Guild Wars 2

as i’m sure was stated before. there is no grind for anything necessary. Leveling curve is absolutely fine, and exotic gear drops enough. As for fractals and ascended gear, that’s a bit of a grind but it’s not too bad, especially if you enjoy eotm

Trouble, you should know by now that any thread posted by a player that implies a grievance about the game will immediately be shut down by the forum police. I agree with you in most regards except the grind. I enjoy the grind. But I would agree that the grind would be much better had the developers truly explored the possibilities of this game instead of simply scratching the surface.

The game is awesome and people want to keep playing, but… There is so much repetition people can actually enjoy. Expect even less new content now that the Chinese market is the main concern of anet.

break between living story seasons kinda showed, that core game is “empty”. i really enjoy and like gw2, but after reaching lvl80, opening some maps you just hit the brick wall.

it’s great game for people with ‘collectors mindset’, when u can utilize all game systems to gain new “collectables” , but for me, hmm, nothing essential to go for, nothing new to see, experience or do.

saddest thing – gw2 is best mmo out there, it’s just that there nothing to do in it

I must agree that is there is no real reason to keep playing much after you get your legendary/ascended gear, game will feel really empty, i already did stop playing, only doing dailies, till there is actual new content.

Amere.9607:

saddest thing – gw2 is best mmo out there, it’s just that there nothing to do in it

There’s plenty to do in it, until you’ve done all of it. Same goes for any game.

Xenon.4537:

Amere.9607:

saddest thing – gw2 is best mmo out there, it’s just that there nothing to do in it

There’s plenty to do in it, until you’ve done all of it. Same goes for any game.

yes, but it’s a mmo? or not? i said nothing bad about gw2, just that for me(and i like this game) there’s nothing to do i don’t like AP, i don’t like collecting i want just to level and play my power fantasy game. gw2 is about nice skins and teddy bears and gimmicky game mechanics for dungeons and fractals, it’s even more <em>gimmicky</em> obscure with group content.. but ok, i’m not trolling, i’m not blaming or hating. just saying – for someone without collectors mindest game is kinda empty(mmo).

Jaken.6801:

i recently made a list of content that has stayed.
It is quite a lot.
Most of it is of course polishing and QOL stuff, but hey. they changed the feeling of the game significantly in my opinion.
(Starting from the queens jubilee, till now)
(Excuse the weird formating, i just copy and pasted it from my document)

General Changes
- Magic find changes (accountbound stat now) and its new mechanics
- Critical damage change into ferocity
- New combat visuals, like damage markers and AoE signs for worldbosses
- Introduction of ascended armors and weapons
- Upgrade to the ascended and legendary rarities, like acountbound and stat switching
- New crafting levels with new recipes
- Complete revamp of sigils and runes
- looking for group tool
- Lot`s of UI changes, like in PvP, WvW etc…
- Trait and Tooltips now show exact numbers
- The Megaserver system
- Repair and retrait costs removed
- There is now a wardrobe in game

PvE
- Tequattle is now a Hardcore Boss
o He drops unique items and themed ascended weapons and armor
- New Hardcore Worldboss “Tripple Trouble”
o A three headed Worm, which needs around 150 coordinated player
o Has its own unique mechanics and rewards (hardest boss in game right now)
- Worldbosses got a reward overhaul as well as a timer to make them more challenging
- There is a new path in the Twilight Arbor Dungeon, themed around the living story season 1 for lvl 80 characters
o Twilight Arbor got unique skin drops
- Fractals got an upgrade
o Three new Fractals
Molten Alliance
Aetherblades
Thaumanova Reactor
o Two new Boss Fractals
Molten Berserker
Mai Trin
o Bosses appear after every run
o Fractallvl is now accountwide
o Starting at lvl 31 you get punished with an handicap called Mistlock
o Rework of Agony
o Reward reworked
- The Living Story Season 1 has concluded, leaving in its wake:
o The destruction of Lions Arch
All LA unique facilities have been moved to vigil keep
o Kessex Hills got redesigned after they introduced the tower of nightmares, which was a giant construction in the lake
o There are new events in the world, based on remnants of the living story
o New items were introduced
Watchwork sprockets
Poison pollen

WvW
- The Borderlands got a complete overhaul and a new “Bloodlust” mechanic
o There is now less water on the map, but some nice ruins and objectives to capture
- The rewards got updated to reflect changes in the game
- The WvW UI got a drastic overhaul, offering real time data
- The obsidian sanctum is now a separate zone you can log into.
o It got expanded to cater to the Guild vs Guild people
o You have the ability to party up with other servers people to finish the puzzle
- A new Map was introduced called “Edge of the Mists”
o It is always available, even if all other WvW maps are full
o It resets every two hours
o Has unique objectives
o Teammembers are based on the color they represent in WvW right now and not on server
o WvW rank is now acountbound

PvP
- Glory and armor rewards have been removed in favour of a new system
- Costs for Ranks have been adjusted
- A Complete new rewardsystem which allows for gold and items of PvE
- New Arenatype: Duell

Classes
- A lot of balancing
- A new Healskill for every class
- The Traitsystem got a complete overhaul
o Every class got 5 new grandmaster traits
o Some traits get only unlocked after you explored the world in PvE
- Critical Damage has been removed and got exchanged for a new stat: “Ferocity”

Gemstore
- A few UI Improvements
- New Hairtypes in the stylingkit
- You can now buy unlimited finisher to punish your enemies
- New Booster
- New Armors in the shop

Nope, nothing permanently changed to the game… just these minor things…

Half of your list should have been included during launch. Aside from balancing and bug fixing the game is barren of new content. Re-skinning maps and buffing existing world bosses is NOT new content. Yes, some of the Living Story was fun, but it was quick and very possible to complete in two hours or less at a casual pace. And when those two hours of fun were over so was the “new” content.

It’s a new kind of elitism and it’s tolerated sadly. When they made this a dungeon focused game and started nerfing certain classes in PVE and certain damage types (which lead to the Zerker paradigm we see now) certain classes were being denied access to dungeons simply because they weren’t as powerful as those that did Arah dungeons solo.

So it’s nothing new actually, they “innovated” the game right out of diverse gameplay is what happened.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats preciesly the source of the problem ProtoGunner but I disagree that shifting reward will ever solve anything. It will just spiral in a vicious circle. Think about it so you make Veteran loot just as good if not better then champion loot, now you get a veteran train and those veteran karka will be child’s play to kill. So now If you want a challenge you have to fight champions, in small groups of 2 or 3 players champions are a joy to fight.

But now we’re back to square one champions arent worth fighting because veterans have such good rewards so we improve their rewards once again and now we’re back to square one. Repeat ad infinitum.

What I Am trying to say is this is not something that can be fixed through rewards this is about what players really value.

Arenanet made a game that empowers players by not limiting them in anyway. In your typical MMO there will not be a zerg train making champion mobs trivial to kill because your typical mmo has mob tagging. Your typical MMO uses such rules to force you to play by its rules not by how you want to play it.

Your typical MMO will have players enjoying the difficulty of its veteran level equivalent not because it drops better loot then the champion equivalent but because veteran level is more accessable. Its more accessable not because Gw2 does anything wrong but because your typical mmo creates barriers for players to tackle the champion equivalent. You need the proper group composition, if someone else engages the boss you need to wait for it to respawn you cant simply join in. If you dont have a party you need to create one can simply join a party thats already there etc…

But all this freedom comes at a price. The game doesnt force any direction on the player but the player now has to take the direction they want themselves and seems to me a lot of times they find themselves conflicted between extrinsic rewards and intrinsic rewards. In a lot of cases a lot of people seems to choose extrinsic over intrinsic even though generally intrinsic is more fulfilling.

You know we talked a lot about how I find the cash-shop is bad for the game. Well here is one of your examples.

No you need specific rewarding loot in specific places. Problem is that the type of loot they should put there is the stuff they are selling in the cash-shop.

For example, the Karka can drop one specific color that does not drop any-ware else and is not in the cash-shop (but can be sold on the TP) and it can drop a mini-version of itself and it can drop a specific skin.

Now another boss drops another mini and another color another skin.

Yet another boss only drops a specific skin and so on.

Meanwhile you make sure you have less general drops and don’t have that sort of rewards in the cash-shop.

That would mean that the game would become less of a gold-grind because you can get most items in the game-word itself and running around with a zerg is not so rewarding anymore because if everybody starts to loot one type of content the value of that item will drop because it overflows on the TP.

Besides gold would then also be not as important to get anything as it is now.

In addition make mats farmable as well and gone is your vicious circle.

That would mean that the game would become less of a gold-grind because you can get most items in the game-word itself and running around with a zerg is not so rewarding anymore because if everybody starts to loot one type of content the value of that item will drop because it overflows on the TP.

nope just, it’s not how it works and even if you still have to deal with, minimum 2 different mindsets out there. skins aren’t expensive because they are rare, they are expensive because most of community doesn’t give a **** about skins, they just want to play the game.

and there’s abstract demand/suply “economy” for rare pink swords, when not that much ppl need them. biggest game problem is that, there no “unite” good for all players (ecto globe let’s say), that would evaluete all stuff on market…. na, market is built around hunting some rare stuff. and in the end every1 is hunting gold just to stay in touch.

so economy goes around bags and salvagalable stuff, but legendaries and precursors are flipped by ac flippers. easy as that – if there was economy based on grind and, you know, supply chains with mats and bag – precursors are just random like, you know, some1 was crafting hammers for weeks,days, years and crafted a “legendary whatever-hammer” ::)

because that’s how economy and production works gw2 tries to keep prices (+/- it does that, if ur not buing silks that is)… and in the end you have “state economy”, something that communism shouldn’t be, but became in the end. :]

Trouble.3859:

…… I remember a few years ago when Arenanet insisted that Guild Wars 2 would be a game with no grind…..

You remember wrong. It was stated that the game would not have REQUIRED grind. No MMO can exist without some sort of progression that requires time and effort at the end game. Still, you don’t HAVE to perform the grind to obtain sufficient equipment to actually PLAY the game.

Some of the OPs statements are not untrue, but the repeated misquote of this one item (NO GRIND) is stated FAR too many times in FAR too many posts as rallying cry of POed players and it is factually incorrect.

I haven’t played in over two months. The lack of something new keeps me from spending time in Tyra.

I’ve also voiced my displeasure buy not dropping any funds into the gem shop. That’s not the ‘content’ I wish to encourage.

This new patch—-POS——gives me a reason to quit playing until the festival is over.

I play every day. I lead a great guild that’s constantly growing. We have guild events every other day. Always find something to do.

The game is great if you want to see your character growing but not if you want to be the hero.

Theres not much left if you play pve only and you don’t do dungeons, fractals. Its either champ trains or slash some foes on your own or do overfilled world events to be part of something big rather then beeing big. Ok there is ascended gear which you can grind for or you can grind for the materials for your crafting pleasure. Or you can work on map completion and thats basically it. And once you’ve done the jumping puzzles and/or dungeions why work them again?

So if you want to be the hero you can roll a guardian or a ranger and farm champs alone so feel strong at least like a hero.

Amere.9607:

break between living story seasons kinda showed, that core game is “empty”. i really enjoy and like gw2, but after reaching lvl80, opening some maps you just hit the brick wall.

it’s great game for people with ‘collectors mindset’, when u can utilize all game systems to gain new “collectables” , but for me, hmm, nothing essential to go for, nothing new to see, experience or do.

saddest thing – gw2 is best mmo out there, it’s just that there nothing to do in it

This exactly.
I got bored pretty quick in this game. The break in the AP grind killed it for me.
I went back to an older MMO I used to play that has added tons of content (2 expansions) that gasp is still in the game for me to play through. GW2 is almost the same game I started with, a couple maps have changed a bit, but the content is gone (not talking features or bug-fixes because those still don’t give anything to actually do).
I just can’t bring myself to zerg-grind AP’s as new content in season 2, especially after seeing how empty the core is during thikittenus. And if anything, having to merge 20+ servers to generate the illusion of a playerbase says a lot about the core content.

First time I have ever waited for a patch just to install it and one hour later go meh, and log out.

The new crown pavilion is a grindfest with bosses that take FAR to long to kill and trash that drops nada, nothing, zilch that can be used to offset the cost of even one waypoint.

The sanctum feels similar to last year, but do the prices for the chests have to be so bloody high? And why not add a merchant that can turn my worthless dust and fragments into a few chests seeing as I have 3 mules full of the (less than useless) stuff now. For an ascended material it would most likely sell for less than 1 copper on the tp at this point, if we could sell it that is and not use it along with 14 silver to make even more useless garbage.

I digress though, I’m just gonna sit this one out until ANet realizes no reward for effort = no players to buy their stuff!

Edit: clarity

Amere.9607:

That would mean that the game would become less of a gold-grind because you can get most items in the game-word itself and running around with a zerg is not so rewarding anymore because if everybody starts to loot one type of content the value of that item will drop because it overflows on the TP.

nope just, it’s not how it works and even if you still have to deal with, minimum 2 different mindsets out there. skins aren’t expensive because they are rare, they are expensive because most of community doesn’t give a **** about skins, they just want to play the game.

and there’s abstract demand/suply “economy” for rare pink swords, when not that much ppl need them. biggest game problem is that, there no “unite” good for all players (ecto globe let’s say), that would evaluete all stuff on market…. na, market is built around hunting some rare stuff. and in the end every1 is hunting gold just to stay in touch.

so economy goes around bags and salvagalable stuff, but legendaries and precursors are flipped by ac flippers. easy as that – if there was economy based on grind and, you know, supply chains with mats and bag – precursors are just random like, you know, some1 was crafting hammers for weeks,days, years and crafted a “legendary whatever-hammer” ::)

because that’s how economy and production works gw2 tries to keep prices (+/- it does that, if ur not buing silks that is)… and in the end you have “state economy”, something that communism shouldn’t be, but became in the end. :]

Exacly how it works. If I want and specific skin or item I can not work directly for it so what is the only option? Grinding gold. And if people would not care about hem prices would be lower in fact. Not higher.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Trouble.3859:

…… I remember a few years ago when Arenanet insisted that Guild Wars 2 would be a game with no grind…..

You remember wrong. It was stated that the game would not have REQUIRED grind. No MMO can exist without some sort of progression that requires time and effort at the end game. Still, you don’t HAVE to perform the grind to obtain sufficient equipment to actually PLAY the game.

Some of the OPs statements are not untrue, but the repeated misquote of this one item (NO GRIND) is stated FAR too many times in FAR too many posts as rallying cry of POed players and it is factually incorrect.

I am pretty sure they said no grind. Anyway the term ‘required grind’ would be nonsense anyway. It’s a game nothing is required. However I would like to collect skins. That is my game-play. If I would want to do that it means grinding gold.. because of that it’s not my game-play in GW2 as I don’t like grinding gold but yeah to get those things I would be ‘required’ to get gold. Of course it’s a game so you do not have to get those skins and so are not ‘required’ to grind. And thats so for everything in a game as it’s a game.

Stark.1350:

I play every day. I lead a great guild that’s constantly growing. We have guild events every other day. Always find something to do.

What sort of stuff do you guys organise?

watch?v=KmqgRAXygDg <- this is song, i use to run dngns in gw2 you may not like it, but u can support young artists and some music sharing

Devata.6589:

Stark.1350:

I play every day. I lead a great guild that’s constantly growing. We have guild events every other day. Always find something to do.

What sort of stuff do you guys organise?

Arah nights for Dungeon Master runs. Diving Goggle runs. Mini dungeon runs. Guild pvp night. Guild WvW night. Dungeon nights. Silly things like costume brawl races or beach parties. Event nights for alts. 1v1 tournaments. No UI nights (that’s a riot). World boss nights. Guild missions every Saturday. Jumping puzzle nights. Jumping puzzle races. Guild hide n’seek. Edge of the Mists night. We’ve had a costume contest. Last day in L.A. party. Pink Day in L.A. for breast cancer awareness. Belcher’s Bluff nights. The list goes on.

Remember when it used to be okay for people who play a game to be successful in it? Right now, the only fast and reliable way to make game gold is to go to your real life boss and ask him for some overtime to buy gems and convert to gold. Which may give Anet some boost short term.
Personally I never buy gold like this. So what if I could get that shiny legendary? I would not deserve it and it would feel like cheating. And lets say next week they launch some nice armor skins….do I rush to buy more gems? I think not…
I believe that Anet really went too far with the commercialization, given how competitive the MMO market is.
Buying gold for real life cash should not exist at all. Tho this is a buy to play game, so we are willing to accept it as an alternative for the slackers and those who earn too much to care about the cash. However there has to be a way for the people who actually play the game to be successful at it too. Farming should not be a crime.
This last patch, 20th may, is a good indication of the direction this game is heading…

Stark.1350:

Devata.6589:

Stark.1350:

I play every day. I lead a great guild that’s constantly growing. We have guild events every other day. Always find something to do.

What sort of stuff do you guys organise?

Arah nights for Dungeon Master runs. Diving Goggle runs. Mini dungeon runs. Guild pvp night. Guild WvW night. Dungeon nights. Silly things like costume brawl races or beach parties. Event nights for alts. 1v1 tournaments. No UI nights (that’s a riot). World boss nights. Guild missions every Saturday. Jumping puzzle nights. Jumping puzzle races. Guild hide n’seek. Edge of the Mists night. We’ve had a costume contest. Last day in L.A. party. Pink Day in L.A. for breast cancer awareness. Belcher’s Bluff nights. The list goes on.

I think this is really important for those players that just want to continue to enjoy the game and the good social aspects of it. I am in a decent guild that always does planned stuff every Saturday evening, as well as doing spur of the moment activities during the week when there looks to be enough other guildies on. No high pressure stuff, no speed runs, no you-have-to-be-this-sort-of-build garbage….just fun, enjoyable, helpful stuff for all. Helps everyone in the guild to continue to enjoy the game for what it is….an enjoyable diversion from the reality grind.

Sounds like you run a really good guild, Stark. More power to you!

Jasper.9341:

Remember when it used to be okay for people who play a game to be successful in it? Right now, the only fast and reliable way to make game gold is to go to your real life boss and ask him for some overtime to buy gems and convert to gold. Which may give Anet some boost short term.
Personally I never buy gold like this. So what if I could get that shiny legendary? I would not deserve it and it would feel like cheating. And lets say next week they launch some nice armor skins….do I rush to buy more gems? I think not…
I believe that Anet really went too far with the commercialization, given how competitive the MMO market is.
Buying gold for real life cash should not exist at all. Tho this is a buy to play game, so we are willing to accept it as an alternative for the slackers and those who earn too much to care about the cash. However there has to be a way for the people who actually play the game to be successful at it too. Farming should not be a crime.
This last patch, 20th may, is a good indication of the direction this game is heading…

you are, in my opinion, so… mistaken about stuff, that’s it really hard to comment. there are ways to bump or vice versa gem/gold convertion. game isn’t stiff about it, even more – u can gain everything with gold and gold/playtime value changes all the time.

the game, gw2 is fair, good, cool whatever. it is amazing in all its core components, some ppl dislike asura voice acting for story, i love them – it’s like how i would like to sound when english is my ‘main’

nah, game itself is good, in my opinion – close to perfect.

but, without economy, organic demand/supply understanding and legendary system, that burries so much content in favor of grind/rng/luck..

you know, it’s just sad, game with such amazing visuals, ideas and even stuff around ‘code’ goes for ‘rng’ here’s problem

Jasper.9341:

Tho this is a buy to play game, so we are willing to accept it

Strange that you look at it that way. The way I look at it. Because this is a B2P game we should not get the F2P cash—shop focus but get an expansion every year we have to pay for if we want the content.

That is how I look at it. sadly it tunred into a cash-shop game that has the F2P negatives.

Stark.1350:

Devata.6589:

Stark.1350:

I play every day. I lead a great guild that’s constantly growing. We have guild events every other day. Always find something to do.

What sort of stuff do you guys organise?

Arah nights for Dungeon Master runs. Diving Goggle runs. Mini dungeon runs. Guild pvp night. Guild WvW night. Dungeon nights. Silly things like costume brawl races or beach parties. Event nights for alts. 1v1 tournaments. No UI nights (that’s a riot). World boss nights. Guild missions every Saturday. Jumping puzzle nights. Jumping puzzle races. Guild hide n’seek. Edge of the Mists night. We’ve had a costume contest. Last day in L.A. party. Pink Day in L.A. for breast cancer awareness. Belcher’s Bluff nights. The list goes on.

We did do more events in the pass but it has become hard getting all the people to sign up for events.. and well most can’t play at night.

Gonna try some of these out, thnx for the idea’s.

Devata.6589:

Strange that you look at it that way. The way I look at it. Because this is a B2P game we should not get the F2P cash—shop focus but get an expansion every year we have to pay for if we want the content.

That is how I look at it. sadly it tunred into a cash-shop game that has the F2P negatives.

And you look at it like that because you are completely unable to understand how much work and money an expansion would take and thus it would not be possible to survive on expansions alone.

Amere.9607:

Jasper.9341:

Remember when it used to be okay for people who play a game to be successful in it? Right now, the only fast and reliable way to make game gold is to go to your real life boss and ask him for some overtime to buy gems and convert to gold. Which may give Anet some boost short term.
Personally I never buy gold like this. So what if I could get that shiny legendary? I would not deserve it and it would feel like cheating. And lets say next week they launch some nice armor skins….do I rush to buy more gems? I think not…
I believe that Anet really went too far with the commercialization, given how competitive the MMO market is.
Buying gold for real life cash should not exist at all. Tho this is a buy to play game, so we are willing to accept it as an alternative for the slackers and those who earn too much to care about the cash. However there has to be a way for the people who actually play the game to be successful at it too. Farming should not be a crime.
This last patch, 20th may, is a good indication of the direction this game is heading…

you are, in my opinion, so… mistaken about stuff, that’s it really hard to comment. there are ways to bump or vice versa gem/gold convertion. game isn’t stiff about it, even more – u can gain everything with gold and gold/playtime value changes all the time.

the game, gw2 is fair, good, cool whatever. it is amazing in all its core components, some ppl dislike asura voice acting for story, i love them – it’s like how i would like to sound when english is my ‘main’

nah, game itself is good, in my opinion – close to perfect.

but, without economy, organic demand/supply understanding and legendary system, that burries so much content in favor of grind/rng/luck..

you know, it’s just sad, game with such amazing visuals, ideas and even stuff around ‘code’ goes for ‘rng’ here’s problem

‘rng’ is not always bad. I don’t mind that a boss has an x drop-rate for a y skin.
Problem here is that it’s all such a gold grind. You say ‘you you can get gold to buy it’. Yeah you can grind gold to get the skins you like, the mini’s you like, to level crafting, it helps you get the legendary. But direly working towards something is not possible because stuff is behind general drops or the cash-shop.

That is the whole problem, everything has become a gold-grind in favor of the cash-shop.

And is it not grinding gold then it is farming achievements against time before the end of the LS.

You know how cool the whole dye system could have been if they just had put them in the world behind specific content. Or if crafting meant you could early easy farm the mats but had to collect the recipe’s all over the world (again as specific drops). It would give people stuff to do for over a year and people would naturally be exploring the world even > lvl 80.
Then after a year an expansion for more stuff to do.

lordkrall.7241:

Devata.6589:

Strange that you look at it that way. The way I look at it. Because this is a B2P game we should not get the F2P cash—shop focus but get an expansion every year we have to pay for if we want the content.

That is how I look at it. sadly it tunred into a cash-shop game that has the F2P negatives.

And you look at it like that because you are completely unable to understand how much work and money an expansion would take and thus it would not be possible to survive on expansions alone.

Well we did see that expansion based would likely earn them more money.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/NcSoft-earnings-1Q-14/page/3#post4029793

Then there is ArenaNet’s statement that they deliver expansion-like content with the LS.

Haven’t seen much of it but that means that according to them it is in fact possible to deliver the same amount of content using the cash-shop focus that does not generate more money as pure expansions every year. Suggesting it should be possible but in your defense since ArenaNet did not deliver it might support your point.

Lastly there is GW2 that purely exists because of the success of GW1 that in fact did use expansions as there main source of income.

So you are making an interesting statements but does not seem to fit the facts as we have them.

Xenon.4537:

Actually I like the veteran loot bag idea. Think about it. Where are the vets in this game? All over the place. You couldn’t really form a solid train for them. People would spread out and hunt them down. It could potentially break the PvE zergs up. The problem with doing this is more of a concern about the economy, but lets be real. Would things really be any different? 900 people zerging 5 champs 24/7, or 900 people spread out across the game killing hundreds of vets?

You could have a train for veterans as well. I mean the same argument is true for champions as well. Champions are all over the place as well yet people focus on queensdale and frostgorge mostly. Thing is if you look at the game from a purely reward perspective there will always be that content rotation that provides the best return for the time invested its simply impossible to make all content equally rewarding and all taking exactly the same amount of effort.

Vix.6730:

Half of your list should have been included during launch. Aside from balancing and bug fixing the game is barren of new content. Re-skinning maps and buffing existing world bosses is NOT new content. Yes, some of the Living Story was fun, but it was quick and very possible to complete in two hours or less at a casual pace. And when those two hours of fun were over so was the “new” content.

Seriously can we stop this should have been included at launch whatever you want to call it. How do you determine what should have been included at launch or not? Its not like there is a set standard of what should be or what should not be at launch of any mmo. Should LFG be there at launch? yes then why do so many MMOs launch without LFG, why do some have no LFG years after they’ve launched.

Thing is its like people just want to believe Arenanet did absolutely nothing with the game since launch so they go out of their way to 1. forget all the content we got, 2. downplaying content by calling it a re-skin of other content 3. Conviniently focus on the minor stuff and ignoring the big stuff (example revamping a world boss is not new content conviniently forgetting about Karka queen and Wurm) and worst yet 4. dismiss it as shouldnt have been there at launch anyway.

And you know what even if we only get 2hrs of gameplay out of every release and its way more then that when you factor in NPC dialog, exploration, replayability etc.. but lets leave it at 2hrs like you suggest… that means 104 hrs of new gameplay a year… thats more then single player RPG blockbusters that generally advertize they offer 80hrs – 100 hrs of content if you exclude replayability.

These are games that generally take years of development to delivery those 100hrs and all that time you cannot do anything but wait. Yet with Gw2 you get 2 hrs of stuff to do every 2 weeks. However while people praise those single player rpgs development teams for providing tons of content here we bash Arenanet for essentially not doing a thing even though they’re actually doing just as well.

I am sorry if I sound a bit too harsh but people seriously, you dont like the content fine, you wish for a different type of content fine, you want it all permanent fine but please stop trying to twist things or coming up with contorted reasons to make it sound like all the content we were given never really exsited.

Galen Grey.4709:

Xenon.4537:

Actually I like the veteran loot bag idea. Think about it. Where are the vets in this game? All over the place. You couldn’t really form a solid train for them. People would spread out and hunt them down. It could potentially break the PvE zergs up. The problem with doing this is more of a concern about the economy, but lets be real. Would things really be any different? 900 people zerging 5 champs 24/7, or 900 people spread out across the game killing hundreds of vets?

You could have a train for veterans as well. I mean the same argument is true for champions as well. Champions are all over the place as well yet people focus on queensdale and frostgorge mostly. Thing is if you look at the game from a purely reward perspective there will always be that content rotation that provides the best return for the time invested its simply impossible to make all content equally rewarding and all taking exactly the same amount of effort.

No, but you could make it possible to hunt down items / rewards themselves and by that making gold not as ’ required’ to get those items as it is now. For me I don’t care that people run farm-trains I just don’t like to play that way.

Oow and I know the gold-excuse “well you can simply do the content you like and earn gold that way” what would be valid if hunting down and the rush of being able to get that item is your gameplay. However GW2 proves that’s an invalid argument.

When something does not reward enough people stop doing it so they where not doing it because they liked it but pure to grind gold. That will get boring (for most people) and so those people will leave at some point.

I stay at my point that specific rewards behind specific content is the solution (but almost to do right in GW2 because they want to sell those items in the cash-shop or at least make money out of them using the cash-shop). People can get the items they like so no need to grind gold and those who still really want to grind gold still can. Now it’s mainly general drops that make people money that they then have to use to buy the item they want simply because there is not a real other way. So if people want something they search for the most easy way to grind the gold they need for the item.

Devata.6589:

You know we talked a lot about how I find the cash-shop is bad for the game. Well here is one of your examples.

No you need specific rewarding loot in specific places. Problem is that the type of loot they should put there is the stuff they are selling in the cash-shop.

For example, the Karka can drop one specific color that does not drop any-ware else and is not in the cash-shop (but can be sold on the TP) and it can drop a mini-version of itself and it can drop a specific skin.

Now another boss drops another mini and another color another skin.

Yet another boss only drops a specific skin and so on.

Meanwhile you make sure you have less general drops and don’t have that sort of rewards in the cash-shop.

That would mean that the game would become less of a gold-grind because you can get most items in the game-word itself and running around with a zerg is not so rewarding anymore because if everybody starts to loot one type of content the value of that item will drop because it overflows on the TP.

Besides gold would then also be not as important to get anything as it is now.

In addition make mats farmable as well and gone is your vicious circle.

Yes I know how you like to fit the cash shop is bad into every argument… not sure how cash shop is bad fits into champion trains or killing veterans but anyhow…

what you’re asking for is already there. Say for example the Crystal Guardian skin. You’re not going to get that from a champion drop in queensdale it only drops from branded champions but guess what because it can be sold on TP people will farm what makes them money fastest and just buy it rather then go farming it directly. Thats just one example, every type of champion has its own special skins that drop only from that type. Yet it didnt incentivize people to spread out.

It might work if you make them untradable but then that creates other issues and destroys what is at the core of Gw2 which ofcourse is you’re free to decide that kind of content you like to play. If they were untradable and I wanted say the scepter of the highborn I would be forced to go kill champions from the animal kingdom but thing is I dont enjoy farming champions I enjoy doing events, jumping puzzles etc… With them tradable I can do that, do my events, do my jumping puzzles earn my 2.5g and buy it.

I dont know, I Cant judge of course. Perhaps people who farm champion trains all day are having a lot of fun and perfectly happy with how stuff is, I just dont know but I dont think they’re going to change what they’re doing unless the game forces them to (making stuff untradable and such) and thats really worst then the status quo.

Galen Grey.4709:

Vix.6730:

Half of your list should have been included during launch. Aside from balancing and bug fixing the game is barren of new content. Re-skinning maps and buffing existing world bosses is NOT new content. Yes, some of the Living Story was fun, but it was quick and very possible to complete in two hours or less at a casual pace. And when those two hours of fun were over so was the “new” content.

Seriously can we stop this should have been included at launch whatever you want to call it. How do you determine what should have been included at launch or not? Its not like there is a set standard of what should be or what should not be at launch of any mmo. Should LFG be there at launch? yes then why do so many MMOs launch without LFG, why do some have no LFG years after they’ve launched.

Thing is its like people just want to believe Arenanet did absolutely nothing with the game since launch so they go out of their way to 1. forget all the content we got, 2. downplaying content by calling it a re-skin of other content 3. Conviniently focus on the minor stuff and ignoring the big stuff (example revamping a world boss is not new content conviniently forgetting about Karka queen and Wurm) and worst yet 4. dismiss it as shouldnt have been there at launch anyway.

And you know what even if we only get 2hrs of gameplay out of every release and its way more then that when you factor in NPC dialog, exploration, replayability etc.. but lets leave it at 2hrs like you suggest… that means 104 hrs of new gameplay a year… thats more then single player RPG blockbusters that generally advertize they offer 80hrs – 100 hrs of content if you exclude replayability.

These are games that generally take years of development to delivery those 100hrs and all that time you cannot do anything but wait. Yet with Gw2 you get 2 hrs of stuff to do every 2 weeks. However while people praise those single player rpgs development teams for providing tons of content here we bash Arenanet for essentially not doing a thing even though they’re actually doing just as well.

I am sorry if I sound a bit too harsh but people seriously, you dont like the content fine, you wish for a different type of content fine, you want it all permanent fine but please stop trying to twist things or coming up with contorted reasons to make it sound like all the content we were given never really exsited.

Not to argue about the amount of content (I do think an expansion would have likely delivered more content). My personal problem with the LS is that it’s all a temporary rush against time to do your temporary available activities to get your temporary available achievements to get your temporary available rewards. And with the theme of the LS there are the temporary available cash-shop items. All of it giving you the feeling of do it now our lose out forever. That is my main problem of how the LS itself works.

My other problem with the game is how the cash-shop focus does impacts the game in a negative way and the LS is related to that as it fits with there approach of making money that way in stead of expansion.

So really for me it’s not just about the amount of content. Even if the LS would deliver everything an expansion would that would not solve the problem. As long as it’s a rush against time and we keep having the cash-shop influence on the game I will dislike that.

Still I do think there are indeed thinks that should have been in the game during launch like a LastOnline function for example.

A good expansion can easily keep me happy for a year. The LS could make keep me busy but not keep me happy.

Btw a year has 52 weeks, content every two weeks makes that 26 and they did have a few breaks so lets say 23 weeks of LS patches, times 2 hours is 46. Not really important but I don’t understand how you get 100 hours.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

You know we talked a lot about how I find the cash-shop is bad for the game. Well here is one of your examples.

No you need specific rewarding loot in specific places. Problem is that the type of loot they should put there is the stuff they are selling in the cash-shop.

For example, the Karka can drop one specific color that does not drop any-ware else and is not in the cash-shop (but can be sold on the TP) and it can drop a mini-version of itself and it can drop a specific skin.

Now another boss drops another mini and another color another skin.

Yet another boss only drops a specific skin and so on.

Meanwhile you make sure you have less general drops and don’t have that sort of rewards in the cash-shop.

That would mean that the game would become less of a gold-grind because you can get most items in the game-word itself and running around with a zerg is not so rewarding anymore because if everybody starts to loot one type of content the value of that item will drop because it overflows on the TP.

Besides gold would then also be not as important to get anything as it is now.

In addition make mats farmable as well and gone is your vicious circle.

Yes I know how you like to fit the cash shop is bad into every argument… not sure how cash shop is bad fits into champion trains or killing veterans but anyhow…

what you’re asking for is already there. Say for example the Crystal Guardian skin. You’re not going to get that from a champion drop in queensdale it only drops from branded champions but guess what because it can be sold on TP people will farm what makes them money fastest and just buy it rather then go farming it directly. Thats just one example, every type of champion has its own special skins that drop only from that type. Yet it didnt incentivize people to spread out.

It might work if you make them untradable but then that creates other issues and destroys what is at the core of Gw2 which ofcourse is you’re free to decide that kind of content you like to play. If they were untradable and I wanted say the scepter of the highborn I would be forced to go kill champions from the animal kingdom but thing is I dont enjoy farming champions I enjoy doing events, jumping puzzles etc… With them tradable I can do that, do my events, do my jumping puzzles earn my 2.5g and buy it.

I dont know, I Cant judge of course. Perhaps people who farm champion trains all day are having a lot of fun and perfectly happy with how stuff is, I just dont know but I dont think they’re going to change what they’re doing unless the game forces them to (making stuff untradable and such) and thats really worst then the status quo.

I don’t fit it into everything, I do mainly go to threads about the subject, so you will see it coming back a lot in my comments that’s true. (I also dislike invisible walls but don’t say that’s cash-shop related) I do say one of the main things is the gold-grind that comes with the cahs-shop because you can’t get specific rewards (many are in the cash-shop or require gold what is also good for the cash-shop because of gems to gold). And you know that as we did talk a lot about that.

People mainly do champion trains to grind gold.

So you really can’t see the connection between the two? Sure you can.

There are some skins behind specific content but mostly it’s a general drop.

Your Crystal Guardian is not a good example because it’s not a specific drop from specific content. It’s a general drop that comes in boxes that are dropped by multiple different champions. That means people will farm it and / or are more likely to simply get it without really going for it. It’s in fact not even really an item you can go for. Sure you can focus on that type of champions but the drop-change is extremely low but because it’s a general drop the change of somebody who is not interested in it getting it is pretty high meaning there will be enough on the TP meaning grinding for gold yourself is the faster option.

If it would be an item that dropped from one type of mob in one area then it would be a specific drop, this is not.

I think there is a rare drop for an item in the latest added dungeon path. That would be a good example. Crystal Guardian is an example of how it should NOT be.

I don’t think most should be account-bound because I don’t mind if people want to sell them / grind gold for them. The problem is that if you want such an item it’s now really the own viable option.

Devata.6589:

Jasper.9341:

Tho this is a buy to play game, so we are willing to accept it

Strange that you look at it that way. The way I look at it. Because this is a B2P game we should not get the F2P cash—shop focus but get an expansion every year we have to pay for if we want the content.

That is how I look at it. sadly it tunred into a cash-shop game that has the F2P negatives.

btw, I meant to ask this but never got around to it. Every single B2P game has a cash shop what makes you say B2P games should not have a cash shop? Now a days even P2P games have cash shops! But save for Gw1 at the beginning which technically isnt even an MMO every single B2P to ever come out had a cash shop!

So I have to ask, whats the bases of your statement?

Devata.6589:

Not to argue about the amount of content (I do think an expansion would have likely delivered more content).

How so ? do you think that by doing the LS and sticking to a 2 week schedule some developers were more relaxed and thus less productive then if they had to deliver content in 1 – 2 years time? Cause i have a feeling the oppsite is likely true. People keep comparing this to gw1 and thus expecting an expansion to be delivered in the same 6 month time frame which isnt realistic. Gw2 content requires a lot more work, just compare LA in Gw1 and Gw2, in Gw2 not only every building / structure contains more detailed topoplogy and more textures and added detail but there is also a ton more models. Same goes for the open world, terrain is more complex, more models all around, outposts arent simply a few houses together but a whole lot more work etc.. Even back in the Gw1 days they said releasing expansions every 6 months was too hard. I am sure you know as well as I if not even more that in 10 years processing power shot up and that means that we now expect a much higher graphical fidelity in our games which in turn doesnt simply mean program your engine to display 10 year old stuff nicer but things now have to have very fine detail and tons of secondary movement and stuff and thats all stuff that takes a ton more time to create.

Simply speaking if they had done no living story an expansion would still have taken 1 – 2 years to create most likely and no employee remained idle in the meantime so yes the big expensive stuff to create like zones probably took longer to create then if there was no living story but in the meantime we got stuff to enjoy! Provided this year they release new zones and all the good stuff what Anet did is absolutely ideal in my opinion and I am confident people will be more open to LS too because lets face it no one like to wait. even 1-2 month break created stress imagine 1 – 2 year breaks. with minor repeatable stuff in between. Nightmare!

As for the temporary content, I know your opinion on that and I respect that so nothing to add to that.

Devata.6589:

Btw a year has 52 weeks, content every two weeks makes that 26 and they did have a few breaks so lets say 23 weeks of LS patches, times 2 hours is 46. Not really important but I don’t understand how you get 100 hours.

[/quote]

you’re right, I made a mistake forgot to divide the 52 weeks by 2, my mistake.

anyhow the 100hrs is still probably closer to the truth because 2 hrs is way too low.

take this update for example

15 mins for the intro
15 mins wait between events in labyrinth and 15 mins for each labyrinth activity that’s 1hr

30mins – 1hr to finish the champion blizz
another 1hr to go through the whole gauntlet at least (lot more if you want to beat liadri and tons more if you want to do it with gambits)

finding the sky crystals and the master sky crystals… easily another 2hrs

15 mins for the sprint and 15 for the aspect arena

5 mins for each of the events that can be triggered in the cliffs area so theres another 30 mins or so.

thats about 6 hrs of content if you do it just once

never mind stopping to talk with npcs, exploring a bit and waiting for events to start or your turn in the arena. But anyhow yes I made a mistake in my calculation you’re right.

lordkrall.7241:

They have never claimed there would be no grind.
They have claimed there would be no REQUIRED grind. Which is still very much true. You can experience every single piece of content in the game without ever grinding anything.

They have added rather much real content since release, but for some reason people seems to ignore that.
But I suppose Fractals, new dungeon path, Southsun and Edge of the Mists (to name a few) doesn’t count for some reason?

Everyone knows you as a fanboy already, no need to prove it.

Oh and… this part here is a downright contradiction.

lordkrall.7241:

You can’t really blame the game for a bunch of elitists either. It is the players, not the game that creates elitism. And that will happen in every game that require some sort of skill and/or gear.

- First you say: it’s the players who create elitism
- Then you say: it’s something that happens in every game that requires some sort of skill/gear
- So in essence, what’s wrong is that this game has grindy gear tiers and it’s the game that is bad, not the players.

Devata.6589:

Your Crystal Guardian is not a good example because it’s not a specific drop from specific content. It’s a general drop that comes in boxes that are dropped by multiple different champions. That means people will farm it and / or are more likely to simply get it without really going for it. It’s in fact not even really an item you can go for. Sure you can focus on that type of champions but the drop-change is extremely low but because it’s a general drop the change of somebody who is not interested in it getting it is pretty high meaning there will be enough on the TP meaning grinding for gold yourself is the faster option.

Oh come on, of course its a reward to specific content, sure you dont have to go after a specific champion true but you have to go after a specific class of champions which can only be found in a specific area. If it was one champion it wouldnt change the fact people do go and farm the item directly.

as for the low drop rate, if it is so low and people dont farm them how exactly are there 112 on sale with a demand of 301 and in 1 day according to gw2spidy it went from 78 listings up to 103. Not only that but while farming for it you’re still earning gold so if people like you think want to farm specific content for their rewards why dont they do it at the champion that drops the item they want, they’ll get a chance at getting the drop directly or if it doesnt drop by the time they earn the gold for it they can buy it directly.

Also I dont get how you feel its a very low drop rate if you farm specifically for it but at the same time someone who happens to do an event with a champion who can drop it has a high chance of getting it.

I hope you realize there are just 6 champions in all of tyria that could drop this. 4 are in 1 zone and 2 in another.

Devata.6589:

If it would be an item that dropped from one type of mob in one area then it would be a specific drop, this is not.

and wouldnt that make it worst rather then better? I mean if in 1 zone you get 4 chances arent you more likely to try and farm it then if you only get 1 chance per zone?

Devata.6589:

I don’t think most should be account-bound because I don’t mind if people want to sell them / grind gold for them. The problem is that if you want such an item it’s now really the own viable option.

Which brings us back to rarity. if you only need to kill a champion a couple of times to get an item you want would that skin be worth anything more then your regular greens and blues? would it really do anything to longevity of the game? would it make you play any more content? because in my opinion it would make things a lot worst. With such a drop rate these skins would sell for a couple of silver as people try to cut each other out and these drops would not be valuable anymore no one would care about farming it directly for the one champion that drops it they’d just pay for it with a single level 80 dynamic event.

I feel you’re understimating how important the element of rarity is and like we discussed before you cannot have rarity if you dont employ either a time constraint or very low drop rates! well or extremely high difficulty which they cannot really do as it conflicts with the game’s core concepts.

You can beat yourself to death with a hammer. This does not mean you should, or that the hammer manufacturer intended for you to do this. Free will can be tricky.

I’ve played since headstart weekend pretty regularly, at least for a casual. I’ve capped 5 characters, done map completion on one, finished the Personal Story, done most of the achievements for the Living Story content … I could go on but I’ve done everything in this game that interests me and tried everything else the game has to offer. I’m not pinning my current disappointed state on losing the Champ Train. It’s just the continuous agressive removal of things to do by the devs … and for what?

I can’t farm too much because I hit Diminishing Returns. I can’t go crazy with doing Achievements because there’s a cap on how many. I can’t play Living Story content past the designated time that it’s live. I can only build so many pieces of ascended items a day. Loot scaling, I can’t this and I can’t that – the list goes on. Why has a game that showed so much promise and innovation at release done nothing but seek ways to penalize their players with one Control Freak thing after another? If botting is a problem, why does the active player base suffer the consequences by DR? Some people like to farm to make gold – that’s their play style. DR is the same as telling a map completion player he can only do 5 hearts a day, unlock 3 waypoints and do 2 vistas – then he’s done. DR is like telling a TP junkie he can only make 10 transactions a day. DR is like telling WvW players that they can only get 50 player kills a day. PvP players get 5 matches a day. Living Story players get 60 minutes in the instance, “starting … now! Go go go!” You can easily find ways to limit everyone’s chosen play style.

with a game that is the size that it is, area-wise, and with not much lasting new content since launch (as in, if I log in today versus headstart weekend, what new content is there, current Four Winds content aside – and I’m talking new, playable content, not LA’s destruction) why has the game taken to self-patrolling players who are eking out ways to have fun?

It’s fine to step up on the pulpit and shout down players like me who are dissatisfied with this constant active restriction of ways to play the game, to tell me that I should take my dark cloud and go elsewhere – very cavalier and it probably makes you feel better for saying it and defending the game’s honor. But that’s a dangerous attitude to take. Any product, that ceases to find ways to improve and instead continues to decrease its functionality on a regular basis will become obsolete, replaced with a product that is superior. Guild Wars 2 was superior when it released. Now it’s just another game with an obscene number of Dev inflicted restrictions.

Yeah, I’m going to move on now. And before the “Don’t let the door hit my fanny on the way out” calls come, take a moment to think about what you’re really defending – how would you feel if the ways you’ve played for 2 years is suddenly time gated or removed completely (again, I’m not talking Champ Train, I’m talking about ALL the restrictions imposed over the last 2 years)? Thanks for the run GW – I still love this game and will likely check in from time to time.

lordkrall.7241:

They have never claimed there would be no grind.
They have claimed there would be no REQUIRED grind. Which is still very much true. You can experience every single piece of content in the game without ever grinding anything.

The only thing that does not require grind is getting to max level… After that you can choose where to grind for gold or achievements.

Trouble.3859:

lordkrall.7241:

They have never claimed there would be no grind.
They have claimed there would be no REQUIRED grind. Which is still very much true. You can experience every single piece of content in the game without ever grinding anything.

They have added rather much real content since release, but for some reason people seems to ignore that.
But I suppose Fractals, new dungeon path, Southsun and Edge of the Mists (to name a few) doesn’t count for some reason?

You can’t really blame the game for a bunch of elitists either. It is the players, not the game that creates elitism. And that will happen in every game that require some sort of skill and/or gear.

Fractals, a new dungeon path, a few pvp maps, and a new area that is always empty ? In 2 years ? I wouldn’t say that’s a lot. And as for the grind, I really think that everything in this game requires some form of grinding.

All I saw since launch was some temporary content that you could pretty much do in 2 hours. And now that the LS is over, nothing is really different…

There is no real reason to log in to the game once you’ve reached level cap except maybe PvP and even that gets boring after a while… I know you’re gonna say that I just like to complain and that if I don’t like the game I shouldn’t play, but the truth is that I like the game and I want to keep playing but I don’t have an incentive to actually play…

Just kitten kittening fanboy, you destroying your own game with support the kitten they do and don’t do !

Aktarus.5612:

Trouble.3859:

lordkrall.7241:

They have never claimed there would be no grind.
They have claimed there would be no REQUIRED grind. Which is still very much true. You can experience every single piece of content in the game without ever grinding anything.

They have added rather much real content since release, but for some reason people seems to ignore that.
But I suppose Fractals, new dungeon path, Southsun and Edge of the Mists (to name a few) doesn’t count for some reason?

You can’t really blame the game for a bunch of elitists either. It is the players, not the game that creates elitism. And that will happen in every game that require some sort of skill and/or gear.

Fractals, a new dungeon path, a few pvp maps, and a new area that is always empty ? In 2 years ? I wouldn’t say that’s a lot. And as for the grind, I really think that everything in this game requires some form of grinding.

All I saw since launch was some temporary content that you could pretty much do in 2 hours. And now that the LS is over, nothing is really different…

There is no real reason to log in to the game once you’ve reached level cap except maybe PvP and even that gets boring after a while… I know you’re gonna say that I just like to complain and that if I don’t like the game I shouldn’t play, but the truth is that I like the game and I want to keep playing but I don’t have an incentive to actually play…

Just kitten kittening fanboy, you destroying your own game with support the kitten they do and don’t do !

So in your opinion people who love the game as is should agree with changes that make the game worst for them? what are you saying exactly?

HiddenNick.7206:

lordkrall.7241:

They have never claimed there would be no grind.
They have claimed there would be no REQUIRED grind. Which is still very much true. You can experience every single piece of content in the game without ever grinding anything.

The only thing that does not require grind is getting to max level… After that you can choose where to grind for gold or achievements.

Or just play the content you enjoy and not rush to get rewards as quickly as possible.

Just think about it… you said you need gold and/or achievements. What possible content can you play that doesnt reward one and/or the other?

Maxite.6102:

You can beat yourself to death with a hammer. This does not mean you should, or that the hammer manufacturer intended for you to do this. Free will can be tricky.

Great way to look at it. Won’t stop the people with bloodied heads from complaining about their defective hammers unfortunately.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Jasper.9341:

Tho this is a buy to play game, so we are willing to accept it

Strange that you look at it that way. The way I look at it. Because this is a B2P game we should not get the F2P cash—shop focus but get an expansion every year we have to pay for if we want the content.

That is how I look at it. sadly it tunred into a cash-shop game that has the F2P negatives.

btw, I meant to ask this but never got around to it. Every single B2P game has a cash shop what makes you say B2P games should not have a cash shop? Now a days even P2P games have cash shops! But save for Gw1 at the beginning which technically isnt even an MMO every single B2P to ever come out had a cash shop!

So I have to ask, whats the bases of your statement?

If you pay good attention I mainly (sometimes I talk about a cash-shop focus. I am fine with a cash-shop if it sells only out-of-game items / services. Like changing your name, a full make-over kit, race-changer that sort of stuff. I could even be ok with a vip-service if it only gave out-of game things (Like beta access).

It’s the focus that is the problem. And while you could say GW1 was not a true MMO because it had all instances you can say the same about GW2 with the difference that in GW1 only the city was ‘public’ and in GW2 it’s per map but also not a true open world. That however does not change much for the feasibility to use a true B2P model so without a cash-shop focus.

Now a days even P2P games have cash-shops indeed yeah. That does not mean it’s needed or good, it means companies will try anything to get as much money as they can (what I do understand) and especially MMO’s are seen as moneymakers and so sadly they also get more and more purely treated as that.

That does not mean the companies and there so called smart business people know what there doing. No this is not me telling I am smarter as them, this is me pointing out some facts. After WoW got released many companies tried to copy the income. All creating sub-based games. What did is result in so far? That over the last 10 years (all after WoW) they where forced to go F2P or even got closed down. So just because something is the standard or just because something is done a lot does not mean it works or it is the best. They do it because they think it’s the best way to get the highest income and even if that’s true then I personally are also looking at the game from a game and quality viewpoint.. you know being the customer and stuff.

Amere.9607:

Xenon.4537:

Amere.9607:

saddest thing – gw2 is best mmo out there, it’s just that there nothing to do in it

There’s plenty to do in it, until you’ve done all of it. Same goes for any game.

yes, but it’s a mmo? or not? i said nothing bad about gw2, just that for me(and i like this game) there’s nothing to do i don’t like AP, i don’t like collecting i want just to level and play my power fantasy game. gw2 is about nice skins and teddy bears and gimmicky game mechanics for dungeons and fractals, it’s even more <em>gimmicky</em> obscure with group content.. but ok, i’m not trolling, i’m not blaming or hating. just saying – for someone without collectors mindest game is kinda empty(mmo).

I just wanted to clarify that “There is nothing to do” is inaccurate. There’s tons to do. Hundreds of hours of stuff. But yes, once you finish it, there’s nothing left.

I suppose worst case scenario someone without a “collector mindset” might buy a bunch of gems, convert them to gold, craft straight to 80 in less than 1 hour, buy more gems, convert to gold, buy full set of exotics (or better yet all the mats for ascended), deck their character out in gear and be done with this game in one day. However this would cost them hundreds of real dollars and defeat the entire purpose of playing a video game in the first place.

I would argue that the same person spending nothing for gems (only buying the base game for $50 or w/e it is now) would take upwards of 100 hours to level to 80 (for the first time) and progress to at least full exotic gear through temple vendors, dungeons, and/or crafting. This is assuming he or she at least stops by sPvP and WvW to see what it’s like for 10 or 20 minutes each. You can add many more hours if they find they enjoy those contents.

tl;dr – $50 for ~100+ hours of gameplay is a pretty good deal imo. Collecting skins doesn’t even factor in to that.

P.S. I’m not addressing your guy’s issues with endgame, just the assertion that there is nothing to do in the game, which suggests that you got nothing in return for your $50, which is a blatant misconception.

Stark.1350:

Devata.6589:

Stark.1350:

I play every day. I lead a great guild that’s constantly growing. We have guild events every other day. Always find something to do.

What sort of stuff do you guys organise?

Arah nights for Dungeon Master runs. Diving Goggle runs. Mini dungeon runs. Guild pvp night. Guild WvW night. Dungeon nights. Silly things like costume brawl races or beach parties. Event nights for alts. 1v1 tournaments. No UI nights (that’s a riot). World boss nights. Guild missions every Saturday. Jumping puzzle nights. Jumping puzzle races. Guild hide n’seek. Edge of the Mists night. We’ve had a costume contest. Last day in L.A. party. Pink Day in L.A. for breast cancer awareness. Belcher’s Bluff nights. The list goes on.

I understand that’s all cool and everything but GW2 is trending towards being a social game with some “interesting” PvE/PvP tack ons and occasional events, yet missing a lot of those important “social features.”

I don’t really play this “game” anymore… I just drop in to chat with the guildies but I don’t want to strain myself (and time) trying to figure things I could do for myself only. There’s plenty to do with people but not much for the individual…

Edit: Thought I should highlight this, individual goals are very shallow in this game.