Guild Wars 2

This is not a topic discussing whether underwater combat is good/bad, nor is it a topic discussing whether the mechanics will be changed. As far as I am interested, ArenaNet developed it how they saw fit and the mechanics are here to stay.

With that out the way, I would like to question where do you think underwater combat is going. Do you think ArenaNet will continue to add in dashes of it to try and force it upon the naysayers, or do you think we are due an update with plenty of underwater antics? Maybe you think they have noticed all the negative feedback it gets, and seek to release underwater content sparingly?

I would like an excuse to spend more time underwater, so personally I am hoping to see an entire underwater zone emerging soon. Maybe it will have grottos in it so there is still some on-land fighting, maybe not. I would like to come to discover a new dungeon that forces us underwater for the majority of the content.

Naturally, the majority of the game should be on land, but currently there is very little to do underwater. Once you have “100%ed” your character, the only real need to venture underwater is for the Aquatic fractal (which you have but a 3/8 chance of encountering), or for portions of Honor of the Waves paths 2 & 3.

Your thoughts and expectations are highly valued. Obviously, any official responses would be welcome.

It isn’t a matter of negative feedback. It really is a case of underwater combat not being good enough. It’s great that it is in the game at all but it has a host of problems, starting with classes being gutted of their skills and ending with it being short on fun. It is fine for occasional fights but needs more than some minor tinkering to support major underwater content.

Stooperdale.3560:

starting with classes being gutted of their skills

These skills are usually ground targeted, which would be impossible to place when you have to consider a Y axis in addition to the X and Z.

In my opinion, i just don’t think it’s as fun and user friendly as its’ terrestrial counter-part. It restricts most of your skills and on top of all that, it’s a side show. Tyria isnt 100% submerged for a reason. I’d be okay if they never expounded upon it and enthralled if they completely scrapped any notion of underwater content expansion. There’s just not enough people who give a kitten about it to merit Anet taking action or dedicating anything in the way of resources on it.

Flissy.4093:

Stooperdale.3560:

starting with classes being gutted of their skills

These skills are usually ground targeted, which would be impossible to place when you have to consider a Y axis in addition to the X and Z.

All of these skills could easily be reworked into PBAoE or foe-targeted bubbles, just like the Mesmer’s Time Warp.

Honestly, the number of skills that don’t underwater is sad. Take a look at underwater Thieves. They lose all of their Traps, all of their Deceptions, most of their Tricks, and are basically left with just Venoms, Signets, and that bloody useless Basilisk Venom which doesn’t even work properly underwater. It’s pitiful.

Watch what happens when the WvW Borderland maps are redesigned.

If the large central lakes are taken out, and replaced with EB-style ponds, that’s the signal underwater combat is in maintenance mode.

Not all the blocked skills are due to “unrealism” (ground targeted stuff in 3 dimensions, summoning certain creatures that are terrestrial in nature, etc.)

What bugs me is that my elementalist can only use one of the 3 self-healing skills underwater. What’s the thinking behind that? What can it hurt to choose the healing skill I prefer?

I hate underwater combat, .. they didn’t think too much on my proff how my build traits are completely designed around stealth yet the only way I can go stealth is my heal? The only good thief underwater build is constant initiative regen crit for godmode number 5 on spear.

They simply didn’t test all builds underwater and for that the weapons need a redesign to compliment everything, not just one build. It’s obviously unfinished, only 2 weapons useable, and if I can jab a spear underwater why can’t I have it as a main hand and dagger offhand so I can actually stealth?

Hamfast.8719:

Not all the blocked skills are due to “unrealism” (ground targeted stuff in 3 dimensions, summoning certain creatures that are terrestrial in nature, etc.)

What bugs me is that my elementalist can only use one of the 3 self-healing skills underwater. What’s the thinking behind that? What can it hurt to choose the healing skill I prefer?

“usually”. I’m aware some aren’t. I’m still baffled why I can’t use Prayer to Dwayna (human heal)

There is an underwater dragon. That speaks for itself. – This means a deap sea zone, or multple, and another underwater dungeon to slay the dragon. – Underwater combat will be unavoidable in the world of Tyria in the state of War with the Dragons that it’s in.

Necrid.2705:

There is an underwater dragon. That speaks for itself. – This means a deap sea zone, or multple, and another underwater dungeon to slay the dragon. – Underwater combat will be unavoidable in the world of Tyria in the state of War with the Dragons that it’s in.

Oh yay… can’t wait for that… just kill me now.

I’m guessing they added underwater areas to add a new element to the game, and the current underwater system is just a teaser. I play a mesmer, so underwater combat is fun, but I understand how it can limit a lot of people. I think it’s safe to say it will be a while before we see the underwater dragon. That gives Anet a LOT of time to finish creating the underwater system.

Mathias.9657:

Necrid.2705:

There is an underwater dragon. That speaks for itself. – This means a deap sea zone, or multple, and another underwater dungeon to slay the dragon. – Underwater combat will be unavoidable in the world of Tyria in the state of War with the Dragons that it’s in.

Oh yay… can’t wait for that… just kill me now.

Oh, I’m sure underwater combat will be refined by then. All they really need to do to make the experience tolerable is:

1) Rework all skills to work underwater.
2) Fix obnoxious underwater terrain bugs (unexplainable hit failures with certain projectiles, enemies going through walls and staying there, etc.)
3) Rework underwater enemies to have less cc chaining and/or less mob density.

So everyone else decided this was actually a thread about how bad/good underwater combat is and how to fix it.

I want an underwater zone (when the underwater dragon is revealed) where the bottom is impossibly deep and incredibly black (such that if you try to swim down too far you would get a warning that the pressure is too much, similar to the current being too strong on map edges) where the meta zone dragon lieutenant will slowly come into view from below out of the unending deep.

No warning, a random spawn point and just all of a sudden it comes into view.

Pants will be filled. I don’t imagine many people will like it since it can be a serious phobia for some people.

CobaltSixty.1542:

So everyone else decided this was actually a thread about how bad/good underwater combat is and how to fix it.

I want an underwater zone (when the underwater dragon is revealed) where the bottom is impossibly deep and incredibly black (such that if you try to swim down too far you would get a warning that the pressure is too much, similar to the current being too strong on map edges) where the meta zone dragon lieutenant will slowly come into view from below out of the unending deep.

No warning, a random spawn point and just all of a sudden it comes into view.

Pants will be filled. I don’t imagine many people will like it since it can be a serious phobia for some people.

Yeah…… I’d rather not.

CobaltSixty.1542:

So everyone else decided this was actually a thread about how bad/good underwater combat is and how to fix it.

I want an underwater zone (when the underwater dragon is revealed) where the bottom is impossibly deep and incredibly black (such that if you try to swim down too far you would get a warning that the pressure is too much, similar to the current being too strong on map edges) where the meta zone dragon lieutenant will slowly come into view from below out of the unending deep.

No warning, a random spawn point and just all of a sudden it comes into view.

Pants will be filled. I don’t imagine many people will like it since it can be a serious phobia for some people.

and then it goes and sits in its predetermined fixed position where we get to attack its hands because this game can’t handle actual big monsters moving

I thought there was some talk at some point of thinking about underwater PvP … do not want to start rumors… and that was about a year ago.

I got my fill of underwater combat in DAoC’s ToA (Trials of Atlantis) expansion. Several dungeons, outdoor raids, etcetera. Although I enjoyed sailing my own personal boat and the guild boats for raids were helpful. I miss those. Underwater combat there was a might clumsy, even with the old /stick.

I don’t mind 360 degree z-axis combat (old Tribes player). Mid-air combat is a lot of fun and requires a lot of skill. Usually involving faster movement and game mechanics to help (jet packs, jump boots, et al). Moving in air, ability to see is different than 360 underwater.

Problem with underwater (for me): is (a) feels slow/constrained and (b) visuals.

I have to hand it to ANet though, if they do plan to add something, at least they have pre-set what would be ground-targets into orbs, so who knows? If they did, I’d hope they revisit each profession’s water abilities; would like to see some tweaks if underwater combat “got serious”.

I also don’t see it going away, as there was a lot of work put into it and some of zone completion involves underwater points. Not sure where they are going to take it, but my guess is they might balance out the skills a bit, as some classes just perform better underwater than others.

Yes, more underwater areas, a dragon event, and a dungeon please !!

Rangers will become useful again ..

I do not understand what everyone is complaining about, underwater combat is so absurdly easy, and I’m very mediocre at this game and have died many times on land, but never underwater. Like seriously, will there be underwater pvp and I’ll just own everyone by fluke. It’s SO EASY, have played multiple classes and they all had strong underwater skills. My theory is anyone that mistakenly uses a harpoon gun hates underwater combat.
Anyway, I like the variation of having aqua-centric heart quests, underwater events and boss fights, mixing things up is almost always a great idea.

Their underwater skill and weapon design is really bad and they need to put a lot of work into cleaning that up before putting any more emphasis on underwater combat. It’s basically being carried by being absurdly easy in PvE. Very few utilities work underwater, and you have no choice over your weapon sets – so if they don’t work with your build, or are just plain bad, there’s nothing you can do.

Given all the other balance and design issues in the game I cannot imagine this would be a high priority. This is the type of thing that might make it onto the drawing board in 2015; certainly nothing is imminent.

I’d love more underwater zones, we need more reason to get into water

If nothing, just to swim in the tears of the population crying for their stealth, 100b, … not working underwater

Underwater Engineers can use their grenade kit which is all ground target, they changed that into simple enemy target. Instead of using ground target underwater you simply throw the grenades at your target.

As far as minions go, I don’t understand why some can and some can’t. Necros for example can use all their minions except the flesh wurm and flesh golem underwater. I understand why the flesh wurm is out since it’s a wurm that crawls out from the ground… but why not the flesh golem? Also the necro’s signet of undeath which is ground target is usable underwater as a ground target (which I think is honestly dumb).

I mean they can convert pretty much all of our abilities and skills to suit underwater combat, so why don’t they? I naturally understand that it’s something that requires time, effort and testing – I just hope it happens and really hope underwater combat doesn’t get abandoned.

There are a lot of minor issues to be worked out with underwater combat. Once they get that done I would love to see more of it. I even hope that some day the Largos will be a playable race.
Many classes are limited by their choices of skills/elite skills underwater. The problem with the Z axis targeting being a bit off and mobs(still next to their spawn) go invulnerable and regenerate health, right next to your character. And another strange bug I found after they patched the surface invulnerable bug. Now if you are caught between land and water in the downed state, you will die.
(EDIT: just to explain that you die because you have no option to use your downed state skills (terrestrial or aquatic)but the enemy is still targeting and killing while you can do nothing)
It’s the small things that make underwater combat a bit tedious at this time. In the future it could be a great addition.

I would love an entire underwater zone, as long as it’s kept in PvE. Underwater combat in PvP just isn’t fun. Skills are more out of balance then normal skills, it’s very hard to see the distance to your foe, and dodging feels awkward.

If underwater combat had more weapons, was more balanced and all utility skills were actually working or had a underwater verison, it would honestly be far more interesting than land combat. Maybe they could also allow players to have both an underwater and on land traits selection.

If i was anet, i wouldn’t bother developing any major underwater content until they fix the variety. If they do then i have no issue with it, i’d actually gladly enjoy it.

Personally, I’m glad Anet did underwater combat the way they did…no breath timers being the biggest positive. They put enough content that made underwater more than just diving for kelp & mining nodes.

Having said that, I kinda hate it.

Not just because the skill choices are generally cut in half. I like the addition of underwater weapons, but (for instance) not being able to use my Flamethrower kit underwater when I built my character around it on land is quite a hogtie. But mostly, it’s the movement. The terrestrial combat is so movement heavy, but underwater everything feels sluggish. Not to mention the Z axis. I’m sure it’s not true for everyone, but the Z axis makes it hard to get lined up on an enemy sometimes. I think I’m in melee range, but it turns out I’m slightly below them.

These are my 2 issues to underwater combat. Sluggish, awkward movement and skill restrictions.

As I just posted in another thread : I don’t think Anet is going to add any underwater combat ‘till they address the many problems it has. Severe lack of skills/build options, lack of stomps, huge unbalances, resurfacing when downed has no advantage to it but it’s instead a bad idea… and I could go on…

I like underwater combat and exploration, I hope the unending ocean is dark scary place to swim in. i like surprises even if it means death by big fishy mouth.

Wolfheart.1938:

As I just posted in another thread : I don’t think Anet is going to add any underwater combat ‘till they address the many problems it has. Severe lack of skills/build options, lack of stomps, huge unbalances, resurfacing when downed has no advantage to it but it’s instead a bad idea … and I could go on…

Bolded the issue I’ve seen too. Before when you surfaced it was entirely possible for you to fully heal and then be invulnerable to mob damage. Anet patched this and now surfacing doesn’t help at all.
Adding to that if you are low on health and try to make it to shore; don’t. If you are downed between land and water, all your downed skills disappear as if you’re still swimming and you can’t move (like being downed on land). Guaranteed death.
I hope Anet revisits the surfacing heal because it still tells you to surface to save yourself when it doesn’t help any longer.

After addressing the underwater combat system, I have hopes they do add more underwater content and the Largos race in the future.

EDIT: now it’s bolded

Put all mechanics aside, even putting GW2 aside, and I think underwater is just not a place people really want to be in games.

I made a thief recently after not playing for awhile and don’t mind it though. I don’t know if it’s general improvements they made or just a gap in performance underwater between the classes, but I didn’t feel weak at all where I did before(Unless I was ‘cheating’ with engy kits). The guy who mentioned ‘where did the utilities go’ is spot on, but otherwise I felt going underwater was a nice change of pace instead of ‘Ugh, I have to go underwater?’

I would love to see a separate aquatic trait system, however, for me personally it would be important to improve perspective and depth – I often can’t tell where the mob is in relation to me. One more thought – there should be a major city that provides all services (Bank, TP, crafting etc) underwater.

I would like to see an entire wvw map just water, maybe a couple small islands.

Skills definitely need improvement underwater – for some classes underwater combat can be a horrible experience (ie, thief), yet for other classes it can be more fun than on land (ie mesmer)!

If they do that, so all classes have sufficient variety of skills underwater, then I am in support of more underwater zones.

CobaltSixty.1542:

No warning, a random spawn point and just all of a sudden it comes into view.

Pants will be filled. I don’t imagine many people will like it since it can be a serious phobia for some people.

This would be the most awesome thing ever. I love horrifying things like this.

Where is underwater combat going?

snicker

DOWN THE DRAIN!

< /Mad King Thorn>

Underwater combat is quite the mixed bag. On one hand it offers a change from the land-based combat that exists in the majority of the game and it can be fun to explore underwater areas, but on the other hand underwater mode can be difficult and clunky when it comes to combat (at least for me) and many skills are taken away. I know I read somewhere that Guild Wars 2’s development time was extended mostly due to them having to perfect underwater combat and exploration but still it not flawless. I don’t see them scrapping underwater combat entirely but there surely needs to be some improvements made to it to make it more enticing to players since most people I play with don’t really like it that much. I’m partial to it.

My #1 reason for enjoying underwater combat: the spear. Just about every profession I have played has excellent and very useful spear skills. The z-axis makes things a little dodgy from a melee standpoint, but many spear skills have built-in gap closures or skills that pull enemies to you: two features not commonly seen in two-handed terrestrial weapons.

I would love the idea of a completely aquatic explorable zone… I’ll just grab my spear and go!

Underwater combat is kitten easy and lots of fun. I’ve never understood what the fuss is about. You just have to get used to being situationally aware in 3-d. L2P.

That said, I think it’s a side-show, and it’s right that it should be. It’s in the game more for a change of pace than as an equal part of the game to the land stuff. But I hope they continue to develop it at that level.

Why are people even talking about “easy”, the difficulty is irrelevant. It’s just not fun to have half your skills and traits become useless (especially as you don’t have an auto trait switch while underwater)

And you have no real weapon choice. Every class gets every underwater option they have at once.

If necro pets and engi turrets work underwater, so should my elementals. My engineer’s elixir gun can be fired at walls and objects to get the ground targeted effect. This should be the case for all of them, (my well necro is disappoint.)

I like the underwater combat but the execution is like some kind of alpha.

Underwater combat is quite limited, because we lose half our skills for zero reason, while yes certain classes are more capable than others, underwater combat is very bias and buggy..

I still laugh when i see warriors planting banners (that stand straight up) in the water yet skills that make sense under water cannot work haha..