Guild Wars 2

Everybody wants everything handed to them. There is no “challenge” in games anymore. It’s all about putting forth no effort and receiving the best rewards. The large playerbase are the “casuals” where companies get most of their money. If developers make the game challenging and fun the majority of the playerbase will not play and they will lose money.

But without this “challenging” aspect we have nothing but complaints about how games are too easy. It’s a vicious cycle and there is no middleground.

TL;DR: kitten yourself.

Nick.6972:

Mirta.5029:

Nick.6972:

Back in days I remember playing 2d platformers for 2-3 hours straight just to get pass one level.
Now? Now what do we have?
Games that literally reward you for doing nothing, where people are lazy and want everything to be handled them for free with no work.

may I ask what those platformers where? Old games without saving can be completed in 2 hours in total and were 6 hours long max.

Can’t name you which ones they were, it was like 14+ years ago on SEGA.
I can give you other example though. Mirror’s Edge Time Challanges, I’ve played one single level for 3 hours just to get time that was required.

I played Mad Clock Tower 4 hours before i could complete it. What’s your point?

Vayne.8563:

I think it takes skill to get the Dungeon Master title. Maybe not as much skill as you’d like. In Guild Wars 1, I can’t think of many items you could get that required skill. Maybe the skins from the Historic mission pack when it was first released.

There lies the difference between gw1 and gw2: one is about acquiring items, the other was about acquiring skills.

Mirta.5029:

RedCobra.7693:

Hmm yeah not the skill i was thinking of but i see where youre coming from, you could be carried for that one, i just dont see why anet hasnt decided to satisfy both audiences by making skins that take skill to get to give specific prestige to gamers with skill,

Dont shoot me down here but i had played runescape for a while and i remember getting my fire cape which took immense skill and the prestige that came with it was amazing.

I remember playing runescape. It didn’t take skill. It took time. GW2 requires far greater skill than runescape ever did.

i understand your opinion is your own but im gonna have to say that tz-tok jad took immense skill on my part and it took even more skill for me to defeat the queen black dragon :C your only reward was good loot and maybe an item that showed you defeated it, why doesnt gw2 have anything like this, dont make it so you HAVE to do it but the people who want to can.

Ryth.6518:

RedCobra.7693:

Whats happening with games these days?
It seems more and more game companies, especially mmo’s appear to be making thier games (shall we say) “noob” friendly, with GW2 leading the charge, dont get me wrong i love this game, but all i seem to hear is people complaining that if somehting is too hard then it isnt fair.

Now im going to remind you older gamers about a forgotten gem. Ghouls ‘n’ Ghosts.
This was probably the hardest game of my childhood and if you noticed when playing if you found a part too hard then you would not be able to play the game at all, this is extreme yet fun at the same time, the key word their being fun, i understand that games need to be fun but GW2 has no CHALLENGE.

I had previously made a post about the legendary weapons needing a skill aspect to acquiring one, however this idea was shot down with comments such as, thats not fair to people who arent good at the game, well in all honesty as cruel as it sounds i dont believe they deserve one as the weapon is supposed to be “legendary”.

Can anyone point out any equipment or weapons that take real skill to acquire, if not i think my point stands.

I’m going to respond to this using Vanilla WoW as a reference point.

Games since around WotLK have gotten quicker and easier and it’s not a good thing.

The JOURNEY is a BIG part of the longevity of a game.
The CHALLENGE is a BIG part of the longevity of a game.

Leveling in a game should be a long long journey. Now again..a journey. NOT A GRIND. A journey.

In fact, it leveling should be where you spend 50-75% of the original game in play time. Leveling allows you to not only learn your characters abilities, but also the ins and outs of the class and your limits, both character and player.

Vanilla WoW had it very correct. Leveling took a looooong time. In fact, even if you did most of the zones, you usually ended up around level 57 and still had to run dungeons to hit 60. Most average players hit 60 around 6 months…some longer..much longer. Some shorter. You can’t included HC players because they are going to level as fast as possible. Ignore this group.

Encounters were HARD. Very hard. If you ran into a pack of mobs in Duskwood, you better be able to CC or control them and have a few people. Things took a while to do. Dying lost you experience..which taught you to be careful. Dungeons were hard. You couldn’t blast through them. They were big. There were multiple wings. And you needed skill and CC to complete them.

Gear was hard to come by. I remember when a Thrash Blade was acquired around level 45 and most of us used that till 60..even longer. Gold was hard to come by. If you saved up for an epic mount (1000 gold)…kitten you were admired by people.

Now remember one thing that WoW did wrong..and that was limiting the content of the game to 40+ raiders. That was logistics and accessibility.

Accessibility does not mean Easy. That’s one thing people love about GW2 is that you CAN see all the content with 5 people.

But right now, almost all games, especially MMOS are so easy and not challenging that the ‘feeling of accomplishment’ is gone. I went back to MoP and it wasn’t bad…but overall it was so ridiculously easy that you burn through the content and game in no time.

I don’t understand why GW2 made leveling so quick. I don’t understand why every game ‘rewards you XP’ you for mining, skinning, etc. They give you XP for exploring now.

Items drop too much. You get an item and it’s replaced hours later. You can buy things now.

There was nothing wrong with ‘vanilla’…some would say that’s always the best flavor.

as much as i hated the huge chain of fetch quests in WOW which made me give up at lvl 65 i completely aggree that most of these aspects should be included.

Mirta.5029:

Nick.6972:

I’d do that If I’d get rewarded for that with at least a Title that can be displayed over my name and which would actually mean something, or a special /emotion.

I do agree that there should be more titles for more various things.
However if you love challenge you should do it just for the sake of challenging yourself.

oh dont get me wrong xD i love setting challenges for myself but what got me into MMO’s was that i could show off (is that childish of me?) i enjoy the pride i have of showing off my achievments

Mirta.5029:

Nick.6972:

I would have never played one single speed run in Mirror’s Edge for 3+ hours if I knew I would get nothing for it.
How do you display to someone you’re a better player than he is?

For example in GW1, when I started playing Heroes Ascent, my goal was to become as good as the top rated people, I would have never played for hours searching for a team just because of “fun”. It was painfully slow and mind-numbing boring at times but when I reached rank 3 I knew it was worth it and that kept be going up until rank 8.

I never needed to know that I’m better than someone else. I didn’t chose to go on Mass Effect 1 as a sniper on the hardest difficulty just because I wanted something to show off afterwards. Hell I didn’t run trough Silent Hill 1 on the hardest difficulty finding every ending possible just to get some “achievement” to boast about. Before achievements there were people challenging themselves for fun. It’s about pushing your own personal boundaries, not about getting something shinny at the end of it.

why the hate for the shinies? i can honestly say ive done the same, and can you honestly tell me that gw2 offers opportunities to prove yourself, no im not going to solo lupi xD before you suggest that.

people saying thakittens all about proving it to yourselves aren’t being truly honest to themselves, mmo’s have always been about competition, proving yourself and standing out amongst the huge crowd, this is why it does so well with the reclusive/less social groups as it gives them the opportunities to achieve things that others in the same category couldn’t.

RedCobra.7693:

people saying thakittens all about proving it to yourselves aren’t being truly honest to themselves, mmo’s have always been about competition, proving yourself and standing out amongst the huge crowd, this is why it does so well with the reclusive/less social groups as it gives them the opportunities to achieve things that others in the same category couldn’t.

MMOs have been about this for a certain vocal demographic. But there are plenty of people who play MMOs who aren’t competitive at all. Why should they be left out? What if their numbers are bigger than the competitive types?

Vayne.8563:

RedCobra.7693:

people saying thakittens all about proving it to yourselves aren’t being truly honest to themselves, mmo’s have always been about competition, proving yourself and standing out amongst the huge crowd, this is why it does so well with the reclusive/less social groups as it gives them the opportunities to achieve things that others in the same category couldn’t.

MMOs have been about this for a certain vocal demographic. But there are plenty of people who play MMOs who aren’t competitive at all. Why should they be left out? What if their numbers are bigger than the competitive types?

they havnt been left out, i agree with you everyone should be having fun but its the challenge seekers and difficult goal seekers that are left out.

i highly agree this game is too casual gamer based.
i have +level 40 fotm (no reason to go higher)
i have dungon master
almost made second ledgondary
monthlys done on 3rd day of being put out
5 level 80s
wolf rank in spvp (the only one i care going to with the maps avalible)
6k achivement points

befor some smart kitten points out this is isnt “that good of achivement” for what ever reason what else is there to actualy do?

the only chalenge ive found is like been said the mad king tower… ok fair enough took me 1 and a half hours of play to master it and work out the tricky ending but once done i ended up doing it over 100 times just to show off or help guildies, being able to do it litteraly every time i run it.
now that many people complained look what happened.. xmas jp was a walk in the park … took me less then 10 attempts to master it.

tbh i find it sad the only chalenge was a jumping puzzle

RedCobra.7693:

Vayne.8563:

RedCobra.7693:

people saying thakittens all about proving it to yourselves aren’t being truly honest to themselves, mmo’s have always been about competition, proving yourself and standing out amongst the huge crowd, this is why it does so well with the reclusive/less social groups as it gives them the opportunities to achieve things that others in the same category couldn’t.

MMOs have been about this for a certain vocal demographic. But there are plenty of people who play MMOs who aren’t competitive at all. Why should they be left out? What if their numbers are bigger than the competitive types?

they havnt been left out, i agree with you everyone should be having fun but its the challenge seekers and difficult goal seekers that are left out.

Actually I agree with this completely. You guys have been left out, and it must be pretty sucky for you.

This is the kind of game I’ve been waiting for. Sure I can do hard content, but in reality, I just want to chill these days.

Short answer…….play high level pvp

Long answer….Without a game engine that can produce random mechanics there simply wont be any content that cannot be learned, thus bypassing the challenge. Regardless of the initial level of difficulty any encounter that remains stagnant will become easy after enough repetition.

PS half the challenge in some of the older games we remember was in the form of unresponsive controls

BlackWolf.8605:

i highly agree this game is too casual gamer based.
i have +level 40 fotm (no reason to go higher)
i have dungon master
almost made second ledgondary
monthlys done on 3rd day of being put out
5 level 80s
wolf rank in spvp (the only one i care going to with the maps avalible)
6k achivement points

befor some smart kitten points out this is isnt “that good of achivement” for what ever reason what else is there to actualy do?

the only chalenge ive found is like been said the mad king tower… ok fair enough took me 1 and a half hours of play to master it and work out the tricky ending but once done i ended up doing it over 100 times just to show off or help guildies, being able to do it litteraly every time i run it.
now that many people complained look what happened.. xmas jp was a walk in the park … took me less then 10 attempts to master it.

tbh i find it sad the only chalenge was a jumping puzzle

^THIS
i never had the chance to do tht jp but im guessing with the sounds of it was hard and i would of loved the chance to do it, ive done the stepping stones quite alot but keep getting annoyed at people getting ported up by mesmers, yes im a mesmer and “no god kitten it arent you capable of doing it without port” lmao i enjoyed it tbh, took me a bit to get the hand but i stuck to it, is that so hard for people???

Thank you black wolf, its people like you and me that will soon run out of things to do, they need to add something so incredibally hard that you have to train like crazy to do, that way ppl cant just say oooh i got my fractal backpiece or ooooh check out my new armour all the time.