Guild Wars 2

Ah, again with this horrid misinterpretation of their manifesto.

I don’t like that they took away almost every champion from QD, but I can see why they did it. There was a bunch of controversy and silly arguments whenever someone killed a champion early and whatnot.

Also, Frostgorge Sound’s train is still up and running, so everyone can still farm without any major problems.

I think it’s high time Anet got back to 5-man content. Combat was originally designed around 5-man, and it’s the only time you ever press more than 11111111111.

Xenon.4537:

I think it’s high time Anet got back to 5-man content. Combat was originally designed around 5-man, and it’s the only time you ever press more than 11111111111.

Oddly, I never press the one key in sequence like that. I use all my skills, when the situation calls for it, in all game modes. I’ll admit to disliking certain weapons for which the 1 key does most of the damage, but that’s because the other (situational) skills are rarely called for. Maybe we’re talking about the same thing?

I have a friend who only does PvP.
My guildie likes WvW scouting.
I’ve met people who live off of dungeons
Met some really interesting people who prefer casual RP
I’m an explorer, so I go travel the wide world.

We…all play our own way…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You must be kidding…

After they introduced the grindiest grinds ever in a western AAA MMO (noone likes to grind they said), vertical progression (even casuals should have BiS they said), most of the events are watered down to press 1, 1 and 1 again (boring they said), you still think they would give a kitten about what they said in the past?

That is a lot of faith you got there.

Perhaps you should gain some experience/knowledge by playing other MMO’s than just this one. You would see that all of them have a grind and GW2’s pales in comparison to some of them.

Ronah, though your stance is valid – I can’t help but feel that it falls flat, especially with its over use of late.

Eventually measures MUST be taken to fix problems and/or recreate systems that need it. If we always went with letting players play the way they want, regardless of the impact it has, the game would be a very sad place indeed. Try to imagine as many of the exploits that have come and gone, and some that are still here today, that people actually enjoyed doing. Where would we be if we let those players continue to play the way they wanted to?

Granted that’s an extreme example. However I still believe in my heart that ArenaNet is doing what they can to keep Guild Wars 2 balanced, fun, and playable. Now I’m no white knight for them, I actively oppose many of their recent “updates”, but I still have some faith.

ArenaNet developers are human. They make mistakes, as we all do. They’re not out there playing some twisted version of ‘Whack-a-Mole’ with a “nerf hammer” just for the hell of it, just to ruin people’s fun.

Ayrilana.1396:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You must be kidding…

After they introduced the grindiest grinds ever in a western AAA MMO (noone likes to grind they said), vertical progression (even casuals should have BiS they said), most of the events are watered down to press 1, 1 and 1 again (boring they said), you still think they would give a kitten about what they said in the past?

That is a lot of faith you got there.

Perhaps you should gain some experience/knowledge by playing other MMO’s than just this one. You would see that all of them have a grind and GW2’s pales in comparison to some of them.

Asheron’s Call 2
Anarchy Online
Horizons
WoW
LotRO
DCU
Aion
STO
Defiance
AoC
Planetside
.
.
.

Just to name some of the more well known ones I played to max level (besides Anarchy online). Most of them AAA at start, and the only one that comes even close to the ascended grind is Aion at release.

For everyone on the same power level at eighty and advertised as non grindy game, just this combination is a sarcastic statement since ascended items were introduced.

I don’t know why people would call it a misinterpration of the manifesto though, as ANet themselves have stated that they stopped following it…

This stuff really is quite ironic, considering it’s coming from the same people who would complain their heads off if someone who was “playing how they want to play” happened to kill a champion “out of order” in the zone.

“Play how you want to play, unless it gets in my way; then you’re a terrible person who doesn’t play the right way.”

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You must be kidding…

After they introduced the grindiest grinds ever in a western AAA MMO (noone likes to grind they said), vertical progression (even casuals should have BiS they said), most of the events are watered down to press 1, 1 and 1 again (boring they said), you still think they would give a kitten about what they said in the past?

That is a lot of faith you got there.

If you think this game is the grindiest in western AAA MMO’s, you have probably not played many western AAA MMO’s.

Edit: Just saw your second post.
I see your previous experience and raise you two years in EVE Online.
Two years down and nowhere near the skills I needed to play how I wanted.

“Play the way you want,” was not ever intended to be an absolute . It never could be. It seems pretty obviously to have meant, “play the way you want within the boundaries of the game as implemented according to the perception of the developers regarding what is best for the game.”

This was fairly readily tested right from the beginning. Could you skip leveling if you wanted to only play max level dungeons? Could you use spears on land? Could you play as a warrior using a mesmer’s staff?

No game is going to be able to accept every possible player desire of how they want to play at a given moment.

I thought “play the way you want” just meant that there were multiple ways to get what you want. Want to level in WvW? Go for it! Want to grind out mats for your Legendary? You sure can! Prefer to just buy them off the TP? That’s valid too!

The idea was to give us options and freedom and multiple paths.

It was not to say that every option is allowed. Or encouraged. Or profitable. Or balanced.

timmyf.1490:

I thought “play the way you want” just meant that there were multiple ways to get what you want. Want to level in WvW? Go for it! Want to grind out mats for your Legendary? You sure can! Prefer to just buy them off the TP? That’s valid too!

The idea was to give us options and freedom and multiple paths.

It was not to say that every option is allowed. Or encouraged. Or profitable. Or balanced.

This expresses the concept much better than I did above.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Most of them AAA at start, and the only one that comes even close to the ascended grind is Aion at release.

I quit playing some of the games you listed because simply leveling was a dull grind.

Never having sought after ascended gear, I have never experienced anything that could be called a grind in GW2.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You must be kidding…

After they introduced the grindiest grinds ever in a western AAA MMO (noone likes to grind they said), vertical progression (even casuals should have BiS they said), most of the events are watered down to press 1, 1 and 1 again (boring they said), you still think they would give a kitten about what they said in the past?

That is a lot of faith you got there.

Perhaps you should gain some experience/knowledge by playing other MMO’s than just this one. You would see that all of them have a grind and GW2’s pales in comparison to some of them.

Asheron’s Call 2
Anarchy Online
Horizons
WoW
LotRO
DCU
Aion
STO
Defiance
AoC
.
.
.

Just to name some of the more well known ones I played to max level (besides Anarchy online). Most of them AAA at start, and the only one that comes even close to the ascended grind is Aion at release.

For everyone on the same power level at eighty and advertised as non grindy game, just this combination is a sarcastic statement since ascended items were introduced.

I don’t know why people would call it a misinterpration of the manifesto though, as ANet themselves have stated that they stopped following it…

Played some of these too, and you are full of it. Ascended, for one thing, isn’t even required. But try doing a T10 WoW raid in T2 armor and see how well it goes. We’ll wait. But if you actually played these games then you know what you’re spewing and doing it anyway. Can’t really reason when its pouting.

viralthefrog.6130:

If you think this game is the grindiest in western AAA MMO’s, you have probably not played many western AAA MMO’s.

Edit: Just saw your second post.
I see your previous experience and raise you two years in EVE Online.
Two years down and nowhere near the skills I needed to play how I wanted.

You mean you found a game that is grindier than GW2, and think that I am impressed?

EVE Online is a sandbox game, with a fully player controlled economy and universe. And it is surely not designed around one player being the hero.
Comparing this to the GW2 theme park, where everyone is second in command after Trahearne is a bit of out of place.

And please show me, where EVE Online was ever advertised as not being grindy, thx.

Maxite.6102:

Played some of these too, and you are full of it. Ascended, for one thing, isn’t even required. But try doing a T10 WoW raid in T2 armor and see how well it goes. We’ll wait. But if you actually played these games then you know what you’re spewing and doing it anyway. Can’t really reason when its pouting.

Sure, T10 armor was also introduced in the first year of the other game. And any crap item at cap is better than T2 by now (actually since the first expansion), by alot. Your point?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

viralthefrog.6130:

If you think this game is the grindiest in western AAA MMO’s, you have probably not played many western AAA MMO’s.

Edit: Just saw your second post.
I see your previous experience and raise you two years in EVE Online.
Two years down and nowhere near the skills I needed to play how I wanted.

You mean you found a game that is grindier than GW2, and think that I am impressed?

EVE Online is a sandbox game, with a fully player controlled economy and universe. And it is surely not designed around one player being the hero.
Comparing this to the GW2 theme park, where everyone is second in command after Trahearne is a bit of out of place.

And please show me, where EVE Online was ever advertised as not being grindy, thx.

It seems that you’re miffed that I pointed out a great example of a game that is grindier than GW2.

I’ve never been interested in the ascended “grind”, but after researching the exact process for the ascended grind, and hearing personal testimony from numerous guild mates, I have no doubt in my mind that GW2 is nowhere near the grindiest of all western AAA MMO’s.

I played WoW (vanilla to WotLK, and a month of Cataclysm), EVE, SWG (with a Jedi during permadeath era), WoW, RIFT, RO (not western, but still much grindier), RuneScape, and a few others that escape me at the time.

Every single one of those are so much more of a grind than GW2 that I cannot even begin to comprehend how someone could feel that GW2 is the grindiest game out.

Not trying to “impress” you. Just pointing out that there are plenty of games that are much more of a grind.

Maxite.6102:

Played some of these too, and you are full of it. Ascended, for one thing, isn’t even required. But try doing a T10 WoW raid in T2 armor and see how well it goes. We’ll wait. But if you actually played these games then you know what you’re spewing and doing it anyway. Can’t really reason when its pouting.

He didn’t claim that Ascended was required. He made no comment about what tier of gear is needed for what tier of raid. Did you accidentally respond to the wrong post ? I ask because your post has almost nothing to do with, and certainly is not a counter to, anything he said.

As to the 2 years in Eve without getting desired skills comment:

I am looking at years, potentially decades, to get my character back to where he was, with BiS gear for every weapon and multiple builds, a few months after launch….so that I can play the way I want (which does not include crafting).

There is one thing what I can say from this game:

“Many cakes are beautiful, but they are rotten inside. " What ever ArenaNet is trying to do, this game will stay rotten.

ArenaNet says that they are acting name of equality and do things in this game equally for everyone. In name of equality, ArenaNet should change all champions in all areas to the veterans. Including dungeons, wvw and pve. Because it is better to take happiness off from everybody than one player type, just because of name of equality.

And because they don’t like zerging they should in fact take off all the group events and all those activities what supports group playing (possible zerging). WvW is zerging place too, and because of Megaservers, WvW has lost it’s meaning.

ArenaNet should get rid off Achievement Point system too, it is not supporting equality either.

Yes, in name of equality they have lost that thin red guideline what they had in the start of the game. That guideline was: “We are making a game, what you can play as you want, and have fun in it.”

Just pointing this out: Manifestos are written by gamers. Games are published by corporate suit-wearers in tall buildings.

When the question “do we follow the manifesto or make the profitable call?” arises who do you think gets to answer that question?

The funny thing is, that people start to defend the grind in GW2 with games they think that are even grindier.

This game was heavily advertised for not being grindy and casuals having BiS items.

But to get anything nice in this game, including BiS, you have to mindlessly grind the same content to death.

Other games give you a new grind from time to time, and at the end of the grind you get a reward, a carrot on the stick as motivation, they don’t even hide it.

GW2 wanted to be different, now we have the same ol’ same grind as in all other games, with worse rewards. Impressive.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

…And please show me, where EVE Online was ever advertised as not being grindy, thx….

One thing, though. Nothing I remember reading before the game release promised absolutely no grind. And actually, I distinctively remember reading an interview pre-release saying that there will be plenty of things that will require a big grind to get if you wanted to. The big thing I do remember reading was that there was no required grind before you got to the fun part of the game.

Using WoW as an example (that is the game MMO I’ve played for the longest time so far)… at least back when I was playing, if I wanted to go to a tier 1 raid (and not be carried), I had no choice but to grind heroic dungeons until I was fully decked in heroic level epics, then I had to grind the tier 1 raid (karazhan back then) until I was fully geared there if I wanted to go to a tier 2 raid, and so on.

The difference in GW2, I could get a character to level 80, spend a few silver in a full set of rare quality gear, and I’d be ready to go to a level 1 fractal (fractals considered the closest to end game GW2 currently has), or head on to WvW and be able to be competitive there in groups (back in WoW you’d be dead meat in any kind of PvP until you grinded enough of it to purchase a set of armor with PvP stats), or take part in any dungeon or event in the game. Of course, I wouldn’t expect to be able to do a level 50 fractal right off the bat, but I can still experience fractals perfectly fine without any grind whatsoever.

At least that’s how it has worked for me so far, but of course I’m not of the “must have best in slot or nothing” mentality when it comes for gear… still leveling armorsmith as my first one to 500, and working (close now) on my second ascended weapon… and actually the only time I’ve ever really chased after a piece of gear has been when I’ve liked the look of it…

My first character was able to get temple exotic armor with karma doing nothing but exploring the whole world and back then the occasional daily. I didn’t use Karma boosters, I didn’t revisit content, I did a few of the LS changes but primarily I simply went for map complete, doing DEs along the way.

Now after my first character I do repeat content simply because I’m familiar with it. But I don’t consider it grind because I don’t have a particular goal I’m going for. I don’t feel I’m being pushed to do something I don’t want to do.

How difficult is it to choose not go for the “carrot”? Do you really need the “carrot”?

Maxite.6102:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You must be kidding…

After they introduced the grindiest grinds ever in a western AAA MMO (noone likes to grind they said), vertical progression (even casuals should have BiS they said), most of the events are watered down to press 1, 1 and 1 again (boring they said), you still think they would give a kitten about what they said in the past?

That is a lot of faith you got there.

Perhaps you should gain some experience/knowledge by playing other MMO’s than just this one. You would see that all of them have a grind and GW2’s pales in comparison to some of them.

Asheron’s Call 2
Anarchy Online
Horizons
WoW
LotRO
DCU
Aion
STO
Defiance
AoC
.
.
.

Just to name some of the more well known ones I played to max level (besides Anarchy online). Most of them AAA at start, and the only one that comes even close to the ascended grind is Aion at release.

For everyone on the same power level at eighty and advertised as non grindy game, just this combination is a sarcastic statement since ascended items were introduced.

I don’t know why people would call it a misinterpration of the manifesto though, as ANet themselves have stated that they stopped following it…

Played some of these too, and you are full of it. Ascended, for one thing, isn’t even required. But try doing a T10 WoW raid in T2 armor and see how well it goes. We’ll wait. But if you actually played these games then you know what you’re spewing and doing it anyway. Can’t really reason when its pouting.

This. Asheron’s Call wasn’t a grind? You are freaking kidding me..

I ask this question sincerely: what was so special about the Queensdale train that removing it prevents you from having fun?

I’ve seen a lot of comments on the issue that amount to “I hate grinding the same things over and over again, because it forces me to grind the Queensdale train over and over again” and want to understand the logic behind people’s thoughts.

crazy.9083:

Maxite.6102:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You must be kidding…

After they introduced the grindiest grinds ever in a western AAA MMO (noone likes to grind they said), vertical progression (even casuals should have BiS they said), most of the events are watered down to press 1, 1 and 1 again (boring they said), you still think they would give a kitten about what they said in the past?

That is a lot of faith you got there.

Perhaps you should gain some experience/knowledge by playing other MMO’s than just this one. You would see that all of them have a grind and GW2’s pales in comparison to some of them.

Asheron’s Call 2
Anarchy Online
Horizons
WoW
LotRO
DCU
Aion
STO
Defiance
AoC
.
.
.

Just to name some of the more well known ones I played to max level (besides Anarchy online). Most of them AAA at start, and the only one that comes even close to the ascended grind is Aion at release.

For everyone on the same power level at eighty and advertised as non grindy game, just this combination is a sarcastic statement since ascended items were introduced.

I don’t know why people would call it a misinterpration of the manifesto though, as ANet themselves have stated that they stopped following it…

Played some of these too, and you are full of it. Ascended, for one thing, isn’t even required. But try doing a T10 WoW raid in T2 armor and see how well it goes. We’ll wait. But if you actually played these games then you know what you’re spewing and doing it anyway. Can’t really reason when its pouting.

This. Asheron’s Call wasn’t a grind? You are freaking kidding me..

Yeah, it was crazy to be honest, but farming “the beach” with two tacticans made you level like crazy and endgame before hero patch was for sure no grind for items… ^^
Was not expecting anyone to have a clue though, so I am impressed that there are still players of this game around… xD

On the matter of who ever said something about no grind for BiS, I quote:

Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game[…]

Ronah Lynda.2496:

This game has been advertised like " we make the game for you, the player, we let you play the way you want to play"
This has been happening for over a year now but after the recent nerfs, “the way of how we want to play” has become “the way we want you to play”
Notice the change? it is “you”

You can still play the way you want to play. Nothing to stop you. If the like scenery in a zone and people who adventure there then go back there and see it all again and again.

I guessing you’re actually complaining that you’re no longer highly rewarded for low skill activities, like the Queensdale champ train. Well you can still choose to play low challenge content for low reward if you want to play that way, can’t you?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

crazy.9083:

Maxite.6102:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You must be kidding…

After they introduced the grindiest grinds ever in a western AAA MMO (noone likes to grind they said), vertical progression (even casuals should have BiS they said), most of the events are watered down to press 1, 1 and 1 again (boring they said), you still think they would give a kitten about what they said in the past?

That is a lot of faith you got there.

Perhaps you should gain some experience/knowledge by playing other MMO’s than just this one. You would see that all of them have a grind and GW2’s pales in comparison to some of them.

Asheron’s Call 2
Anarchy Online
Horizons
WoW
LotRO
DCU
Aion
STO
Defiance
AoC
.
.
.

Just to name some of the more well known ones I played to max level (besides Anarchy online). Most of them AAA at start, and the only one that comes even close to the ascended grind is Aion at release.

For everyone on the same power level at eighty and advertised as non grindy game, just this combination is a sarcastic statement since ascended items were introduced.

I don’t know why people would call it a misinterpration of the manifesto though, as ANet themselves have stated that they stopped following it…

Played some of these too, and you are full of it. Ascended, for one thing, isn’t even required. But try doing a T10 WoW raid in T2 armor and see how well it goes. We’ll wait. But if you actually played these games then you know what you’re spewing and doing it anyway. Can’t really reason when its pouting.

This. Asheron’s Call wasn’t a grind? You are freaking kidding me..

Yeah, it was crazy to be honest, but farming “the beach” with two tacticans made you level like crazy and endgame before hero patch was for sure not grind for items… ^^
Was not expecting anyone to have a clue though, so I am impressed that there are still players of this game around… xD

On the matter of who ever said something about no grind for BiS, I quote:

Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game[…]

I’ll forgive you for having a different opinion on this game than I do. Anyone who played AC is forgiven

Stooperdale.3560:

Ronah Lynda.2496:

This game has been advertised like " we make the game for you, the player, we let you play the way you want to play"
This has been happening for over a year now but after the recent nerfs, “the way of how we want to play” has become “the way we want you to play”
Notice the change? it is “you”

You can still play the way you want to play. Nothing to stop you. If the like scenery in a zone and people who adventure there then go back there and see it all again and again.

I guessing you’re actually complaining that you’re no longer highly rewarded for low skill activities, like the Queensdale champ train. Well you can still choose to play low challenge content for low reward if you want to play that way, can’t you?

No, From each patch – the reality is you can only play the way Anet wants you to play. That way of “playing” is directing you to the cash shop with each and every patch.

In terms of content – all content in this game is low level quite frankly. There is absolutely little to no challenge in pve – but that’s another debate entirely. In terms of being highly rewarded for it – I do find your point interesting. Amazing how train awarded players more for their time and effort then any content release to date.

Most would view that as a terrible design problem with Anet not rewarding its “higher” level content or events enough to sway players away from farming.

The reality is Anet is moving in a direction were a lot of players will not be interested in going. The new event is a mindless, time bloated, poorly designed event with absolutely horrid rewards for how long it takes to complete.

I understand Anet needs to make a profit , and I have truly supported that idea prior but enough is enough.

The content they are rehashing is a terrible excuse for a patch.

The event last year was enjoyable – this one is probably one of the worst I have seen from a company in a long time.

Look, we’ve seen the Eurogamer interview a million times. THEY CHANGED THEIR MIND.

I don’t like it myself: I have zero interest in getting Ascended armor. I’ve got most of my toons up to Ascended weapons, though. At least the ones that I care about.

That said, none of the content in the game is gated in a way that requires Ascended gear. That’s the big difference. Yes, you can be a little more powerful. Yes, it makes the content a little easier and a little faster. But the only gear you need is Exotic. In fact, probably even Rare.

Now, if they start releasing 5-man content that requires everybody to be in full Ascended, I’ll be up in arms with the rest of you guys.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You must be kidding…

After they introduced the grindiest grinds ever in a western AAA MMO (noone likes to grind they said), vertical progression (even casuals should have BiS they said), most of the events are watered down to press 1, 1 and 1 again (boring they said), you still think they would give a kitten about what they said in the past?

That is a lot of faith you got there.

Hi, how’s ESO going?
(sorry, I couldn’t help it :<)

First of all, you can never eliminate grind in a MMO, ever. The very fact that devs can’t make content faster than players play them just enforces this.

The difference here is that the grind is optional, you aren’t gated from any content apart from very high FotMs (I won’t go into this argument again) by not grinding.

Watered down to 1,1,1,1? Mentality like that is why I don’t ever bother with Wurm or Teq, and why I gave up on Queen’s Pavillion after 5mins.

timmyf.1490:

Look, we’ve seen the Eurogamer interview a million times. THEY CHANGED THEIR MIND.

I don’t like it myself: I have zero interest in getting Ascended armor. I’ve got most of my toons up to Ascended weapons, though. At least the ones that I care about.

That said, none of the content in the game is gated in a way that requires Ascended gear. That’s the big difference. Yes, you can be a little more powerful. Yes, it makes the content a little easier and a little faster. But the only gear you need is Exotic. In fact, probably even Rare.

Now, if they start releasing 5-man content that requires everybody to be in full Ascended, I’ll be up in arms with the rest of you guys.

I think that this is subjective. The game is not enjoyable for me without BiS gear. All content is gated in such a was to require Ascended gear, for me. Then again I am willing to wait and see if they add alternate methods of acquisition or the ability to trade for BiS.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

On the matter of who ever said something about no grind for BiS, I quote:

Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game[…]

The problem seems to be that the development team didn’t realize what would happen to the in-game economy when everyone got their full Exotic gear. At that point, it was either grind for a Legendary while all the lesser crafting materials accumulate or find something else for people with full exotic gear to do to consume currency and crafting materials.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You must be kidding…

After they introduced the grindiest grinds ever in a western AAA MMO (noone likes to grind they said), vertical progression (even casuals should have BiS they said), most of the events are watered down to press 1, 1 and 1 again (boring they said), you still think they would give a kitten about what they said in the past?

That is a lot of faith you got there.

Hi, how’s ESO going?
(sorry, I couldn’t help it :<)

First of all, you can never eliminate grind in a MMO, ever. The very fact that devs can’t make content faster than players play them just enforces this.

The difference here is that the grind is optional, you aren’t gated from any content apart from very high FotMs (I won’t go into this argument again) by not grinding.

Watered down to 1,1,1,1? Mentality like that is why I don’t ever bother with Wurm or Teq, and why I gave up on Queen’s Pavillion after 5mins.

The problem isn’t the grind itself.

The problem isn’t the event’s themselves.

The problem is the total lack of reward for doing ANYTHING in this game that is not gem shop related.

Everything in this game is grind based when you truly break it down. That isn’t even the issue since it’s expected in a mmo – BUT the issue comes in when the rewards are so lack luster the grind it not worth it.

“No, From each patch – the reality is you can only play the way Anet wants you to play. That way of “playing” is directing you to the cash shop with each and every patch.”

That’s just the cynics view of everything in GW2. I’ve seen nothing in the gem store that I need to buy. I can play exactly the way I want to play without gems. I’ve seen nothing to convince me that other people can only play the game in the way they want to play if they visit the gem store. They might not be able to get the rewards they want but that is something entirely different.

What way do you want to play that is impossible without the gem store? Does it involve a reward of some kind?

Ashen.2907:

timmyf.1490:

Look, we’ve seen the Eurogamer interview a million times. THEY CHANGED THEIR MIND.

I don’t like it myself: I have zero interest in getting Ascended armor. I’ve got most of my toons up to Ascended weapons, though. At least the ones that I care about.

That said, none of the content in the game is gated in a way that requires Ascended gear. That’s the big difference. Yes, you can be a little more powerful. Yes, it makes the content a little easier and a little faster. But the only gear you need is Exotic. In fact, probably even Rare.

Now, if they start releasing 5-man content that requires everybody to be in full Ascended, I’ll be up in arms with the rest of you guys.

I think that this is subjective. The game is not enjoyable for me without BiS gear. All content is gated in such a was to require Ascended gear, for me. Then again I am willing to wait and see if they add alternate methods of acquisition or the ability to trade for BiS.

Perhaps we could find a common language? Where other MMOs use hard-gates that absolutely require BiS gear to complete new content, GW2 uses a soft-gate which encourages and promotes but does not require BiS gear?

I must give you respect for recognizing this as a personal requirement, though. I hate to speak for others, but I’d say the vast majority of the playerbase does not consider their character unusable or diminished because they only have full Exotic.

But again, I could be terribly wrong about that.

Stooperdale.3560:

“No, From each patch – the reality is you can only play the way Anet wants you to play. That way of “playing” is directing you to the cash shop with each and every patch.”

That’s just the cynics view of everything in GW2. I’ve seen nothing in the gem store that I need to buy. I can play exactly the way I want to play without gems. I’ve seen nothing to convince me that other people can only play the game in the way they want to play if they visit the gem store. They might not be able to get the rewards they want but that is something entirely different.

What way do you want to play that is impossible without the gem store? Does it involve a reward of some kind?

Each patch has continually nerfed the ability for players to accumulate gold.

That forces players to the gem shop for gem to gold conversions – especially casual players.

There is nothing cynical about my viewpoint – I just happen to live in reality. GW2 has become a cash grab game – like it or not and apparently many other users agree with me as this forum can prove.

Did you miss the asterisk in the manifesto, OP? I’d suggest you go watch it again.

“[sic] play the way you want to play*”

*Within a very narrow, ever-shifting set of confines.

Azreell.1568:

Stooperdale.3560:

“No, From each patch – the reality is you can only play the way Anet wants you to play. That way of “playing” is directing you to the cash shop with each and every patch.”

That’s just the cynics view of everything in GW2. I’ve seen nothing in the gem store that I need to buy. I can play exactly the way I want to play without gems. I’ve seen nothing to convince me that other people can only play the game in the way they want to play if they visit the gem store. They might not be able to get the rewards they want but that is something entirely different.

What way do you want to play that is impossible without the gem store? Does it involve a reward of some kind?

Each patch has continually nerfed the ability for players to accumulate gold.

That forces players to the gem shop for gem to gold conversions – especially casual players.

There is nothing cynical about my viewpoint – I just happen to live in reality. GW2 has become a cash grab game – like it or not and apparently many other users agree with me as this forum can prove.

There’s logical fallacy in the argument you just made which I bolded.

You do know that we got grind because of people whining about there being nothing to do and wanting grind… right? People got to the end of the game, didn’t understand the concept of playing for fun and pretty much demanded it… so Anet gave the vocal minority their ascended.

What “my way”?

Well, you can play “your way”, but don’t expect rewards out of it.

This game discourages you from playing the way you want to play, due to it’s reward system, which point’s you to the direction Anet wants.

What makes a truly good game is to have all the different aspects of it equally rewarding, so the player can play what he truly enjoys. Guess what, gw2 is far, far from it.

And no, im not saying make it easy. Make it equally rewarding.

timmyf.1490:

Ashen.2907:

timmyf.1490:

Look, we’ve seen the Eurogamer interview a million times. THEY CHANGED THEIR MIND.

I don’t like it myself: I have zero interest in getting Ascended armor. I’ve got most of my toons up to Ascended weapons, though. At least the ones that I care about.

That said, none of the content in the game is gated in a way that requires Ascended gear. That’s the big difference. Yes, you can be a little more powerful. Yes, it makes the content a little easier and a little faster. But the only gear you need is Exotic. In fact, probably even Rare.

Now, if they start releasing 5-man content that requires everybody to be in full Ascended, I’ll be up in arms with the rest of you guys.

I think that this is subjective. The game is not enjoyable for me without BiS gear. All content is gated in such a was to require Ascended gear, for me. Then again I am willing to wait and see if they add alternate methods of acquisition or the ability to trade for BiS.

Perhaps we could find a common language? Where other MMOs use hard-gates that absolutely require BiS gear to complete new content, GW2 uses a soft-gate which encourages and promotes but does not require BiS gear?

I must give you respect for recognizing this as a personal requirement, though. I hate to speak for others, but I’d say the vast majority of the playerbase does not consider their character unusable or diminished because they only have full Exotic.

But again, I could be terribly wrong about that.

I expect that you are correct regarding how the majority feel about characters equiped in second rate gear. You are also correct in that I am speaking only for myself in this matter.

To me a hard gate such as you describe is not significantly different than removing the fun from the experience so that there is no longer a game to be played bit rather a chore to be completed. But, again, I am willing to wait.

DancingMad.8504:

What “my way”?

Well, you can play “your way”, but don’t expect rewards out of it.

This game discourages you from playing the way you want to play, due to it’s reward system, which point’s you to the direction Anet wants.

What makes a truly good game is to have all the different aspects of it equally rewarding, so the player can play what he truly enjoys. Guess what, gw2 is far, far from it.

And no, im not saying make it easy. Make it equally rewarding.

The problem is that’s impossible. There’s too many different variables at work and so many ways to exploit everything.

Tried to make exploring rewarding —→ people ran champ trains.
Tried to make WvW rewarding in EotM --—→ EotM is now a farm train where everyone is in agreements with each other to not fight and zerg in a rotating circle.

I don’t think “you can play your way” means things should be equally rewarding. I think the harder the content, the more rewarding it should be.

(That’s obviously not the case in GW2…)

the lyrics of an older song go like this: “my way or the highway” , so if i apply this to the game it’s either take it or leave it.

This whole thread is a fairly pointless time sink…….the whole topic is very subjective, as everyone has their own way of finding enjoyment with a game. So, of course, different aspects appeal and don’t appeal to different players. There is no right or wrong way….there are just different ways to play, and the enjoyment factor all depends on the person and what they consider enjoyable or not enjoyable in an mmorpg.

/shrug

There has never really been a “my way”.

There appears to be a game created by developers for next-bench players (e.g. created by developers who wish to play the game they created. see: pre-release videos). There appears to be this concept that the developers being gamers themselves understand the kind of game that others would enjoy, because they enjoy playing it a particular way. There appears to be a lack of awareness/understanding of customer experience, and a mature business need for marketing segmentation and the rigor involved with both.

Underneath all the apparent freedom with hearts and events and versatility in builds, looking beneath the surface, it appears that a campaign-driven style of directed gameplay is at odds with the freedom of exploration/replayability inherent in an MMO. In other words, it feels like the developers’ transition from single-player gaming concepts to a real MMO gaming model was not totally complete.

ANet has made it very clear, that this is not “your game”, it is their game and they have and will do anything they wish with it.

“Your way” within the framework of the game, no matter how they change it. Adapt or leave, your choice.

We play how Anet want’s us to. PvP and WvW getting left behind, nerf PvE dailies and try to funnel PvE players there. Not spending enough time in certain zones, nerf other zones to force you there. Anet seems to spend a lot of time trying to direct players into certain areas. Instead of improving the areas they want to funnel us into they nerf the heck out of everything else to try to force us there.