Why A New Race Is Highly Possible [Merged]
From the delays and still unfinished hot content I don’t think gw2 will be in active production much past the next expac if that ever happens. Sure a lot of die hards will stay for the next 8-10 years until the servers are closed, but we are already seeing the typical quarterly update pattern a company uses when they wish to start preparing a game for discontinued updates.
From the delays and still unfinished hot content I don’t think gw2 will be in active production much past the next expac if that ever happens. Sure a lot of die hards will stay for the next 8-10 years until the servers are closed, but we are already seeing the typical quarterly update pattern a company uses when they wish to start preparing a game for discontinued updates.
It’s also the same quarterly update pattern an active game uses, especially since there are updates more often than quarterly.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Tengu:
- Capital city: Dominion of Winds
- Male voice: The same voice as the NPCs uses or the newer Tengu’s Clans in HotS areas. Or an Anet employee.. it shouldn’t cost that much for hiring a VA..
- Female voice: Same as above.
- Main storyline: Should be somehow a bridge to the new expansion as a way to introduce the Tengu as a playable race, and other races are able to complete the same storyline because the expansion’s storyline.
- Background: Maybe small quests or a new dungeon to regain of what happened and why Tengu were kicked out from Cantha and if any Tengus are still alive in Elona.
- Cultural armor: Shouldn’t be too hard or cost too much to design 3 armor types for each weight class.
- Other armors: Render it as male version for all Tengu bodies, as Charr and Asura have.
I just don’t see why Anet refuses to listen to GW2 Community regards this topic of adding a new race. Tengu, as the most requested race has been suggested for years and probably 80% would agree of having Tengu as a new playable race.
Blizzard are able to create new races, adding armors, voices etc. so why can’t Anet do the same?
Yes, before incoming ’’omg blizz is alot bigggger than GW!11’’ replies, it wont matter because Anet CAN create aswell!
Remember when Anet said GW2 will never have any expansions since the Living World system...?
|GW1 2008~|GW2 BETA player|Separatist|Nightmare Court|Ebonhawke|Ascalon|White Mantle|71 characters|
(edited by Alga.6498)
I wonder if ‘these companies’ that use a quarterly update pattern to prepare to discontinue updates then start releasing update bi-monthly as this game has. Is that part of the ‘pattern’, as well? To release updates more frequently before discontinuing?
Let’s hope ArenaNet doesn’t listen the the GW2 Community without considering the best interests of the game, else the game would be a mess; the content is too easy/the content is too difficult, this Profession is OP/this Profession is UP, mounts/no mounts, capes/no capes, this race/that race/no race, more of this/less of that.
If the ‘community’ got its way, well, I think few would play the game.
(edited by Inculpatus cedo.9234)
Don’t forget the posts of this item should be forced to be less expensive since I need it and the posts or this item should forced to be more expensive because I want to sell it.
A lot of people keep involving personal story and starter zones to a new race. You dont seem to get it at all. A new race would never get a personal story because their introduction to the game would come through the living world episodes….its the most logical way. Anything relating to the reasons why they joined the cause would also be through living world and lore written about the race. As for starter level zones…..that is probably not happening unless they introduce the race in a new continent. You guys need to see the bigger picture. As for voice actors…..that is the least of their worries. Let me explain why. No matter what race you get the script is all the same because you are the main character, UNLESS you’re doing personal story. Since personal story is not logical for a new race, there wont be any problems. The difference in dialogue is minimal and there are plenty of programs that alter a voice to sound like a different person or species.
A lot of people keep involving personal story and starter zones to a new race. You dont seem to get it at all. A new race would never get a personal story because their introduction to the game would come through the living world episodes….its the most logical way. Anything relating to the reasons why they joined the cause would also be through living world and lore written about the race. As for starter level zones…..that is probably not happening unless they introduce the race in a new continent. You guys need to see the bigger picture. As for voice actors…..that is the least of their worries. Let me explain why. No matter what race you get the script is all the same because you are the main character, UNLESS you’re doing personal story. Since personal story is not logical for a new race, there wont be any problems. The difference in dialogue is minimal and there are plenty of programs that alter a voice to sound like a different person or species.
I think you are the one not getting it. Races have stories and their own cities, not to mention lore and a reason to “be there” Not just a casual introduction through the LS.
A lot of people keep involving personal story and starter zones to a new race. You dont seem to get it at all. A new race would never get a personal story because their introduction to the game would come through the living world episodes….its the most logical way. Anything relating to the reasons why they joined the cause would also be through living world and lore written about the race. As for starter level zones…..that is probably not happening unless they introduce the race in a new continent. You guys need to see the bigger picture. As for voice actors…..that is the least of their worries. Let me explain why. No matter what race you get the script is all the same because you are the main character, UNLESS you’re doing personal story. Since personal story is not logical for a new race, there wont be any problems. The difference in dialogue is minimal and there are plenty of programs that alter a voice to sound like a different person or species.
So they will never be involved in any of the Living Story episodes either with regards to voice acting.
As for starter areas and level 1-80 story, I want any new races to have what the original ones had. They had a story before their story joined with ours. Like what they were during the time our other characters were fighting Zhaitan, Scarlet, and Mordremoth, etc.
A lot of people keep involving personal story and starter zones to a new race. You dont seem to get it at all. A new race would never get a personal story because their introduction to the game would come through the living world episodes….its the most logical way. Anything relating to the reasons why they joined the cause would also be through living world and lore written about the race. As for starter level zones…..that is probably not happening unless they introduce the race in a new continent. You guys need to see the bigger picture. As for voice actors…..that is the least of their worries. Let me explain why. No matter what race you get the script is all the same because you are the main character, UNLESS you’re doing personal story. Since personal story is not logical for a new race, there wont be any problems. The difference in dialogue is minimal and there are plenty of programs that alter a voice to sound like a different person or species.
So they will never be involved in any of the Living Story episodes either with regards to voice acting.
As for starter areas and level 1-80 story, I want any new races to have what the original ones had. They had a story before their story joined with ours. Like what they were during the time our other characters were fighting Zhaitan, Scarlet, and Mordremoth, etc.
My friend, that is called lore. No one will ever add the backstory to the game in any other way. A writer will sit down and write their lore and post it on wiki and so on.
You didnt get the voice acting part. They will have voice acting in living world since the script for the main characters are all the same. Little dialogue would be different for a new race. All they would need to do is use a program to alter their voice and thats it, very simple. You can therefore use the SAME voice actor for multiple characters.
A lot of people keep involving personal story and starter zones to a new race. You dont seem to get it at all. A new race would never get a personal story because their introduction to the game would come through the living world episodes….its the most logical way. Anything relating to the reasons why they joined the cause would also be through living world and lore written about the race. As for starter level zones…..that is probably not happening unless they introduce the race in a new continent. You guys need to see the bigger picture. As for voice actors…..that is the least of their worries. Let me explain why. No matter what race you get the script is all the same because you are the main character, UNLESS you’re doing personal story. Since personal story is not logical for a new race, there wont be any problems. The difference in dialogue is minimal and there are plenty of programs that alter a voice to sound like a different person or species.
So they will never be involved in any of the Living Story episodes either with regards to voice acting.
As for starter areas and level 1-80 story, I want any new races to have what the original ones had. They had a story before their story joined with ours. Like what they were during the time our other characters were fighting Zhaitan, Scarlet, and Mordremoth, etc.
My friend, that is called lore. No one will ever add the backstory to the game in any other way. A writer will sit down and write their lore and post it on wiki and so on.
You didnt get the voice acting part. They will have voice acting in living world since the script for the main characters are all the same. Little dialogue would be different for a new race. All they would need to do is use a program to alter their voice and thats it, very simple. You can therefore use the SAME voice actor for multiple characters.
I don’t want my “New Race” character to have the same voice as my Human, Charr, Norn, Asura, or Syvalri characters. And you’d still have to pay them for the additional work. Either by increasing their contract pay or paying them for the additional work done.
Not to mention, dialogue would have to be done for them for LS2 and on unless you’re really saying that new races wouldn’t be allowed to do those stories.
And I don’t want to just read about what my character did before they entered the story or be forced to have my character start out at level 80. I want to have choices to jump into the LS# or do my character’s personal story. I want to have the choice to level my character up from level 1 to level 80 or to just tome them up to level 80. I want choices. I don’t want ANet to choose for me.
I just don’t see why Anet refuses to listen to GW2 Community regards this topic of adding a new race. Tengu, as the most requested race has been suggested for years and probably 80% would agree of having Tengu as a new playable race.
If anet gave us everything we asked for it would be a junkyard of ideas. Anet have a design and makes choices that fit that design. A new race is fun, but if it doesnt forward their plot its an awfull lot of work that adds nothing gameplaywise. Just because tengu is the popular candidatd for a new race doesnt mean the concept of a new race is a good idea.
A lot of people keep involving personal story and starter zones to a new race. You dont seem to get it at all. A new race would never get a personal story because their introduction to the game would come through the living world episodes….its the most logical way. Anything relating to the reasons why they joined the cause would also be through living world and lore written about the race. As for starter level zones…..that is probably not happening unless they introduce the race in a new continent. You guys need to see the bigger picture. As for voice actors…..that is the least of their worries. Let me explain why. No matter what race you get the script is all the same because you are the main character, UNLESS you’re doing personal story. Since personal story is not logical for a new race, there wont be any problems. The difference in dialogue is minimal and there are plenty of programs that alter a voice to sound like a different person or species.
So they will never be involved in any of the Living Story episodes either with regards to voice acting.
As for starter areas and level 1-80 story, I want any new races to have what the original ones had. They had a story before their story joined with ours. Like what they were during the time our other characters were fighting Zhaitan, Scarlet, and Mordremoth, etc.
My friend, that is called lore. No one will ever add the backstory to the game in any other way. A writer will sit down and write their lore and post it on wiki and so on.
You didnt get the voice acting part. They will have voice acting in living world since the script for the main characters are all the same. Little dialogue would be different for a new race. All they would need to do is use a program to alter their voice and thats it, very simple. You can therefore use the SAME voice actor for multiple characters.
I don’t want my “New Race” character to have the same voice as my Human, Charr, Norn, Asura, or Syvalri characters. And you’d still have to pay them for the additional work. Either by increasing their contract pay or paying them for the additional work done.
Not to mention, dialogue would have to be done for them for LS2 and on unless you’re really saying that new races wouldn’t be allowed to do those stories.
And I don’t want to just read about what my character did before they entered the story or be forced to have my character start out at level 80. I want to have choices to jump into the LS# or do my character’s personal story. I want to have the choice to level my character up from level 1 to level 80 or to just tome them up to level 80. I want choices. I don’t want ANet to choose for me.
You’re simply stuck on the same idea. You still dont get it. You already have the same dialogue for all your races…..living world stories have almost identical dialogue for all races that you main because its the script for the main character. There would be no “additional pay” because voices can be altered with programs…..Arenanet isnt located in their mother’s basement, im sure they have access to all these programs without needing to pay a voice actor extra money…..to repeat the same script.
The reason for the new race joining the cause would be explained through lore AND living world. Additionally why on earth would new dialogue be added to LS2??? That is illogical, we are already in LS3…..and i doubt a new race would be introduced until at least season 5.
What you want doesnt really matter for creating a story that makes sense. What you want doesnt make sense so i doubt it will ever be included. Personal story would be the living world for the new race. Little additional dialogue would be required because eventually the stories would merge. The race would just be the “commander” of a new squad relating to the race. eventually stories would merge in living world causing the dialogue to become the same for any “commander”.
Think about it. You’re the commander. Regardless of whatever race you play, if the race is the “commander”, then dialogue would be the same. The race you choose doesnt matter, its the position of “commander” that does.
(edited by Adry.7512)
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
@Adry.7512
You’re really telling me, that as a customer, that what I want doesn’t matter?! When what I want factors into what I choose to buy and what I choose to not buy? I can’t think of anyone who doesn’t factor in what they want into what they buy or don’t buy.
That if I do not want a race put in withbshort cuts taken just to have a new race, I should not say anything because what I want doesn’t matter? That I shouldn’t voice my preference for a race that has the same effort put into it as the other races because what I want doesn’t matter?
What I want matters. I’m not saying that ANet should listen to what I say and only do what I want, but what I want matters. What you want matters. They’ll have people do studies to figure out if your preference for race or mine would give them the most money. But I can’t imagine that most people would want a glorified tonic for a new race. Not at the expense of content that even players who only play humans would play.
If these voice-changing programs are so efficient and desirable, why is it that we have different voice actors for the 5 races we do have? Why isn’t there just one voice actor for all the game?
Also, what about the lines our characters utter when not in a story? Will the new race be mute? I suppose that would be one way to resolve the voice actor problem.
Regardless, I would prefer new content to play with the existing races rather than resources spent on just a cosmetically-different character.
Any race that has an existing city already like DoW, Skrittsburgh, or any of the Kodan or Quaggan hubs can just make use of Asura gates to access starter zones. The fact they are not adjacent to their city should not be an absolute. And while I am on the side of this argument that believes another race will never be introduced, I also think we make the devs out to be the cats building the pyramid. I mean its difficult, but far from impossible for them. The truer statement is, that its not cost effective.
So if no race, what will get with the next expac? Because it has to be MUCH larger than HoT or kids will riot.
Angelina is free game again.
Crystal Desert
Crystal Desert
@Adry.7512
You’re really telling me, that as a customer, that what I want doesn’t matter?! When what I want factors into what I choose to buy and what I choose to not buy? I can’t think of anyone who doesn’t factor in what they want into what they buy or don’t buy.
That if I do not want a race put in withbshort cuts taken just to have a new race, I should not say anything because what I want doesn’t matter? That I shouldn’t voice my preference for a race that has the same effort put into it as the other races because what I want doesn’t matter?
What I want matters. I’m not saying that ANet should listen to what I say and only do what I want, but what I want matters. What you want matters. They’ll have people do studies to figure out if your preference for race or mine would give them the most money. But I can’t imagine that most people would want a glorified tonic for a new race. Not at the expense of content that even players who only play humans would play.
You’re not a customer at a fast food place, you’re a customer of art. Book writers don’t make a story based off of what their customers want. They make it and you like it, that’s it. So no, your opinion has no reflection on a developer’s/writer’s creativity and desire in which he/she wants the story to go. You have no influence at all. You will either like it and buy it, or eventually like and buy it. If you decide to stop playing and completely throw away all you invested into the game, three other new players could find the new story development complex and intriguing.
What I want doesn’t matter either. You are right in the sense that studies can be made on what the public suggests, but that study doesn’t consist of more than just a few devs reading our stuff and talking about it in staff meetings. No real studies are actually conducted.
Anyways, the possibilities in living world are endless and story development wise, they will create art. If they base a story based on our desires, then they will run their company to the ground. Creativity isn’t suggested by others, it’s created by the self based on our many experiences, thoughts, and imagination.
Other mmos seem to do just fine when they have a beast-race and it comes to sharing armor. They don’t ignore the tail, there is no stretching and it doesn’t fit awkwardly like all norn skirts do.
Why not just have a few team designers that focus only on norn, charr, asura and sylvari so we will see better armors for them.
@Adry.7512
You’re really telling me, that as a customer, that what I want doesn’t matter?! When what I want factors into what I choose to buy and what I choose to not buy? I can’t think of anyone who doesn’t factor in what they want into what they buy or don’t buy.
That if I do not want a race put in withbshort cuts taken just to have a new race, I should not say anything because what I want doesn’t matter? That I shouldn’t voice my preference for a race that has the same effort put into it as the other races because what I want doesn’t matter?
What I want matters. I’m not saying that ANet should listen to what I say and only do what I want, but what I want matters. What you want matters. They’ll have people do studies to figure out if your preference for race or mine would give them the most money. But I can’t imagine that most people would want a glorified tonic for a new race. Not at the expense of content that even players who only play humans would play.
You’re not a customer at a fast food place, you’re a customer of art. Book writers don’t make a story based off of what their customers want. They make it and you like it, that’s it. So no, your opinion has no reflection on a developer’s/writer’s creativity and desire in which he/she wants the story to go. You have no influence at all. You will either like it and buy it, or eventually like and buy it. If you decide to stop playing and completely throw away all you invested into the game, three other new players could find the new story development complex and intriguing.
What I want doesn’t matter either. You are right in the sense that studies can be made on what the public suggests, but that study doesn’t consist of more than just a few devs reading our stuff and talking about it in staff meetings. No real studies are actually conducted.
Anyways, the possibilities in living world are endless and story development wise, they will create art. If they base a story based on our desires, then they will run their company to the ground. Creativity isn’t suggested by others, it’s created by the self based on our many experiences, thoughts, and imagination.
But if the author’s publisher doesn’t think enough of the public wants it, it won’t get published. So again, what the customer wants does matter.
And many more could leave the game due to the shoehorned in race than comes in.
Because to me, a company who will cut corners to add in a race into their game may cut corners for other things. So to me, a company shouldn’t cut corners. They should give new races the same things they gave to the original races.
- Unique voice actors – not voicing any of the existing playable characters, electronic editing of existing characters does not cut it for me. I want change in pace and where emphasis is placed and dialect like the current characters have.
- Unique personal story chapters, with a few choices (this does not mean 67 missions, this could be 18 missions long – aka, the same chapters that are unique to each original race).
- Unique racial city
- Unique 1-15 zone
- 18 sets of unique cultural armor (3 tiers, 3 weight classes, 2 genders), though 9 sets if gender doesn’t affect clothing
What is the point of a “new race” if it uses the same voice actor, has no personal story of its own, uses similar/identical cultural armor, uses the same armor skins as another race, uses the same animations, etc?
True, there are plenty of games for which ‘race’ is just a slight reskin and in which the voice is associated with profession (or is chosen by the user from a list). GW2 isn’t one of those games.
Regardless, the point is that the OP says “a new race is highly possible” — all anyone needs to do is point out that the facts don’t support that. There are a variety of ways to set up a new race in GW2 and all require a lot of work, some more and some less. That same effort can be applied to all sorts of other content that is more likely to appeal to more people for longer periods of time.
That makes a new race unlikely, very unlikely.
In other words, while a new race is possible, I don’t recommend spending too much time worrying about which race, as it’s probable that we won’t see one during GW2’s lifetime.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
@Adry.7512
You’re really telling me, that as a customer, that what I want doesn’t matter?! When what I want factors into what I choose to buy and what I choose to not buy? I can’t think of anyone who doesn’t factor in what they want into what they buy or don’t buy.
That if I do not want a race put in withbshort cuts taken just to have a new race, I should not say anything because what I want doesn’t matter? That I shouldn’t voice my preference for a race that has the same effort put into it as the other races because what I want doesn’t matter?
What I want matters. I’m not saying that ANet should listen to what I say and only do what I want, but what I want matters. What you want matters. They’ll have people do studies to figure out if your preference for race or mine would give them the most money. But I can’t imagine that most people would want a glorified tonic for a new race. Not at the expense of content that even players who only play humans would play.
@Adry.7512
You’re really telling me, that as a customer, that what I want doesn’t matter?! When what I want factors into what I choose to buy and what I choose to not buy? I can’t think of anyone who doesn’t factor in what they want into what they buy or don’t buy.
That if I do not want a race put in withbshort cuts taken just to have a new race, I should not say anything because what I want doesn’t matter? That I shouldn’t voice my preference for a race that has the same effort put into it as the other races because what I want doesn’t matter?
What I want matters. I’m not saying that ANet should listen to what I say and only do what I want, but what I want matters. What you want matters. They’ll have people do studies to figure out if your preference for race or mine would give them the most money. But I can’t imagine that most people would want a glorified tonic for a new race. Not at the expense of content that even players who only play humans would play.
You’re not a customer at a fast food place, you’re a customer of art. Book writers don’t make a story based off of what their customers want. They make it and you like it, that’s it. So no, your opinion has no reflection on a developer’s/writer’s creativity and desire in which he/she wants the story to go. You have no influence at all. You will either like it and buy it, or eventually like and buy it. If you decide to stop playing and completely throw away all you invested into the game, three other new players could find the new story development complex and intriguing.
What I want doesn’t matter either. You are right in the sense that studies can be made on what the public suggests, but that study doesn’t consist of more than just a few devs reading our stuff and talking about it in staff meetings. No real studies are actually conducted.
Anyways, the possibilities in living world are endless and story development wise, they will create art. If they base a story based on our desires, then they will run their company to the ground. Creativity isn’t suggested by others, it’s created by the self based on our many experiences, thoughts, and imagination.
Oh really?
How about a counter example: Season one and no expansions.
Their vision for the game back then was the Living World. A true living world where events happened and then the world moved on and the events didn’t repeat. A game world that imitated real life. That was their artistic dream for this game. They planned to have no expansions because their artistic vision had the game opening up through these temporary events.
It didn’t work out. More people wanted a traditional game with content that appears and stays forever. People complained on the forums. ANet had a poll in game after the Lions Arch Karka event to ask if you wanted temporary, one time events or not. So after season one was over they switched from temporary Living World events to events and story that was repeatable, and started working on an expansion.
It’s very obvious we had a lot of influence on the direction of the game.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.
I have a problem with it permanently adding to the work load of the game with no added gameplay.
I have a problem with it permanently adding to the work load of the game with no added gameplay.
and this, I would much rather have new content
I have a problem with it permanently adding to the work load of the game with no added gameplay.
This. If they’re going to add in another race which just adds in more work (it is that many more lines to record and that many more armor sets to create) for not much return (it won’t generate a significant increase in sales on its own), then they better do it right. Not cut any corners. So hire the voice actors. Commit to creating the same number of cultural armor pieces. Commit to giving them a story prior to when they band up with the Pact Commander’s group (and that’s not even addressing who the Pact Commander would be for characters of this race).
If the Personal Story (for a new race) is Living World story, then must one play the new race to experience the Living World story releases? If not, must the Devs create two sets of stories for the Living World releases? Or would it be ‘play whatever race you wish’ for the story? If that’s the case, how is it the new race’s Personal Story?
I find most of this argument funny. The price of adding a new race, it’s entire development, is a drop in the bucket compared to that of a new expansion— which we will be getting.
All I see is people complaining about ‘amount of work’ necessary for a new race. I’m no special snowflake— so I don’t have an issue with a nonlinear timeline. When I help a friend kill Zhaitan, my character is living in the past. I was there, I did that. I have a brain capable of including my friend in my adventure. Most people are completely overthinking new races. Introducing them to the Order of Whispers/Pact/Priory and then into the Pact wouldn’t a problem at all. A Kodan/Tengu/Quaggan/Skritt/Moa Commander? We already have Quaggan Pact Members.
When you start a level 1 human, you are starting the human in Tyria’s Past, not the Present. It would be the same thing for any new race. When I bring my Charr into Kryta, the Krytan Humans don’t address me as a “Stinking Charr”, infact they don’t talk about my race at all. Nor do the Land Stealers in Ascalon call my Human character the rightful owner of their lands. Long Live Ascalon!
Feel the Flames of Balthazar; Bask in the ever-presence of his glory!
Gilded Grimoire[MAGI]. Casual Guild www.gw2magi.com
Gilded Grimoire[MAGI]. Casual Guild www.gw2magi.com
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.
And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.
And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.
Just someone who has been supporting Anet since beta of GW1…
Proper is what we already have in game as precedent.
Go play devils advocate with someone else.
All the arguments for having a new race go into delusional statements like it’s a drop in a bucket compared to an expansion or you’re not a dev, so you don’t know it’ll take that much work at all. But however it’s implemented, it makes them have to make another new set of armor or outfit anytime they make one if the new race isn’t easy like Largos. Plus needing two new voice actors that will stick with the game, and scheduling them, and working with them in the studio.
The new voice actors initial work load is going to be massive as well. Ok. So they’re not just cheaply shoe horned into lvl 80 personal story. They don’t have to do voice acting for that massive segment. Are they also not in lws2? Are they just not an ex commander commander like the player character is right now? How do you see them in lws3? See they can’t do anything with a new race unless it’s in lvl 80 personal story through everything. Which is making the wheel again for no reason.
We already have too many races as well. Norn are being written as large humans when they have their own culture. Which may be subjective, but we like things that are fleshed out and consistent. Charr are about to lose their only character trait if they defeat the Ascalonian ghosts, and a dash of clipping for everyone with a weird body type.
So although I’m very against the massive strain a new senseless race would put on the game. I won’t be furious if they do. If they’re ok with the extra work load it’ll put on everything else in the future then they’re up for it. My suggestions for a new race if there ever is one is that it should be the Tengu, and they should have their new 1-15 zone under their racial city to the left of claw island. I’m not sure what their first boss should be, maybe an old scarlet monstrosity they use for training and showing how easy the other races can be fooled? So that’s them being the highest candidate, but their racial trait has been sitting out of the war so I still don’t think it can be done.
I find most of this argument funny. The price of adding a new race, it’s entire development, is a drop in the bucket compared to that of a new expansion— which we will be getting.
Except it’s not a “drop in the bucket” compared to the other things that could be done with the same resources.
Make a list of the things that would happen when a new race is added to this game and compare it to what needs to happen for adding a new expansion story and 1-2 living stories. Similar resource needs, but the latter has appeal for nearly everyone, while the former has a more limited appeal.
In addition, adding a new race adds to the future maintenance costs of the game (designing armor for a new race, voice acting, story telling, etc), whereas Living World stories are one-time costs.
It’s worth reminding ANet that people do like new races, but it’s a mistake to be so enthusiastic about the idea as to ignore the economic realities.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
I wonder how many people would be willing to wait 6-10 months after expansion hit to finish their personal story tho
Again people are rolling back to the delusional state in which they think race development is expensive and resource intensive during development. Do you really have so little understanding of the Development world? Or do you honestly consider Anet to be a 6 man studio of indie developers?
I honestly think HoT left the minds of the community twisted on what to expect from Anet. HoT was obviously an Engine/Game overhaul to improve gameplay which grew so massive that it had to be rolled out as an expansion. It isn’t a conventional expansion. Anet, however, can and will develop us a proper expansion. I’ve been playing the Guild Wars series since GW1 and this is what I expect of the company.
Prophecies(big)>Factions(small)>Nightfall(big)>Eye of the North(small)
Guild Wars 2(huge)>HoT(small content expansion, huge overall)>Next expansion(huge).
I’m not even arguing because I want a new race, because I wouldn’t be creating a new character for any of them unless it was the Dwarves. I am arguing about the naive nature of the community and their absolute lack of respect for Anet. Back to what I said earlier, you guys literally act like ArenaNet is an indie developer without oodles of funds to spend on whatever they wish. I don’t know if this sentiment for Anet with the community comes from the fact that they only have 200 something employees, or because the game has no subscription base— or both. Subscription base Games have player bases which demand content of a certain caliber, whereas here on Guild Wars 2 (no matter how well Anet delivers to us) the player base seems to treat the company like it’s going bankrupt and running on empty, with devs which just got out of college or were found on the street.
Feel the Flames of Balthazar; Bask in the ever-presence of his glory!
Gilded Grimoire[MAGI]. Casual Guild www.gw2magi.com
Gilded Grimoire[MAGI]. Casual Guild www.gw2magi.com
(edited by armaduras.8972)
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.
And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.
Just someone who has been supporting Anet since beta of GW1…
Proper is what we already have in game as precedent.
Go play devils advocate with someone else.
Not playing devil’s advocate. I want the devs to implement a new race and cut out extra BS that barely anyone wants while doing it.
And bravo Mr. “I’ve been with Anet since GW1” on sabotaging creative freedom.
Go play entitled customer somewhere else.
The playerbase may have their ideas from listening to the Devs speak about resources in the videos they release, the posts made on the forums, or interviews they give.
As much as they would love to do all kinds of neat things, they do state the resources are finite.
Also, I believe it’s 300 (350?)+ Devs (employees) at the Studio.
Good luck.
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.
And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.
Just someone who has been supporting Anet since beta of GW1…
Proper is what we already have in game as precedent.
Go play devils advocate with someone else.
Not playing devil’s advocate. I want the devs to implement a new race and cut out extra BS that barely anyone wants while doing it.
And bravo Mr. “I’ve been with Anet since GW1” on sabotaging creative freedom.
Go play entitled customer somewhere else.
Barely anyone? Got a link for that? No? I didn’t think so.
If anyone is acting entitled here it is you.
(edited by Moderator)
All the arguments for having a new race go into delusional statements like it’s a drop in a bucket compared to an expansion or you’re not a dev, so you don’t know it’ll take that much work at all. But however it’s implemented, it makes them have to make another new set of armor or outfit anytime they make one if the new race isn’t easy like Largos. Plus needing two new voice actors that will stick with the game, and scheduling them, and working with them in the studio.
The new voice actors initial work load is going to be massive as well. Ok. So they’re not just cheaply shoe horned into lvl 80 personal story. They don’t have to do voice acting for that massive segment. Are they also not in lws2? Are they just not an ex commander commander like the player character is right now? How do you see them in lws3? See they can’t do anything with a new race unless it’s in lvl 80 personal story through everything. Which is making the wheel again for no reason.
It mainly depends on how they’re telling the story. If, for example, the newest living story does something like introduce a different organization that has a foothold in the new area and is working toward defeating the elder dragon of the area, or something happens to dismantle the pact completely and leaves the next assault on the dragons to a smaller group of heroes to handle it, ties to the pact can still be there but written differently (different lines) for a new race.
I personally have no ties with the story telling how it currently has been told for every character in the future. I have one character who is leader of the pact and if the devs figure a way to squeeze in other possibilities, I’d applaud them rather than ridicule them for trying something different.
The problem with your argument is you’re working on the defensive. Those that suggest the story must be told with a given perspective and given outcome also remark the issues with voice acting and requiring more work on things like LS2 and 3 but if this race is released around the end of LS5 and the landscape of the story cannot be predicted, how do you figure it’s a requirement that the past LS events be voice acted when it just might be the new race cannot participate in those stories? You can then counter with “well what’s the point of leaving out PS or LS etc etc, all that content lost just makes the new race pointless” while also ignoring what you can do going forward.
As far as the whole armor/outfit issue, I’ve written many posts on the issue with the 5 races alone but no one will ever discuss possible reform for that. People would rather the devs take the path of most resistance and just bullcharge into more efforts that require exorbitant time and resources with mixed results.
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.
And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.
Just someone who has been supporting Anet since beta of GW1…
Proper is what we already have in game as precedent.
Go play devils advocate with someone else.
Not playing devil’s advocate. I want the devs to implement a new race and cut out extra BS that barely anyone wants while doing it.
And bravo Mr. “I’ve been with Anet since GW1” on sabotaging creative freedom.
Go play entitled customer somewhere else.
Barely anyone? Got a link for that? No? I didn’t think so.
If anyone is acting entitled here it is you.
Same place you get your generalized statistical proof.
I’m not acting entitled. In fact, I’ve only advocated compromise. Compromise in what efforts could be spent in voice acting, compromise in what efforts can be spent backtracking, compromise in how many areas a new race could introduce, compromise in how armor and outfits can be made, compromise in time and effort spent overall.
I can be a reasonable poster to discuss possible suggestions but you’d actually have to present yourself as reasonable, which you are not. I also don’t want to beat my points to death in a debate so I don’t tend to stick around the forums repeating myself to all arguments.
(edited by Moderator)
Again people are rolling back to the delusional state in which they think race development is expensive and resource intensive during development.
1. No one against a new race has said HoT expansion was a bad thing.
2. The definition of delusional: A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.
Or do we need to explain with hard facts that working on anything in a massive company costs massive capital?
I’m not even arguing because I want a new race, because I wouldn’t be creating a new character for any of them unless it was the Dwarves. I am arguing about the naive nature of the community and their absolute lack of respect for Anet. Back to what I said earlier, you guys literally act like ArenaNet is an indie developer without oodles of funds to spend on whatever they wish. I don’t know if this sentiment for Anet with the community comes from the fact that they only have 200 something employees, or because the game has no subscription base— or both. Subscription base Games have player bases which demand content of a certain caliber, whereas here on Guild Wars 2 (no matter how well Anet delivers to us) the player base seems to treat the company like it’s going bankrupt and running on empty, with devs which just got out of college or were found on the street.
3. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m in love with Anet right now. They gave us a schedule and they’re going above and beyond with it each time. The new maps are stunning, and the story makes you mad with what happened currently, but that could just be good writing since it conveys an emotion in the player.
4. I don’t think we’ve ever once said Anet was incapable of putting in a race. We’ve only given you arguments of how it’s a massive undertaking that creates more and more work in their pipeline even after it’s released. If you say it won’t be any extra work after it’s released, then who’s being delusional here?
5. Entitled: believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. I’m not saying anyone is, but stop using sensationalist words if you’re going to use them against someone not wanting something. Sensationalism: a type of editorial bias in mass media in which events and topics in news stories and pieces are overhyped to present biased impressions on events, which may cause a manipulation to the truth of a story.
6. Your topic sentence is you’re not arguing for a new race, because it won’t be the one you want o.o This is true for everyone and means after a new race it’ll only help create demand for another new race. So no real gameplay, just restarting a bunch if you like low level content and not getting character birthdays.
(edited by MoarChaos.8320)
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.
And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.
Just someone who has been supporting Anet since beta of GW1…
Proper is what we already have in game as precedent.
Go play devils advocate with someone else.
Not playing devil’s advocate. I want the devs to implement a new race and cut out extra BS that barely anyone wants while doing it.
And bravo Mr. “I’ve been with Anet since GW1” on sabotaging creative freedom.
Go play entitled customer somewhere else.
Barely anyone? Got a link for that? No? I didn’t think so.
If anyone is acting entitled here it is you.
Same place you get your generalized statistical proof.
I’m not acting entitled. In fact, I’ve only advocated compromise. Compromise in what efforts could be spent in voice acting, compromise in what efforts can be spent backtracking, compromise in how many areas a new race could introduce, compromise in how armor and outfits can be made, compromise in time and effort spent overall.
I can be a reasonable poster to discuss possible suggestions but you’d actually have to present yourself as reasonable, which you are not. I also don’t want to beat my points to death in a debate so I don’t tend to stick around the forums repeating myself to all arguments.
Run along then , and let the devs do THEIR job.
(edited by Moderator)
Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.
Don’t speak for everyone.
For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.
Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.
I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.
And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.
Just someone who has been supporting Anet since beta of GW1…
Proper is what we already have in game as precedent.
Go play devils advocate with someone else.
Not playing devil’s advocate. I want the devs to implement a new race and cut out extra BS that barely anyone wants while doing it.
And bravo Mr. “I’ve been with Anet since GW1” on sabotaging creative freedom.
Go play entitled customer somewhere else.
Barely anyone? Got a link for that? No? I didn’t think so.
If anyone is acting entitled here it is you. Not to mention being a little kitten.
Same place you get your generalized statistical proof.
I’m not acting entitled. In fact, I’ve only advocated compromise. Compromise in what efforts could be spent in voice acting, compromise in what efforts can be spent backtracking, compromise in how many areas a new race could introduce, compromise in how armor and outfits can be made, compromise in time and effort spent overall.
I can be a reasonable poster to discuss possible suggestions but you’d actually have to present yourself as reasonable, which you are not. I also don’t want to beat my points to death in a debate so I don’t tend to stick around the forums repeating myself to all arguments.
Run along then , and let the devs do THEIR job.
Wow. Why say something like this?
I wonder how many people would be willing to wait 6-10 months after expansion hit to finish their personal story tho
I only stated that possibility as an example. Personally, I wouldn’t have an issue with a 10-12 month wait because I’ve waited like over 3 years to finally play a Guardian or Necromancer but with the desire to make them Tengu. If a new race beside Tengu were released, I’d probably reroll my Engineer or pick one of the two (Guard or Necro) depending what is released.
But back to my point in it being an example: that was just one method of delivery I could think up off the top of my head that would be very easy and brief to explain. They could do something completely different and make a PS that was mostly text or do it via flashback or something. There are lots of avenues to tell a good story.
I wonder how many people would be willing to wait 6-10 months after expansion hit to finish their personal story tho
I only stated that possibility as an example. Personally, I wouldn’t have an issue with a 10-12 month wait because I’ve waited like over 3 years to finally play a Guardian or Necromancer but with the desire to make them Tengu. If a new race beside Tengu were released, I’d probably reroll my Engineer or pick one of the two (Guard or Necro) depending what is released.
But back to my point in it being an example: that was just one method of delivery I could think up off the top of my head that would be very easy and brief to explain. They could do something completely different and make a PS that was mostly text or do it via flashback or something. There are lots of avenues to tell a good story.
And that’s our problem. Why even have a personal story if it’s so hard to do, the only thing we can think of is cutting massive corners that we enjoy with all the other races. It’s almost always the opposite in games. The new race usually has the best story and the most quality of life to their starting missions.
I don’t think the game has any need for a new race, but I agree it should be done right if it is done. Still doesn’t change that the theoretical race isn’t making them any money and it puts a permanent tax on their pipeline.
And that’s our problem. Why even have a personal story if it’s so hard to do, the only thing we can think of is cutting massive corners that we enjoy with all the other races. It’s almost always the opposite in games. The new race usually has the best story and the most quality of life to their starting missions.
Well, what massive corners are you speaking of? Granted, I do enjoy immensely the beginnings of the PS (before it all converges into one story line) but that’s hardly all that massive.
Also, regarding other games, the difference between their new race and how well its story is tends to hinge on the quality of the races in that game overall. Most games I’ve played, the races are handled on a scale of poor to bland, so introducing a new race that they actually have a better grasp on how it should handle, that race would seem “the best” relatively speaking. So I don’t see why GW2 couldn’t do the same: make a race with a story that’s good or even better. To do that, however, you’d have to revise the delivery system. Stories now don’t have those 2-person cutscenes like the old PS so what would it be replaced with? From that point alone, you can make a new race’s PS better than the original PS.
I don’t think the game has any need for a new race, but I agree it should be done right if it is done. Still doesn’t change that the theoretical race isn’t making them any money and it puts a permanent tax on their pipeline.
Well, I could think of a theoretical way to make plenty of cash. It would require a different discussion though. Funny, I’m feeling more in the mood to debate armor in-game today. Must be the weather outside.
Revising the delivery system and how the player character interacts as a new race that doesn’t fight Zhaitan is changing a core system we already have finished. They don’t want to play with core mechanics any more since it’s hard to do, costs a lot because of needing to problem solve how to even implement it, and doesn’t show how hard it was to do in the game. Skipping voice acting that every other player character has, and any other implementation suggestions that saves costs have so far been things that shouldn’t be cut if they are going to do a new race.
I’m more in favor of a lvl 80 race as I enjoy end game the most, but that doesn’t make sense for even the most recent lws3. So they basically aren’t apart of 90% of the game. It also doesn’t market well to new players who’ve never played, to give them a new short story at character creation that’s lvl 80 mechanics. And if they scale it down, then it makes the veterans of the game who want that high difficulty content nothing to be happy about. So it ends of being a lose lose. I’m excited for a new expansion, not a new playable race.
I find most of this argument funny. The price of adding a new race, it’s entire development, is a drop in the bucket compared to that of a new expansion— which we will be getting.
All I see is people complaining about ‘amount of work’ necessary for a new race. I’m no special snowflake— so I don’t have an issue with a nonlinear timeline. When I help a friend kill Zhaitan, my character is living in the past. I was there, I did that. I have a brain capable of including my friend in my adventure. Most people are completely overthinking new races. Introducing them to the Order of Whispers/Pact/Priory and then into the Pact wouldn’t a problem at all. A Kodan/Tengu/Quaggan/Skritt/Moa Commander? We already have Quaggan Pact Members.
When you start a level 1 human, you are starting the human in Tyria’s Past, not the Present. It would be the same thing for any new race. When I bring my Charr into Kryta, the Krytan Humans don’t address me as a “Stinking Charr”, infact they don’t talk about my race at all. Nor do the Land Stealers in Ascalon call my Human character the rightful owner of their lands. Long Live Ascalon!
^ THIS!! people dont seem to comprehend this.
I find most of this argument funny. The price of adding a new race, it’s entire development, is a drop in the bucket compared to that of a new expansion— which we will be getting.
Except it’s not a “drop in the bucket” compared to the other things that could be done with the same resources.
Make a list of the things that would happen when a new race is added to this game and compare it to what needs to happen for adding a new expansion story and 1-2 living stories. Similar resource needs, but the latter has appeal for nearly everyone, while the former has a more limited appeal.
In addition, adding a new race adds to the future maintenance costs of the game (designing armor for a new race, voice acting, story telling, etc), whereas Living World stories are one-time costs.
It’s worth reminding ANet that people do like new races, but it’s a mistake to be so enthusiastic about the idea as to ignore the economic realities.
Wrong! That is not how features are created for an expansion. There is a set amount. Its not “oh no new race so let me add 10 new things to replace it”. The introduction of a new race opens doors to new cultures, armors, cities, architecture, maps, and possibilities for growth. New mechanics for an expansion wont be cut for the sake of a new race. WHAT WILL HAPPEN is that the storyline will have a main focus on race introduction, lore, and depth.