Why Do Most GW2 Players Hate Hard Content?
How about extremely hard content that that can be done in a moderate amount of time *? I don’t understand why people insist on hard content taking a long time, longer =/= harder. Kind of like a time attack or defense type mission, where you can get overloaded easily. Kind of like the gw1 beyond hardmode missions in Cantha were more challenging, but didn’t actually take long to do if you didn’t lose.
*If done with few mistakes, obviously doing badly will make it take longer.
(edited by Navzar.2938)
How about extremely hard content that that can be done in a moderate amount of time *? I don’t understand why people insist on hard content taking a long time, longer =/= harder. Kind of like a time attack or defense type mission, where you can get overloaded easily. Kind of like the gw1 beyond hardmode missions in Cantha were more challenging, but didn’t actually take long to do if you didn’t lose.
*If done with few mistakes, obviously doing badly will make it take longer.
Defend Lion’s Arch with henchmen + heroes before the nerf was pretty difficult too, and didn’t take hours. That was a ~20 minute or so mission if I remember correctly.
Just who the hell do you think I am!?
I would love content like this. Especially if I wasn’t able to beat it, so I’d have to go elsewhere and try strengthening my character before coming back to try again. It gives you more reason to play, to finally find out what’s behind that door… when you’re able to open every door and see what’s behind them all with relative ease we lose motivation to play. I love the idea that there is content out there I will never see, it makes the game world seem so much larger. This is something Bethesda understood very well when they made Morrowind, I think Anet understands it as well with regards to exploration but not with increasing difficulty as a gating mechanism.
its all im asking for the last 7 months
Fact: every Thief tells you to “l2p” when the subject is to nerf stealth.
Just like with the Halloween JP…
“Too hard, I can’t do it, I can’t finish it, remove it from game Arena Net.”
As for the length, it’s more punishing to fail 2 hours into the dungeon than 15 minutes, adds more stress and pressure.
Reading the OP a bit more just confirms what I’ve already believed: people don’t want a dungeon that’s hard for them, they want a dungeon that’s hard for other people. That way, they can lord over other people the fact that they, themselves, have completed the dungeon. As I said, you want a challenge? Go into a dungeon with level 1 gear. But I bet you won’t.
Give me unique, valuable rewards for completing dungeons with lvl 1 gear and I would spam that kitten all day.
I don’t think we should be arguing over whether or not content is "hard" or if we need "elite" dungeons. I think we should be asking for more interesting fights.
Moving from a trinity requires a different kind of boss/champion fight from most MMOs, and it needs to be something other than one-hit kills and giant amounts of health, in my opinion.
Just like with the Halloween JP…
“Too hard, I can’t do it, I can’t finish it, remove it from game Arena Net.”As for the length, it’s more punishing to fail 2 hours into the dungeon than 15 minutes, adds more stress and pressure.
I dont want to feel stress and pressure in game. I want to feel good and relaxed, because you know its my free time, why would i want to be smashing keyboards in rage?
I don’t hate hard content. I hate that every type of farming has been nerfed. DR needs to go, amongst other handicaps like it.
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I don’t think we should be arguing over whether or not content is “hard” or if we need “elite” dungeons. I think we should be asking for more interesting fights.
Moving from a trinity requires a different kind of boss/champion fight from most MMOs, and it needs to be something other than one-hit kills and giant amounts of health, in my opinion.
Encounter design is definitely an issue. I do think they are getting better at it though. They are learning to make encounters with a non trinity setup just like we are learning to play without one.
I truly miss FoW, and UW from Guild Wars 1. These instance were a bit more challenging than the rest of Guild Wars 1; and they often pushed everyone’s build to the limit. I hope that these two make their way into Guild Wars 2.
Give me unique, valuable rewards for completing dungeons with lvl 1 gear and I would spam that kitten all day.
if they added hard 12 player content it doesn’t mean that the rewards would be any better.
Wouldn’t you love to play extremely hard elite 12 player dungeon which would require 2-3+ hours to complete , which would require you to be skilled, a good player, and require immense teamplay, strategies and preparation?
To spice things up, say, this dungeon would be only open for one time in a week and to enter you would have to pay 5G.
And no waypoints/checkpoints and armor repair.Personally, I’d love this, I’d even pay arena net for a DLC including this.
As for the rewards, I wouldn’t personally care all that much, perhaps an end chest.
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The question is, why not?
> thinks game is too easy
> asks for more pve
lel
You want a weekly instance that is a big gold sink with little reward, can be played for hours at a time, has no waypoints, and requires a lot of skill, teamwork, strategy, and preparation? Good news, the game launched with WvW.
A challenge that requires 2-3 hours to play is just artificially gated and is necessarily a grind. A challenging boss can either wipe your group in 5 min or he never will. PvE is PvE.
Reading the OP a bit more just confirms what I’ve already believed: people don’t want a dungeon that’s hard for them, they want a dungeon that’s hard for other people. That way, they can lord over other people the fact that they, themselves, have completed the dungeon. As I said, you want a challenge? Go into a dungeon with level 1 gear. But I bet you won’t.
Give me unique, valuable rewards for completing dungeons with lvl 1 gear and I would spam that kitten all day.
I thought your unique and valuable reward was the hard content you seem to think the game lacks, and that you want? The thrill of the challenge, yes?
The opposition to “Elite” content in my opinion tend to make baseless assertions about how “Elite/Raid” content will be managed by Arenanet. The main argument I hear is: “Elite” content will be designed for a minority of the playerbase, and that minority consist of “Elitist”. This however is untrue, depending on how long you’ve actually been interested in GW2. You’ve probably would have played GW1, Which had many thing’s which were considered “Elite/Raid” content. Dungeon’s such as Urgoz, The Deep, Slaver’s exile and The Ebony citadel all essentially have a raid format with “Large” party grouping. I don’t think many of opposition to “Elite” content would have been GW1 players.
The opposition to “Elite” content should think of “6” thing’s before making negative judgements.
1. Why am I excluding myself from “Elite” content?
2. What exactly do the “Majority” of the playerbase want?
3. How do I determine the “Majority”
4. How is this content any different from “Elite” content in Guildwars 1.
5. Am I making baseless claim’s, because I may or may not have a unsubstantiated/previous bias towards “Raids”
6. Can me and my friends have fun in this content?
(edited by Martin The Brave.8731)
The opposition to “Elite” content in my opinion tend to make baseless assertions about how “Elite/Raid” content will be managed by Arenanet. The main argument I hear is: “Elite” content will be designed for a minority of the playerbase, and that minority consist of “Elitist”. This however is untrue, depending on how long you’ve actually been interested in GW2. You’ve probably would have played GW1, Which had many thing’s which were considered “Elite/Raid” content. Dungeon’s such as Urgoz, The Deep, Slaver’s exile and The Ebony citadel all essentially have a raid format with “Large” party grouping. I don’t think many of opposition to “Elite” content would have been GW1 players.
GW1 players also got to run all of that content alone with henchmen and heroes.
Wouldn’t you love to play extremely hard elite 12 player dungeon which would require 2-3+ hours to complete , which would require you to be skilled, a good player, and require immense teamplay, strategies and preparation?
To spice things up, say, this dungeon would be only open for one time in a week and to enter you would have to pay 5G.
And no waypoints/checkpoints and armor repair.Personally, I’d love this, I’d even pay arena net for a DLC including this.
As for the rewards, I wouldn’t personally care all that much, perhaps an end chest.
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The question is, why not?
The greater the group size, the less the personal responsibility for each player. Raiding is one of the worst things about WoW and I sure hope that nothing of the sort ever happens in GW2.
But to answer your general question, it’s because a) the rewards wouldn’t be worthwhile thus b) not even the hardcores would do it unless bored. Why develop content that tons of people are going to complain about so that only 1% or less will enjoy?
The opposition to “Elite” content in my opinion tend to make baseless assertions about how “Elite/Raid” content will be managed by Arenanet. The main argument I hear is: “Elite” content will be designed for a minority of the playerbase, and that minority consist of “Elitist”. This however is untrue, depending on how long you’ve actually been interested in GW2. You’ve probably would have played GW1, Which had many thing’s which were considered “Elite/Raid” content. Dungeon’s such as Urgoz, The Deep, Slaver’s exile and The Ebony citadel all essentially have a raid format with “Large” party grouping. I don’t think many of opposition to “Elite” content would have been GW1 players.
GW1 players also got to run all of that content alone with henchmen and heroes.
Yes we did, but the fact that they were Heroes doesn’t discredit the fact that the content was designed for a larger group. Certainly one could say, “Oh GW1 had heroes why can’t GW2 have them, you wan’t raid right? I wan’t heroes!” But this isn’t a serious rebuttal given that Gw2 is indeed a AAA Mmo while Gw1 was not. And community cohesion is a vital role for the game to strive.
Wouldn’t you love to play extremely hard elite 12 player dungeon which would require 2-3+ hours to complete , which would require you to be skilled, a good player, and require immense teamplay, strategies and preparation?
To spice things up, say, this dungeon would be only open for one time in a week and to enter you would have to pay 5G.
And no waypoints/checkpoints and armor repair.Personally, I’d love this, I’d even pay arena net for a DLC including this.
As for the rewards, I wouldn’t personally care all that much, perhaps an end chest.
/*********************************************
The question is, why not?The greater the group size, the less the personal responsibility for each player. Raiding is one of the worst things about WoW and I sure hope that nothing of the sort ever happens in GW2.
But to answer your general question, it’s because a) the rewards wouldn’t be worthwhile thus b) not even the hardcores would do it unless bored. Why develop content that tons of people are going to complain about so that only 1% or less will enjoy?
Why couldn’t the “Elite” content rewards be on par with that of Guild Mission or Fractal “Daily” rewards? Thing’s such as new ways to acquire Ascended pieces or Items skins would definitely promote more players to play this content. The fact that “Elite” content in Guildwars didn’t drop “Special Elitist” rewards should denote the idea that the playerbase is willing to do this type of content (As long as it’s fun), given the implication of the Manifesto.
Also you stated: “The greater the group size, the less the personal responsibility for each player.” Depending on the design of the “Instance” yes, you could certainly state that, but you are basing your assumption on what you experienced in “WoW” and not projects completed by Arenanet. Ofcourse the main flaw with this statement IMO is that, we can’t simply assume content will be like this, A 10 or 12 man Dungeon may very well need every member of the party to play an intricate role.
(edited by Martin The Brave.8731)
I suppose not all people have the time nor dedication to do hard or long content.
Problem rise when people expected to be rewarded for hard content. Other casuals dont’ like the idea other people can get reward which they can’t get.
Why couldn’t the “Elite” content rewards be on par with that of Guild Mission or Fractal “Daily” rewards? Thing’s such as new ways to acquire Ascended pieces or Items skins would definitely promote more players to play this content. The fact that “Elite” content in Guildwars didn’t drop “Special Elitist” rewards should denote the idea that the playerbase is willing to do this type of content (As long as it’s fun), given the implication of the Manifesto.
Also you stated: “The greater the group size, the less the personal responsibility for each player.” Depending on the design of the “Instance” yes, you could certainly state that, but you are basing your assumption on what you experienced in “WoW” and not projects completed by Arenanet. Ofcourse the main flaw with this statement IMO is that, we can’t simply assume content will be like this, A 10 or 12 man Dungeon may very well need every member of the party to play an intricate role.
If they would introduce it as the only way to get a certain ascended part it would be one of the worser things that could happen to this MMO.
Why couldn’t the “Elite” content rewards be on par with that of Guild Mission or Fractal “Daily” rewards? Thing’s such as new ways to acquire Ascended pieces or Items skins would definitely promote more players to play this content. The fact that “Elite” content in Guildwars didn’t drop “Special Elitist” rewards should denote the idea that the playerbase is willing to do this type of content (As long as it’s fun), given the implication of the Manifesto.
Also you stated: “The greater the group size, the less the personal responsibility for each player.” Depending on the design of the “Instance” yes, you could certainly state that, but you are basing your assumption on what you experienced in “WoW” and not projects completed by Arenanet. Ofcourse the main flaw with this statement IMO is that, we can’t simply assume content will be like this, A 10 or 12 man Dungeon may very well need every member of the party to play an intricate role.
If they would introduce it as the only way to get a certain ascended part it would be one of the worser things that could happen to this MMO.
Well when did I state that they would? Why couldn’t they just simply allow you to randomly get ascended rings? or amulets? Remember I stated on par with not exclusive too.
I suppose not all people have the time nor dedication to do hard or long content.
Problem rise when people expected to be rewarded for hard content. Other casuals dont’ like the idea other people can get reward which they can’t get.
That’s the problem. No one likes to put effort anymore.
In almost every game, there is a mentality that, “if you can’t get it, rant about it”.
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Don’t label all players who love hard and challenging content jerks.
Jerks are 14 year olds who think they’re tough over the internet.If I’m making a team to do content X I expect you to know how to play properly or at least to have the ability to adapt fast.
I wouldn’t call this elitism, I want competent players in my team.
For what its worth this is elitism. This is the very definition of elitism. Setting a bar and requiring that one reach it before considering them for inclusion is pretty much THE standard for the term.
I am not expressing this as a negative commentary, elitism is not inherently a bad thing (anyone who thinks that elitism is bad should ask themselves if they would rather have a surgeon who was top of his class and is considered one of the best in his field, or the guy who flunked out of medical school twice before finally managing, barely, to graduate). so please do not take offense. But, what you have described is elitism.
Don’t label all players who love hard and challenging content jerks.
Jerks are 14 year olds who think they’re tough over the internet.If I’m making a team to do content X I expect you to know how to play properly or at least to have the ability to adapt fast.
I wouldn’t call this elitism, I want competent players in my team.For what its worth this is elitism. This is the very definition of elitism. Setting a bar and requiring that one reach it before considering them for inclusion is pretty much THE standard for the term.
I am not expressing this as a negative commentary, elitism is not inherently a bad thing (anyone who thinks that elitism is bad should ask themselves if they would rather have a surgeon who was top of his class and is considered one of the best in his field, or the guy who flunked out of medical school twice before finally managing, barely, to graduate). so please do not take offense. But, what you have described is elitism.
Hope what i say makes sense…
Elitism is perfectly alright….its the way people have given the word a bad name from the way they act.
Elitism is found in every aspect of life including a video game.
A real life example is in the military…Special Forces Soldiers in the army are elite….In a video game Hardcore raiders in wow (relax people just an example) are elite to….its the actual use of the word and they way many (not all…but some) people act once they have reached that status is whats made the word almost a dirty word when in fact it is nothing of the sort…it describes people who have worked hard for towards that goal and they deserve the title…
However some let it get to their heads…and thanks to that, most any MMO community uses the word like its a curse word or taboo.
I say GW2 be allowed to have hard modes and raids. It would make the game enjoyable for many…those who dont care for it then…dont do it.
If you come across the bad kind of elitest then ignore them and move on.