Guild Wars 2

killcannon.2576:

tolunart.2095:

killcannon.2576:

5. This statement makes no sense “Every single world event I go to is packed. Every one. Even ones that happen at the same time” How can you be a two or more world events at the same time?

Shortly after the patch tonight I was at the Fire Elemental event. When it was halfway dead, someone posted in chat “Hurry! Wurm pre-event is up!” As soon as I grabbed the loot from the FE I teleported to the Wurm event and got there just in time to see it spawn. There was already a crowd of people there who cleared the pre-events.

So, yes, there were two events going on at the same time, both with a crowd of people doing them, and I was at both.

Uh…you completed the one event, then went to another event that just started. That is not at the same time.

Would be true though if you didn’t get credit for the event if you didn’t do the pre events which would be a good idea.

My wife and I sit next to each other and we’ve been at different events at the exact same time. Both events had guildies try to get to them who ended up on overflow servers.

tolunart.2095:

killcannon.2576:

5. This statement makes no sense “Every single world event I go to is packed. Every one. Even ones that happen at the same time” How can you be a two or more world events at the same time?

Shortly after the patch tonight I was at the Fire Elemental event. When it was halfway dead, someone posted in chat “Hurry! Wurm pre-event is up!” As soon as I grabbed the loot from the FE I teleported to the Wurm event and got there just in time to see it spawn. There was already a crowd of people there who cleared the pre-events.

So, yes, there were two events going on at the same time, both with a crowd of people doing them, and I was at both.

But this is exactly whats wrong. You got to a zone, kill a boss (in less than 2 minutes with the exception of the Dragons, but even then is only Jormag that takes any time) and then you leave and go to the next one. How is that giving anyone the impression that those zones are full? They’re full for two minutes and empty for 2 hours.

pricer.5091:

New Character Yo.6487:

pricer.5091:

Correct ^ – No-one can prove anything. But the anecdotal evidence is there sure enough. My guild chat is normally just “Maw is up” – “Jormag is UP” etc all day. I havent seen anyone run a dungeon other than CoF or FoTM in months. Largest guild gatherings are on Sundays when we do guild missions and after that its just the same people all the time…of which there are less. Even the guild master quit.

Theres nothing fun about Jormag or any of the other events when you already did them 27 bazillion times. And I actually have to turn the sound off if I go to Orr because the mob sound effects “DEATH…GOOD!” actuallly make me want to commit murder. Same for the Dredge fractal….“Ikkit”……AAAAAARGH…SHUT UP!!!!!!! With the added annoyance that you have 20 Veteran mobs permastunning you while you bounce round the floor like a rag doll, completely helpless because you used up your next to useless stability abilities on the first two.. Does anyone actually enjoy that?

And for every person that says “go play the game”, “go explore” or any other such contrite nonsense it makes me want to kill a kitten (and I love kittens).. Thats right, I actually typed “kitten” ..its not a result of the ridiculous profanity filter. So you come on the forum to complain (in the genuine hope that something will be done about the issues you have) and you get infracted because “threads that complain are not constructive”?

Fun. With a capital F.

Maybe i’m just different, but I don’t see much of “This part of the game is terrible, absolutely terrible. Anet screwed up hard, I can’t wait for (insert upcoming game release here) to come out so I can leave this game.” to be constructive.

I never said it was constructive. Here are some suggestions that are however:

1) Fix mechanics so that dungeons actually take some skill to complete.
2) Fix loot so that your time is rewarded appropriately.
3) Fix, or eliminate the reliance on RNG mechanics
4) Fix bugs that have been present since the game began, like Guardian Scepter as an example.
5) Add some meaningful content that is actually fun to play, and permanent.
6)New Charr backpack or working character skills?
7) I could go on…in fact there are entire threads devoted to outstanding bug fixes for example.

All of these suggestions have been floating about for a very long time and havent been addressed. So peoples constructive criticism is turning to the other….non-constructive… kind.

I do know what you’re saying, and I agree 100%, it just seems like threads with people ranting are bumped much more often then constructive threads. And Anet can’t get to all of them. The living Story is their way of making interesting content (They stated F&F was just a test that’s why it was rolled out so slow, which is yet to be seen since the new Living Story is coming out tomorrow), so they are at least trying. Not everything can be fixed, but they are definitely reading and considering those constructive threads because some changes they have made were based on constructive threads.

One thread I remember was the scaling issue where the mobs were weak and having just big numbers doesn’t make it more difficult and the OP suggested vets and champs spawn the more people that are there, which I saw implemented.

I had to wait in a queue for WvW last night so i really don’t know what everyone’s talking about. Maybe things are different on NA servers, i dunno..

pricer.5091:

tolunart.2095:

killcannon.2576:

5. This statement makes no sense “Every single world event I go to is packed. Every one. Even ones that happen at the same time” How can you be a two or more world events at the same time?

Shortly after the patch tonight I was at the Fire Elemental event. When it was halfway dead, someone posted in chat “Hurry! Wurm pre-event is up!” As soon as I grabbed the loot from the FE I teleported to the Wurm event and got there just in time to see it spawn. There was already a crowd of people there who cleared the pre-events.

So, yes, there were two events going on at the same time, both with a crowd of people doing them, and I was at both.

But this is exactly whats wrong. You got to a zone, kill a boss (in less than 2 minutes with the exception of the Dragons, but even then is only Jormag that takes any time) and then you leave and go to the next one. How is that giving anyone the impression that those zones are full? They’re full for two minutes and empty for 2 hours.

I’m not making any such claims, I just wanted to set the record straight when someone expressed disbelief that two events could be visited by one person.

pricer.5091:

tolunart.2095:

killcannon.2576:

5. This statement makes no sense “Every single world event I go to is packed. Every one. Even ones that happen at the same time” How can you be a two or more world events at the same time?

Shortly after the patch tonight I was at the Fire Elemental event. When it was halfway dead, someone posted in chat “Hurry! Wurm pre-event is up!” As soon as I grabbed the loot from the FE I teleported to the Wurm event and got there just in time to see it spawn. There was already a crowd of people there who cleared the pre-events.

So, yes, there were two events going on at the same time, both with a crowd of people doing them, and I was at both.

But this is exactly whats wrong. You got to a zone, kill a boss (in less than 2 minutes with the exception of the Dragons, but even then is only Jormag that takes any time) and then you leave and go to the next one. How is that giving anyone the impression that those zones are full? They’re full for two minutes and empty for 2 hours.

Except that the bosses don’t spawn like clockwork. There are timer sites with windows. People go through the zone doing other stuff (not everyone but many) while waiting for the boss. Someone eventually annouces in map chat that the pre-event is up and everyone goes there.

This is particularly true when supported by specific dailies like Maguuma or Shiverpeak event completer.

It’s not just that people spent two minutes a zone. People spent half an hour in a zone which culminates in their guaranteed gold.

Last night, while running around Wayfarers waiting for the Maw, I got two rare drops from mobs. Then I got the guaranteed rare.

It was good fun.

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

It runs fractals all the time…and CoF. As it says above in fact. I’ve ran them till my ears bleed. MF sucks. Its just another horribly designed dungeon with poor rewards for time. Although it DOES have one or two slightly more interesting than others boss fights.

I know a whole lot of people who disagree with you about whether MF sucks for not. People ran it dozens of times. There’s threads right here on these forums saying it was the best dungeon Anet has done to date, with tons of people agreeing. So yeah, you may think it sucks, but a whole lot of people liked it.

As for rewards, there were some decent ones. The new recipes of course, the chance to get a jet pack or a rare mini were other reasons people ran it.

And when I say my guild runs dungeons, I mean TA, HotW, SoE, SE even AC sometimes. Not just fractals and CoF.

Though dungeon runs have slowed down, since the content is older. But that normally happens in all games. Newer content gets more looks than older content. That’s why people ran MF so much.

If you think running a dungeon over and over again for the chance to get a backpack is the pinnacle of gaming evolution…good for you.

And I know a lot of people who DIDNT like MF….what does that prove? That human beings have differing opinions? Hold on, I’m just going to phone someone and let them know…there might be a Nobel prize in it.

It doesn’t prove anytrhing. I’m not trying to prove it’s good or bad. I am trying to point out that there’s a counter point to your opinion. A lot of people did like it and ran it multiple times, including me.

Frankly I think the Fractals are the best dungeon in the game, but there’s no denying that MF was mad popular, which you seem to have left out of your equation. That’s why I brought it up as I did. You said no one is running dungeons and I brought up MF. You said it sucked, I said a lot of people liked it.

Why is a dissenting opinion so upsetting to you?

Edit: I also never said it was the pinnacle of gaming or even my favorite dungeon. Nice way to try to twist what I said.

It isn’t. I’m happy for you. But I was talking about MY opinions as I have more familiarity with them. So why are my opinions so upsetting for you?

EDIT: I KNOW there is a counter-point to my opinion. There always will be. Vive la difference. But, this may come as a surprise, I’m not alone in thinking the game has gotten very boring….the entire forum is full of it. So even if it was 50/50 (which it isnt because there are WAY more negative posts than positive) then that would suggest that perhaps someone should start listening?

There have ALWAYS been way more negative posts than positive. Why not go check out every MMO forum out there, including WoW’s. There are always more negative posts on forums than positive posts. Proving pricely nothing.

Far more people are willing to complain than compliment. It’s just human nature.

Unhappy people complain. SOME of those people will always complain…because they want the moon on a stick and they want it NOW. MANY of those people have legitimate observations and deserve to be taken seriously…not written off by people like you because they have a different opinion. Does Guardian Scepter need fixing yes/ no? Are the concerns about the loot issues warranted yes / no? There are many, many, many valid complaints right here on this forum about issues that are spoiling peoples enjoyment of a “game”. And there are some whiners….

Proving, precisely, that some people are so set in their opinions that anyone else with a differing opinion is automatically wrong.

And by mentioning WoW, theres that insinuation that everyone with issues with this game is a WoW fan. I haven’t played WoW since WoTLK came out…

New Character Yo.6487:

killcannon.2576:

New Character Yo.6487:

killcannon.2576:

New Character Yo.6487:

I agree with Vayne. The population may SEEM lower, because before everyone was hanging out in LA waiting for groups for dungeons since that was what most people did for money and loot. Now since Anet has added boss chest rares, most of the population has moved to those areas. Anet also added WvW progression which helped PvE servers (like GoM, the one i’m in), because our players finally started entering WvW!
The population has spread out more across the game, as opposed to being condensed in LA. Just find a good guild OP. I’m in a good one that has around 35-50 online at peak hours, so we always have something to do .

Do you not see that as the problem though? “Most of the population is at the world event bosses farming” What is the impression new players get? The world is dead. They don’t know about farming, they just want to experience the world. Too bad for them I suppose.

How was it any better before? People were farming dungeons and Orr, staying in LA and CS. Anet wanted to spread the population to the other parts of the game, which they are still working on. Doesn’t necessarily mean the games dead. It means they are trying to spread everyone out so they can experience all the content.

Except they aren’t spreading anyone out, they just caused different clumps to appear. Just because one system is as bad as the last one isn’t a reason to declare “Mission accomplished” and move on. It’s a trend, and a bad one, and unless people start saying something it won’t get any better.

I do agree with you on that one, but they did say they weren’t done with it, they’re still working on their current open world. They never declared “mission accomplished”, nor did I, I was simply stating its a step (right or wrong direction is subjective). People DO need to say something, but when they rant about it, sometimes the results might not work out as intended. Like when there was an outcry for gear progression, ascended gear was added, and it received a negative backlash on the forums for the most part.
I did get a bit off topic, i’m just trying to say that Anet is still working on trying to improve their current World, it’s not and never will be set in stone.

I’m pretty sure (but not positive) that Anet decided to put gear progression in all on their own, regardless of the forums. If you go back to that time in the forums there were far fewer and less vehement posts asking for it, than ones speaking out against it.

Typically, there are two camps in the forums. Those asking for change, and those that don’t want change. For this matter I’m on the side of change, and not on the side of “Everything is fine here, move along” And I’m just adding my voice in favor of those asking for change for what I believe would be better for the game as a whole.
Stable server populations spread throughout the zones. And I just haven’t seen any movement, or hint of movement, on that front since they introduced these changes months back. And I don’t want these topics buried.

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

It runs fractals all the time…and CoF. As it says above in fact. I’ve ran them till my ears bleed. MF sucks. Its just another horribly designed dungeon with poor rewards for time. Although it DOES have one or two slightly more interesting than others boss fights.

I know a whole lot of people who disagree with you about whether MF sucks for not. People ran it dozens of times. There’s threads right here on these forums saying it was the best dungeon Anet has done to date, with tons of people agreeing. So yeah, you may think it sucks, but a whole lot of people liked it.

As for rewards, there were some decent ones. The new recipes of course, the chance to get a jet pack or a rare mini were other reasons people ran it.

And when I say my guild runs dungeons, I mean TA, HotW, SoE, SE even AC sometimes. Not just fractals and CoF.

Though dungeon runs have slowed down, since the content is older. But that normally happens in all games. Newer content gets more looks than older content. That’s why people ran MF so much.

If you think running a dungeon over and over again for the chance to get a backpack is the pinnacle of gaming evolution…good for you.

And I know a lot of people who DIDNT like MF….what does that prove? That human beings have differing opinions? Hold on, I’m just going to phone someone and let them know…there might be a Nobel prize in it.

It doesn’t prove anytrhing. I’m not trying to prove it’s good or bad. I am trying to point out that there’s a counter point to your opinion. A lot of people did like it and ran it multiple times, including me.

Frankly I think the Fractals are the best dungeon in the game, but there’s no denying that MF was mad popular, which you seem to have left out of your equation. That’s why I brought it up as I did. You said no one is running dungeons and I brought up MF. You said it sucked, I said a lot of people liked it.

Why is a dissenting opinion so upsetting to you?

Edit: I also never said it was the pinnacle of gaming or even my favorite dungeon. Nice way to try to twist what I said.

It isn’t. I’m happy for you. But I was talking about MY opinions as I have more familiarity with them. So why are my opinions so upsetting for you?

EDIT: I KNOW there is a counter-point to my opinion. There always will be. Vive la difference. But, this may come as a surprise, I’m not alone in thinking the game has gotten very boring….the entire forum is full of it. So even if it was 50/50 (which it isnt because there are WAY more negative posts than positive) then that would suggest that perhaps someone should start listening?

There have ALWAYS been way more negative posts than positive. Why not go check out every MMO forum out there, including WoW’s. There are always more negative posts on forums than positive posts. Proving pricely nothing.

Far more people are willing to complain than compliment. It’s just human nature.

Unhappy people complain. SOME of those people will always complain…because they want the moon on a stick and they want it NOW. MANY of those people have legitimate observations and deserve to be taken seriously…not written off by people like you because they have a different opinion. Does Guardian Scepter need fixing yes/ no? Are the concerns about the loot issues warranted yes / no? There are many, many, many valid complaints right here on this forum about issues that are spoiling peoples enjoyment of a “game”. And there are some whiners….

Proving, precisely, that some people are so set in their opinions that anyone else with a differing opinion is automatically wrong.

I never said the game doesn’t have legit issues. But yeah, every MMO I’ve played has legit issues. The issues in this game don’t seem much different than the issues on other games. Stuff needs to be fixed, some of it will eventually be fixed. Some people will wait around for those fixes and others will leave. Some new people will start playing to replace some of those who left. This forum looks exactly like every other MMORPG forum.

This doesn’t mean I’m trivilizing legit complaints. But saying the game is dying or people are leaving in droves isn’t a legit complaint, it’s at best an anecdotal bit of information that servers no real purpose. It doesn’t help or fix the game.

If you bring up the fact that we need more build variety, I’d not have said a word.

If you really wanted people to bother going to all the zones and staying there for any length of time you would have to implement Mat drops potentially being upscaled to your level just like items.

This will never happen.

pricer.5091:

If you really wanted people to bother going to all the zones and staying there for any length of time you would have to implement Mat drops potentially being upscaled to your level just like items.

This will never happen.

But that won’t actually get people to the same zones, which is more what Anet is atempting to do with things like dailies and living stories. The world is too big for Anet not to attempt to focus the population more.

Vayne.8563:

I never said the game doesn’t have legit issues. But yeah, every MMO I’ve played has legit issues. The issues in this game don’t seem much different than the issues on other games. Stuff needs to be fixed, some of it will eventually be fixed. Some people will wait around for those fixes and others will leave. Some new people will start playing to replace some of those who left. This forum looks exactly like every other MMORPG forum.

This doesn’t mean I’m trivilizing legit complaints. But saying the game is dying or people are leaving in droves isn’t a legit complaint, it’s at best an anecdotal bit of information that servers no real purpose. It doesn’t help or fix the game.

If you bring up the fact that we need more build variety, I’d not have said a word.

I agree. But there is a lot of static from the developers on some of the key issues that is becoming annoying. And by that I mean the major, gameplay breaking issues that have been reported since the beginning and still arent fixed…not the more trivial issues like loot drops and so on.

killcannon.2576:

New Character Yo.6487:

killcannon.2576:

New Character Yo.6487:

killcannon.2576:

New Character Yo.6487:

I agree with Vayne. The population may SEEM lower, because before everyone was hanging out in LA waiting for groups for dungeons since that was what most people did for money and loot. Now since Anet has added boss chest rares, most of the population has moved to those areas. Anet also added WvW progression which helped PvE servers (like GoM, the one i’m in), because our players finally started entering WvW!
The population has spread out more across the game, as opposed to being condensed in LA. Just find a good guild OP. I’m in a good one that has around 35-50 online at peak hours, so we always have something to do .

Do you not see that as the problem though? “Most of the population is at the world event bosses farming” What is the impression new players get? The world is dead. They don’t know about farming, they just want to experience the world. Too bad for them I suppose.

How was it any better before? People were farming dungeons and Orr, staying in LA and CS. Anet wanted to spread the population to the other parts of the game, which they are still working on. Doesn’t necessarily mean the games dead. It means they are trying to spread everyone out so they can experience all the content.

Except they aren’t spreading anyone out, they just caused different clumps to appear. Just because one system is as bad as the last one isn’t a reason to declare “Mission accomplished” and move on. It’s a trend, and a bad one, and unless people start saying something it won’t get any better.

I do agree with you on that one, but they did say they weren’t done with it, they’re still working on their current open world. They never declared “mission accomplished”, nor did I, I was simply stating its a step (right or wrong direction is subjective). People DO need to say something, but when they rant about it, sometimes the results might not work out as intended. Like when there was an outcry for gear progression, ascended gear was added, and it received a negative backlash on the forums for the most part.
I did get a bit off topic, i’m just trying to say that Anet is still working on trying to improve their current World, it’s not and never will be set in stone.

I’m pretty sure (but not positive) that Anet decided to put gear progression in all on their own, regardless of the forums. If you go back to that time in the forums there were far fewer and less vehement posts asking for it, than ones speaking out against it.

Typically, there are two camps in the forums. Those asking for change, and those that don’t want change. For this matter I’m on the side of change, and not on the side of “Everything is fine here, move along” And I’m just adding my voice in favor of those asking for change for what I believe would be better for the game as a whole.
Stable server populations spread throughout the zones. And I just haven’t seen any movement, or hint of movement, on that front since they introduced these changes months back. And I don’t want these topics buried.

I am also on the side of change. I enjoy this game, and recognize it’s flaws. You didn’t even leave me with anything to argue against in this response xD. I’ll be cheesy and just finish it off with a “I agree”. Darn you! :P

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

If you really wanted people to bother going to all the zones and staying there for any length of time you would have to implement Mat drops potentially being upscaled to your level just like items.

This will never happen.

But that won’t actually get people to the same zones, which is more what Anet is atempting to do with things like dailies and living stories. The world is too big for Anet not to attempt to focus the population more.

This is also true…see, we’re AGREEING with each other. Fancy a cup of tea and a biscuit?

killcannon.2576:

cut

It’s the same way in all games. But let’s have a discussion:
what causes servers to be depopulated
some servers being better than others. That’s the answer. Why is that you say? Because those servers very early on have established their roles or gained lots of popularity.
There has been quite a few huge migrations on EU servers, where full guilds that were interested in WvW made alliances with other guilds, chose a common server and moved there to do heavy WvW. When leaderbords were released 60% of top Spvp players came from the same server, because that server unofficially was the decided home for heavy Spvp’ers. We all know about reputation that Tarnished Coast has for being most RP heavy server.
Now let’s say a new player joins. He wants to find some friends. Does he join an old server that has gained recognition as being a high pop server from the start of the game or does he take a medium server? Oldest servers marked as “high pop” did gain popularity quickly and because of that always got new players, therefore always grew on population and remained true to their name. From EU if I wanted an uncontested temple, but was online on off peak hours, what server would I check? Gandara and Black Tide mostly. Why? Because I remember when I joined Underworld when it was still a medium pop server Gandara and Black Tide were those “cool” servers where everyone attempted to get in, even if that meant waiting for nighttime till the server goes from “Full” to “High Pop”.
Why this problem is hard to fix
Let’s imagine that we have two servers – a medium population server and a really high population server. We merge these two servers – not the high population server is too populated.
Then there are also some people that would deliberately chose a medium to low pop server. Always being more of a solo player myself that’s the attitude I had when I joined GW2. “I’m going to take a medium pop server, so I would be free from overflows and huge amounts of people”. As time went on my server gained quite the population. I haven’t left it because I came to love it. It’s my “home”. In WoW though my characters are still registered on a low to medium pop server. I feel intimidated by very huge mobs so that’s what I chose – servers that have people, but not an insane amount of them.
That’s why in my opinion guesting is a nice feature – maybe you love your medium pop server, but sometimes need a temple to buy gear. Guest! Maybe your server depopulated over time and you don’t have money to transfer – guest!
regarding guild population
I’m both in a very small guild and a big guild that doesn’t advertise or take in randoms and the only way to get in it is to be invited by a member. In the first guild I have my friends. They’re online only on on peak hours. We can organize, have a dungeon run, chat for a bit. But what happens when a player like me, that plays this game probably too much (because I have too much time on my hands) gets left alone at nighttime? Suddenly I get to continue exploring the world without the nice ability to chat with people. And I start missing communication. IN the bigger guild I don’t know the people very personally, however they seem a good lighthearted bunch. Do I like absolutely all of them? No. With some of them I argued a bit. Because the guild is big and there’s always someone there it’s natural to chat. Sometimes our opinions don’t meet up, but it’s more lively and interesting this way. Sometimes we start cracking jokes and suddenly leveling is not that boring. That’s why to extremely lonely people I suggest joining a big guild over a small one. I know what it means to attempt to recruit for a small guild. However I also know that there will always be people joining small guilds or creating guilds with their friends. However if you’re really really lonely a big guild makes sense. Though while we’re at it, why not join both? That way you’ll get a chance to meet everyone on the small guild on the popular hours, but still have someone to chat with at the off peak hours.

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

I never said the game doesn’t have legit issues. But yeah, every MMO I’ve played has legit issues. The issues in this game don’t seem much different than the issues on other games. Stuff needs to be fixed, some of it will eventually be fixed. Some people will wait around for those fixes and others will leave. Some new people will start playing to replace some of those who left. This forum looks exactly like every other MMORPG forum.

This doesn’t mean I’m trivilizing legit complaints. But saying the game is dying or people are leaving in droves isn’t a legit complaint, it’s at best an anecdotal bit of information that servers no real purpose. It doesn’t help or fix the game.

If you bring up the fact that we need more build variety, I’d not have said a word.

I agree. But there is a lot of static from the developers on some of the key issues that is becoming annoying. And by that I mean the major, gameplay breaking issues that have been reported since the beginning and still arent fixed…not the more trivial issues like loot drops and so on.

The problem is everyone has different “key” issues. There are people horribly annoyed that warriors do so much damage in PVe, for example, which I don’t really care much about. It would be nice if they did something about it, but it’s not a quality of life issue for me.

In fact, I bet my list of key issues is completely different from yours. lol

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

tolunart.2095:

killcannon.2576:

5. This statement makes no sense “Every single world event I go to is packed. Every one. Even ones that happen at the same time” How can you be a two or more world events at the same time?

Shortly after the patch tonight I was at the Fire Elemental event. When it was halfway dead, someone posted in chat “Hurry! Wurm pre-event is up!” As soon as I grabbed the loot from the FE I teleported to the Wurm event and got there just in time to see it spawn. There was already a crowd of people there who cleared the pre-events.

So, yes, there were two events going on at the same time, both with a crowd of people doing them, and I was at both.

But this is exactly whats wrong. You got to a zone, kill a boss (in less than 2 minutes with the exception of the Dragons, but even then is only Jormag that takes any time) and then you leave and go to the next one. How is that giving anyone the impression that those zones are full? They’re full for two minutes and empty for 2 hours.

Except that the bosses don’t spawn like clockwork. There are timer sites with windows. People go through the zone doing other stuff (not everyone but many) while waiting for the boss. Someone eventually annouces in map chat that the pre-event is up and everyone goes there.

This is particularly true when supported by specific dailies like Maguuma or Shiverpeak event completer.

It’s not just that people spent two minutes a zone. People spent half an hour in a zone which culminates in their guaranteed gold.

Last night, while running around Wayfarers waiting for the Maw, I got two rare drops from mobs. Then I got the guaranteed rare.

It was good fun.

And for everyone of you (or me, because I do that too when I am at a place to farm a boss), there are two who are standing at the pre events afk, or doing their nails.

Imagine instead, not having to do the Maw for the 100th time, but instead you got your other rare naturally. Or for the unlucky people who do not get rares falling from the sky (two rares? seriously?) getting all three rares naturally no matter where you decided to play.

Imagine killing that champ Abomination in orr and actually getting a decent reward for it, or any champion, or most vets. You may enjoy farming the WEB’s (that will catch on eventually), but not everyone does. Some people just want to play the game. You may like seeing a ton of people whenever you are farming them, I would settle for 4 people to show up at some events that don’t give guaranteed rares. And even if all those people are doing stuff in Wayfarers Foothills, what about the people who are doing a different area while all those players are waiting for Maw?

This isn’t about whether the game is dying or not, but more about hurtful and unnecessary game mechanics.

Vayne.8563:

But that’s how it is in all games. Even WoW has lower and higher population servers. Do you think WoW is dying with it’s ten million subscribers.

WoW does have some big issues atm. I’ve continued to play, off and on, since the release of this. I also still frequent the forums there.

The low/high pop server thing is a major issue, as a fair number have become absolute ghost towns. Also, a server transfer there is for 1 toon only, so for people like myself who have all 11 slots filled on a server… at $25 per transfer… its not really reasonable to expect us to pay that.

Blizzard tried implementing the CRZ (cross realm zones) but its honestly not enough. There are still economy & guild problems on low pop realms.

Also, their most recent quarterly report states a 1.3 million sub loss, which is bring the game down to 8 million subscribers.

Do I think WoW is dying? Nah, with its history I expect it to live for a very long time, even if it does lose its status as MMO king.

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

If you really wanted people to bother going to all the zones and staying there for any length of time you would have to implement Mat drops potentially being upscaled to your level just like items.

This will never happen.

But that won’t actually get people to the same zones, which is more what Anet is atempting to do with things like dailies and living stories. The world is too big for Anet not to attempt to focus the population more.

This is also true…see, we’re AGREEING with each other. Fancy a cup of tea and a biscuit?

This seems to happen a lot with me. I start off arguing with someone and the we end up agreeing. I’m really not as argumentative as people make me out to be. I just hate people making unsubstantiated claims and stating them as fact. Beyond that, I recognize the game needs a lot of work. But it’s still better for me than anything else out there (at last in MMORPG land).

tolunart.2095:

killcannon.2576:

tolunart.2095:

killcannon.2576:

5. This statement makes no sense “Every single world event I go to is packed. Every one. Even ones that happen at the same time” How can you be a two or more world events at the same time?

Shortly after the patch tonight I was at the Fire Elemental event. When it was halfway dead, someone posted in chat “Hurry! Wurm pre-event is up!” As soon as I grabbed the loot from the FE I teleported to the Wurm event and got there just in time to see it spawn. There was already a crowd of people there who cleared the pre-events.

So, yes, there were two events going on at the same time, both with a crowd of people doing them, and I was at both.

Uh…you completed the one event, then went to another event that just started. That is not at the same time.

Would be true though if you didn’t get credit for the event if you didn’t do the pre events which would be a good idea.

I’m not going to argue semantics with you. You asked, I answered. I don’t care if you reject the answer, the events happened concurrently.

You yourself stated they didn’t happen concurrently. You said “I finished the Fire elemental, then went to the worm, which had just started” That is not concurrently by any definition.

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

Vayne.8563:

pricer.5091:

If you really wanted people to bother going to all the zones and staying there for any length of time you would have to implement Mat drops potentially being upscaled to your level just like items.

This will never happen.

But that won’t actually get people to the same zones, which is more what Anet is atempting to do with things like dailies and living stories. The world is too big for Anet not to attempt to focus the population more.

This is also true…see, we’re AGREEING with each other. Fancy a cup of tea and a biscuit?

This seems to happen a lot with me. I start off arguing with someone and the we end up agreeing. I’m really not as argumentative as people make me out to be. I just hate people making unsubstantiated claims and stating them as fact. Beyond that, I recognize the game needs a lot of work. But it’s still better for me than anything else out there (at last in MMORPG land).

It is for me too, its just how long it remains that way that is the uncomfortable question. And some focus on some of the issues would be nice…..flaming Guardian Scepter auto tracking for one……..grrrr.

Although personally I think TESO will bomb, because people are expecting too much of it and will be disappointed even if its a very good game.

I think TESO will bomb because it’s a new MMO and people have no patience. People want bug fixes fast and it just can’t happen. They have not just expectations but unrealistic ones. I mean a lot of bugs in Guild Wars 2 have been fixed, but people don’t think about them once they have been. They only think about what hasn’t been fixed.

killcannon.2576:

You yourself stated they didn’t happen concurrently. You said “I finished the Fire elemental, then went to the worm, which had just started” That is not concurrently by any definition.

I consider the pre-event to be part of the meta-event chain. The FE begins with “destroy these blobs of chaos stuff” while the Wurm begins with “escort this guy through the swamp” so far as I can tell. Both events were happening at the same time, the Wurm pre-events finishing just as the FE died.

The gist of the statement was that there are large groups of people at each meta-event, even when they occur at the same time. I have witnessed this personally. Whether they both began exactly at 10:05 pm or one began at 10:08 pm is irrelevant.

Feel free to reject this explanation because it does not fit into your pre-existing assumptions.

Vayne.8563:

I think TESO will bomb because it’s a new MMO and people have no patience. People want bug fixes fast and it just can’t happen. They have not just expectations but unrealistic ones. I mean a lot of bugs in Guild Wars 2 have been fixed, but people don’t think about them once they have been. They only think about what hasn’t been fixed.

Bugs are the devs fault, they don’t get a cookie for making the game work as intended. They aren’t doing something for us by fixing their own mistakes. That’s like praising the wait staff for removing a fly from your soup.

There’s nothing to do, so players log in less and less frequently until they quit.
I’ve been online for max 2 hours last 2 weeks.
Yesterday I logged in, had absolutely nothing to do, so I just stood in LA for 1 hour.

pricer.5091:

Although personally I think TESO will bomb, because people are expecting too much of it and will be disappointed even if its a very good game.

It will be the same as every other MMO release. People will claim it’s the Rapture until beta info leaks (already happened) then they will rush through the game and complain there’s nothing to do, the population will drop after a month or so (especially if they charge a sub starting 30 days in) and people will claim it’s dying for the next several years.

Then they’ll release an expansion and the whole process begins anew.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

I think TESO will bomb because it’s a new MMO and people have no patience. People want bug fixes fast and it just can’t happen. They have not just expectations but unrealistic ones. I mean a lot of bugs in Guild Wars 2 have been fixed, but people don’t think about them once they have been. They only think about what hasn’t been fixed.

Bugs are the devs fault, they don’t get a cookie for making the game work as intended. They aren’t doing something for us by fixing their own mistakes. That’s like praising the wait staff for removing a fly from your soup.

Bugs are the devs fault. Interesting. Not necessarily 100% true.

It is true that SOME bugs are the devs fault, others come from things devs can’t possibly know before an update goes live. And then some things are simply hard to track.

If you have one person working on a project, and he’s doing one thing, then if something goes wrong, it’s his fault. If you have a hundred people working on code and that code all has to mesh and interface and work properly together…well…fault is a funny word.

Have you noticed that there are no big ambitious programs without tons and tons of bugs. From Microsoft Windows, to WoW, to high end flight sims…all programs have bugs. I guess the word fault is to say that devs were careless or didn’t think things through, but these systems are so complex, people can’t see everything. It’s reasonable to assume some mistakes were made and those errors are the fault of some devs. It’s just as reasonable to assume that some stuff happened that the devs couldn’t have forseen and therefore the word fault would be inappropriate.

Regardless, MMOs don’t function in a vacuum. If EVERY MMORPG has tons of bugs (and they all do), then clearly not all devs are incompetent. Bugs exist in big, ambitious programs and they get fixed as devs get the time to fix them. This is pretty much how ever big ambitious program works.

I never claimed devs deserve a cookie for making the game work as intended and I don’t see how you can get that from anything I’ve said. But I have said that reasonable expectations are different from unreasonable ones. If every single MMORPG has tons of bugs that go unfixed, one has to wonder why. Maybe it’s unreasonble to expect in a program of this scope that all or even most bugs will end up fixed, particularly because adding content often adds new bugs.

What am I doing?

Dungeons, personal story, dailies, and leveling up the remainder of 8 characters.

My guild runs nightly dungeons at 7pm PST (we’re always looking for more people). We try to avoid skipping or glitching anything – and we do NOT run the zerker speed farming. Rather we’re putting together balanced groups striving for things like the dungeon master title.

We’re always looking for more, and have 75 members at the moment, give or take a few. Maybe 20 or so are highly active, and another 20 are semi active.

Our server is so populated it is usually rated as full, and we’ve actually “hit a wall” recruiting in that we can’t get people onto the server who want to add into the guild.

I rarely go anywhere in this game, no matter how remote, without seeing somebody out there, hit overflows often, and get crowd lag in a number of places.

tolunart.2095:

pricer.5091:

Although personally I think TESO will bomb, because people are expecting too much of it and will be disappointed even if its a very good game.

It will be the same as every other MMO release. People will claim it’s the Rapture until beta info leaks (already happened) then they will rush through the game and complain there’s nothing to do, the population will drop after a month or so (especially if they charge a sub starting 30 days in) and people will claim it’s dying for the next several years.

Then they’ll release an expansion and the whole process begins anew.

I’m sure people will find things to complain about, but I doubt it will be that there is nothing to do. I’ve been following the news very intently and their skill progression system alone would take hundreds of hours to complete – going far past max level.

There is a real possibility that it will bomb. Especially considering the fine line they’re having to walk, all the different nails they have to hit right on the head…

Also, the leaked footage wasn’t amazing. It looked way too much like a typical MMO for anyone to be impressed by it. Jesse Cox says that when he first tried it, it looked different and more stylised – but it changed to that for this beta (which he also played). I’m hoping they go for a more stylised look, coz that footage was just blah…

WildStar is looking extremely good though. Has anyone here been following that? Great stuff coming from them.

I’ll be trying both – ESO for its deep and immersive PVE experience, WildStar for casual fun and its PVP (though I’m swaying more to WildStar with each new interview/blog/vlog).

Sleepless.1906:

I’m sure people will find things to complain about, but I doubt it will be that there is nothing to do. I’ve been following the news very intently and their skill progression system alone would take hundreds of hours to complete – going far past max level.

People have consumed Skyrim in a weekend. The tiniest minority of players, and the most vocal complainers on the forums, are those who throw themselves wholly into the game and rush through everything as quickly as possible in an effort to be the First to do… whatever. Someone will pay for the SuperExclusiveCollector Edition and five day headstart just so they can brag they were max level four days before the game launched. If there is progression beyond max level someone will sit there with a case of Red Bull and play until they reach the end, or die trying – occasionally a real fate.

My whole life I’ve tried to overestimate the foolishness that people are capable of, and every time they surprise me by going beyond expectations.

Nick.6972:

There’s nothing to do, so players log in less and less frequently until they quit.
I’ve been online for max 2 hours last 2 weeks.
Yesterday I logged in, had absolutely nothing to do, so I just stood in LA for 1 hour.

I’m kind in the same situation. I tried logging in to do something, but just can’t find much I “want” to do. Right now I’m aiming for my dungeon master and try to do more fotm so I can see what it is like at high level.

On the other hand, I’ll probably play this mmorpg for a very long time. Because it is so casual, I don’t felt I have to “keep up” and play everyday.

Mirta:

On Servers:
New players have no idea about your personal anecdotes with the servers. On occasion one pops up on the forums asking which is a good server to join, and I have to answer TC because that’s where I see the majority of positive posts come from about healthy player population. The new players who don’t? Well they are screwed till they find out later, if they find out later and haven’t stopped playing because they chose incorrectly. The questions become, Should Anet track servers by actual player numbers instead of accounts? Should Anet step in and merge low player pop servers?(would be bad pr if they do, one reason why we won’t see it even if it is necessary) Should Anet only allow transfers to lower pop or decrease the amount required to transfer to a lower pop server to balance populations? I would say yes to all those simply for the sake of game balance, but that’s only my op. And doesn’t address the problem in the first place. Guesting actually compounds the problem. It maintains the idea that a server has high pop while there may actually be a much lower population. Anet is actually lying to new players when they go to chose a server. I’m not 100%, but I believe WoW servers track by people actually playing rather than GW2’s version of accounts made.

On Guilds
I think people should join large guilds if they choose to, or small ones or medium ones. But it doesn’t address zone population at all. It just gives someone to chat with, or call upon if they really need help. It’s an artificial solution to the issue. It addresses symptoms, not the problem.What are the guilds doing? The same thing everyone else is, farming world events, doing the pent/shelt run, occasionally doing Guild events. The problem with the population isn’t whether you’re in a guild or not, but that there is no reason to go to these zones because there is no chest there. I am not saying put chests there, I’m saying remove the need to farm chests. Or put chests everywhere and tie them into the zone in a meaningful way. Being in a guild doesn’t magically populate a zone you’re leveling in. It doesn’t magically make people show up at events naturally.

There is one thing you mentioned though does actually address the problem.

It’s the same way in all games
What makes GW2 different than almost any other mmo out there? Down leveling. Any zone can be just as relevant as any other zone. It’s a core feature, something the entire game was built around. But by adding chest events to only certain zones, this is no longer true and shifts population density. And even shifts density within those zones to areas only around the event.

This is the problem. This is why I say that the checklist doesn’t address it, and it doesn’t. It just mollifies people. New players see dead areas, they don’t see a population, they don’t see guilds. And Anet has the tools to fix it, they even built their game around these tools.

I want to see a living world again. I don’t want to see globs of people standing on a hill waiting for the sky to fall.

killcannon.2576:

Mirta:

On Servers:
New players have no idea about your personal anecdotes with the servers. On occasion one pops up on the forums asking which is a good server to join, and I have to answer TC because that’s where I see the majority of positive posts come from about healthy player population. The new players who don’t? Well they are screwed till they find out later, if they find out later and haven’t stopped playing because they chose incorrectly. The questions become, Should Anet track servers by actual player numbers instead of accounts? Should Anet step in and merge low player pop servers?(would be bad pr if they do, one reason why we won’t see it even if it is necessary) Should Anet only allow transfers to lower pop or decrease the amount required to transfer to a lower pop server to balance populations? I would say yes to all those simply for the sake of game balance, but that’s only my op. And doesn’t address the problem in the first place. Guesting actually compounds the problem. It maintains the idea that a server has high pop while there may actually be a much lower population. Anet is actually lying to new players when they go to chose a server. I’m not 100%, but I believe WoW servers track by people actually playing rather than GW2’s version of accounts made.

On Guilds
I think people should join large guilds if they choose to, or small ones or medium ones. But it doesn’t address zone population at all. It just gives someone to chat with, or call upon if they really need help. It’s an artificial solution to the issue. It addresses symptoms, not the problem.What are the guilds doing? The same thing everyone else is, farming world events, doing the pent/shelt run, occasionally doing Guild events. The problem with the population isn’t whether you’re in a guild or not, but that there is no reason to go to these zones because there is no chest there. I am not saying put chests there, I’m saying remove the need to farm chests. Or put chests everywhere and tie them into the zone in a meaningful way. Being in a guild doesn’t magically populate a zone you’re leveling in. It doesn’t magically make people show up at events naturally.

There is one thing you mentioned though does actually address the problem.

It’s the same way in all games
What makes GW2 different than almost any other mmo out there? Down leveling. Any zone can be just as relevant as any other zone. It’s a core feature, something the entire game was built around. But by adding chest events to only certain zones, this is no longer true and shifts population density. And even shifts density within those zones to areas only around the event.

This is the problem. This is why I say that the checklist doesn’t address it, and it doesn’t. It just mollifies people. New players see dead areas, they don’t see a population, they don’t see guilds. And Anet has the tools to fix it, they even built their game around these tools.

I want to see a living world again. I don’t want to see globs of people standing on a hill waiting for the sky to fall.

I’ve played on five or six different servers and most of the ones I’ve been to have people in other zones besides the event zones. I tend to go to higher pop servers like Blackgate, Sea of Sorrows, KC that sort of thing and yes, there are people in other zones and not at events.

I’m thinking that there are two things going on here. First is that the zones are huge. Do you know how many times I’m in a zone and I see no one, and then I post on map chat with a waypoint about an event and half a dozen people show up? I’ve lost count of how many times that happens.

And other times people respond in map chat and tell me they’re busy. If people don’t use map chat to find people in zones these size, they might as well think they’re alone.

Even just the layout of the zones. I’m in a cave doing a jumping puzzle, someone is 20 feet away from me around a corner. They have no idea I’m there.

It’s just not that simple to say zones are empty even if they seem empty.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure why people are so anxious to prove a game is dying with no evidence to back it up.

If it wasn’t made by Blizzard and it doesn’t have elves, orcs, raids, and two factions – it must suck and be a dying game. :P

Vayne.8563:

I’m thinking that there are two things going on here. First is that the zones are huge. Do you know how many times I’m in a zone and I see no one, and then I post on map chat with a waypoint about an event and half a dozen people show up? I’ve lost count of how many times that happens.

Where are you going that you see no one? I’ve tried hiding in caves in remote spots away from any map icon and people still show up.

The reality is the GW2 open world is so big and have so many zones. And if they release more zones in the future, it’ll get even harder to fill all the zones.

And reality is I don’t find any reason to go back to a zone unless for world chest or doing guild event or map completion.

Vayne.8563:

It’s just not that simple to say zones are empty even if they seem empty.

But it’s the easy way out. Even assuming people don’t make these claims to stir up trouble, the MMO genre has been engineered to encourage long term commitment to a character, to a guild, to a game. Telling yourself that servers are empty and toons are dropping like flies in October is a good way to prepare yourself to quit a game that your mind doesn’t want to let go of. Pouring hundreds, even thousands of hours into a single character in a single game is tough to abandon, and it’s easier to go along with the crowd. So if you can convince yourself – and others – that “everyone” is jumping from the game to The Next Big Thing, then you’re more likely to feel alright about doing it.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

I think TESO will bomb because it’s a new MMO and people have no patience. People want bug fixes fast and it just can’t happen. They have not just expectations but unrealistic ones. I mean a lot of bugs in Guild Wars 2 have been fixed, but people don’t think about them once they have been. They only think about what hasn’t been fixed.

Bugs are the devs fault, they don’t get a cookie for making the game work as intended. They aren’t doing something for us by fixing their own mistakes. That’s like praising the wait staff for removing a fly from your soup.

Bugs are the devs fault. Interesting. Not necessarily 100% true.

It is true that SOME bugs are the devs fault, others come from things devs can’t possibly know before an update goes live. And then some things are simply hard to track.

If you have one person working on a project, and he’s doing one thing, then if something goes wrong, it’s his fault. If you have a hundred people working on code and that code all has to mesh and interface and work properly together…well…fault is a funny word.

Have you noticed that there are no big ambitious programs without tons and tons of bugs. From Microsoft Windows, to WoW, to high end flight sims…all programs have bugs. I guess the word fault is to say that devs were careless or didn’t think things through, but these systems are so complex, people can’t see everything. It’s reasonable to assume some mistakes were made and those errors are the fault of some devs. It’s just as reasonable to assume that some stuff happened that the devs couldn’t have forseen and therefore the word fault would be inappropriate.

Regardless, MMOs don’t function in a vacuum. If EVERY MMORPG has tons of bugs (and they all do), then clearly not all devs are incompetent. Bugs exist in big, ambitious programs and they get fixed as devs get the time to fix them. This is pretty much how ever big ambitious program works.

I never claimed devs deserve a cookie for making the game work as intended and I don’t see how you can get that from anything I’ve said. But I have said that reasonable expectations are different from unreasonable ones. If every single MMORPG has tons of bugs that go unfixed, one has to wonder why. Maybe it’s unreasonble to expect in a program of this scope that all or even most bugs will end up fixed, particularly because adding content often adds new bugs.

I realize there will always be bugs, and new bugs will pop up, as well as exploits.

What I do not expect is that my flamethrower will not work as intended 9 months after the bug was reported while giving me or anyone else no feedback. Unreasonable would be to fix it in a day/week/maybe a month. Nine months? Don’t think so. They are constantly hiring, so it can’t be manpower eh?

The same goes for this open world pve population debacle, to bring it back to the topic. People are reporting not seeing as many people now, and actually have been for awhile. Do I think it’s because of a population decline? possibly but I have no proof. Is it much more likely that it is caused by the changes made by Anet to the world event chests? I would say yes. Do I think that some posters just say the world is dying because they are angry about something? Yep. Do I think that they are all lying? Nope, too many new posters with no known agenda. Plus I see it too, and I like the game.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Mirta:

On Servers:
New players have no idea about your personal anecdotes with the servers. On occasion one pops up on the forums asking which is a good server to join, and I have to answer TC because that’s where I see the majority of positive posts come from about healthy player population. The new players who don’t? Well they are screwed till they find out later, if they find out later and haven’t stopped playing because they chose incorrectly. The questions become, Should Anet track servers by actual player numbers instead of accounts? Should Anet step in and merge low player pop servers?(would be bad pr if they do, one reason why we won’t see it even if it is necessary) Should Anet only allow transfers to lower pop or decrease the amount required to transfer to a lower pop server to balance populations? I would say yes to all those simply for the sake of game balance, but that’s only my op. And doesn’t address the problem in the first place. Guesting actually compounds the problem. It maintains the idea that a server has high pop while there may actually be a much lower population. Anet is actually lying to new players when they go to chose a server. I’m not 100%, but I believe WoW servers track by people actually playing rather than GW2’s version of accounts made.

On Guilds
I think people should join large guilds if they choose to, or small ones or medium ones. But it doesn’t address zone population at all. It just gives someone to chat with, or call upon if they really need help. It’s an artificial solution to the issue. It addresses symptoms, not the problem.What are the guilds doing? The same thing everyone else is, farming world events, doing the pent/shelt run, occasionally doing Guild events. The problem with the population isn’t whether you’re in a guild or not, but that there is no reason to go to these zones because there is no chest there. I am not saying put chests there, I’m saying remove the need to farm chests. Or put chests everywhere and tie them into the zone in a meaningful way. Being in a guild doesn’t magically populate a zone you’re leveling in. It doesn’t magically make people show up at events naturally.

There is one thing you mentioned though does actually address the problem.

It’s the same way in all games
What makes GW2 different than almost any other mmo out there? Down leveling. Any zone can be just as relevant as any other zone. It’s a core feature, something the entire game was built around. But by adding chest events to only certain zones, this is no longer true and shifts population density. And even shifts density within those zones to areas only around the event.

This is the problem. This is why I say that the checklist doesn’t address it, and it doesn’t. It just mollifies people. New players see dead areas, they don’t see a population, they don’t see guilds. And Anet has the tools to fix it, they even built their game around these tools.

I want to see a living world again. I don’t want to see globs of people standing on a hill waiting for the sky to fall.

I’ve played on five or six different servers and most of the ones I’ve been to have people in other zones besides the event zones. I tend to go to higher pop servers like Blackgate, Sea of Sorrows, KC that sort of thing and yes, there are people in other zones and not at events.

I’m thinking that there are two things going on here. First is that the zones are huge. Do you know how many times I’m in a zone and I see no one, and then I post on map chat with a waypoint about an event and half a dozen people show up? I’ve lost count of how many times that happens.

And other times people respond in map chat and tell me they’re busy. If people don’t use map chat to find people in zones these size, they might as well think they’re alone.

Even just the layout of the zones. I’m in a cave doing a jumping puzzle, someone is 20 feet away from me around a corner. They have no idea I’m there.

It’s just not that simple to say zones are empty even if they seem empty.

Do you know how many times I post in map chat about an event and no one shows up? Plenty

More anecdotal evidence doesn’t disprove my anecdotal evidence. Everything you state I can state the opposite of. The thing is, more and more people are posting anecdotal evidence to support zones without a steady population. You want to ignore it, I choose not to.

And you even state you only go to high pop servers….Guest over to my server sometime, then make the same claim.

killcannon.2576:

Do you know how many times I post in map chat about an event and no one shows up? Plenty

With that attitude, you better be beside me when I’m asking for help in map chat.

I’m sure people will show up if it is an event “with world chest”.

Other than that, other event have like a respawn rates of 20 minutes. Which have like no purpose. So what if you complete an event, it respawn in 20 minutes and give nothing in rewards.

To killcannon:
On servers
I wouldn’t consider it to be an anecdote. Servers are indeed divided by what they do and some people do indeed like to stay on low pop servers. Now things that in my opinion might help:
1. Track server population by the amount of people that are logged on at the moment. I do understand that servers can’t handle more than a certain amount of accounts. However writing “full – 355004 currently online” or “high population – 78942 currently online” would probably help a great deal.
2. Servers that named themselves “unofficial (insert name here)” and actually are doing just that activity should be named officially. That way people wouldn’t get confused. Servers that didn’t chose a role shouldn’t be given one. That way we would see a list like this:
Tarnished Coast [RP] high population 58422 currently online
Underworld high population 42687 currently online
“insert server name here” [insert the role that they chose if they chose any] then how many accounts are registered and how many people are currently online.
or some stuff like this.
3. Having in mind that some people like playing on low pop servers and some high pop servers already have issues with overflow everywhere I don’t think that merging would be a good idea. However making transfers to low pop servers free and transfers to medium pop cost ridiculously little (like 200 gems) would probably be a good idea on server balancing. They do currently allow free transfers if you have no characters and make transferring to high population servers expensive, but I suppose making the price gap even bigger might be a good idea.
4. I think that guesting should stay. It’s a nice little invention and really helps with the temples. Either that or move karma armor vendors out of the temples and make sure that people would be able to get full map completion even if temples are contested (If a certain temple is contested a statue with a skill point will spawn vines that inflict continuous damage therefore making sure that you can’t commune or get the skill point).
And yes, WoW does track servers by currently online and not total accounts tied to the server. However I imagine that GW2 can’t host more than certain amount of accounts on the server and that’s why the system is what it is.
regarding guilds
depends on what guild you join. Mine currently has a lot of players like me that are leveling an alt. We recently got some members from inactive casual guild that now host casual games every day when they’re online. It might not magically populate the zone, but it gives you some people to talk, interact and even level with. It always depends on what guild you join and what are they focused on.
regarding living world
I don’t think that removing current events that give a chest would solve it. They are moving to the right direction. They got people out of LA and CoF. Now they have to introduce something interesting that would spread the players around a bit. Living story does it quite well. Though I don’t really know how to fix the lump problem. You see every MMO reaches it, the only difference is where the lump is. In WoW for example the lump is in the end game zones only. In guild wars 2 the lump is in 20 zones, 1 city and 1 dungeon entrance. I can’t think of a way to make the population spread but still keep it dense. Because leveling areas have population that’s all over the place. That’s why you rarely see anyone. World boss events has the population lumped together.

laokoko.7403:

killcannon.2576:

Do you know how many times I post in map chat about an event and no one shows up? Plenty

With that attitude, you better be beside me when I’m asking for help in map chat.

I’m sure people will show up if it is an event “with world chest”.

Other than that, other event have like a respawn rates of 20 minutes. Which have like no purpose. So what if you complete an event, it respawn in 20 minutes and give nothing in rewards.

It’s what I generally do. I consider myself a roamer. I don’t farm, seldom do the world event shuffle, and join dungeons even if I don’t need to go there to help out.

Mirta.5029:

To killcannon:
On servers
I wouldn’t consider it to be an anecdote. Servers are indeed divided by what they do and some people do indeed like to stay on low pop servers. Now things that in my opinion might help:
1. Track server population by the amount of people that are logged on at the moment. I do understand that servers can’t handle more than a certain amount of accounts. However writing “full – 355004 currently online” or “high population – 78942 currently online” would probably help a great deal.
2. Servers that named themselves “unofficial (insert name here)” and actually are doing just that activity should be named officially. That way people wouldn’t get confused. Servers that didn’t chose a role shouldn’t be given one. That way we would see a list like this:
Tarnished Coast [RP] high population 58422 currently online
Underworld high population 42687 currently online
“insert server name here” [insert the role that they chose if they chose any] then how many accounts are registered and how many people are currently online.
or some stuff like this.
3. Having in mind that some people like playing on low pop servers and some high pop servers already have issues with overflow everywhere I don’t think that merging would be a good idea. However making transfers to low pop servers free and transfers to medium pop cost ridiculously little (like 200 gems) would probably be a good idea on server balancing. They do currently allow free transfers if you have no characters and make transferring to high population servers expensive, but I suppose making the price gap even bigger might be a good idea.
4. I think that guesting should stay. It’s a nice little invention and really helps with the temples. Either that or move karma armor vendors out of the temples and make sure that people would be able to get full map completion even if temples are contested (If a certain temple is contested a statue with a skill point will spawn vines that inflict continuous damage therefore making sure that you can’t commune or get the skill point).
And yes, WoW does track servers by currently online and not total accounts tied to the server. However I imagine that GW2 can’t host more than certain amount of accounts on the server and that’s why the system is what it is.
regarding guilds
depends on what guild you join. Mine currently has a lot of players like me that are leveling an alt. We recently got some members from inactive casual guild that now host casual games every day when they’re online. It might not magically populate the zone, but it gives you some people to talk, interact and even level with. It always depends on what guild you join and what are they focused on.
regarding living world
I don’t think that removing current events that give a chest would solve it. They are moving to the right direction. They got people out of LA and CoF. Now they have to introduce something interesting that would spread the players around a bit. Living story does it quite well. Though I don’t really know how to fix the lump problem. You see every MMO reaches it, the only difference is where the lump is. In WoW for example the lump is in the end game zones only. In guild wars 2 the lump is in 20 zones, 1 city and 1 dungeon entrance. I can’t think of a way to make the population spread but still keep it dense. Because leveling areas have population that’s all over the place. That’s why you rarely see anyone. World boss events has the population lumped together.

Those are all great ideas. I also don’t think they should remove the chests, but they should tie them into the zones more.

The thing about GW is that it shouldn’t have a “lump” problem, not if certain mechanics were changed. The only reason certain content is favored here over others is because of rewards, and if they spread these out more or make them not just a simple event of killing the maw with 30 people that takes a minute, I believe they could do it and make the world a better experience.

Thank you for the discussion Mirta, enjoyed it.

killcannon.2576:

laokoko.7403:

killcannon.2576:

Do you know how many times I post in map chat about an event and no one shows up? Plenty

With that attitude, you better be beside me when I’m asking for help in map chat.

I’m sure people will show up if it is an event “with world chest”.

Other than that, other event have like a respawn rates of 20 minutes. Which have like no purpose. So what if you complete an event, it respawn in 20 minutes and give nothing in rewards.

It’s what I generally do. I consider myself a roamer. I don’t farm, seldom do the world event shuffle, and join dungeons even if I don’t need to go there to help out.

ya I aint going to do an event which serves no purpose because it don’t give rewards and it just respawn every 20 minutes. If you felt like redoing the same event every 20 minutes when it is up till the end of time feel free.

I can tell you that you’ll find people doing the world meta event because they give chest. And queensdale is usually full of people right after daily reset. You just have to know where to look.

laokoko.7403:

killcannon.2576:

Do you know how many times I post in map chat about an event and no one shows up? Plenty

With that attitude, you better be beside me when I’m asking for help in map chat.

I’m sure people will show up if it is an event “with world chest”.

Other than that, other event have like a respawn rates of 20 minutes. Which have like no purpose. So what if you complete an event, it respawn in 20 minutes and give nothing in rewards.

From the guy who refuses to go to a more populated server, of which there are many. Noted.

Again I’d rather light a candle than complain about darkness.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

killcannon.2576:

Do you know how many times I post in map chat about an event and no one shows up? Plenty

With that attitude, you better be beside me when I’m asking for help in map chat.

I’m sure people will show up if it is an event “with world chest”.

Other than that, other event have like a respawn rates of 20 minutes. Which have like no purpose. So what if you complete an event, it respawn in 20 minutes and give nothing in rewards.

From the guy who refuses to go to a more populated server, of which there are many. Noted.

Again I’d rather light a candle than complain about darkness.

Sigh. I would prefer to bring light into the darkness than huddle in my home over a feeble candle.

I expect the next new, unique poster to be inundated with clever prose as well. Shame clever prose doesn’t fix anything.

killcannon.2576:

Sigh. I would prefer to bring light into the darkness than huddle in my home over a feeble candle.

I expect the next new, unique poster to be inundated with clever prose as well. Shame clever prose doesn’t fix anything.

well here’s one. I think Anet proclaimed to have 1500 dynamic events (I’m not sure how they count it because I dont’ believe there’s that many). Every events take like 6 minutes to finish. First of all, people dont’ even want to do them because they give no rewards. Second of all, after most people tried it once they dont’ want to do it again. What’s the chance anyone is doing the exact same quest as you.

I havent ever played a buy-to-play game before and I won’t again. It’s the RNG thats doing that for me. So, on a whim I just took every last cent I had (87g) and blew it on exotic greatswords that I then threw in the forge….and you know what I got? Thats right…nothing, I have ended up with one Valkyrie Pearl Broadsword. In total I have thrown over 350g into the mystic forge over the course of the last three months.

And that is why, I am not going to be playing anymore, unless I really am so desperately bored that this garbage becomes desirable.

If this was a pay to play game I would have deleted it a long time ago. Much as they had issues, there were epic things I remember from other games….the only thing I remember from this game is endless grind (more than any other game i ever played)and RNG.

So much for the “anti-grinding” game. Sure if you actually dont want anything and just want to play an hour or so a day…great…you’d still get bored eventually, but I understand. You’re probably the type of person that replays Angry Birds. If however you want T3 armor, legendary, rare exotics etc….there is not a game in the world more grindy than this one.

laokoko.7403:

killcannon.2576:

Sigh. I would prefer to bring light into the darkness than huddle in my home over a feeble candle.

I expect the next new, unique poster to be inundated with clever prose as well. Shame clever prose doesn’t fix anything.

well here’s one. I think Anet proclaimed to have 1500 dynamic events (I’m not sure how they count it because I dont’ believe there’s that many). Every events take like 6 minutes to finish. First of all, people dont’ even want to do them because they give no rewards. Second of all, after most people tried it once they dont’ want to do it again. What’s the chance anyone is doing the exact same quest as you.

Very little. Generally you announce in chat if you need assistance with an event. I don’t generally need help with events though unless it’s a high level group thing. I complain more about the general lack of activity in the middle, leveling zones. I suppose increasing event rewards world wide would help, but I expect it would just cause people to do repeatable events over and over instead of spreading out.

Optimally, I would like to see chest events for all zones tied into zone spanning metas, that would carry people all across a zone instead of just one small area of each one. Tying the rewards from the chest into how much of the meta you have completed would help to reduce those people who only want to farm event chests, and increase rare drop chance across the board. Also give Vets and Champs specific loot tables that could include multiple craft bag drops or other items to make them worthwhile but not quite farmable.

The main reason why people bunch up in the first place is reward, they just need to spread it a little more evenly. I expect most of the people complaining here don’t want their mindless farming nerfed.

I used to play www and pve from dungeons to other stuff…

Every “balancing” patch cuts away a part of the game for me…i now play almost only fractals….they “balanced” even that last patch but still not enough…..i bet next patch they will “balance” it more so i will have to quit even fotms……

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

killcannon.2576:

Do you know how many times I post in map chat about an event and no one shows up? Plenty

With that attitude, you better be beside me when I’m asking for help in map chat.

I’m sure people will show up if it is an event “with world chest”.

Other than that, other event have like a respawn rates of 20 minutes. Which have like no purpose. So what if you complete an event, it respawn in 20 minutes and give nothing in rewards.

From the guy who refuses to go to a more populated server, of which there are many. Noted.

Again I’d rather light a candle than complain about darkness.

Sigh. I would prefer to bring light into the darkness than huddle in my home over a feeble candle.

I expect the next new, unique poster to be inundated with clever prose as well. Shame clever prose doesn’t fix anything.

You’ve yet to prove that this is specifically something that needs to be fixed.

You seem to think there are enough people playing ANY MMO to have traffic in all zones on all servers. As long as you believe this, there’s nothing else I can say. It doesn’t exist in any MMO because it’s really not possible.

In most games, most zones are dead except for end game zones. The fact that Guild Wars 2 has some traffic in other zones is not a bad thing, but there’s never going to be tons of people in every zone, because if every zone was viable the population would be spread too thin. You see a problem where no problem really exists.

There will always be places where people group, because people like to group. All you can do as a dev is give them predictable places to group or control where they group.

Clever lines aside, you’re still missing my point. This simply is not a problem.