Guild Wars 2

imsoenthused.1634:

Thedenofsin.7340:

The operative word here is ‘force’. There is no content in this game where you are forced to get on that grind treadmill. You can hit level 80, buy some rare/exotic gear, and tackle any content in the game. That’s the point.

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content.

This is different than, say, World of Warcraft where you have to grind out your Tier 314,230,118 level Warrior armor and weapons in order to be able to go raid Bahamut’s Belly Button (25 man).

The skin rewards and backpacks and minipets and ascended gear – none of that is necessary to enjoy the game content.

However, if you want those cool things or those rare things or the best items or to be the best in WvW, then, yes, they are available, but they come at a cost. That cost is a grind. However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

The moment you put a stat difference on it, it becomes required. You can argue about that all you want, but you will be wrong.

Mmm, no.

Ascended weapons aren’t required for me to fight the Shatterer. I am not wrong on this.

What happened to the manifesto?

Simple they lied.

Now deal with it and get over it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm, no.

Ascended weapons aren’t required for me to fight the Shatterer. I am not wrong on this.

If they make a single bit of difference in how much damage you do, they are no longer prestige items, they are required. Failure to accept the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

Saying you aren’t required to have the highest tier item in the game is like arguing that you don’t have to bother leveling to the cap. The word that sums that up is “stupid”.

imsoenthused.1634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm, no.

Ascended weapons aren’t required for me to fight the Shatterer. I am not wrong on this.

If they make a single bit of difference in how much damage you do, they are no longer prestige items, they are required. Failure to accept the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

Saying you aren’t required to have the highest tier item in the game is like arguing that you don’t have to bother leveling to the cap. The word that sums that up is “stupid”.

Okay. Let me point this out too.

I don’t have to level to the cap to do the Shatterer either.

Your move.

The manifesto was a nonbinding document; but many of us were excited and pleased by what it said and implied. So we’re understandably disappointed and unhappy by how certain aspects of the game have veered away from the manifesto.

To coin Douglas Adams: ArenaNet is a bunch of kitten kitten who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

imsoenthused.1634:

Thedenofsin.7340:

The operative word here is ‘force’. There is no content in this game where you are forced to get on that grind treadmill. You can hit level 80, buy some rare/exotic gear, and tackle any content in the game. That’s the point.

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content.

This is different than, say, World of Warcraft where you have to grind out your Tier 314,230,118 level Warrior armor and weapons in order to be able to go raid Bahamut’s Belly Button (25 man).

The skin rewards and backpacks and minipets and ascended gear – none of that is necessary to enjoy the game content.

However, if you want those cool things or those rare things or the best items or to be the best in WvW, then, yes, they are available, but they come at a cost. That cost is a grind. However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

The moment you put a stat difference on it, it becomes required. You can argue about that all you want, but you will be wrong.

No, you’re wrong and missing the point. You do not need ascended gear to play the game.
period.

My toons collectively have, I think, 3 pieces of ascended gear and they can handle any content in the game.

If you want to argue it is required, then prove it. Site one example where ascended gear is mandatory to play the game content. Not be the best at it or dominate it, but just play it through and complete it.

imsoenthused.1634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm, no.

Ascended weapons aren’t required for me to fight the Shatterer. I am not wrong on this.

If they make a single bit of difference in how much damage you do, they are no longer prestige items, they are required. Failure to accept the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

Saying you aren’t required to have the highest tier item in the game is like arguing that you don’t have to bother leveling to the cap. The word that sums that up is “stupid”.

I don’t need Ascended gear for anything, and don’t do fractals and I for one will not pursue ascended crafting. I am working toward a legendary, and the pursuance of ascended would have to preclude me ever getting a legendary since I don’t have time to play 6+ hours a day and don’t have the patience to grind relentlessly when I do play. I also refuse to pay real money for virtual gear. The stat difference between ascended and exotic is minor enough that it will not make deciding of a difference in a fight.

imsoenthused.1634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm, no.

Ascended weapons aren’t required for me to fight the Shatterer. I am not wrong on this.

If they make a single bit of difference in how much damage you do, they are no longer prestige items, they are required. Failure to accept the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

Saying you aren’t required to have the highest tier item in the game is like arguing that you don’t have to bother leveling to the cap. The word that sums that up is “stupid”.

If it’s so true and obvious that ascended gear is required, then site some examples.
Prove it.

Thedenofsin.7340:

imsoenthused.1634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm, no.

Ascended weapons aren’t required for me to fight the Shatterer. I am not wrong on this.

If they make a single bit of difference in how much damage you do, they are no longer prestige items, they are required. Failure to accept the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

Saying you aren’t required to have the highest tier item in the game is like arguing that you don’t have to bother leveling to the cap. The word that sums that up is “stupid”.

That word is most applicable to you. Prove it. If it’s so true and obvious, then site some examples.

Ok, if ascended gear stats make no difference, then why bother having ascended gear?

If they made no difference, they might as well be just skins and if they were just skins there wouldn’t be an argument about them.

I guess it depends on why you all play games. Achiever style gamers play to be/have the best. If it has higher level stats, it’s required. If you don’t play that way, fine, but it doesn’t make it any less “required” for all the people who are.

Azala Yar.7693:

Ok, if ascended gear stats make no difference, they why bother having ascended gear?

If they made no difference, they might as well be just skins and if they were just skins there wouldn’t be an argument about them.

It’s a valid point. It’s also a valid solution – if everyone just went “no” and didn’t get them, do you think that would get their attention faster than repeatedly stomping your feet and screaming how it was a betrayal of the game?

Kevan.8912:

@tobias: never intended to insult nobody here. and..“seriously” i can’t find a single line where i insulted anybody. maybe rude or gruff is a proper definition. sorry if you felt insulted by anything.
really really hope that what we write has an influence on the sancta sanctorum, but reason says there is no way of changing the way things go. it’s just a time for bitterness.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne,

There was something in between exotics and legendaries.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

People just weren’t satisfied with purely cosmetic progression.

i loved that skins T.T i worked for it. really enjoyed it. because it was a “free choice”.
the feeling that doing it or just ignoring that event/skin/etc doesn’t give any little impact on combat.

Thedenofsin.7340:

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content……..

However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

true…part of it.
still, the “dominate WvW or be best in fractals” part is, for me and many others, a “game content”.

The problem isn’t in the manifesto then – the problem is that you have misinterpreted it.
The manifesto is referring playing WvW and running Fractals, not being the #1 in Gold Leage WvW or running level 50 Fractals.

Thedenofsin.7340:

The manifesto is referring playing WvW and running Fractals, not being the #1 in Gold Leage WvW or running level 50 Fractals.

Want someone weighing in, how much of the #1 server in Gold League had ascended gear, and how much of it was just focusing PPT?

I apologize for the stupid comment. I just don’t see what the argument is about. If it’s better then it’s required to my mind set. They already had a great system in Guild Wars 1, where prestige items were just skins with no stat differences. You can make acquiring something like that as grind intensive as you want and not violate the spirit of their original manifesto. When you make it have a game play difference, the entire subset of achiever gamers, as defined by the Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology, feel that they have to work towards them. Arguing that the tier underneath them is still viable doesn’t have any impact on that psychology.

imsoenthused.1634:

I apologize for the stupid comment. I just don’t see what the argument is about. If it’s better then it’s required to my mind set. They already had a great system in Guild Wars 1, where prestige items were just skins with no stat differences. You can make acquiring something like that as grind intensive as you want and not violate the spirit of their original manifesto. When you make it have a game play difference, the entire subset of achiever gamers, as defined by the Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology, feel that they have to work towards them. Arguing that the tier underneath them is still viable doesn’t have any impact on that psychology.

I get your point, but I really was trying to point out: just because I don’t have Ascended, it doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy the game. And just because you, personally don’t see merely being viable as good enough, it doesn’t make the game different. It’s still balanced as if Exotic was the highest power tier, therefore the power boost of Ascended isn’t required by the game.

That’s the difference, and that’s where everyone gets so hung up on the argument about the word “forced”. The game is not forcing you into it. It may very well be your personal playstyle or addiction or psychoses or whatever . . . but the game as it stands isn’t doing it.

imsoenthused.1634:

When you make it have a game play difference, the entire subset of achiever gamers, as defined by the Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology, feel that they have to work towards them. Arguing that the tier underneath them is still viable doesn’t have any impact on that psychology.

That’s very true and can be seen very clearly at level 90 in WoW. Although in WoW gear level makes a big difference in combat, so you have to grind just to stay competitive.

Sounds like the stats difference in GW2 is not as great though, question is will that change.

imsoenthused.1634:

I guess it depends on why you all play games. Achiever style gamers play to be/have the best. If it has higher level stats, it’s required. If you don’t play that way, fine, but it doesn’t make it any less “required” for all the people who are.

Yes, and achievers have to understand that they have to grind to get the best of the best. If the grind wasn’t there, then everyone would have all the same stuff and the achievers would not be able to really differentiate themselves from others.

The manifesto didn’t say, “We’re going to make it so the casual gamer can have everything in the game and run content at the highest difficulty settings”.

If you want to push and run the highest fractcals, have all the rare/unique items, and squeeze every last bit of competitive advantage in WvW, then you’re going to grind.

However, if you just want to run normal fractals, get the occasional neat trinket/skin, and play WvW at a normal level, then you don’t have to grind.

Henri Blanche.8276:

The manifesto was a nonbinding document; but many of us were excited and pleased by what it said and implied. So we’re understandably disappointed and unhappy by how certain aspects of the game have veered away from the manifesto.

To coin Douglas Adams: ArenaNet is a bunch of kitten kitten who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

This. When you see an awesome trailer for a movie but the movie turns out to be really bad (and the cool scenes from the trailer aren’t even in the movie), you feel lied to and betrayed. Same thing here.

Lord Kuru.3685:

This. When you see an awesome trailer for a movie but the movie turns out to be really bad (and the cool scenes from the trailer aren’t even in the movie), you feel lied to and betrayed. Same thing here.

You sound like you went to see 47 ronin.

Sadly that’s pretty accurate for both the manifesto and the movie.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Henri Blanche.8276:

The manifesto was a nonbinding document; but many of us were excited and pleased by what it said and implied. So we’re understandably disappointed and unhappy by how certain aspects of the game have veered away from the manifesto.

To coin Douglas Adams: ArenaNet is a bunch of kitten kitten who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

This. When you see an awesome trailer for a movie but the movie turns out to be really bad (and the cool scenes from the trailer aren’t even in the movie), you feel lied to and betrayed. Same thing here.

Agreed, I’m sure there’s many players and ex-players that feel/felt that way.

But it’s been awhile and it’s not going to change now.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Kevan.8912:

@tobias: never intended to insult nobody here. and..“seriously” i can’t find a single line where i insulted anybody. maybe rude or gruff is a proper definition. sorry if you felt insulted by anything.
really really hope that what we write has an influence on the sancta sanctorum, but reason says there is no way of changing the way things go. it’s just a time for bitterness.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne,

There was something in between exotics and legendaries.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

People just weren’t satisfied with purely cosmetic progression.

i loved that skins T.T i worked for it. really enjoyed it. because it was a “free choice”.
the feeling that doing it or just ignoring that event/skin/etc doesn’t give any little impact on combat.

Thedenofsin.7340:

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content……..

However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

true…part of it.
still, the “dominate WvW or be best in fractals” part is, for me and many others, a “game content”.

The problem isn’t in the manifesto then – the problem is that you have misinterpreted it.
The manifesto is referring playing WvW and running Fractals, not being the #1 in Gold Leage WvW or running level 50 Fractals.

the problem is that is not only me who misunderstood the manifesto.
we’re a relevant number.

though…let’s ignore for a moment the manifesto.
it a waste of time arguing on it. no way out. no real discussion.
do you feel satisfied about ascend. and also asked for it? good for you
do you feel neutral about, no difference? good for you

do us feel angry about them?
this is the main theme of this and many other threads.
that’s our crusade. a hopeless one, as 99,9% anet has already taken the path of the infusion treadmill….or even worse.

don’t care if it was a good interpretation or not. the fact that many bought the game for a misinterpretation (if we assume there is, and is not false advertisement) relies also on bad communication on their part.

at this moment, manifesto or not, many feel unsatisfied.
because wanted everything and soon. BiS in a few hours. no new BiS at all.
it’s against any mmo rule? who cares.
we’ll keep asking for it!
as before of us someone did for ascended.

till that moment, if there will ever be, the solution is to put time and money in better investments than gw2.
hope it will change one day

People are taking the word need and using it in a sense of being physical unable to play the content.
This is not the point that people are trying to convey.
What was said in the manifesto was that by level 80 everyone should have the maximum statistical gear, which for the longest time were exotics.
Now, if exotics were the same grind as ascended is now, people would be in an uproar.
Because it was implemented afterwards people seem to think that just because we’ve gotten by with exotics, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be striving to have the BiS gear still.

Your arguments of “well you don’t need ascended equipment” can be backed up by saying sure, you’re right but you don’t need exotics, and you don’t need rares either.
This whole game could even be played through on green items, or even blue, white!
Could. Why aren’t we, those lower tiers are cheaper? Well because we all want to be the best we can be, regardless of how large the stat increase, it’s a stat increase and we want it.
The point is ascended is a stat increase, like exotics, but has a ridiculous acquisition method.
Had ascended been in the game since launch with an ease of acquisition only slightly harder than exotics there wouldn’t be this debate.
The problem is not it’s existence so much as it’s acquisition and it’s timing of introduction.
And that is where I think Anet has done wrong.

Edit; Formatting.

Ashabhi.1365:

If ascended gear had been in the game since day one, nobody would have given it a second thought. People wanted “more” and asked for “it.” They got “it,” and now they’re complaining about the means to get “it.”

There is nothing in this game that is locked if you don’t have ascended gear. Yes, there are things that are immensely easier with it, but if I want to run fractals as high as I possibly can, there is nothing that pops up on my screen that says “Sorry, you don’t have the right gear so you can’t be in here.”

It’s the players that are requiring it. How many LFG have you seen that put restrictions on the players? How many times have you seen “LFG, LVL80 Asc.only?”

Again, it’s not the game that requires it. It’s the players.

People asked for content, asked for things to do in order to get that fun the devs said it would’ve be the engine of their game.
People got Ascendant grind. Wich is not required, so it’s basically a big waste of time that could’ve been used to create actual content and solve the problem.

Am i the only one who find this dumb?

Valanga.5942:

Ashabhi.1365:

If ascended gear had been in the game since day one, nobody would have given it a second thought. People wanted “more” and asked for “it.” They got “it,” and now they’re complaining about the means to get “it.”

There is nothing in this game that is locked if you don’t have ascended gear. Yes, there are things that are immensely easier with it, but if I want to run fractals as high as I possibly can, there is nothing that pops up on my screen that says “Sorry, you don’t have the right gear so you can’t be in here.”

It’s the players that are requiring it. How many LFG have you seen that put restrictions on the players? How many times have you seen “LFG, LVL80 Asc.only?”

Again, it’s not the game that requires it. It’s the players.

People asked for content, asked for things to do in order to get that fun the devs said it would’ve be the engine of their game.
People got Ascendant grind. Wich is not required, so it’s basically a big waste of time that could’ve been used to create actual content and solve the problem.

Am i the only one who find this dumb?

Mmm . . . “dumb”, nah I don’t find it “dumb”.

Incredibly misaligned with what the players asked for, even for those wanting newer gear? Yes. A series of confusing choices for how it got released a little at a time with no apparent guidance for how? Yes. Unnecessary additions where it just doesn’t give an advantage great enough to be bothered worrying about? Yes. Overhyped on all sides for both how amazing it was and how much it breaks the game?

Very very much so.

Dumb isn’t quite right. I’d say more “effort better spent elsewhere or just shelved for another year until it matured and was complete, AND had compelling reasons to go for it other than ‘stats, yo’”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm . . . “dumb”, nah I don’t find it “dumb”.

Incredibly misaligned with what the players asked for, even for those wanting newer gear? Yes. A series of confusing choices for how it got released a little at a time with no apparent guidance for how? Yes. Unnecessary additions where it just doesn’t give an advantage great enough to be bothered worrying about? Yes. Overhyped on all sides for both how amazing it was and how much it breaks the game?

Very very much so.

Dumb isn’t quite right. I’d say more “effort better spent elsewhere or just shelved for another year until it matured and was complete, AND had compelling reasons to go for it other than ‘stats, yo’”.

It’s not about the release timeframe… And i will never tire to repeat that… It’s the fact that every single piece of Ascendand gear (witth the exception of the rings), came with literally zero new content to play in order to acquire them!
I mean, ok, GW2 is the groundbreaking, revolutionary, next generation MMO and blablabla (insert random “we are so awesome” blogpost quote), but really, every single MMO in the past, added new content along with new gear, so people would have something new to play while acquiring said gear… Wouldn’t have been better to just copy the old games, instead of going 100 original?

Valanga.5942:

People asked for content, asked for things to do in order to get that fun the devs said it would’ve be the engine of their game.
People got Ascendant grind. Wich is not required, so it’s basically a big waste of time that could’ve been used to create actual content and solve the problem.

Am i the only one who find this dumb?

People asking for content isn’t necessarily a good thing. I’ve played quite a few MMOs over the years and most of the ideas come from other MMOs. Devs need to be careful which ideas they decide to go with.

Someone is in full exotic and someone else full ascended both with the same profession and build and skill. Who would win in a fight?

If the answer is the one in ascended gear then there is a problem. It would mean, to stay competitive you would have to grind, that wouldn’t be a choice unless of course you chose not to be competitive. Which is what seems to be what the whole argument is about.

Azala Yar.7693:

Which is what seems to be what the whole argument is about.

Actually, the whole argument would be more like “Once the people who didn’t left already, will have all their Ascendant gear, provided they don’t die dored first, when they notice that there is nothing else new to do except their bi-weekly achivo grind, what will they do? Ask for more gear grind? Ask for content and get more gear grind? Leave since 2014 will be the year of the actual next generation of MMOs? Keep petting snow rabbits in Frostgorge Sounds while looking at the horizong and scream how much they thank ANet for that?”

Valanga.5942:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm . . . “dumb”, nah I don’t find it “dumb”.

Incredibly misaligned with what the players asked for, even for those wanting newer gear? Yes. A series of confusing choices for how it got released a little at a time with no apparent guidance for how? Yes. Unnecessary additions where it just doesn’t give an advantage great enough to be bothered worrying about? Yes. Overhyped on all sides for both how amazing it was and how much it breaks the game?

Very very much so.

Dumb isn’t quite right. I’d say more “effort better spent elsewhere or just shelved for another year until it matured and was complete, AND had compelling reasons to go for it other than ‘stats, yo’”.

It’s not about the release timeframe… And i will never tire to repeat that… It’s the fact that every single piece of Ascendand gear (witth the exception of the rings), came with literally zero new content to play in order to acquire them!
I mean, ok, GW2 is the groundbreaking, revolutionary, next generation MMO and blablabla (insert random “we are so awesome” blogpost quote), but really, every single MMO in the past, added new content along with new gear, so people would have something new to play while acquiring said gear… Wouldn’t have been better to just copy the old games, instead of going 100 original?

“Literally zero” new content?

- Ascended rings and backpieces came with Fractals. New content.
- Ascended necklaces came with Laurels and the Daily Achievement revamp. No new content.
- Ascended trinkets came with Guild Missions, from the bounties to challenges. New content.
- Ascended weapons came with the revamped Tequatl fight. Your mileage may vary on whether it counts as “new content”.
- Ascended armor came with Wintersday 2013. No new content, just a repeat of the last phase of Wintersday 2012.

Can’t agree with “literally zero new content”.

But for me, and I do make it clear elsewhere, the timeframe and method of release was the misstep with Ascended. It should have been released better instead of with very long staggered steps, and it should have initially come with a better acquirement system than it had.

In my opinion, if they had released Fractals as a random generated set of 3 plus a boss Fractal . . . THEN when Laurels were put out added “hard mode Fractals” with Agony and other assorted effects similar to HM Domain of Anguish? And the only difference between HM loot and NM loot would be getting two Bonus Rewards at the end randomly generated instead of one, all with the same loot chance?

Would have been amazing. Would have been in keeping with EOTN Dungeons, in fact.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Ascended rings and backpieces came with Fractals. New content.
- Ascended necklaces came with Laurels and the Daily Achievement revamp. No new content.
- Ascended trinkets came with Guild Missions, from the bounties to challenges. New content.
- Ascended weapons came with the revamped Tequatl fight. Your mileage may vary on whether it counts as “new content”.
- Ascended armor came with Wintersday 2013. No new content, just a repeat of the last phase of Wintersday 2012.

A truckload of small guilds would like to have a word with you about the Guild Missions being “new content”, since for them they may as well don’t even exist…

Valanga.5942:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Ascended rings and backpieces came with Fractals. New content.
- Ascended necklaces came with Laurels and the Daily Achievement revamp. No new content.
- Ascended trinkets came with Guild Missions, from the bounties to challenges. New content.
- Ascended weapons came with the revamped Tequatl fight. Your mileage may vary on whether it counts as “new content”.
- Ascended armor came with Wintersday 2013. No new content, just a repeat of the last phase of Wintersday 2012.

A truckload of small guilds would like to have a word with you about the Guild Missions being “new content”, since for them they may as well don’t even exist…

Well that’s not “literally zero new content” that’s “figuratively speaking, zero new content I could have done”. There’s a difference.

I guess my biggest problem is the huge deviation from what worked in Guild Wars 1. End game, BiS gear was easily aquired, after that it was all just prestige skins. The game was fun enough that people put in lots of time for those prestige items, but because they had no stat difference they were in no way required. Your reward for getting them was having them. The manifesto led many of us to believe that that philosophy was going to be continued in Guild Wars 2, and it hasn’t.

If you didn’t invest years playing GW1, and if that wasn’t one of the things that really stood out about it for you, then it probably doesn’t have the same impact.

Bait and switch. I sure wouldn’t have leveled 9 80’s had I known ascended would be the way it is. I am under no obligation to pay any more for the game and I certainly got more than my share of entertainment from the game for what I paid and the gems I bought. It is their game and they have a right to do what they want. I have the right to not support them anymore because of it. That is how you vote and it is the clearest message you can send if you don’t like their direction.

imsoenthused.1634:

I guess my biggest problem is the huge deviation from what worked in Guild Wars 1. End game, BiS gear was easily aquired, after that it was all just prestige skins. The game was fun enough that people put in lots of time for those prestige items, but because they had no stat difference they were in no way required. Your reward for getting them was having them. The manifesto led many of us to believe that that philosophy was going to be continued in Guild Wars 2, and it hasn’t.

If you didn’t invest years playing GW1, and if that wasn’t one of the things that really stood out about it for you, then it probably doesn’t have the same impact.

/thread.

imsoenthused.1634:

I guess my biggest problem is the huge deviation from what worked in Guild Wars 1. End game, BiS gear was easily aquired, after that it was all just prestige skins. The game was fun enough that people put in lots of time for those prestige items, but because they had no stat difference they were in no way required.

Once Hall of Monument Rewards got announced, I heard a lot in chatter about how it was now “required”. Just saying, it was prestige titles ONLY which those things were giving you in GW2 and there were people saying it was now being forced on them.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Once Hall of Monument Rewards got announced, I heard a lot in chatter about how it was now “required”. Just saying, it was prestige titles ONLY which those things were giving you in GW2 and there were people saying it was now being forced on them.

I would disagree with those people, although the rewards I got in GW2 from my Hall of Monuments are exactly the type of rewards I think we should have seen from end game achievements/grinding in this game, instead of ascended armor.

imsoenthused.1634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Once Hall of Monument Rewards got announced, I heard a lot in chatter about how it was now “required”. Just saying, it was prestige titles ONLY which those things were giving you in GW2 and there were people saying it was now being forced on them.

I would disagree with those people, although the rewards I got in GW2 from my Hall of Monuments are exactly the type of rewards I think we should have seen from end game achievements/grinding in this game, instead of ascended armor.

I think the Achievement Rewards we have with Zenith and such was a step towards that, though not quite fully realized yet. Hopefully future development can actually expand on that so I can get other achievement reward items stored in there. Like my Zephyr Sanctum model.

I would heartily support that idea

imsoenthused.1634:

I would heartily support that idea

I really wish . . .

Arenanet had the push behind their ideas which actually are well-received, instead of seeming hesitant to put any effort behind things in case they are badly received. I can understand why they might be gun shy after the first half of last year being pretty much complained against constantly.

But some ideas just needed some more love and tweaking, others were really well received and just sort of stopped somewhere.

Thedenofsin.7340:

imsoenthused.1634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm, no.

Ascended weapons aren’t required for me to fight the Shatterer. I am not wrong on this.

If they make a single bit of difference in how much damage you do, they are no longer prestige items, they are required. Failure to accept the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

Saying you aren’t required to have the highest tier item in the game is like arguing that you don’t have to bother leveling to the cap. The word that sums that up is “stupid”.

If it’s so true and obvious that ascended gear is required, then site some examples.
Prove it.

As far as we know, they’are the only viable way (excluding legendaries) to access to the vertical progression tha arenanet want to deliver in the upcoming years.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Thedenofsin.7340:

imsoenthused.1634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm, no.

Ascended weapons aren’t required for me to fight the Shatterer. I am not wrong on this.

If they make a single bit of difference in how much damage you do, they are no longer prestige items, they are required. Failure to accept the truth doesn’t make it any less true.

Saying you aren’t required to have the highest tier item in the game is like arguing that you don’t have to bother leveling to the cap. The word that sums that up is “stupid”.

If it’s so true and obvious that ascended gear is required, then site some examples.
Prove it.

As far as we know, they’are the only viable way (excluding legendaries) to access to the vertical progression tha arenanet want to deliver in the upcoming years.

Er . . .

Citation needed.

yeah. only ascended gear can be infused. and the most likely the progression will be in infusions.

hall of monuments is totally different. i feel a bit disappointed at it, since i never tried gw1.
but as there wasnt even the slightest improvement in stats, except for titles and skins, it’s just a locked cosmetic content.

ascended? totally different
even 1point in any gear stat, is a progression, and strongly recommended.
if you care or not about that progression, or if for now it isn t so evident in combat except for fotm, is a personal decision.
but still what i wear on my chars isn t BiS, the fundamental “target” of any mmo player. a target supposed to be acquired few hours after hitting 80 when bought the game

Kevan.8912:

yeah. only ascended gear can be infused. and the most likely the progression will be in infusions.

This. And here’s the kicker: Even if you have Legendary gear, you wouldn’t be immune to this grind!

morrolan.9608:

VOLKON.1290:

The reason ascended was introduced makes perfect sense in my opinion. They simply didn’t expect exotics to become so plentiful and easy to get.

This is incorrect and has been proven to be so by quotes in this thread.

No it isn’t.

Volkon is right.
They introduced Ascended saying that exos were far too easy to obtain (or at least said so, if they had other reasons they never communicated them).

It does not make sense since exos (BIS) were supposed to be like that, but well… Their game their rules I guess

BeoErgon.9107:

Volkon is right.
They introduced Ascended saying that exos were far too easy to obtain (or at least said so, if they had other reasons they never communicated them).

It does not make sense since exos (BIS) were supposed to be like that, but well… Their game their rules I guess

I think originally it was working more or less as intended, but people got them so quickly then were complaining about nothing more to shoot for gear-wise. (Not everyone has fully grasped the idea of working towards skins.) Ascended gear appeases to a degree many of the players that still seek gear progression yet does so in a subtle enough way (stat-wise) to not have any real impact on the game or the content. The time sink is fairly extensive, and when you consider alts people will be working on ascended sets for quite some time. By then new skins or ascended sets can be introduced with no actual stat increase or we could see Legendary gear (again with no stat increase, yet with added perks).

VOLKON.1290:

VOLKON.1290:

The reason ascended was introduced makes perfect sense in my opinion. They simply didn’t expect exotics to become so plentiful and easy to get.

morrolan.9608:

This is incorrect and has been proven to be so by quotes in this thread.

No it isn’t.

Well, by their own words, they intended for exotics to be plentiful and easy to get. They really shouldn’t have been surprised by the fact they succeeded. Unless, of course, they never wanted to follow on their original stated intentions.

So, either the reason you quoted about why they introduced ascended doesn’t really make sense, or their stated and real design plans were significantly different.

Neither of those is a good thing, but the second option is actually far worse.

Astralporing.1957:

VOLKON.1290:

VOLKON.1290:

The reason ascended was introduced makes perfect sense in my opinion. They simply didn’t expect exotics to become so plentiful and easy to get.

morrolan.9608:

This is incorrect and has been proven to be so by quotes in this thread.

No it isn’t.

Well, by their own words, they intended for exotics to be plentiful and easy to get. They really shouldn’t have been surprised by the fact they succeeded. Unless, of course, they never wanted to follow on their original stated intentions.

So, either the reason you quoted about why they introduced ascended doesn’t really make sense, or their stated and real design plans were significantly different.

Neither of those is a good thing, but the second option is actually far worse.

They created Guild Wars, where there wasn’t a cry for more powerful gear and there were already time sinks in place for new looks. You got max power gear at level 20 and prettied yourselves up from there. I don’t think they expected such an outcry for an additional tier, more power. So they took care of that crowd the most elegant way they could while still sticking with the soul of the game… add one last tier, slightly more powerful and a lot of work to get. Many people are quite giddily working away as ascended (some having full sets already I think…) and there’s no treadmill introduced. People have their time sinks for nominal progression and it doesn’t affect the game overall by out-balancing content, PvP, etc.

The mistake they may have made, in my opinion with limited knowledge, was underestimating a certain populations drive to seek out more power. Adding ascended gives a great place to begin spreading out comfortably in a horizontally progressive path now without breaking the heart of the game. They addressed a need some people have and did so brilliantly.

VOLKON.1290:

They addressed a need some people have and did so brilliantly.

well, did so brilliant that people who asked for a treadmill feel that ascended are too much grind for nothing, and people who asked for horizontaly-only progression feel betrayed because of a new BiS.
yeah. really a brilliant move

Kevan.8912:

VOLKON.1290:

They addressed a need some people have and did so brilliantly.

well, did so brilliant that people who asked for a treadmill feel that ascended are too much grind for nothing, and people who asked for horizontaly-only progression feel betrayed because of a new BiS.
yeah. really a brilliant move

You’ll never be able to please everyone, and the ones not pleased will complain a lot louder than the people that are. Basic observation of life. I’m a horizontal kind of guy myself and nothing about ascended to me feels even remotely betraying in any fashion. One of these months I’ll get my first piece, no rush, and the game goes on.

People asks for anything.

Few people complained of vertical progression and they clearly bought the wrong game…..

Anet didn t listen that monirity, they just found the easiets way to keep people playing without introducing real content.

Ascended is the worst type of vertical progression

It doesn t have skins mostly (everyone trasmute them) and are just numbers, since them they also buffed mobs and bosses so the trendmill could work.

A full ascended character plays exactòy like a full exotic used to play.

Its a full exotic character that got obsolete, instead.
An old trick that is easily explained by the word treadmill….if you run you stand still, if you stop you fall behind.