dedicate to gaming: i.e. I had a blast with clock tower and spent the two hours I can play every couple of days jumping like a madman and finishing it with my alts.
I might be wrong about specific terms, but I am sure about the distinction of time and difficulty.
People are playing a huge game of semantics with ‘casual’ and ‘hardcore’ here, and it all seems to be related to power creep and the new tier of gear. The best comment I’ve seen on the matter was in a PCGamer comment thread and it said, “Umm…I like new gear and content”. I would probably be considered ‘casual by some, and ’hardcore’ by others, depending on the many definitions, labels, and associations you’ve all made.
I believe players should depend more on skill and less on arbitrary stat advantages. Content should be designed to challenge your abilities rather than to serve as gear checks.
*If you can think of a mechanics and game systems that will offer new content and challenges that aren’t gear or stat dependent at all, then by all means, suggest them. *I would love to hear new ideas from the community, and I’m sure ANet would too! This isn’t what people are doing though, they’re just bashing the decisions ANet already made and putting words in their mouths. Furthermore, this attitude, is childish:
I very much should be able to jump back into the game and experience the same content as those who play constantly. I think getting things in game should be a matter of skill and not time played, someone shouldn’t have nicer and stronger gear just because they spend more time grinding for it. And I definitely would mind having to play catchup each time a new item tier gets released.
Time spent acquiring gear and moving through content should mean something, and again, if you can think of mechanics they could add to the game that would result in the most ‘skilled’ (let’s not even try to define that) players getting the best gear, let the ideas flow my friend.
People are criticizing ANet endless for the not catering to the right community, or not ‘sticking to their manifesto’. They’re honestly, just trying to do what’s best for the many different groups that make up their player base. Who care exactly how you define casual and hardcore? Why not just suggest what you’d like to see in the game, rather than picking apart the decisions the developer is making and offering no ideas of your own?
Mechanics-like the red riding hood and the big bad wolf dungeon in wow, or icc 25 man raids. just remove the gear requirement and have it be about mechanics. or the one with those 2 big old warrior chicks-you had to know when to cc who and what attacks were coming by visual clues. what the hell does it matter what gear you have? scale them all to exotics. get creative. if raiding is really what you want in this game they need to learn from the masters-and that would be WoW. NO GAME does raiding like WoW. Just get rid of the gear progression part.
Ya I’d say it’s a mindset, but not really “involvement” per say. I mean you can be a hard-core RPGer and still be considered a casual. Hard-cores are content devourers, pvp fanatics, and dungeon/raid hounds. Casuals just enjoy the game for what it is, not what they can get out of it. You can be passionate about a game and not be hard-core about it.
Perhaps I’m using too wide a definition. :/ Maybe we should start finding a term for those in-betweeners too.
Yes OP you are right, the casual player really is what you want the casual player to be.
You were making a failed attempt to try to educate casual players into forgetting they were lied to and start playing your way because thats what you wanted, i do not agree and i feel insulted.
A casual player isn’t someone who logs in for fun every now and then and expects to be able to jump into end game content with their hardcore friends. He doesn’t want to be catered to (pitied) like that.
A casual player is a just hardcore player who doesn’t have as much time. He wants what the hardcore player wants – to be a worthwhile. He wants to be a valuable addition to any party whether it’s a dungeon, regular PvE, or in WvW. He understands that it will take him longer, but he’ll get there eventually and be on par with the hardcore player in terms of value to others. He doesn’t mind if you occasionally raise the level of “best gear” that let’s the hardcore player increase the gap between them.
But you have to be careful ANet. If you move the gear treadmill too quickly he’s going to see that either 1) he will never be able to reach parity with the hardcore player at any point in time or 2) every time he does, you raise the standard of gear and he has to grind it out all over again.
ANet, two things make me think you’re going to handle this better than the designers behind other games who’ve faced similar problems. First, you’ve said you’re going to upgrade Legendaries to stay “best-in-slot” which is good for the casual player because he can rest assured knowing all the farming he’s doing right now isn’t going to be overshadowed by the next patch. Second, you’ve already done a great job making sure your “best-in-slot” items are somewhat on par with your much more accessible second-in-class items, which shows the casual player he can still be a valuable addition to any party even while he’s trying to get the best gear.
I urge you to be careful about how you’re making the game accessible to “casual” players. We don’t want handouts or artificial mechanics that make others include us. We want the time we’ve spent to mean something, just like a hardcore player does. Give the hardcore players the gold medals because they’ve spent more time and they deserve it. Just make sure our silver medals still mean something.
Finally a post that makes sense. In an MMO this is how it is and how its always been for me. I’m not hardcore, I consider myself a casual player but I want to still achieve things in the game even though it may take me a little longer it doesn’t matter its an MMO, its not suppose to feel like theres an end.
These guys definition of casual is like playing a totally different genre. They want to jump in the game for 20 min a day or whatever it might be, thats not an MMO and I feel like they should be playing call of duty or something. Those short gameplay times can work if you pvp in this game but if your strictly playing an MMO for pve then this might not work. I think too many people are thinking of gw1 but to be honest gw1 never felt like an MMO imo. Right after installation of this game its pretty clear that gw1 and gw2 feel nothing alike. This feels more like other MMO’s then it does GW1 from the first time you log in.
Bottom line is Casual has a different meaning in MMO’s and the OP has it right imo.
what’s the deal with deciding what is casual for others?
And even worse: starting from your own limited definition, force the statements about this game being ‘for casuals’ to fit your own preferences?
I can twist every statement about this game being for casuals in such a way that it would only fit my own view of ‘casual’.
But what would be the point?
Don’t speak for others, it’s hard enough to make your own opinion clear…
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
I very much should be able to jump back into the game and experience the same content as those who play constantly. I think getting things in game should be a matter of skill and not time played, someone shouldn’t have nicer and stronger gear just because they spend more time grinding for it. And I definitely would mind having to play catchup each time a new item tier gets released.
Time spent acquiring gear and moving through content should mean something, and again, if you can think of mechanics they could add to the game that would result in the most ‘skilled’ (let’s not even try to define that) players getting the best gear, let the ideas flow my friend.
People are criticizing ANet endless for the not catering to the right community, or not ‘sticking to their manifesto’. They’re honestly, just trying to do what’s best for the many different groups that make up their player base. Who care exactly how you define casual and hardcore? Why not just suggest what you’d like to see in the game, rather than picking apart the decisions the developer is making and offering no ideas of your own?
Ideally you should be rewarded for overcoming challenges and finishing content, not repetition. Running a dungeon 100 times is no harder than doing it once, if you can beat it you got the skill and already overcame the challenge, after that it’s just repetition.
The guy who plays more than me can have more stuff than me but he shouldn’t have better stuff simply because he’s got the time to do the same thing more often.
what’s the deal with deciding what is casual for others?
And even worse: starting from your own limited definition, force the statements about this game being ‘for casuals’ to fit your own preferences?
I can twist every statement about this game being for casuals in such a way that it would only fit my own view of ‘casual’.
But what would be the point?
Don’t speak for others, it’s hard enough to make your own opinion clear…
This is a discussion. Don’t like it? Don’t read it.
Mine was an opinion on the OP’s statement. So it’s part of the discussion.
It’s a valid point of view to say that it’s not up to single players to decide what ‘casual’ is for others.
Even more so if those players link their own definition to what this game should or should not do towards catering for those casuals.
This discussion clearly shows the concept of ‘casual’ is highly individual, much more than the concept ‘hardcore’ for example.
Simply because ‘casual’ implies that players are making personal choices on what they do or not in a game.
So going from this fact that it is an individual notion, I think it’s very directive to start making conclusions on how this game caters for casuals or not. Or worse: how it should cater for them…
Anything else?
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
I’ll give an example to show I’m not just being difficult here:
1. you can state that the game should offer the same rewards in dungeons for playing a lot, as it does for playing only a few hours a week.
(just as a random example)
2. But when you claim that this should be the case because that’s what ‘casuals’ want, you immediately face the problem that many who call themselves casual actually disagree.
Point 1. is a healthy discussion.
Point 2. causes a whole discussion on itself, clutters point 1. and very often ends in nothing constructive because of the simple fact that ‘casual’ is such an individual notion.
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
I consider myself a casual player and I play approx. 5- 15 hour per week. My goal in the game is to have fun, I enjoy questing and crafting, and compelled to level slowly enjoying the aspects of the low level games. I do not rush to the max level because I know once there I really will not be doing dungeons and raid events because my time committment is limited and once you hit max level it becomes a game tha in most MMO, start to gear gate content.
While I do not disagree that content needs to raise the bar for the those at max level, but we need to recongize that Casual gamers like to get there sometime. Each time an expansion hits, it often hits the casual gamers the hardest as they fall further behind.
I think that the casual gamer is the silient minority in games, its those hard core that drive new content and wanting the first 79 levels easier so they can get another alt up through the game so they can get to that end game content without much issue. Which then dumbs down the game for he rest of us.
No easy answer here, its ashame that a week after this game is out people are running around at max level complaining there is no content for them. Some of us have a life outside games and like a nice progression without hardcore players ruining the game for the rest of us.
I consider myself a casual player and I play approx. 5- 15 hour per week. My goal in the game is to have fun, I enjoy questing and crafting, and compelled to level slowly enjoying the aspects of the low level games. I do not rush to the max level because I know once there I really will not be doing dungeons and raid events because my time committment is limited and once you hit max level it becomes a game tha in most MMO, start to gear gate content.
While I do not disagree that content needs to raise the bar for the those at max level, but we need to recongize that Casual gamers like to get there sometime. Each time an expansion hits, it often hits the casual gamers the hardest as they fall further behind.
I think that the casual gamer is the silient minority in games, its those hard core that drive new content and wanting the first 79 levels easier so they can get another alt up through the game so they can get to that end game content without much issue. Which then dumbs down the game for he rest of us.
No easy answer here, its ashame that a week after this game is out people are running around at max level complaining there is no content for them. Some of us have a life outside games and like a nice progression without hardcore players ruining the game for the rest of us.
I am also casual, they need to raise the bar though and I doubt will be left behind before an expansion comes out because the system doesnt work the way games like WoW do. WoW for example is time consuming and feels like a constant grind because of the way the system works. Its not about the gear its the way you have to get the gear.
WoW Example
1. Gear is achieved through a random drop through different areas or dungeons of the game and even though it does drop theres a chance that you will have to roll against somebody else. Meaning you have to do it over and over again until you get it.
2. Wow puts caps on players.. Im not sure if its still like that but you can only do so much to achieve something and if not lucky you have to wait 1 week for it to reset. This is the real reason why achieving things may have felt frustrating for some.
In this game, When you want to progress you will progress the moment you start because you pretty much know when your going to get something and there is no competition or a weekly cap so none of the time you spent is worthless so its pretty easy to play catch up.
I very much fulfill the OP’s description of a casual player, plus I’ve been careful not to rush through lvling my main, so that I can enjoy the game rather than feeling as though getting to 80 was a chore and then moaning about lack of progression (as some were doing before the announcement of ascended items being introduced)
I do worry that it might be a while before I can easily get into a dungeon group, but that’s a small price to pay at the moment.
Reading this topic I had to laugh at the different definitions of “casual” and “hardcore” in every post.
Clearly, it is something that everyone has a different opinion of, and yet it’s used a lot in discussions. But how can you ever have a good discussion if you are talking about different things?
Exactly. But that’s why discussions like this one should happen: to refine and expound upon common language.
At the very least, what this topic reveals is that the two categories, casual and hardcore, aren’t a sufficient representation of what is actually a fairly involved gradient.
I very much fulfill the OP’s description of a casual player, plus I’ve been careful not to rush through lvling my main, so that I can enjoy the game rather than feeling as though getting to 80 was a chore and then moaning about lack of progression (as some were doing before the announcement of ascended items being introduced)
I do worry that it might be a while before I can easily get into a dungeon group, but that’s a small price to pay at the moment.
Just take your time and enjoy the game, work your way up at your own pace not everyone elses. You have no competition in anything, you dont roll against anyone else and your progression is not capped weekly like in WoW, the time you put in is never a waste.
Casuals are fickle, whimsical, flaky, unreliable, annoying little kittenhats. It breaks my heart that developers are forced to hand tailor games to suit the casuals more and more every year just because they outnumber hardcore players. Casuals love to argue that they deserve all the accommodations because they are the majority. They don’t give two kittens if this means the game becomes cheapened, watered down, or dumbed down.
Here’s a thought: If you are too casual to keep up with any particular game, why don’t you go find a more casual game and stop trying to make all of the hardcore games less hardcore?
I think it’s hysterical that you call yourself hardcore and then want crutches to be able to beat players that play less than you.
You have a lot of company though; most self-acclaimed hardcore MMORPG players are weenies about competition. I’ve never seen a hardcore FPS player whining that they deserve advantages for time played above and beyond the personal skills they’ve developed with said time.
Yeah, I always compare hardcore FPS gamers to MMO gamers.
As someone that has played a kittenload of both, I fail to see how they are mutually exclusive.
Good gamers always want to be set apart by their skill, not by the dubious distinction of having punched the clock more than the other guy. It doesn’t matter what the genre is.
“A casual player is a just hardcore player who doesn’t have as much time. He wants what the hardcore player wants – to be a worthwhile”
I disagree. Everyone wants to be worthwhile, not just hardcore players. And a casual player isn’t someone who just doesn’t have time. There are many reasons people are casual. I, for one, am casual because I don’t want to rush to the end of a game. I’ve played plenty of hours trust me, I just take my time and explore other classes.
I don’t have to have the best weapons armor. I don’t have to have everything maxed out. I don’t play this game as a job, I have one. I’ve been in hardcore guilds and didn’t like having to be ready to raid at such and such time.
I don’t revolve my life around a game, that’s what makes me a casual player.
I consider myself to a casual player. Even though i play a min of 2the hours on working days, and min of 5 hours on my days off.
You see I am an admitted altaolic. My highest toon is in the mid to high 60s. And i have been playing since head start. This is the first game in a decade where I have felt I have found a new virtual world to call home. I really don’t hope they mess it up
Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred
Still all talking about different things people. The degree to which all your definitions of casual and hardcore differ are hilarious. For the sake of contributing something to the discussion I will say I think all the definitions are right with regard to some people, and they are all also wrong with regard to others. You might want to consider not trying to simplify things so much.
A casual player is someone who plays for fun alone and therefore will not easily stomach grind, especially if it restricts their freedom of play.
A hardcore player is someone who is more tolerant to grind and will play through grind even if it less enjoyable than better designed and more frequently implemented content.
Casuals are fickle, whimsical, flaky, unreliable, annoying little kittenhats. It breaks my heart that developers are forced to hand tailor games to suit the casuals more and more every year just because they outnumber hardcore players. Casuals love to argue that they deserve all the accommodations because they are the majority. They don’t give two kittens if this means the game becomes cheapened, watered down, or dumbed down.
Here’s a thought: If you are too casual to keep up with any particular game, why don’t you go find a more casual game and stop trying to make all of the hardcore games less hardcore?
Heh,
I haven’t played a “hardcore” game since my Ultima Online days in 97, and i played it casually, go figure. Nothing i couldn’t do there. Owned my own smithy, hunted reds as an anti-pk, defending player towns from evil RP guilds, and when they took you out, they actually grabbed all of your “precious’s”
Todays “hardcore” games? Bleh, running the same dungeons ad naseum in some sort of virtual fashion show.
I really liked the direction this game had going for it, i hope they don’t alter it too much.
All of you guys claiming you are casuals, false. Just like there are no girls on the internet, there are no casuals on the forums. Sure you may think you’re casual, but you are definitely more hardcore than most of the other casuals out there.
I agree with the others. Casual is not a time constraint, casual is me going about in the game slowly making my way across a map casually – instead of rushing or speeding through everything. We “casually” get stuff done as opposed to “i need to do this this and this right now”.
I agree with the others. Casual is not a time constraint, casual is me going about in the game slowly making my way across a map casually – instead of rushing or speeding through everything. We “casually” get stuff done as opposed to “i need to do this this and this right now”.
Agree
Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred
