Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

Or we’re seriously spoiled. Sure a good number of skins are sold on at the gem store. That being said nearly every 2 weeks we get new skins that can be earned in game sometimes even more then one in a single release. Which other MMO does that? I bet Gw2 has released more free skins then even Gw1 did with its expansions. Yet people seem to have tunnel vision and only see the paid skins.

My point was about armor skins. How many armor sets have been added to the game since launch that can be gained without buying gems (cash or gold)? There’s Ascended. Please note, I’m not talking backpacks, of which there have been many. Nor am I talking weapons. There have been quite a few of those as well.

My D+ rating on rewards is based on several things:

• Needing a bloody spreadsheet to keep track of the materials needed to craft anything other than generic exotics.
• Too many rewards are incremental, and there is no excitement in gathering the many components.
• All but a large handful of the 1000’s of events across the game offer little reward. The lion’s share of rewards are in that large handful, and those events are not (for me) very much fun because there are too many bloody people doing them, especially since mega-server
• RNG-based rewards are based on extremely low chance RNG. That’s par for the course for MMO’s. However, too often, the only value in the vast majority of RNG drops are the salvage or what the TP will give you in silver

IndigoSundown.5419:

Galen Grey.4709:

Or we’re seriously spoiled. Sure a good number of skins are sold on at the gem store. That being said nearly every 2 weeks we get new skins that can be earned in game sometimes even more then one in a single release. Which other MMO does that? I bet Gw2 has released more free skins then even Gw1 did with its expansions. Yet people seem to have tunnel vision and only see the paid skins.

My point was about armor skins. How many armor sets have been added to the game since launch that can be gained without buying gems (cash or gold)? There’s Ascended. Please note, I’m not talking backpacks, of which there have been many. Nor am I talking weapons. There have been quite a few of those as well.

My D+ rating on rewards is based on several things:

• Needing a bloody spreadsheet to keep track of the materials needed to craft anything other than generic exotics.
• Too many rewards are incremental, and there is no excitement in gathering the many components.
• All but a large handful of the 1000’s of events across the game offer little reward. The lion’s share of rewards are in that large handful, and those events are not (for me) very much fun because there are too many bloody people doing them, especially since mega-server
• RNG-based rewards are based on extremely low chance RNG. That’s par for the course for MMO’s. However, too often, the only value in the vast majority of RNG drops are the salvage or what the TP will give you in silver

All excellent points!

Galen Grey.4709:

Or we’re seriously spoiled. Sure a good number of skins are sold on at the gem store. That being said nearly every 2 weeks we get new skins that can be earned in game sometimes even more then one in a single release. Which other MMO does that? I bet Gw2 has released more free skins then even Gw1 did with its expansions. Yet people seem to have tunnel vision and only see the paid skins.

Ohh boy I see I have my homework for today! Lets try it with only cantha:

GW1 Armors in cantha, there was: Shing Jea, Kurzick/Luxon & Elite Version, Canthan, Elite Canthan. Thats for 6 professions and they had all these versions for Ritu/Sin+ Exotic Armor sets. That means 8 (Profession) * 7 (Version) * 5 (Armor Piece) + 10 ( For ritu/Sin exotic armor) That’s 290 different armor piece.

Now on GW2 Non-gemstore armor pieces
2 new PvP set , Ascended armor . Thats three version from each means 9 different armor with 6 individual piece. 54 in all
Hellfire/Radiant, 12 different piece.
now let’s count small things:
In the recent patch 6 new backpacks for every crafting profession : 48
Living story backpacks since release ( Check it on wiki if you don’t believe me): 30
+ 1 PvP Backpack
3 craftable, god themed back & fractal backs (4)
Collection reward backpack (1)
Standalone armors (Like dry top glasses etc, counted on wiki) : 27

Total Individual armor number: 177 ,

and Just for fun!
GW2 Gemstore Armor pieces since release!

6 Gemstore armor packs have been released ( means 6 medium, 6 light, 6 heavy.)
That means : 18*6 individual armor piece : 108
Number of individual armor pieces: 43 + 5 from black lion chest.
Also costumes: 8 added since release, lets count with two/ each : 16

Total armor pieces added to gemstore since release : 172 Individual armor piece

If I miscalculated something feel free to correct me.

Edit: Added hellfire & radiant to the numbers.

Scipio.3204:

Galen Grey.4709:

Or we’re seriously spoiled. Sure a good number of skins are sold on at the gem store. That being said nearly every 2 weeks we get new skins that can be earned in game sometimes even more then one in a single release. Which other MMO does that? I bet Gw2 has released more free skins then even Gw1 did with its expansions. Yet people seem to have tunnel vision and only see the paid skins.

Ohh boy I see I have my homework for today! Lets try it with only cantha:

GW1 Armors in cantha, there was: Shing Jea, Kurzick/Luxon & Elite Version, Canthan, Elite Canthan. Thats for 6 professions and they had all these versions for Ritu/Sin+ Exotic Armor sets. That means 8 (Profession) * 7 (Version) * 5 (Armor Piece) + 10 ( For ritu/Sin exotic armor) That’s 290 different armor piece.

Now on GW2 Non-gemstore armor pieces
2 new PvP set , Ascended armor . Thats three version from each means 9 different armor with 6 individual piece. 54 in all , now let’s count small things:
In the recent patch 6 new backpacks for every crafting profession : 48
Living story backpacks since release ( Check it on wiki if you don’t believe me): 30
+ 1 PvP Backpack
3 craftable, god themed back & fractal backs (4)
Collection reward backpack (1)
Standalon armors (Like dry top glasses etc, counted on wiki) : 27

Total Individual armor number: 165 ,

and Just for fun!
GW2 Gemstore Armor pieces since release!

6 Gemstore armor packs have been released ( means 6 medium, 6 light, 6 heavy.)
That means : 18*6 individual armor piece : 108
Number of individual armor pieces: 43 + 5 from black lion chest.
Also costumes: 8 added since release, lets count with two/ each : 16

Total armor pieces added to gemstore since release : 172 Individual armor piece

If I miscalculated something feel free to correct me.

Figure i’d add that, that was in one years time, for the Cantha stuff

You left out all the costume packs they released in the gem store as well. Town clothing, and holiday costumes, also count.

munkiman.3068:

Scipio.3204:

Galen Grey.4709:

Or we’re seriously spoiled. Sure a good number of skins are sold on at the gem store. That being said nearly every 2 weeks we get new skins that can be earned in game sometimes even more then one in a single release. Which other MMO does that? I bet Gw2 has released more free skins then even Gw1 did with its expansions. Yet people seem to have tunnel vision and only see the paid skins.

Ohh boy I see I have my homework for today! Lets try it with only cantha:

GW1 Armors in cantha, there was: Shing Jea, Kurzick/Luxon & Elite Version, Canthan, Elite Canthan. Thats for 6 professions and they had all these versions for Ritu/Sin+ Exotic Armor sets. That means 8 (Profession) * 7 (Version) * 5 (Armor Piece) + 10 ( For ritu/Sin exotic armor) That’s 290 different armor piece.

Now on GW2 Non-gemstore armor pieces
2 new PvP set , Ascended armor . Thats three version from each means 9 different armor with 6 individual piece. 54 in all , now let’s count small things:
In the recent patch 6 new backpacks for every crafting profession : 48
Living story backpacks since release ( Check it on wiki if you don’t believe me): 30
+ 1 PvP Backpack
3 craftable, god themed back & fractal backs (4)
Collection reward backpack (1)
Standalon armors (Like dry top glasses etc, counted on wiki) : 27

Total Individual armor number: 165 ,

and Just for fun!
GW2 Gemstore Armor pieces since release!

6 Gemstore armor packs have been released ( means 6 medium, 6 light, 6 heavy.)
That means : 18*6 individual armor piece : 108
Number of individual armor pieces: 43 + 5 from black lion chest.
Also costumes: 8 added since release, lets count with two/ each : 16

Total armor pieces added to gemstore since release : 172 Individual armor piece

If I miscalculated something feel free to correct me.

Figure i’d add that, that was in one years time, for the Cantha stuff

Yeah, and it’s also sad if I ignore backs & standalone skins, cantha had more armor pieces than gemstore & non gemstore combined after two years.

I would also do this counting on weapons released, (My guess is that gemstore would dominate cantha lol) , but doing it wouldn’t be fair ,since in GW1 you could dye weapons and in GW2 a lots of weapon has been released as different pieces yet they are the same ,but in different colours.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You left out all the costume packs they released in the gem store as well. Town clothing, and holiday costumes, also count.

I did not, I counted every costume as two piece (Body & chest) , and things like bunny ear or grenth hood has been counted on individual pieces

Nerelith.7360:

Yes, even WoW changed things, but not every few Months. I am sure SWG also changed things, but not every few months.

it isn’t that there is change. Change is expected. The nature of the changes, and the frequency of the changes for me… leaves the entire gaming experience here, very unstable for me.

I can only speak for myself. What this is telling me in Gw2 is… that i shouldn’t get too comfortable, because they may change the core of the game again and again, as they " trial and error" their way into making gw2 launch ready and launch worthy.

All which should have been done in closed beta, that is what closed beta is for. I am glad to see we agree.

Anyway, I will be goin on a Lurk and explore mode for a while. I leave the final and obligatory response to you.

So are you suggestions the solution to the problem is for arenanet to react slower to feedback? Cause WoW doesnt introduce changes every 2 weeks, it introduces changes months sometimes years in between. Hence players will need to live with bad decisions for that long and thats the right way to do it ?

Anet really cant win, if they react fast to feedback well then its that they have no direction / trail and error etc.. If they stick to their design decisions then they dont listen to feed back / their players. Same if something takes long to fix / implement. Its like anything Anet do is by default bad.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Galen Grey.4709:

I agree with you, it is a pity we can only be lawful good players practically.

. . . no, no, no.

Despite how much good intention my characters had, they were obviously not lawful good, especially the asura and the charr characters. The asura fell squarely into “chaotic good”, the charr into “chaotic neutral”, and my ranger almost always “neutral good”.

Unless you want to define “lawful good” as being about a greater good, which is more “neutral good” than “lawful good”.

Gah . . . alignment matters.

Also, no, there is absolutely no interesting things in playing chaotic evil, which seems to be the only evil game writers tend to leave in when adding a “good/evil” choice system. If I had to be evil, would rather take “lawful evil”, thanks.

which part of the story have you acting chaotic good or chaotic neutral? I mean I can see the asura feeling chaotic good cause well 1/2 of what they say sound nuts really but at the end of the day story always forces you to be lawful good. We never really act in the end justifies the means matter to get the job done for example and we always do the best we can to do good.

I guess it is technically possible to have a chaotic neutral / evil character if you play and do 0 story and just kill a few mobs during dynamic events and walk away without helping any npc / player .

well at the end of the day I dont think an MMORPG can ever implement a meaningful Alignment system. thats probably something only pen an paper can properly enjoy.

Scipio.3204:

I did not, I counted every costume as two piece (Body & chest) , and things like bunny ear or grenth hood has been counted on individual pieces

Oh okay. My bad.

Galen Grey.4709:

which part of the story have you acting chaotic good or chaotic neutral? I mean I can see the asura feeling chaotic good cause well 1/2 of what they say sound nuts really

Okay, time for geeky alignment talk then.

“Chaotic” isn’t about “woooo chaos rules!”, technically. It’s about eschewing the constraints of laws. It’s not outright anarchy (that’s Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil), it’s basically refusing to follow the establishment except when it serves your goals. Members of the Order of Whispers run towards Chaotic more than others. I could definitely make a case for Tybalt as “Chaotic Good”.

Now, to the talk about my Charr from Blood Legion – who immediately bucked Lawful tendencies when he told his rightful superior to “go shove it” with about as much respect as one can. Then he proceeded to beat him down in the arena and take over leadership, rather than follow orders. That’s Chaotic in a nutshell – and he’s not doing it for “good” reasons, so much as “you kitten me off and I’m not going to let you belittle me for your own ego”. He’s solidly “Chaotic Neutral” and anything he does which is Good is almost by accident, up until the threat of Zhaitan comes calling.

but at the end of the day story always forces you to be lawful good. We never really act in the end justifies the means matter to get the job done for example and we always do the best we can to do good.

While it’s currently excised from the Personal Story, I present to you:

Two words: Krait Orb. We doomed the Krait to becoming Risen so we could secure that artifact to protect Fort Trinity, and also abandoned Apatia so we could escape rather than go down fighting. We did do the “ends justify the means” on that one.

I guess it is technically possible to have a chaotic neutral / evil character if you play and do 0 story and just kill a few mobs during dynamic events and walk away without helping any npc / player .

I’m sorry. You’re very narrow-minded on that score and I feel the need to correct you. You very well can be Chaotic Evil without needing to drown puppies and eat kittykat hearts. (Sometimes, I want to collectively gather all the tabletop gamers who perpetuated the idea of “Chaotic Evil means Stupid Evil” and kick them in the groin.) It means doing whatever you feel like, and who cares of the consequences so long as it doesn’t fall on you.

. . . if what you like happens to be killing an Elder Dragon for the lulz, you can totally put on a righteous face on it and fake your way through it before giving Trahearne a big ol celebratory hug with a dagger in the back, before running off to join the Mist War for fun and profit.

It’s all malleable, and just because you’re “evil” doesn’t mean you can’t pretend to be “good” just to get the job done. That kind of thinking belongs with the paladins.

(Don’t ask what those are.)

IndigoSundown.5419:

Galen Grey.4709:

Or we’re seriously spoiled. Sure a good number of skins are sold on at the gem store. That being said nearly every 2 weeks we get new skins that can be earned in game sometimes even more then one in a single release. Which other MMO does that? I bet Gw2 has released more free skins then even Gw1 did with its expansions. Yet people seem to have tunnel vision and only see the paid skins.

My point was about armor skins. How many armor sets have been added to the game since launch that can be gained without buying gems (cash or gold)? There’s Ascended. Please note, I’m not talking backpacks, of which there have been many. Nor am I talking weapons. There have been quite a few of those as well.

My D+ rating on rewards is based on several things:

• Needing a bloody spreadsheet to keep track of the materials needed to craft anything other than generic exotics.
• Too many rewards are incremental, and there is no excitement in gathering the many components.
• All but a large handful of the 1000’s of events across the game offer little reward. The lion’s share of rewards are in that large handful, and those events are not (for me) very much fun because there are too many bloody people doing them, especially since mega-server
• RNG-based rewards are based on extremely low chance RNG. That’s par for the course for MMO’s. However, too often, the only value in the vast majority of RNG drops are the salvage or what the TP will give you in silver

gees this board really needs to stop asking you to authenticate right when you hit post having you loose what you just typed. It happens every day! grrr… rant over…

sorry ask for details cause I am going to keep this short due to limited time

= There were 5 new full armor sets added as a reward ingame.

= dont think its fair to ignore all other skins just cause they’re not part of a full armor set.

= there were 7 gem shop only skins but you can earn those doing nothing other then playing the game too so you may want to count them too. Like if you want a full armor of lich set you need to run arah 34 times. Those same number of runs will give you enough gold from the end reward to buy a gem shop skin as well if you convert the gold to gems. In truth it will take less then 34 runs cause the loot will provide enough money to cut a few runs. You can also engage in other activities if you dont like dungeons which is a plus.

if you count the gem shop skins too thats 12 set which isnt too bad.

Scipio.3204:

Ohh boy I see I have my homework for today! Lets try it with only cantha:

GW1 Armors in cantha, there was: Shing Jea, Kurzick/Luxon & Elite Version, Canthan, Elite Canthan. Thats for 6 professions and they had all these versions for Ritu/Sin+ Exotic Armor sets. That means 8 (Profession) * 7 (Version) * 5 (Armor Piece) + 10 ( For ritu/Sin exotic armor) That’s 290 different armor piece.

Now on GW2 Non-gemstore armor pieces
2 new PvP set , Ascended armor . Thats three version from each means 9 different armor with 6 individual piece. 54 in all , now let’s count small things:
In the recent patch 6 new backpacks for every crafting profession : 48
Living story backpacks since release ( Check it on wiki if you don’t believe me): 30
+ 1 PvP Backpack
3 craftable, god themed back & fractal backs (4)
Collection reward backpack (1)
Standalon armors (Like dry top glasses etc, counted on wiki) : 27

Total Individual armor number: 165 ,

and Just for fun!
GW2 Gemstore Armor pieces since release!

6 Gemstore armor packs have been released ( means 6 medium, 6 light, 6 heavy.)
That means : 18*6 individual armor piece : 108
Number of individual armor pieces: 43 + 5 from black lion chest.
Also costumes: 8 added since release, lets count with two/ each : 16

Total armor pieces added to gemstore since release : 172 Individual armor piece

If I miscalculated something feel free to correct me.

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

Galen Grey.4709:

With a necro you cannot out dps a warrior passive regen using conditions? /snip/

Bad gear; warriors having sick regen from hsignet and other sources inc food; constant cleanses from cleansing ire; cond immunities etc. It was around the time when hsignet and a couple of other skills were buffed out of proportion, in turn giving warriors near god-mode status. And stacking conds was an effort in futility because I was going down a lot faster than the warrior was (hello 10k hits).

Galen Grey.4709:

/snip/ If that were the case people would need to switch gear all the time during combat. I am currently doing Condition damage, I need one type of gear. Ohh my team mate is low on health, here lets switch gear with healing power and slap a regen on him. /snip/

Changing one’s play style in combat has nothing to do with wanting to try out different builds and stumbling across the brickwall that is stat-based gear. If I wanna try a dps nec in pve I prolly won’t simply load up a dps build and keep the same gear…..

The fact I am ‘suboptimal’ simply due to gear restriction spells bad design. Why they chose to go back on their original concept of gear and build freedom is truly beyond me.

Galen Grey.4709:

I am not sure about nothing in terms of income dont play it enough (we’re talking WvW here right?) But you should have tons of karma which you can use to buy exotics as well.

Perhaps I didn’t make it clear enough, but I only ever tried wvw a couple of times. My main source of karma were karma jugs from dailies…until they removed them.

Galen Grey.4709:

I dont do any of that, I just play what I enjoy playing and only gather the stuff I come across and yet have 220g by now What you mention might be the best way to make money but its not the only way.

You see, I only leveled them to max, I didn’t then do random things apart from an occasional world event. The pve didn’t appeal to me in any kind of way. It’s repetitive, unrewarding, unengaging, the majority of zones felt like the same place with slightly diff mobs, mass events were one big lag fest where you become lost in the big blob of other players, dungeons are interesting (to an extent) only the first time around cuz dps> …
As said, I’m a pvp player byheart, so roaming about in the pveland just cuz is not something you’ll normally see me doing.

Galen Grey.4709:

So you’re saying in any other game you can earn every item the game has to offer? /snip/

You intentionally missed the point – the game adds obstacles to obtaining items ig with a clear intention to promote the shop (mind that challenging content is NOT to be considered an obstacle, however). Other posters in this thread have talked about this issue in a greater detail, so I’ll leave it at that.
On a side note, I didn’t spend a single penny on gems either.

Galen Grey.4709:

My issue with other games isnt cosmetic stuff… /snip/ A weapon skin doesnt compare sorry.

Idc about the cosmetics at the shop. The real problem is the difficulty of obtaining gold for a variety of items, inc. skins or statistically BiS items. For those who focused on the pvp side of the game, it was nigh impossible to have a solid source of income of any sort outside dye crafting. Also, black lion keys – it’s funny when you collected 50 chests in storage over several months but have yet to witness a single key drop.

Also, the things you list are typical for real f2p games, but hey, at least those don’t charge for the game itself, so you’re not losing a dime, if you quit them.
On a side note, you shouldn’t conveniently dismiss that fact GW2 is a lot about the looks, which are often times said to be the ‘end-game’ goal even. So when a company puts a major price tag on items which are basically ‘the whole point of it’, that should trigger some red flags.

Galen Grey.4709:

B2P? they only B2P games are Gw1, Gw2 and Defiance. /snip/ .

Clearly this game ought going f2p instead of outright scamming the playerbase by double charging them.

Galen Grey.4709:

Actually I love the trait changes personally. /snip/

I don’t consider such needless restrictions to building freedom to be very positive for the game, especially not for its longivety, but ok. Killing a mob to obtain a skill is not the problem, it’s having to clear maps and other similar tasks that are nothing else but a time sink. At this rate you might as well make it a requirement to have 100% world completion before you are allowed to hit lvl 80, cuz reasons.

And yea, I most certainly won’t be levelling an alt, or pick up the game again, for that matter.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Okay, time for geeky alignment talk then.

“Chaotic” isn’t about “woooo chaos rules!”, technically. It’s about eschewing the constraints of laws. It’s not outright anarchy (that’s Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil), it’s basically refusing to follow the establishment except when it serves your goals. Members of the Order of Whispers run towards Chaotic more than others. I could definitely make a case for Tybalt as “Chaotic Good”.

Disagree. Chaotic doesnt mean refusing to follow establishement, it measn doing what you feel like doing with disregard of any rules that may state you shouldnt do what you feel like doing.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Now, to the talk about my Charr from Blood Legion – who immediately bucked Lawful tendencies when he told his rightful superior to “go shove it” with about as much respect as one can. Then he proceeded to beat him down in the arena and take over leadership, rather than follow orders. That’s Chaotic in a nutshell – and he’s not doing it for “good” reasons, so much as “you kitten me off and I’m not going to let you belittle me for your own ego”.

If you were human you’d be right but for the charr thats actually lawful behavior.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

He’s solidly “Chaotic Neutral” and anything he does which is Good is almost by accident, up until the threat of Zhaitan comes calling.

By accident how?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

While it’s currently excised from the Personal Story, I present to you:

Two words: Krait Orb. We doomed the Krait to becoming Risen so we could secure that artifact to protect Fort Trinity, and also abandoned Apatia so we could escape
rather than go down fighting. We did do the “ends justify the means” on that one.

You’re right about the krait orb… forgot about that one :p but I dont really agree that leaving Apatia to delay the risen was actually an evil or chaotic act.

It was a retreat, staying to help wouldnt have helped anyone no even Apatia. Apatia was heroic sure but not going head straight into a sucide mission thats not going to achieve anything in the end doesnt mean you’re chaotic or evil.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m sorry. You’re very narrow-minded on that score and I feel the need to correct you. You very well can be Chaotic Evil without needing to drown puppies and eat kittykat hearts. (Sometimes, I want to collectively gather all the tabletop gamers who perpetuated the idea of “Chaotic Evil means Stupid Evil” and kick them in the groin.) It means doing whatever you feel like, and who cares of the consequences so long as it doesn’t fall on you.

who said anything about drowning puppies? you cannot be chaotic evil if you’re risking your live to help others which is what most if not all dynamic events have you doing. Its not about being stupid at all but you cannot be altruistic that doesnt fit the character.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . if what you like happens to be killing an Elder Dragon for the lulz, you can totally put on a righteous face on it and fake your way through it before giving Trahearne a big ol celebratory hug with a dagger in the back, before running off to join the Mist War for fun and profit.

It’s all malleable, and just because you’re “evil” doesn’t mean you can’t pretend to be “good” just to get the job done. That kind of thinking belongs with the paladins.

(Don’t ask what those are.)

For example I wouldnt see someone whos chaotic evil getting within a 100 miles of an elder dragon not while there are other people doing the killing for them. Personal danger is over all too small to justify risking your life. Attacking the dragon is something thats in the good side of the spectrum cause you’ll only doing it to help the greater good, stopping countless people from dyeing.

Nerelith.7360:

While I expect tons of changes In 6 months after release…I don’t expect the core of the game to be changed drastically over and over and over…2 years later. It simply makes me feel that the developers are still experimenting.

As I said Closed Beta. Not so ready for release as it should be.

Happend all the time in Everquest 2 .. especially how stats work and caps and diminishing return was often changed with new expansions.

When i left after nearly 5 years they even changed that Shadowknights no longer
needed INT for their spells and everything worked now with STR.

MMOs in the end are always endless betas .. or the game is more or less dead and only on lifetime support.

Galen Grey.4709:

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

Well, to be fair he/she didn’t account for male and female variants either (which is relevant in both games). If you’re comparing between the original and GW2, you can’t take into account races. While it’s also fair to say, that’s a decent bit of work in and of itself, to make armors work on all races, if we just talk about sets themselves, that’s more telling.

It’s obviously a lot harder in this game to create armor, so it’s probably overall unfair to compare an apple to a banana.

leman.7682:

I don’t even play the game anymore nor do I post on the forums, because every time I try it ends badly and I stopped feeling my feedback has any impact on the actual development, but…
I decided to hop in and try to summarize some of the points brought up in this thread and maybe add some of my point of view.

I’ll start by saying that I same as the OP played GW1, yesterday, and also noticed some of the old nostalgia and attachment to the game. Instead of going why there was such a feeling in GW1 I’m going to try to describe why I feel it is not so much in GW2 anymore.

The problem stated by the OP – feeling detached from the GW2 characters, personality problem. This is very much how I’ve been feeling since the release. Being an RPG fan, I like reading good stories and being able to connect with characters. In GW2 it just doesn’t ever happen and the reasons are many, but in my view the one that most others are rooted in is fragmentation.

• Missed Personal Story – not so much in the story part, but in how it flows from one quest to another, it fails at creating interesting characters and organizations, probably because of budget constraints on this part of the game before the release as well as technical restrictions.
• Post-release mess – Anet trying to find the way to reinvent themselves to successfully service the game after launch over and over again – started with testing some mass events approach (Halloween, Karka) to more structured, temporary-type Season 1 Living Story content to another switch to an instanced type Season 2 LS content. Work is never optimal when things keep changing severely all the time.
• Undefined playable character role in the game world – who are we after almost two seasons of the Living Story? My character started as a Divinity’s Reach nobleman, then was a someone in the Order of Whispers, then it became the Commander of the Pact, then went on adventuring against Scarlet and now is pretty much everything + has a party of NPCs.
• Very limited character customization outside of cosmetics – we had a character development CDI where people gave some amazing ideas on how to improve it and the only thing that came out of it after some months is the dreaded trait acquisition system. Things like prestige classes, more tiered class-specific achievements/titles (I have 3000 tournament wins with my necro and I’m still the same Champion Phantom I was in the first two months after launch). There needs to be a robust, long-term, gameplay-connected progression system on top of levels and traits to make characters more customizable and give the veteran players a >real< reason to play the game. Item collections, cosmetics from the Gem Store and achievement points rewards don’t cut it. I never thought I’d say that but I think Anet needs to look at Blizzard and what they did with Diablo 3 – after a terrible, terrible launch they had it all reworked and the game is actually enjoyable right now and there is always some progression to be made. The art is in creating a long-term progression system that is not impactful too much but still worthwhile pursuing.

This is golden, and so is the continuation, as the two sum up my sentiments perfectly…

p.s. I’ll be adding you on d3 as soon as I get home, and while I am not very much into seasons (rngeezus and all, plus soloing is boring), I do have a pretty cool jade/pet/tank doc on ns!

KarlaGrey.5903:

Bad gear; warriors having sick regen ..

Bad gear? with no gear at all you should be doing over 1k condition damage per second. regen from signet shouldnt come close to match that. also of course you dont need to run with no gear at all, so in actuality you should be doing close to twice that even if using just rares which I am sure you have no trouble getting.
You’re a necro so you should be dishing out conditions and then using crowd control to keep your distance and disrupt the warriors for as long as possible. then dish out a nice fear and chill to have the time to dish out the conditions again as they expire. I am not saying you should win every single fight against warriors but they’re definitely killable.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Changing one’s play style in combat has nothing to do with wanting to try out different builds and stumbling across the brickwall that is stat-based gear. …

its not bad design its inevitable. Gw2 gives you the freedom to play any role. how can any gear support any role? Other MMOs have essentially the same issue which they solve by forcing you to stick to a single role. Thats an option but I dont really see the need for it. There will also be that build you love most, get the best gear for it and then get rares for the other builds once you see thy work for you. You can test out the build in any gear really so why not do that ? Rares are cheap, 2g max you can fully gear up.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Perhaps I didn’t make it clear enough, but I only ever tried wvw a couple of times..

Okey I missunderstood then sorry. What do you typically play then?

KarlaGrey.5903:

You see, I only leveled them to max..

oh so you just do spvp then? how exactly do you have a gear problem in sPvP? Also just by playing sPVP you can now full gear your PvE in exotics thanks to the reward tracks. So 2 problems solved.

KarlaGrey.5903:

You intentionally missed the point..

No I didnt miss the point, you’re doing a supposition that you’re treating as fact. Every game even the ones that do not allow trading of real world into in game currency which is like most MMOs out there have gear thats hard to get yet just because here you can use the cash shop to lessen that doesnt mean the rarity is a result of the cash shop. If it where why would other games have hard to get items even though cash shop has no impact? Correlation doesnt imply causation. Just cause one can observe two related facts.. gemstore that can be used to speed up acquiring an item, item thats hard to get it doesn’t automatically mean one is the result of the other. Hard to get items exist in every MMO and are essential to their longevity. Pirates used to sail the seas and as the number of pirates continues to decline the sea levels continue to rise. Does that mean sea level is rising cause we dont get enough new pirates?

KarlaGrey.5903:

Idc about the cosmetics at the shop…

Like I already said obtaining gold and price of items are relative. Making it easy to obtain gold will just result in prices of those items rising up. If buying the wool to craft a whole ascended get armor costs 43 gold right now. And arenanet made it easy for people to make 50g an hour do you think it would result in people being able to buy the wool they need in less then an hour? no cost of wool would increase. People arent selling bolts of wool for 6s just for fun, they price it like that cause it takes time to gather wool and they’re not going to bother if some other activity makes then 50g per hour when to make the same amount of money they need to farm wool for hours.

KarlaGrey.5903:

On a side note, you shouldn’t conveniently dismiss that fact GW2 is a lot about the look…

Not dismissing anything also company doesnt price any tp item for the millionth time, players do that. But anyhow cosmetic is different because if you need 6 months to get the gear tier you need to play 1/2 the game its totally different then needing 6 months to get the skins you love so much. In 1 you’re missing out stuff and limited during those 6 months, in the other you’re not.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Clearly this game ought going f2p instead of outright scamming..

How is it double charging them? cant you do WvW if you dont buy it off the cash shop now or something?

KarlaGrey.5903:

I don’t consider such needless restrictions to building freedom …

Everything is a time sink, but what fun would a game be if you start, take a step and you’re done you won. Before these changes unlike all other mmos out there, you had nearly immediate access to all weapon skills. access to all traits as you level up which you do very fast, unlocking the utility skills could also be done very fast doing skill challenges yet what was the player feedback? leveling up is awesome in this game cause you get access to everything without needless time sinks? not i was ohh leveling up is so boring its not rewarding at all. Seems like people need to work for stuff to appreciate them, give them everything for free quickly just doesnt cut it.

Also you said you dont PvE, You said you dont WvW which just leaves sPvP. None of the issues you complained about so far, npe, trait unlock, difficulty getting gear etc.. impact sPvP not even 1 tiny miniscule bit. why do these issue bother you really?

Galen Grey.4709:

Scipio.3204:

Ohh boy I see I have my homework for today! Lets try it with only cantha:

GW1 Armors in cantha, there was: Shing Jea, Kurzick/Luxon & Elite Version, Canthan, Elite Canthan. Thats for 6 professions and they had all these versions for Ritu/Sin+ Exotic Armor sets. That means 8 (Profession) * 7 (Version) * 5 (Armor Piece) + 10 ( For ritu/Sin exotic armor) That’s 290 different armor piece.

Now on GW2 Non-gemstore armor pieces
2 new PvP set , Ascended armor . Thats three version from each means 9 different armor with 6 individual piece. 54 in all , now let’s count small things:
In the recent patch 6 new backpacks for every crafting profession : 48
Living story backpacks since release ( Check it on wiki if you don’t believe me): 30
+ 1 PvP Backpack
3 craftable, god themed back & fractal backs (4)
Collection reward backpack (1)
Standalon armors (Like dry top glasses etc, counted on wiki) : 27

Total Individual armor number: 165 ,

and Just for fun!
GW2 Gemstore Armor pieces since release!

6 Gemstore armor packs have been released ( means 6 medium, 6 light, 6 heavy.)
That means : 18*6 individual armor piece : 108
Number of individual armor pieces: 43 + 5 from black lion chest.
Also costumes: 8 added since release, lets count with two/ each : 16

Total armor pieces added to gemstore since release : 172 Individual armor piece

If I miscalculated something feel free to correct me.

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

factoring in multiple races is kind of stretching it. Its the same gear/skin on a different shaped body.

i think now you are just reaching. I guess by that token AION has like near infinite gear sets, since they have a robust body customization option.

I think the point is, pick a charachter, how many different options can you have with that charachter.

Galen Grey.4709:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Bad gear; warriors having sick regen ..

Bad gear? with no gear at all you should be doing over 1k condition damage per second. regen from signet shouldnt come close to match that. also of course you dont need to run with no gear at all, so in actuality you should be doing close to twice that even if using just rares which I am sure you have no trouble getting.
You’re a necro so you should be dishing out conditions and then using crowd control to keep your distance and disrupt the warriors for as long as possible. then dish out a nice fear and chill to have the time to dish out the conditions again as they expire. I am not saying you should win every single fight against warriors but they’re definitely killable.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Changing one’s play style in combat has nothing to do with wanting to try out different builds and stumbling across the brickwall that is stat-based gear. …

its not bad design its inevitable. Gw2 gives you the freedom to play any role. how can any gear support any role? Other MMOs have essentially the same issue which they solve by forcing you to stick to a single role. Thats an option but I dont really see the need for it. There will also be that build you love most, get the best gear for it and then get rares for the other builds once you see thy work for you. You can test out the build in any gear really so why not do that ? Rares are cheap, 2g max you can fully gear up.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Perhaps I didn’t make it clear enough, but I only ever tried wvw a couple of times..

Okey I missunderstood then sorry. What do you typically play then?

KarlaGrey.5903:

You see, I only leveled them to max..

oh so you just do spvp then? how exactly do you have a gear problem in sPvP? Also just by playing sPVP you can now full gear your PvE in exotics thanks to the reward tracks. So 2 problems solved.

KarlaGrey.5903:

You intentionally missed the point..

No I didnt miss the point, you’re doing a supposition that you’re treating as fact. Every game even the ones that do not allow trading of real world into in game currency which is like most MMOs out there have gear thats hard to get yet just because here you can use the cash shop to lessen that doesnt mean the rarity is a result of the cash shop. If it where why would other games have hard to get items even though cash shop has no impact? Correlation doesnt imply causation. Just cause one can observe two related facts.. gemstore that can be used to speed up acquiring an item, item thats hard to get it doesn’t automatically mean one is the result of the other. Hard to get items exist in every MMO and are essential to their longevity. Pirates used to sail the seas and as the number of pirates continues to decline the sea levels continue to rise. Does that mean sea level is rising cause we dont get enough new pirates?

KarlaGrey.5903:

Idc about the cosmetics at the shop…

Like I already said obtaining gold and price of items are relative. Making it easy to obtain gold will just result in prices of those items rising up. If buying the wool to craft a whole ascended get armor costs 43 gold right now. And arenanet made it easy for people to make 50g an hour do you think it would result in people being able to buy the wool they need in less then an hour? no cost of wool would increase. People arent selling bolts of wool for 6s just for fun, they price it like that cause it takes time to gather wool and they’re not going to bother if some other activity makes then 50g per hour when to make the same amount of money they need to farm wool for hours.

KarlaGrey.5903:

On a side note, you shouldn’t conveniently dismiss that fact GW2 is a lot about the look…

Not dismissing anything also company doesnt price any tp item for the millionth time, players do that. But anyhow cosmetic is different because if you need 6 months to get the gear tier you need to play 1/2 the game its totally different then needing 6 months to get the skins you love so much. In 1 you’re missing out stuff and limited during those 6 months, in the other you’re not.

there is a build of warrior for whom conditions is basically worthless. It turns conditions into boons, and has extremely high healing power. It can clear conditions constantly.

However it is kind of tanky, but warrior has pretty high base damages, and can probably kill a condi necro over time.
poison will turn into regen, bleed stacks will get cured, and they will regen from signet as well as the regen spell.

that said its essentially a hard counter for attrition condi builds, and it may have been nerfed. It takes forever to do anything, and generally one should just run away if you face one of these builds.

munkiman.3068:

Galen Grey.4709:

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

Well, to be fair he/she didn’t account for male and female variants either (which is relevant in both games). If you’re comparing between the original and GW2, you can’t take into account races. While it’s also fair to say, that’s a decent bit of work in and of itself, to make armors work on all races, if we just talk about sets themselves, that’s more telling.

It’s obviously a lot harder in this game to create armor, so it’s probably overall unfair to compare an apple to a banana.

That is a good point. Also, Guild Wars 2 seems to have more diversity in how people look, because of mixing armor pieces from different sets/pieces. I don’t remember nearly as much diversity in Guild Wars 1 because people didn’t seem to veer to far, if at all, away from the armor sets.

eisberg.2379:

munkiman.3068:

Galen Grey.4709:

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

Well, to be fair he/she didn’t account for male and female variants either (which is relevant in both games). If you’re comparing between the original and GW2, you can’t take into account races. While it’s also fair to say, that’s a decent bit of work in and of itself, to make armors work on all races, if we just talk about sets themselves, that’s more telling.

It’s obviously a lot harder in this game to create armor, so it’s probably overall unfair to compare an apple to a banana.

That is a good point. Also, Guild Wars 2 seems to have more diversity in how people look, because of mixing armor pieces from different sets/pieces. I don’t remember nearly as much diversity in Guild Wars 1 because people didn’t seem to veer to far, if at all, away from the armor sets.

the lack of diversity, was mostly because you didnt see most players. The ones you did see were generally using show off pieces, like chaos gloves elite armors etc.
When you spend like a month getting a vabbian set, you will probably wear it almost exclusively

Galen Grey.4709:

Bad gear? with no gear at all you should be doing over 1k condition damage per second. regen from signet shouldnt come close to match that. /snip/.

I suppose you missed the part about cond immunities, cleanses, gap closers, regen from passive procs, food … (also see phys’ reply)

Galen Grey.4709:

Gw2 gives you the freedom to play any role. /snip/

GW managed to do just that quite nicely. Gw2, on the other hand, went full bonkers and picked the typical mmo approach by adding stats to gear.
Also, we could argue on that quasi freedom due to the expendability of fair portion of roles outside dps. Btw rares are poop.

Galen Grey.4709:

oh so you just do spvp then? how exactly do you have a gear problem in sPvP? Also just by playing sPVP you can now full gear your PvE in exotics thanks to the reward tracks. So 2 problems solved.

Well, I’d love to pve more (I pve’ed quite a lot on GW, after all), but said ill design is just too troublesome to be worth it, then there are all the 1001 woes of the pvp…

Galen Grey.4709:

gear thats hard to get yet just because here you can use the cash shop to lessen that doesnt mean the rarity is a result of the cash shop. If it where why would other games have hard to get items even though cash shop has no impact? Correlation doesnt imply causation. Just cause one can observe two related facts.. gemstore that can be used to speed up acquiring an item, item thats hard to get it doesn’t automatically mean one is the result of the other. Hard to get items exist in every MMO and are essential to their longevity.

It’s the manner of implementation – when items are put behind ridiculous grind that is not ‘difficult/challenging’ to obtain, that’s just plain nuisance and mindless grind. See winterday craftables, for example. While they’re the tip of the ice berg, you hopefuly don’t intend on arguing such items serve as a tool to boost game longevity. If anything, they kill it off.

Galen Grey.4709:

Like I already said obtaining gold and price of items are relative. Making it easy to obtain gold will just result in prices of those items rising up. If buying the wool to craft a whole ascended get armor costs 43 gold right now. And arenanet made it easy for people to make 50g an hour do you think it would result in people being able to buy the wool they need in less then an hour? no cost of wool would increase. People arent selling bolts of wool for 6s just for fun, they price it like that cause it takes time to gather wool and they’re not going to bother if some other activity makes then 50g per hour when to make the same amount of money they need to farm wool for hours.

Who knows. I for once know that most prices went down on GW as time went by, although many items became more easily farmable due to the introduction of food, new skills and builds while players were given alternatives and other means of earning gold (though the current GW market situation is sort of skewed/screwed). It appears to be a GW2 phenomenon that prices just keep on rising instead.

Galen Grey.4709:

Not dismissing anything also company doesnt price any tp item for the millionth time, players do that. But anyhow cosmetic is different because if you need 6 months to get the gear tier you need to play 1/2 the game its totally different then needing 6 months to get the skins you love so much. In 1 you’re missing out stuff and limited during those 6 months, in the other you’re not.

Iirc the gem<->gold covnersion isn’t as innocent as you’re tying to make it look, but I don’t have the time/nerves to dig up the posts discussing that issue.
And well, you’re missing out on the skins, which are considered end-game, and on the BiS, but it’s true how you don’t need either if you’re just doing random things and stick to zergs in wvw.

On double charging – the game is borderline a f2p but still charges you for the box. Just a matter of time unti the store starts adding non-cosmetics (outside convenience items).

On time sink – see GW, and behold how such a simple concept in terms of gearing, leveling, build-making, and skill hunting boasts longevity stretching way over 5 years.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Galen Grey.4709:

Not dismissing anything also company doesnt price any tp item for the millionth time, players do that. But anyhow cosmetic is different because if you need 6 months to get the gear tier you need to play 1/2 the game its totally different then needing 6 months to get the skins you love so much. In 1 you’re missing out stuff and limited during those 6 months, in the other you’re not.

Iirc the gem<->gold covnersion isn’t as innocent as you’re tying to make it look, but I don’t have the time/nerves to dig up the posts discussing that issue.
And well, you’re missing out on the skins, which are considered end-game, and on the BiS, but you don’t really need either if you’re just doing normal things (zergs).

On double charging – the game is borderline a f2p but still charges you for the box. Just a matter of time unti the store starts adding non-cosmetics (outside convenience items).

On time sink – see GW, and behold how such a simple concept in terms of gearing, leveling, build-making, and skill hunting boasts longevity stretching way over 5 years.

just like to say here. Unless GW2 starts selling content, only one of two things can happen with gw2.

• they cater to getting new players to buy the box
• they cater to the cash shop, and basically become a f2p cash shop game.

this is because your monetization policy determines what you produce. The only way they can continue to make money, is to make more people want gem shop items. Or have new players buy the box.

This is also why you may have noticed a more and more aggressive gem shop as the game goes on. You now get gathering boosts, almost all new cosmetic armors/outfits, special access to well designed npc areas, gathering nodes, cash shop items linked to special resources.
as well as focus on new markets like china, NPE (which they think will retain more new players) Megaserver (less likely for new players to feel lonely)

you cant really escape your monetization policy. It will always effect what/how you develop. That said, as far as value goes for a f2p/b2p mmo, gw2 is probably high on the list.

phys.7689:

eisberg.2379:

munkiman.3068:

Galen Grey.4709:

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

Well, to be fair he/she didn’t account for male and female variants either (which is relevant in both games). If you’re comparing between the original and GW2, you can’t take into account races. While it’s also fair to say, that’s a decent bit of work in and of itself, to make armors work on all races, if we just talk about sets themselves, that’s more telling.

It’s obviously a lot harder in this game to create armor, so it’s probably overall unfair to compare an apple to a banana.

That is a good point. Also, Guild Wars 2 seems to have more diversity in how people look, because of mixing armor pieces from different sets/pieces. I don’t remember nearly as much diversity in Guild Wars 1 because people didn’t seem to veer to far, if at all, away from the armor sets.

the lack of diversity, was mostly because you didnt see most players. The ones you did see were generally using show off pieces, like chaos gloves elite armors etc.
When you spend like a month getting a vabbian set, you will probably wear it almost exclusively

They also didn’t have a wardrobe or an easier way to change your looks around. Tie that with more limited storage, and you mostly had people only holding 1-3 sets, less if you had multiple toons.

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

Scipio.3204:

Ohh boy I see I have my homework for today! Lets try it with only cantha:

GW1 Armors in cantha, there was: Shing Jea, Kurzick/Luxon & Elite Version, Canthan, Elite Canthan. Thats for 6 professions and they had all these versions for Ritu/Sin+ Exotic Armor sets. That means 8 (Profession) * 7 (Version) * 5 (Armor Piece) + 10 ( For ritu/Sin exotic armor) That’s 290 different armor piece.

Now on GW2 Non-gemstore armor pieces
2 new PvP set , Ascended armor . Thats three version from each means 9 different armor with 6 individual piece. 54 in all , now let’s count small things:
In the recent patch 6 new backpacks for every crafting profession : 48
Living story backpacks since release ( Check it on wiki if you don’t believe me): 30
+ 1 PvP Backpack
3 craftable, god themed back & fractal backs (4)
Collection reward backpack (1)
Standalon armors (Like dry top glasses etc, counted on wiki) : 27

Total Individual armor number: 165 ,

and Just for fun!
GW2 Gemstore Armor pieces since release!

6 Gemstore armor packs have been released ( means 6 medium, 6 light, 6 heavy.)
That means : 18*6 individual armor piece : 108
Number of individual armor pieces: 43 + 5 from black lion chest.
Also costumes: 8 added since release, lets count with two/ each : 16

Total armor pieces added to gemstore since release : 172 Individual armor piece

If I miscalculated something feel free to correct me.

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

factoring in multiple races is kind of stretching it. Its the same gear/skin on a different shaped body.

i think now you are just reaching. I guess by that token AION has like near infinite gear sets, since they have a robust body customization option.

I think the point is, pick a charachter, how many different options can you have with that charachter.

mostly valid point
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Apprentice_armor

You can see its not the same model exactly across all races? Look at the neck area of the asura and charr. charr is open, the asuran one is closed Auran version has straps going round the neck, charr version has them on the shoulders. and they’re all pretty different then the human version

But human norn and sylvari are identical. so that I admit was a mistake on my part.

that being said I did forget gender, male and female have differnet models which I forgot to factor in. so even though to be fair races should be multiplied by 3 not by 2 you need to add a 2 multiplier for genders so number remains the same.

Its good to be right even when you’re wrong but yes

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

Scipio.3204:

Ohh boy I see I have my homework for today! Lets try it with only cantha:

GW1 Armors in cantha, there was: Shing Jea, Kurzick/Luxon & Elite Version, Canthan, Elite Canthan. Thats for 6 professions and they had all these versions for Ritu/Sin+ Exotic Armor sets. That means 8 (Profession) * 7 (Version) * 5 (Armor Piece) + 10 ( For ritu/Sin exotic armor) That’s 290 different armor piece.

Now on GW2 Non-gemstore armor pieces
2 new PvP set , Ascended armor . Thats three version from each means 9 different armor with 6 individual piece. 54 in all , now let’s count small things:
In the recent patch 6 new backpacks for every crafting profession : 48
Living story backpacks since release ( Check it on wiki if you don’t believe me): 30
+ 1 PvP Backpack
3 craftable, god themed back & fractal backs (4)
Collection reward backpack (1)
Standalon armors (Like dry top glasses etc, counted on wiki) : 27

Total Individual armor number: 165 ,

and Just for fun!
GW2 Gemstore Armor pieces since release!

6 Gemstore armor packs have been released ( means 6 medium, 6 light, 6 heavy.)
That means : 18*6 individual armor piece : 108
Number of individual armor pieces: 43 + 5 from black lion chest.
Also costumes: 8 added since release, lets count with two/ each : 16

Total armor pieces added to gemstore since release : 172 Individual armor piece

If I miscalculated something feel free to correct me.

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

factoring in multiple races is kind of stretching it. Its the same gear/skin on a different shaped body.

i think now you are just reaching. I guess by that token AION has like near infinite gear sets, since they have a robust body customization option.

I think the point is, pick a charachter, how many different options can you have with that charachter.

mostly valid point
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Apprentice_armor

You can see its not the same model exactly across all races? Look at the neck area of the asura and charr. charr is open, the asuran one is closed Auran version has straps going round the neck, charr version has them on the shoulders. and they’re all pretty different then the human version

But human norn and sylvari are identical. so that I admit was a mistake on my part.

that being said I did forget gender, male and female have differnet models which I forgot to factor in. so even though to be fair races should be multiplied by 3 not by 2 you need to add a 2 multiplier for genders so number remains the same.

Its good to be right even when you’re wrong but yes

Still reaching, both gw1 and gw2 have male and female models (aka it cancels out)
changing 3 things on an armor doesnt really make it a new armor. and even if you wanted to claim it does, that doesnt happen for every peice, or every armor. Some armors are exactly the same except warped for a new body type.
Also IF you want to bring female/male into this, you would have to realize that asura uses identical male/female armor for some peices.

regardless i would say its pointless to even look at races or sex, because that doesnt increase the amount of options you have for a specific charachter. Female char will never be able to wear male clothes, and never be able to wear whatever skin looks slightly different on a human.

Galen Grey.4709:

mostly valid point
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Apprentice_armor

You can see its not the same model exactly across all races? Look at the neck area of the asura and charr. charr is open, the asuran one is closed Auran version has straps going round the neck, charr version has them on the shoulders. and they’re all pretty different then the human version

But human norn and sylvari are identical. so that I admit was a mistake on my part.

that being said I did forget gender, male and female have differnet models which I forgot to factor in. so even though to be fair races should be multiplied by 3 not by 2 you need to add a 2 multiplier for genders so number remains the same.

Its good to be right even when you’re wrong but yes

Actually, if you go by time frame (they were being generous by only talking about Cantha) You’d have to include Nightfall and Eye of the North in our current 2 year window. When you do that, you’ll see a DRASTIC disparity in armor (and possibly weapons), not to mention hero armors…

What it all boils down to, i think, is ANet just got too ambitious when they made GW2 and i really think they are in way over their heads trying to crank out content to keep players excited. It’s quite possible they haven’t developed the tools to ease content creation, lack focus and/or management and, if they are like almost all companies i’ve ever worked for, have pretty heavy communication issues. Not much we can do about that but talk about what we want and whats missing and hope they can pull it off.

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

Scipio.3204:

Ohh boy I see I have my homework for today! Lets try it with only cantha:

GW1 Armors in cantha, there was: Shing Jea, Kurzick/Luxon & Elite Version, Canthan, Elite Canthan. Thats for 6 professions and they had all these versions for Ritu/Sin+ Exotic Armor sets. That means 8 (Profession) * 7 (Version) * 5 (Armor Piece) + 10 ( For ritu/Sin exotic armor) That’s 290 different armor piece.

Now on GW2 Non-gemstore armor pieces
2 new PvP set , Ascended armor . Thats three version from each means 9 different armor with 6 individual piece. 54 in all , now let’s count small things:
In the recent patch 6 new backpacks for every crafting profession : 48
Living story backpacks since release ( Check it on wiki if you don’t believe me): 30
+ 1 PvP Backpack
3 craftable, god themed back & fractal backs (4)
Collection reward backpack (1)
Standalon armors (Like dry top glasses etc, counted on wiki) : 27

Total Individual armor number: 165 ,

and Just for fun!
GW2 Gemstore Armor pieces since release!

6 Gemstore armor packs have been released ( means 6 medium, 6 light, 6 heavy.)
That means : 18*6 individual armor piece : 108
Number of individual armor pieces: 43 + 5 from black lion chest.
Also costumes: 8 added since release, lets count with two/ each : 16

Total armor pieces added to gemstore since release : 172 Individual armor piece

If I miscalculated something feel free to correct me.

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

factoring in multiple races is kind of stretching it. Its the same gear/skin on a different shaped body.

i think now you are just reaching. I guess by that token AION has like near infinite gear sets, since they have a robust body customization option.

I think the point is, pick a charachter, how many different options can you have with that charachter.

mostly valid point
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Apprentice_armor

You can see its not the same model exactly across all races? Look at the neck area of the asura and charr. charr is open, the asuran one is closed Auran version has straps going round the neck, charr version has them on the shoulders. and they’re all pretty different then the human version

But human norn and sylvari are identical. so that I admit was a mistake on my part.

that being said I did forget gender, male and female have differnet models which I forgot to factor in. so even though to be fair races should be multiplied by 3 not by 2 you need to add a 2 multiplier for genders so number remains the same.

Its good to be right even when you’re wrong but yes

Still reaching, both gw1 and gw2 have male and female models (aka it cancels out)
changing 3 things on an armor doesnt really make it a new armor. and even if you wanted to claim it does, that doesnt happen for every peice, or every armor. Some armors are exactly the same except warped for a new body type.
Also IF you want to bring female/male into this, you would have to realize that asura uses identical male/female armor for some peices.

regardless i would say its pointless to even look at races or sex, because that doesnt increase the amount of options you have for a specific charachter. Female char will never be able to wear male clothes, and never be able to wear whatever skin looks slightly different on a human.

The same can be said about the armors in Guild Wars 1, Necromancer will never be able to wear Elementalist gear. So really, a more fair comparison, if comparisons needs to be made, should be how much gear options does 1 character have in choices.

meh, fine count all the races/sexes then, but only count the pieces that are not a skin on a different shaped body.
you will also have to count the sexes for gw1 though

KarlaGrey.5903:

I suppose you missed the part about cond immunities, cleanses, gap closers, regen from passive procs, food … (also see phys’ reply)

well you got weapon swapping for a reason. Though constant condition cleansing I think is a big strech. not really experienced with warriors, dont play one not my play style. so mostly this is coming from research now however I dont see anything in a warrior skill list that converts conditions to boons. A warrior seem to have 3 skilsl that cure conditions with a 20s, 25s, kitten . not exactly constantly.

KarlaGrey.5903:

GW managed to do just that quite nicely. Gw2, on the other hand, went full bonkers and picked the typical mmo approach by adding stats to gear.
Also, we could argue on that quasi freedom due to the expendability of fair portion of roles outside dps. Btw rares are poop.

Gw2 allowed you set any role you wanted quite nicely but allow you to play it? no way! you had like 6 skills when you factor in energy manage how on earth can you have an effective damage, support, crowd control build with 6 skills?

Gw also had stats on gear.

KarlaGrey.5903:

It’s the manner of implementation – when items are put behind ridiculous grind that is not ‘difficult/challenging’ to obtain, that’s just plain nuisance and mindless grind. See winterday craftables, for example.

I think you meant halloween craftables… wintersday craftables where pretty easy.
tell me if you had something wintersday like in mind.
focusing on halloween that were a nightmare to craft, its rarity like i said before and giving you an option to get them rather then having no way to get them if rng didnt favor you and got the drop in the dungeon. But anyway halloween nightmare craftables were 3 out of all the items they added to the game.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Who knows. I for once know that most prices went down on GW as time went by, although many items became more easily farmable due to the introduction of food, new skills and builds while players were given alternatives and other means of earning gold (though the current GW market situation is sort of skewed/screwed). It appears to be a GW2 phenomenon that prices just keep on rising instead.

I dont remember gw prices on a downward trend at all personally. Rare materials and stuff fluctuated up and down. Player prices I cant really speak about well I hated player trading, never bought a thing mostly sold hero armor and lockpicks and thats it.

KarlaGrey.5903:

And well, you’re missing out on the skins, which are considered end-game, and on the BiS, but it’s true how you don’t need either if you’re just doing random things and stick to zergs in wvw.

Like I said dont have best in slot, dont zerg, never had an issue.

KarlaGrey.5903:

On double charging – the game is borderline a f2p but still charges you for the box. Just a matter of time unti the store starts adding non-cosmetics (outside convenience items).

Its a business model, like there are rules that state if you sell box you cannot charge for items or whatever. No buy to play I am aware off charges just for the box and has no micro transactions. There is no such thing as borderline f2p. just cause you have micro transactions doesnt somehow shift your business model. Not to mention that nearly every MMO out there has micro transactions of some sort. and the few that dont still charge you for stuff like server transfers.

KarlaGrey.5903:

On time sink – see GW, and behold how such a simple concept in terms of gearing, leveling, build-making, and skill hunting boasts longevity stretching way over 5 years.

because you could get armor skins in a few minutes just like achievements in the original guild wars. The original gw wasnt that different then gw2. somethings you could get really quickly, most cosmetics / achievements took a great effort to get. You want longevity you need to keep your players busy. Build making is all great, honestly it is but will you use that build to grind mobs / bosses and stuff if there is no reward you can get cause you already have everything?

eisberg.2379:

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

Scipio.3204:

Ohh boy I see I have my homework for today! Lets try it with only cantha:

GW1 Armors in cantha, there was: Shing Jea, Kurzick/Luxon & Elite Version, Canthan, Elite Canthan. Thats for 6 professions and they had all these versions for Ritu/Sin+ Exotic Armor sets. That means 8 (Profession) * 7 (Version) * 5 (Armor Piece) + 10 ( For ritu/Sin exotic armor) That’s 290 different armor piece.

Now on GW2 Non-gemstore armor pieces
2 new PvP set , Ascended armor . Thats three version from each means 9 different armor with 6 individual piece. 54 in all , now let’s count small things:
In the recent patch 6 new backpacks for every crafting profession : 48
Living story backpacks since release ( Check it on wiki if you don’t believe me): 30
+ 1 PvP Backpack
3 craftable, god themed back & fractal backs (4)
Collection reward backpack (1)
Standalon armors (Like dry top glasses etc, counted on wiki) : 27

Total Individual armor number: 165 ,

and Just for fun!
GW2 Gemstore Armor pieces since release!

6 Gemstore armor packs have been released ( means 6 medium, 6 light, 6 heavy.)
That means : 18*6 individual armor piece : 108
Number of individual armor pieces: 43 + 5 from black lion chest.
Also costumes: 8 added since release, lets count with two/ each : 16

Total armor pieces added to gemstore since release : 172 Individual armor piece

If I miscalculated something feel free to correct me.

ohh homework havent had dont in years

anyway.. you forgot to factor in races as well as forgot radiant and hellfire sets though to be fair until last update they were missing 2 pieces.

so its actually 5 sets x 3 version x 5 races x 6 pieces = 405 pieces

according to this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Gem_Store_armor_sets

there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 5 races x 6 pieces = 630 pieces

so in all its 1035 pieces

thats not factoring in that gw2 armor pieces are more elaborate then the gw1 models too.

There were also a truckload of weapon skins released. like 34 unique skins released with the champion reward updates.. The ones that were tied to living story like the aetherized weapons, dragon weapons etc.. The new set tied to dry top. etc.. thats quite a number of skins there too.

but even counting just the none gem shop skins thats 1035 armor pieces + 165 misc (calculated by yourself thanks ) = 1200 thats about 4x more then your count for factions

factoring in multiple races is kind of stretching it. Its the same gear/skin on a different shaped body.

i think now you are just reaching. I guess by that token AION has like near infinite gear sets, since they have a robust body customization option.

I think the point is, pick a charachter, how many different options can you have with that charachter.

mostly valid point
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Apprentice_armor

You can see its not the same model exactly across all races? Look at the neck area of the asura and charr. charr is open, the asuran one is closed Auran version has straps going round the neck, charr version has them on the shoulders. and they’re all pretty different then the human version

But human norn and sylvari are identical. so that I admit was a mistake on my part.

that being said I did forget gender, male and female have differnet models which I forgot to factor in. so even though to be fair races should be multiplied by 3 not by 2 you need to add a 2 multiplier for genders so number remains the same.

Its good to be right even when you’re wrong but yes

Still reaching, both gw1 and gw2 have male and female models (aka it cancels out)
changing 3 things on an armor doesnt really make it a new armor. and even if you wanted to claim it does, that doesnt happen for every peice, or every armor. Some armors are exactly the same except warped for a new body type.
Also IF you want to bring female/male into this, you would have to realize that asura uses identical male/female armor for some peices.

regardless i would say its pointless to even look at races or sex, because that doesnt increase the amount of options you have for a specific charachter. Female char will never be able to wear male clothes, and never be able to wear whatever skin looks slightly different on a human.

The same can be said about the armors in Guild Wars 1, Necromancer will never be able to wear Elementalist gear. So really, a more fair comparison, if comparisons needs to be made, should be how much gear options does 1 character have in choices.

Counting pieces overall about 160 for the six main professions, less for the added professions, not including costumes (which adds 17 looks).

phys.7689:

Still reaching, both gw1 and gw2 have male and female models (aka it cancels out)
changing 3 things on an armor doesnt really make it a new armor. and even if you wanted to claim it does, that doesnt happen for every peice, or every armor. Some armors are exactly the same except warped for a new body type.
Also IF you want to bring female/male into this, you would have to realize that asura uses identical male/female armor for some peices.

regardless i would say its pointless to even look at races or sex, because that doesnt increase the amount of options you have for a specific charachter. Female char will never be able to wear male clothes, and never be able to wear whatever skin looks slightly different on a human.

You’re right, though he counted male and female for gw1, but he didnt so okey fair enough recalculating:
so its actually
Non Gemstore 5 sets x 3 version x 3 races x 6 pieces = 270 + 165 (loose pieces + back items etc..) = 435
Gemstore there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 3 races x 6 pieces = 378
pieces

813 different pieces in total.

as for variation between human asura and char.. those 3 i gave where just examples, the body topology of the 3 races are very different its not just a matter of shrinking armor, it needs to be remodelled to fit the body. Sure its not the same amount of work as starting from scratch but they still had to physically work on them its not just automatic.

We were not really discussing how many options player have but rather how much work on armor anet did in gw1 and gw2

Here’s more..

312 pieces in GW2 in light armor, but that’s obviously shared amount each weight, not profession, like GW1. so just say a total on all weights 936.

So if you just include 3 professions and a single gender (versus 3 weight classes) that’s 420 pieces, all 6 (im just using the core professions and a single gender) 160×6= 960, again not including the 4 added professions, which have about 18 sets per gender.

And in the 4 extra professions that’s another 360 pieces making a grand total for a single gender 1320 across all professions.

munkiman.3068:

Galen Grey.4709:

mostly valid point
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Apprentice_armor

You can see its not the same model exactly across all races? Look at the neck area of the asura and charr. charr is open, the asuran one is closed Auran version has straps going round the neck, charr version has them on the shoulders. and they’re all pretty different then the human version

But human norn and sylvari are identical. so that I admit was a mistake on my part.

that being said I did forget gender, male and female have differnet models which I forgot to factor in. so even though to be fair races should be multiplied by 3 not by 2 you need to add a 2 multiplier for genders so number remains the same.

Its good to be right even when you’re wrong but yes

Actually, if you go by time frame (they were being generous by only talking about Cantha) You’d have to include Nightfall and Eye of the North in our current 2 year window. When you do that, you’ll see a DRASTIC disparity in armor (and possibly weapons), not to mention hero armors…

What it all boils down to, i think, is ANet just got too ambitious when they made GW2 and i really think they are in way over their heads trying to crank out content to keep players excited. It’s quite possible they haven’t developed the tools to ease content creation, lack focus and/or management and, if they are like almost all companies i’ve ever worked for, have pretty heavy communication issues. Not much we can do about that but talk about what we want and whats missing and hope they can pull it off.

Thats why I didnt stress on armor complexity so much. Because like you said in the same timeframe they had 3 expansions out which kinda more then makes up for the added complexity. Though it wouldnt be that drastic of a disparity, i believe factions had the largest variety of armors so multplied by 3 it would something like 870 for gw1 vs 435 for gw2 (excluding paid skins which would bring it nearly on par)

Well especially if they’re also working on an expansion or something big in the background which personally I think most likely they are. I was sceptic to be honest they would be able to keep the 2 week cadence for this long… but so far they did.

Vayne.8563:

Well isn’t that interesting. See I’m a casual player too, and it’s most definitely geared for me.

Admittedly I don’t like how the trait system was redesigned, I don’t love ascended gear (but you don’t need it to do anything casual anyway) and I think the temporary content was a mistake, but for the rest of it…

I like the collections.
I like the new crafting improvements.
I like the new zone…Dry Top is my favorite zone in the game.
I adore the mega server.
I enjoy Guild Missions (particularly puzzles and rushes)
I love the new living story stuff (which isn’t temporary anymore)
I’m really enjoying the NPE.

Seems not all casual players are going to feel the same about stuff.

This. EXCEPT Dry Top. I don’t really like much of the jumping puzzles because I want fun, not frustration/aggravation.

Galen Grey.4709:

munkiman.3068:

Galen Grey.4709:

mostly valid point
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Apprentice_armor

You can see its not the same model exactly across all races? Look at the neck area of the asura and charr. charr is open, the asuran one is closed Auran version has straps going round the neck, charr version has them on the shoulders. and they’re all pretty different then the human version

But human norn and sylvari are identical. so that I admit was a mistake on my part.

that being said I did forget gender, male and female have differnet models which I forgot to factor in. so even though to be fair races should be multiplied by 3 not by 2 you need to add a 2 multiplier for genders so number remains the same.

Its good to be right even when you’re wrong but yes

Actually, if you go by time frame (they were being generous by only talking about Cantha) You’d have to include Nightfall and Eye of the North in our current 2 year window. When you do that, you’ll see a DRASTIC disparity in armor (and possibly weapons), not to mention hero armors…

What it all boils down to, i think, is ANet just got too ambitious when they made GW2 and i really think they are in way over their heads trying to crank out content to keep players excited. It’s quite possible they haven’t developed the tools to ease content creation, lack focus and/or management and, if they are like almost all companies i’ve ever worked for, have pretty heavy communication issues. Not much we can do about that but talk about what we want and whats missing and hope they can pull it off.

Thats why I didnt stress on armor complexity so much. Because like you said in the same timeframe they had 3 expansions out which kinda more then makes up for the added complexity. Though it wouldnt be that drastic of a disparity, i believe factions had the largest variety of armors so multplied by 3 it would something like 870 for gw1 vs 435 for gw2 (excluding paid skins which would bring it nearly on par)

Well especially if they’re also working on an expansion or something big in the background which personally I think most likely they are. I was sceptic to be honest they would be able to keep the 2 week cadence for this long… but so far they did.

GW2 has 44 light armor sets. total sets for all weights approx 132. Including gem store.
GW1 has 254 gender sets (across all professions). Not including hero armor.

Also interesting to note that GW only had 5 pieces per set. And, as you pointed out, less complexity in the shaders.

Actually, they really aren’t pulling off a 2 week cycle, since they have breaks in between. Regardless, I think they bust there kittens just to pull off what they do. Pretty sure i’d be burned out after a year.

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Still reaching, both gw1 and gw2 have male and female models (aka it cancels out)
changing 3 things on an armor doesnt really make it a new armor. and even if you wanted to claim it does, that doesnt happen for every peice, or every armor. Some armors are exactly the same except warped for a new body type.
Also IF you want to bring female/male into this, you would have to realize that asura uses identical male/female armor for some peices.

regardless i would say its pointless to even look at races or sex, because that doesnt increase the amount of options you have for a specific charachter. Female char will never be able to wear male clothes, and never be able to wear whatever skin looks slightly different on a human.

You’re right, though he counted male and female for gw1, but he didnt so okey fair enough recalculating:
so its actually
Non Gemstore 5 sets x 3 version x 3 races x 6 pieces = 270 + 165 (loose pieces + back items etc..) = 435
Gemstore there were 21 armor skin variants in the gem store x 3 races x 6 pieces = 378
pieces

813 different pieces in total.

as for variation between human asura and char.. those 3 i gave where just examples, the body topology of the 3 races are very different its not just a matter of shrinking armor, it needs to be remodelled to fit the body. Sure its not the same amount of work as starting from scratch but they still had to physically work on them its not just automatic.

We were not really discussing how many options player have but rather how much work on armor anet did in gw1 and gw2

You are right, I did forgot Hellfire/Radiant armors, but those are the same on all armor type ( light,medium,heavy) . Also, you forgot to add individual armor pieces to gemstore armors (or you counted them amongst non-gemstore) . The point is, more individual armor piece was added to gemstore ,than to the game.

And yeah, I did not count the races ,since it’s not different armor , it’s just on different body type. But I also didn’t count the GW1 genders as a factor.

Galen Grey.4709:

= There were 5 new full armor sets added as a reward ingame.

Sorry, I am going to ask for details. I can think of 1, Ascended. Perhaps you’d list the other 4.

= dont think its fair to ignore all other skins just cause they’re not part of a full armor set.

Who’s ignoring them?

= there were 7 gem shop only skins but you can earn those doing nothing other then playing the game too so you may want to count them too.

More incremental rewards. Incremental rewards are one of the main reasons I rate the game’s rewards a D+.

Responses in italics.

@Indigo

the other four is Hellfire, Radiant, and the two PvP exclusive sets, the one in the reward track and the tournament rewards

-I don’t know who ignored them , Maybe Galen when he listed the gemstore armors

- I agree with you, but he’s not entirely wrong. Even if they add 100% of the newly added items to the gemstore , some folk is going to say “But that doesn’t count as cash grab since you can earn it with gold”

notorious bob.2061:

I’m not.

Gw2 is gathering dust.

And sadly, I found it really easy to walk away from.

Lord Love A Cross-Eyed Duck….Notorious Bob, if you walked away from the game, why in Tyria are you even reading this game’s forum, much less posting on it???

And have a tad bit of patience and loyalty.

They just revamped the starter zones. Since they did this revampment, maybe , just maybe, this is the foundation for the stuff you want.

Big sigh. Sorry I sound mean. I am truly not a mean person in real life, but when I come to the forums and read all these ugly posts I want to scream.

I happen to love this game…most of it. I don’t PVP, WvW, or such things but I play everyday and have 25 or so level 80s. The things I don’t like about the game I consider crumbs. You can’t eat a delicious cake without having crumbs.

No game is perfect. I was not around in the first two years of City Of Heroes, but it’s first two years were way different from how things were when it was shut down by NCSOFT.

Soft growl. I am going to log back into the game. Everyone is happy there.

Lisa.

Vayne.8563:

In my experience, most people who started this game in Guild Wars 1 feel this way to some degree, including me. I was more attached to my Guild Wars 1 characters than I am to my Guild Wars 2 characters. That said, some people I know who didn’t play Guild Wars 1 are attached to these characters.

And my attachment to certain characters has grown as I find more ways to “make them mine”.

But it still doesn’t feel the same was Guild Wars 1 did.

I never played Guild Wars 1 aside from watching friends play it once or twice because I was a WOW guy but they always looked like they were seriously having fun.

GW2 has always been cosmetic even from the start. Look at this pretty map, look at this pretty city, look at this pretty outfit. I got tired of paying for WOW and before this game came out it promised so much. But what I have learned is that GW2 really misses the simple fun moments you have in other games.

Like standing outside a dungeon with your friends and then suddenly 10 max level horde characters come out of no where and you all try and rush in and only one guy makes it in alive lol.

I have been waiting two years for that fun from this game.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

notorious bob.2061:

I’m not.

Gw2 is gathering dust.

And sadly, I found it really easy to walk away from.

Apparently you didn’t walk away from it as you are still here posting. If i left a game completely I would not even bother posting period. It sounds hypocritical.

Both games have their merits but i cant see myself going back once I did everything GW 1 had to offer. I have plenty games to play besides this one though, mostly mmos themselves, so I’m at no loss if I take a few weeks off of this.

As for attachment I felt more attached to my characters here than I did in GW 1. There was no RP guilds as far I knew. In GW 1 I pretty much got looks and stares.

Not a valid statement.

There are people who dislike the game but like the lore. I’m in that category as the last times I logged on were to complete the LS and have not since then. Before that it was for Scarlett and before that it had almost been 9 months since I logged in.

These forums are more entertaining than the game is.

BlackGhostz.2483:

These forums are more entertaining than the game is.

I lol’d. And I agree. On your previous post though, feel lucky, since GW1 players waited 5 years for this, but saying that, GW2 was never going to be that kind of game. Open world combat was ruled out since the start, but maybe , if they bring back the kurzciks/luxons it may appear in some form.

Scipio.3204:

BlackGhostz.2483:

These forums are more entertaining than the game is.

I lol’d. And I agree. On your previous post though, feel lucky, since GW1 players waited 5 years for this, but saying that, GW2 was never going to be that kind of game. Open world combat was ruled out since the start, but maybe , if they bring back the kurzciks/luxons it may appear in some form.

Im in that boat too, at least in the fact i barely log in anymore. I’m here in the hopes we get back on track.

Scipio.3204:

@Indigo

the other four is Hellfire, Radiant, and the two PvP exclusive sets, the one in the reward track and the tournament rewards

-I don’t know who ignored them , Maybe Galen when he listed the gemstore armors

- I agree with you, but he’s not entirely wrong. Even if they add 100% of the newly added items to the gemstore , some folk is going to say “But that doesn’t count as cash grab since you can earn it with gold”

Thanks, Scipio. I was viewing the Hellfire and Radiant as partials because the shoulders and gloves were all I’d seen. At my current rate of acquisition, I should get access to the chest sometime between 2022 and 2025, assuming I and the game are still going. I had forgotten the PvP sets.

I have no issue with ANet adding cash store cosmetics. I much prefer that to selling power in a game store, and the GW2 option to trade gold for gems does mean it is not exclusively cash gated. I do have an issue with the idea of any endgame that is not robust enough to hold player interest, and the GW2 cosmetic endgame is not.

munkiman.3068:

GW2 has 44 light armor sets. total sets for all weights approx 132. Including gem store.
GW1 has 254 gender sets (across all professions). Not including hero armor.

Also interesting to note that GW only had 5 pieces per set. And, as you pointed out, less complexity in the shaders.

Actually, they really aren’t pulling off a 2 week cycle, since they have breaks in between. Regardless, I think they bust there kittens just to pull off what they do. Pretty sure i’d be burned out after a year.

but gw2 doesnt just have light armor, it also has medium and heavy with some variations between human, asura and charr. At the end of the day it will not increase choice per-se but anet still need to create them and test them which obviously takes a lot of time.

Yes and No…. sure they’re have breaks now but they also increased the size of each living story release by a factor of 5 in order to please people who wanted a much faster pace for season 2 then season 1. Beside at the end of the day they just missed 1 release (counting feature pack as a valid content release) and they had to miss it anyway or else they would have severely disrupted the WvW tournament.

As for burning out, we dont know how they work exactly.. in season 1 each team had essentially 4 months to work on 2 living story releases. We’d see content every 2 weeks but devs didnt just get 2 weeks to do all that work… that would be impossible, they’d get 4 months which may or may not be enough time to work at a sane pace.

In season 2, i have no idea how they’re doing it. They said the 4 teams now joined into one and okey they had 4 months to create the equivalent of 16 releases season 1 .. that suggests double the pace of what they had before worst yet now they just have less then 2 months to do perhaps 16 more double the pace yet again…. Dont know how they’re doing it really! of course its entirely possible we’ll get a smaller stretch before they go on ls break? I dont know.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Galen Grey.4709:

= There were 5 new full armor sets added as a reward ingame.

Sorry, I am going to ask for details. I can think of 1, Ascended. Perhaps you’d list the other 4.

= dont think its fair to ignore all other skins just cause they’re not part of a full armor set.

Who’s ignoring them?

= there were 7 gem shop only skins but you can earn those doing nothing other then playing the game too so you may want to count them too.

More incremental rewards. Incremental rewards are one of the main reasons I rate the game’s rewards a D+.

Responses in italics.[/quote]

- The 5 armor sets are: Ascended (illustrious armor set), Glourious Armor, glorious Hero’s Armor, Radiant, Hellfire.

- Well the original statement was Anet did add a lot of skins to the game not just the cash shop but somehow that ended up a discussion limited to armor skins.

- Every reward in a game is incremental really. Just cause some use time instead of virtual currencies or token doesnt make them any less incremental.