Guild Wars 2

Nick.6972:

And the fact that lower ranked teams usually lost to higher rated teams in mirror matches.

It’s funny how in lots of tournament matches (team) you will find mirror builds being used (or very close) and the ones who are just using the build they found on the net are getting stomped very easily to those who know their build better, exactly what was happening in GW1…. I don’t see how this “fact” of yours doesn’t apply to GW2 as well, maybe you didn’t run any tournaments or something

Nick.6972:

Never once there was just one the most optimal teambuild everyone player unlike in GW2.

Which is this amazing optimal “teambuild” in GW2?

yes OP. they took nothing i liked about GW1 and put in persistent world:(

gw2 is completely new game and you are right that it is closer to wow then it is to GW1. there is wvw:)

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

yes OP. they took nothing i liked about GW1 and put in persistent world:(

gw2 is completely new game and you are right that it is closer to wow then it is to GW1 there is wvw:)

So is it the mounts, the map travel, the grind for rep, or the raids that make it more like WoW? Have you even PLAYED WoW?

Vayne.8563:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

yes OP. they took nothing i liked about GW1 and put in persistent world:(

gw2 is completely new game and you are right that it is closer to wow then it is to GW1 there is wvw:)

So is it the mounts, the map travel, the grind for rep, or the raids that make it more like WoW? Have you even PLAYED WoW?

It’s something between them, at least it is not as similar to GW1 as A-Net promised us it would be. The map is quite the same and the class-names (not mechanics). The travel between points also, but more of I can’t remember.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Vayne.8563:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

yes OP. they took nothing i liked about GW1 and put in persistent world:(

gw2 is completely new game and you are right that it is closer to wow then it is to GW1 there is wvw:)

So is it the mounts, the map travel, the grind for rep, or the raids that make it more like WoW? Have you even PLAYED WoW?

It’s something between them, at least it is not as similar to GW1 as A-Net promised us it would be. The map is quite the same and the class-names (not mechanics). The travel between points also, but more of I can’t remember.

I have an earlier post in the thread that mentions more similarities to Guild Wars 1.

The point is, it’s really not Guild Wars 1, and would be impossible to be so once the decision was made to move the game from a CoRPG to a true MMO with a persistent world. That change made many of the other changes.

But there’s a vast gulf between Guild Wars 2 and games like WoW, Rift, Aion, Lotro, AoC…those games are completely different than Guild Wars 2.

For one thing, very few games have a TRUE separation between PvE and PvP. Meaning you can’t PvP anywhere in the open world. In all those other games you can. For another thing, none of those games have instant map travel, and most of them have many many many tiers of gear that you have to keep going for. All of them have raids. As far as I know all of them you have to level to get into PvP, instead of jumping into PvP at max level like you can in Guild Wars 2.

The people who say Guild Wars 2 is a WoW clone clearly have no real experience with WoW. The people that say it are Guild Wars 1 players. Most of the time, they see a slippery slope. Oh sure, we have ascended gear now, it’s going to be a full on gear grind.

Don’t believe it. Anet has made a concession to other game players, but they haven’t abandoned players like me yet.

Rooks Zaer.5846:

They’ve built a game around a business model instead of building a business model around a game.

It’s what it seems to me. And it’s sad, compared to what gw1 was.

Now about changes in mechancis. Im really happy they’ve made an open world. And i’m glad the pvp has now a manageable number of skills instead of a crapload of them with only a few that synergized well. But I really wish they had kept the itemization from GW1. As for the ‘lore’ it has always been generic and bland to me in both games and i don’t care about it. But I do think combat was improved even though you’re not to build a skill deck, it’s silk smooth and fun. Technically it’s a MUCH better game, but its core “philosphy” has been skewed towards classic mmos and that sucks immensely.

Jski.6180:

What? In GW1 you could solo events that was the idea behind the game to chose if you where to solo with npc or run with ppl that made it a non mmorpg also the lack of a true open world. GW2 is made so you NEED to have other ppl playing with you or you cant get any thing done and it has an open world to it so GW2 IS an mmorpg. If you truly wanted to play GW1 then play GW1 its still there but your still not going to make an mmorpg out of it. If you wanted to play an mmorpg then GW2 is the game for you. Stop trying to make GW2 into a game that it is not.

At the end of the day your NOT a game maker nor do you have any skills for the most part to even start making something as big as GW2 so you have no idea what you would do because you have no idea what you CAN do. This is true for a most of the ppl on these forums.

Actually, becoming a Game Designer was the main career choice before going with my interests in music to become a Game Composer.
- My brother and I have both worked with 3D software, and he is currently being educated as a Game developer and we often discuss games as to what is good and what’s not so good. What works, and what doesn’t, and why.

- My point, however, was not in GW1 but more that the GW2 community suddenly started complaining about dungeons being grouped content.
GW1 is per definition not an Open World MMO, no (it is an MMO, but many of us preferred to define it as a single player experience with a Massively Multiplayer option. Fact is, you need an internet connection to even play it).
When it comes to GW2 ANet should start to look at their manifesto and work towards that instead of listening to a forum, which for the most part have a phobia for other MMO’s and lets not make anything that has been seen before.

- I’ve made a thread called “Game Concept vs. Game Design” where I talk about that every concept has been seen before, but the way they are being designed are evolving every day.
- Many concepts never get the chance to make its way into GW2 (not that just anything should be implemented) because people have “seen it before” although it might not be “designed” the exact same way.

Improving GW2 does not mean that it should copy GW1.
- It should, however, evolve some of the core aspects of GW1 and bring them into the Open World concept of MMO’s and fit them into the GW2 game design. They had aspects in GW1 that were unique to the game and the GW franchise, and I find it foolish that we haven’t seen much of it in GW2 yet.
- GvG, Guild Halls, Guild Capes (cloth simulations are not so hard to make that they couldn’t be in the game already) just to name some Guild related content that players have been asking for since launch.

Harbard.5738:

Rooks Zaer.5846:

They’ve built a game around a business model instead of building a business model around a game.

It’s what it seems to me. And it’s sad, compared to what gw1 was.

Now about changes in mechancis. Im really happy they’ve made an open world. And i’m glad the pvp has now a manageable number of skills instead of a crapload of them with only a few that synergized well. But I really wish they had kept the itemization from GW1. As for the ‘lore’ it has always been generic and bland to me in both games and i don’t care about it. But I do think combat was improved even though you’re not to build a skill deck, it’s silk smooth and fun. Technically it’s a MUCH better game, but its core “philosphy” has been skewed towards classic mmos and that sucks immensely.

About the PvE stuff I have to agree, about PvP not in this millenium. How can you say GW1 had not enough skills and nearly no synergy behind them? Look at GW2 and tell me again where the synergy is? nearly 90% of all utilities are garbage and never used in competitive play. In GW1 your whole bar was a synergy and not only to yourself, no! to the kittening whole team. In GW2 classes are so independent that you have no synergy with other ppl rather than just yourself.

All in all, im assuming that most ppl are looking on GW1 with the reminisce goggle thats makes gold out of mess. GW1 was an amazing game, but i think thats being exaggerated greatly by looking back

Well the OP is right many great features from gw1 are missing especially skills/pvp/teamwork . Nearly every class plays solo but thats how its meant to be in this game so you cant complain really about that , No roles in this game , and its boring because of it

captaincrash.6528:

The closest thing Guild Wars 2 has to WoW, is it is by default W to move forward.

srsly?

• gear as core progression mechanic
• mainly auto-attack-based, auto-aimed combat
• skinner-box-oriented retention strategy (you would know them as dailies)
• GW2 hearts == WOW quests
• GW2 traits == WOW talents
  i could go on but that’s already most of the game…

mjharrison.3209:

srsly?

• gear as core progression mechanic
• mainly auto-attack-based, auto-aimed combat
• skinner-box-oriented retention strategy (you would know them as dailies)
• GW2 hearts == WOW quests
• GW2 traits == WOW talents
  i could go on but that’s already most of the game…

hmm? quite little gear progression in GW2.

Nope, quite a few encounters require manually targeted abilities

Quite different. The once in WoW can only be done in specific areas, while GW2s can be done by simply playing the game.

GW2 hearts = Any MMOs quest, not specifically WoW.

GW2 traits is rather far from the WoW talents, and once again WoW is not the first nor only game that had those.

mjharrison.3209:

srsly?

• gear as core progression mechanic
• mainly auto-attack-based, auto-aimed combat
• skinner-box-oriented retention strategy (you would know them as dailies)
• GW2 hearts == WOW quests
• GW2 traits == WOW talents
  i could go on but that’s already most of the game…

• certainly not core mechanic, really having in mind how easy it is to get full exotics it really isn’t that important.
• really? GL auto-attacking dungeons without dodging moving or using abilities. The only auto-attackable things right now are some meta events.
• nope, very easy to do, can be done anywhere, if you’re a casual you won’t see them as needed anyway
• How about WoW quests = GW1 quests? You know, the pick up a quest from an NPC, hand quest in later.
• How about WoW talents = GW1 talents? You needed to put in trait points in there as well…

Vayne.8563:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Vayne.8563:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

yes OP. they took nothing i liked about GW1 and put in persistent world:(

gw2 is completely new game and you are right that it is closer to wow then it is to GW1 there is wvw:)

So is it the mounts, the map travel, the grind for rep, or the raids that make it more like WoW? Have you even PLAYED WoW?

It’s something between them, at least it is not as similar to GW1 as A-Net promised us it would be. The map is quite the same and the class-names (not mechanics). The travel between points also, but more of I can’t remember.

I have an earlier post in the thread that mentions more similarities to Guild Wars 1.

The point is, it’s really not Guild Wars 1, and would be impossible to be so once the decision was made to move the game from a CoRPG to a true MMO with a persistent world. That change made many of the other changes.

“GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world”

Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly. But, it seems to me that your comment and this quote are mutually exclusive.

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Vayne.8563:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

yes OP. they took nothing i liked about GW1 and put in persistent world:(

gw2 is completely new game and you are right that it is closer to wow then it is to GW1 there is wvw:)

So is it the mounts, the map travel, the grind for rep, or the raids that make it more like WoW? Have you even PLAYED WoW?

It’s something between them, at least it is not as similar to GW1 as A-Net promised us it would be. The map is quite the same and the class-names (not mechanics). The travel between points also, but more of I can’t remember.

I have an earlier post in the thread that mentions more similarities to Guild Wars 1.

The point is, it’s really not Guild Wars 1, and would be impossible to be so once the decision was made to move the game from a CoRPG to a true MMO with a persistent world. That change made many of the other changes.

“GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world”

Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly. But, it seems to me that your comment and this quote are mutually exclusive.

Nope, not at all. I’ve explained this before, but I’m happy to explain it again.

The line “We’ve taken everything you love from Guild Wars 1 and put it into a persistent world.” is an impossible line. It’s 100% impossible. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense couldn’t take that statement as literal. Why?

Because different people like different things, and some of the things in Guild Wars 1 can’t be in Guild Wars 1 (for example instanced zones). Because it’s an MMO.

This is marketspeak, plain and simple. No one in their right mind should take that as literal because if they took EVERYTHING that EVERYONE loved from Guild Wars 1 and put it into Guild Wars 2…then Guild Wars 2 would BE Guild Wars 1.

Marketing is marketing. I’ve identified this as the only thing in the manifesto that’s questionable. Everything else they more or less did.

Vayne.8563:

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Vayne.8563:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

yes OP. they took nothing i liked about GW1 and put in persistent world:(

gw2 is completely new game and you are right that it is closer to wow then it is to GW1 there is wvw:)

So is it the mounts, the map travel, the grind for rep, or the raids that make it more like WoW? Have you even PLAYED WoW?

It’s something between them, at least it is not as similar to GW1 as A-Net promised us it would be. The map is quite the same and the class-names (not mechanics). The travel between points also, but more of I can’t remember.

I have an earlier post in the thread that mentions more similarities to Guild Wars 1.

The point is, it’s really not Guild Wars 1, and would be impossible to be so once the decision was made to move the game from a CoRPG to a true MMO with a persistent world. That change made many of the other changes.

“GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world”

Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly. But, it seems to me that your comment and this quote are mutually exclusive.

Nope, not at all. I’ve explained this before, but I’m happy to explain it again.

The line “We’ve taken everything you love from Guild Wars 1 and put it into a persistent world.” is an impossible line. It’s 100% impossible. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense couldn’t take that statement as literal. Why?

Because different people like different things, and some of the things in Guild Wars 1 can’t be in Guild Wars 1 (for example instanced zones). Because it’s an MMO.

This is marketspeak, plain and simple. No one in their right mind should take that as literal because if they took EVERYTHING that EVERYONE loved from Guild Wars 1 and put it into Guild Wars 2…then Guild Wars 2 would BE Guild Wars 1.

Marketing is marketing. I’ve identified this as the only thing in the manifesto that’s questionable. Everything else they more or less did.

I guess there is where I have the disconnect. I bought this game for 2 reasons. 1) because it had no monthly fees, and 2) because it would copy over what I loved about GW1

According to you, I may not have half an ounce of common sense. I did not expect them to upgrade the graphics of GW1, slap a “2” on the box and call it a day. However, I expected them to take at least some of the greater points from its predecessor and port them over to the new game. I would believe that a reasonable person would also make the same assumption based on the quotes from the manifesto.

If you have identified this quote in the manifesto as “questionable;” I suppose that means something.

For anyone who hasn’t seen it, here is where GW1 is in GW2:

http://i2.minus.com/iGN1Qa0MEiO7L.jpg

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Vayne.8563:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

yes OP. they took nothing i liked about GW1 and put in persistent world:(

gw2 is completely new game and you are right that it is closer to wow then it is to GW1 there is wvw:)

So is it the mounts, the map travel, the grind for rep, or the raids that make it more like WoW? Have you even PLAYED WoW?

It’s something between them, at least it is not as similar to GW1 as A-Net promised us it would be. The map is quite the same and the class-names (not mechanics). The travel between points also, but more of I can’t remember.

I have an earlier post in the thread that mentions more similarities to Guild Wars 1.

The point is, it’s really not Guild Wars 1, and would be impossible to be so once the decision was made to move the game from a CoRPG to a true MMO with a persistent world. That change made many of the other changes.

“GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world”

Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly. But, it seems to me that your comment and this quote are mutually exclusive.

Nope, not at all. I’ve explained this before, but I’m happy to explain it again.

The line “We’ve taken everything you love from Guild Wars 1 and put it into a persistent world.” is an impossible line. It’s 100% impossible. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense couldn’t take that statement as literal. Why?

Because different people like different things, and some of the things in Guild Wars 1 can’t be in Guild Wars 1 (for example instanced zones). Because it’s an MMO.

This is marketspeak, plain and simple. No one in their right mind should take that as literal because if they took EVERYTHING that EVERYONE loved from Guild Wars 1 and put it into Guild Wars 2…then Guild Wars 2 would BE Guild Wars 1.

Marketing is marketing. I’ve identified this as the only thing in the manifesto that’s questionable. Everything else they more or less did.

I guess there is where I have the disconnect. I bought this game for 2 reasons. 1) because it had no monthly fees, and 2) because it would copy over what I loved about GW1

According to you, I may not have half an ounce of common sense. I did not expect them to upgrade the graphics of GW1, slap a “2” on the box and call it a day. However, I expected them to take at least some of the greater points from its predecessor and port them over to the new game. I would believe that a reasonable person would also make the same assumption based on the quotes from the manifesto.

If you have identified this quote in the manifesto as “questionable;” I suppose that means something.

As I said in my earlier quote, many of the things I liked about Guild Wars 1 are here. It’s very different from most other MMOs, in fact, far more like Guild Wars 1 than any other MMO on the market.

By the same token, there are things we knew beforehand wouldn’t be in the game. Anet made it quite clear they weren’t going to have GvG. They made it quite clear there would be less skills. This is all stuff that was widely publicized before release.

It’s not the same game, and if it was, it would have failed. Guild Wars 1 was too much of a niche game to do what Anet wanted to do with Guild Wars 2.3

Vayne.8563:

It’s not the same game, and if it was, it would have failed.

I respect your opinion, even though I disagree.

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not the same game, and if it was, it would have failed.

I respect your opinion, even though I disagree.

I probably should clarify. It would have failed because they had a much higher overhead, a bigger staff, a bigger vision and Guild Wars 1 was too niche to support the new, more ambitious effort.

Not that it would have been a bad game, but it might not have sold nearly as many copies.

Edit: I played Guild Wars 1 for five years. Loved the game. But the MMO scene has changed a lot, and unfortunately, Guild Wars 2 couldn’t have lived on Guild Wars 1 vets alone. Not with a staff five times as big.

I tried Guild Wars, hated the game. I guess I should have sat on the forums and keep repeating how much I hate the game instead of what I did. What I did was find other games that I really did enjoy playing.

Perhaps ANET should have clarified more as well. Instead of grand promises of market speak, maybe they should have been more forward with exactly what we were to expect.

Instead of “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world,” perhaps they should have just told us something like… Well guys, we’re doing something completely different. You won’t have any monthly fees. The character levels won’t matter much. The lore is loosely based in the “GW” theme. But really, the rest of the game is totally different.

I would have then make a more informed decision beforehand about what I was investing in, when deciding whether to purchase their new product. At the very least I wouldn’t be looking back and thinking, “what happend?”

GW2 is a great game. But when I play, there is a voice in the back of my head that tells me “this game is not what I thought it would be.”

JSmooth.7654:

The lore is loosely based in the “GW” theme.

I wouldn’t say that it’s loosely based. Unless you have some plot holes to share that I missed? The lore seems to be pretty accurate to me.

If i play GW2, i miss the instanced areas – Many players gripped about GW1 being highly/all instanced based. It’s a much better game having a dynamic world where you can interact with everyone. One of the big issues I had with GW1 was that it felt like a single player game online.

i miss that i only needed 20 levels – The trait system in GW1 worked with only 20 levels. The trait system in GW2 works well with 80. It also gives players more time to improve their character while progressing in the story, unlike GW1 in which you were the max level after the tutorial.

I miss the teamwork – Heroes weren’t team players. Olias was like that guy in your party that you only want to take when the Daily Healer was available.

I miss the drop system, the way how you get good looking items – The amount of RNG in GW2 is horrible. It wasn’t much better in GW1. Although GW1 had much better skins, and much less childish items.

. I miss how PvP was. Balthazar points – Glory?

the huge deck of skills – Balancing issues

. & omg! The dual professions – Worked in GW1 until there were, well, more skills. Then it became unbalanced and everyone was running around with meta builds.

GvG – This I’d agree with. Although it’s suppose to be coming soon

GH !!! – Same as above

Alliances!!! – This I do miss The dual representing in GW2 is worthless since nearly all guilds have 100% rep requirements. Alliances bypassed that. Guilds don’t like merging, but with Alliances, you can merge without actually having to. I’d love to see Alliances back in GW2, and hopefully they come with the Cantha campaign (even though the Luxons and Kurzicks have been wiped out, but who knows, maybe there will be a revolution).

Vayne.8563:

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Vayne.8563:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

yes OP. they took nothing i liked about GW1 and put in persistent world:(

gw2 is completely new game and you are right that it is closer to wow then it is to GW1 there is wvw:)

So is it the mounts, the map travel, the grind for rep, or the raids that make it more like WoW? Have you even PLAYED WoW?

It’s something between them, at least it is not as similar to GW1 as A-Net promised us it would be. The map is quite the same and the class-names (not mechanics). The travel between points also, but more of I can’t remember.

I have an earlier post in the thread that mentions more similarities to Guild Wars 1.

The point is, it’s really not Guild Wars 1, and would be impossible to be so once the decision was made to move the game from a CoRPG to a true MMO with a persistent world. That change made many of the other changes.

“GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world”

Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly. But, it seems to me that your comment and this quote are mutually exclusive.

Nope, not at all. I’ve explained this before, but I’m happy to explain it again.

The line “We’ve taken everything you love from Guild Wars 1 and put it into a persistent world.” is an impossible line. It’s 100% impossible. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense couldn’t take that statement as literal. Why?

Because different people like different things, and some of the things in Guild Wars 1 can’t be in Guild Wars 1 (for example instanced zones). Because it’s an MMO.

This is marketspeak, plain and simple. No one in their right mind should take that as literal because if they took EVERYTHING that EVERYONE loved from Guild Wars 1 and put it into Guild Wars 2…then Guild Wars 2 would BE Guild Wars 1.

Marketing is marketing. I’ve identified this as the only thing in the manifesto that’s questionable. Everything else they more or less did.

Two things,

I hardly think people read that line and thought, “Sweet…GW2 will have everything that personally liked about GW1 in it.” You’re over-simplifying the issue. Surely, there are some major things about GW1 that the majority of us can agree on that we liked. Skill/build customization and variety, while over-the-top for some, was widely viewed as a great feature. GvG and AB were, at least early on, highly praised PvP assets. The storyline, while some may disagree for reasons I personally can’t fathom, is still widely viewed to be hand over fist better than GW2. Etc Etc Etc

Taking the “Your literal interpretation is folly!” stance is a little insulting to players, we all have a general idea of what made Guild Wars a great game. We know it is a vague marketing line, but we also had a certain amount of trust in ANet that they also knew what we liked so much about the first game. That’s what we’re talking about, not absolutist diatribe.

And no, that’s not the only thing in the manifesto they can be called out on. The whole thing is “gamespeak” for selling us what we thought would be a legitimate evolution of the Guild Wars game. It wasn’t an evolution, it was a dissolution and then a reanimation into a frankenstein mmo that has no soul anymore. It’s a theme-park disneyland game now.

Also, while having an “instanced zone” game like GW1 means there can’t be open-world zones, the reverse is not true at all. GW2 is a open-world zoned game with small instanced areas already in the game, it’s not hard to do. One simple thing they could do is bring back vanguishing zones with no mob respawn. Max party of 5, mobs scale to your level( or 5 levels higher for more challenge), and offer good rewards for it. There’s little in the way of stopping them from doing that at all right now aside from server load problems…I’m sure they have some processing power left over from last Fall when there were a bazillion players in the game.

JSmooth.7654:

Perhaps ANET should have clarified more as well. Instead of grand promises of market speak, maybe they should have been more forward with exactly what we were to expect.

Instead of “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world,” perhaps they should have just told us something like… Well guys, we’re doing something completely different. You won’t have any monthly fees. The character levels won’t matter much. The lore is loosely based in the “GW” theme. But really, the rest of the game is totally different.

I would have then make a more informed decision beforehand about what I was investing in, when deciding whether to purchase their new product. At the very least I wouldn’t be looking back and thinking, “what happend?”

GW2 is a great game. But when I play, there is a voice in the back of my head that tells me “this game is not what I thought it would be.”

So everything else that they did after that you completely ignored? Because they did go into GREAT detail about a LOT of things.

Vayne.8563:

JSmooth.7654:

Perhaps ANET should have clarified more as well. Instead of grand promises of market speak, maybe they should have been more forward with exactly what we were to expect.

Instead of “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world,” perhaps they should have just told us something like… Well guys, we’re doing something completely different. You won’t have any monthly fees. The character levels won’t matter much. The lore is loosely based in the “GW” theme. But really, the rest of the game is totally different.

I would have then make a more informed decision beforehand about what I was investing in, when deciding whether to purchase their new product. At the very least I wouldn’t be looking back and thinking, “what happend?”

GW2 is a great game. But when I play, there is a voice in the back of my head that tells me “this game is not what I thought it would be.”

So everything else that they did after that you completely ignored? Because they did go into GREAT detail about a LOT of things.

You’re right. I must have completely ignored everything anet ever said about this game outside the manifesto…

If they did such a great job in their explinations, please tell me why so many people have gotten upset over this…

Mirta.5029:

JSmooth.7654:

The lore is loosely based in the “GW” theme.

I wouldn’t say that it’s loosely based. Unless you have some plot holes to share that I missed? The lore seems to be pretty accurate to me.

Ok, my bad. I think of it as loosely based in that is it however many years in the future and to me is not really a direct follow up of the stories from the original game. I think we’re splitting hairs, but what ever.

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

JSmooth.7654:

Perhaps ANET should have clarified more as well. Instead of grand promises of market speak, maybe they should have been more forward with exactly what we were to expect.

Instead of “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world,” perhaps they should have just told us something like… Well guys, we’re doing something completely different. You won’t have any monthly fees. The character levels won’t matter much. The lore is loosely based in the “GW” theme. But really, the rest of the game is totally different.

I would have then make a more informed decision beforehand about what I was investing in, when deciding whether to purchase their new product. At the very least I wouldn’t be looking back and thinking, “what happend?”

GW2 is a great game. But when I play, there is a voice in the back of my head that tells me “this game is not what I thought it would be.”

So everything else that they did after that you completely ignored? Because they did go into GREAT detail about a LOT of things.

You’re right. I must have completely ignored everything anet ever said about this game outside the manifesto…

If they did such a great job in their explinations, please tell me why so many people have gotten upset over this…

Because Anet couldn’t pull of the purely cosmetic game that everyone hoped for…probably including Anet.

I’m not saying people have no reason to be upset. I’ve NEVER said that. I’m saying several other things though.

I’m saying the manifesto is largely misquoted and people didn’t understand it. Particularly I’m referring to the part of the manifesto where Colin is talking about dynamic events and Ree is talking about personal story. This was clarified right after the manifesto emerged to cut down on the confusion.

Anet went to many many shows since the manifesto was made. Remember that came out two years before the beta even began.

In those shows they not only showed how dynamic events were made, but they gave examples of how dynamic events worked. They also had AMAs on redit, which you can still look up.

Eric Flannum said straight out that there would be things to grind for in the game for people who enjoy that play style. What there wouldn’t be was required grind.

The real issue, the one that upset most people, was the introduction of ascended gear. This was different than what Anet said before launch and yes, it did upset many people.

But it’s no where near the bug bear most people make it out to be. It’s not reasonable to expect a business to be losing business and not do something about it. So they tried the cosmetic approach and the largest percentage of players weren’t buying it. How do I know? I don’t. But I do know this.

If you were a company and EVERYONE said they didn’t want something, including your alpha testers and you did it anyway, you’d figure they have SOME data that showed they had to make a drastic change or else. There was no other logic for them to do it.

It’s not like ascended gear can be sold/bought on the trading post, so you can’t blame greed.

People are thinking, Anet didn’t have to do this. They could have done something else. But what they needed was something they could do fast.

So here’s the question. Who invested the money in the game? Who put the labor in the game? Why would they have changed the game so drastically if they didn’t feel they had to.

They didn’t add full on gear progression to the game. They made a compromise. And some people are very upset that Anet compromised. But a compromise isn’t a back flip. It’s something you do because you have to.

If you don’t like the game, don’t play the game, but don’t expect an MMO to not change. Every single MMO goes through this…major changes that upset a percentage of the player base.

It just so happens, Guild Wars 1 players are very very attached to what they had…and I don’t blame them. But it doesn’t mean Anet was lying when they said in a couple of interviews (but not the manifesto) that there wouldn’t be vertical progression.

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

JSmooth.7654:

Perhaps ANET should have clarified more as well. Instead of grand promises of market speak, maybe they should have been more forward with exactly what we were to expect.

Instead of “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world,” perhaps they should have just told us something like… Well guys, we’re doing something completely different. You won’t have any monthly fees. The character levels won’t matter much. The lore is loosely based in the “GW” theme. But really, the rest of the game is totally different.

I would have then make a more informed decision beforehand about what I was investing in, when deciding whether to purchase their new product. At the very least I wouldn’t be looking back and thinking, “what happend?”

GW2 is a great game. But when I play, there is a voice in the back of my head that tells me “this game is not what I thought it would be.”

So everything else that they did after that you completely ignored? Because they did go into GREAT detail about a LOT of things.

You’re right. I must have completely ignored everything anet ever said about this game outside the manifesto…

If they did such a great job in their explinations, please tell me why so many people have gotten upset over this…

These days it is best to hire a crack team of private investigators to track down every single word spoken or written by a game’s developers before you buy the game – but you can’t stop there! If you don’t consult with professional psychics qualified to peer into the developers’ very thoughts, you have not done the proper amount of research before your purchase, and therefore have only yourself to blame if the product fails to meet your expectations.

JSmooth.7654:

Ok, my bad. I think of it as loosely based in that is it however many years in the future and to me is not really a direct follow up of the stories from the original game. I think we’re splitting hairs, but what ever.

yet it does feel like a direct follow up if you’ve played Eye of The north.

Tachenon.5270:

JSmooth.7654:

Vayne.8563:

JSmooth.7654:

Perhaps ANET should have clarified more as well. Instead of grand promises of market speak, maybe they should have been more forward with exactly what we were to expect.

Instead of “GW2 takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it into a fully persistent world,” perhaps they should have just told us something like… Well guys, we’re doing something completely different. You won’t have any monthly fees. The character levels won’t matter much. The lore is loosely based in the “GW” theme. But really, the rest of the game is totally different.

I would have then make a more informed decision beforehand about what I was investing in, when deciding whether to purchase their new product. At the very least I wouldn’t be looking back and thinking, “what happend?”

GW2 is a great game. But when I play, there is a voice in the back of my head that tells me “this game is not what I thought it would be.”

So everything else that they did after that you completely ignored? Because they did go into GREAT detail about a LOT of things.

You’re right. I must have completely ignored everything anet ever said about this game outside the manifesto…

If they did such a great job in their explinations, please tell me why so many people have gotten upset over this…

These days it is best to hire a crack team of private investigators to track down every single word spoken or written by a game’s developers before you buy the game – but you can’t stop there! If you don’t consult with professional psychics qualified to peer into the developers’ very thoughts, you have not done the proper amount of research before your purchase, and therefore have only yourself to blame if the product fails to meet your expectations.

LMAO!

So you mean a five minute manifesto written 2 years before a game is ALL the research you need to do? The hundreds of hours of stuff after you should just ignore.

I’m not talking about hidden information. Anyone who didn’t know dynamic events ping ponged back and forth before the game launched simply wasn’t playing attention. Anyone who didn’t understand the personal story would focus people into the same place probably wasn’t paying attention either.

Not to say there were no surprises, but a lot of the stuff was well known and discussed to death before hand.

Admittedly if you’re only watching a manifesto written two years before a game comes out, and you do no other research, you’re very likely to get burned on something.

For example, when the manifesto was made the game still had energy bars, energy potions and dye seeds that you grew, which took 24 hours before you could collect them, unless you bought plant food from the cash shop.

But no one seemed to complain that THOSE things changed.

mjharrison.3209:

srsly?

• gear as core progression mechanic
• mainly auto-attack-based, auto-aimed combat
• skinner-box-oriented retention strategy (you would know them as dailies)
• GW2 hearts == WOW quests
• GW2 traits == WOW talents
  i could go on but that’s already most of the game…

Please do. By all means. Go on.
– no subscription fee vs subscription fee
– self-sufficiency system vs tank/healer/dps party system
– active dodging in combat vs standing still while rotating attacking
– players upped to level cap for PvP vs not
– everyone gets their own loot vs everyone rolls/competes for loot
– everyone can freely tag mobs vs first one to hit mob gets claim
– no raids vs raids
– no mounts vs mounts
– regularly updated content vs waiting months for content patches

I could go on, but at this point I’m just going to write your ignorant statement off as trolling, because anyone who knows anything about Guild Wars 2 and World of Warcraft knows they’re about as different as two games can be while still being in the same genre.

Vayne

Yeah they did.

Energy bars is still a hot topic even now.

And the dye fiasco burnt itself out last year when they changed them from account-bound to soul-bound…I guess we all got tired of that fight.

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Yeah they did.

Energy bars is still a hot topic even now.

And the dye fiasco burnt itself out last year when they changed them from account-bound to soul-bound…I guess we all got tired of that fight.

1. Energy bars isn’t a “hot topic”. There’s been a thread or two about it since launch. RNG is a hot topic. Energy bars are not.

2. The dye “fiasco” is not what I’m talking about. You’re simply talking about account bound vs. character bound. But the rest of you you’ve completely ignored. Do you know how annoying it would be to have dyes the way they were originally laid out. Imagine it.

You find a dye seed. You have to take it back to your home instance. You give it to an NPC. A day later you get your dye. But you can only grow one dye at a time. if you have 3 seeds, it takes 3 days…unless you buy plant food in the cash shop.

You really don’t think the fans would have been up in arms about that if Anet hadn’t changed it?

Anet made many changes. Some of them were well received, some of them were not well received.

We all forget the well received changes, because it’s much easier to complain about the changes we don’t like.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not talking about hidden information. Anyone who didn’t know dynamic events ping ponged back and forth before the game launched simply wasn’t playing attention. Anyone who didn’t understand the personal story would focus people into the same place probably wasn’t paying attention either.

With today’s generation of gamers I imagine “written information” and “hidden information” are probably synonymous with most people. ArenaNet posted a series of detailed, readily available blogs that thoroughly described what the game was going to be. Outside the addition of Ascended gear and the overabundance of rng chests, anyone who is upset because Guild Wars 2 isn’t what they expected simply didn’t do their homework. But I’m sure that, as with most everything else that goes wrong, is someone else’s fault. Why take blame for not researching a game when you can just point the finger at someone else?

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not talking about hidden information. Anyone who didn’t know dynamic events ping ponged back and forth before the game launched simply wasn’t playing attention. Anyone who didn’t understand the personal story would focus people into the same place probably wasn’t paying attention either.

With today’s generation of gamers I imagine “written information” and “hidden information” are probably synonymous with most people. ArenaNet posted a series of detailed, readily available blogs that thoroughly described what the game was going to be. Outside the addition of Ascended gear and the overabundance of rng chests, anyone who is upset because Guild Wars 2 isn’t what they expected simply didn’t do their homework. But I’m sure that, as with most everything else that goes wrong, is someone else’s fault. Why take blame for not researching a game when you can just point the finger at someone else?

They also had video panels from Gamescon and Pax that people could have watched that explained everything too. And then a lot of bloggers did videos explaining what those things explained. And there were podcasts talking about all that stuff.

It wasn’t just printed information.

I am not sure why a large off-topic discussion is warranted here…

There aren’t enough things that people enjoyed in GW1 placed in GW2 (properly or at all).
ANet claimed the opposite in their manifesto than what has been implemented.
GW2 is not WoW. But it is nothing like the predecessor (which it should be). The latter of the two statements is what matters. I don’t care what game GW2 is similar to, the point is it isn’t relatively similar to the game it should be similar to.

ANet won’t fix the above, nor will they admit that they let the fans down or admit that they made a huge mistake.

TL:DR – Waiting for the next GW1 similar MMO, MMORPG, and CORPG to fill the void in the market.

Motoko.2875:

I am not sure why a large off-topic discussion is warranted here…

There aren’t enough things that people enjoyed in GW1 placed in GW2 (properly or at all).
ANet claimed the opposite in their manifesto than what has been implemented.
GW2 is not WoW. But it is nothing like the predecessor (which it should be). The latter of the two statements is what matters. I don’t care what game GW2 is similar to, the point is it isn’t relatively similar to the game it should be similar to.

ANet won’t fix the above, nor will they admit that they let the fans down or admit that they made a huge mistake.

TL:DR – Waiting for the next GW1 similar MMO, MMORPG, and CORPG to fill the void in the market.

According to who? You? I, for one, wouldn’t play Guild Wars 2 if it were like its predecessor. What you call a mistake, I call a sound decision. And guess what? My opinion on the subject carries as much authority as yours.

darkace.8925:

According to who? You? I, for one, wouldn’t play Guild Wars 2 if it were like its predecessor. What you call a mistake, I call a sound decision. And guess what? My opinion on the subject carries as much authority as yours.

Congratulations, you are part of the minority who was not disappointed in the false sequel.

The fact you dislike GW1 and enjoy GW2 is a core problem in the creation of this game.

What I call a mistake, you call a mistake that accidently benefited you.

Guess what? You’re still in the minority.

Motoko.2875:

darkace.8925:

According to who? You? I, for one, wouldn’t play Guild Wars 2 if it were like its predecessor. What you call a mistake, I call a sound decision. And guess what? My opinion on the subject carries as much authority as yours.

Congratulations, you are part of the minority who was not disappointed in the false sequel.

Source? Where do you get your numbers to come to the conclusion of what the majority and the minority thinks.

maddoctor.2738:

Motoko.2875:

darkace.8925:

According to who? You? I, for one, wouldn’t play Guild Wars 2 if it were like its predecessor. What you call a mistake, I call a sound decision. And guess what? My opinion on the subject carries as much authority as yours.

Congratulations, you are part of the minority who was not disappointed in the false sequel.

Source? Where do you get your numbers to come to the conclusion of what the majority and the minority thinks.

You should be more aware of your surroundings.

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Yeah they did.

Energy bars is still a hot topic even now.

And the dye fiasco burnt itself out last year when they changed them from account-bound to soul-bound…I guess we all got tired of that fight.

1. Energy bars isn’t a “hot topic”. There’s been a thread or two about it since launch. RNG is a hot topic. Energy bars are not.

2. The dye “fiasco” is not what I’m talking about. You’re simply talking about account bound vs. character bound. But the rest of you you’ve completely ignored. Do you know how annoying it would be to have dyes the way they were originally laid out. Imagine it.

You find a dye seed. You have to take it back to your home instance. You give it to an NPC. A day later you get your dye. But you can only grow one dye at a time. if you have 3 seeds, it takes 3 days…unless you buy plant food in the cash shop.

You really don’t think the fans would have been up in arms about that if Anet hadn’t changed it?

Anet made many changes. Some of them were well received, some of them were not well received.

We all forget the well received changes, because it’s much easier to complain about the changes we don’t like.

No, the energy bar is a hot topic, especially in PvP circles. You don’t see it stated that way much because it’s tied into a lot of other threads like thief initiative and signet cooldowns.

The dye seed thing…well if you had to do it that way with it being account bound, I would prefer it. I think that was their original intention with it, to make the dyes themselves take time to acquire as well as having some minor RP value associated with them. At any rate, it would still be faster to do it that way if you had even 3 or 4 toons.

I didn’t forget the changes they’ve made to improve the game, on the contrary, they’ve done some good thing, if slowly. The issue is the foundational choices they made when they produced the game, not the programming tweaks made to gameplay.

(deleted post)

Some things arn’t worth saying.

Motoko.2875:

maddoctor.2738:

Motoko.2875:

darkace.8925:

According to who? You? I, for one, wouldn’t play Guild Wars 2 if it were like its predecessor. What you call a mistake, I call a sound decision. And guess what? My opinion on the subject carries as much authority as yours.

Congratulations, you are part of the minority who was not disappointed in the false sequel.

Source? Where do you get your numbers to come to the conclusion of what the majority and the minority thinks.

You should be more aware of your surroundings.

Why because a few people on the forum agree with you? Considering less than 5% of players actually ever visit the official forums it is hard to be aware of your surroundings.

BTW surrounding yourself with what amounts to yes man, is not the same as being aware of your surroundings.

Motoko.2875:

You should be more aware of your surroundings.

you mean the minority of players that actually post on forums? If you’re going to talk about majority/minority bring sources or don’t bring it up at all.

I don’t get how traits are like WoW talents at all, there’s more choice to them and it fits more of a single player RPG attribute feel than WoW’s talent system, unless WoW’s talent system changed in MoP? I don’t know, never played it.

Hearts don’t feel like quests either.. WoW quests have been done before in single player RPGs anyways, as well as EQ, which most of us know was the inspiration for WoW. GW1 quests were more similar to WoW and those two games were released around the same time, so it’s difficult to even call the first game a copy of WoW.

To hard-core GW1 players(I’m not one of them), this game was a big let-down. You have to be blind not to see that. Nearly everyone I’ve talked to that was a GW1 vet has done one of 3 things: 1) left the game entirely, 2) only enjoy certain aspects of the game like W3 or Fractals, and 3) begrudgingly accepted the game because it’s visually stunning, free, and they still have friends here.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong here, that ANet made a key decision many years ago to try and cater to an older, more casual crowd at the expense of really challenging gameplay. Whether or not that is good or bad is largely personal opinion, but it’s a silly claim by ANet to state this game is a legitimate heir to Guild Wars.

Obsidian.1328:

To hard-core GW1 players(I’m not one of them), this game was a big let-down. You have to be blind not to see that. Nearly everyone I’ve talked to that was a GW1 vet has done one of 3 things: 1) left the game entirely, 2) only enjoy certain aspects of the game like W3 or Fractals, and 3) begrudgingly accepted the game because it’s visually stunning, free, and they still have friends here.

It seems to me, and I could be wrong here, that ANet made a key decision many years ago to try and cater to an older, more casual crowd at the expense of really challenging gameplay. Whether or not that is good or bad is largely personal opinion, but it’s a silly claim by ANet to state this game is a legitimate heir to Guild Wars.

I’m a GW vet and the biggest thing I miss from it was the build diversity that we had. My favorite build to run in RA was a R/P BM build with a Spear and shield. It always surprised people when my pet would tear their face off because the general thinking was “ignore the pet and kill the master”.