(edited by Ryoki Hokishami.2756)
Why Do We Hate Rangers?
Three words: Point. Blank. Shot.
I should also mention I’m primarily a PvE player and play a lot of fractals and dungeons, where stacking both the party and the mobs is standard. I see far too many bearbow rangers that love to just hit all their skills regardless of what’s going on, and PBS just loves to knock enemies out of all of the carefully stacked AoE, or out of range of the melee classes, etc.
It’s supremely frustrating, but it’s more to do with PvE content not challenging the average Ranger to become a better player before this point in the game.
This. 1000X this. Even if rangers get everything else fixed and improved, I will still not want rangers in my groups if Point Blank Shot doesn’t get fixed.
If by “fixed” you mean: “point blank shot is no longer a knockback,” I disagree. Point blank shot is fine.
It’s funny how much everyone hates on point blank shot, but completely ignore skills like:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockback
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/LaunchAll of the skills listed in those categories are equally irritating when used improperly. (For the record, I have never once seen a mesmer use Illusionary wave properly)
Illusionary wave needs a much closer range, has a twice as long cooldown, and doesn’t knock the opponent as far as point blank shot. There is no equivalent to point blank shot in range, cooldown, and distance. It is a ridiculous skill that does not contribute to group play at all. The skill needs to be fixed.
Iwave has the same range as the original point blank shot. It also knocks back 5 targets instead of one. Gust knocks an enemy back 400 units (the same distance as a max range point blank shot), and has a range of 1200 (the same as point blank shot traited with eagle eye.)
None of them are as spammable as point blank shot, but the AoE knockbacks like Iwave and shield of absorption are far more irritating when used incorrectly. Point blank shot is a perfectly fine skill. Nerfing either the knockback or the cooldown will make the already undesirable longbow even less desirable.
Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690
-BnooMaGoo.5690
Three words: Point. Blank. Shot.
I should also mention I’m primarily a PvE player and play a lot of fractals and dungeons, where stacking both the party and the mobs is standard. I see far too many bearbow rangers that love to just hit all their skills regardless of what’s going on, and PBS just loves to knock enemies out of all of the carefully stacked AoE, or out of range of the melee classes, etc.
It’s supremely frustrating, but it’s more to do with PvE content not challenging the average Ranger to become a better player before this point in the game.
This. 1000X this. Even if rangers get everything else fixed and improved, I will still not want rangers in my groups if Point Blank Shot doesn’t get fixed.
If by “fixed” you mean: “point blank shot is no longer a knockback,” I disagree. Point blank shot is fine.
It’s funny how much everyone hates on point blank shot, but completely ignore skills like:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockback
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/LaunchAll of the skills listed in those categories are equally irritating when used improperly. (For the record, I have never once seen a mesmer use Illusionary wave properly)
Illusionary wave needs a much closer range, has a twice as long cooldown, and doesn’t knock the opponent as far as point blank shot. There is no equivalent to point blank shot in range, cooldown, and distance. It is a ridiculous skill that does not contribute to group play at all. The skill needs to be fixed.
Iwave has the same range as the original point blank shot. It also knocks back 5 targets instead of one. Gust knocks an enemy back 400 units (the same distance as a max range point blank shot), and has a range of 1200 (the same as point blank shot traited with eagle eye.)
None of them are as spammable as point blank shot, but the AoE knockbacks like Iwave and shield of absorption are far more irritating when used incorrectly. Point blank shot is a perfectly fine skill. Nerfing either the knockback or the cooldown will make the already undesirable longbow even less desirable.
Exactly, in order to compare Point Blank Shot, you have to cherry pick the situations. The problem is that while some of the other knockback skills have good range or distance (none have a good cooldown), Point Blank Shot has all of them. Point Blank Shot at its worst is still better than Gust.
Seriously? “same range as the original point blank shot”? What does that even mean? 5 targets vs 1 target doesn’t matter to groups when their target is knocked out of range. At least Iwave is useful for grouping enemies. You won’t see Iwave used as often because of its short range and high cooldown.
You may have had some experience with other classes frustrating you with their knockbacks, but Point Blank Shot is still the most complained about because of its range, distance, and spammability. Other knockbacks just aren’t as prevalent as Point Blank Shot. The longbow remains the most common weapon used by rangers and Point Blank Shot is the most annoying skill for group play. It needs to be addressed if Rangers want a role in groups.
(edited by DaShi.1368)
Not a bearbow, and have 3 80’s along with 11 other 80’s (at least one of every prof) I agree Point Blank shot is quite a nuisance as is the pet’s wonky unpredictable AI, but I wonder how many of those who dislike Rangers have been rezzed by some lame ranger’s pet. I think I’ll fill that slot with another skill in the future <smile>
7k hr, 13k AP, 16 char, all classes 80 Sadly, 3.5k hr. Ranger
Not a bearbow, and have 3 80’s along with 11 other 80’s (at least one of every prof) I agree Point Blank shot is quite a nuisance as is the pet’s wonky unpredictable AI, but I wonder how many of those who dislike Rangers have been rezzed by some lame ranger’s pet. I think I’ll fill that slot with another skill in the future <smile>
Probably about as many that have seen the rare Spotter or Frost Spirit. Despite so many people playing rangers, that trait and that skill aren’t common at all.
Three words: Point. Blank. Shot.
I should also mention I’m primarily a PvE player and play a lot of fractals and dungeons, where stacking both the party and the mobs is standard. I see far too many bearbow rangers that love to just hit all their skills regardless of what’s going on, and PBS just loves to knock enemies out of all of the carefully stacked AoE, or out of range of the melee classes, etc.
It’s supremely frustrating, but it’s more to do with PvE content not challenging the average Ranger to become a better player before this point in the game.
This. 1000X this. Even if rangers get everything else fixed and improved, I will still not want rangers in my groups if Point Blank Shot doesn’t get fixed.
If by “fixed” you mean: “point blank shot is no longer a knockback,” I disagree. Point blank shot is fine.
It’s funny how much everyone hates on point blank shot, but completely ignore skills like:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockback
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/LaunchAll of the skills listed in those categories are equally irritating when used improperly. (For the record, I have never once seen a mesmer use Illusionary wave properly)
Illusionary wave needs a much closer range, has a twice as long cooldown, and doesn’t knock the opponent as far as point blank shot. There is no equivalent to point blank shot in range, cooldown, and distance. It is a ridiculous skill that does not contribute to group play at all. The skill needs to be fixed.
Iwave has the same range as the original point blank shot. It also knocks back 5 targets instead of one. Gust knocks an enemy back 400 units (the same distance as a max range point blank shot), and has a range of 1200 (the same as point blank shot traited with eagle eye.)
None of them are as spammable as point blank shot, but the AoE knockbacks like Iwave and shield of absorption are far more irritating when used incorrectly. Point blank shot is a perfectly fine skill. Nerfing either the knockback or the cooldown will make the already undesirable longbow even less desirable.
Exactly, in order to compare Point Blank Shot, you have to cherry pick the situations. The problem is that while some of the other knockback skills have good range or distance (none have a good cooldown), Point Blank Shot has all of them. Point Blank Shot at its worst is still better than Gust.
Seriously? “same range as the original point blank shot”? What does that even mean? 5 targets vs 1 target doesn’t matter to groups when their target is knocked out of range. At least Iwave is useful for grouping enemies. You won’t see Iwave used as often because of its short range and high cooldown.
You may have had some experience with other classes frustrating you with their knockbacks, but Point Blank Shot is still the most complained about because of its range, distance, and spammability. Other knockbacks just aren’t as prevalent as Point Blank Shot. The longbow remains the most common weapon used by rangers and Point Blank Shot is the most annoying skill for group play. It needs to be addressed if Rangers want a role in groups.
Iwave is 600 range, point blank shot was 600 range before being buffed to 900 range. And if you’ve nothing bad to say about Iwave, then you’ve never played in the same group as some of the mesmers I’ve had the unfortunate pleasure of encountering. Mesmers in lane 5 of the marionette were especially fun. Nothing like hitting the boss with an Iwave and pushing all of its copies everywhere.
Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690
-BnooMaGoo.5690
I’ve bearbowed in a dungeon and lived to tell the tale, although it was a long time ago now (picked the party up off the floor a few times). Yet whilst I understood bear wasn’t appropriate in the dungeon, I’d argue the bow has its place, just not necessarily with PBS. So I changed my ways to include the sword and different, more appropriate pets. But what bugged me most in the end was the pet: if I have to have it passive at my side so it doesn’t go all kamikaze, then I’m not contributing 100%, regardless of what weapon I want to use. This is dumb. This is also not the player’s fault: it’s an inherent design flaw. We should have the ability to stow our dumb furball/scaleballs/featherballs/ickyfartoomanylegsandeyesballs and retain full DPS. That in itself would go a long way to fix ranger woes.
So I changed my main from the ranger to a mesmer, and life’s kinder now (even though clones can suffer from playing with the AI Idiot Ball too).
Still, "badness" isn’t limited to rangers. I enjoyed this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1ws3to/whats_your_professions_bearbow_equivalent/
“Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Steve R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn.”
People are playing rangers exactly like other games.
That is the true problem. Honestly , Even look at the ranger description and you realize it’s almost false advertisement.
Melee has far to much advantage in terms of DPS over ranged in this game. The risk of being in melee in GW2 is FAR FAR FAR FAR lower then in any other game on the market yet the penalty in dps ranged receives is MUCH MUCH MUCH more then I have seen in most games as well.
A ranger atm is just another melee class and that’s a large portion of where the problem lies.
People are playing it as something it was advertised to be but not designed to be.
Azreell – Mesmer
Loyalty To None
Loyalty To None
useless pets hurt dps
Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE
Rangers are hated in PvE and WvW (they are fine in sPvP since elementalists are far far far worse than any kind of rangers in that game type):
- Because the worst class among all classes due to its mechanics.
- Because there are other classes that can much more helpful to any group/zerg than rangers in terms of damage and healing and buffing.
- Because the amount of noobs that play rangers is over 9000
- Because when you type “Rangers suck” in mapchat, reading that funny arguments of rangers is fun =)Also, my hate list is 1) Guests 2) Ranger Guests 3) Rangers.
I can see you have no bias.
One little thing to maybe curb that for you (or any Ranger hater)…..start one and play it from 0-80. You may find yourself changing your viewpoints (or at least being able to validate them from experience). This would be the GW2 version of “walking in the others moccasins before you judge”.
Three words: Point. Blank. Shot.
I should also mention I’m primarily a PvE player and play a lot of fractals and dungeons, where stacking both the party and the mobs is standard. I see far too many bearbow rangers that love to just hit all their skills regardless of what’s going on, and PBS just loves to knock enemies out of all of the carefully stacked AoE, or out of range of the melee classes, etc.
It’s supremely frustrating, but it’s more to do with PvE content not challenging the average Ranger to become a better player before this point in the game.
This. 1000X this. Even if rangers get everything else fixed and improved, I will still not want rangers in my groups if Point Blank Shot doesn’t get fixed.
If by “fixed” you mean: “point blank shot is no longer a knockback,” I disagree. Point blank shot is fine.
It’s funny how much everyone hates on point blank shot, but completely ignore skills like:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockback
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/LaunchAll of the skills listed in those categories are equally irritating when used improperly. (For the record, I have never once seen a mesmer use Illusionary wave properly)
Illusionary wave needs a much closer range, has a twice as long cooldown, and doesn’t knock the opponent as far as point blank shot. There is no equivalent to point blank shot in range, cooldown, and distance. It is a ridiculous skill that does not contribute to group play at all. The skill needs to be fixed.
Iwave has the same range as the original point blank shot. It also knocks back 5 targets instead of one. Gust knocks an enemy back 400 units (the same distance as a max range point blank shot), and has a range of 1200 (the same as point blank shot traited with eagle eye.)
None of them are as spammable as point blank shot, but the AoE knockbacks like Iwave and shield of absorption are far more irritating when used incorrectly. Point blank shot is a perfectly fine skill. Nerfing either the knockback or the cooldown will make the already undesirable longbow even less desirable.
Exactly, in order to compare Point Blank Shot, you have to cherry pick the situations. The problem is that while some of the other knockback skills have good range or distance (none have a good cooldown), Point Blank Shot has all of them. Point Blank Shot at its worst is still better than Gust.
Seriously? “same range as the original point blank shot”? What does that even mean? 5 targets vs 1 target doesn’t matter to groups when their target is knocked out of range. At least Iwave is useful for grouping enemies. You won’t see Iwave used as often because of its short range and high cooldown.
You may have had some experience with other classes frustrating you with their knockbacks, but Point Blank Shot is still the most complained about because of its range, distance, and spammability. Other knockbacks just aren’t as prevalent as Point Blank Shot. The longbow remains the most common weapon used by rangers and Point Blank Shot is the most annoying skill for group play. It needs to be addressed if Rangers want a role in groups.
Iwave is 600 range, point blank shot was 600 range before being buffed to 900 range. And if you’ve nothing bad to say about Iwave, then you’ve never played in the same group as some of the mesmers I’ve had the unfortunate pleasure of encountering. Mesmers in lane 5 of the marionette were especially fun. Nothing like hitting the boss with an Iwave and pushing all of its copies everywhere.
Congrats. You now understand the feeling that the rest of us have with Rangers. Only we have it all the time with shorter breaks between annoying knockbacks, longer distances knocked back, and from ranges as far back as 1200.
You may have had some experience with other classes frustrating you with their knockbacks, but Point Blank Shot is still the most complained about because of its range, distance, and spammability. No other knockback compares. In addition, other knockbacks just aren’t as prevalent as Point Blank Shot. The longbow remains the most common weapon used by rangers and Point Blank Shot is the most annoying skill for group play. It needs to be addressed if Rangers want a role in groups.
(edited by DaShi.1368)
I don’t know about you.
I hate rangers because I main one.
Hating on rangers is just the cool thing to do right now. Most people just say they hate rangers, even though many know nothing about the class :P
For me, I hated Rangers before GW2 was even released. In every game I’ve played, Ranger has been the stupid annoying profession that has a much easier time in both PvE and PvP than the other classes. Presumptuous of me? Yeah. But hey I didn’t claim to be the poster-child for logic or reason. That is where a part of my hatred for Rangers comes from. After seeing how they perform in GW2 though, and how it’s not really the case here, I have cut them a little slack. I don’t care what classes join my dungeons or PvP teams tbh… I only play both at a casual level and they are both completely and utterly irrelevant/inconsequential to progressing in the game so it doesn’t matter if we shave 2 minutes off the 15 it takes to do the dungeon, or lose in PvP.
It does still greatly irritate me when I’m being shot at by a Ranger, though. The stupid noise of their arrows, the stupid pet biting at me while the Ranger +back’s away from me like a wimp. It’s cowardly play, the same as Mesmers with their infinite clones, and Thieves with their stealth. It’s OK if some slimeball wants to pop in here and tell me to learn to play btw, I don’t mind this, just saying that I find these skills annoying.
So I find the Ranger profession annoying to fight against, and I found it very boring to play too, but I don’t hold a grudge so much that I scrutinize, or ostracise them from my groups. Everyone is welcome.
“meta” this, “meta” that. Please stop saying the word “meta”.
most people who are raging over rangers usually they don’t know how to play a ranger.also open world rangers tends to not know how to play rangers cause with the pet is an easy mode.those are changing in dungeon/wvw/spvp situations
i’m a poor and lonesome ranger.
Mogrey Norn Ranger [DS]
Mogrey Norn Ranger [DS]
Rangers are hated in PvE and WvW (they are fine in sPvP since elementalists are far far far worse than any kind of rangers in that game type):
- Because the worst class among all classes due to its mechanics.
- Because there are other classes that can much more helpful to any group/zerg than rangers in terms of damage and healing and buffing.
- Because the amount of noobs that play rangers is over 9000
- Because when you type “Rangers suck” in mapchat, reading that funny arguments of rangers is fun =)Also, my hate list is 1) Guests 2) Ranger Guests 3) Rangers.
I can see you have no bias.
One little thing to maybe curb that for you (or any Ranger hater)…..start one and play it from 0-80. You may find yourself changing your viewpoints (or at least being able to validate them from experience). This would be the GW2 version of “walking in the others moccasins before you judge”.
lulwut? Pretty sure experiencing pet shortcomings and no power burst firsthand isn’t going to change anyone’s uninformed perceptions of the class.
Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…
Anybody who’s already decided rangers suck unconditionally isn’t going to change their minds on anyone else’s say-so. Kind of funny that rangers are often seen on recent speedrun/speed record teams though.
As to why the ranger hate, Danikat’s post on the first page is right on. +1
I was directing the bias concerning the “hate list”
And when someone walks in my shoes they can tell me how worthless my class is……Ironically I have people ask me to join them.
I personally consider myself average and learning….as I strive for daily. Close your mind and you close your life.
Reasons i hate my ranger; low dps, (lately) being unable to dodge as many aoes as i used to, with the endurance nerf, and dueling.
Reasons i love my ranger; using pet for pulling, 1500 range semi-safety from many bosses (and some safe spots that range opens up that no other class can use to afk 1 spam a boss to death), using pets to distract enemies from my party, using lots of fields & traps to spam conditions or support my party, and a good amount of ranged skills that can deal dps while kiting.
I’ve had to realize that, I won’t be dong alot of dmg to enemies as a ranger, and I turned my focus over to supporting the party. When i’m with a dungeon party, I keep everyone’s hps up, conditions cleansed. On a boss fight where everyone might die, but I can find a spot to ‘bug’ at 1500 range and hit safely forever, i’ll do it to guarantee a win. Being the last one alive and finishing off a fight feels amazing. (this comes at the cost of ignoring your wanting to rush in and res ppl, as it would ruin your safe spot).
In a pvp situation, I can use my spirits to support the zerg on the outskirts, and tag enemies, res allies, finish enemies. Because of stat nerfs for us to keep our pets, I can’t stand very well with the commander and take the aoe hits, and wind up on the outskirts just hitting targets of opportunity. When trapper builds were more viable, I could take a pvt set and wreak some havoc in the middle of the enemy zerg, then escape.
I have 7 other 80’s, but i play my ranger the most. Warrior and guardian have their problems with melee range and having to take all those hits. Ele dies if its even touched, gl stacking. Necro is so dependant on condition dmg that if any others take it, you’re screwed.
Ranger is a middle of the line class that has to be played diversely, help team out, spread some conditions, and be a solid dps (maybe 65% of what a warrior can do…but what ELSE can a warrior do?)
The way to overcome ppl’s prejudices is to talk to bearbow rangers you see, suggest they try out a melee weapon for awhile, tell them about how supportive a ranger can be to the party, and giving a bad ranger a kick in the kitten out of your party can be a good incentive to go try those things and expand their skillset. ^ But you gotta try first, and try to educate, or nothing happens.
Ranger main, no matter what nerf bat they hit us with!
SF guild on Jade Quarry.
Fav pet; Reef Drake
SF guild on Jade Quarry.
Fav pet; Reef Drake
Knockback abilities of any kind need not be “fixed”-they work as intended. That wouldn’t “fix” the Ranger for groups, as it’s a community issue (Profession bias), not a gameplay one. Point blank shot wasn’t designed to push back enemies off your group’s stack, and there’s way more to this game than Dungeon runs.
Same old thought that creeps into most threads: “my needs or those of my peers come before those of every other gamer and/or game format.” It is not only about us or our preferences. ANet won’t fix that which isn’t broken, and that ability has nothing wrong going for it, and it is up to each player to decide when or not to use their different weapon, heal, utility, and elite skills.
Reasons i hate my ranger; low dps, (lately) being unable to dodge as many aoes as i used to, with the endurance nerf, and dueling.
You should try a sword/dagger bunker ranger build for dueling. It’s extremely effective.
I personally don’t hate ranger, I play one when I feel like it, and I’ve never been one of those “No ranger/necro/engi” in LFG. But what I can say about this is: the reason why they are hated is that most (not all) of the ranger players run horrible builds and use little to no brain. Too many of them go “I like bows, I play ranger to play ranged.” and wouldn’t switch to a melee weapon not even under torture, despite in too many occasions bows are few more than completely useless and unfitting. Too many ranger pick pets according to their liking, for their look not their dps and skills. Speaking honestly now…how many times it happens to run a dungeon (with stacking in corners) and see rangers using a longbow at 0 range despite longbow’s damage depends on the range? With me, it happened too many times. How many times you see rangers in AC shooting arrows at burrows? Too many.
Sadly, in this game range is never as good as melee. Not players’ fault. I’d kick a warrior/guardian/ele ANY TIME to allow a sword-horn, melee only, zerker, traited with spotter, using Frost Spirit ranger because this brings lots of good things to a team. There is no point in seeing that bearbow ranger attacking a mob and being the last one standing, dealing barely any decent damage and simply dying as soon as the melee team is dealt with by the enemy.
What makes Necros and Rangers less loved is that too many people don’t play them in the best way, but the worst way. I hate to be so mean, but it is true. Just like you don’t want to see a shout-heal, 0 damage cleric warrior.
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O°v°O
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I personally don’t hate ranger, I play one when I feel like it, and I’ve never been one of those “No ranger/necro/engi” in LFG. But what I can say about this is: the reason why they are hated is that most (not all) of the ranger players run horrible builds and use little to no brain. Too many of them go “I like bows, I play ranger to play ranged.” and wouldn’t switch to a melee weapon not even under torture, despite in too many occasions bows are few more than completely useless and unfitting. Too many ranger pick pets according to their liking, for their look not their dps and skills. Speaking honestly now…how many times it happens to run a dungeon (with stacking in corners) and see rangers using a longbow at 0 range despite longbow’s damage depends on the range? With me, it happened too many times. How many times you see rangers in AC shooting arrows at burrows? Too many.
Sadly, in this game range is never as good as melee. Not players’ fault. I’d kick a warrior/guardian/ele ANY TIME to allow a sword-horn, melee only, zerker, traited with spotter, using Frost Spirit ranger because this brings lots of good things to a team. There is no point in seeing that bearbow ranger attacking a mob and being the last one standing, dealing barely any decent damage and simply dying as soon as the melee team is dealt with by the enemy.
What makes Necros and Rangers less loved is that too many people don’t play them in the best way, but the worst way. I hate to be so mean, but it is true. Just like you don’t want to see a shout-heal, 0 damage cleric warrior.
If you really hated sounding mean, you would have avoided wording it in the above manner in the first place. I don’t use shout heal Warrior’s in Cleric’s, but who are you to decide how they should play? (The “zero damage” is downright insulting-why not say “low damage” instead, which is the correct wording?) Why have shout heals as a player option that nobody should use anyway just to appease a meta niche (same with gear options, etc.)?
Of course a Ranger is more effective at Melee, but your options seem limited to a min/maxing meta. Just Sword/Horn works? I use them but there are other options too.
In short, feel totally welcome to fully embrace the meta (why not? play how you want too), but don’t shove it down other people’s throats. Some people find ways to be effective without necessarily adhering to every little meta build and video out there (and no meta would exist without players experimenting in the first place.)
There should be a middle-ground tutorial somewhere that helps newer players with Rangers, without forcing to play them one way or the other. That melee is great for Ranger, Ranger has nothing to do with “range” or “ranged weapons”, but that also bows have their place, etc.
It’s not personal, nor is it business, just felt that the “there’s only one way to play a Ranger” was an exaggeration. Of course you shouldn’t use Longbow at melee range, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t ANY other options to play a Ranger effectively other than the meta ones you mentioned. Meta is OK-insulting others for not following isn’t. Notice how you said “people play them in the worst way, not the best way”-you don’t allow anything in between (plus I BET that you don’t know “people” as well as you think, and are just generalizing based on bad personal experiences.)
The only times I’ve seen someone use Longbow at short range the player was very new to the Ranger or the game (usually the latter). Most Rangers I’ve pugged with are good ones. The “Rangers using Spotter/Frost Spirit are rare” statement is but a myth, or perhaps just bad luck for them (plus probably they reject them all the time, not even giving them a chance to even test their mettle?)
(edited by Star Ace.5207)
I hate my ranger because he killed my puppy.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
I do admit I sounded quite mean and did not express some things clearly nor properly.
I know there are other options but when something is way superior and makes things easier and better for everyone with you, it is claimed. If ignorant people saw how much good rangers can bring to their team, they would no longer ask for warriors only to fill.
Besides:
1 I only answered the question brought up. Like it or not, that’t the reason why rangers are unwanted. Everyone is free to play anything, I myself have a friend running shout-heals and I run dungeons with her anyway. I am speaking of less appreciated, not useless. People want speedruns, whether they specify it or not, and anything which makes their speedrun less effective is not welcome.
2 I am generalizing because no one can know everyone , but if in 9/10 of the times I get rangers who behave that way, I take it as an average behavior. (I as general) You are shouting at me because I pointed out things. Those are only the reason why if I myself join a team for a dungeon with my ranger I am asked: “don’t you have something better than ranger?”not even waiting to see me and know how I play. Because they think I MUST be a ranged-when-not-appropriate ranger to their eyes.
Play how you want is right, but when you run a dungeon there is another factor that needs to be considered: you must bring some good to your team. You must change your skills, weapons and playstyle according to the thing you are to do. You are a shout-heal? Fine, but when you are in situations like you are the only warrior in a team and you don’t switch one shout into a banner of discipline you are not justified anymore.
I ran a CoE p3 just tonight. I brought my mesmer because I love to play him and want to use him. With me: 1 shout heal war, 1 tank war, 1 AH guard, 1 condition necro. Damage extremely low which brought to wipes. Did one of the warriors even thought to use one banner to increase team’s dps? No. Did guard consider to switch from mace to gs? No. Result? I had to switch on my zerk warrior, bring BoD, BoS and elite banner to truly carry the team to the end (I had to solo Alpha from half hp in 2 encounters) . I doubt we would have make it within the hour if I had not sacrificed my amusement and will to play my mesmer for the sake of the team.
In brief. You are free to play what you like as long as you can do some smart sacrifices for a higher good. Otherwise, accept the will of the others who do not wish to play with someone like you.
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O°v°O
I do admit I sounded quite mean and did not express some things clearly nor properly.
I know there are other options but when something is way superior and makes things easier and better for everyone with you, it is claimed. If ignorant people saw how much good rangers can bring to their team, they would no longer ask for warriors only to fill.
Besides:
1 I only answered the question brought up. Like it or not, that’t the reason why rangers are unwanted. Everyone is free to play anything, I myself have a friend running shout-heals and I run dungeons with her anyway. I am speaking of less appreciated, not useless. People want speedruns, whether they specify it or not, and anything which makes their speedrun less effective is not welcome.
2 I am generalizing because no one can know everyone , but if in 9/10 of the times I get rangers who behave that way, I take it as an average behavior. (I as general) You are shouting at me because I pointed out things. Those are only the reason why if I myself join a team for a dungeon with my ranger I am asked: “don’t you have something better than ranger?”not even waiting to see me and know how I play. Because they think I MUST be a ranged-when-not-appropriate ranger to their eyes.
Play how you want is right, but when you run a dungeon there is another factor that needs to be considered: you must bring some good to your team. You must change your skills, weapons and playstyle according to the thing you are to do. You are a shout-heal? Fine, but when you are in situations like you are the only warrior in a team and you don’t switch one shout into a banner of discipline you are not justified anymore.
I ran a CoE p3 just tonight. I brought my mesmer because I love to play him and want to use him. With me: 1 shout heal war, 1 tank war, 1 AH guard, 1 condition necro. Damage extremely low which brought to wipes. Did one of the warriors even thought to use one banner to increase team’s dps? No. Did guard consider to switch from mace to gs? No. Result? I had to switch on my zerk warrior, bring BoD, BoS and elite banner to truly carry the team to the end (I had to solo Alpha from half hp in 2 encounters) . I doubt we would have make it within the hour if I had not sacrificed my amusement and will to play my mesmer for the sake of the team.
In brief. You are free to play what you like as long as you can do some smart sacrifices for a higher good. Otherwise, accept the will of the others who do not wish to play with someone like you.
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O°v°O
O°v°O
Said many things…..
This is the way it is like it or not. We have told you why people hate rangers. You can sit here and argue the community that is your right. You can play the devils advocate in saying people are allowed to play how they want regardless if it is effective or even good.
Fact remains you are free to choose whatever you want just as rangers are free to choose whatever they want. BUT guess what everyone else is free to kick you from parties and tell you to go get on another class. And everyone else is also free to tell you why rangers are hated, regardless if you accept what they say or not.
Too many people in this thread has said the same thing as me maybe not in those words to continue to deny reality. Again that is your choice. Just don’t be upset when we choose not to let rangers join us in parties. And then when we ask rangers to run optimal builds and they refuse that is their choice we have no problem inviting someone else who will change their build.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Said many things…..
This is the way it is like it or not. We have told you why people hate rangers. You can sit here and argue the community that is your right. You can play the devils advocate in saying people are allowed to play how they want regardless if it is effective or even good.
Fact remains you are free to choose whatever you want just as rangers are free to choose whatever they want. BUT guess what everyone else is free to kick you from parties and tell you to go get on another class. And everyone else is also free to tell you why rangers are hated, regardless if you accept what they say or not.
Too many people in this thread has said the same thing as me maybe not in those words to continue to deny reality. Again that is your choice. Just don’t be upset when we choose not to let rangers join us in parties. And then when we ask rangers to run optimal builds and they refuse that is their choice we have no problem inviting someone else who will change their build.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us because we’re a warrior and we are the best class.”
Just pointing out that your sig basically explains why you’re ok with this hate. Also, I think it’s alright to be upset when people choose not to bring a single class because of misdirected bias. If you had it happen to you, you would understand.
(edited by Ryoki Hokishami.2756)
Said many things…..
This is the way it is like it or not. We have told you why people hate rangers. You can sit here and argue the community that is your right. You can play the devils advocate in saying people are allowed to play how they want regardless if it is effective or even good.
Fact remains you are free to choose whatever you want just as rangers are free to choose whatever they want. BUT guess what everyone else is free to kick you from parties and tell you to go get on another class. And everyone else is also free to tell you why rangers are hated, regardless if you accept what they say or not.
Too many people in this thread has said the same thing as me maybe not in those words to continue to deny reality. Again that is your choice. Just don’t be upset when we choose not to let rangers join us in parties. And then when we ask rangers to run optimal builds and they refuse that is their choice we have no problem inviting someone else who will change their build.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us because we’re a warrior and we are the best class.”
So the guy who loves his war dislikes rangers? Huh.
No, read his post. He dislikes rangers who play like morons. People want maximum dps in a dungeon group. Melee is maximum dps and always will be. This isn’t the game to be a pewpew archer and people are perfectly justified to look down on those who choose to play that way and not let them into their groups.
Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…
Said many things…..
This is the way it is like it or not. We have told you why people hate rangers. You can sit here and argue the community that is your right. You can play the devils advocate in saying people are allowed to play how they want regardless if it is effective or even good.
Fact remains you are free to choose whatever you want just as rangers are free to choose whatever they want. BUT guess what everyone else is free to kick you from parties and tell you to go get on another class. And everyone else is also free to tell you why rangers are hated, regardless if you accept what they say or not.
Too many people in this thread has said the same thing as me maybe not in those words to continue to deny reality. Again that is your choice. Just don’t be upset when we choose not to let rangers join us in parties. And then when we ask rangers to run optimal builds and they refuse that is their choice we have no problem inviting someone else who will change their build.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us because we’re a warrior and we are the best class.”
Just pointing out that your sig basically explains why you’re ok with this hate. Also, I think it’s alright to be upset when people choose not to bring a single class because of misdirected bias. If you had it happen to you, you would understand.
My sig is a quote from another player named Eugene. Your reply basically explains all the problems we have on the forum.
Rangers…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4pqsGYkLWg
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Said many things…..
This is the way it is like it or not. We have told you why people hate rangers. You can sit here and argue the community that is your right. You can play the devils advocate in saying people are allowed to play how they want regardless if it is effective or even good.
Fact remains you are free to choose whatever you want just as rangers are free to choose whatever they want. BUT guess what everyone else is free to kick you from parties and tell you to go get on another class. And everyone else is also free to tell you why rangers are hated, regardless if you accept what they say or not.
Too many people in this thread has said the same thing as me maybe not in those words to continue to deny reality. Again that is your choice. Just don’t be upset when we choose not to let rangers join us in parties. And then when we ask rangers to run optimal builds and they refuse that is their choice we have no problem inviting someone else who will change their build.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us because we’re a warrior and we are the best class.”
So the guy who loves his war dislikes rangers? Huh.
No, read his post. He dislikes rangers who play like morons. People want maximum dps in a dungeon group. Melee is maximum dps and always will be. This isn’t the game to be a pewpew archer and people are perfectly justified to look down on those who choose to play that way and not let them into their groups.
Some elitist people want maximum DPS in a dungeon group. I play a melee ranger, it’s clearly the way to go, but it should never be acceptable to just insta-kick people, not matter how you try to justify it.
Basically it boils down to whether you’re playing this game as a hobby or a pseudo-lifestyle. I play it to have fun. I don’t care if someone in my dungeon group is sub-optimal. I don’t really care if i’m suboptimal. I don’t really understand WHY it matters to so many people. Speed-clearing in this game is not like GW1. This game it’s just “doing damage slightly faster.” If someone’s gonna use a LB, I don’t care, as long as they don’t AFK/Leave/die a billion times.
Also, your sig quote is not immediately obvious that it’s used sarcastically. And I try to avoid the Ranger forum because of all the self-loathing that tends to happen. Sometimes, I just have to reply though.
You should never be ok with people disliking you immediately, though. It doesn’t matter what the current mindset is, that doesn’t make it right.
The title of this topic itself is essentially toxic, and doesn’t help anything, regardless what is posted in here.
(edited by Ryoki Hokishami.2756)
I play it to have fun.
I think most people actually play the game to have fun. Even the people asking for optimal builds in their dungeon runs.
I don’t care if someone in my dungeon group is sub-optimal. I don’t really care if i’m suboptimal.
Personally, I respect your opinion and your requirements or non-requirements for your own dungeon run. However, I think it important to realize that each and every person’s opinion is just as valid as the next person’s. So while you might not care, someone else might.
Personally, I think it is the right of the person forming the group to set the standards that people should meet if they would like to join the party.
I don’t really understand WHY it matters to so many people.
And that’s fine, you don’t have to understand why… just understand that some people find it important to them.
I think we’d have a lot less conflict if people who formed parties really took the time to write out their comments, and people who seek to join parties would read the comments and not hope and pray that the party they join doesn’t notice that they don’t meet the requirements. But people will be people.
Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle
I play it to have fun.
I think most people actually play the game to have fun. Even the people asking for optimal builds in their dungeon runs.
I don’t care if someone in my dungeon group is sub-optimal. I don’t really care if i’m suboptimal.
Personally, I respect your opinion and your requirements or non-requirements for your own dungeon run. However, I think it important to realize that each and every person’s opinion is just as valid as the next person’s. So while you might not care, someone else might.
Personally, I think it is the right of the person forming the group to set the standards that people should meet if they would like to join the party.
I don’t really understand WHY it matters to so many people.
And that’s fine, you don’t have to understand why… just understand that some people find it important to them.
I think we’d have a lot less conflict if people who formed parties really took the time to write out their comments, and people who seek to join parties would read the comments and not hope and pray that the party they join doesn’t notice that they don’t meet the requirements. But people will be people.
I can respect what you’re saying there. I probably misplaced my anger there. My problem isn’t so much looking for a dungeon party. It’s when people tell me my class is garbage OUTSIDE of those situations. Some people (keep in mind, it’s only a few) aggressively hate rangers in all cases, and have no problem saying it to the player’s face, even if they didn’t start any argument.
Like an example would be where a player would ask for help with stats in map chat, or something of the like, then as soon as they say “I’m a ranger”, map chat will suddenly have people going “lol, rangers” or like “delete your character”, things that I’m used to, but are still annoying, but to new players could easily be considered abusive conduct. I’ve seen this happen. I’m not just making a hypothetical situation.
I guess my new point is: you don’t want a ranger in your group for a speed clear? That’s fine. Your choice/ the group’s choice. But why the heck do people have to chew people out for playing what’s fun when it’s literally none of their business?
I play it to have fun.
I think most people actually play the game to have fun. Even the people asking for optimal builds in their dungeon runs.
I don’t care if someone in my dungeon group is sub-optimal. I don’t really care if i’m suboptimal.
Personally, I respect your opinion and your requirements or non-requirements for your own dungeon run. However, I think it important to realize that each and every person’s opinion is just as valid as the next person’s. So while you might not care, someone else might.
Personally, I think it is the right of the person forming the group to set the standards that people should meet if they would like to join the party.
I don’t really understand WHY it matters to so many people.
And that’s fine, you don’t have to understand why… just understand that some people find it important to them.
I think we’d have a lot less conflict if people who formed parties really took the time to write out their comments, and people who seek to join parties would read the comments and not hope and pray that the party they join doesn’t notice that they don’t meet the requirements. But people will be people.
I can respect what you’re saying there. I probably misplaced my anger there. My problem isn’t so much looking for a dungeon party. It’s when people tell me my class is garbage OUTSIDE of those situations. Some people (keep in mind, it’s only a few) aggressively hate rangers in all cases, and have no problem saying it to the player’s face, even if they didn’t start any argument.
Like an example would be where a player would ask for help with stats in map chat, or something of the like, then as soon as they say “I’m a ranger”, map chat will suddenly have people going “lol, rangers” or like “delete your character”, things that I’m used to, but are still annoying, but to new players could easily be considered abusive conduct. I’ve seen this happen. I’m not just making a hypothetical situation.
I guess my new point is: you don’t want a ranger in your group for a speed clear? That’s fine. Your choice/ the group’s choice. But why the heck do people have to chew people out for playing what’s fun when it’s literally none of their business?
I never said I hated rangers. I think that is wrong to hate someone just because of the class they play. Everyone is free to look at my post history in this thread. What I do dislike is a subset of rangers not all rangers. You can go back in my post history and see which subset I hate. Mainly the bear bow rangers.
The ranger community as a whole unlike other professions community has strait up coddled the bear bow rangers. Because at one time a large portion of the ranger community were bear bow rangers. Or people that thought just becasue ranger can use a ranged weapon than it must be a ranged class and pretty much refused to use any melee. While every other profession has both ranged and melee options. I never see eles saying I am a mage why should I use a lighting hammer? See that is my point.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Said many things…..
This is the way it is like it or not. We have told you why people hate rangers. You can sit here and argue the community that is your right. You can play the devils advocate in saying people are allowed to play how they want regardless if it is effective or even good.
Fact remains you are free to choose whatever you want just as rangers are free to choose whatever they want. BUT guess what everyone else is free to kick you from parties and tell you to go get on another class. And everyone else is also free to tell you why rangers are hated, regardless if you accept what they say or not.
Too many people in this thread has said the same thing as me maybe not in those words to continue to deny reality. Again that is your choice. Just don’t be upset when we choose not to let rangers join us in parties. And then when we ask rangers to run optimal builds and they refuse that is their choice we have no problem inviting someone else who will change their build.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us because we’re a warrior and we are the best class.”
So the guy who loves his war dislikes rangers? Huh.
No, read his post. He dislikes rangers who play like morons. People want maximum dps in a dungeon group. Melee is maximum dps and always will be. This isn’t the game to be a pewpew archer and people are perfectly justified to look down on those who choose to play that way and not let them into their groups.
Some elitist people want maximum DPS in a dungeon group. I play a melee ranger, it’s clearly the way to go, but it should never be acceptable to just insta-kick people, not matter how you try to justify it.
Basically it boils down to whether you’re playing this game as a hobby or a pseudo-lifestyle. I play it to have fun. I don’t care if someone in my dungeon group is sub-optimal. I don’t really care if i’m suboptimal. I don’t really understand WHY it matters to so many people. Speed-clearing in this game is not like GW1. This game it’s just “doing damage slightly faster.” If someone’s gonna use a LB, I don’t care, as long as they don’t AFK/Leave/die a billion times.
Also, your sig quote is not immediately obvious that it’s used sarcastically. And I try to avoid the Ranger forum because of all the self-loathing that tends to happen. Sometimes, I just have to reply though.
You should never be ok with people disliking you immediately, though. It doesn’t matter what the current mindset is, that doesn’t make it right.
The title of this topic itself is essentially toxic, and doesn’t help anything, regardless what is posted in here.
And that’s your choice and right to not care just as much as it’s their choice and right to care. That is a right they reserve when they choose to form the party and be the one who decides who gets to join.
For someone who is hung up on people trying to dictate how others play, you seem to have very rigid ideas of how others should be able to comp their groups.
And maybe they aren’t no lifers that you make them out to be? Maybe they are family (wo)men who have a very limited time each night to spend on dungeon grinding and can’t afford to waste it on a much longer than usual crawl because their teammates are bringing suboptimal builds when there is nothing stopping them from doing so. For every person who has the right to a “fun” personal experience, there are 4 others on your team who are entitled to a fun group experience. That’s what it means to play a group game.
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This is for all Rangers out there:
1.Please, use 20/0/0/10/0 as a core to your PvE build. Spotter and traited Frost Spirit is all you need to bring. From there, you can build how ever you like (preferably zerker and full dmg build). If all Rangers would use this as the core of their build, it would make us all look better in pugs.
2.Lose the bear and the longbow. Take cats and if you really must take ranged, use shortbow. It out-dps’ the longbow at “Spotter range”, which is the range where your allies get the Spotter buff (note: I haven’t tested the damage difference, this is what I have heard from several different sources). When I use the shortbow (in fractals), I like to flank the foe just outside of melee range, and I always see the Spotter buff on my allies.
Two simple things, but they make a big difference.
Nymeriali #Druid
[TLA] Desolation (EU)
[TLA] Desolation (EU)
Like an example would be where a player would ask for help with stats in map chat, or something of the like, then as soon as they say “I’m a ranger”, map chat will suddenly have people going “lol, rangers” or like “delete your character”, things that I’m used to, but are still annoying, but to new players could easily be considered abusive conduct. I’ve seen this happen. I’m not just making a hypothetical situation.
I guess my new point is: you don’t want a ranger in your group for a speed clear? That’s fine. Your choice/ the group’s choice. But why the heck do people have to chew people out for playing what’s fun when it’s literally none of their business?
Perfectly understandable to be confused by the vitriol of some people. In a sense, they’re being prejudice against these people. But it’s a prejudice that comes from negative experiences such as the ones described in this thread. It feels unfair to have people be prejudice against a choice you’ve made, but it is a truism throughout all of life and not limited to just rangers in GW2. You will be judged as those you choose to associate yourself with.
In the end, I think the greatest thing in our power is to stop saying things like “I don’t care” and to show people the value of your profession. If rangers can break the stereotype they’ve created for themselves, then negative opinion will start to die down (I don’t think it’ll ever disappear, but you’ll run across it less). To do that, of course, it really comes down to understanding what others want… to “care” about other people and what they’re doing.
Genevieve Talbot [NP] – Noble Phantasm on Stormbluff Isle
(edited by DigitalKirin.9714)
1. 95% of pug rangers play really bad
2. Calling people who ask for dos as elitist is saying people who “play how they want” regardless of their team are elitist
3. Rangers get hate because a bunch of pugs with LB think they are doing massive dos
4. I instantly kick rangers with bad builds/weapon sets because usually if I tell them to play as a team (e.g. stack, pet management) and it usually leads to me being kick so I rather not deal with that
5. Rangers with a bad build are like dead weight I rather 4 man a dungeon than have a ranger
This is for all Rangers out there:
1.Please, use 20/0/0/10/0 as a core to your PvE build. Spotter and traited Frost Spirit is all you need to bring. From there, you can build how ever you like (preferably zerker and full dmg build). If all Rangers would use this as the core of their build, it would make us all look better in pugs.
2.Lose the bear and the longbow. Take cats and if you really must take ranged, use shortbow. It out-dps’ the longbow at “Spotter range”, which is the range where your allies get the Spotter buff (note: I haven’t tested the damage difference, this is what I have heard from several different sources). When I use the shortbow (in fractals), I like to flank the foe just outside of melee range, and I always see the Spotter buff on my allies.
Two simple things, but they make a big difference.
It used to be that the LB only out dps’d the SB at maximum range. I’m not sure how it works with the latest buff to the ranges but I’d suspect at ~600 the shortbow probably still does more dps if you can keep the enemy flanked.
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The best thing that can happen to this game and the rangers. Is for the ranger community to come together and say enough is enough. Instead of making threads like this make threads teaching other rangers how to make good builds. And change the attitudes of the community members that say ranger is a ranged class regardless of the fact that every profession is both a melee and ranged class.
For far to long the ranger community as a whole has rather than adapt pretty much fought ANET and the rest of the community over this notion that ranger is a pure ranged class and want it to be the ranger or the archer from Gw1 or some other game. It just simply is not and it will never be.
And that is part of the root cause of all the problems is a attitude that is help by some rangers.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
(edited by Warlord.9074)
This is for all Rangers out there:
1.Please, use 20/0/0/10/0 as a core to your PvE build. Spotter and traited Frost Spirit is all you need to bring. From there, you can build how ever you like (preferably zerker and full dmg build). If all Rangers would use this as the core of their build, it would make us all look better in pugs.
If all rangers would use this as the core of the build, it would mean we’d get a ton of rangers who are almost built the same. Sure, we’d be effective, but it’s like telling the warrior to suck it up and get back to hammer-time.
It may be effective, or efficient, but I’d rather reach my own equilibrium on what I like. And as Trait resets over and over can get expensive right now, I’ll wait.
2.Lose the bear and the longbow. Take cats and if you really must take ranged, use shortbow. It out-dps’ the longbow at “Spotter range”, which is the range where your allies get the Spotter buff (note: I haven’t tested the damage difference, this is what I have heard from several different sources). When I use the shortbow (in fractals), I like to flank the foe just outside of melee range, and I always see the Spotter buff on my allies.
I stopped using a bear to just soak damage and aggro a while ago, even if it was there to wait out the death timer for the other pet. I pretty much stick to wolf right now, I find the knockdown/howl works pretty decently in PvE. Alternatively, Black Widow because I do not like the Black Moa.
(And freely admitting to nostalgic choice as I kept a wolf pet almost entirely through my GW1 career. And when it wasn’t a wolf it was a black moa. Because that one scene outside the Sunspear hall is hilarious. Every. Time.)
As for longbow, I drag it out when I absolutely do not want to be near something dropping mid-range AOEs, or just roaming around. I mostly stick with shortbow and axe/horn. Again, I stay out of melee because I’ve not been very good at surviving in it and my reflexes are not tuned for it.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
The best thing that can happen to this game and the rangers. Is for the ranger community to come together and say enough is enough. Instead of making threads like this make threads teaching other rangers how to make good builds. And change the attitudes of the community members that say ranger is a ranged class regardless of the fact that every profession is both a melee and ranged class.
For far to long the ranger community as a whole has rather than adapt pretty much fought ANET and the rest of the community over this notion that ranger is a pure ranged class and want it to be the ranger or the archer from Gw1 or some other game. It just simply is not and it will never be.
It’s a problem with both the players and the game staff though. They intentionally created a Ranger archetype class in a game where they knew for a fact that ranged damage was inferior. They then gave it 2 bows, 1 throwing axe, a GS that does weak dps in exchange for evades and a 1h sword that roots on autoattack. They also didn’t help when they advertised the ranger as an archer and even emphasized it in the character creation menu. In fact, there is no other way to play a minion class than to range. The whole point of a minion is for it to act as a meat shield, allowing the player to dps from a distance, safe from the enemy and able to devote all attention and resources to offense. Its redundant to have both in melee range when it takes both attacking in tandem to equal the dps of other classes as is the case with the GW2 Ranger.
Now, again that doesn’t excuse people’s desire to play ineffective builds, but it is no way a problem we created for our selves, by our selves. This is just as much a result of Anet’s poor advertising of the class and their inability to focus it in a game that, frankly, has no place for long range combat.
They didn’t have to force the Longbow to be a 1000-1500 range for best dps weapon, but they did, and refuse to change it when 1.5 years of gameplay have shown that doesn’t work. Not in instanced PvE and certainly not in smallscale PvP.
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(edited by Substance E.4852)
I just hate rangers that tell me to go melee on my warrior/guardian while pewpewing form range themselves, because I’m suppose to “take the damage”. :v
In the name of justice, let me be lazy too~
I just hate rangers that tell me to go melee on my warrior/guardian while pewpewing form range themselves, because I’m suppose to “take the damage”. :v
In the name of justice, let me be lazy too~
As much as I love to make fun of bearbows, the “Spam Wave of Wrath so I can get maximum tags4bags” Guardians make my blood boil.
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I play it to have fun.
I think most people actually play the game to have fun. Even the people asking for optimal builds in their dungeon runs.
I don’t care if someone in my dungeon group is sub-optimal. I don’t really care if i’m suboptimal.
Personally, I respect your opinion and your requirements or non-requirements for your own dungeon run. However, I think it important to realize that each and every person’s opinion is just as valid as the next person’s. So while you might not care, someone else might.
Personally, I think it is the right of the person forming the group to set the standards that people should meet if they would like to join the party.
I don’t really understand WHY it matters to so many people.
And that’s fine, you don’t have to understand why… just understand that some people find it important to them.
I think we’d have a lot less conflict if people who formed parties really took the time to write out their comments, and people who seek to join parties would read the comments and not hope and pray that the party they join doesn’t notice that they don’t meet the requirements. But people will be people.
I can respect what you’re saying there. I probably misplaced my anger there. My problem isn’t so much looking for a dungeon party. It’s when people tell me my class is garbage OUTSIDE of those situations. Some people (keep in mind, it’s only a few) aggressively hate rangers in all cases, and have no problem saying it to the player’s face, even if they didn’t start any argument.
Like an example would be where a player would ask for help with stats in map chat, or something of the like, then as soon as they say “I’m a ranger”, map chat will suddenly have people going “lol, rangers” or like “delete your character”, things that I’m used to, but are still annoying, but to new players could easily be considered abusive conduct. I’ve seen this happen. I’m not just making a hypothetical situation.
I guess my new point is: you don’t want a ranger in your group for a speed clear? That’s fine. Your choice/ the group’s choice. But why the heck do people have to chew people out for playing what’s fun when it’s literally none of their business?
I never said I hated rangers. I think that is wrong to hate someone just because of the class they play. Everyone is free to look at my post history in this thread. What I do dislike is a subset of rangers not all rangers. You can go back in my post history and see which subset I hate. Mainly the bear bow rangers.
The ranger community as a whole unlike other professions community has strait up coddled the bear bow rangers. Because at one time a large portion of the ranger community were bear bow rangers. Or people that thought just becasue ranger can use a ranged weapon than it must be a ranged class and pretty much refused to use any melee. While every other profession has both ranged and melee options. I never see eles saying I am a mage why should I use a lighting hammer? See that is my point.
Then I misinterpreted a large portion of your posts. I too hate when people argue for ranger=ranged only. Makes my blood boil. I toyed with tons of melee builds in GW1 that worked fine, in fact some, like bunny thumper hammer builds, were meta in certain forms of PVP. I much prefer melee over ranged on my ranger.
And as people have stated, trying to prove the merit of my class, well, I’ve tried that, and many people are too stubborn to listen. When mentioning the spotter/frost spirit build I get responses like “well, other classes are still better”, etc.
You can understand my frustration and why I might be a tad over-defensive about this subject.
I just hate rangers that tell me to go melee on my warrior/guardian while pewpewing form range themselves, because I’m suppose to “take the damage”. :v
In the name of justice, let me be lazy too~
As much as I love to make fun of bearbows, the “Spam Wave of Wrath so I can get maximum tags4bags” Guardians make my blood boil.
haha, just switch to something equilevant and go stand next to them doing the same thing. : P If they’re eligible for tags4bags playstyle, so are you. \o/
I just hate rangers that tell me to go melee on my warrior/guardian while pewpewing form range themselves, because I’m suppose to “take the damage”. :v
In the name of justice, let me be lazy too~
As much as I love to make fun of bearbows, the “Spam Wave of Wrath so I can get maximum tags4bags” Guardians make my blood boil.
haha, just switch to something equilevant and go stand next to them doing the same thing. : P If they’re eligible for tags4bags playstyle, so are you. \o/
Oh if the ranger had a “Wave of Wealth” option I’d certainly use it.
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I would actually gently ask moderators to delete this thread, since it’s just perpetuating the hate towards Rangers and myths about their supposed “uselessness.” Unproven remarks about how “95% of Ranger players are bad” etc. Any new player that reads this will not focus on the good posts (such as melee Ranger being good, etc.), and will focus on how “bad” Rangers are, possibly perpetuating the irrational myth. It’s not a thread that helps the case in any way or fashion, and just proves how biased some in the community are against Rangers (word of mouth hate + confirmation bias.)
Also, when people say “ranged has no place in this game” it’s a very wild exaggeration, for even in Dungeons it has its occasional place. Never mind WvW and other formats. This game is about more than a few group instances.
(Even Bears should have their place, even though I barely use them myself.)
They also didn’t help when they advertised the ranger as an archer and even emphasized it in the character creation menu. In fact, there is no other way to play a minion class than to range. The whole point of a minion is for it to act as a meat shield, allowing the player to dps from a distance, safe from the enemy and able to devote all attention and resources to offense.
You can tank for the minion. In other games, I’ve played tank and kited the mob around while my pet dealt the damage.
The problem is, in GW2 the pet can’t hit a moving target. So the only way to use a pet in this game is as a meat shield (or a buff-bot that doesn’t attack).
They didn’t have to force the Longbow to be a 1000-1500 range for best dps weapon, but they did, and refuse to change it when 1.5 years of gameplay have shown that doesn’t work. Not in instanced PvE and certainly not in smallscale PvP.
1000-1500 range longbow wouldn’t be a problem if they’d increase buff radius to include the longbow ranger (and likewise the longbow ranger’s buffs would cover the melee folks).
That’s something I really miss about GW1 – it had really good dynamic, mobile combat. Due to the holy trinity, you had a front-line of tanks, and a back-line of healers and ranged DD. Yet your party could roam around killing stuff, and everyone’s buffs covered each other unless you got separated. There was a certain fluidity to the combat which is completely missing in GW2. The vast majority of encounters in GW2 are run to a spot, fight, run to another spot, fight, etc. In GW1 you would advance or retreat based on how well or badly the fight was going.
See! My ranger doesn’t just use bows! Sort of…
The major mechanical problem with Rangers is that if the pet gets hit, both it and the owner slow to combat speed.
THIS IS NOT TRUE.
A pet will not put the ranger in combat if it is hit. It will put the ranger in combat if the pet hits something. A pet on passive will not do this, a pet that is commanded to heel as soon as it is hit will not do this.
Pet’s also don’t aggro mobs unless they attack them. There was a patch about a year ago that made it so that any pet or minion cannot aggro mobs the party hasn’t already aggroed (commanding the pet to attack something is the exception).
Guys, please learn how to play the basics of the class if you’re going to post in these threads. You are demonstrating that one of the big reasons players dislike the ranger is that players are ignorant and are creating myths that hurt the image of the class.
If I had to guess why informed players don’t like the ranger as much as other classes I would say it’s because the class has no outright broken or insanely powerful skill that groups absolutely love in PvE. Fiery Great Sword is hella broken and the current meta revolves around abusing the unintentional design of Fiery Rush. Frost Bow is one of the best skills at destroying objects (burrows, CoF crystal etc) and Persisting Flames makes elementalists one of the easiest classes to stack Might and Fury with.
Warriors have some of the easiest to use melee weapons that do high raw damage. They have ways to automatically stack Might, easy access to group Fury and banners are huge buffs to the entire party for the price of a single utility skill (the raw stat bonuses from banners is crazy high).
Rangers have Spotter which takes up space in a densely packed trait line of mediocre but desired traits and Frost Spirit, a kittenty functioning imitation of a DPS banner. Their primary DPS melee weapon is probably the most controversial in the game with it’s useless in PvE leap functionality which many rangers flat out do not enjoy playing with. To be optimal DPS on a ranger you have to use a poorly designed weapon. Pets offer very little in terms of positive gameplay for rangers or their parties, they don’t have many interesting or useful skills in PvE, their primary contribution is to do the DPS they steal from the ranger in the first place and their don’t over much build diversity or support for the ranger and their party. Blame it on player skill all you like, I genuinely believe ranger issues in PvE are design issues, every class has it’s fair share of below average players, I’ve personally seen more bad warriors and elementalists than I have bad rangers. Even if they can hold their own in an end game group, rangers are fighting against the class design to do so.