Guild Wars 2

pricer.5091:

No. I’m saying it was your opinion that it was defined in the piece. Nowhere in the piece does it state,“here is my definition of grind, anything I say beyond this point must be taken in the same way”. And in fact, even if you take it the way that Colin allegedly meant it, he’s still wrong…because the combat is spectacularly “hit-one-button”.

No, it’s not my opinion. This is the line that defines it. It’s defined by context. It’s clear as a bell.

“In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff.”

This is the grind he’s talking about. He’s literally telling you that this is the grind. The stuff you have to do to get to the fun stuff. It’s crystal clear. It’s not my opinion.

People want to take the second sentence that mentions grind and changed how he used it the first time, a couple of lines earlier.

There’s no opinion here. It’s a fact that it’s defined by context.

Rhinala.1739:

@Vayne.8563: what truly baffles me is that you broke the sentence:

In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘

and only used half of it in order to show that their meaning is grind to unlock areas. while the second part

I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great.
We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

clearly show that Anet is referring grind as a mindlessly killing the same enemies over and over again. something introduced by the latest dailies (kill 50 ascelonians, kill 25 underwater).
I prefer a gear gating that would take me to harder and harder areas, one that getting the new gear would take the small effort of running other dungeons or buying (took me few days to reach end game gear in other game) then mindlessly killing enemies as time gating.

you can use my grammar as a way to show that i truly don’t understand as a wonderful spin.

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

Vayne.8563:

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

So according to your statement grind is time based? this daily still urge you to kill 50 ascelonian in order to clear this “achievement”, what is the difference between this and kill 10 rats in any other game? killing 10 rats take roughly 2 min but it still consider as grind. By the way as a lower level those killings will give me xp and help me level.

Vayne.8563:

It’s so sad to see what happens when people try to explain to an editor how to read English. The idea of a paragraph is to group ideas together.

Of course, your entire line of reasoning is wrong. I would like to begin, though, with the irony in having to point to the mighty editor, expert on reading English, and fond of telling others to learn how to read, that what we are discussing is a video. All the times you have been saying “read” in this discussion, you are 100%, factually wrong. Your notion of a “paragraph” is also wrong – since it was not text, the idea that those lines are part of the same paragraph is your interpretation of them, not a fact.

Now, let’s see what Colin has said, right?

In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.

Now, he defines grind as everything that is not fun in the game. In fact, if “grind” were defined as “doing repetitive tasks over and over to reach the level cap”, Colin would not have needed to say “boring grind to get to the fun stuff” – otherwise it would be implied, by the use of the word “grind”, that it was in reference to reaching the fun stuff. Do notice how he has not said the word “required” anywhere, for the records.

So what does Colin mean? That they don’t want players to do repetitive, annoying tasks like grinding, farming, etc. Not that they don’t want required grind – nowhere in there Colin mentions the word “required”. Not that they don’t want people to level grind or gear grind – nowhere there does Colin use the words “level” or “gear”.

The irony here is to see ArenaNet fans trying to twist his words, when they were in fact one of the most admirable things in the entire Manifesto. I believe this is the perfect example of how people wearing rose colored glasses are bad for a game – even someone who really likes Guild Wars 2 should be able to realize how they have strayed from the original views expressed in the Manifesto, and ask ArenaNet to go back to it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the company had to change due to internal conflicts about those ideas, and players asking the game to move in the direction of the Manifesto would actually help ArenaNet, not hinder them.

In other words, it’s sad that some people are against any kind of criticism, even constructive criticism, to the point of twisting so completely something we all have heard.

Rhinala.1739:

Vayne.8563:

But you can kill 50 ascalonians anywhere and in passing. You’re not killing to level. It takes precisely 4 minutes to kill 50 ascalonians.

If you want to call 4 minutes a grind, be my guest.

So according to your statement grind is time based? this daily still urge you to kill 50 ascelonian in order to clear this “achievement”, what is the difference between this and kill 10 rats in any other game? killing 10 rats take roughly 2 min but it still consider as grind. By the way as a lower level those killings will give me xp and help me level.

Grind is something you do over and over and over again, usually for a long period of time. It’s a “long” grind, not a “short” grind.

Grind is something that you do repeatedly over and over. In the original sense it was used for leveling. You’d have to kill hundreds if not thousands of mobs to get to the next level. Not 50 that you could kill in literally 4 minutes.

I’m pretty sure that killing stuff for 4 minutes doesn’t constitute a grind. Let’s stop redefining words, please.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

It’s so sad to see what happens when people try to explain to an editor how to read English. The idea of a paragraph is to group ideas together.

Of course, your entire line of reasoning is wrong. I would like to begin, though, with the irony in having to point to the mighty editor, expert on reading English, and fond of telling others to learn how to read, that what we are discussing is a video. All the times you have been saying “read” in this discussion, you are 100%, factually wrong. Your notion of a “paragraph” is also wrong – since it was not text, the idea that those lines are part of the same paragraph is your interpretation of them, not a fact.

Now, let’s see what Colin has said, right?

In most games, you go out, and you have really fun tasks, occasionally, that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. ‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.

Now, he defines grind as everything that is not fun in the game. In fact, if “grind” were defined as “doing repetitive tasks over and over to reach the level cap”, Colin would not have needed to say “boring grind to get to the fun stuff” – otherwise it would be implied, by the use of the word “grind”, that it was in reference to reaching the fun stuff. Do notice how he has not said the word “required” anywhere, for the records.

So what does Colin mean? That they don’t want players to do repetitive, annoying tasks like grinding, farming, etc. Not that they don’t want required grind – nowhere in there Colin mentions the word “required”. Not that they don’t want people to level grind or gear grind – nowhere there does Colin use the words “level” or “gear”.

The irony here is to see ArenaNet fans trying to twist his words, when they were in fact one of the most admirable things in the entire Manifesto. I believe this is the perfect example of how people wearing rose colored glasses are bad for a game – even someone who really likes Guild Wars 2 should be able to realize how they have strayed from the original views expressed in the Manifesto, and ask ArenaNet to go back to it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the company had to change due to internal conflicts about those ideas, and players asking the game to move in the direction of the Manifesto would actually help ArenaNet, not hinder them.

In other words, it’s sad that some people are against any kind of criticism, even constructive criticism, to the point of twisting so completely something we all have heard.

First, since I’m reading it in the wiki instead of watching the video, I am in fact reading it. That’s your first mistake. I am on the forum reading what someone quoted. Everyone in this conversation is in fact reading it, not listening to it. Thanks for weighing on that.

Now, that said, he used the words “THIS” boring grind. It’s specifying the grind to get to the fun stuff.

He finishes with the words, ’We want to change the way people view COMBAT".

Really, you’re just trying to twist things into your definition. That’s all you’re trying to do.

I’m taking the entire piece and reading it you guys are basically trying to take a sentence out of a paragraph. It doesn’t work.

Vayne.8563:

First, since I’m reading it in the wiki instead of watching the video, I am in fact reading it. That’s your first mistake

Nope, it’s your mistake. You are reading second-hand information, while assuming that everyone is doing the same thing you are. For everyone you are telling to “learn to read”, you can be talking to someone who’s actually listening to the source instead of being happy to read someone’s interpretation of it. In fact, you are losing by reading text – you are missing tone, cadence, body language, and all other things we, who have seen the video, know more about than you. For the records, an editor should know how text is lacking in those aspects when compared to video.

Ergo, your opinion is flawed. You lack the knowledge we have because you do not know what we are talking about, you only have second hand and incomplete information.

Vayne.8563:

I’m taking the entire piece and reading it you guys are basically trying to take a sentence out of a paragraph. It doesn’t work.

It’s actually not a sentence out of a paragraph considering it’s not text…

Vayne.8563:

Now, that said, he used the words “THIS” boring grind. It’s specifying the grind to get to the fun stuff.

Yep, grind to get to the fun stuff. It’s only your rose collored glasses that make you believe he’s talking about required grind, or gear grind or level grind. “Fun stuff” means anything in the game that people enjoy, from a fun dungeon to a fun area to explore to a fun type of PvP to a fun item. Any kind of grind in the game is bad, which is fitting since then Colin says “we don’t want players to grind”, not “we don’t want required grind”.

Vayne.8563:

He finishes with the words, ’We want to change the way people view COMBAT".

Exactly. Combat is not seen as boring only when grinding for gear or for levels, it’s also seen as boring in grind for items or gold (aka farming). It’s no surprise that ArenaNet would claim they don’t want players to grind and then say thet want to change how people view combat. What doesn’t make sense is to assume that changing only level grind would change how people view combat.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

First, since I’m reading it in the wiki instead of watching the video, I am in fact reading it. That’s your first mistake

Nope, it’s your mistake. You are reading second-hand information, while assuming that everyone is doing the same thing you are. For everyone you are telling to “learn to read”, you can be talking to someone who’s actually listening to the source instead of being happy to read someone’s interpretation of it. In fact, you are losing by reading text – you are missing tone, cadence, body language, and all other things we, who have seen the video, know more about than you. For the records, an editor should know how text is lacking in those aspects when compared to video.

Ergo, your opinion is flawed. You lack the knowledge we have because you do not know what we are talking about, you only have second hand and incomplete information.

Vayne.8563:

I’m taking the entire piece and reading it you guys are basically trying to take a sentence out of a paragraph. It doesn’t work.

It’s actually not a sentence out of a paragraph considering it’s not text…

Vayne.8563:

Now, that said, he used the words “THIS” boring grind. It’s specifying the grind to get to the fun stuff.

Yep, grind to get to the fun stuff. It’s only your rose collored glasses that make you believe he’s talking about required grind, or gear grind or level grind. “Fun stuff” means anything in the game that people enjoy, from a fun dungeon to a fun area to explore to a fun type of PvP to a fun item. Any kind of grind in the game is bad, which is fitting since then Colin says “we don’t want players to grind”, not “we don’t want required grind”.

Vayne.8563:

He finishes with the words, ’We want to change the way people view COMBAT".

Exactly. Combat is not seen as boring only when grinding for gear or for levels, it’s also seen as boring in grind for items or gold (aka farming). It’s no surprise that ArenaNet would claim they don’t want players to grind and then say thet want to change how people view combat. What doesn’t make sense is to assume that changing only level grind would change how people view combat.

But combat has nothing at all to do with gear grind. The way people are interpreting it is a lie. It’s not a lie.

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.
Point 2. The game DELIVERS fun stuff in early zones. That happens to be a matter of taste. I never had to go through boring grind to get to the fun stuff. In fact, for most people, the boring grind doesn’t really start until max level. Ergo there’s no lie there.
Point 3. When people use the word lie, they imply intent. There isn’t a person alive who can tell me 100% certain that when Colin said those words he INTENDED to mislead.

If I go and tell my kids I’m going to take them to the movies, and then I get a call and have to go into work, I didn’t lie to them. I told them the truth. The situation changed.

As long as people throw around the word lie, I’ll continue to correct them.

The MOST you could say is that Anet’s intent wasn’t realized. And even that’s a complete matter of opinion.

No one can factually say the manifesto is a lie.

Tachenon.5270:

I’ve been through one of the paths in Twilight Arbor three times now and still don’t have enough dungeon tokens or whatever they are to get ONE lousy stinking piece of Twilight Arbor armor. Armor, to me, is content – see also: fun stuff – that I can only get to in this game if I repeat a particular activity repeatedly (see also: grind).

If you don’t have enough tickets you’re doing dungeon running wrong
1. If you ran all 3 paths once you would have had 180 tickets. Enough for helm, gloves or boots.
2. If you had 2 alts and ran one path once on all of your characters you would have once again had 180 tickets.
3. If you ran the same path once a day, you would have once again had 180 tickets.
You are doing it the no brainer way – “I’ll repeat this path on the same character 3 times!” well after the first run DR should kick in so you’ll only amass 100 tickets.
Dungeon running is not grindy, but you chose the grindiest path to do it.

Vayne.8563:

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.

Irrelevant, tbh. Saying it’s a lie or not is more a discussion about semantics than a discussion about the game.

We know Guild Wars 2 was a work in progress (and is a work in progress). Dyes were originally account-wide and now are character wide; engineers originally had an Absorb skill that was later given to mesmers; ArenaNet claimed they didn’t want players to grind, and now the game has a lot of grind. Are any of those lies? Meh, not really, but what we call them doesn’t matter. I’m more concerned about why did those changes happen, and the impact they had in the game, than in discussing how to call them.

I have a strong feeling that ArenaNet had a conflicting view of the game; some aspects appear to have been made to avoid grind, others have been made to embrace grind. It has increased from what we were originally told the game would have (one armor or weapon piece per dungeon run, dyes account locked, maxed gear being easy to get), and I don’t like that direction, nor do I believe it’s healthy for the game. If the team really is ambivalent in this aspect, I would like them to know that at least one person – me – wishes them to go on the direction to reduce grind, not increase it. That’s pretty much all I can do to improve the game.

Vayne.8563:

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

I laughed pretty hard when I read this. Your inability to actually see what the manifesto said and what it means is completely underwhelming. No matter how many times you say that it doesn’t match the manifesto, it doesn’t make you right.

The examples provided by others leave out words, misintepret basic information and completely ignore the explanation that came out immediately following the manifesto in the areas where people were confused. If you don’t want to take into account the very public clarication published immediately after the manifesto came out, I would suggest that’s your problem.

Well it was misinterpreted by a lot of people then, and in exactly the same way, too many for it to be a mistake IMHO. I know how the game was sold to me prior to the BWEs, which includes not just the manifesto but their other statements around that time, and its not the game we have now. It was a clear change in philosophy from anet.

You can rationalise what they said with the benefit of hindsight all you like but at the time they marketed the game a particular way and I believed it due to their track record with GW1, and they have deviated from that for the worse. And like I said above a lot of people interpreted the marketing the same way.

You mean most people have terrible reading comprehension skills. I agree. Most people hear what they want to hear and read what they want to read. My problem is I’m a professional editor and can’t afford to do that.

So because you’re an editor you’re somehow better than the rest of us at comprehending such statements? Such appeals to authority are fallacious by the very fact you feel you have to make it. The way arenanet marketed the game was cut and dried. If it was wrong it was obviously so by what people were writing on internet forums and blogs about the game so they had a chance to correct it and didn’t do so.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.

Irrelevant, tbh. Saying it’s a lie or not is more a discussion about semantics than a discussion about the game.

We know Guild Wars 2 was a work in progress (and is a work in progress). Dyes were originally account-wide and now are character wide; engineers originally had an Absorb skill that was later given to mesmers; ArenaNet claimed they didn’t want players to grind, and now the game has a lot of grind. Are any of those lies? Meh, not really, but what we call them doesn’t matter. I’m more concerned about why did those changes happen, and the impact they had in the game, than in discussing how to call them.

I have a strong feeling that ArenaNet had a conflicting view of the game; some aspects appear to have been made to avoid grind, others have been made to embrace grind. It has increased from what we were originally told the game would have (one armor or weapon piece per dungeon run, dyes account locked, maxed gear being easy to get), and I don’t like that direction, nor do I believe it’s healthy for the game. If the team really is ambivalent in this aspect, I would like them to know that at least one person – me – wishes them to go on the direction to reduce grind, not increase it. That’s pretty much all I can do to improve the game.

Anet said from day one, long before the game launched that there would be things to grind for. This isn’t new information. I know for a fact Eric Flannum stated it in interviews. The entire fractals were designed for the I want to grind crowd.

But calling something a lie isn’t just a matter of semantics. It’s at very least misleading and takes away from any legit argument.

If you want to argue about or discuss the game…argue about and discuss the game. Don’t bring up a 2 year old manifesto that came out before the game launched that is nothing more than a statement of intent anyway.

If you have to resort to the manifesto to make your point, you probably don’t have that much of a point in the first place.

It’s like when you argue with your wife and she brings up stuff you did two years ago that have nothing to do with the current situation. It doesn’t make her right, whether she’s right to be angry or not.

Honestly, I don’t know why I bother, but I’m bored. There is no specific definition for “grind”. (By the way, “this grind” in American slang can also be interpreted as “a grind”, and based on the way the word is used, actually sounds like what is meant here). The word “grind” is only used to describe the context of what exists in “most games”. As you’ve pointed out, you can only assume what “grind” means based on the context. However, the context itself is also open for interpretation. Most importantly, what does “the fun stuff” mean?

Therefore, the fallacy of your argument is that you base a description of a word based on a context that in itself is open for interpretation, then impose that description on the second part of the dialogue, making it only valid to your specific point of view. Additionally, it seems that you attempt to hide this fallacy by trying to convince everyone of your expertise on this subject, claiming what I and others see as your opinion to be fact.

Personally, I don’t really care if the manifesto was a lie or not, but I am concerned that some aspects of it don’t match the game we have now. Whether it was intended or not, a lot of people had the impression after watching the manifesto that there would be little grind in this game in general. I think the most important lesson to take from this topic, regardless of the manifesto, is that many people do feel that a lot grind does exist in this game, and they aren’t happy about it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear to be changing anytime soon, and some have even argued that it’s getting worse. This is why the feel the need to speak out against it. Continually implying it’s their own fault for having these expectations in the first place because they’ve interpreted the manifesto incorrectly isn’t necessarily helping the well-being of the game in general.

Zerbo.5381:

Honestly, I don’t know why I bother, but I’m bored. There is no specific definition for “grind”. (By the way, “this grind” in American slang can also be interpreted as “a grind”, and based on the way the word is used, actually sounds like what is meant here). The word “grind” is only used to describe the context of what exists in “most games”. As you’ve pointed out, you can only assume what “grind” means based on the context. However, the context itself is also open for interpretation. Most importantly, what does “the fun stuff” mean?

Therefore, the fallacy of your argument is that you base a description of a word based on a context that in itself is open for interpretation, then impose that description on the second part of the dialogue, making it only valid to your specific point of view. Additionally, it seems that you attempt to hide this fallacy by trying to convince everyone of your expertise on this subject, claiming what I and others see as your opinion to be fact.

Personally, I don’t really care if the manifesto was a lie or not, but I am concerned that some aspects of it don’t match the game we have now. Whether it was intended or not, a lot of people had the impression after watching the manifesto that there would be little grind in this game in general. I think the most important lesson to take from this topic, regardless of the manifesto, is that many people do feel that a lot grind does exist in this game, and they aren’t happy about it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear to be changing anytime soon, and some have even argued that it’s getting worse. This is why the feel the need to speak out against it. Continually implying it’s their own fault for having these expectations in the first place because they’ve interpreted the manifesto incorrectly isn’t necessarily helping the well-being of the game in general.

I don’t know why you bother either..because you’ve completed ignored my main argument.

As I’ve said, three times now, it doesn’t even MATTER how YOU define grind if the word grind is defined by context in a piece. Colin defined we he was talking about and agree or not, that’s what he was talking about. It’s really really simple.

People seem to ignore the fact that I have spoken out against things in the game. But I won’t stand there and let people say stuff is a lie that’s not a lie because I consider that to be wrong.

And since I’m on these forums like everyone else, I have the right to say when I think something is wrong.

Vayne.8563:

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.

Irrelevant, tbh. Saying it’s a lie or not is more a discussion about semantics than a discussion about the game.

We know Guild Wars 2 was a work in progress (and is a work in progress). Dyes were originally account-wide and now are character wide; engineers originally had an Absorb skill that was later given to mesmers; ArenaNet claimed they didn’t want players to grind, and now the game has a lot of grind. Are any of those lies? Meh, not really, but what we call them doesn’t matter. I’m more concerned about why did those changes happen, and the impact they had in the game, than in discussing how to call them.

I have a strong feeling that ArenaNet had a conflicting view of the game; some aspects appear to have been made to avoid grind, others have been made to embrace grind. It has increased from what we were originally told the game would have (one armor or weapon piece per dungeon run, dyes account locked, maxed gear being easy to get), and I don’t like that direction, nor do I believe it’s healthy for the game. If the team really is ambivalent in this aspect, I would like them to know that at least one person – me – wishes them to go on the direction to reduce grind, not increase it. That’s pretty much all I can do to improve the game.

Anet said from day one, long before the game launched that there would be things to grind for. This isn’t new information. I know for a fact Eric Flannum stated it in interviews. The entire fractals were designed for the I want to grind crowd.

But calling something a lie isn’t just a matter of semantics. It’s at very least misleading and takes away from any legit argument.

If you want to argue about or discuss the game…argue about and discuss the game. Don’t bring up a 2 year old manifesto that came out before the game launched that is nothing more than a statement of intent anyway.

If you have to resort to the manifesto to make your point, you probably don’t have that much of a point in the first place.

It’s like when you argue with your wife and she brings up stuff you did two years ago that have nothing to do with the current situation. It doesn’t make her right, whether she’s right to be angry or not.

Well let’s cut this short then: Most of the living story content that has been released is a grind. Just take a look at the latest addition: Light 100 fireworks. Bash 150 pinatas. Kill 300 Holograms. Get 100000 Zhaitaffy. Yay.
“But it’s content for a whole month so take your time!” Cool. So if I stretch this over a large period of time it suddenly isn’t grind anymore? Nice. Going by this definition, not even asia grinders are grindy. Just take your time, and suddenly it’s not grind anymore. Awesome.

And yes, there would be things to grind for. To please a certain type of crowd. That’s fine. But lately everything ANet has been doing was to add grindy content or prolong existing grind. Slowly nerfing all the farm spots.
“But farming is not grinding!” Well, grinding is killing mobs to level. Farming is killing mobs to acquire items. Both terms mean that you have to kill mobs to achieve something. Kill mobs. Repeatedly. So in essence, grinding is farming and vice versa. It’s just a subtle difference with the core activity staying the same.

We criticize that ANet is turning this game into a grind. With each update a little more. The manifesto is just how the game was supposed to be some time back. It’s like a dream. A dream that got many of us hooked. It’s not a lie, but ANet has strayed from this path and we would like them to get back on.

Vayne.8563:

If you want to argue about or discuss the game…argue about and discuss the game. Don’t bring up a 2 year old manifesto that came out before the game launched that is nothing more than a statement of intent anyway.

(…)

It’s like when you argue with your wife and she brings up stuff you did two years ago that have nothing to do with the current situation. It doesn’t make her right, whether she’s right to be angry or not.

So you think a statement of intent about GW2 has nothing to do with GW2? I see.

RoterFuchs.9216:

Vayne.8563:

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.

Irrelevant, tbh. Saying it’s a lie or not is more a discussion about semantics than a discussion about the game.

We know Guild Wars 2 was a work in progress (and is a work in progress). Dyes were originally account-wide and now are character wide; engineers originally had an Absorb skill that was later given to mesmers; ArenaNet claimed they didn’t want players to grind, and now the game has a lot of grind. Are any of those lies? Meh, not really, but what we call them doesn’t matter. I’m more concerned about why did those changes happen, and the impact they had in the game, than in discussing how to call them.

I have a strong feeling that ArenaNet had a conflicting view of the game; some aspects appear to have been made to avoid grind, others have been made to embrace grind. It has increased from what we were originally told the game would have (one armor or weapon piece per dungeon run, dyes account locked, maxed gear being easy to get), and I don’t like that direction, nor do I believe it’s healthy for the game. If the team really is ambivalent in this aspect, I would like them to know that at least one person – me – wishes them to go on the direction to reduce grind, not increase it. That’s pretty much all I can do to improve the game.

Anet said from day one, long before the game launched that there would be things to grind for. This isn’t new information. I know for a fact Eric Flannum stated it in interviews. The entire fractals were designed for the I want to grind crowd.

But calling something a lie isn’t just a matter of semantics. It’s at very least misleading and takes away from any legit argument.

If you want to argue about or discuss the game…argue about and discuss the game. Don’t bring up a 2 year old manifesto that came out before the game launched that is nothing more than a statement of intent anyway.

If you have to resort to the manifesto to make your point, you probably don’t have that much of a point in the first place.

It’s like when you argue with your wife and she brings up stuff you did two years ago that have nothing to do with the current situation. It doesn’t make her right, whether she’s right to be angry or not.

Well let’s cut this short then: Most of the living story content that has been released is a grind. Just take a look at the latest addition: Light 100 fireworks. Bash 150 pinatas. Kill 300 Holograms. Get 100000 Zhaitaffy. Yay.
“But it’s content for a whole month so take your time!” Cool. So if I stretch this over a large period of time it suddenly isn’t grind anymore? Nice. Going by this definition, not even asia grinders are grindy. Just take your time, and suddenly it’s not grind anymore. Awesome.

And yes, there would be things to grind for. To please a certain type of crowd. That’s fine. But lately everything ANet has been doing was to add grindy content or prolong existing grind. Slowly nerfing all the farm spots.
“But farming is not grinding!” Well, grinding is killing mobs to level. Farming is killing mobs to acquire items. Both terms mean that you have to kill mobs to achieve something. Kill mobs. Repeatedly. So in essence, grinding is farming and vice versa. It’s just a subtle difference with the core activity staying the same.

We criticize that ANet is turning this game into a grind. With each update a little more. The manifesto is just how the game was supposed to be some time back. It’s like a dream. A dream that got many of us hooked. It’s not a lie, but ANet has strayed from this path and we would like them to get back on.

You can actually farm without killing mobs. People farm mats, for example by gathering, which is considered farming, so in that, grinding isn’t the same as farming.

More to the point, you’re making some valid arguments, but none of it has anything to do with the manifesto. Even if everything in this game was different from the manifesto, a two year old statement of intent isn’t relevant at this time.

You can say, I hate the grind and that’s fine. You can say that these new achievements are stupid, and that’s fine.

But once you bring up the manifesto, you’re actually detracting from your argument. Just say you don’t like the grind. Stop bringing the manifesto into it. Because it will end up derailing the conversation. It’s misleading, unnecessary and shouldn’t be brought up.

And every time it does, it’ll end up derailing the argument.

If your facts are good enough, you don’t need hyperbole to make them better.

Vayne.8563:

But combat has nothing at all to do with gear grind. The way people are interpreting it is a lie. It’s not a lie.

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.
Point 2. The game DELIVERS fun stuff in early zones. That happens to be a matter of taste. I never had to go through boring grind to get to the fun stuff. In fact, for most people, the boring grind doesn’t really start until max level. Ergo there’s no lie there.
Point 3. When people use the word lie, they imply intent. There isn’t a person alive who can tell me 100% certain that when Colin said those words he INTENDED to mislead.

If I go and tell my kids I’m going to take them to the movies, and then I get a call and have to go into work, I didn’t lie to them. I told them the truth. The situation changed.

As long as people throw around the word lie, I’ll continue to correct them.

The MOST you could say is that Anet’s intent wasn’t realized. And even that’s a complete matter of opinion.

No one can factually say the manifesto is a lie.

It was a commercial. The intent behind it was to get people to buy the game. It targeted a specific audience (GW1 vets and people tired of standard MMO bullkitten) and portrayed the game as one which would offer a variety of features designed to please that audience (everything you loved about Guild Wars 1! hey, no boring grind to get to the fun stuff! hey, these NPCs remember you! etc.) while dramatically failing to mention things that would not (ascended gear).

The manifesto served its commercial purpose: lots of folks in the targeted audience bought the portrayal, and subsequently bought the game. But when the initial thrill of playing a whole new Guild Wars game wore off, what did they find they had they actually bought? Not much of anything anyone loved about GW 1, a whole heap of boring grinds to get to the fun stuff, tons of NPCs that don’t remember them, and a wide array of standard MMO bullkitten. And ascended gear. And DR. And RNG chests. And temporary content. And that big gaping hole in Divinity’s Reach where a little piece of Cantha used to be.

Was it all a pack of ‘factual’ lies? I say one need only look at what’s come since launch to find the answer.

It doesn’t matter what he said…or indeed what he meant. This game is grindier than R Kelly in a convent school. Fact.

Mr Johansen, him speak with forked tongue.

I just bored myself stupid with another fractals run….it was grindy. Dungeons are grindy. Loot gathering is grindy. Getting Ascended gear is grindy. Getting skins is VERY grindy. The stupid “hit 150 pinatas” repeating rubbish is grindy as hell.

Grind. Grind. Grind. You won’t change my mind.

Calm down people, I watched this trailer for this MMO coming out, and it seems really promising. Can’t wait.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

pricer.5091:

It doesn’t matter what he said…or indeed what he meant. This game is grindier than R Kelly in a convent school. Fact.

Mr Johansen, him speak with forked tongue.

I just bored myself stupid with another fractals run….it was grindy. Dungeons are grindy. Loot gathering is grindy. Getting Ascended gear is grindy. Getting skins is VERY grindy. The stupid “hit 150 pinatas” repeating rubbish is grindy as hell.

Grind. Grind. Grind. You won’t change my mind.

have you played any other MMOs?

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But combat has nothing at all to do with gear grind. The way people are interpreting it is a lie. It’s not a lie.

Point 1. Look up manifesto. It’s a statement of intent, not a guarantee of delivery.
Point 2. The game DELIVERS fun stuff in early zones. That happens to be a matter of taste. I never had to go through boring grind to get to the fun stuff. In fact, for most people, the boring grind doesn’t really start until max level. Ergo there’s no lie there.
Point 3. When people use the word lie, they imply intent. There isn’t a person alive who can tell me 100% certain that when Colin said those words he INTENDED to mislead.

If I go and tell my kids I’m going to take them to the movies, and then I get a call and have to go into work, I didn’t lie to them. I told them the truth. The situation changed.

As long as people throw around the word lie, I’ll continue to correct them.

The MOST you could say is that Anet’s intent wasn’t realized. And even that’s a complete matter of opinion.

No one can factually say the manifesto is a lie.

It was a commercial. The intent behind it was to get people to buy the game. It targeted a specific audience (GW1 vets and people tired of standard MMO bullkitten) and portrayed the game as one which would offer a variety of features designed to please that audience (everything you loved about Guild Wars 1! hey, no boring grind to get to the fun stuff! hey, these NPCs remember you! etc.) while dramatically failing to mention things that would not (ascended gear).

The manifesto served its commercial purpose: lots of folks in the targeted audience bought the portrayal, and subsequently bought the game. But when the initial thrill of playing a whole new Guild Wars game wore off, what did they find they had they actually bought? Not much of anything anyone loved about GW 1, a whole heap of boring grinds to get to the fun stuff, tons of NPCs that don’t remember them, and a wide array of standard MMO bullkitten. And ascended gear. And DR. And RNG chests. And temporary content. And that big gaping hole in Divinity’s Reach where a little piece of Cantha used to be.

Was it all a pack of ‘factual’ lies? I say one need only look at what’s come since launch to find the answer.

First, I disagree with your assessement. I’m a Guild Wars 1 player. I’ve got 50/50 in my HoM. I’ve got my GWAMM title. I disagree with your assessment. Particularly the boring grind to get to the fun stuff comment.

See that’s opinion, not fact…because I don’t see a legendary as fun stuff. It’s an item. And Guild Wars 1 had plenty of grind to get to certain items. Unless you happened to get frog scepters, celestial compasses and voltaic spear drops all the time, which I’m sure you didn’t.

Guild Wars 1 had grind for items. We have grind for items here. Imagine that. And getting something wrong still doesn’t imply lying.

Just about everything in that manifesto trailer is absolute lies.

“We dont want you to kill aboss and have him spawn ten minutes later”

“When you rescue a village, that village stays rescued and the people remember you”

“You affect the world”

“We dont make grindy games”

LOL. Vayne…keep going, you are making yourself look faintly silly. Forget the grind for “stuff”…the actual game itself falls short on EVERY single thing it was meant to be by a country mile.

And yes, I have played many MMO’s and to a degree they were all grindy, but then they didnt fall over themsleves to tell me they weren’t.

pricer.5091:

Just about everything in that manifesto trailer is absolute lies.

“We dont want you to kill aboss and have him spawn ten minutes later”

“When you rescue a village, that village stays rescued and the people remember you”

“You affect the world”

“We dont make grindy games”

LOL. Vayne…keep going, you are making yourself look faintly silly. Forget the grind for “stuff”…the actual game itself falls short on EVERY single thing it was meant to be by a country mile.

And yes, I have played many MMO’s and to a degree they were all grindy, but then they didnt fall over themsleves to tell me they weren’t.

Lie still implies intent. A manifesto is a statement of intent not a guarantee of delivery. There’s nothing about the manifesto that is a lie. At the most, all you can say is that an intent to deliver something went awry.

Unless you can PROVE intent to deceive? No?

I didn’t think so.

Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.

Edit: And you should definitely see if you can find the clarification that was published immediately after, because many people were confused. Colin is talking about dynamic events, Ree is talking about personal story.

Vayne.8563:

Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.

Show. Don’t tell.

1. rule for writers.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.

Show. Don’t tell.

1. rule for writers.

I’ve shown. I don’t have to keep showing.

If you call someone a liar, the onus of PROOF is on you. Prove intent. Simple.

Anyway, writing fiction isn’t the same as writing forum posts. Nice try though.

Hiding facts behind semantics doesn’t alter them. The fact is that the game was promised as something it simply isn’t. Much like a political manifesto, you might argue…hiding the promises behind the words “manifesto” still doesn’t make the failure to deliver anything but lies.

And in fact, it doesnt matter whether there was intent to deceive. The lack of delivery is failure, whether intentional or not.

Promising to over-deliver has been the downfall of many political parties and will be the downfall of this game ultimately. People would still have played had they simply said “Hey we made an MMO, with..you know…MMO stuff in it”

“Lies are not lies if the intention of the lies are good. "
They’re still lies hypocrites.
They failed to deliver what they hoped to achieve/what they promised.
That or I played the wrong game.

pricer.5091:

Hiding facts behind semantics doesn’t alter them. The fact is that the game was promised as something it simply isn’t. Much like a political manifesto, you might argue…hiding the promises behind the words “manifesto” still doesn’t make the failure to deliver anything but lies.

I disagree that the game was promised to be something it isn’t. Straight out disagree. You’re hiding behind words and semantics too, trying to change what’s said to mean something different.

But that doesn’t actually change it’s meaning.

Probably, without the clarification Anet issued, you’d have more of a point.

You cant disagree. The video is on Youtube for all to see. It is a factual entity that you are not entitled to dismiss. It makes statements that are false. As are you.

ANet making clarifications after people have already bought the game is nothing more than cowardly dishonesty…which is even worse.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.

Show. Don’t tell.

1. rule for writers.

I’ve shown. I don’t have to keep showing.

If you call someone a liar, the onus of PROOF is on you. Prove intent. Simple.

Anyway, writing fiction isn’t the same as writing forum posts. Nice try though.

Sigh.

“Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.”

Do as I say, not as I do.

1. rule for forum posters.

Now do you get it?

pricer.5091:

You cant disagree. The video is on Youtube for all to see. It is a factual entity that you are not entitled to dismiss. It makes statements that are false. As are you.

ANet making clarifications after people have already bought the game is nothing more than cowardly dishonesty…which is even worse.

See saying “cowardly dishonesty” shows your views are so one sided that you cant be trusted at all for any type of prospective. Anet in your eyes can never do right and i images there are a lot of things in your life you feel the same way as you do with Anet. But what your doing at the end of the day is just slowly closing off life from your self your going to end very lonely at this rate.

pricer.5091:

You cant disagree. The video is on Youtube for all to see. It is a factual entity that you are not entitled to dismiss. It makes statements that are false. As are you.

ANet making clarifications after people have already bought the game is nothing more than cowardly dishonesty…which is even worse.

Anet made the clarification long long before the game went on sale. Anet went to great lengths since then to tell people EXACTLY how dynamic events function and exactly how personal stories worked.

Anyone who just watched the manifesto, without looking into the game at all is an idiot anyway.

People didn’t know that events would ping pong back and forth between end points, or repeat? Crap.

People didn’t know we’d have less skills than Guild Wars 1? Crap.

People didn’t know skills would be linked to weapons? Crap.

The manifesto came out in 2010. There is so much that came out after that clarified every single point about this game.

Do you even realize how long two years is in this industry?

Jski.6180:

pricer.5091:

You cant disagree. The video is on Youtube for all to see. It is a factual entity that you are not entitled to dismiss. It makes statements that are false. As are you.

ANet making clarifications after people have already bought the game is nothing more than cowardly dishonesty…which is even worse.

See saying “cowardly dishonesty” shows your views are so one sided that you cant be trusted at all for any type of prospective. Anet in your eyes can never do right and i images there are a lot of things in your life you feel the same way as you do with Anet. But what your doing at the end of the day is just slowly closing off life from your self your going to end very lonely at this rate.

I actually laughed. Im closing off “life” from myself because I’m angry I spent money and continued to spend money on a game that lied to me. Wow, I’ll think twice before sending my next bad meal back in case the restaraunt staff don’t like me anymore. I might cry. Get a grip, you’ve lost the plot.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.

Show. Don’t tell.

1. rule for writers.

I’ve shown. I don’t have to keep showing.

If you call someone a liar, the onus of PROOF is on you. Prove intent. Simple.

Anyway, writing fiction isn’t the same as writing forum posts. Nice try though.

Sigh.

“Repeating a word over and over again doesn’t make it true.”

Do as I say, not as I do.

1. rule for forum posters.

Now do you get it?

I’m repeating what I repeat, in response to what other people repeat. I do this all the time. It’s called irony.

Someone insults me and I use the exact same line to insult them back.

I get what you’re saying. As long as people continue to use hyperbole and say ridiculous stuff, I’ll be here saying what I say.

Deal with it.

pricer.5091:

Jski.6180:

pricer.5091:

You cant disagree. The video is on Youtube for all to see. It is a factual entity that you are not entitled to dismiss. It makes statements that are false. As are you.

ANet making clarifications after people have already bought the game is nothing more than cowardly dishonesty…which is even worse.

See saying “cowardly dishonesty” shows your views are so one sided that you cant be trusted at all for any type of prospective. Anet in your eyes can never do right and i images there are a lot of things in your life you feel the same way as you do with Anet. But what your doing at the end of the day is just slowly closing off life from your self your going to end very lonely at this rate.

I actually laughed. Im closing off “life” from myself because I’m angry I spent money and continued to spend money on a game that lied to me. Wow, I’ll think twice before sending my next bad meal back in case the restaraunt staff don’t like me anymore. I might cry. Get a grip, you’ve lost the plot.

Maybe one day, you’ll understand the definition of lie. Ironically you might then realize that you’re telling them now.

Its tragic that you can’t accept that this game you like so much has so many other people so bored they can’t even play it for more than ten minutes. Even more tragic you have to spend half your time on forums defending a company that doesn’t care about you.

pricer.5091:

Its tragic that you can’t accept that this game you like so much has so many other people so bored they can’t even play it for more than ten minutes. Even more tragic you have to spend half your time on forums defending a company that doesn’t care about you.

I not only accept it, I agree with it. I agree with what you say here. Not the part about Anet not caring (if nothing else they care because they want more money), but the rest of it, I agree.

Many people find this game boring. See, I can agree with this, because it’s a statement of fact. I’m sure it’s true. I don’t CARE that some people or even that many people don’t like it.

But in the past I’ve been called a liar before by people who were simply wrong. That is to say, I said something in good faith, a situation changed and people called me a liar. I don’t like it done to me, I don’t think it should be done to other people either.

The only people I currently call liars are people I know for a fact intended to mislead me, or those who call other liars without actually knowing if they are or not.

pricer.5091:

Jski.6180:

pricer.5091:

You cant disagree. The video is on Youtube for all to see. It is a factual entity that you are not entitled to dismiss. It makes statements that are false. As are you.

ANet making clarifications after people have already bought the game is nothing more than cowardly dishonesty…which is even worse.

See saying “cowardly dishonesty” shows your views are so one sided that you cant be trusted at all for any type of prospective. Anet in your eyes can never do right and i images there are a lot of things in your life you feel the same way as you do with Anet. But what your doing at the end of the day is just slowly closing off life from your self your going to end very lonely at this rate.

I actually laughed. Im closing off “life” from myself because I’m angry I spent money and continued to spend money on a game that lied to me. Wow, I’ll think twice before sending my next bad meal back in case the restaraunt staff don’t like me anymore. I might cry. Get a grip, you’ve lost the plot.

In a way your too destroying ppl haplessness and making them waist there money by putting such thoughtless comments on these forums GW2 is about being nice and enjoying being in a community and at best you done nothing but pushed that community away. When was the last nice thing you have post on these forums heck any forums?

GW2 is not about being nice (I know, because its doesnt say so in the manifesto). I think you must have it confused with “My Little Pony: The MMO”. Like most peopIe I say nice things about things I like. I complain about things I don’t.

The only reason I post on this forum at all is (like the thousands of other people who make the same complaints) to attempt to get change. As it’s the only communication channel available with the company that make the game I dont think this is unreasonable.

EDIT: I have in fact said nice things about this game. Ill repeat them. The art direction is superb. The environments, characters and animations are top of the league. The lore is great. All of the basics are excellent. Which is why I am so annoyed that more isn’t being done with them.

pricer.5091:

GW2 is not about being nice (I know, because its doesnt say so in the manifesto). I think you must have it confused with “My Little Pony: The MMO”. Like most peopIe I say nice things about things I like. I complain about things I don’t.

The only reason I post on this forum at all is (like the thousands of other people who make the same complaints) to attempt to get change. As it’s the only communication channel available with the company that make the game I dont think this is unreasonable.

I agree. Without the hyperbole and the stupid stuff people say, it’s perfectly reasonable. Being offensive for no real reason other than you think it’s okay to be that way?

Not so much.

I haven’t been offensive to anyone. Not you, the company or anyone.

But then I’m not the lollipop man who lives on candy lane either.

Vayne.8563:

Without the hyperbole and the stupid stuff people say, it’s perfectly reasonable. Being offensive for no real reason other than you think it’s okay to be that way?

Not so much.

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who just watched the manifesto, without looking into the game at all is an idiot anyway.

People didn’t know that events would ping pong back and forth between end points, or repeat? Crap.

People didn’t know we’d have less skills than Guild Wars 1? Crap.

People didn’t know skills would be linked to weapons? Crap.

Vayne.8563:

It’s called irony.

Deal with it.

“Is it any wonder that my joke’s an iron?” ~ Buck Dharma

Suggestion: why not have a complaints part of the forum? That way there would be no need fro everybody to argue about whether or not someone has a valid complaint and the developers could actually answer the complaint themselves.

Because you guys who are basically wasting your time telling people who want the game changed because they dont like it that they are wrong are accomplishing nothing at all. If someone has a problem, telling them they shouldn;t have a problem is really not the answer.

We’re all wasting our time here. The complainers are wasting there time because the answers they get dont help them and aren’t official. The defenders are wasting there time because of exactly the same reason.

Why not just flag complaints threads as threads for people who are actually complaining? The all of the people who are allegedly enjoying the game so much can get back to playing it and not having to come up with some objection every time someone has a problem?

A complaints section of the forum? How silly.

We should have a non-complaints section. The rest of the forum IS complaints. lol

There is no happy medium.
If they add content next month, you will have people who go to dulfy in droves, find out how to do it all as fast as possible, then complain there’s nothing to do while the casuals enjoy it a while.
If they add hard and time consuming content, those same people might enjoy it and stay and not complain…..but then the casuals complain they can’t do it.
The wide audience an MMO has to try to appeal to in itself makes it impossible to do so.

And grind is a relative term. You’ll never get a consensus on it’s definition. Repeating the same raids over and over for a new tier of gear is pointless grind to me, but to others thats what they want at endgame. Some people don’t consider the daily a grind and others do.
Given the wide range of MMO’s out there, each one is more tailored to a specific playstyle. It’s more realistic to find one that fits you than have one conform to the way you want it. Yes, Anet needs to keep people playing and buying the game, but there’s simply no way they can appeal to absolutely everyone.
Look at these forums. While they represent a small portion of the actual playerbase and in no way represents the majority feelings given we can’t know them, the complaints are split as it is. Some people like the daily system, some don’t. Some like dungeons, some don’t. Some like the meta events, some dont. Some like the living story, some don’t.
If they change anything major, nothing gets ‘better’, the complaints just shift to a new demographic.

Or they can just copy paste UW and FoW into GW,
No, never mind, with the current combat mechanics and annoying bosses that wouldn’t work.
Plus, people would cry like back when Clock Tower JP was added, those horrible player who cried… I guess that’s why they have not added anything hard anymore, that and they cant.

Tachenon.5270:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Erasculio.2914:

Case in point, someone hearing Colin saying “We don’t want players to grind” and making up all kinds of excuses as to why no, it doesn’t mean that ArenaNet does not want players to grind. Denial must be a great thing.

Context is important. It is pretty clear if you actually take into account everything Colin said in that segment it is obvious that he was talking about grinding to unlock content, like gear gating or raid progression. And when was the last time you needed to grind to reach new content in Guild Wars 2?

I’ve been through one of the paths in Twilight Arbor three times now and still don’t have enough dungeon tokens or whatever they are to get ONE lousy stinking piece of Twilight Arbor armor. Armor, to me, is content – see also: fun stuff – that I can only get to in this game if I repeat a particular activity repeatedly (see also: grind).

So then you admit that your argument is based around subjective opinions. Those kinds of things will always happen, and it doesn’t mean anyone is at fault. You’re certainly not at fault for feeling like those skins are content you must grind for, just as Arena Net and those with the same opinion -myself included- are not at fault for feeling like skins are not content but rather rewards for completing content.

That sort of thinking is why I don’t farm dungeons. The dungeons are the content, and I run a dungeon only when I actually want to run that dungeon without thought of the rewards. If I farmed them or grind for this or that reward item (there is a pair of boots I’m after, I admit) then the dungeon would quickly loose its appeal. So I certainly understand where you’re coming from there, but at the same time I have no sympathy for people who complain because their opinion conflicts with someone else’s.

Figured I’d do a list for anyone involved with development:

1. Add permanent, challenging content. Not hard, not casual, challenging content, that needs group mechanics to work. One that is thoroughly tested so it cannot be done by just stacking up or exploiting or the like.
– I’m adding the question here: why is there no PBE environment for this game? League of Legends has one and it’s greatly improving Riot’s relationship with the community. Without a place for dedicated testers to see the changes before they’re implemented, you’re basically hoping that what you’ve read on GD is sufficient. That is NOT how you handle improvements to the game. No one opinion, including mine, will surpass the opinion of multiple, dedicated players who have enough time to review the changes and give feedback.

2. Make world events fun and exciting. This is a core issue and it stems from the whole philosophy of the game. So I’ll break down what’s wrong here:
– Defiant. With bosses being almost entirely immune to CC, you are rendering a huge, so called, “control” group of skills in the game usekitten sses become the very definition of “bullet sponges”. You’re not interacting with the boss, you’re just slowly whittling down his health because you cannot do anything else. Give me the option to interrupt a critical, highly-damaging attack. I understand that, currently, world events are massive zerg fests and this will result in bosses being permanently stun-locked. I’m not asking for that. I want simple interrupts that require awareness during the fight.
– DPS over Survivability because of the nature of downed state. First of all, I don’t think Downed State was a wrong move, quite the contrary, it actually encourages teamwork and I feel like I’m really helping someone out. This is good. What’s not is having a billion health while in Downed State and allowing several people to rez without any real repercussions other than instant death after several downs.

3. Add some form of meaningful distinction that is not based on stats. You made this platform with the personal story where we choose who we want to support and what we want to do. Did it matter, ultimately? Give us special titles for acting in a certain way or signing up with this specific character. Right now all titles are, arguably, grind-based. You wanted an MMO that had character and personal involvement- well, make it so!

4. Give us quality things to spend our money on. What is this fresh perversion, paying money for RNG boxes? This encourages virtual gambling, which is basically catering to, sorry for saying so, people who don’t know what to do with what they have. The advertising itself is offensive to fans. I want to support you, but you’re not giving me any reason to. Gambling is like heavily sexualized advertising – the majority of people are susceptible to it, it’s just there to bring profit. Use it with measure – you need money, I get it. But every box you introduce to the market brings negativity, even amongst those who don’t buy into it. You know what this speaks to the self-aware player? That you cannot offer anything more meaningful to hold one’s interest and so you resort to tried-and-tested methods, one of which is gambling. You are catering to a harmful addiction and this trend increases with every new update. Again, I think the Nexon lady is in charge of that, I’m not sure, I don’t know if you have any say in it, but those are the cold hard facts and if you HAVE to have gambling in your game, then add options for those who would rather just spend money and be guaranteed on their investment.
– So what sort of gem store items could be interesting? Take note from Lineage, since nowadays you’re fond of going back to old, successful models – things that signal a distinct look. Aura effects, custom animations, profession- themed armor and weapon skins, armor and weapon skins in general. A player would pay for a unique look, especially since it’s so hard to distinguish between professions based on looks alone. I don’t know if anyone buys town clothes- I’ve never seen anyone wear them, but maybe it’s different with your main market which is Korea.

5. Give meaning to the world we’re exploring. Making lasting consequences to failing an event is wrong because there are servers with low population. What I suggest is merely increasing the rewards for level 80 players doing events in low-level zones. That’s not impossible, right?

I want to ask, what was your purpose with Guild Wars 2? First you say you don’t want people farming. Then all the content you provide us with is just farming. There’s even a red post that states “we care about farming”. Then you nerf the farming spots, but only the ones players venture and discover on their own, never the ones that are massively exploited <cough>… no, no coughing. Why haven’t you fixed CoF Path 1? The mentality of easily available money is so heavily cemented in people’s minds now that they refuse to join for engaging events such as Grenth. They stack on the world boss or just roll their zerker Warrior and make 50 gold a day from CoF. You don’t want to reward players easily, but then you go ahead and do exactly that! I’m sorry if I’m being emotional, but this is so mind-blowing, it’s like the development team got split on their decisions and just went with it! You are making the game anti-fun, when you already have the setting for an amazing experience. What are you doing, Arena.NET? Who would abandon years of design work in favor of… this?!

I won’t comment on WvW and PvP. I appreciate the effort you’re putting in PvP with the shoutcaster program and the custom arenas. PvP will remain the ultimate challenge in any game and I’m glad you’re improving it, even if the purpose is entirely confusing (this game will never be an E-sport, which is NOT a bad thing, but it’s the reality). As for World vs World, the principle of zerg-fests > strategy still applies, although you are working to improve it, so I have no complaints here.

Communicate with us! Not the people who live in a fairy tale, play 15 minutes a day and think everything’s OK. Not the people who bash on your decisions with absolutely no arguments. Talk to the ones who care about Guild Wars 2, because, quoting Dontain, “criticism helps things grow”.