Guild Wars 2

“Kumu, There are CLEAR differences between wvw and spvp, only a brain dead pvper would not see them. Once again wvw has pve xp, drops and allows you to use pve gear. While spvp DOES NOT. As usual YOU are the one thats DEAD wrong but since you are a pvper whats new. Do badges of honor have ANY effect on the result of a wvw match ? NO. Do ONLY pvpers want those badges NO. Is this the ONLY place where you can get siege blueprints NO. So as usual your argument has no point just like pvp and wvw.”

Actually. I am a PvE player. I’ve said that many times. When I go to WvWvW I am wearing my Magic Find gear. I’m just too lazy to get a new set.

I go to WvWvW maybe once or twice a week. Just for a change of pace.

So you can take your generalizations elsewhere as they don’t apply to me. The difference between you and I is that I am objective. I play both sides. I am a PvE player who partakes in PvP every now and again.

PvP zones are what they are. They are NOT PvE playgrounds. They have vastly different rules and no safety net.

What I see when I read this is three things:

1) “Bro, so I was in Eternal Battlegrounds and I was all killing mobs off on my own. All of a sudden a player came and ganked me while I was fighting a mob. Why is this even allowed? I was doing PvE! I wasn’t even there to PvP!”

2) “Yesterday I was in our Borderlands and I was just roaming around trying to grab material nodes. Every 5 minutes, though, someone killed me. Please ban them because I didn’t even go there to PvP!”

3) “Um, ANet, can you please help? I went to the Borderlands to get my missing Vistas. When I got there I got killed trying to enter the enemy’s keeps so I could snag the Vistas. This is clearly griefing because they refuse to let me into their keeps so I can get my Vista. Ban them. Thanks.”

Seriously. Get real, guys.

Spike Firebrand.8943:

Sigh I would get more sense talking to a brick wall then you lot. wvw is NOT a pvp ONLY zone. Its BOTH. Hence BOTH rules sets apply and in PVE you are NOT allowed to grief people simple as that. But carry on doing it, I don’t care if you get banned. In fact I really hope you do.

Again you make generalizations. Did you completely miss the fact that I have not completed that jump puzzle yet? I’m sure you did. Your eyes glaze over in hatred when someone mentions that they even look sideways at participating in PvP. Your prejudice against those who partake is palpable.

Kumu you do pvp therefore you are a pvper accoring to you so as usual your arguement is irrelevant just like wvw/pvp

Wow. Totally rabid. You get no more discussion from me. Good day sir.

raptorak.8250:

What I see when I read this is three things:

1) “Bro, so I was in Eternal Battlegrounds and I was all killing mobs off on my own. All of a sudden a player came and ganked me while I was fighting a mob. Why is this even allowed? I was doing PvE! I wasn’t even there to PvP!”

2) “Yesterday I was in our Borderlands and I was just roaming around trying to grab material nodes. Every 5 minutes, though, someone killed me. Please ban them because I didn’t even go there to PvP!”

3) “Um, ANet, can you please help? I went to the Borderlands to get my missing Vistas. When I got there I got killed trying to enter the enemy’s keeps so I could snag the Vistas. This is clearly griefing because they refuse to let me into their keeps so I can get my Vista. Ban them. Thanks.”

Seriously. Get real, guys.

None of those are even in this thread. If they are, they’re not on topic.

PvP in PvP zone that is all there is to it.Ganking is a way of life. Let me suggest not going into the puzzle at all then there is no griefing. Problem solved.

Spike Firebrand.8943:

Sigh I would get more sense talking to a brick wall then you lot. wvw is NOT a pvp ONLY zone. Its BOTH. Hence BOTH rules sets apply and in PVE you are NOT allowed to grief people simple as that. But carry on doing it, I don’t care if you get banned. In fact I really hope you do.

If there is a pvp solution to your problem it is not griefing. You cannot by definition grief the opposing factions as the whole intention of PvP is to kill them and make their lives as difficult as possible, so as long as you are allowed to kill them doing so cannot be considered griefing. Doesn’t matter if they don’t want to be killed or if it prevents them from doing what they want, if they are in a pvp area they are free game for anyone and it is my job as your enemy to do my utmost to prevent you from doing what you want. And I repeat: the puzzles are part of the pvp area.

End of discussion.

How is this even a discussion anet wouldn’t have placed the puzzle in WvW if they didn’t want players to do this

Spike Firebrand.8943:

Vayra.3290:

Spike Firebrand.8943:

Sigh I would get more sense talking to a brick wall then you lot. wvw is NOT a pvp ONLY zone. Its BOTH. Hence BOTH rules sets apply and in PVE you are NOT allowed to grief people simple as that. But carry on doing it, I don’t care if you get banned. In fact I really hope you do.

If there is a pvp solution to your problem it is not griefing. You cannot by definition grief the opposing factions as the whole intention of PvP is to kill them and make their lives as difficult as possible, so as long as you are allowed to kill them doing so cannot be considered griefing. Doesn’t matter if they don’t want to be killed or if it prevents them from doing what they want, if they are in a pvp area they are free game for anyone and it is my job as your enemy to do my utmost to prevent you from doing what you want. And I repeat: the puzzles are part of the pvp area.

End of discussion.

Once again you prove just how dumb pvpers are. Can you read and understand english Varya ? If so what is SO HARD to undertand about the following FACT. wvw is played under BOTH THE PVP AND PVE RULES. One of the PVE rules is that YOU CAN NOT GRIEF PEOPLE. Therefore if you grief people in wvw your breaking rhe rules.

End of discussion.

And I am trying to explain to you that what they are doing is NOT GRIEFING. You could grief your own server since there is nothing you can do to prevent that (continually releasing traps on teammates). But the enemy is ALWAYS fair game and there is NOTHING you can do that can be considered griefing the enemy. Nothing.

This is due to the simple fact that they are the enemy and they are flagged for pvp. Fighting and killing them is the express purpose of the zone (this includes the jumping puzzle) and so doing that cannot be considered griefing.

LOL

Do you really think ANet didn’t see this type of behavior happening when they added a JP to WvW?

Deal with it.

Cerulean.5142:

Regardless if this is a PvP zone or not, it does border on griefing since it is in a PvE puzzle. OP do you think Anet sits and watches every server, every zone, 24 hours a day? If you think that these people are griefing then report them. Posting it on the forums will do no good and will just cause people to flame you and grief you on the forums.

This isnt a PVE puzzle. …wow…

Its in the mist in the Eternal Battlegrounds…A PVP zone.

The puzzle its self has traps and devices made for PVP.

even the rewards are Badeges and blueprints..which happen to be PVP items…should actually go to a PVP zone once in a while.

OP and supporters should just stay in the safety and feel good land known as PVE and not complain when they get stomped on in an “OPTIONAL” “PVP” jump puzzle

I had the same issue with people pinning me down in that room with seige equipment and guess what…I dealt with it and eventually made it.

Dalris Thane.6314:

A key point of PvP is the “Versus” so, even in arguments, the odds that an antagonistic PVP person changes their mind isn’t great. They LIKE to fight, verbally, in game, likely IRL too.

That’s me! I play WvW, but in my spare time I stalk the streets looking for trouble. I just randomly swear at people walking by and then bring the pain if they give me lip. I’m bad to the bone baby!!

But seriously, it’s a PvP zone. You really expect the enemy to play nice?

If you’re that desperate for map completion, why don’t you take advantage of free server transfers while they’re still free?

I prefer to mostly play PvE. When I do go into WvW, I expect to fight. If I go there for map completion or to do a jumping puzzle, I expect the enemy players to try to kill me. That is kind of the point of WvWvW.

While I would prefer if there were separate PvE and PvP achievements, and that world completion did not include PvP zones, that is not what we have. Until and unless it changes, I will either not choose to do these things, or accept that I can be killed while doing them, or outright prevented from doing them.

We are entitled to play the game as the designers designed it. We are not entitled to get everything we want whenever we want it. However, that is what I am hearing in some of these posts.

Its VERY obvious that the way players are currently controlling this area is not what anet intended to happen. The enviromental traps are there for a reason! Use them.. Dont grief with artillery peices when you should be playing fair and using the traps or your own abilitys..

Anet should fix this and prevent srty from being used here or play with the view distance inside this place or something... Each side has his own portal so why not seperate the sides and have them only be able to attack erach other using the traps or some fixed emplaments, this would make it fun, challenging and would stop all the arguments on both sides.

The people defending it here are the exact same people who spend all there day at the puzzle spamming arty on one little square....

Shocked and feel it’s frankly shameful that the OP was infracted for their post.
What’s wrong with it? It wasn’t inciting trouble nor bashing or flaming.

The fact of the matter is, regardless that this is happening in pvp, it is griefing. This is very much against Anet’s perscribed mandate and as players we are legitimately allowed to ask why this is allowed to continue.

Anet need to ensure they don’t develop the haughty attitude of other game developers in their dealings with players. So far they’ve been exemplary, in GW1 (which I played extensively) and now in GW2. But players have their voice and you can’t infract people for asking legitimate questions.

Frankly disappointed.

Infractions on these forums have zero rhyme or reason.

Even though I highly disagree with the OP’s premise. It didn’t deserve an infraction (And you and I will receive one for discussing moderation as well.)

Its a pvp zone and someone died….news at 11.

Snow White.9680:

Why do you allow, and encourage players to grief others in wvw puzzles?

currently in EB there are 3+ players creating arrowcarts and balistas at the end room of the puzzle killing players so they cant complete it.

Why is this allowed? Why is this encouraged?

First, I don’t really go to WvW much. Imo they should not have situations where you can’t fight them. Part of this puzzle is PvP and you should call upon you guild to take these people out.

however it should be possible for a guild to take these people out, if there is a kinda exploit situation where people can not be targeted then the jumping puzzle is kinda broken.

Ok, so you’re upset that the enemy is spending resources that they could be spending defending their point-scoring locations, to instead defend a resource-granting location.

Denial of resources is a time-honoured tactic in war, if you feel it’s not worth the effort to commit resources to taking it back, go enjoy your tactical superiority and go take Stonemist.

Or organise a group to take the only non-scoring objective left in WvW off them.

WvW isn’t just PvP, it’s Massive Team PvP. If the other side consider something worth defending, then don’t expect to be able to take it off them without at least 3/4 of their numbers.

Spike Firebrand.8943:

Once again you prove just how dumb pvpers are. Can you read and understand english Varya ? If so what is SO HARD to undertand about the following FACT. wvw is played under BOTH THE PVP AND PVE RULES. One of the PVE rules is that YOU CAN NOT GRIEF PEOPLE. Therefore if you grief people in wvw your breaking rhe rules.

You can’t seem to grasp the concept that killing your opponents in the most efficient manner possible by the rules in a PvP zone isn’t griefing. Stacking 30 siege on top of the chest so that your allies can’t open it is griefing. See the difference there?

Snow White.9680:

Why do you allow, and encourage players to grief others in wvw puzzles?

currently in EB there are 3+ players creating arrowcarts and balistas at the end room of the puzzle killing players so they cant complete it.

Why is this allowed? Why is this encouraged?

everything is working as intended.

please do not blame the game if you are unable to defeat your enemies.

There are other places in wvw where you can place siege that cannot be hit or is very difficult to hit it. It isn’t an exploit, it is strategy. It isn’t griefing, it is pvp. You do not have to go to wvw, you do not have to do the puzzle. If you are doing it for an achievement, that is your choice. I personally hate dungeons but am going to “have” to do some for my monthly. I don’t think Anet or the dungeon mobs are griefing me though. If I want the monthly, I’ll do the dungeons. If you want the map completion or jump puzzle achievement, you’ll do the wvw.

I like EB and the jumping puzzle the way it is….

BUT

Anet put the ‘mystic fountains’ in there for a reason. I think somebody should be able to, with skill, be able to stealth past a force guarding the jumping puzzle, and currently there are a few ‘choke points’ (mostly in the arena) that prevent that from happening because there are certain points that can be spammed with arrows that even a stealthed person HAS to travel over. Due to being put in combat with any damage, there is 0% chance that a person, no matter how crafty or good they are, can make it. up to deal with the camper.

The reason I say this is that I tried a stealth run when the EB maze was full of bad guys, and it was very TENSE and FUN. I ended up falling and failing (I just can’t go through it fast enough to keep my stealth active yet), but it was still fun. Arrow carts spamming a single spot make those kinds of stealth runs impossible, which I don’t believe was the intention of Anet when they added the mystic fountains.

So in summary, PVP in the EB puzzle is fine, but there should somehow be some alternative for people to fight back against people non-stop arrow carting an arena lamp (or any other single point chokepoint). Maybe alter mystic fountain buff or make an alternate path to the top of the arena.

raptorak.8250:

What I see when I read this is three things:

1) “Bro, so I was in Eternal Battlegrounds and I was all killing mobs off on my own. All of a sudden a player came and ganked me while I was fighting a mob. Why is this even allowed? I was doing PvE! I wasn’t even there to PvP!”

2) “Yesterday I was in our Borderlands and I was just roaming around trying to grab material nodes. Every 5 minutes, though, someone killed me. Please ban them because I didn’t even go there to PvP!”

3) “Um, ANet, can you please help? I went to the Borderlands to get my missing Vistas. When I got there I got killed trying to enter the enemy’s keeps so I could snag the Vistas. This is clearly griefing because they refuse to let me into their keeps so I can get my Vista. Ban them. Thanks.”

Seriously. Get real, guys.

My only response to this is…. lets add a few dozen arrow carts specifically placed and used to stop you from doing any of these things, with people who are sitting there for hours on end to prohibit you from being able to accomplish these tasks. Pretty sure that falls under griefing.

Now in fairness, the JP does have rewards that can impact the PvP parts of the game… So there is some tactical advantage in prohibiting the opposing team from getting these rewards. I do like the idea of a JP that has PvP aspects to it… I just don’t think the current JP is well designed with this in mind.

It’s a JP in a OPvP zone, its not considered PvE content. So calling it griefing isnt a viable argument. Just like calling it griefing when you get killed on PvP servers in other games.

You chose to go there/roll there. You know what comes with the territory, you arent forced to be there.

The JP also offers PvP rewards, so I dont see whats so hard to understand.

I suppose the question boils down to how the devs wanted the WvW JPs to be played and if players are using certain aspects in unintended ways… This requires a statement from Anet on the matter.

This argument is running it’s course almost the same as the old speed run argument. The community was arguing whether or not it actual was an exploit until Anet actually said “this is an exploit” and changed up the loot system, including the introduction of the DR.

That’s no such thing as “griefing” in a PvP zone.

Red Falcon.8257:

That’s no such thing as “griefing” in a PvP zone.

Actually there is… what you can get away with is dependent on the developer. In WoW on a PvP server, ganking and corpse camping isn’t griefing but training mobs is griefing. This is sort of a unique case, would love to hear Anet’s opinion on it since they ultimately decide what is and isn’t griefing.

Personally, I just think it’s a poorly designed jumping puzzle because it’s not possible to complete while in combat, yet you can technically be in combat during any point of it… Regardless of the presence of siege weapons or not having them.

It’s not PvP if you can’t fight back. And really, it is impossible as long as they keep firing the siege weapons at the path up, not even invisible players can get through to retaliate. And they sit up there for hours at a time, not even large groups can scratch them.

This one thing ruins an otherwise fun pvp/pve jumping puzzle.

How dare them to get in the way of their enemy server in a pvp zone.

Preposterous.

Reihert.1509:

How dare them to get in the way of their enemy server in a pvp zone.

Preposterous.

Feel free to show the “non-believers” how to accomplish the jumping puzzle in the face of overwhelming adversity…. It’s not the concept of a PvP jumping puzzle that people are frustrated with, it’s the execution based on choke points that exist within the puzzle that make it impossible for players to combat the kittens spamming an arrow cart or several from a vantage point that can’t be attacked offensively.

Some would say that this forum is us griefing Anet. So maybe they are paying it forward?

How can an enemy realm grief you….Actually, isn’t the purpose of the enemy realm TO grief you?

I like the idea of this. It opens challenges, just like having some of your champion quests in RvRvR in DAoC. I see nothing wrong with this.

1. It is outside in the open world zone aka WvWvW
2. It is a puzzle with a reward at the end (badges, armor, weapons, and siege plans)
3. Items can be of any quality (blue, green, yellow, etc)
4. They offer risk “and” reward

Ok having listed 4 items off the top of my head you have a open world jumping puzzle that offers risk and rewards. It isn’t supposed to be easy otherwise they would just hand them to you once you enter. They don’t. There are no mobs inside the puzzle (much to my dismay) so all you have to worry about is other server players and your servers players manning the traps. That is it.

Couple reasons why pvp happens in there?

1. Because it can
2. Because you don’t want free siege plans getting out, make them buy it
3. Because it is fun – tell me you haven’t used the log traps and giggled like a school girl
4. Because you have been killed, and it is called revenge or pay back
5. Because of collateral damage – it happens

There is no time limit. You can cheat if your server has mesmers offering safe travel. You can sneak through it by using mystic wells that grant you 5 minute timers of stealth – there are 3 of them. You can kill or be killed. You can go solo, or group. Heck, if you want you can party up and make nice or peace.

Lastly. You can try, and get frustrated, and come here and post why Arena Net allows what they do. However, you can also try, and then try again, then say to heck with it and let the kids play and come back and a later time.

That is what I do. I try, I do, I kill, I make nice and group up, I talk, I emote, and in the end I get my reward. Sometimes it takes as little as 5 minutes, sometimes it takes all f 1 minute if I get a port. Other days it can take about an hour if I have to kill my way through people and siege.

What I don’t do is give up. Not in the real world and sure in the hell not in a fantasy one. Life is too short.

whiran.1473:

I suppose if there are like a few people who are coordinating their arrows so that there is a continual stream of them.. well, that would be annoying but just go do something else and allow those people to get bored.

Solutions that require your opponent to get bored are not solutions. Think about it. This is a game, that is supposedly designed so that people have fun playing it, and in order to get something to work properly, the game has to make one side “get bored.” That’s just wrong. Especially because things that are boring and things that can be handled by a bot tend to be one in the same.

ANet said No-Grind, but that’s not what’s happening right there. It’s an PVP Area right, now this wont even give an chance to other players. People doing that should be BANNED.

It’s not just the streaming arrows from carts, it’s also from vantage points where it’s not possible for players to attack it using other siege weapons or profession abilities… And invisibility doesn’t give you invincibility; so if they just spam carts then you get hit regardless of them being able to see you. We can argue whether it’s griefing or not, but I think we can agree that it’s not right for opposing teams to be unable to counter such setups…

Usually when arrow carts are on a wall, you can either attack the wall/gate outside of the arrow cart range or attack the gate point blank so that the little overhang shields you from arrow cart attacks…. PvP is rife with all sorts of setups that have pros and cons. This is one example where there is only pro and no cons.

Bruno Sardine.2907:

raptorak.8250:

What I see when I read this is three things:

1) “Bro, so I was in Eternal Battlegrounds and I was all killing mobs off on my own. All of a sudden a player came and ganked me while I was fighting a mob. Why is this even allowed? I was doing PvE! I wasn’t even there to PvP!”

2) “Yesterday I was in our Borderlands and I was just roaming around trying to grab material nodes. Every 5 minutes, though, someone killed me. Please ban them because I didn’t even go there to PvP!”

3) “Um, ANet, can you please help? I went to the Borderlands to get my missing Vistas. When I got there I got killed trying to enter the enemy’s keeps so I could snag the Vistas. This is clearly griefing because they refuse to let me into their keeps so I can get my Vista. Ban them. Thanks.”

Seriously. Get real, guys.

My only response to this is…. lets add a few dozen arrow carts specifically placed and used to stop you from doing any of these things, with people who are sitting there for hours on end to prohibit you from being able to accomplish these tasks. Pretty sure that falls under griefing.

Now in fairness, the JP does have rewards that can impact the PvP parts of the game… So there is some tactical advantage in prohibiting the opposing team from getting these rewards. I do like the idea of a JP that has PvP aspects to it… I just don’t think the current JP is well designed with this in mind.

Nope it doesn’t fall under griefing. They are the enemy, you are SUPPOSED to kill them, if they don’t want to get killed they can either go into a pve area or kill you first.

The entire puzzle should have siege deployment blocked.

Siege equipment not only takes things too far, it also makes the puzzle’s built in anti-player weapons redundant, thus circumventing and ruining the original design intent of the WvW jump puzzle.

Also, OP being infracted for having an opinion while people’s rude replies are tolerated is not only vexing, but also quite disappointing.

Spike Firebrand.8943:

Pennry and other who say its a pvp puzzle a question for you. Is the puzzle made out of players? If not thats it part of the enviroment and therefoe pve. Are you really that dense you can’t see that or are you just being obtuse like pvpers allways are.

Gald we agree on that vespers

good lord. By this logic the keeps and towers are pve content as well since they are not made out of players.

I have setup siege in the puzzle before and I have also been on the receiving end and I have no problems with it as it’s quite fun. It is a PvP jump puzzle. As far as I’m aware it’s not written in any scripture somewhere that jump puzzles shall only be allowed as PvE content. Personally I would love to have a PvP zone where the majority of it was jump puzzle aspects. (just make it so you don’t have to be out of combat to make the jumps)

I like how all of those saying it’s a PvE aspect are ignoring the fact that the rewards for completing the puzzle are purely PvP. Guess what when one server holds the puzzle they are denying siege weapons that don’t cost gold from the other servers. If you have a mesmer up there porting and you port 50 people up thats 100 more siege weapons for your team.

I’m sorry that so many have such a difficult time in there but the fact is it is a very nice change of pace to fight in the jump puzzle and have all the up and down going on then just stand around beating on a door.

Some also seem to feel that it’s stupid that you can just pull someone off and they die. Ever heard of being aware of your surroundings? If you don’t want to get pulled off position yourself better.

And now to tell you how to get passed any and all blockades.

MESMERS!

greatsword skill 4 for killing targets out of line of sight.

focus skill 4 for pulling people off of ledges.

portal for porting your amassed army up to fight!

And yes whether you like it or not mesmers are the gods of jump puzzle combat because of these abilities.

Hehehe, I have the sudden urge to go to WvWvW and start destroying keep walls then threatening to report players that kill/try to kill me for griefing me while I was PvEing. lol

That’s the logic I see here.

In a realistic battleground, if a military group found some important strategic location, or resource, they would guard it. If an enemy faction sent people to investigate, that military group would fight to keep it or fight to use it’s strategic value. The enemy faction wouldn’t be coming into the real world forums and post complaints that some military group was not letting them take control or scout out a strategic location like a bunch of crybabies, they would FIGHT against that military group to try and seize control of it themselves.

This has been happening ever since there was life on planet Earth. I honestly don’t see why people are complaining that the enemy isn’t letting them do something. That’s just ignorant.

I’m really surprised how people can come here and say that JP is a PvE activity. Really, you guys are way over on the self entitlement department.

It’s a PvP activity, like every other inside the WvW maps. The rewards are basically PvP ones, so please. stop saying it’s there for your PvE enjoyment. We already have like 75% of the game purely for PvE.

Thank you

You’re just mad. This is legit. It’s PvP, not PvE. Just because it’s a jumping puzzle doesn’t mean it HAS to be PvE. The chest gives you PvP rewards (badges and sieges) that will make you strong in W3 so why should other servers stop you?

A couple weekes ago, I spent like 5 hours with 3 other friends, trying to finish that JP. The arena room was being camped by people on the level above, with arrow carts…

If it wasn’t for all the pvp I found there, I would have finished the whole JP in like 30 mins tops… Instead I had 5 hours of constant fun. In the end, 2 of our friends left. It was then when me and the other one left, decided to go get some sieges for ourselves… We found a very defensible place to put them (2 balistas.. and yes, we did all the runs to build them ourselves) and just the 2 of us, completely anihilated the team camping the arena and their siege weapons. They had a mesmer up there, so they managed to sneak other sieges up there, but we gave other people enough time to climb up and face them on a fair fight…

It is a PvP zone, made for those who like to PvP. Also oPvP is not structured or fair. Some of us like the possibility to overcome greater challenges in a PvP enviroment. I’m sorry it annoys some people, but come on, we already have so many places for PvE addicts to gather. Leave the PvP zones for those who enjoy PvP, being it fair or not.

Well last night we had a group of our guys gang up on some poor souls trying to use this jump puzzle as a death trap. after about an hour of fun as heck fighting, we finally worked our way in and destroyed their siege. It was very rewarding. Best part was we ended up setting our own siege and held it for the rest of the night.

I think that if people are setting up siege weapons in the jumping puzzle areas in WvWvW, it’s debatably a kitteny thing to do, but not necessarily griefing. You go into PvP, you’re potential fodder for whatever your opponent comes up with to kill ya. End of story.

Still, lets call a spade a spade: Some people are doing this because it’s a tactic to prevent people from getting blueprints and badges. Most people are doing this just because it’s fun to kitten with people trying to complete a jumping puzzle. I think if you’re trying to paint some picture to the otherwise, like this is some sort of noble undertaking that a few dedicated souls have committed themselves to for the betterment of team and server, you’re either really naive or dense.

Also, ArenaNet should really take any PvE elements — Badges for Legendaries, map completion, monthly achievements — out of the PvP realm. It would negate many of the issues that seem to crop up. As it is, with carebears being sort of shoehorned into PvP to get their completionist tendencies fulfilled, it’s never going to mix well. Oil on water, man.

It’s a PvP zone and people are complaining that people are doing siege PvP there and claim it’s griefing? What’s next… I can’t push some one off of a vista with my mesmer?

If this really bothers you, then instead of doing the jumping puzzle go do Wv3 until you own the map. You’ll get more loot per time (presuming you’re not a bad player) from doing that and help your server more vs. doing a jumping puzzle anyways. Then once there is little to do on the map and everyone has left… go do the jumping puzzle. Problem solved.

Badges for Legendaries, map completion, and monthly achievements are not PVE. You can use the legendaries in wvw. Map completion shouldn’t be simple, it should be an achievement from completing all of the maps. Otherwise it would be just some of the maps completion. And the monthly achievements have always had kill 50 players on it right? I hate doing dungeons. Does this mean that Anet should remove that from achievements and monthlies?

There are things in the game that are not enjoyable to everyone. I think we can all agree that being killed by puzzle campers isn’t enjoyable for anyone! Being the campers is a lot more fun than being the camped. So don’t be the one camped. If you get there, and it’s camped. Come back later. You don’t have to do it right this second.

vespers.1759:

it’s an open PVP zone…

Which the absolute best example ever of why no one should have open pvp anything. It’s ridiculous to allow such things to go on. And they won’t even be detected because they aren’t the ones attacking the ballistas are. smh.

and people thought I was crazy for saying this was a bad idea.

I don’t have problem with people griefing in WvW JPs. Its meant to be that way. But I do think they shouldn’t allow siege simply because it reduces all the cool fights you can have in there to simple tactics of siege. I mean why chase people helter skelter across a jumping puzzle where your jumping speed and skill might have a factor in your survival or whether you catch them when you can just nuke them from range? Jumping puzzle fights should have jumping in them!

I can’t tell if people are trolling or just completely idiotic in this thread. It’s a pvp zone that drops pvp blueprints to use in pvp, if you get killed, deal with it.

Pochibella.8394:

Badges for Legendaries, map completion, and monthly achievements are not PVE. You can use the legendaries in wvw. Map completion shouldn’t be simple, it should be an achievement from completing all of the maps. Otherwise it would be just some of the maps completion. And the monthly achievements have always had kill 50 players on it right? I hate doing dungeons. Does this mean that Anet should remove that from achievements and monthlies?

There are things in the game that are not enjoyable to everyone. I think we can all agree that being killed by puzzle campers isn’t enjoyable for anyone! Being the campers is a lot more fun than being the camped. So don’t be the one camped. If you get there, and it’s camped. Come back later. You don’t have to do it right this second.

That’s not really a great argument. The three percent of the map achievement that lays in WvWvW is difficult only in the sense that, for some servers, it’s virtually unattainable unless you switch. It’s an answer to the problem, yes, but not really a good one. Otherwise, map clearing in the higher-level PvE zones — Orr, especially — much more arduous a task than following your server’s zergs around. If you happen to be on one that has successful ones, anyway. Therein lies a problem for some. But you ask if ArenaNet should remove dungeons from the achievements? No, but they should separate PvP achievements from PvE. In my opinion. Otherwise, there is always going to be QQ. And, look, I’m not complaining: I don’t mind hopping into WvWvW and getting my 50 slays a month and then getting out. It’s fine, for me. I just get where people are coming from when they say that they rather wouldn’t. It’s a sort of heavy-handed way of arm-twisting people participate in an element of the game that they might not even enjoy. You know, just because there are parts of game that aren’t ‘enjoyable’ doesn’t mean we should just accept it as it is and move on. This can be a better gaming experience for everyone.