Guild Wars 2

They should fix the bugs first, then revision all classes. Fixing some of the critical long-time bugs will cause the balancing to break anyway.

Ranger needs more oomph, general utility and also the ability for complete independence from pets (Instead getting a selection of 4 skills, 2 will be generic for a species type and 2 on variant).

Engi needs revision for elixr randomness and useless traits/weapons, as well as straight up buffs to things like kits.

Necro is actually ok, if a little mediocre. At the moment it’s basically a support role that provides fields and conditions, so it needs more variety/straight up buffs in some areas as opposed to a reboot.

Engineer, Mesmer, Elementalist

Honestly, the engineer is so lost, I can’t even think of what to do with it. But for starters, THEY DESERVE A WEAPON SWAP! The Elementalist doesn’t get one because it has extra weapons as part of it’s class mechanic. The Engineer’s kits are optional slotted abilities, it should not lose an entire game mechanic because of a build path it may or may not take.

I still say the mesmer needs a class mechanic that actually fits an illusionist. Right now, they’re just a minion bomber class, something that should have been on the Necromancer. The class is competitive because of the incredible defensive capabilities of illusions+invisibility, but it’s class mechanic is still completely unfulfilling.

And the Elementalist, they need to go back and make it in to the class they planned to before release. A few months before release, they were specifically asked if the Elementalist would be a high-skill entry class, and said no, they intended for every class to have a low-skill entry and high skill ceiling. In a statement only four months after release, they have now claimed they always planned to have the Elementalist as a skill-ceiling only class, and will further that design aspect.

Engineer & Ranger would be the top two I consider need revision to put them on par..

Warrior, Guardian & Elementalist all seem strong in flavour, direction and ability so I’d love to see all the other classes slowly tweaked to reach a similar level of potential.

Ranger-It’s just a “meh” class and doesn’t contribute enough at 80 in either WvW or PVE (FOTM/Dungeons). Damage is below average, the trait lines don’t make a lot of sense, and pets don’t contribute enough. They should have split the class into a Scout type class (Range/Melee) and a true Beastmaster class.

There’s almost a consensus at this point.
Considering all aspects of gameplay (PvE, sPvP, tPvP and WvW), and the amount of “viable” builds for each, the classes that most struggle to do anything significant are – in no particular order:
Elementalist
Engineer
Necromancer
Ranger

Eles doesnt have a ranged dps setup. Only a support setup with some AoE that are limited to 5 targets.

Eles need a pure dps ranged choice, mostly ST with some AoE

I’m super tired of hearing Thief complaints.
The hate toward the class from baddies who can’t counter the easy dagger gimmick (really? how bad can one be…) really drove me away from the game.
I’m not even sure this will ever go away unless Anet pretty much removes stealth and any damage from the class – basically make it killable 100% of the times by any mouse clicker out there.

On topic, I think Warriors need a good look.
The inner clunkiness and predictability of the class can’t be overcome by skill; you reach a point where your skill is limited by the class’ flaws and you can’t progress beyond, your skill is limited to the hard limits of the class.
It’s the only class I played that felt like this; I always found a way to get even better with other classes but not with Warrior really, its simplicity and skills that take control out of you limit my skills incredibily.

I’d also actually agree with warriors for PvP. They far too predictible, whilst easy to play for casuals in PvE (the dominant side of the game at the moment) they’re mediocre at best and I agree with what Red Falcon said.

My 3 level 80’s are in order of completion….Ranger, Engineer, Necro, lol…go figure. I like making wonky classes work. Solo’d everyone of them to 80. WvW with all of them. All of them have issues, but there are viable builds and ways to get around bugs and still have a good time.

I do love that Necro class. Make good money soloing around in Orr for mats on her.

Tough call between rangers and engineers. Engineers have better AoE for e.g. Orr farming and while not great in a dungeon they at least won’t be a hinder due to horrible pet AI from a pet that can’t be put away long term. Rangers can still have better damage in my experience though and they fare better in WvW in everything except certain specific siege situations (both classes have access to 1500 range attacks).

I don’t know which profession needs the most attention, because I have not played them all yet. All the professions I have played I have found fun viable builds for.

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m super tired of hearing Thief complaints.
The hate toward the class from baddies who can’t counter the easy dagger gimmick (really? how bad can one be…) really drove me away from the game.

I think most of the complaints is about stealth rather than the silly burst.

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m not even sure this will ever go away unless Anet pretty much removes stealth

This might be very true. At the very least stealth needs a slight rework because it’s unenjoyable to fight against, seeing as it has no counters. (aoe doesn’t actually counter it, and it’s about to be nerfed anyway. Best you can do is aoe snare and hope they don’t have removal if it hits) I think an easy fix would just be allowing you to know if you hit an stealthed enemy or not. That alone would make a huge difference.

Incurafy.6329:

Columba.9730:

Thieves in WvWvW need nerfs. Perma stealth, highest burst, fastest run speed. Not even remotely balanced.

1. There is no such thing as permanent stealth, even with culling which is ridiculously exaggerated.
2. Thieves don’t have the highest burst and the Backstab combo is so easy to counter that you have to be logged in while AFK to be killed by it (or just terrible at PvP… lol).
3. The fastest that a Thief can run is at 33% speed with the Swiftness buff which they have less access to then most classes and the Signet of Shadows only gives 25% speed buff (like every other speed signet now). Also, Thieves are supposed to be mobile, complaining about that is like complaining that Elementalists can use magic.
4. Please, stop spamming the forums about how unbalanced Thieves are; it’s ridiculous.

1. Just hit walls with CnD, or use heartseeker through a smoke field. Also, culling is very dependent on the number of people, so in large zergs it does get as bad as its made out to be (like an entire zerg rendering on top of you after 5 seconds). Obviously not perma stealth in battle, but they’re still perma stealth.
3. Fleet shadow (though it’s currently bugged) increases movement speed by 50% in stealth.
4. The above doesn’t make them OP though, imo, they actually need buffs to encourage people to do more than burst or condition spam.

I think elementalists need some tweaking on non-d/d skills, especially focus which doesn’t seem to mix well with other weapons. Only having one or two good builds is never good for a profession.

Necros I’m not really sure about, but I hear they still have loads of bugs, and they don’t really seem to be very strong overall (except for boon removal). Maybe minion control would? Reworking condition damage as a whole would help them a lot, as well as some other professions.

Oh and rangers still need some work, especially spirits. That whole skill subset seems really weak.

I suggest you check my topic

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-I-want-from-next-patch/first#post1256276

This is what I think right now

Just gonna agree with most – Rangers, Necros, Engineers

My main is lvl80 Norn Ranger… I find myself leveling alts a lot lately instead of playing her. The traits need help, the pets need even more help and oh I wish I could use a Great Sword/Long Bow combo again. Yes I know you still can but it’s hardly as viable as it once was.
My gaming comp is ‘belly-up’ so maybe by the time it’s fixed I can enjoy playing her again.

Engineers are the weakest profession in the game in terms of their skill synergy, viable builds and comparative usefulness to other professions. That is, they sacrifice effectiveness for versatility and achieve neither in the end.

Engineers do everything but nothing well. To do anything well they have to spec for a role. They have to use every skill to succeed at that one thing, rendering their supposed versatility mostly nonexistant. Once specced into a role, they are still inferior to almost any other profession in that role. Certainly, you can run a four kit engineer if you like and you will be able to do a lot of things. But sucking at four things is not at all useful.

Compare that to elementalists which can spec into a role, and excel at it, while maintaining extreme versatility through their four attunements.

Necromancers are misunderstood. They do need some buffs and useful minions but I don’t think they need a complete revision.

Since my previous post was deleted, I’ll create more elaborate one this time:

The professions listed here are graded from the most broken to the least broken:

1. Engineer-guess what! They don’t have weapon DPS/stats on their Kits/Turrets and have to blow an utility slot just for one measly kit! They are EXTREMELY random, sometimes outright broken(Pistol skill #2 says hello!) and struggle with Defense in any of their so called “versatile” builds. Nay, they can’t even get good and reliable condi removal, let alone. I’ll conclude this by saying that it’s actually fairly simple to fix them(add stats/weapon DPS to the kits/Turrets and fix them bugs), so I wouldn’t say they need a REMAKE. Revision, otoh, hell Yeah!

2. Necro-I know that they are modeled after Death/all that nonsense(Slow but unstoppable, right?), but this is nonsense! Most of their weapons are garbage(at least 50% is), they don’t have Real flow to them and only fully working build is condi one and that one suffers from the way condis are set(get in a group with Sword/Sword Warrior and you are TOTALLY obsolete!). Moreover, it doesn’t feel Like a Necro. That Dark/corrupting presence which is clearly visible in WoW locks is simply not present here! You are just cramming another pile of rubbish in the same area where other players happen to fight/use their finishers. Broken pets, broken Traits, narf skills. What can I say? There is no hope for Necro! REMAKE approved!

3. Thief-yes, you read that one right! They need to be mobile and tricky/devious, not kitten 3-3-3-3-3-3-3-2-2-3-3-3-… Anyhow, all of their weapons need second looking, because: is D/D really so OP or are other options too UP? I’ll let you think about that one. Further, stealth needs to be used as a MOBILITY tool, not as a DPS tool. That would be it. REMAKE approved!

4. Ranger-a Bastion of weirdly paired skills and the weirdest implementation of Pets EVAR! I’ll just be quick and say that it has but one good build(condis) and that it needs REMAKE ASAP! REMAKE approved!

5. Elementalist-could use a good, hard look within S/F weapons. Other weapons are good, as are utilities(sure, the cantrips are the best, but at least all the Utilities are fairly useable). Something needs to be done about prevalence of Water Magic trait line tho. Just a general balance is needed(not that large). REMAKE disapproved!

6. Mesmer-more or less, it’s in the same position as Ele. No remake needed here. It’s fairly balanced.

7. Warrior-sure it needs to be whacked by NARFBAT, but a remake??? No way! No way now, no way tomorrow and no way never.

8-Guardian-see #7 Warrior!

So, I’d Like to see Necro, Thief and Ranger remade and all the other classes merely tweaked(Save for Engi, I don’t feel that adding stats to Kits counts as a full remake). I’ll just put Engi in IDK category…

Vissarion.6509:

Elementalists need more builds, right now only 1 viable that 80% of eles are using (including me ^^)

Ridiculously false comments like this are horribly inaccurate an dilute real conversations.

I think the engineer needs the most focus, followed by the ranger. All the necromancer needs is minor tweaks and bug fixes, in my opinion.

Warriors, their underwater combat needs some serious fixes clearly.

coglin.1496:

Vissarion.6509:

Elementalists need more builds, right now only 1 viable that 80% of eles are using (including me ^^)

Ridiculously false comments like this are horribly inaccurate an dilute real conversations.

I think the engineer needs the most focus, followed by the ranger. All the necromancer needs is minor tweaks and bug fixes, in my opinion.

It’s actually very close to true. It’s either d/d or pure bunker fore most of the community (and most d/d is still very bunkeresque anyway), but fortunately the build we were pigeonholed into is pretty good, so we’re not as in dire of a need as engineer or ranger.

Engineer (Weak)
Ranger (CrossfireCrossfireCrossfire and nothing else)
Ele (I’ll hold my breath for this aoe nerf)

Columba.9730:

Thieves in WvWvW need nerfs. Perma stealth, highest burst, fastest run speed. Not even remotely balanced.

They don’t have the fastest run speed since last patch, necro, ranger and ele are just as fast if not faster (d/d ele)
Highest Burst and Permastealth are two completely different builds you can’t have both on the thief and warriors can put out much higher burst at a faster pace with hb.

I think Rangers and Engineers need the most work for PvE but they aren’t as bad in WvW or PvE as people make them out to be. I play a trap ranger in WvW with LB/S&Wh/Torch and I’m just as lethal as my thief.

coglin.1496:

Vissarion.6509:

Elementalists need more builds, right now only 1 viable that 80% of eles are using (including me ^^)

Ridiculously false comments like this are horribly inaccurate an dilute real conversations.

I think the engineer needs the most focus, followed by the ranger. All the necromancer needs is minor tweaks and bug fixes, in my opinion.

Have you ever even played an Ele? And frankly, you need to buy a thesaurus.

Depending on how you look at it, elementalists have at most three builds in SPvP- Auramancer, Bunker, and Might Stacking. But that could easily be considered one because all three share the exact same weapons and most of the same slotted skills, and the difference in traits is marginal at best.

Auramancer
X -Daggers required
X- Heavily invested in the arcane tree and water, some earth
X- Depends on Cantrips and one sigil, because sigils suck that much

Bunker
X- Daggers required
X- Heavily invested in the arcane tree, water, and earth
X- Mandatory three cantrips

Might Stacking
X-Daggers preffered, can use Scepter (but you will never hit with your best attacks)
X- Mandatory investment in the arcane tree and fire
X- Depends on cantrips

I like how Mesmers keep getting lumped in with Warriors and Guardians as top tier just because people can’t be bothered to learn how to defeat them in sPvP. Willing 2 buy a PvP/PvE split please.

Either way Ranger is the class that still needs the most work.

I approached this from a different angle: “Which Professions [as played by others] have given me the most issues in cooperative play?” I came up with similar answers to the growing consensus: In order of most issues to least issues: Ranger, Necromancer, Engineer, Thief, Elementalist [insert gap here], Guardian/Mesmer/Warrior.

Engineer, Ranger, and Necro all need sweeping changes.

Elementalists and Thieves need more options in their hands. As a player of a Thief main(PVE only), I find that while my ability to stealth my allies is very nice, there’s little other reason for a group to take a Thief. I spend the overwhelming majority of dungeons simply auto-attacking because using my abilities is far less efficient for my dps.

Seeing as how gw2lfg is filled with people asking for Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers….I’d say those professions are fine if not WAY too good. If all other professions are brought up to their levels, great! If not, then they all need a bop on the head from the nerfbat.

FateZero.8536:

Thief needs rebalancing due to their 1shot burst damage. Ele needs more builds, was happy when I read that they might consider allowing Ele using greatsword. Engineer needs more builds too. Guardian need more unique skills not some same skill with different animation.

It’s not 1 shot, it’s a combo of C&D pre-cast, Mug, Backstab.

Grim.9274:

Ranger (CrossfireCrossfireCrossfire and nothing else)

I really hate when people say ranger when they know little about a ranger. It’s not my fault a lot of people basically only use shortbow.

Yes, rangers need work, but to say “Crossfire, nothing else” is totally wrong.

You can easily run sword n’ torch with a toughness/condition build in dungeons and wreck face. You have two evades, one that disengages you from the fight. Now I say rangers still need work because the numbers should be SLIGHTLY higher, but I go into a frothing rage when people think “Ranger means ranged only, that’s what ANET says in the description.”

It’s totally not how they work. I can think of several viable builds, it’s just that 90% of people who rolled a ranger didn’t expect a micromanagement class and don’t switch their pets before they actually DIE, which isn’t that hard to do, mind you.

Because of this, rangers have this sort of hate from the community that’s mostly unfounded. Sorry that you wanted to be an archer, in reality, the GW2 ranger is a pet class, just like guardian is a protective support class, warrior is a high damage class, mesmer is a debuff and support class, etc. And as much as people hate pets, they DO draw aggro and CAN take damage. IMO that’s what rangers add to the game.

Any of you ever do primeval tombs in GW1? there was an all ranger setup that used pets as a meatshield.

When I said they “still need some work”, I don’t mean they need an overhaul. They need higher damage, much stronger spirits, and possibly a bit better shouts and pet damage reduction.

Other than the spirits though, the other buffs could be very slight and it would be fine.

Levetty.1279:

I like how Mesmers keep getting lumped in with Warriors and Guardians as top tier just because people can’t be bothered to learn how to defeat them in sPvP.

I don’t think warriors or guardians are considered top tier in sPvP.

Navzar.2938:

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m super tired of hearing Thief complaints.
The hate toward the class from baddies who can’t counter the easy dagger gimmick (really? how bad can one be…) really drove me away from the game.

I think most of the complaints is about stealth rather than the silly burst.

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m not even sure this will ever go away unless Anet pretty much removes stealth

This might be very true. At the very least stealth needs a slight rework because it’s unenjoyable to fight against, seeing as it has no counters. (aoe doesn’t actually counter it, and it’s about to be nerfed anyway. Best you can do is aoe snare and hope they don’t have removal if it hits) I think an easy fix would just be allowing you to know if you hit an stealthed enemy or not. That alone would make a huge difference.

Incurafy.6329:

Columba.9730:

Thieves in WvWvW need nerfs. Perma stealth, highest burst, fastest run speed. Not even remotely balanced.

1. There is no such thing as permanent stealth, even with culling which is ridiculously exaggerated.
2. Thieves don’t have the highest burst and the Backstab combo is so easy to counter that you have to be logged in while AFK to be killed by it (or just terrible at PvP… lol).
3. The fastest that a Thief can run is at 33% speed with the Swiftness buff which they have less access to then most classes and the Signet of Shadows only gives 25% speed buff (like every other speed signet now). Also, Thieves are supposed to be mobile, complaining about that is like complaining that Elementalists can use magic.
4. Please, stop spamming the forums about how unbalanced Thieves are; it’s ridiculous.

1. Just hit walls with CnD, or use heartseeker through a smoke field. Also, culling is very dependent on the number of people, so in large zergs it does get as bad as its made out to be (like an entire zerg rendering on top of you after 5 seconds). Obviously not perma stealth in battle, but they’re still perma stealth.
3. Fleet shadow (though it’s currently bugged) increases movement speed by 50% in stealth.
4. The above doesn’t make them OP though, imo, they actually need buffs to encourage people to do more than burst or condition spam.

I think elementalists need some tweaking on non-d/d skills, especially focus which doesn’t seem to mix well with other weapons. Only having one or two good builds is never good for a profession.

Necros I’m not really sure about, but I hear they still have loads of bugs, and they don’t really seem to be very strong overall (except for boon removal). Maybe minion control would? Reworking condition damage as a whole would help them a lot, as well as some other professions.

Oh and rangers still need some work, especially spirits. That whole skill subset seems really weak.

Thieves and eles are in the same spot, really.

They’re both very, VERY squishy without their crutches.

For ele it’s a slightly overpowered 30-water trait line (specifically capacity to, use regen while not attuned to water) coupled with horribly under-survivalbe offensive weapon sets (fire and air).

For thief, any mis-twitch at all while not stealthed results in death.

For both professions, they could use a base increase in survival (the capacity to take ONE unlucky hit and live without having to spec a full 30 points in toughess/vitality – and for ele add more evasive maneuvers to weapons), and their “crutch mechanic” toned down.

Levetty.1279:

I like how Mesmers keep getting lumped in with Warriors and Guardians as top tier just because people can’t be bothered to learn how to defeat them in sPvP. Willing 2 buy a PvP/PvE split please.

Either way Ranger is the class that still needs the most work.

I actually love playing my 80 mesmer more than any of my other professions. It’s not only a capable profession with a number of viable builds, but it’s fun, if you learn how to play one well. (I tried Mesmer in the final beta and hated it. Gaining experience in playing the game in general, with three other professions to level 80 and four other professions to various levels before starting my current Mesmer, really prepared me to play the profession. I had no problems leveling up and the profession is a blast at 80. For me anyway).

I do agree on PvE/PvP split on skills that have always been fine in PvE, but have been deemed “broken” for PvP.

Stop the PvP-related nerfs to the PvE profession and I think I could say that, for me, Mesmer is one of the best designed, fun to play professions.

BTW, capable doesn’t always mean fun-to-play. Guardian is very capable, but it can be pretty boring. I never had problems accomplishing things with my Necro, but that’s another very boring profession. Getting the professions that really need work development priority is something I agree with, but a number of professions could use some tweaking, at some point, to make them more fun to pay.

Fiontar.4695:

Levetty.1279:

I like how Mesmers keep getting lumped in with Warriors and Guardians as top tier just because people can’t be bothered to learn how to defeat them in sPvP. Willing 2 buy a PvP/PvE split please.

Either way Ranger is the class that still needs the most work.

I actually love playing my 80 mesmer more than any of my other professions. It’s not only a capable profession with a number of viable builds, but it’s fun, if you learn how to play one well. (I tried Mesmer in the final beta and hated it. Gaining experience in playing the game in general, with three other professions to level 80 and four other professions to various levels before starting my current Mesmer, really prepared me to play the profession. I had no problems leveling up and the profession is a blast at 80. For me anyway).

I do agree on PvE/PvP split on skills that have always been fine in PvE, but have been deemed “broken” for PvP.

Stop the PvP-related nerfs to the PvE profession and I think I could say that, for me, Mesmer is one of the best designed, fun to play professions.

BTW, capable doesn’t always mean fun-to-play. Guardian is very capable, but it can be pretty boring. I never had problems accomplishing things with my Necro, but that’s another very boring profession. Getting the professions that really need work development priority is something I agree with, but a number of professions could use some tweaking, at some point, to make them more fun to pay.

once the shine starts to wear off the clones and “omg clothie with a greatsword” concepts, mesmer is pretty boring too.

-mantras are to mesmers what elixir gun is to engineers.

-the only engaging group support spec introduced was nerfed to bejesus and back over an unrelated bug causing 200% mind wrack damage.

-the profession’s defensive cooldowns and summons can be blocked, blinded, or dodged, and their boon-radiation traits require you to plant them up the keister of your buddies.

Very, very, VERY survivable due to arbitrary and continuous summon of HP-and-aggro proxies, but once the gimmicks become old hat, you’re left with two real builds for pve:

the projectile reflect boon strip support build, and the shattercat build. (condition is a curiosity, but clumsy)

Guardians need some serious tweaking. I afk’d in Cursed shore on my guardian in a contested area and when I came back I was almost down to 50% hp. This is unacceptable. I should never fall below 98% hp at any given time in any given situation.

Please fix this Anet, it’s ruining my gaming experience. Thank you.

I have completed the story with several characters and while I haven’t yet gotten all my 8 characters to level 80, I have been playing them enough to get a general feel, unlocking most of their skills and elites for pve and WvWvW.

Here is my list:
1. Thief
- unlike the other posters complained. Thief is fine for pve. Very easy to play and high survivability due superb mobility + superb downed state. So even if you get downed you can alone get back to fight without any armor repair bills. Thief is not meant to face tank your enemies and you can use other weapons besides dagger and pistol in pve.
- very linear and repetitive (boring) to play with too few viable options for the player
- reason #1 why people quit spvp or WvWvW
- thief burst damage should be reduced
- haste is too good, allowing so fast spike that reaction isn’t always possible
- heartseeker is currently spammable gap closer. It should have higher initiative cost and not autotarget / fly to enemy while inflicting huge damage
- steal / mug should do slightly less damage. The mechanic itself is fine
- cluster bomb is the most overpowered area attack skill in the game. Yes, even elementalists don’t have anything like it
- either change stealth into blocking (while being still visible) or make the stealth last a bit shorter time and in stealth characters should be able to move only half of the speed
- give thieves some support and utility e.g. shadow refuge is superb skill, but currently the only really good thief support skill. Maybe buff venom and trap skills and give thieves the ability to remove conditions from allies or remove a boon from the enemy?

2. Engineer
- By far the rarest character class in high level pve and WvWvW
- fun to play, but also requires more effort to play effectively than other other profession
- reason #1 to go away from keyboard / ragequit in pvp if you get an engineer in team.
- Engineer does less dps than any other profession, yet it is not versatile like Anet says it is. Fix: Engineer weapons should do more direct damage, perhaps benefit from the +power etc. stats of the main hand weapon?
- most traits are bugged/broken or underpowered. E.g. adrenal implant is a joke of a grandmaster trait, for example rangers get a minor trait called natural vigor, which does the same! Make the traits both useful and fix the bugs
- many weapon kits are also bugged or so quirky making them half-useless e.g. elixir gun doesn’t heal enough (increase the amount of healing, make it scale with healing power), elixir gun #2 misses 90% of the time against moving opponents. Med kit antidote doesn’t remove all conditions like it says in the description and pretty much useless if you get rooted (immobilize)
- many of the defensive abilities of engineer have too long cooldowns (60 s or so), reduce them to 30 s.
- too many random effects, not viable to competitive play
- Turrets are pretty much useless
- Elites are useless, besides the Supply crate

3. Necromancer
- probably the 2nd rarest class in high level pve and WvWvW
- very easy profession to play with high survivability due having death shroud, which is basically a 2nd health bar
- unlike the typical complaints seen in forums, necros can dish out good dps and burst with a power necro build (25 stacks vulnerability, dagger/dagger, axe/focus) also necro staff is a solid good long distance weapon.
- maybe give necros even more life steal, not by much, but 10% increase
- Some of the wells and other skills have too long cooldown
- Minions feel meh, basically like weaker versions of ranger’s pet. Some Ranger pets can tank better or inflict tons of different conditions. Does anybody find the minions useful besides taking up aggro in pve? Suggestion: give minions abilities to inflict some more conditions

Deniara

I would have to agree Ranger (who is my main and regretting it) needs a huge revamp. I put so much work into leveling him I really hate the fact he is the most useless when it comes to doing activities with friends. I’ve always been more of a caster/healer in typical MMO’s so I took a chance at Ranger this go around arg! LOL

Second would be Engineer and 3rd Necromancer.

I really wish we could get some ANET eyes on this thread as the responses don’t seem to be very “random” but the general response is about the same on almost everyone. There is obviously a big problem and after seeing this thread it really upsets me to see how many agree with the most useless class’s. I will always like my ranger but I think its time I focus on a different class till things hopefully get fixed

I’d say engineer but that’s one of my two characters (the other being a guardian (which I also don’t find the superpowered beast everyone else does)). It seems like I do so little damage and take so much. It wouldn’t be so bad if respawn times were much longer, but there have been many times when an enemy has respawned before I could kill a second. I seem to have the tendency to favor the most broken characters in games (in WoW, I was a warlock). Don’t get me wrong, I love the game and think it’s easily the best MMO I’ve played, but I regularly see characters soloing multiple enemies, and I have trouble against anything not one on one.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I have completed the story with several characters and while I haven’t yet gotten all my 8 characters to level 80, I have been playing them enough to get a general feel, unlocking most of their skills and elites for pve and WvWvW.

Here is my list:
1. Thief
- unlike the other posters complained. Thief is fine for pve. Very easy to play and high survivability due superb mobility + superb downed state. So even if you get downed you can alone get back to fight without any armor repair bills. Thief is not meant to face tank your enemies and you can use other weapons besides dagger and pistol in pve.
- very linear and repetitive (boring) to play with too few viable options for the player
- reason #1 why people quit spvp or WvWvW
- thief burst damage should be reduced
- haste is too good, allowing so fast spike that reaction isn’t always possible
- heartseeker is currently spammable gap closer. It should have higher initiative cost and not autotarget / fly to enemy while inflicting huge damage
- steal / mug should do slightly less damage. The mechanic itself is fine
- cluster bomb is the most overpowered area attack skill in the game. Yes, even elementalists don’t have anything like it
- either change stealth into blocking (while being still visible) or make the stealth last a bit shorter time and in stealth characters should be able to move only half of the speed
- give thieves some support and utility e.g. shadow refuge is superb skill, but currently the only really good thief support skill. Maybe buff venom and trap skills and give thieves the ability to remove conditions from allies or remove a boon from the enemy?

2. Engineer
- By far the rarest character class in high level pve and WvWvW
- fun to play, but also requires more effort to play effectively than other other profession
- reason #1 to go away from keyboard / ragequit in pvp if you get an engineer in team.
- Engineer does less dps than any other profession, yet it is not versatile like Anet says it is. Fix: Engineer weapons should do more direct damage, perhaps benefit from the +power etc. stats of the main hand weapon?
- most traits are bugged/broken or underpowered. E.g. adrenal implant is a joke of a grandmaster trait, for example rangers get a minor trait called natural vigor, which does the same! Make the traits both useful and fix the bugs
- many weapon kits are also bugged or so quirky making them half-useless e.g. elixir gun doesn’t heal enough (increase the amount of healing, make it scale with healing power), elixir gun #2 misses 90% of the time against moving opponents. Med kit antidote doesn’t remove all conditions like it says in the description and pretty much useless if you get rooted (immobilize)
- many of the defensive abilities of engineer have too long cooldowns (60 s or so), reduce them to 30 s.
- too many random effects, not viable to competitive play
- Turrets are pretty much useless
- Elites are useless, besides the Supply crate

3. Necromancer
- probably the 2nd rarest class in high level pve and WvWvW
- very easy profession to play with high survivability due having death shroud, which is basically a 2nd health bar
- unlike the typical complaints seen in forums, necros can dish out good dps and burst with a power necro build (25 stacks vulnerability, dagger/dagger, axe/focus) also necro staff is a solid good long distance weapon.
- maybe give necros even more life steal, not by much, but 10% increase
- Some of the wells and other skills have too long cooldown
- Minions feel meh, basically like weaker versions of ranger’s pet. Some Ranger pets can tank better or inflict tons of different conditions. Does anybody find the minions useful besides taking up aggro in pve? Suggestion: give minions abilities to inflict some more conditions

Deniara

Excellent post. There is a lot of great insight into the professions in PvE in this. Though my thief is too low level for me to say you got them right, your synopsis of the engineer and necro is right on the money, so I’ll trust you on the thief too. Thanks for taking the time to post this.

Rangers are an easy choice. It straight up FEELS BAD to be a Ranger right now because we’re balanced around always having a pet, and that pet doing ~40% of our net output (including utility…). At least with Necroes or Engineers you aren’t forced to run around with a pet, and therefore don’t need to be balanced around that pet (or pets).

Sure if you bust out a spreadsheet and then test based on immobile dummies, Rangers probably aren’t too far off. But in terms of feel, giving an NPC 40% of your power feels absolutely awful for the player, especially when you have even less control over it than comparable systems, like WoW.

I mean seriously, if we’re supposed to be the pet profession, how come even WoW is beating the snot out of our ability to use our pets? How come the only real way to customize our pet is to force ourselves down 30 BM, horribly gimping the actual Ranger in the process, and for a benefit that just adds up to having an extra pet passive or two? Why are our pet utilities are literally just movement commands? Why are half the melee pets incapable of hitting moving targets? Why are pets designed such that only Ranged and Bears stand any chance of living longer than 2s in any given situation? And don’t even get me started on AI and UI issues…

Engineer and Rangers

Necros and Ele’s need some buffs but not revisions.

why can a warrior “out rifle” an engineer? and speaking of the engineers rifle … why are half the skills “shotgun” skills.

Why can Thieves out dual wield pistol us?

it seems to me most of the engineers kits are there for just fluff. I would rather have less kits overall if you make 2-3 really good.

plasmacutter.2709:

Fiontar.4695:

Levetty.1279:

I like how Mesmers keep getting lumped in with Warriors and Guardians as top tier just because people can’t be bothered to learn how to defeat them in sPvP. Willing 2 buy a PvP/PvE split please.

Either way Ranger is the class that still needs the most work.

I actually love playing my 80 mesmer more than any of my other professions. It’s not only a capable profession with a number of viable builds, but it’s fun, if you learn how to play one well. (I tried Mesmer in the final beta and hated it. Gaining experience in playing the game in general, with three other professions to level 80 and four other professions to various levels before starting my current Mesmer, really prepared me to play the profession. I had no problems leveling up and the profession is a blast at 80. For me anyway).

I do agree on PvE/PvP split on skills that have always been fine in PvE, but have been deemed “broken” for PvP.

Stop the PvP-related nerfs to the PvE profession and I think I could say that, for me, Mesmer is one of the best designed, fun to play professions.

BTW, capable doesn’t always mean fun-to-play. Guardian is very capable, but it can be pretty boring. I never had problems accomplishing things with my Necro, but that’s another very boring profession. Getting the professions that really need work development priority is something I agree with, but a number of professions could use some tweaking, at some point, to make them more fun to pay.

once the shine starts to wear off the clones and “omg clothie with a greatsword” concepts, mesmer is pretty boring too.

-mantras are to mesmers what elixir gun is to engineers.

-the only engaging group support spec introduced was nerfed to bejesus and back over an unrelated bug causing 200% mind wrack damage.

-the profession’s defensive cooldowns and summons can be blocked, blinded, or dodged, and their boon-radiation traits require you to plant them up the keister of your buddies.

Very, very, VERY survivable due to arbitrary and continuous summon of HP-and-aggro proxies, but once the gimmicks become old hat, you’re left with two real builds for pve:

the projectile reflect boon strip support build, and the shattercat build. (condition is a curiosity, but clumsy)

All true, plus the fact we are the slowest class in the game and it has become even worse since the buffs to movement signets.

But because the skill level of the general PvP player is low and we have Portal, Mesmers have got a reputation for being some god tier OP class and that reputation has somehow seeped over to PvE even though it is the worst class in open world PvE and only brought to dungeons for boon stripping/portal/Time Warp.

Levetty.1279:

All true, plus the fact we are the slowest class in the game and it has become even worse since the buffs to movement signets.

But because the skill level of the general PvP player is low and we have Portal, Mesmers have got a reputation for being some god tier OP class and that reputation has somehow seeped over to PvE even though it is the worst class in open world PvE and only brought to dungeons for boon stripping/portal/Time Warp.

Two revisions I can get behind for EVERYONE:

remove portal and quickness mechanics from the game.

They “break” otherwise balanced abilities and group comps.

Maybe then mesmers and thieves can get some proper balancing instead of band-aids.

I support overhauling Mesmers, due to all the nerfs that came from the PvP side they are trash at PvE and generally only get a pass because of being able to portal lazy players past dungeon parts and time warp.

This thread is sooooo subjective. If you wan’t to make a serious attempt to promote balance-changes then you had to play every class of this game in a lot of different ways in a lot of scenarios ( pve, spvp, wvwvw ) and collect a lot of data. Also you had to try a lot of different builds and be good at them. Just trying something for 2min and failing at it and saying it is impossible/too hard is not a good way of evaluating the condition a class is in. Most people will just post here that they feel that something is bad or good, but this mostly is not grounded in reallity.

Just reminds me off
Scissor says: “Rock is overpowered nerf it. Paper is fine.”

Nozdrum.2894:

This thread is sooooo subjective. If you wan’t to make a serious attempt to promote balance-changes then you had to play every class of this game in a lot of different ways in a lot of scenarios ( pve, spvp, wvwvw ) and collect a lot of data. Also you had to try a lot of different builds and be good at them. Just trying something for 2min and failing at it and saying it is impossible/too hard is not a good way of evaluating the condition a class is in. Most people will just post here that they feel that something is bad or good, but this mostly is not grounded in reallity.

Just reminds me off
Scissor says: “Rock is overpowered nerf it. Paper is fine.”

Then why are “rock” “scissors” and “paper” all saying engineer over and over again?

The Ranger seriously needs a look into, I figured I’d be able to play it like in GW1 but that’s not the case at all, instead I’m stuck lugging around an animal that stole half my damage and dies in a couple of seconds in any top level content.

What really needs to happen is to separate the Ranger and Beast Master entirely.

Nozdrum.2894:

This thread is sooooo subjective. If you wan’t to make a serious attempt to promote balance-changes then you had to play every class of this game in a lot of different ways in a lot of scenarios ( pve, spvp, wvwvw ) and collect a lot of data. Also you had to try a lot of different builds and be good at them. Just trying something for 2min and failing at it and saying it is impossible/too hard is not a good way of evaluating the condition a class is in. Most people will just post here that they feel that something is bad or good, but this mostly is not grounded in reallity.

Just reminds me off
Scissor says: “Rock is overpowered nerf it. Paper is fine.”

yep its all subjective thats why MOST are saying Ranger or Engineer mostly.

Yeah, you see a lot of the same professions come up over and over again when people post threads like this – ranger and engineer currently.

And anybody who spends some time in the meta will see why the engineer and ranger keep coming up – they just don’t bring anything to the table that some other profession doesn’t do much better.

i’m shocked…so many “work on ranger” posts.
rangers are quite awesome. why? you can’t mess ‘em up…you can be supportive, aggressive, range, melee, condition, burst…and all of those attributes at once.
that’s what makes this class…being good at anything

it’s pet system works fine too…the choice of pets could be better tho…i feel kinda forced sometimes to just stick to one with the highest DPS

elementalist’s water/healing abilitys could be improved

but they should work on thiefs and mesmers imo
too bad for PvE (at the mesmer’s case only until lv40-60 depending on the actual player’s skills) and too good for PvP

Engineers could use a revision because they’re less fun to play than others (no auto-attack).

Thieves could use revision because their mechanics are inherently flawed.

ENGINEERS!

So convoluted, so many bugs, so many underwhelming effects.

It’s like the complete opposite of this…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
Which is probably the joke.