Guild Wars 2

First of all – I am writing this purely out of boredom, I don’t expect you to accept my point(s) of view NOR do I insist of giving me explanation why I am wrong. So if you don’t like what I am about to say, you may as well go to another thread.

Hello. I don’t think the developers will care to see my thread, but I just wanted to share what bothered me.
Me and few friends were very excited before the game was released. Then we started playing, enjoying it a lot. Then, little by little, the game flaws started to show up and one by one we stopped playing. As a seasoned veteran in the MMO games I think I have enough experience to be able to judge properly and give suggestions to what might be improved/removed/changed so here are some things I want to talk about:

- Crafting system – crafting should not meant to be a leveling alternative. It is there as a foundation of economy, it is there to give people purpose and to make them log in every day to gather materials to craft stuff, which they will sell, equip or gift. Also, a crafter should not be almighty, it will be good for the economy and for the comunity to have materials and components crafted by other professions.

- Grouping and socializing. One thing many other MMOs have failed at, is to make a game, which encourages you to group up and meet new people. One of the reasons WoW became what it is today, is because of the many such quests and events. Here in Guild Wars you are not required to group up with people, because there is no need, you neither get bonus xp, nor bonus gold, nor bonus loot. You can just stick with few random people, attack what they are attacking and then go and loot it. Also, there are not big groups (a.k.a. Raids) meant for more than 5 people.

- Open World PVP – Yet another thing which blasted WoW to the unreachable top where it is for many years. To some this may seem unnecessary, the fear of getting killed at any one moment and that’s ok – there were servers with PVP Off. For the rest of them, this was the biggest fun an MMO could give – always staying alert of not getting attacked, the pleasure of finding an enemy player and kill him, to gather a huge group and attack an enemy settlement, village, or even the capital city. These are one of the things that create unforgettable moments and memories, the messed up chat, the frustration, the disorganization, the fail, the succes… You will find none of these here by the way.

- Role-Playing – There are people who most enjoy being able to roleplay, to give their character personal story, to create funny events, to have their own house, to sit in a tavern and tell stories or just drink until they all pass out. This is poorly implemented here, I mean, you can’t even sit on a chair…

- Player/Player interaction – Why I am unable to give my in-game friend half a meter away a Trade request, is beyond me… A very basic thing which developer should first implement in their project called MMORPG, is missing here… Also why I am unable to duel people? If someone doesnt wish to be dueled, then ok, give them the option to decline Duel Requests. But for the other people this is a very fun time killer, to sharpen skills with friendly fellows, understanding the mechanic of a certain skill, or just for the rumble.

- Casual activities – If I may call them such. This would include fishing, cooking (this should not be a major profession, or as they are called here – disciplines), farming mobs for materials, playing the auction house (a.k.a. Trading Post), more seasonal events…
No need to explain fishing, you just sit somewhere cozy, and start fishing for food, for loot or for achivements.
About the cooking, in my opinion it should be a secondary profession, just like in WOW, because… well, I can’t think of some big world-turning-reasons, but why not?
Farming mobs for materials. As I understand there is a very stupid and poorly implemented system in the game right now, that somehow forbids you from doing this… Why are they punishing us, the honest players, because of the bots, still there is now answer.
There are books written, for the WoW’s Auctuion House, and the way you can make money out of it without even going out of the city. The Trading Post here is not very good made in my oppinion, and its interface is horrible.

- Interface customization – As I understand, the developers have came out with a very clever statement, they wanted us to play the game, not the UI…. Well dear sirs, what if I don’t like the UI? I don’t know if you have a psychologist there to explain you about the human natures and minds, but every person have different tastes, which translated means that not everyone will like your interface. Yet another thing WoW made brilliantly and GW failed at – having a big community of modders and programmers which to create add-ons for every man’s taste.

- The traveling system – Maybe I am just saying this because I am an old school gamer, but this waypoint travel through the whole beautiful world is much more than boring. It kills the immersion, it kills the sense of being in big world. I don’t care if there are mounts or not, but there could’ve been at least some alternative methods for traveling – ships, carriages, wagons, zepelins, submarines even, whatever….. Anything that will give more authentic feeling than being in an actual world, rather than some combat gamefield where the goal is just to go quickly to point B from point A.
Just as a wise man once said, the fun is in the traveling itself, not the final destination.

- The Endgame concept – A big mistakes, many have made, and many will make, is trying to understand this animal called “Endgame”. If you ask me, this is exactly the problem.
A game should not be all about the game at the max level, it should be about having what to do at all the levels and not being rushed to go to the max level as quick as possible. See WoW – there were dungeons with cool loot, which encouraged you to do them many times. Then finally when you were good equipped and armored you could go to the bracketed PvP Battlegrounds and be the master of your level.
Yet still, there must be more things to do at max level, but THEY SHOULD NOT BE only PvP and PvE. There should be more casual activities as I have written above ^

- Being distinctive and untouchable – I didn’t knew how to say it in few words, but let me explain. In the real world, there are poor, not so poor, middle-class, rich, and extremely rich people. Some of them don’t like to look like the rest of the people, and they want to stand out of the crowd. Just like in a game, there should be distinctiveness between a casual gamer and a hardcore one. Meaning, the casual gamers and those who don’t have time to play should not be allowed to easily receive the rewards and loots which one hardcore and long-time playing person would have achieved. After all, this is an MMORPG, it is meant to be time-sucking.

Those are all the things I can think of now, if you came this far, I salute you.
Once again, please, if you are here to tell me why I am wrong, don’t bother.
If you are here to discuss those flaws I have pointed, you are welcome.

TL;DR – Go troll somewhere else.

I didn’t stop playing. Also why do all of your points always refer back to WoW people are obviously going to never accept your points if all you are doing is comparing this game to it.

Neither did I.

Can I ask you why you named this topic ‘what made you stop playing’? It is entirely misleading (meaning that there could be any discussion here about reasons besides those in your rant) and doesn’t fit even a little.

Edit: Nvm, title changed already ;P

Taihaku.8412:

I didn’t stop playing. Also why do all of your points always refer back to WoW people are obviously going to never accept your points if all you are doing is comparing this game to it.

Well, because obviously, World of Warcraft have proved itself to be the most succesful MMORPG ever made, because it is there on it’s throne for 10 years, thats why.

I haven’t stopped playing, and from what I did read of your complaints it sounds like there is a game that already perfectly fits your game needs.

Chasan.3521:

I haven’t stopped playing, and from what I did read of your complaints it sounds like there is a game that already perfectly fits your game needs.

What if I am also tired of that game, and I wanted something new and fresh but it didn’t reach my expectations and now I am saddened?

lets be honest you cannot compare this game to the other one as they are yes both MMOs but are on a totally different tact from each other.

Having played both (the other one since vanilla) i prefer this one hands down it used to be a great game but they made the game far too easy from vanilla when the game was at it best in my honest opinion.

This game is still in its infancy and it will grow as did the first one which was a breath of fresh air to me when i tried it out.

If you dont like the waypoint system do what i do often run maps and disacover everything in game i am still finding out new things and new sights day after day.

So, you’re bored with this game because it isn’t like the game you’re tired of?

I honestly wish people would just take a step back and look at the big picture. This game is less than 2 months old, for crying out loud, and you’re comparing it to a game that has gone through SCORES of changes, re-writes, and 4 expansions over YEARS.

Next time you better read what you’re buying before buying it.
Anet has been yelling GW2 was made for those who are done forever with traditional MMO mechanics since months before release.
Seeing as you mention traditional MMO features as upsides, then you’re not the audience of this game – and it’s completely pointless that you list traditional features because we do not want them in GW2.

Shootsfoot.9276:

So, you’re bored with this game because it isn’t like the game you’re tired of?

I honestly wish people would just take a step back and look at the big picture. This game is less than 2 months old, for crying out loud, and you’re comparing it to a game that has gone through SCORES of changes, re-writes, and 4 expansions over YEARS.

But many basic feature people have come to expect were in other games at release or soon afterwards, where we are now. Instead we get fluff for Halloween, which will be long forgotten in a few weeks, instead of features that shoudl’ve already been implemented.

… sounds like a WoW feature list. Look at how well cloning all those features did for Trion. Some people just seem to have blinders on.

Josher.9612:

Shootsfoot.9276:

So, you’re bored with this game because it isn’t like the game you’re tired of?

I honestly wish people would just take a step back and look at the big picture. This game is less than 2 months old, for crying out loud, and you’re comparing it to a game that has gone through SCORES of changes, re-writes, and 4 expansions over YEARS.

But many basic feature people have come to expect were in other games at release or soon afterwards, where we are now. Instead we get fluff for Halloween, which will be long forgotten in a few weeks, instead of features that shoudl’ve already been implemented.

What exactly are these “basic” features you’re referring to?

But many basic feature people have come to expect were in other games at release or soon afterwards, where we are now. Instead we get fluff for Halloween, which will be long forgotten in a few weeks, instead of features that shoudl’ve already been implemented.

Not true. Mind that Halloween was the most popular of GW 1 events – and I for one would be very disappointed if it didn’t made its way into GW 2.

Also, at least in original, next events used the same foundations as previous – meaning that they already won’t have to take time to e.g. redesign entire Lion’s Arch during the next events.

Josher.9612:

But many basic feature people have come to expect were in other games at release or soon afterwards, where we are now. Instead we get fluff for Halloween, which will be long forgotten in a few weeks, instead of features that shoudl’ve already been implemented.

You don’t get it.

We did not want those features. Anet did not want those features.
The game was made for people who hated traditional MMOs and their mechanics – especially those mentioned.

If you’re looking for a game with traditional MMO mechanics GW2 is not that game – it’s actually an anti-traditional MMO.

Josher.9612:

Shootsfoot.9276:

So, you’re bored with this game because it isn’t like the game you’re tired of?

I honestly wish people would just take a step back and look at the big picture. This game is less than 2 months old, for crying out loud, and you’re comparing it to a game that has gone through SCORES of changes, re-writes, and 4 expansions over YEARS.

But many basic feature people have come to expect were in other games at release or soon afterwards, where we are now. Instead we get fluff for Halloween, which will be long forgotten in a few weeks, instead of features that shoudl’ve already been implemented.

Ah, what “people have come to expect.”

And that makes it right? Because I can tell you one thing, fishing in WoW had to be one of the most mind-numbingly boring things I have ever experienced in a game.

Just because you expect something in a game because it was in other games, doesn’t make it something everybody else wanted.

The more I read these posts, the more I’m convinced all the “disappointed” people wanted was a free version of WoW.

@Sarthersis: There’s also SWToR which is a clone to WoW. But then again, maybe you’re getting tired of MMOs in general.

I’m not a WoW expert or anything. I began playing on WotLK and stopped around Cata. WoW has established their system and their gameplay, and for those who enjoyed their game will continue to do so. Yes, they have set a standard, and companies risk if they make radical innovations that shy away from the MMO standard.

It’s hard to get out of the mindset of the Skinner’s box. I did struggle when I first started my few weeks in Tyria, but I eventually got weaned of the “uber gear” and “uber pwnage” mindset. But in the horizon, there will be more MMOs available in the market. Some will cater to your want on an MMO, while some will irk you for the things they lack, for the things that we deem should be standard from launch.

And this becomes a cycle. I hopped from WoW to SWToR. And when SWToR didn’t satisfy me, I completely stopped playing MMOs. I returned to StarCraft 2, and boy was that a rage-fueled fall and summer of 2012! MMOists is hard to satisfy. Try as the devs might, there will always be a cacophony of anger and rage and disappointment. Why? We expect too much, comparing a new MMO against the champ of MMOs.

We will never be satisfied.

There’s ArcheAge in the horizon and Wildstar twinkling in the future. The Secret World sounds good, and I like that modern setting with a horror theme. We’re all looking for an online home. It’s out there somewhere, but I found mine here in the lush greens of Tyria.

TL;DR — TIL I’m a fanboy…

Blizzard has one thing down pat over any other MMO/RPG company does, a way to hook players into a monotonous quest and raiding system through the never ending gear treadmill. For the few months i played Diablo and WoW, they both became not only mind numbingly boring, but had several key time sinks to keep players logged in longer and do less during their time in game. Travel in WoW is quite possible the worst most annoying feature in the game. Even if WoW went f2p, i wouldn’t go there again. There simply isn’t a worthy feature to compare the 2 and for sure no way to please everyone.

Shootsfoot.9276:

Josher.9612:

Shootsfoot.9276:

So, you’re bored with this game because it isn’t like the game you’re tired of?

I honestly wish people would just take a step back and look at the big picture. This game is less than 2 months old, for crying out loud, and you’re comparing it to a game that has gone through SCORES of changes, re-writes, and 4 expansions over YEARS.

But many basic feature people have come to expect were in other games at release or soon afterwards, where we are now. Instead we get fluff for Halloween, which will be long forgotten in a few weeks, instead of features that shoudl’ve already been implemented.

Ah, what “people have come to expect.”

And that makes it right? Because I can tell you one thing, fishing in WoW had to be one of the most mind-numbingly boring things I have ever experienced in a game.

Just because you expect something in a game because it was in other games, doesn’t make it something everybody else wanted.

The more I read these posts, the more I’m convinced all the “disappointed” people wanted was a free version of WoW.

Most accurate thing I’ve read in a while.

<—- Wow is thataway. Glad you still enjoy WoW but there is no need to make this game like it. I enjoy GW2 significantly more than WoW.

nastyjman.8207:

@Sarthersis: There’s also SWToR which is a clone to WoW. But then again, maybe you’re getting tired of MMOs in general.

TOR? Oh man, that was one of the worst MMO failures ever. Well second worse. FF14 was #1 (reason why it’s being remade) TOR was put on such a high pedestal then fell flat on it’s face. I blame 90% of this on EA and Bioware though. The game had great potential though.

Sartheris.8456:

These are one of the things that create unforgettable moments and memories, the messed up chat, the frustration, the disorganization, the fail, the success… You will find none of these here by the way.

So, to you, what makes a game fun and inter-active is the messed up chat, the frustration of bugs, lack of organization, and the failures of the game? I hope I find none of those in this game. And if you think those are what make a game memorable then this probably isn’t the game for you. It sounds like you have an emotional attachment to WoW (as all your points outright say that ArenaNet is doing it wrong, because they chose not to do it the WoW-Way) and if that’s the case, then Guild Wars 2 was six-feet under, for you, before it was even released.

@krojack

A friend and my SO recommended SWToR, so I hopped in. I admit that game was great with storytelling and immersion to the Star Wars universe (but I hear SWG was the best-est). What killed the game for me was PvP. It reminded me why I gave up on WoW — you have to grind for the better gear, and if you don’t, you’re screwed. I can’t emphasize enough of how happy I am with GW2’s PvP system.

“I don’t like Pepsi. I like Coke. Coke does XYZ things better. Pepsi should change from ABC to XYZ so more people will like them and they will be more popular.”

Is how I read these posts. Yes GW2 is different. That’s the point.

They’re kitten if they do and kitten if they don’t. Be more like WoW, then it’s “Oh it’s a cheap WoW clone.” Different from WoW and it’s “WoW does this better.”

I appreciate your well worded post however.

There’s gonna be a drop-off of players who start the game. Seeing it pretty big in my guild, having lost a couple battleground commander types. My close group of mates haven’t even logged in for a couple weeks now.

It’s hard to put a finger on it, except that it’s often not as fun as you might have hoped. I finished an Orr map and got the zone completion (which was trading-post fodder, as expected) and I realized it really hadn’t been fun at all, cept solving the jumping puzzle. shrug Just before I did the temple of melandru meta, and that last fight had some fun, interesting elements, but was soooo long to the point of tedium, felt unfair and punishing, and of course no reward to mark as being different, so you’re left feeling I’d have been a lot better off if I just followed the bot train…

I know, I know, it’s not about the rewards, in GW2 you do things cuz it’s fun not cuz you’ll get a payoff. But the trouble is the fun part is too often overly elusive.

GW2 is a great MMO. I had a lot of fun. But people will go to such lengths to ignore bugs and missing “basics”, making excuses. Its obviously ignorance to whats already out there. Like being amazed that a new car has power windows, even though they’ve been around for quite a while. Some people will claim, I don’t WANT power windows, this car is “different”. Sorry, its just excuses or low expectations.

Whats basic that I noticed within a short time of playing…

A decent search engine for the TP is a basic feature thats missing. Can’t search by armor type.

An inspect feature so you know what someone is wearing is also a basic feature.

A decent camera that doesn’t bug out and zoom in and out 30X a sec when you’re near a wall and a decent FOV. At least give us a slider.

Quest rewards(story), that are tied to your class and not some random vendor trash that is often under your level and worthless. Should apply to all chests as well. If you don’t want it, you can still sell it, but at least its something you “might” want.

A slightly customizable interface. Small and large is cute though;)

Being able to see at least 1/2 of the players in front of you, instead of them slowly appearing or not at all. I know, too much to ask for=) Its NOT my PC.

More thought into gear design so clipping is less of an issue. A staff shouldn’t be inside the armor, sorry.

Decent group tools and its UI. I know, when grouping its not all that important to keep track of what your group mates are doing(compared to other MMOs), but yeesh. This is really streamlined.

More thought into magic effects and what happens when 10+ people are shooting them off at once. They really didn’t think very hard on that one.

Working traits and trees that were planned out with some forethought. Necro is a disaster compared to how well other classes. A little balance issues are OK, but things not working at all or doing things they’re not supposed to do….cmon. 1/2 our abilities don’t work underwater. HELLO?

Too many loading screens. Maybe not that basic, but its certainly glaringly annoying when other games manage to avoid them.

Trains?? Really?

Messed up spawn rates. Never played a MMO where the mob you just killed spawns instantly in the same spot as soon as it dies….let alone 3 mobs spawning at the same time around you.

By the way, this isn’t the WOW-way, even though they have set a precedence that is hard to compete with. I haven’t played WOW for a while, but I’m not blind or fanboyish enough to ignore the many great things its brought to the genre. Ignoring them makes you foolish. Different is good. Different by ignoring the basics is NOT good. Also, discounting an opinion because someone mentions WOW, shows your age. Just saying.

The crafting system is AWESOME. I love the fact that you get XP for EVERYTHING. IF you consider the amount of xp that you need in order to get 200 skill points for a legendary…

Grouping and socalizing is great in this game. Your not forced to group which is fantastic. And since you get XP for rezing people and ANYONE can rez.

Open wold PVP is aweful. Its just a gank fest, nothing more. Thats all it ever was in WoW too. There is a VERY VERY small minority pf players that want open world PvP.

Role playing. Again. There is a VERY small subest of players that want RP. And The bulk of those who “RP” barly do so.

I will agree with you that the simple act of giving an item to another player is a PITA and far more complex that it needs to be. Curiously enough, In the end, the mail system is EXACLTY the same but does not require proximity in order to use.

Hello haloween event !

Customizeable UI? The UI is minimal enough that customization is really a non-issue. IF you really take a look at WoW custonmization is REQUIRED. YOU MUST use 3rd party mods to play the game effectivly. You know exactly what I mean. (eg. DBM, Threat meter, etc, etc) I find it sad and pathetic that 3rd party mods are required to play. That means the developers failed at providing enough in game information to the player to effectivly play.

Traveling? yeah. All the way points are nice. Would I like mounts? …yes (please dont beat me anymore). Most MMO’s you spend a significant amount of time just traveling. Because you know, running from point A to point B on a fixed travel path is exciting. Despite the waypoints the world here is exciting to run around and explore.

And on “endgame”.
Its a word that has had it meaning distorted.
There is an entire thread dedicated to “endgame”. Its a mighty impressive list too. Its a shame people seem to ignore it and cry about nothing to do.

I will say this.

Maybe GW2 is not the game for you.
Maybe you should go back to WoW as it sounds like you enjoy that game.

@Josher many salutes to you!!!
Seems like people have misunderstood me, I don’t want a WOW clone, as I said I am kinda tired of WoW, thats why I came to GW, looking for something different…

What keeps me playing is all the ways in which this game is not WoW.

Sartheris.8456:

@Josher many salutes to you!!!
Seems like people have misunderstood me, I don’t want a WOW clone, as I said I am kinda tired of WoW, thats why I came to GW, looking for something different…

Ah ha. Well, framed like Josher put it, things make more sense. I agree there are a few common features, like search functions that could be added. These will come in time. Vanilla WoW was very different from the current version.

Just because another title has it already doesn’t mean it should ship will all subsequent games of similar ilk. ANet as a great foundation to build a behemoth title. It will just take some time. I find the question to be: Are you (players) willing to give that time to them?

Hell, it took you this long?

After raising a toon to max and a couple more to upper 50’s and 30’s, I got pretty tired of an amazingly shallow gameplay. The system to dye your gear is more complex than the fregging combat system.

And don’t forget the same gear skins that drop from lvl 10-max. Every 10 levels I was putting on a new pirate hat with a kitten feather and frolicking around!

Bosses in dungeons dropped some lovely worthless blues and greens, obviously skins of which were very unique(sarcasm).

I have to say, the world, was beautiful, extraordinarily beautiful.

This ended when you reached max level and you were dropped in a zone that looked like kitten and every turned farmer and midget was attacking you every 5 seconds….

So this is what I think.

It’s a beautiful world they have built around a very shallow game.
If your idea is to run around with some unique gear every few levels, this game is not for you.
If your idea of playing a game revolves around being punished for playing too much, too little, too well, not well at all, then this game is not for you.
If your idea of a game is to expect rewards after a tedious dungeon/raid/event, then this game is not for you.
If your idea of a game is to play a game that offers ways to tweak your UI, your notifications and provide a unique look to your UI, then this game is not for you.

In all these cases, this “you” person happened to be me.

I agree with a good deal of your points, although I am still avidly playing GW2. I enjoy the experience and I am just now digging into the sPvP aspect of the game. Despite agreeing with almost everything you said, I have to say that I am not overly disappointed by what I see in GW2. I’ll explain:

There are many features that are missing (like trading, dueling, sitting in chairs, etc…) that are bothersome, annoying, and confusing at times. I am always on mumble playing with one or two of my friends and I can’t help noticing that I can’t go more than 10-15 minutes without commenting on something that “needs work” in GW2. My friends agree. However, we all still play. It hasn’t really been enough to make us feel like the game isn’t worth playing.

I believe that simply boils down to this game almost creating (or rather, expanding) on a sub-genre of the MMORPG, or maybe establishing a rift between genres. To elaborate, you have the traditional MMORPG’s that follow WoW and its predecessor’s philosophies, which essentially came down to vertical progression as opposed to horizontal progression. In GW2, you have vertical progression until you hit 80 and earn your first set of exotics. After that point all of your progression that is not solely related to skill is completely horizontal.

So it really isn’t even the same genre as a game like WoW. That is not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. However, people should be well aware of that fact while playing GW2. As you stated earlier, it is indeed more about the journey than the destination. Some people will naturally prefer one or the other, as they are fairly stark contrasts dressed up in the same packaging – that being the MMORPG format.

Ultimately, my conclusion is simple. There are two types, or if you prefer, genres of MMORPGs available for you to take part in. There are ones that favor vertical progression (the carrot on the stick, the gear treadmill, the raiding) and ones that favor horizontal progression (the journey, the experience, the aesthetics). It really is up to the gamer to decide which one they wish to play, if not both.

For anyone who has read my response and is curious, my preference is two-fold. I think in the long run I would prefer a vertical progression MMORPG. I like the carrot on a stick and I like feeling like the time I put into something earns me the right to feel especially powerful compared to others who haven’t dedicated that amount of time. However, given my current schedule with work and my limited ability to play, a horizontal progression game fits the bill perfectly. I love GW2 for giving me the MMORPG experience without the massive time sink looming over me as I grind away the hours. I find that I am able to play for an hour here and an hour there and be satisfied with my time spent, then log off to do something else, or even play another game. I am thoroughly enjoying GW2, but I think in the future, once I have some more time on my hands, I will make my way back over to the treadmill and hit up the old grind once more.

Breaking it down

Crafting: agree with the last paragraph
Socializing: it’s different, you have to “work” more for it, not necessary a bad thing
Open world PvP: did not exist in GW1 also, ANET decided it this way.
Role-playing: The need to “sit” :-), it could have been done better, but let’s also be honest, good role-players can work around everything.
Trade window: Lack of time? I don’t know why this doesn’t exist.
Auction House: It works “when it works”, I don’t have problems with it. There are books around it in WoW because of the huge player base, not because it’s a good AH. Check EvE if you want to see a full economy working.
UI: For me this is the best MMO UI out of the box, I understand the need of UI customization for some, specially for people that are used to play games with terrible UIs where the installation of MODs are mandatory. A checkbox to unlock/lock UI elements GW1 style would be a nice addition.
Travelling: No problems with it, don’t forget that the waypoints here have a double purpose, they are not only for travelling but also for rezzing. Maybe in the following expansions they will add mounts, not really important for me.
Endgame: Or is it PvE or is it PvP? What matters is the journey and WoW in the same sentence? Your examples do not make sense. I agree that there are lot’s of things to improve(add) endgame wise.
Being distinctive and untouchable: I really like the way this game is in that regard.

I don’t understand why you were looking for something fresh, different, then complain why some things are not like the game you played before.

Size =/= Quality. The fact that a game had 10m players do not mean much to me.
I understand why you see WoW as a standart, for me the most closest to perfect MMO is EvE Online which is running for more time than WoW but with much less players.

Good post, there are lot’s of flaws in GW2, lot’s of things to improve I give you that.
But lot’s of your ideias are things I’m not interested in seeing in GW.
To each their own.

So basically op what your saying is you stopped playing because this game is not wow, wow might be very successful but if gw2 was the same as wow then there wouldn’t be much point in it because instead we could all just play wow. Now I agree with some of your points and that’s why I’m not playing much but the last thing the game needs is to be wow,the game fits many people’s idea of what they want to play and that’s good there are already enough wow clones out there as it is ,for those that want wow ,go play wow.

No game of this specific genre will ever meet WoW numbers again. Ever. The fantasy RPG Themepark genre has hit its heights during WoTLK and is on a slow decline to a plateau. So bringing in WoW numbers (which is losing numbers and is on its own slow decline/plateau) is irrelevant. Once you realize this and the thought of “10 MILLION subs = win” is gone, the entire genre opens up for you. I just easily see the patterns and it follows just like Everquest did back in the day before WoW took MMO’s Mainstream (and now there is nowhere else to go for these games).

Making the game like WoW just won’t work. The mechanics don’t support raids, and barely support massive PvE elements.

For instance: Combo effects – Combo’s only work on a two layer element. For instance if my warrior tosses down a fire circle all projectiles get fire damage.

Awesome.

Now toss that same fire circle and toss a poison circle on top. The game seems to only recognize one of those two elements. You not doing Fire + Poison damage (which is what should happen) you are doing fire or poison damage. Having 25 people running around tossing fields down just doesn’t work atm. Maybe if they added that they could implement some sort of good raid system that could take advantage of the combat system we have, but not right now.

LFG finder. Yup I agree, been asking since day 1 (Before anyone harps on me I do multiple dungeons a day so I know what I am talking about).

no subscription. you paid the same amount as any other current gen game to play probably much more than any of those. /thread

I concede to some of his points… I know Anet wants to break from the traditional, but it doesn’t necessarily mean an absolute rejection of everything “traditional” MMOs have conjured up… Like a LFG system (hey GW1 had that and it was actually good).

Kinda question crafting in the long run, aside from cooking/artificing with the consumables, but if the seasonal things showed anything… Looking forward to crafting a Candy Cane Rifle that shoots tinsel this Xmas season (yes moderator, put this bit in the suggestion forum for Xmas time). In terms of skins as the rewards, you can’t be surprised since they said it all along.

nastyjman.8207:

@krojack

A friend and my SO recommended SWToR, so I hopped in. I admit that game was great with storytelling and immersion to the Star Wars universe (but I hear SWG was the best-est). What killed the game for me was PvP. It reminded me why I gave up on WoW — you have to grind for the better gear, and if you don’t, you’re screwed. I can’t emphasize enough of how happy I am with GW2’s PvP system.

True however Huttball was the best thing for PvP since sliced bread.

LOL. You want something new and fresh… as long as it’s exactly like WoW. Has it occurred to you that maybe it’s your expectations that are the problem?

GW != WoW. Not everyone wants to get ganked by lvl-capped l33ts, so I’m forced to disagree with what I believe you’re suggesting: open-world mandatory PvP.

GW != WoW. Crafting: not sure what you mean by ‘almighty’. If you want complex systems and player inter-dependencies, I agree for realism’s sake; but if I shouldn’t be prevented from being able to make useful, sought-after, and occasionally unique items because I choose to have more of a real life than some addicts (er… I mean ‘hard-core enthusiasts’).

GW != WoW. Grouping: event-induced attention deficit disorder are part of the appeals of this game to many. I hated sitting in 21st hall (LotRo) popping LFG or LFM forever and coming up empty. Here, stuff just happens. It’s a design choice. I do hope to see a good number of large raids down the road, though, but this open-event style is perfect for my play style and time commitment.

As for the other items (role playing, player interaction), I definitely agree with them as great suggestions for improvement, feature enhancements, or really just your personal preferences. Although, it’s too bad that you view them as deal breakers for a game that’s only 2 months out of the gate. At least they have cosmetic clothing (which, last, I checked, SWToR is laughably lacking). lol

@krojack Off topic, but as an aside: Huttball was frawesome! SWToR is, imo, a great MMOrpG that almost was. Great story lines, amazing vistas, great raids, open PvP option. But it’s more of an MMOG (missing the RP or weak at best); not to mention my personal hot-button for any successor to SWG: open multi-player space-flight instead of the single-player tunnel-shooter joke. GW2’s combat system is what SWToR’s hyped-up combat system should have been.

- Crafting system – GW2’s crafting system is better than most but still does lack difficulty which would make it more entertaining instead of a grind. Look to EQ2 at launch for an example of skill based crafting before they nerfed it so you couldn’t fail at crafting. Also, all the crafting professions relied on eachother for materials needed in their combines which aided in the socialization/community as well. I believe unless we go back to UO’s style of gear is destructable crafting will never be quite right. Its hard to have an economy based on items each player only needs once.
– Grouping and socializing. Raids and groups and instancing are horrible for socialization. There is no sense of being a part of a community. Even guilds are limited. GW2 has done a great job at bringing strangers together for a common purpose. I have not had a community feeling like this since EQ1.
– Open World PVP – This exists in GW2 is called WvW all the open field pvp you want. Running across random strangers to fight, its there. Grouping up with lots of others to assult settlements and bases, it has that too.
- Role-Playing – RPers will RP if there is a seperate server for them or not. Its too time consuming to moderate that only RPers are in the RP server. Its just easier to let this minority community form their own boundaries within your world than try to segregate them.
- Player/Player interaction – This should be in the game. Only reason I see for not having it is so that players HAD to use the TP if they wanted to have a secure trade.
- Casual activities – I don’t have time to put into these anymore but they should be there to entertain the people who put more than 50 hours a week into the game. I know what you mean these activities that are just there to spend time with someone without it feeling like your sitting in a chat room typing to them are nice. I would add mini games to the list of possible casual activities too.
- Interface customization – This should be there, I expect it got axed due to investor pressure to release early. Currently no need since I only look at the UI to see if I’m ready for the next fight, once in the fight I practically have my firing sequence memorized.
– The traveling system – I like the option of either hoofing it or just getting there already for a nominal fee. If there was persistant PVP you would have to have no instant travel so there is opportunity to gank people traveling but since persistant PVP is contained in WvW it doesn’t detract to have the portals in my opinion.

- The Endgame concept – WoW and most MMOs is all about getting to top level as fast as you can then doing content. The only reason there are raids and dungeons at lower than top levels is because they are at levels that used to be top levels. If you just grind past those levels to the new top level all of that old content and gear are obsolete.

- Being distinctive and untouchable – There are games that reward players who spend more time in game than most people do working as you mentioned. I am glad this is not yet one of them. I still have the sence of individuality though as there are several players in WvW that are always excellent fights and thus draw instant aggro from me when I see them. They managed to find ways to look unique, may just need to get creative with it. Also, it does no good to look unique in GW2 if you don’t have the skills to be memorable.

They have several production teams. That is why there is haloween content because there is a production team assigned to work on seasonal/temporary content and another for bug fixes and another one for working on expansions.
The lack of bug fixes is distressing to be sure especially when there is so much low hanging fruit (small easy bugs). I have seen and heard of some bugs that got fixed but never made the patch notes. It would help ANet if they told us everything to at least know how much they are really fixing looks bad only seeing a few fixes per day. The fact that so many balance issues and so many traits and skills were so obviously bugged at release is odd. Makes you wonder what the beta folks did? Some of the bugs I have seen are ones that should have been caught in Alpha let alone Beta.

I say give them time (at current rates LOTS). In the long run its only 60 dollars/euros I already have more gameplay out of this than many other games I paid the same for.

OP you kitten.. why the kitten you even bought this game is beyond me..
You basically want this game to be a WoW clone..

I can tell you know the reason why this game Won’t fail unlike so many WoW clones is because it’s unique in it’s own way…

Just go play what you want to play next time read a kitten review or something

I didn’t read all the posts, nor do I expect anyone to read mine. However, before its closed from the fanboys on page 1 I’d like to agree with the poster and post what is making me log on less and less everyday

- first of all, anyone saying this game is an anti-mmo then why was it labelled an mmo?
-to everyone saying this is a skill based game, I’m not sure what game your playing but I’m playing one where everyclass has 40 bugs or more. Hacks/exploits/lolservertransferring (implemented horribly btw) with 1 map mode and no laders, and tpvp of pugs vs groups IS NOT SKILL.
-to everyone saying this has no grind: how are you making money? Caus I for one can’t afford massive RL money for gold since they implemented a garbage anti-botting script. Also have you made a legendary? Caus all I hear is “I’m not GRINDING for that”
-lack of immersiveness, as already stated: waypoints kill this MORE than mounts. Why in the EFF can’t I duel people/friends in a friggen PVP game, especially on friday night waiting in lions arch for w3 que (I can’t express how much money and more time I would be playing if I could hone my skills in duels)
-WoW came out in 2004, while having bugs, it wasn’t as bad as this. The worst thing in vanilla wow was server lag due to massive WORLD pvping (aq opening gates anyone?)
-im not looking for a wow clone, but ANet could have done with adding some of wows features.
-this last point is more of an imo, I miss the holy trinity but that’s because I usually roll a tank or healer.

/rant off

For the record I’d like to point out again, Just because everyone has the same gear, doesn’t mean this game has skill based pvp. Its actually pretty bad when you take your fanboy glasses off.

GW2 simply isn’t a cohesive game. It’s a bunch of ultra casual activities loosely tied together and the classes are far too limited to provide any lasting entertainment. The “everybody wins” mentality has been taken to an extreme, to the point where everything is pointless because it’s so easy you just go through the motions.

Ultra casual/easy content + watered down classes = boring theme park.

I agree with everything the OP said about GW2, although I do not care for comparing it to WoW as I feel WoW is a pretty crappy MMO, it was ok during the late Vanilla, and BC times, but has steadily declined into the garbage it is today.

I played WoW for 2 years and am seasoned enough myself in a slew of MMO’s to say …… you are entitled to your OPINION. If you expect me to try and convince you otherwise only because you initially said if “we” tried to convince you then we are wasting our collective breath. Sorry … I am NOT going to try. Enjoy your MMO of choice… I am happy with GW2 (flaws and all) and I choose to enjoy and play it. No MMO is free of flaws including the 800 pound Orc circa 2004.

I wouldn’t play wow ever. Just the amount of money you waste on it over the course of getting the game and playing it… Is enourmous. First there’s the expense at getting the game in the first place. Then there’s the monthly subscription. Then the expansion packs. Then you might play for years. 12 months of paying. For several years? Madness.

I’m glad where GW2 is heading, or at least what it started. I hope it’ll become like WoW, in the sense that it’ll become really big and last ages and ages. I like the radical approach.

Just a few tips on mmorpgs..

*Ther are no Basic features
*Numbers doesn’t equal best (Justin beiber and Mcdonalds.. please)
*There are no clones of WoW (If it did exist Blizzard would have sued and Won because it is their IP)
*There is not just one way to go for mmorpgs

If you need progression in a game in order for it to be fun, the game is not fun in the first place. People that play games as a job need to re-think. They need to know that nobody cares what they do in-game, nobody, not even themselves.

Gw2 is more casual even tho the game itself is harder to play, it’s a much steeper learning curve and i like that, even tho they really need to fix tooltip on so many things, like attributes?!

Main point is, if you don’t like it and feel like you need progression, etc etc the game isn’t for you, people just wanna change so much to fit their needs, stop trying to change games your way just enjoy them or find another game, it’s easy.

I’m not talking about not giving suggestions, i’m mainly talking about people that wanna change the core element of games so often it’s funny, they never learn to find other games to fill their needs.

Comparing MMO is all well and such since it’s your previous experience but some of these issues are completely based on your own personal feelings.

As you call yourself a Veteran MMO gamer and then compare the game to pretty much only WoW is in my eyes another WoW gamer that played the game since day 1 possibly and thought of making a short break till the Panda release came along.

WoW is a nice MMO cause it copies the content of other MMO that do well and followup on it in their own flavour.

As to your points. Guild Wars 2 is supposed to give you the feeling of progression no matter what you do. Be it crafting, rezzing some poor soul, running around exploring or killing other players in WvW. I can understand that the experience gained at the moment from crafting is a tid bit high but nothing to be too concerned about if you plan your crafting right.

Grouping up and socializing, I agree there is no group find system at the moment but they have mentioned they are working on it. It’s already a nice thing you can make groups cross-server and if this is in that will make this just whole lot easier then it currently is.

Open-world PvP – Always something to question about not everyone likes the idea to be able to get attacked anywhere, anyplace. I think they got it right with the World vs World system as it currently is just maybe some tweaking on who fights who but thats all it is. Nobody is forcing anyone to jump into WvW and yet it’s filled with people most of the day that you are able to kill to level up, capture stuff and just generally have fun.

I’ll grab a few things I personally don’t have a problem with at all:

- Casual Activities there some ingame Keg Brawl, Costume Brawl Jumping Puzzles (most of them) and there are probably more.
- Traveling System – no issues here I like how it works if you wanna ride a bird for the next 2 hours to travel from one side of the country to another you know where to go for that. If you wanna do that in Guild Wars 2 just walk across all maps till you reach your destination.
- The Endgame concept, not sure how your look can be so biased there is tons of things to do but not in the same way as in WoW. Where you have to grind PvP specific armor or PvE specific armor cause one couldn’t be used in the other. I think this has been one of the worst changes I have seen in MMO’s of late. For some reason there is need of Vengeance and Valor, PvP attack, defense. WoW, SWtor, Aion and Rift from the top of my mind all have this sad system implemented.
I won’t say i’m a full time pvp’er or pve’er but I like to take part in both activities and also like to jump around some puzzles once in awhile, throw tarts in peoples faces and what not. Try and see how lucky I might get one day and get a legendary weapon at my disposable. It’s not a game about getting the best gear it’s about showing off the best looks and how you worked towards it that’s what shows your status not the level of kitten in the stats of pvp attack so you can possibly one shot the new guy. That new guy doesn’t enjoy being one shot.

Most of the issues aren’t really issues but just things that need tweaking, balancing and what not.

Also noticed somebody mentioned something about bugs in the game he cannot look past. Every MMO and even singleplayer game comes with bugs nowadays you just cannot get past it. If you were to look at your veteran mmo game you played so much for example there were tons of bugs and did you care then? Maybe if you were affected by it but o therwise you would ignore it completely.