Guild Wars 2

I was going to ask something regarding elite specs, but after browsing the fallout of recent happenings, all I can say is that I think I pity the new players when they decide to get a full account and forum access…

… only to find themselves being assaulted any time they use the forums.

Over the last few weeks, I’ve watched nothing but hostility and insults slung left and right in debates of weapons, reveals, and even play styles of whether one mode of play should take precedence over another. And for what? So we can all … I don’t know, play a game?

We can’t even seem to decide which professions or mechanics need work without insulting people who play them.

Look, I get it. Our elite specs aren’t quite what we envisioned, and veteran players once more feel left in the cold with seeing things being announced that the core game is now Free(mium). I equally feel sorry for those who probably got into the game a few months ago when the Heart of Thorns hype started back up with PAX and such and get a nice fat “Thanks for the $60” but recently as their reward.

We’ve a lot to be upset about — heck, even the Living Story is still a complete mess and there are dozens of skins we can’t unlock anymore (not by playing, in many cases), to say nothing of bugs left unaddressed for months or years — but what happened here?

Half the threads I see are players attacking one another over the stupidest of things.

So I guess all I’m left to do now is wonder what went so horribly wrong.

(I’m sure when I look back on this thread later, I’ll regret it, assuming it doesn’t get locked for derailing before I do)

Well said.

Because the people who tend to frequent the forums are the “hardcore” veterans, who have very little patience and empathy. But that’s okay, because they make up for the lack of those traits with a bloated sense of entitlement and a very loud whine.

I think its funny that people think this community is so great. These forums are very toxic and its something I’ve seen since the game launched. The second you post anything you’ll get about 10 insulting messages from “not this again” to “I’m tired of seeing posts like this” to people constantly disagreeing with everything you say no matter how neutral or rational your argument is just for the sake of disagreeing with you.

or my favorite how they nitpick every single word you write and micro analyze every aspect of anything you say, in order to find one discrepancy which then somehow invalidates your entire argument no matter what it may be.

Meh. Official forums are nigh ALWAYS a den for the dissatisfied. I like to recite a bit of advice I learned from a Development head when this sort of topic comes up,

“If you were to judge every game by its official forum, you’d reach the conclusion that every game in the world is utter trash and should never be played by anyone.”

anet should introduce a white knight badge/fanboy/hardcore elitist tag for show beside those ‘rigorous’ forum posters so that we know who to avoid/ignore and such

I come here for a good laugh, I go to reddit for real discussion.

Weren’t we telling ourselves how nice we all are about 10mins ago? You know to keep out the F2P scum?

BIGHARSHNESS.3510:

I come here for a good laugh, I go to reddit for real discussion.

I come here for a different perspective. Then go back to reddit when people inevitably start stating their opinions as fact

Good post OP. Unfortunately the forum bugged and I can’t find a +1 button on it.

so: +1

OP, you made your post a question so you can’t get a +1. Too bad you are right on the money.

There is a lot of steaming that needed venting from players who, because of the focus on developing the expansion has left the current state of the game stagnate other than a couple of feature updates, which didn’t go over well either, and they needed to lash out at anyone.

I’m told that my posts come across angry at times but I’m frustrated by players who seem to not be having a fun time but force themselves to stay. Why? Take a break at least if you don’t want to leave but feeling like you have to force yourself to farm Silverwastes and hating it doesn’t seem like fun and this is a game, it’s purpose is to be enjoyable entertainment, not a masochistic daily ritual.

Honestly I don’t think there’s anything exceptional about that. I’ve been part of a lot of online communities and you always get arguments over the most trivial things, whether it’s balance in a game, which songs ‘deserve’ to have been on an album 25 years ago or which movie has the best tag line.

I know of one Internet community entirely devoted to people rescuing and rehabilitating abandoned baby animals where certain people won’t even speak to each other because they’ve had screaming arguments over which brand of puppy milk is best. I think it’s safe to say they’re all good people and there’s nothing wrong with them or their community, but when you’re talking about something you’re passionate about feelings tend to run high and then you add the anonymity of responding to words onba screen instead of a person and its not surprising people get worked up.

I don’t get it. Whats the complaint? People on forums are sometimes negative and complain about things? STOP THE PRESSES!
The point is that humans prefer to remember the negative aspects more then the positive ones. There are great, creative and friendly threads/posts, people just don’t complain about ’em in a lot of minor threads.

Simply put, toxic things get more hype then the nice ones. Most people might know this when entering a forum and some don’t.

Ehhh what ragmon said, people tend to remember or talk about bad news and experiences rather than the good, usually because the bad have more impact. Plus this community seems really resistant to change compared to most. Don’t let it get to ha though, the forums are mainly just that, complainers and disgruntled customers, though you will from time to time find good genuine feedback.

Honestly I think a surge of new players is just what the game needs right now to break the menotous nature it’s developed. Heck, ran Shadow Behemoth tonight and had a heck of a lot of fun helping the new players. And they actually went and destroyed the portals instead of just AFK, had to revive some people, explain the mechanics a bit. Was nice. Dungeons might be a bit of a pain, or might not, guess it depends on whether you just wanna stack or not. Find it’s better whem running with new people to not stack, keeps the aggro spread out and gives everyone a chance to heal.

Don’t worry. F2p players are used to toxic. We built up a hard outer shell over time. I’m here pay not f2p but I lived the f2p life for a long time. GW2 is one of the nicer game communities. Thanks to people like you who care *grins."

People have opinions sometimes they differ. It is that simple.

BIGHARSHNESS.3510:

I go to reddit for real discussion.

gr8 b8 m8, there’s nothing but cancer and ebin may mays xD on Leddit

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I think its funny that people think this community is so great. These forums are very toxic and its something I’ve seen since the game launched. The second you post anything you’ll get about 10 insulting messages from “not this again” to “I’m tired of seeing posts like this” to people constantly disagreeing with everything you say no matter how neutral or rational your argument is just for the sake of disagreeing with you.

or my favorite how they nitpick every single word you write and micro analyze every aspect of anything you say, in order to find one discrepancy which then somehow invalidates your entire argument no matter what it may be.

Don’t forget personal experience, people will manage to find a way to argue your own personal experience somehow followed up with “if I can’t do it, no one can” logic.

the gw2 forums are a joke. not to be taken seriously. this isn’t a proper forum, its a bulletin board/wall for players to yell at. if they wanted real feedback and a proper tool for the community to use, they’d have more permission to the OP, and sub threads on topics so ppl can build conversations and provide proper, constructive feedback to the devs and the rest of the community. at the beginning, anet (colins) recognized that the forums is kitten, and they argue that they’d rather spend company resources on the game rather than fixing the forums. what that means, is that our feedback isn’t worth investing in. if you want a proper discussion on any subject, go to reddit.

This community isn’t too bad. I’ve seen ones that are much, MUCH worse. For example, I haven’t acquired a single stalker or hatescriber, and there aren’t players with 30 different account names that are used to troll people. The forums actually look down (for the most part) against hacking and exploits. Barring some exception, you’ll get more serious answers to any question than non-serious ones. People don’t use the forums as a medium to break international law. The moderating staff are only categorically liberal instead of capital L zealots, or conservative fascist, or worse yet the trolls or criminals themselves. The moderators aren’t too lazy, either, since whenever I report someone actions are swift.

I’ve been to places where none of that is true.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This community isn’t too bad. I’ve seen ones that are much, MUCH worse.

Getting called a “scrub” and being told to “learn to play” when I was level 5 in League. Yeah there are a helluva lot worse communities out there!!

Me personally, I’m at the point where I’m not sure if the devs actually do value our feedback, or whether their PR really is as bad as it seems, or both. I would love to enjoy this game as much as I used to, but there’s nothing left but skins (until HoT was announced), and very little information on the content that I do actually want coming back (pls devs, I need SAB).

When I started coming to the forums I actually enjoyed my time here, but most of the time I spent regarding gw2 was in-game. Nowadays it’s the other way around. I’ve also grown extremely tired of people not bothering to read threads before posting, especially when a whole bunch of people have already said and/or rebutted whatever it is they’re trying to say. Or people who post suggestions for absolutely ludicrously stupid changes just because they want the game to change, not because something is broken or horribly wrong.

I honestly don’t know how gw2 can be dubbed the best community though. Between PvP and dungeon running (admittedly the worst two crowds I get around) I’ve grown my block list exponentially. For some reason these people like to think that the anonymity makes it ok for them to abuse people for whatever reason – and this is across the entire internet. I think that the competitive side of these can get too intense for people like myself (for instance I’ve seen a guildie and good friend of mine go from neutral/silly to seriously raging just because someone on his team did one single thing wrong) who just play for fun without playing to win. Yes, winning is fun, but winning isn’t everything. Hell, you even get rewarded in PvP if you lose (albeit less than if you win), so there’s really no reason to be hell-bent on winning 100% of matches (unless you’re in a tourny, then I’d totally understand).

Out of the handful of MMOs I have played, I actually found ESO to have the best community. I can only think of two incidents where I had to report and/or block someone just for being a kitten. Here in gw2 within the first year (which is about the same time I played ESO) it’s been easily into the hundreds, even though I didn’t PvP or speed clear dungeons then.

fluffdragon.1523:

So I guess all I’m left to do now is wonder what went so horribly wrong.

The community doesn’t trust ArenaNet anymore. Why would it? ArenaNet has given us plenty of reasons to not believe in them. Just to give a few examples:

• ArenaNet lost control over their own forum. They undid the contract with the company that designed and mantained this forum, which is why they cannot add new features or fix bugs (notice how the “forum bug” posts, correcting a bug in which the forum stops showing posts when a topic reaches a new page, are still around; the forum search is still broken, too). Do you honestly think Blizzard would ever have allowed that to happen, much less allowed their own forum to not belong to them for years? That’s how much ArenaNet cares about what people in their own official forum say.

• ArenaNet overpromises and underdelivers. Want one example? “We’ll begin regularly adding new skills and traits to the game”, “We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!”, “On top of this, you’ll also see new legendary weapons and new types of legendary gear in 2013”. None of that ever happened. Later they said they would add to the game a new fun and interesting way for people to unlock traits, which led to a massive outcry and years later they eventually overhauled the entire system (again). They also said they would make the initial player experience more “fun”, and the result was the hated NPE update, which made the beginning of the game a torture.

• They keep finding small ways in which to screw their players. The SAB Continue Coin stands as another example of this.

• “Oh, but they gave us so much content for free!”. Really? Where is it? Can you play Living World Season 1 right now? Can you play SAB? How about the Queen’s Festival? Oh, you can play through Living World season 2 if you – guess what? – pay for it of if you happened to be around at the time. The amount of content they have really added to the game is minuscule. And what they have addedd… Take a look at Silverwastes: it’s a copy-&-paste map. The exact same fortresses with the exact same events copied 4 times over the map, with a world boss, and that’s it. If the same team had designed Queensdale, it would be just a small map with 4 copies of the centaur camp and the Shadow Behemoth fight. “Oh, a lot of people play in the Silverwastes!” – sure, it’s the most profitable place where to farm in the game. It’s the single world boss that is not under a timer and that gives full rewards whenever players kill it. This will bite ArenaNet’s behind when people realize that farming it is more profitable than farming HoT, and leave the expansion maps half empty.

• And meanwhile, while we are at a content draught, and while we get no new skin in game, ArenaNet continues to release new skins at the Gem Store monthly. HoT will come with new armor sets – TWO - and meanwhile they have innundated the Gem Store with new outfits. This proves what are ArenaNet’s priorities.

And so on and so on.

This community is wrong because that’s how ArenaNet built it.

Welcome to the internet, you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

In all seriousness what you’ve described is nothing new, much less unique to GW2’s community. A lot of people behave extremely poorly when given anonymity and enjoy little to no real consequences for their actions, this is true whether someone is telling you how to play, who to vote for, or even what to eat.

Test.8734:

…. Snipped to save some space, but +100 on the entire post.

This;

• And meanwhile, while we are at a content draught, and while we get no new skin in game, ArenaNet continues to release new skins at the Gem Store monthly. HoT will come with new armor sets – TWO - and meanwhile they have innundated the Gem Store with new outfits. This proves what are ArenaNet’s priorities.

And so on and so on.

This community is wrong because that’s how ArenaNet built it.

As long as the hype over released items/skins in the Gem Store among players will make them forget game-breaking bugs, the company is going to continue with this.
Just look at the gold-to-gem exchange rate.

It’s alot cheaper to hire an intern 3-d artist that doesn’t know first thing about clippin’ issues – than a programmer to correct bugs. Besides, fixing bugs won’t bring in any money at all….

Test.8734:

• ArenaNet overpromises and underdelivers. Want one example? “We’ll begin regularly adding new skills and traits to the game”, “We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!”, “On top of this, you’ll also see new legendary weapons and new types of legendary gear in 2013”. None of that ever happened. Later they said they would add to the game a new fun and interesting way for people to unlock traits, which led to a massive outcry and years later they eventually overhauled the entire system (again). They also said they would make the initial player experience more “fun”, and the result was the hated NPE update, which made the beginning of the game a torture.

This community is wrong because that’s how ArenaNet built it.

The community is wrong because the community is wrong.

See above. You claim “overpromises” of things not promised, and were in fact expressly stated would possibly change depending on resources allocation and available time.

If you want an example of why Arena.net ignores it’s forums, right there is Exhibit 1-A.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I think its funny that people think this community is so great.

Forums are not equal to the ingame community. The great community you have
mostly ingame in the open world.

The frequent forum posters are not ‘the Community’. Only a tiny part of it (0,01 percent or less). The so called vocal minority (just like on reddit etc.). Most people just play and never come to the forums.

Test.8734:

fluffdragon.1523:

So I guess all I’m left to do now is wonder what went so horribly wrong.

• ArenaNet lost control over their own forum. They undid the contract with the company that designed and mantained this forum, which is why they cannot add new features or fix bugs (notice how the “forum bug” posts, correcting a bug in which the forum stops showing posts when a topic reaches a new page, are still around; the forum search is still broken, too). Do you honestly think Blizzard would ever have allowed that to happen, much less allowed their own forum to not belong to them for years?

Really? Not to be rude, but it is hard to believe that a commercial company, or better, a software house don’t control his own forum…
Any links/proof, pls?

chemiclord.3978:

See above. You claim “overpromises” of things not promised, and were in fact expressly stated would possibly change depending on resources allocation and available time.

See OP, this is the kind of player ArenaNet wants.

Right now, ArenaNet is saying: “We will release HoT with next to no content, we know, BUT! We will add more later, we promise! We will release HoT with just 4 maps but we will add more later, we will release HoT with only 3 legendaries but we will add more later, we will release HoT with only one third of a single raid but we will add more later!”.

And later, when they fail to implement even half of the things they’re promising, they want players who will say, “But ArenaNet never promised anything! Stop being entitled!”.

That’s why this community is so bad.

It really depends on how the post begins. When the OP starts of insulting ANet staff instead of critiquing a mechanic, many of the responses are hostile. When the thread begins with a clear opinion supported by examples, the responses are typically constructive.

Test.8734:

chemiclord.3978:

See above. You claim “overpromises” of things not promised, and were in fact expressly stated would possibly change depending on resources allocation and available time.

See OP, this is the kind of player ArenaNet wants.

Right now, ArenaNet is saying: “We will release HoT with next to no content, we know, BUT! We will add more later, we promise! We will release HoT with just 4 maps but we will add more later, we will release HoT with only 3 legendaries but we will add more later, we will release HoT with only one third of a single raid but we will add more later!”.

And later, when they fail to implement even half of the things they’re promising, they want players who will say, “But ArenaNet never promised anything! Stop being entitled!”.

That’s why this community is so bad.

Okay… so… wait… first you complain that they overpromise… now you’re complaining that they haven’t promised enough?

Could you make up your mind, please?

I mean, the facts are pretty simple. They didn’t promise ANYTHING in their 2013 roadmap. That you decided they did is YOUR problem, not THEIRS. Ya want a broken promise? The entire Ascended debacle is that. They directly went against earlier statements and produced an entirely new level of gear (and their rationalization as to how they didn’t REALLY backtrack was flimsy at best).

If you want to take Arena.net to task for breaking their word, actually citing examples of them breaking their word (and such examples exist, I can assure you) would be helpful, rather than bitter tantrums stemming from twisted words and intent.

But I get you though. This entire, “We’ll only release part of the content on release, and add to it later on” simply isn’t done… well… except by every other MMO in the world. But yeah, other than everyone else, what Arena.net is doing is unprecedented and unacceptable.

I mean, Warlords of Draenor launched with all of five zones and one raid hub. And that’s with the resources Blizzard had available to them. Considering that Arena.net has probably a fraction of that, coming out with 4 maps and one raid zone is actually pretty kitten impressive.

Game development is getting drastically more expensive with every year, and gamers are doggedly insistent on not paying one penny more than they have for the last decade. Something has to give… either we need to be willing to pony up, or we’re going to get less.

May I remind you… this is what the players claimed they wanted. They WANTED the traditional expansion model. This is what players like you begged for, whined for, threatened for… and now that we’ve got it… well, we’re still whining and raging.

The community on the forums is bad because the community is bad.

ANet dropped a LOT of info yesterday, some of which is uncertain.

Some of us are concerned about stuff like that.

Zackie.8923:

anet should introduce a white knight badge/fanboy/hardcore elitist tag for show beside those ‘rigorous’ forum posters so that we know who to avoid/ignore and such

This actually should be ok

The Tee Why.4807:

ANet dropped a LOT of info yesterday, some of which is uncertain.

Some of us are concerned about stuff like that.

So we again face the conundrum of dealing with MMO gamers. They get livid the moment they perceive promises are broken… and with the same breath are demanding more promises.

You can’t have it both ways. If you want all the information you can, you have to accept that a lot of what they tell you is subject to change. If you want concrete, confirmed information, then you have to accept that there’s going to be very little you hear with a lot of advance notice.

That’s how game development is, and it’s hardly an issue with Arena.net. Management and direction in kitten near every game studio is a significant issue, usually because game development is in such high turnover due to poor pay and working conditions that management and directors change on a yearly basis if not less… a direct consequence of gamers demanding cutting edge while refusing to pony up for increasing costs.

Let’s take the demands for Arena.net to update their entire engine to Direct X12. That is a TREMENDOUS undertaking (for example, Blizzard released HD renders with Warlords of Draenor… a task they STARTED on while Wrath of the Lich King was still in development), one that would require most hands on deck for a couple years at the very least, and a LOT of money put into what would largely be a minute upgrade for the bulk of players… but gamers certainly aren’t going to pay for it, and seem to think it’s a matter of just adding in lines of code rather than kitten near an entire rewrite of the engine.

That’s not “white-knighting.” That’s understanding the limitations that game studios have to deal with and accepting it, even if its not ideal or could be better. There’s a TON of problems with game development as a whole, and Arena.net falls into a good many of those pitfalls. But with the current development environment, there’s little that can be done to fix them… and changing the environment would require a great deal of latitude (and an increased price tag) to implement.

I don’t see players getting on board any time soon. It’s likely going to take another crash before both developers and customers decide, “Ya know… maybe we all need to do things differently.”

https://de.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ivcdn/this_community_is_amazing_heres_shaemoor_where/

chemiclord.3978:

I mean, Warlords of Draenor launched with all of five zones and one raid hub. And that’s with the resources Blizzard had available to them. Considering that Arena.net has probably a fraction of that, coming out with 4 maps and one raid zone is actually pretty kitten impressive.

See OP, this is again more of what ArenaNet wants.

Players who say, “Blizzard has a lot more resources than ArenaNet, you can’t possibly hold them to the same standards!”.

And then turn around to say, “Asking $50 for the expansion is fine, Blizzard does the same thing!”.

Some players need to learn they cannot have it both ways.

fluffdragon.1523:

What is wrong with this community?

USK 12

Test.8734:

chemiclord.3978:

I mean, Warlords of Draenor launched with all of five zones and one raid hub. And that’s with the resources Blizzard had available to them. Considering that Arena.net has probably a fraction of that, coming out with 4 maps and one raid zone is actually pretty kitten impressive.

See OP, this is again more of what ArenaNet wants.

Players who say, “Blizzard has a lot more resources than ArenaNet, you can’t possibly hold them to the same standards!”.

And then turn around to say, “Asking $50 for the expansion is fine, Blizzard does the same thing!”.

Some players need to learn they cannot have it both ways.

And some players need to understand that in one case it’s a company’s total income which impacts the amount of resources and the other it’s the unit price of the product the market expects and accepts.

Test.8734:

See OP, this is again more of what ArenaNet wants.

Players who say, “Blizzard has a lot more resources than ArenaNet, you can’t possibly hold them to the same standards!”.

And then turn around to say, “Asking $50 for the expansion is fine, Blizzard does the same thing!”.

Some players need to learn they cannot have it both ways.

If you are going to continue to (perhaps willfully) misinterpret what I’m saying, there’s little further discussion to be had.

It seems odd to rake Arena.net over the coals for the content they’ve confirmed for Heart of Thorns when all of their peers (some of which with far more resources to work with) haven’t had much more robust offerings at the start of recent expansions. Heavensward for FFXIV is very similar in that same regard. A smallish start right out of the box and building up from there.

If no one in the industry is able or willing to meet your expectations, then perhaps you need to ask yourself, “Maybe… my expectations are unreasonable?”

Behellagh.1468:

Test.8734:

chemiclord.3978:

I mean, Warlords of Draenor launched with all of five zones and one raid hub. And that’s with the resources Blizzard had available to them. Considering that Arena.net has probably a fraction of that, coming out with 4 maps and one raid zone is actually pretty kitten impressive.

See OP, this is again more of what ArenaNet wants.

Players who say, “Blizzard has a lot more resources than ArenaNet, you can’t possibly hold them to the same standards!”.

And then turn around to say, “Asking $50 for the expansion is fine, Blizzard does the same thing!”.

Some players need to learn they cannot have it both ways.

And some players need to understand that in one case it’s a company’s total income which impacts the amount of resources and the other it’s the unit price of the product the market expects and accepts.

Uhuh.

The “market expects”? How much was FFXIV’s expansion again? And how much was The Old Republic’s expansion, too?

People compare ArenaNet’s price with Blizzard’s price because everyone else has a lower price. That’s the supreme irony in those who turn around and say “but you cannot compare ArenaNet with Blizzard, the latter has a lot more resources!”.

And as far as the market “accepting” HoT’s price, well, I have some very long topics in this forum showing you otherwise.

See, OP? It’s not possible to defend ArenaNet using the truth. Unless you rely on excuses and half-truths, you cannot really defend what they have been doing.

The thing is, ArenaNet hoped this forum would be their PR. That a potential player would come here, see only people praising the game, and then decide to buy GW2.

When faced with angry players asking ArenaNet to account for their many mistakes, the studio is incredibly happy to see players willing to defend them, even if those players are disruptive and basically twist facts in order to try to make a point.

Under this permissive disruption, it’s no surprise the community is as bad as it is. Some players want ArenaNet to answer for their mistakes, while a few act as if the devs were helpless kids in distress and hurry to their rescue, regardless of how answering the players’ demands isn’t their place or within their hability.

That’s why you get the community this game has. Those who are right want ArenaNet to fix their game, but at the same time ArenaNet allows those who defend them to be disruptive and to hide their heads in the sand pretending everything is perfect.

Test.8734:

The community doesn’t trust ArenaNet anymore. Why would it? ArenaNet has given us plenty of reasons to not believe in them.

QFT. +1

Test.8734:

See, OP? It’s not possible to defend ArenaNet using the truth. Unless you rely on excuses and half-truths, you cannot really defend what they have been doing.

The thing is, ArenaNet hoped this forum would be their PR. That a potential player would come here, see only people praising the game, and then decide to buy GW2.

When faced with angry players asking ArenaNet to account for their many mistakes, the studio is incredibly happy to see players willing to defend them, even if those players are disruptive and basically twist facts in order to try to make a point.

Under this permissive disruption, it’s no surprise the community is as bad as it is. Some players want ArenaNet to answer for their mistakes, while a few act as if the devs were helpless kids in distress and hurry to their rescue, regardless of how answering the players’ demands isn’t their place or within their hability.

Man, you’re on a roll. Again, +1.

Defend Arena.net? They don’t need me to do that. Which is why I don’t. They’ve made plenty of missteps and backtracked on plenty of things (the current mastery system stems from several horrible missteps with the original trait system, for crying out loud).

The problem I have is that fans like you invoke the wrong reasons for your distrust. And yes, that matters. Using the wrong process to reach the right conclusion is a matter of chance, not an indication of sound thinking. It’s like looking at a tiger, and saying, “It has stripes, therefore it’s a tiger.” Even though you’re right, you’re still stupid.

And from there, once you discover the RIGHT reasons for your distrust, you’ll notice that it’s hardly only Arena.net that displays those flaws. It’s a systemic problem with MMO development (and to varying degrees game development as a whole). A lot of fans talk about how awesome FFXIV is right now… and it’s as if they forget that SquareEnix botched that game so horribly out of the gate that they literally had to rip it all up and start over.

And yes, their fans were just as irate and unforgiving as the dissatisfied here. Gamers possess many qualities, and another one of them is incredibly short memories.

I’m not terribly worried about the decisions Arena.net (or ANY game developer for that matter) makes simply because the solution, as I see it, is one that cannot be implemented because gamers will overwhelmingly refuse to hold up their end (either by accepting less than the absolutely top of the line experience or pay more for that top of the line experience).

And so, in that regard, I also don’t blame Arena.net or any developer for the environment of their forums. The community is more than capable of being unreasonable kittens completely of their own merits.

In some countries, proving others wrong on the internet is the national pastime.

you should understand something, OP. those who vocalize on the forums are a small minority compared to those who play the game.

edit: not to say the forum users don’t play the game, but you get it.

I mean… the Watchwork Mining Pick… the initial attempt at “revamping” the gem → gold exchange… the trait capture system… good God are there so many examples of Arena.net borking things completely contrary to earlier stated promises and intent.

But no, fans are locked like a pit bull on the precursor scavenger hunt (which was never a promise and never stated as one). It makes no sense to me.

Every game forum is this way, don’t flatter yourselves thinking this one is any different.

I remember my first time on a forum, too.