Yes, the Dev’s REALLY need to tighten up their designing to prevent grieving. Especially as the game’s population dwindles, the ratio of good players to trolls, appears to be shifting more toward trolls. There are simply less good players to keep this type of occurrences from happening.
As far as parties go all I can say is… Be careful who you associate yourself with.
It totally sucks that there are people out there that do things like this, but that is the world we live in …. and no surprise the world we play in too.
Don’t sell loot slots? Then you won’t be surprised when people that cheese loot are less than spectacular.
This is the kind of attitude that the people who ruined your party have, OP.
Sadly many of the community feel threatened by the selling of dungeon slots, even if it does not affect them at all. So threatened in fact that they take the time out of their day to grief you because you are doing something that upsets them. This is an emotional thing for them. This is how they cope with their personal problem, by screwing over other people
My advice to you is to have a network of friends who will sit in your party and fill slots for you so that you can trickle in buyers one by one, or have them set up a proxy party to take in buyers and forward the money and customers to you.
And you picked me out why? I’m not threatened, I’m not jealous, I’m not impressed by 2nd rate armchair psychologists.
I’m just not in favor of content selling. But go ahead and do it. No skin off my nose, I don’t need it. It’s pay to win. No different than the guy selling gold or character level ups IMO. Pay someone advance your Character. It’s not “community service”. Its making money giving a Dungeon completion reward to someone who didn’t earn it. Be honest, at least, about the business you are in.
You are selling to people who think they deserve content rewards without doing the content. And so my point was… why are you all shocked that some go the next logical step to get them without paying? It’s like those people who get “hacked” dealing with gold sellers. No pity from me.
Target Market. They aren’t griefing, they are scamming you out of a free run. Its the nature of the business and the customer it attracts.
/kick needs fixed. But not because a runner got scammed. Anet has never cared that runners got scammed. Neither do I.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
Don’t sell loot slots? Then you won’t be surprised when people that cheese loot are less than spectacular.
This is the kind of attitude that the people who ruined your party have, OP.
Sadly many of the community feel threatened by the selling of dungeon slots, even if it does not affect them at all. So threatened in fact that they take the time out of their day to grief you because you are doing something that upsets them. This is an emotional thing for them. This is how they cope with their personal problem, by screwing over other people
My advice to you is to have a network of friends who will sit in your party and fill slots for you so that you can trickle in buyers one by one, or have them set up a proxy party to take in buyers and forward the money and customers to you.
And you picked me out why? I’m not threatened, I’m not jealous, I’m not impressed by 2nd rate armchair psychologists.
I’m just not in favor of content selling. But go ahead and do it. No skin off my nose, I don’t need it. It’s pay to win.
You are selling to people who think they deserve content rewards without doing the content. And so my point was… why are you all shocked that some go the next logical step to get them without paying?
Target Market. They aren’t griefing, they are scamming you out of a free run. Its the nature of the business and the customer it attracts.
/kick needs fixed. But not because a runner got scammed.
Knew you would respond in this manner too :) I think I’m a pretty first rate armchair mindbrain tyvm.
And you picked me out why? I’m not threatened, I’m not jealous, I’m not impressed by 2nd rate armchair psychologists.
I’m just not in favor of content selling. But go ahead and do it. No skin off my nose, I don’t need it. It’s pay to win.
You are selling to people who think they deserve content rewards without doing the content. And so my point was… why are you all shocked that some go the next logical step to get them without paying?
Target Market. They aren’t griefing, they are scamming you out of a free run. Its the nature of the business and the customer it attracts.
/kick needs fixed. But not because a runner got scammed.
I dont do Arah for skins; I do PVP reward tracks for them. Not pay to win but no content involved. And I play MM Necro too.
Apologies to those who may find my posts on GW2 forums offensive and hateful.
Alas, someone above was right: “If players can abuse some function, it is assumed they will.” In this case, it’s how the kick system works. In other games it was how a /report could stop the game for someone if it was written just a certain way to trigger a live GM response to investigate.
The kick system needs work, and there should be a revamp so the instance creator can’t be dumped on the side of the road by a mutiny. At the same time? I suspect if players really try hard they’ll get gullible or people ignorant of what they’re doing to do it to themselves.
Anyone remember the scamming of Althea’s Ashes, Globs of Ectoplasm, and other things in GW1 when there actually was a trade system . . . and ANet’s answer being effectively: “Don’t do anything if your common sense says it’s a bad idea, and check all trades before accepting.”
I’m seriously not sure which scam was worse – something which looked alike and had a different name which you could tell if you moused over it to check . . . or “my trade window is bugged, drop it on the ground and I’ll drop the money”.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
Don’t sell loot slots? Then you won’t be surprised when people that cheese loot are less than spectacular.
This is the kind of attitude that the people who ruined your party have, OP.
Sadly many of the community feel threatened by the selling of dungeon slots, even if it does not affect them at all. So threatened in fact that they take the time out of their day to grief you because you are doing something that upsets them. This is an emotional thing for them. This is how they cope with their personal problem, by screwing over other people
My advice to you is to have a network of friends who will sit in your party and fill slots for you so that you can trickle in buyers one by one, or have them set up a proxy party to take in buyers and forward the money and customers to you.
And you picked me out why? I’m not threatened, I’m not jealous, I’m not impressed by 2nd rate armchair psychologists.
I’m just not in favor of content selling. But go ahead and do it. No skin off my nose, I don’t need it. It’s pay to win.
You are selling to people who think they deserve content rewards without doing the content. And so my point was… why are you all shocked that some go the next logical step to get them without paying?
Target Market. They aren’t griefing, they are scamming you out of a free run. Its the nature of the business and the customer it attracts.
/kick needs fixed. But not because a runner got scammed.
Knew you would respond in this manner too I think I’m a pretty first rate armchair mindbrain tyvm.
Then why post? You only embarrassed yourself.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
Alas, someone above was right: “If players can abuse some function, it is assumed they will.” In this case, it’s how the kick system works. In other games it was how a /report could stop the game for someone if it was written just a certain way to trigger a live GM response to investigate.
The kick system needs work, and there should be a revamp so the instance creator can’t be dumped on the side of the road by a mutiny. At the same time? I suspect if players really try hard they’ll get gullible or people ignorant of what they’re doing to do it to themselves.
Anyone remember the scamming of Althea’s Ashes, Globs of Ectoplasm, and other things in GW1 when there actually was a trade system . . . and ANet’s answer being effectively: “Don’t do anything if your common sense says it’s a bad idea, and check all trades before accepting.”
I’m seriously not sure which scam was worse – something which looked alike and had a different name which you could tell if you moused over it to check . . . or “my trade window is bugged, drop it on the ground and I’ll drop the money”.
It boggles me the instance creator can ever be kicked. Dunno what they were thinking there. If creator drops out for whatever.. that’s different. Kicked.. no.
I remember the GW scams. Drop the item so I can see it… yoink. How anyone fell for that is beyond me. Or “Trading pre gold for post. Yah, just trade me the gold and I’ll get right on my Pre char and pay ya”
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
Well first let’s address the fact that Warriors are still so OP that they can solo dungeons period. That’s not part of a normal game design and no don’t insult our intelligence by acting like it’s supposed to be happening. It is however disturbing that there’s a ton of things wrong with Engineers yet warriors are allowed to continue to run amok like this.
Second, selling slots in dungeons really? That’s what this game has turned into? I guess they really haven’t been paying attention to their game much less their forums to allow this kind of thing to continue.
First of all, I hope you realize that warriors aren’t the only profession to solo dungeons. Secondly I hope you realize that in Guild Wars 1, years ago, people sold runs and did the same thing.
Claiming this is a sign of Anet paying attention is a sign you know less about the franchise than you think you do.
Don’t sell loot slots? Then you won’t be surprised when people that cheese loot are less than spectacular.
This is the kind of attitude that the people who ruined your party have, OP.
Sadly many of the community feel threatened by the selling of dungeon slots, even if it does not affect them at all. So threatened in fact that they take the time out of their day to grief you because you are doing something that upsets them. This is an emotional thing for them. This is how they cope with their personal problem, by screwing over other people
My advice to you is to have a network of friends who will sit in your party and fill slots for you so that you can trickle in buyers one by one, or have them set up a proxy party to take in buyers and forward the money and customers to you.
And you picked me out why? I’m not threatened, I’m not jealous, I’m not impressed by 2nd rate armchair psychologists.
I’m just not in favor of content selling. But go ahead and do it. No skin off my nose, I don’t need it. It’s pay to win.
You are selling to people who think they deserve content rewards without doing the content. And so my point was… why are you all shocked that some go the next logical step to get them without paying?
Target Market. They aren’t griefing, they are scamming you out of a free run. Its the nature of the business and the customer it attracts.
/kick needs fixed. But not because a runner got scammed.
Knew you would respond in this manner too I think I’m a pretty first rate armchair mindbrain tyvm.
Then why post? You only embarrassed yourself.
How? I’m having a ball.
Also why keep responding if you think you’ve made your point?
Couple of minor things im confused with here.
1. I thought if the dungeon opener left the group then everyone else was kicked from the dungeon? If this is true then the two people who joined killed the dungeon for the entire party which is clearly griefing.
2. I thought a kick required two yes votes, i.e it requires someone to start the vote and two people to hit “yes” so the OP is wrong, it was 3 ppl not two involved.
3. The OP says “Im new to this game”, this doesnt seem right as to solo AC Px requires some skill and a well geared char.
4. Many people have implied that selling dungeons is like selling runs in GW1, this is not true as runs in GW1 rewarded no money/xp they just got you to another town. Main reason why ppl buy dungeons in GW2 is XP (I think), and you are able to buy game gold with real money then use game gold to buy dungeon runs so its totally different. Also many of the utub guides to solo dungeon play involve expolits so its not always “skill” either.
Recommended changes –
A. Make it impossible to kick the dungeon opener – instead give the group a warning that they are trying to kick the dungeon opener. There is no reason why the group cant all quit and reform without the dungeon opener.
B. Make it such that you only get the xp from a dungeon if you contribute to that dungeon. e.g. you did reasonable damage to the final boss (like you dont get credit for champ kills if you do flip all damage). This is reasonable as we are talking about XP which is experience i.e. being at the dungeon entrance while someone takes the last 5% of the final bosses hp “teaches you nothing”. Allow people to get credit for the dungeon (achieve, ability to open if its story etc) no probs, but nerf the xp for ppl that dont contribute, its both a reward they dont deserve and one they should not be able to buy.
Edited as I said AC P3 not AC P1 (changed to AC PX to indicate any path in AC)
Well first let’s address the fact that Warriors are still so OP that they can solo dungeons period. That’s not part of a normal game design and no don’t insult our intelligence by acting like it’s supposed to be happening. It is however disturbing that there’s a ton of things wrong with Engineers yet warriors are allowed to continue to run amok like this.
Second, selling slots in dungeons really? That’s what this game has turned into? I guess they really haven’t been paying attention to their game much less their forums to allow this kind of thing to continue.
First of all, I hope you realize that warriors aren’t the only profession to solo dungeons. Secondly I hope you realize that in Guild Wars 1, years ago, people sold runs and did the same thing.
Claiming this is a sign of Anet paying attention is a sign you know less about the franchise than you think you do.
In Guild Wars, people have always sold runs.
And when they got scammed, Anet said it wasn’t their problem.
They did address it somewhat as well. Only Proph allowed skipping missions. Running is very hard to police, I don’t think they could have enforced any rule against it.
They did try to enforce non participants in JQ and FA, but the dishonor system was a mess.
Running missions never stopped. Running dungeons never stopped. Stop trying to make this something that wasn’t prevalant there.
I didn’t like it myself, but you couldn’t go into an outpost without listening to people spamming a run or looking for a runner.
Well first let’s address the fact that Warriors are still so OP that they can solo dungeons period. That’s not part of a normal game design and no don’t insult our intelligence by acting like it’s supposed to be happening. It is however disturbing that there’s a ton of things wrong with Engineers yet warriors are allowed to continue to run amok like this.
Second, selling slots in dungeons really? That’s what this game has turned into? I guess they really haven’t been paying attention to their game much less their forums to allow this kind of thing to continue.
First of all, I hope you realize that warriors aren’t the only profession to solo dungeons. Secondly I hope you realize that in Guild Wars 1, years ago, people sold runs and did the same thing.
Claiming this is a sign of Anet paying attention is a sign you know less about the franchise than you think you do.
In Guild Wars, people have always sold runs.
And when they got scammed, Anet said it wasn’t their problem.
They did address it somewhat as well. Only Proph allowed skipping missions. Running is very hard to police, I don’t think they could have enforced any rule against it.
They did try to enforce non participants in JQ and FA, but the dishonor system was a mess.
Running missions never stopped. Running dungeons never stopped. Stop trying to make this something that wasn’t prevalant there.
I didn’t like it myself, but you couldn’t go into an outpost without listening to people spamming a run or looking for a runner.
When did I EVER say it wasn’t common and a massive practice there? It was.
It did change, slightly. You couldn’t be ran to the endgame in Factions or NF by skipping missions entirely like Proph. That did not stop the required missions from being run, but at least people had to enter them and “someone” had to beat the mission.
In Proph you could sear, get ran to TH keep, do 4 missions (or get run) and “beat” the game. Anet fixed that huge content skip. Thats it. That is all I was referring to.
I honestly do not get how you got the idea I was saying it was less prevalent there. It is far LESS prevalent in GW2.
And there, like here, ironically, some of the same “pro” gamers that ran people complained about “scrubs” ruining endgame. Gee, how did they get there?
As customers, sometimes. They never learned to play being ran.
Okay I’ll break it down for you. Some guy said, pretty much a quote, that Anet isn’t keeping an eye on the game because they allowed this.
I pointed out they allowed it and it was prevalent in Guild Wars 1 too. I was ONLY responding to the comment that Anet isn’t watching because this is going on. It’s patently untrue. That’s the end of it.
You chose to respond to me. I’m not for it. I’m against it. I’ve never liked runs. But I said something completely reasonable, against someone’s completely unreasonable assumption. Why contradict me? Why even answer it, when it was true?
I just find people who buy dungeon slots in GW2 lamentable. It is possibly understandable if they wanted Arah skins before PVP reward track was introduced because there would be no other ways of getting the skins and are unwilling to grind Arah with PUGs for tokens but now there can be no excuse.
Do you know how much time you need to spend playing sPvP in order to get a full set of dungeon armor? Six full reward track completions because every track completion gives you a single piece of armor. And lets face it, sPvP currently isn’t exactly in it’s best shape you know. You might spend more time losing not because you don’t know how to play but because sPvP has serious issues with matchmaking and people behavior in anything other than Team Arena.
OP, next time you wanna sell, all you need is one trusted friend to act as a proxy group for you.
1. you complete the dungeon and are ready to sell
2. have friend wait outside and advertise on LFG for you
3. buyers will join friend’s group, then pay the friend
4. friend tells you buyer’s name, and you invite him to your group
5. repeat until you have 5 buyers who have already paid
This way, if trolls want to troll, then they’ll at worst kick your friend who’s outside the dungeon.
I wrote a response, Vayne. I looked at it and realized I would be banned until GW8, at least.
And so, I have nothing more to add.
Look, you’re so used to contradicting me, you do it even when I’m saying something that’s so obviously correct that no one could refute it.
Poster 1: Anet isn’t watching this game, because people do X.
Poster 2: People did X is Guild Wars 1 too, so what you say doesn’t follow.
I’m guessing if it was anyone but me who said that you’d not have bothered replying. Nothing you said in your reply changed anything I said in my statement one whit.
It is too bad it happened and too bad that it could happen. There has to be better ways though to make 20 gold in 2 hours unless you really need to sell Arah.
it doesn’t matter how jealous you are of sellers making more gold than you ever will
And that overly arrogant attitude is exactly the reason why i dont feel even a bit sorry for one of you pathsellers making a bad deal.
There’s two reasons I can think of for griefing a path seller. Jealousy or malice. Can you name me another? Can you even argue that any of these reasons are acceptable in any way?
Regarding noting the names of other players, I suggest you do what I do and have BEEPA FRAPS running in the background all the time. At the first sign of trouble, hit the record video key and dumpout to AVI on your HDD or another key and get screen captures of their names or dialogue. The point is, with so many third-party software items out there, you no longer need to worry about writing down anything.
it doesn’t matter how jealous you are of sellers making more gold than you ever will
And that overly arrogant attitude is exactly the reason why i dont feel even a bit sorry for one of you pathsellers making a bad deal.
There’s two reasons I can think of for griefing a path seller. Jealousy or malice. Can you name me another? Can you even argue that any of these reasons are acceptable in any way?
Malice, yes. But there can be several reasons for that malice.
Anyway, i wasnt saying that this behavior is the right thing to do, i only said i dont feel sorry in the least for the victims of that behavior
Ranger – Drakkar Lake[DE]
Full melee Ranger since August 2012
You’re selling dungeon runs and complaining about fairness? Do you even know what that word means?
Fair
adjective
1. in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.
2. (of hair or complexion) light; blond.
adverb
1. without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage.
2. to a high degree.
noun
a beautiful woman.
verb
(of the weather) become fine.
This is fair in most definitions (If we’re thinking of the same one). He beat 5 man content, and is willing to let you in on the rewards for a fee.
1. in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.
It isn’t unfair that he’s putting in all the work to do it alone, so long as he alone gets the rewards. Giving the rewards to four other people who did NOT put in any work at all is completely unfair to all those who do.
Would you honestly say that a person deserves credit and the full reward for running a marathon if they paid someone else to run all but the last fifty feet for them? How would that be fair to everyone that ran the entire distance? It would not be and this situation is no different.
You’ve highlighted one of the definitions of fair but your answer doesn’t even correlate to that definition.
Selling paths is in accordance with the ToS because anet has already stated that, as long as someone doesn’t exploit the dungeon, he or she is allowed to sell it. In fact, anet has already been saying this for almost 10 years since Prophecies was released.
Is there a link to that? As far as I know, in GW they said nothing, pro or con, and did nothing for runners claiming “scammed” on either side of the transaction. Honestly curious.
NM. I found a year old unnamed Forum Moderator post. No Red name. Still curious if a Red Name statement is out there. The mod post is still buyer beware. That has always been their policy as I recall.
To be fair, I don’t understand the buyers. Buyers drive the business. Even something that is deemed illegal, gold selling, would die without buyers. /shrug.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
You’ve highlighted one of the definitions of fair but your answer doesn’t even correlate to that definition.
Selling paths is in accordance with the ToS because anet has already stated that, as long as someone doesn’t exploit the dungeon, he or she is allowed to sell it. In fact, anet has already been saying this for almost 10 years since Prophecies was released.
Where in your provided definitions of ‘fair’ is ‘permissible within the bounds of the terms of service’ found? Nowhere.
The terminology used is withing rules or standards, not ‘within a legally binding contract’. Fairness is not a legally defined term and therefore never to be found within a legal document, GW2’s ToS agreement and even the Rule of Conduct found within it do not mention fairness to any degree at any point.
However, by your own definition:
1. without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage.
There is no competition, test, or any system of reward anywhere in which having someone else do your work for you, and taking credit and reward for it, is not considered cheating.
Today, for the first time, I tried to solo AC P1 with my lv 80 warrior. It took me approximately 1 hour and 30 minutes to reach the last boss. Then I took down the HP of the boss to around 5% and opened LFG to sell spot. 2 people initially entered and purchased the spot and then after some time 2 more people entered simultaneously and they kicked me out of the dungeon for no reason. They didn’t even entered the dungeon themselves and yet they kicked me out. The first 2 guys told me that one of those last guy entered the dungeon and instantly kick me from the party which the other guy approved immediately. I had to refund the first 2 guys and just lost my whole time and effort. I am really disappointed with the attitude of these people and the unfair policy of the party system in GW2.
I wasn’t able to note down their names (as I was struggling with the boss) nor did the first 2 guys noticed the names. So, I couldn’t report them. But, I don’t understand how some random people can enter my party and kick me, the party leader, within a few seconds. The whole party system seems unfair to me. Just tell me guys what’s wrong with these people?
P.S. I am new to this game.
It should not be possible to kick the instance starter.
Simple as that.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
1. without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage.
There is no competition, test, or any system of reward anywhere in which having someone else do your work for you, and taking credit and reward for it, is not considered cheating.
It is the foundation of all but the most primitive economic systems. The OP produced more than his needs, and tried to sell the excess, a totally legit business practice according to almost all societies. He was in fact robbed by the kickers.
Gate of Madness [MAL] EB
Yarr! I be keeping me pirate runes, Matey. Yarr! You’re welcome. Yarr!
Also this post from Chris Cleary tell us a lot about anet’s policy regarding dungeon selling. All agree on the same: dungeon selling is allowed as long as no exploits are involved. Both the moderator and the GM say it explicitly, Chris doesn’t, but it can be implied from his words.
Btw, I was referring to this definition of fair: in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.
In case of controversy, it is anet’s job to interpret the rules to determine whether something is allowed or not in game, and there’s evidence that selling paths is in accordance with the rules.
Finally, adressing someone’s comment above, there are situations in real life where cheating has nothing to do with taking credit for other person’s work as long as that individual is compensated for it. Such is the case of ghostwriters and I’m sure there are many more cases like this but I’m not going to think about them now since I’ve already provided enough evidence for all my points instead of mere opinions.
Thanks for the links.
BTW, Ghostwriting Academic Essays is considered Fraud and you can lose a degree over it. Many national publications require a statement of actual authorship, and many, many authors consider publishing a Ghostwritten work as ones’ own work to be highly unethical.
Not a good example choice as it is not clear cut. It is conditionally acceptable in some context, and rejected in others.
No matter, Anet has communicated. Hard to find, but they have.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
look in a MULTI PLAYER game, the dungeon which is one of the most multiplayer aspect of the game MUST not be solo able what so ever.
that being said..its not your fault, its anet bad dungeon design which made it possible to solo. and it make some people angry and to solve this problem is to push anet to improve
the dungeons like cof p1 which can not be soloed due to door event, all dungeon must have similar stuff, problem solved.
kicking people who are soloing is rude and unfair since its not their fault.
I think I’m a pretty first rate armchair mindbrain tyvm.