Guild Wars 2

mercury ranique.2170:

Seera.5916:

Bomber.3872:

I leaded more then enough farm zergs on any map that I can tell you for sure that on every map a zerg farms the people that want “progress” are a minority of 2-5 usually.

I know that for sure because when I was leading at coiled watch we usually entered a new map and then got all people on this map through lfg tool. Problem is and was if there joined ~5 people before a farm starts or after the farm happend a while. But these people can join other megaserver instances.

I don’t understand why people have problems joining non organized megaserver maps. I’m on EU. For another instance I just join as a guest one full french, or german, or spain, or english server and it is 100% everytime another megaserver map. I know that works on AE too.

What the “blocking progress” people never understand is, that the farming zergs used time and effort to get a large amount of people with the same goal (farming) on that spot. Even while queensdale farm, usually you only joined these farm maps if you joined with lfg tool. Of course it happend that some single player joined them by accident, but again these can join another map easier then a 150 people zerg.

What I agree on 100% is that the attacking other people is totally wrong. From my experience with farming 1.000+ hours at these zergs the aggressive attacks mostly start through trolls or lonely single players that want everyone else to play for them.
Of course most of the times it takes only 3-4 sentences and then the farming zerg (majority with 100+ people) flame these individuals back.
I don’t like that and I have never flamed anyone who just asked. But at times when we farmed ~1h without problems and then joins 1 selfish player who disturbs everyone and annoys everyone, well at these cases I can’t complain about flaming them.

So yea the big problem are selfish people which want to force others to play their style, but in my opionion that happens mostly through the minority and I think that is the point where anet has to change something ingame. Not by nerfing one farmspot after another.

That’s the thing, you’re EU. NA doesn’t have any designated language servers. So those of us on NA servers can’t switch to a dedicated non-English server to maybe get onto a different shard. And if we can’t play during NA primetime, there may not be more than one shard available.

The problem isn’t the majority of farmers or the majority of non-farmers. The problem is the minority farmers and minority non-farmers that like to grief and troll the other group.

The farmers that yell at other players for killing the champ out of order or rallying enough non-farmers to complete an event. The non-farmers that specifically kill champs out of order JUST to disrupt the train or group together to complete the event just to make the farmers mad.

Coiled watch farm, most farmers I’d imagine if the non-farmers went: “Hey, I need the event to complete to progress my Living Story, could please we complete the event?” the farmers would have no problem letting it succeed.

And perception is reality. As soon as a farm gets perceived as toxic, then ANet pretty much has no choice but to change it to change the perception.

Actually, joining a different language server doesn’t change a lot. The game favours you getting on a shard with people from the same server you guest too (language has nothing to do with that). Another rule is that they favour you to get on the same shard as people with the same language setting rule as you (that rule is turned of on NA). So guesting on a different server with another designated language, but without actually changing the language of the client (and that also means rebooting and downloading the language files, which takes some time) actually makes the chance smaller to get on a different shard (compared to when you go to a same language shard). If Bomber has experienced differently, he/she was just lucky. So the situation is no different then on the NA servers. While guesting gives a chance on getting on a different shard, it is no garantee.

Bomber is EU though. Where there are designated servers.

If you were on an English home world and guested to a German server, there would be a higher chance of there being an open spot for you than on the shard you’re trying to guest away from. I’m fully aware of what things affect what shard you’re on (server you’re home world/guesting to is, language, online friends, guildmates, party mates) And I’m fully aware that it’s not a guarantee, but it may explain why Bomber has had more success guesting to a different shard than the OP, who may be on an NA server.

mercury ranique.2170:

I’m on two boats here.
The first is that the entire design of events is that it is just as much freedom to make it fail as it is freedom to make it succesfull. So nobody should be forced to finish it if they don’t want too.

The second however is that these situations very often lead to verbal abuse. The fact that this happens makes it an issue. Cause making an event succeed is more in line in what people expect to be “normal” behaviour, that is the wayt to fix it if it leads to verbal abuse.

This event is an excellent example where the difference in goals leads to verbal abuse and griefing. That means that in this case, the event should be altered to make succesfully finishing it more worthwhile.

But another example that is going (reasonable) well nowadays is Coiled Watch.
Not completing the event makes it spawn more champions, so people try to farm it. On normal days this leads to limited issues. Eventually it does happen that the event is finished, but the chain resets reasonable quick anyways, so people don’t make a fuss bout it. On days that it is frostgorge sound event completionist, the farmers take their loss and skip that day of farming. In my experience, there was controverse here at the start, but now it cooled down and settled down in a good status quo.

Another example where it goes well is The Silver Wastes. Cause the chain is the only big thing happening in the map, the two different approaches to farm this map are very well reflected in the LFG-tool and works reasonable well.

I always prefer that we solve this as a community then get Anet fix this for us as a big brother.

Pretty sure Coiled Watch fail farm is a thing of the past.. the event chain is normally completed on any map I frequent and I run it a lot now the event is farmed to completion.. it fits in well with the normal Champ rotations around the map and a full run yields anywhere from 8-15 champs depending on how well it get scaled and in the time it takes to run the whole chain through I think its a better outcome than farm a few champs on the first part and letting it fail to respawn on a timer.. nah I am reasonably sure the old failfarm toxic event has been consigned to the history books, but stranger things have happened I guess.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Dante.1763:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I thought that crappy defence requirement had been patched shortly after it made its way into game because of all the griefing of players wanting to run the chain.. so you don’t need to fail it to get it.

Nope! still need to fail that one! You actually have to kill the Risen Wizard to get it! I did the event, including the defenses, several times, and never got the trait(Read the wind i think, whichever one is “Kill the Risen High Wizard”) they fixed it for the temples..but didnt change it for that one. They did try to make the wizard spawn during defense..but it doesnt, unless enough players are there, and sometimes an old version of the event spawns instead!

I’ve done the defence twice today on different map copies and both times the wizard spawned, tbh it’s not often I don’t see it spawn.. it’s one of the best farm on CS so letting defence fail is always going to be contentious, which is why I was sure they had fixed the fail achievement to be awarded on both outcomes as long as the wizard is killed in the process

Killing the wizard during the defense does not count. You have to complete “Defeat the Risen High Wizard and secure the Promenade of the Gods” to unlock those traits. And that is only done during the taking of Arah, not defense.

Yes I know what it says and both assault and defence require you to secure the the promenade as such. I did not mean it was only granted for killing the High Wizard.

Ima gunna try finding the patch notes for this cos I am sure it was patched around a week or two after it was originally implemented… but hey I might be wrong.. its not unheard of.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Yes I know what it says and both assault and defence require you to secure the the promenade as such. I did not mean it was only granted for killing the High Wizard.

Ima gunna try finding the patch notes for this cos I am sure it was patched around a week or two after it was originally implemented… but hey I might be wrong.. its not unheard of.

This is probably what you’re thinking of. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-15-2014/first#post3919207

“Trait Unlocking:

Line 2—Trait XIII: This trait is now also awarded from successfully completing the defend event at the Temple of Grenth as well as the capture event.
Line 3—Trait XII: This trait is now also awarded from successfully completing the defend event at the Temple of Melandru as well as the capture event."

They made it so the Grenth and Mel traits could be obtained during defense. Arah didn’t change, though.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Yes I know what it says and both assault and defence require you to secure the the promenade as such. I did not mean it was only granted for killing the High Wizard.

Ima gunna try finding the patch notes for this cos I am sure it was patched around a week or two after it was originally implemented… but hey I might be wrong.. its not unheard of.

This is probably what you’re thinking of. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-15-2014/first#post3919207

“Trait Unlocking:

Line 2—Trait XIII: This trait is now also awarded from successfully completing the defend event at the Temple of Grenth as well as the capture event.
Line 3—Trait XII: This trait is now also awarded from successfully completing the defend event at the Temple of Melandru as well as the capture event."

They made it so the Grenth and Mel traits could be obtained during defense. Arah didn’t change, though.

Yeah I know that, that’s the temple trait patch they put in .. but something sticks in my head that the Arah defence was patched somewhere around the time Blix was becoming toxic as well… but I cant find anything so unless ANET can confirm anything different I will have to concede the point

Seems strange though that they alter the temple defence traits but leave out the Arah defence trait… consistency at its finest.

Well, technically, the Arah chain isn’t a temple chain. I have no idea if that’s why they didn’t code in a fix akin to the Grenth/Mel fix (probably isn’t why at all), but whatevs. Either way, it would be nice if people did for sure have that option to get it on defense.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Well, technically, the Arah chain isn’t a temple chain. I have no idea if that’s why they didn’t code in a fix akin to the Grenth/Mel fix (probably isn’t why at all), but whatevs. Either way, it would be nice if people did for sure have that option to get it on defense.

That we agree on.. saves so much toxicity. Though to be fair I haven’t seen Arah defence be an issue for like a year or more now as generally most players seem to like the nice long farm and then a quick hop over to Mel or Grenth with maybe a Penitent/Shelter farm enroute

Bomber.3872:

I leaded more then enough farm zergs on any map that I can tell you for sure that on every map a zerg farms the people that want “progress” are a minority of 2-5 usually.

How many players have given up trying to run the event to completion because of farmers constantly monopolizing the event?

And if you are willing to step aside and let them play through, you can go back to your farming without conflict. It’s monopolizing a piece of game content which is no different than a group monopolizing a pool table, foosball table or arcade machine in the student lounge. Do you want the RA, ANet, to step in and remove it because it’s the easiest way to stop the conflict?

And since ANet hung another benefit in completing certain events like trait unlocks, it’s even more of a problem. People quickly forget how tough it was to level up your first character, how little you have in currency and skill points. Not everyone has been playing a level 80 character for the last 500 hours and has skill points coming out of their ears.

It’d be nice if you knew anything about what you were talking about. There’d be a horrifying potential that someone could take you seriously.

Bomber.3872:

A great example for this is the temple farm (where you buy obsi shards at end of event chain) which was destroyed shortly after megaserver introduction. At this farm you killed only the undead which spawned 3 events earlier and you failed the event over and over. A minority of people complained about it “because it blocks progress and we can’t go to the temple event, but we need these obsi shards”. Solution was that anet destroyed the farm and now the map is empty. Now aren’t even enough people there for the temple events….

Ah, Temple of Balthazar. Always do that one when I’m in the area. Haven’t seen it fail. Likewise Dwayna and Lyssa. I’m not in CS much, but the Temples are always going there when I have to stumble through for some foraging.

Same with coiled watch, everyone who “needed for LS” could have just guested on another megaserver instance (yes if you select guest on character select and just take any other full server, then u usually get a new megaserver instance!). But no, minority had to scream loud, and now? I have done this LS part 2 weeks ago again, it is closely impossible todo now because there is noone there anymore and for doing it solo it takes to much time…. great solution

Ah yeah. The same coiled watch that’s on the current Frostgorge champ train. Also never fails. Which game did you say you were playing? It ain’t GW2.

As for ‘guesting over’ of old, it usually DIDN’T work, and when it did, you run into this same kitten attitude there too.

The problem has never been that there are farms or organized groups. The problem is usually that a single player or a minority gets on these maps and thinks that all other 150 player have to work for their goals now.

Funny how that applies to a few select farmers (like yourself) who thereby think they can bully anyone that comes along that doesn’t want to farm. They just have to go along with YOUR idea of how to play.

You’re not the majority, btw. Most people just don’t kittening care and will listen to the loudest voice.

Best solution still would be to remove the event medals, because then it is not “blocking any progress” and these minority has to get silent then.

Ah, instead of making it 3 tiered success system, make it pass/fail. When pass/fail is generally what determines getting these achievements. So… no effective change.

How much more room do you have up your kitten I’m curious what’s coming out next.

Another solution would be to allow guilds to “create” own map instances where only people can join that are “allowed” (with lfg tool). …. Sadly anet will never do this, because then other content like world bosses would be done by players on private maps only too

Which can already happen. But generally doesn’t. Because farming these world bosses is mostly unrewarding or requires more than you can stuff in most guilds.

Sariel V.7024:

Ah yeah. The same coiled watch that’s on the current Frostgorge champ train. Also never fails. Which game did you say you were playing? It ain’t GW2.

The Coiled Watch fail farm was eliminated some time back. The change that eliminated the issue, as usual, was increased time on event respawn if failed. So, of course, If one goes to Coiled Watch now no one is motivated to fail it. That does not mean that using it as a historical example is incorrect.

I don’t call his citing his failure as of literally two weeks ago a ‘historical example’, particularly when it’s been fixed for months. I call it a baldfaced lie.

Ascii Red.4029:

I have seen a small group of people who actually want to do this event chain stopped by people who want the event to fail

So when you say they were stopped, how exactly were they stopped? Did the commander put a gun to everyone’s head and told them to stop? Not sure why everyone couldn’t just continue on with the event… bizarre really…

Sariel V.7024:

I don’t call his citing his failure as of literally two weeks ago a ‘historical example’, particularly when it’s been fixed for months. I call it a baldfaced lie.

Maybe, or maybe he was trying to do the LS in off hours.