Guild Wars 2

What gets me is that RNG has been used by other older game designers looooong looooong ago. So why is it in a game that’s supposed to be the evolution of MMO gaming entirely. It’s sortof like DR. Why is this game using tried and tested and failed systems of monetization and gameplay progression? Does anyone else notice these things? Why is this title like this if it’s been designed by gamers who should know this history because they lived it collectively at one time or another? Even the elephant in the room had to adopt a currency system to allow for progression in a much more definite way.

The thing I don’t understand is why they didn’t add T6 mats to the laurel or karma vendors outright, why have two more RNG systems in an already RNG saturated game.

alcopaul.2156:

I see many people hating on RNG.

BUT..

Life is based on RNG. Your conception was RNG. Out of 375 million sperm cells, one only get to fuse with one eggcell and formed you.

1/375000000. that’s still worse than the mystic forge.

Pointless argument. A game is not constricted to merely model reality, but to free us at least somewhat from its constraints. Besides, 374999999 alternate selves are not here to experience the displeasure of your described RNG, but there are a number here able to experience the displeasure of the mystic forge.

I play games to escape “life”.

RNG is a problem when it’s expensive.

When the costs become too heavy, it starts feeling like gambling. Gambling is unhealthy.

Daroon.1736:

I can’t think of one situation that occurs in-game that uses RNG that couldn’t be reworked to offer fixed rewards.

Mob Loot.

The game would become a complete grind if loot became… consistent.
The excitement of finding a rare on occasion is much more entertaining.

Heijincks.9267:

lisamee.2408:

RNG is a game breaker, especially if the majority of the game play is based on the RNG. Then add the lack of items to play for…and the RNG really is annoying plus no fun. Then add the diminished returns on top of that.

Only a game breaker if you’re building a legendary.

You mean the endgame of Gw2. It finally makes sense now why I don’t want to log in anymore, its broken.

DreamOfACure.4382:

RNG is a problem when it’s expensive.

When the costs become too heavy, it starts feeling like gambling. Gambling is unhealthy.

Daroon.1736:

I can’t think of one situation that occurs in-game that uses RNG that couldn’t be reworked to offer fixed rewards.

Mob Loot.

The game would become a complete grind if loot became… consistent.
The excitement of finding a rare on occasion is much more entertaining.

Yeah its so exciting going weeks and only getting blues and greens.

Kromica.2831:

Yeah its so exciting going weeks and only getting blues and greens.

Oh, classic. Using hyperbole to force your point across.

I get a Rare every 2~3 days, and I spend most of my time screwing around in Caledon Forest. If you aren’t, you’re probably not really trying. o_O

DreamOfACure.4382:

Kromica.2831:

Yeah its so exciting going weeks and only getting blues and greens.

Oh, classic. Using hyperbole to force your point across.

I get a rare every other day, and I spend most of my time screwing around in Caledon Forest. If you aren’t, you’re either not trying or doing something severely wrong. o_O

Before I stopped logging in I was play 6-8hrs a day doing events, dragons, dungeons and fractals and all I was getting was blues and greens. So please tell me how I wasn’t trying and how I was playing wrong.

i think it depend…for example when i was making clovers:

one try i got like 15 charged lodestones (i love RNG?)
in another try i got 10 cured leather dunno what worthless thing (i hate RNG?)

so summary it has been so long since i cared about RNG…so i took an arrow to the knee.

alcopaul.2156:

I see many people hating on RNG.

BUT..

Life is based on RNG. Your conception was RNG. Out of 375 million sperm cells, one only get to fuse with one eggcell and formed you.

1/375000000. that’s still worse than the mystic forge.

No one had to pay gold/silver for the 374999999 destroyed…… just sayin…..

I don’t hate RNG. That’s been around since Final Fantasy games were invented. It’s the diminishing returns that I am hating on.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Kromica.2831:

Yeah its so exciting going weeks and only getting blues and greens.

Oh, classic. Using hyperbole to force your point across.

I get a Rare every 2~3 days, and I spend most of my time screwing around in Caledon Forest. If you aren’t, you’re probably not really trying. o_O

I’ll assume you are not playing a level 1-15 character in Caledon, in which case aren’t you doing precisely what you accuse a system of ‘consistent’ rewards would create ie grinding? I don’t want to run my level 80 character around in a starter zone forever because I can kill more things quickly and thereby increase my chances of getting a ‘rare’ item – I want to play the game normally and ANY game mechanic that penalizes me from doing this is IMHO not being used correctly.

I would love to hear from a developer on why they feel that so many RNG elements within the game enhance the player experience.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Kromica.2831:

Yeah its so exciting going weeks and only getting blues and greens.

Oh, classic. Using hyperbole to force your point across.

I get a Rare every 2~3 days, and I spend most of my time screwing around in Caledon Forest. If you aren’t, you’re probably not really trying. o_O

Classic, making the assumption that everyone in a biased RNG system has the exact same experience. It’s been months since I’ve seen a Rare. And we might call it RNG but trust me, mathematically there’s nothing random about it, it’s not a truly random system when some get rares every interval and some get nothing for months.

But even if it were unbiased, there’s a point that’s reached when progression shouldn’t take 16 months to complete in a process (gaming) that’s supposed to be about enjoyment and fun.

phys.7689:

yea, this is a major problem, while GW had tons of ways to progress, various armors, skill hunting, challenge missions, improving campaign specific buffs, fighting endgame dungeons for skins, GW2 has one, and its primarily determined by rng. game needs more goals, on the high end, that have something rewarding (heck bring back skill hunting if anet wants the economy and gold earnings to be crappy forever)

There are various ways to progress in GW2 too. Just because people are only looking at the legendary weapons that doesn’t mean that’s the only way to progress. Various armors? 3 cultural sets, 3 order sets, crafted skins, karma armor skin and the named exotic sets. I don’t think we’re lacking armor skins. Skill hunting? Skill point challenges work the same way. You don’t go to a specific corner of the map to kill a boss to capture its elite skill, but you got to a specific corner of the map to kill a boss to capture a skill point. Challenge missions? I never actually did most of them, but if you want something equivalent there is keg brawl which is similar. Doing dungeons for skins? You can do the same thing in GW2 you can get unique skins with tokens. If you’re looking for more special skins there are the mystic forge exotics and if you say that the RNG for lodestones is bad, the RNG for weapon skins from end chest in GW1 dungeons was just as bad.

jwburks.9735:

I don’t hate RNG. That’s been around since Final Fantasy games were invented. It’s the diminishing returns that I am hating on.

But were the ultimate weapons RNG? Hmm…..
I do believe in most Final Fantasy’s there were stoic events that you had to complete or do something ridiculous hard to get the item. Using “everyone’s favorite” Final Fantasy 7, to get Clouds Ultimate Weapon you had to actually chase the " Ultimate Weapon" (the big dangerous dragon thing at the end of the game) around the world until you finally killed it to get Cloud’s sword as a drop. Note: Not a chance at the drop, but you get the sword as a drop for sure.

If the “lottery” aspects of progress towards a desired goal are the sole, or even primary means to achieve something the player perceives as important or necessary, then the lottery becomes un-fun.

Instead of the “oh, cool, I got a rare” when you toss four green things you didn’t need into the mystic forge, vs. the “oh, well, it was just four greens.” when it doesn’t, you get the !@&#(! mystic forge! I put 100 rare greatswords in, and still no !@#*&$!( precursor! reaction.

Anything with a substantial element of luck in it that’s required for progress on a major goal of the game (and legendaries are that – they even have their own spiffy icon on the login screen) really should be in addition to a more predictable path.

They do seem to have this figured out, as the “scavenger hunt” discussion would lead you to believe that something less lottery-like is coming, but to the extent that we’re still required to use the mystic forge’s wheel-of-“fun” to achieve things, there’s going to be dissatisfaction with the process.

you know why I hate it:

Today one of my guildies put 200 rare daggers in the forge and got 3 precursers (spark).

I putted in over 500 and got nothing…thats why I hate RNG :P

and yes its no joke

Gz

Winfernal.9208:

I can’t imagine myself enjoying MMOs this much without RNG. The excitement would be gone.. only straight-forward “goals”.

There’s definitely a sweet spot, though.

DreamOfACure.4382:

I get a Rare every 2~3 days, and I spend most of my time screwing around in Caledon Forest. If you aren’t, you’re probably not really trying. o_O

All the tiers below exotic are basically junk.

One of the biggest mysteries to me is why no developer had the insight to just consolidate all those junk tiers.

synch.2980:

They do seem to have this figured out, as the “scavenger hunt” discussion would lead you to believe that something less lottery-like is coming

I think that idea was floated only to calm the forums down.

Last I saw mention of it, and admittedly this is about a month ago, was an admission from Anet that they’ve done nothing more than briefly consider this as a cool idea.

Two groups of unhappy people are in this pile, each with their own axe to grind…

Group (A) Doesn’t want an RNG based solution at all – they would prefer reward be more linked to performance and their interpretation of “Skill”. I am yet to see any RPG that has this sorted out well – just a couple of niche e-sport contenders that are so noteworthy I can’t recall their names.

Group (B) Just doesn’t like the balance of the RNG – and I will go as far as to say that the RNG is designed to be somewhat frustrating. There is a RMT store competing with the RNG for your attention – and we don’t pay upkeep fees on the systems we use.

900 hours of my life for an in game weapon (example people keep coming back to) would make it worth more than most of your cars, 900 hours of “your time” might equate to whatever 1.3 months of welfare payments is valued at in your area.

And there is the crux – you can circumvent the RNG reasonably by PAYING TO PLAY THE GAME, problem solved and all the RNG-Grinding scrooges can fill out the spare slots in paying players’ groups.

Has your compulsive grinding helped me enjoy my night of fun gaming? Possibly!

thisolderhead.5127:

And there is the crux – you can circumvent the RNG reasonably by PAYING TO PLAY THE GAME, problem solved and all the RNG-Grinding scrooges can fill out the spare slots in paying players’ groups.

That’s genre suicide.

And also, you’re usually asked to pay way more than you would for the subscription game.

Genre suicide… it is the basic premise of a “Free to play supported by microtransactions” MMORPG at the moment – basically the only even nearly working business model. I know of people spending far more per month on mainly cosmetic items (STO is coming to mind, also LoTRO) than I used to on PLEX in EvE, which was still more than three WoW accounts, etc.

It is present in this game NOW, there are only a handful of things you cannot acquire via RMT paths – frankly all of us who support RMT as it stands today are subsidising the cheap grinders free game play.

I could argue that accepting the RNG is tilted against the grinder is the problem, the logic and economics behind that make more sense than paying ANY attention to a non-paying complainer.

thisolderhead.5127:

Genre suicide… it is the basic premise of a “Free to play supported by microtransactions” MMORPG at the moment -

But that’s not what I read in your statement which I quote. You seemed to suggest that they could take it further, that full blown P2W could work.

thisolderhead.5127:

basically the only even nearly working business model.

Barely surviving on the revenue generated by a small population used to have a different term – a dead MMO. Developers will come to realize this eventually, that F2P is no different than accepting a 100-200k subscription base, or maybe we’re here because they have and they realize that a populated MMO, even if 80% of the people don’t spend a dime, is more attractive than the alternative.

There always was a certain percentage of players who would never abandon their chosen MMO, no matter how bad it got, or how unlikely it was to ever receive additional developer attention. F2P calls on that same group of players, and has them voluntarily paying 2-3x the cost of their old subscription (incidentally, a $30-45 per month subscription MMO could work).

It’s great for making a traditionally “dead” game more lively by adding all those “filler” players you deride, but that’s about all its good for.

thisolderhead.5127:

frankly all of us who support RMT as it stands today are subsidising the cheap grinders free game play.

With that attitude, it’s no surprise you have to pay people to play with you.

The fine line between P2W and microtransactions is actually a false line if ANYTHING you can RMT can be sold, AND the game system allows you to trade the “Winning Items”. So if a definitition of “Winning” is an in game item chances are one can already P2W.

What is the problem with stating that anyone who uses a service without paying for it is being subsidised by those who do? I can up the ante on that and say a RMT store user should also get queued ahead of those who don’t pay at every opportunity in this game, they are better than the chunk of the population that generates no revenue while using resources, and complaining about the free stuff they are getting.

Actually your comments about filler players pretty much sums up the non-paying grinders, though it is nice to have all of the frothing ginders line up for an invite – you guys are so keen it is in fact clouding good judgement.

Daroon.1736:

Because it’s a completely unnecessary mechanism that randomly discriminates between players. I can’t think of one situation that occurs in-game that uses RNG that couldn’t be reworked to offer fixed rewards.

I’m curious as to how discrimination is random? By its nature, discrimination is very specific and targeted.

As for how to remove the extremity of the RNG, have the reward items be guaranteed in certain cases but the amounts be random. Or go in and tinker with the drop tables so they offer a higher reward more commonly. Such as, I dunno, making blues not drop out of a Claw of Jormag chest . . .

thisolderhead.5127:

What is the problem with stating that anyone who uses a service without paying for it is being subsidised by those who do?

The problem is that it’s that bare naked kind of truth nobody really wants to hear or consider as fact. Like “everything dies, even your parents”, or “that new car you signed a payment plan is going to cost you twice as much as the sticker price in the end and by the time you finish paying it off you will just have to get a new one”.

Or “your child is not a good actor enough to be in the school play”, “you sing like a drunken cow”, or anything Simon Cowell says.

I would love to hear from a developer on why they feel that so many RNG elements within the game enhance the player experience.

You don’t need a developer of this game to come out and explain anything.

The devs are working within research by behavioural psychs that (a cursory search of the internet could point you to) an accepted truth is humans gain a better dopamine response from occasional and inconsistent rewards than they would from predicable and regular rewards. This also works well establishing Stockholms… and probably “hardcore fanbases”.

I’ll translate for the slow: GW2 RNG = more happy juice in your brain than constant kittens for a month, though still probably less happy juice in the brain than regular exercise and good diet lol.

on what other MMO, we got a variant of mistic forge, but was in procents. and thowse procents where calculated based on server time, milliseconds.
So when ppl put an item with 25% chances, when you pressed “Combine”, server look at his timer, milliseconds and if the time was between 0-25, the combine was a succes. if was 26-99 the item fail. Of course many tried to ninja the server time, but with lag and everything youll be better off. Plus clock is something internal, is not normaly broadcast over the network, unless you make a special program, so I boubt they did ninja that thing in real time

RNG here got no ideea how it works but it do the work intended. I see an exotic greathsword is ~2.5 gold at tp, same as six months ago. Over all you all must admit is a preaty stabile economy. If was not for MF ppl just gather gold and one sword probably was 50gold by now.

if your not carefull inflation explode verry fast in games and once it did its no turning back…ever

thisolderhead.5127:

I would love to hear from a developer on why they feel that so many RNG elements within the game enhance the player experience.

You don’t need a developer of this game to come out and explain anything.

The devs are working within research by behavioural psychs that (a cursory search of the internet could point you to) an accepted truth is humans gain a better dopamine response from occasional and inconsistent rewards than they would from predicable and regular rewards. This also works well establishing Stockholms… and probably “hardcore fanbases”.

I’ll translate for the slow: GW2 RNG = more happy juice in your brain than constant kittens for a month, though still probably less happy juice in the brain than regular exercise and good diet lol.

It also is the sort of behavior that still keeps people who know about “Gambler’s Ruin” gambling at the casino or playing the lottery just for that chance . . .

Hellkaiser.6025:

Rieselle.5079:

Hellkaiser.6025:

^ the opposition to a skill-based system used by this, honestly made me want to vomit.

I guess that’s what they call thinking with your gut rather than your brain?
Feel free to actually post a considered argument.

You’re using disability, old age and infirmity as a basis for an argument that RNG is better because EVERYONE get’s screwed over equally… What more do I have to say to that? I find it PERSONALLY offensive, and nauseating. In a world where people play league of legends with a pen in their mouth and voice commands because they can’t rely on their arms, your misrepresentation of disabled people was quite honestly a horrendous and sickening thing to read… I’m not accusing you of doing it deliberately but you should re-think just what you said and how it can be taken up wrong.

Oh right, your beef with my statement is not the actual argument but the mentions of those groups. That’s fair enough, it’s not particularly politically correct. Hah, I almost listed “women” in there but managed to stop myself in time for that, at least.

Ok, so I withdraw those groups from my statement. This leaves people with lag and people who aren’t skilled at games for whatever reason.

The argument stands. A purely skill based system, especially one that enforces the rarities that currently exist, would basically make it impossible for most players to ever get their shiny.

Not only that, because skillful players are always skillful (whereas lucky players are not always lucky) it means that tiny group has access to all the rewards (ie. the top player can farm precursors every day), whereas an RNG system at least distributes its meager rewards across the population.

I have nothing against skill-based systems. The other games I play are fighting games, Dark/Demon’s Souls, Devil May Cry, Supreme Commander etc. Skill based systems are excellent for single player games, and also head-to-head competitive games.

But RNG systems are perfectly legitimate as well. It just has different game design goals than skill-based, and those goals are a better fit for a co-op PvE MMO.

I noticed something interesting in the months I’ve been fully clearing CoE.

Every single time got a lode, I’d get only 3 blues in the following chests for the remainder of the dungeon.
Every single time got a (worthless) named exotic off a champ or from a chest, I wouldn’t even get a core for the remainder of the dungeon.

“Random”, my kitten

Astralporing.1957:

Rieselle.5079:

Considering the single biggest influence of anyone’s life is where you were born and to which parents, I’d say life is pretty heavily influenced by RNG.

Not true. It’s no more random than the result of adding up two known numbers. Unless you are going to claim that if i were conceived by a pair of New Yorkers, only RNG will decide whether i’ll be born to them, or to some random pair in, say, Rwanda.

That’s a nonsensical argument. Let’s say the aformentioned Rwandan kid comes up to the New Yorker kid and says, “Why do you get to be born in a rich country, to american parents? Why did I get born in Rwanda, to my parents? Why? Why?”

I guess your answer to him would be, “Because the New Yorker is an American (maybe white) guy, and you’re a Rwandan (probably black) guy.” It’s almost a tautology. The New York kid was born to New York parents because he’s a New York kid.

But that’s beside the point. Usually such a question assumes the identity of a person (the “soul”, to use religious terms) is interchangeable and unrelated to the body.

So why did one soul end up in New York, and one soul end up in Rwanda?
Well, putting aside destiny, karma, god’s will and all that, it can only be RNG.

Astralporing.1957:

Rieselle.5079:

People hate RNG because they dont think things through properly.

Let’s assume ANet wants to keep the ratio of item rarities at a certain level (whether their intended ratio is correct is another debate.)[snip]

Oh, but that exactly is the problem. People are not really arguing about it being random. They are arguing about the chances that the RNG gives. So, people are really arguing that in their opinion the Anet’s intended ratio is NOT correct. It is not something for another debate, but the core of current discussion.

I completely agree with you, that the root of the problem is actually how accessible the items are. People would be perfectly fine with RNG if the rarest items had the sorts of rarity you might see in a single player RPG, where you could get almost anything in the game in a normal 60 hour playthrough.

But that’s not the topic of the thread. The thread is about RNG versus other systems such as time/grind-based (tokens) or skill-based.

Didn’t bother reading the entire thread, but example of horrible RNG was the Lost Shores weekend.

Rewards: 2g-300g (Very few examples of even more with 2 precursor drops).
We all did the same event. Yet some were rewarded 150 times more than most others all due to luck. Some might not be against that, but I when I go show off what I have accomplished, I’d like it to be based on what I managed to do rather than how lucky I’ve been.

Rieselle.5079:

Astralporing.1957:

Rieselle.5079:

Considering the single biggest influence of anyone’s life is where you were born and to which parents, I’d say life is pretty heavily influenced by RNG.

Not true. It’s no more random than the result of adding up two known numbers. Unless you are going to claim that if i were conceived by a pair of New Yorkers, only RNG will decide whether i’ll be born to them, or to some random pair in, say, Rwanda.

That’s a nonsensical argument. Let’s say the aformentioned Rwandan kid comes up to the New Yorker kid and says, “Why do you get to be born in a rich country, to american parents? Why did I get born in Rwanda, to my parents? Why? Why?”

I guess your answer to him would be, “Because the New Yorker is an American (maybe white) guy, and you’re a Rwandan (probably black) guy.” It’s almost a tautology. The New York kid was born to New York parents because he’s a New York kid.

Yes, exactly. Nothing random about it. It’s the same as asking why 2+2 equals 4, while 3+7 equals 10, and not the other way around.
The Rwandian kid in your example might think that it was random, but the real truth is that if he wasn’t born to his parents, he wouldn’t be born at all. Any kid born to a different parents would be a different person – there was never a chance for him to be born anywhere else.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Daroon.1736:

Because it’s a completely unnecessary mechanism that randomly discriminates between players. I can’t think of one situation that occurs in-game that uses RNG that couldn’t be reworked to offer fixed rewards.

I’m curious as to how discrimination is random? By its nature, discrimination is very specific and targeted.

As for how to remove the extremity of the RNG, have the reward items be guaranteed in certain cases but the amounts be random. Or go in and tinker with the drop tables so they offer a higher reward more commonly. Such as, I dunno, making blues not drop out of a Claw of Jormag chest . . .

Yes, personally I would favour a system where reward drops are fixed coin values based on a formula that takes into account your effective level v that of the creature. I would remove weapon and Armour drops completely thereby increasing the value of player crafted items and have Vendors selling Rare/Exotic stuff at prices that are constantly adjusted by demand.

Your Jormag chest for example would reward a set amount that roughly equated to a fixed percentage of the current selling price of a rare from a vendor.

Some of us are naturally unlucky when it comes to RNG. Take WoW for instance, there was a quest where one had to kill Yeti’s till one of them dropped a staff to turn in to the quest giver. I did that quest probably 8 times, and it never took less then 75 kills to get it, and as much as 400 kills, where as others in my guild would get it with in 10 kills.

I don’t know what it is, but for some of us, the universe hates us, so we get a lot of back luck when it comes to RNG, we tend to get more back luck then the average person.

alcopaul.2156:

I see many people hating on RNG.
Life is based on RNG.

No.
Random numbers is just a cheap way to fake complexity.

helladoom.4317:

alcopaul.2156:

I see many people hating on RNG.
Life is based on RNG.

No.
Random numbers is just a cheap way to fake complexity.

I think the RNG is a way to extend gameplay. In a single player game the drops and look locations can be fixed (or predominately fixed). The player progresses through the game, finds all the goodies, finishes the game and quits.

An MMO is designed around having you play for an indefinite period of time. One of the ways is by linking rewards to RNG. You can gather all the materials (also RNG) for a legendary, but you can’t get one until you get the precursor (very rare RNG drop) or buy one (save up for a long time).

Using this method you’ll play the game until you finally decide the button won’t ever give you a pellet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber) then you quit.

I think they should implement RNG to last step of making legendary weapon. You put in 3 gifts & precursor and you will get chance to obtain the legendary! Isn’t it cool? Maybe then people that are excited about this would finally wake up.

Spiky.8403:

I think they should implement RNG to last step of making legendary weapon. You put in 3 gifts & precursor and you will get chance to obtain the legendary! Isn’t it cool? Maybe then people that are excited about this would finally wake up.

Just because you can come up with worse systems doesn’t mean the current system isn’t bad.

In general, I think that ArenaNet is receptive to ideas to provide rewards in a non-RNG fashion that cannot be ground out by the hardcore in a couple of hours (as the laurels show). I think peoples energy is better spend thinking of those.

No matter what the developers do, someone is going to come on the forums and whine. I remember the first 2 weeks of release before DR people ran and instance continuously got all the gear then turn around and whine how there is nothing to do.

In most games, you had to deal with lockout timers+RNG to keep you playing, initially in this game you only had to deal with getting tokens. People complain how there is no endgame aka no redoing an instance once a week for a chance to get loot that you end up having to fight with up to 3 other players IF you are unlucky.

The point being someone is always going to complain. The good thing is the people that complain are complaining about something that is not required. I got my full exotic 1 week after hitting 80 at release, that is way faster than it took me to get gear up in an MMO.

Now people are trying to say life isn’t full of RNG and that is stupid. The road you share with random people is controlled to some degree by RNG, somedays everything is nice and other days you get a person DUI. You get born as a child some improvised nation or you get born as bill gates son. In both case non of this outcome are controlled by you.

alcopaul.2156:

I see many people hating on RNG.

Snip

I only hate the RNG because it seems to hate me…:( and ive been nothing but nice..

helladoom.4317:

alcopaul.2156:

I see many people hating on RNG.
Life is based on RNG.

No.
Random numbers is just a cheap way to fake complexity.

No.
See my earlier post regarding human psychology of rewards.

Though if you replace the word “complexity” with “variety”, and “cheap” with “simple and effective” you are closer to correct, but again all of this is moot – the RNG implementations in most parts of GW2 is designed to nudge you towards RMT and being a contributing member of the community.

I’m going to go one further here too – DR (in part) also punishes players for being cheap and attempting to grind their way around chipping in a few bucks for the upkeep of game.

DreamOfACure.4382:

RNG is a problem when it’s expensive.

When the costs become too heavy, it starts feeling like gambling. Gambling is unhealthy.

Daroon.1736:

I can’t think of one situation that occurs in-game that uses RNG that couldn’t be reworked to offer fixed rewards.

Mob Loot.

The game would become a complete grind if loot became… consistent.
The excitement of finding a rare on occasion is much more entertaining.

Gambling is not unhealthy.

It is for you wallet.

thisolderhead.5127:

I’m going to go one further here too – DR (in part) also punishes players for being cheap and attempting to grind their way around chipping in a few bucks for the upkeep of game.

Or it’s meant to do exactly what they said – to get people to not just farm one area over and over and over and get them to change zones.

DarcShriek.5829:

Gambling is not unhealthy.

Correct, gambling is not unhealthy, and neither is butter, or sodium, or really cheesy movies. The key to all of that is moderation – if you’re not taking care to balance out this stuff, it gets out of hand and THEN it becomes unhealthy.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

It is for you wallet.

Say what you will, I never gamble with any money I can’t afford to part with already.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

It is for you wallet.

Not for mine it isn’t.

Only if you are bad at it… which humans generally are.

Gamble for a 5% win from most popular games and you will be able to obtain it relatively consistently. That doesn’t help those gamblers who are trying to turn their $100 into a fortune, but for those who are looking at making an income from $1,000,000 it can be quite easy and safer than stocks or money markets.

Or it’s meant to do exactly what they said – to get people to not just farm one area over and over and over and get them to change zones.

Sorry – I should have stated that what some players feel is an unwanted side effect may in fact be “working as intended”, DR making targetted grinding far less viable and RMT more attractive again.

BTW – I am OK with RMT and paying to support devs/artists for their work.

I’m okay with RMT in the way it’s done here and in other free games I play. Where you can play well enough without it, and spending the premium currency while an attractive option, isn’t absolutely necessary. (And of course, in a couple games there is an option to do things to earn that currency or the rewards purchased with it without actually shelling out cash.) If you do pay for stuff, then you support the people developing the game for having a nice game. Or you can not do it, and play it just as well.

I’ll name drop “Battle Nations” on iOS/Mac which is a combination city-management and turn based strategy game. The premium currency can be used to buy extra-efficient resource gathering, purchase marginally more powerful units, and in general skip over the waiting for things to complete.

Heck I’ll name drop another game I remember from way way when I was in high school: “Legend of the Green Dragon”. I think it’s still running.

thisolderhead.5127:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

GW2’s Random Number Generator (RNG) is not completely random per say (i.e. pseudorandom), because it is based on code; an algorithm. The only true RNG, in terms of spitting out random values, is when you CPU fails and gives errors. Instead of giving zeros and ones it starts to give other numbers. I forgot what the test was but it involved physically failing the CPU so it generated errors which gave random numbers – this was a true RNG.

Did you just honestly try to say that a pseduorandom number generator as is used by GW2 lacks the randomness required for a GAME?

By the way – most true random number generators are not “broken CPU” based, do you just make kitten up for the internet in your spare time?

LOL I suggest you read into pseudorandom generators and algorithms, specifically look up the term pseudo.

Also, computers are based on logical inputs which give logical outputs depending on the parameters set in the algorithm. Have a read:

- http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question697.htm
- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/13/windows_random_number_gen_flawed/

Oh and here is good old wiki:

“There are two principal methods used to generate random numbers. One measures some physical phenomenon that is expected to be random and then compensates for possible biases in the measurement process. The other uses computational algorithms that can produce long sequences of apparently random results, which are in fact completely determined by a shorter initial value, known as a seed or key. The latter type are often called pseudorandom number generators.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation#.22True.22_random_numbers_vs._pseudorandom_numbers

Siiighhhhh… /FF