Guild Wars 2

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

They should if they’ve played the game long enough to know how the game works. Regardless, GW2 has never hid the fact that it’s not a traditional MMO. If a customer doesn’t look into the details of the game they’re about to buy, then that’s on them.

Ansau.7326:

This is a feature of Gw2, not a flaw. The purpose of this feature is, precisely, to make low level maps interesting for uplevel people, and to eliminate the easiness and dullness of playing those maps at such high levels.

Don’t make the mistake to say it fails miserably because you aren’t able to play unless low level mobs hit you 1 while you one shot them.

You don’t like it? It’s okay, and out there there are 1562374382364854 games they will allow to do what you like. But that doesn’t mean the feature is bad. What only shows your opinion isn’t based on solid arguments.

So you either reconsider the feature and start playing with it, or move on and play another game. All this drama you’re putting is pointless and wastes your precious time of your live. Be smart.

I’m not creating any drama.

It’s an opinion. That’s it. If you don’t agree with it, fine. It’s simple!

Have a nice day

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

This is a valid question: what gives you the right to decide to change an MMO so drastically as to make higher levels meaningless in lower level regions?

My answer:

NOTHING

No one had to give them the right. No game developer is 100% beholden to the conventions of the genre their game fits into. Anet wanted to try something new, and so they did. They also had every right to do so. You’re allowed to not like it, but Anet didn’t commit some cardinal sin by trying something new.

Also, higher level player abilities not meaningless if you actually actively play. If you prefer to stand there with your thumb up your backside, then yeah, you’re going to be kicked in the face by the low level mobs.

That’s the thing. I’ve got a level 80 with berserker gear who can stand as still as a tree and not die when I actively press 1 in the level 15 zones. Don’t even have to use my heal skill or any of my other attacks.

Makes me wonder if he thinks he should just be able to literally look at the enemy and it drop dead if he’s having trouble killing level 15 enemies with a level 80.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

This is a valid question: what gives you the right to decide to change an MMO so drastically as to make higher levels meaningless in lower level regions?

My answer:

NOTHING

Incorrect. It’s ANet’s game, they have the right to do whatever they want with it. It’s fine for you to have the opinion that MMO’s ought to be the way you want them to, but there is no MMO Bible where it is engraved that MMO’s have to be a certain way.

Had ANet not advertised down-scaling, had they just sprung it on unsuspecting players, I might have some sympathy for you. As it is, it seems like you made assumptions rather than looking up what the game was like.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

Why not? No, seriously … why would I want to WASTE my time in a zone doing something where there is no value playing there? Does one-shotting mobs with your auto attack challenge you?

Sartharina.3542:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Fluffball.8307:

What’s especially hysterical is this guy is talking about core Tyria maps. Er, ya. Level 80 maps are a joke in core Tyria and this guy can’t handle Wayfarer Foothills.

I hate it when people cry troll to anyone with a dissenting opinion, but I think that’s what this is.

How am I cry trolling?

I have my own beliefs about what type of progression system an MMORPG (and especially gw – since I’m a fan of the first instalment) should follow.

And, frankly, your beliefs are not in line with either the developers nor vast majority of the player base’s… and frankly, looking at how other RPGs are going, especially tabletop, it’s starting to look like the whole genre is moving away from “Nothing but bigger numbers” to a more horizontal progression system.

Unfortunately, you must be right – regarding the horizontal progression.

But where you mentioned the vast majority of the player base – I think you might be stretching it quite a bit. I believe the current fan-base are those who dissented against true MMO’s, or who haven’t played the original GW, or who haven’t played any MMO at all before this instalment. Those who “ran away” from gw2 after first spying it were not going to be led in the new direction.

:)

Agemnon.4608:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The last time one of my max levels got killed by a low level mob…….I’m not sure actually when that was. Probably from doing something like yolo-running into a group of vets and friends. Other than that, you really shouldn’t be dying that often in the low level areas. I suggest you check your traits and your build.

I’m not in any danger of dying “often”, or “quickly”, in low-level areas…well, I think.

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

Maybe the issue was lag or rendering so you were hit with the attack before it registered on your monitor?

That’s funny!

Nope – my observant eyes did not deceive me

This isn’t a question of ‘true’ MMO’s, if GW2 isn’t ‘true’, then I’m all for playing false MMO’s from now on. If people don’t like the game, they don’t have to play it and don’t worry, I don’t think those players will be missed either. Anet’s goal isn’t to keep you as a player if you aren’t satisfied with the fundamental features of the game. They offer a service; that core service is not tailored to every player just to keep them happy.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Sartharina.3542:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Fluffball.8307:

What’s especially hysterical is this guy is talking about core Tyria maps. Er, ya. Level 80 maps are a joke in core Tyria and this guy can’t handle Wayfarer Foothills.

I hate it when people cry troll to anyone with a dissenting opinion, but I think that’s what this is.

How am I cry trolling?

I have my own beliefs about what type of progression system an MMORPG (and especially gw – since I’m a fan of the first instalment) should follow.

And, frankly, your beliefs are not in line with either the developers nor vast majority of the player base’s… and frankly, looking at how other RPGs are going, especially tabletop, it’s starting to look like the whole genre is moving away from “Nothing but bigger numbers” to a more horizontal progression system.

Unfortunately, you must be right – regarding the horizontal progression.

But where you mentioned the vast majority of the player base – I think you might be stretching it quite a bit. I believe the current fan-base are those who dissented against true MMO’s, or who haven’t played the original GW, or who haven’t played any MMO at all before this instalment. Those who “ran away” from gw2 after first spying it were not going to be led in the new direction.

:)

You’re entitled you your opinion of course Cedric, but the level scaling and “whole game is relevant at max level” were major advertised features of GW2 before even launch, and leveling just plain doesn’t confer power on that scale in this franchise.

However, keep in mind it goes both ways. You scale down to the area, but the area’s loot scales up to you. You can go kill that L15 ice elemental and get L70-80 drops because of that same system. Leveling only exists in GW2 as a training and tutorial mechanism. This isn’t like many other MMOs where the whole point of the game is endlessly stacking stats, then having your stats suck again after the next expansion. When you reach top tier level and gear in GW2, that’s it. You’re done in terms of power.

That’s how it worked in GW1, and that’s how it works in GW2. Go kit yourself out in ascended gear with full +5 infusions and your gear is done. Not done until the next expansion, but actually done. The Challenge and reward systems in this franchise have always been about trophies rather than artifical roadblocks. The people that stick with the series like that. The people that hate the series often hate that as the first thing.

Its simply a matter of taste, but keep in mind you’re on a forum full of mostly people that stick around because they like that system.

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I have the best armour and stats at the moment, and i’m happy with everything. But I just sat back in horror as I watched a level 15 icebrood elemental in a low-level region remove half my health in a few seconds.

If they ever decide to make a gw3 I hope they get rid of that stupid scaling system, because it really makes the game look like child’s play.

Even if my health suddenly drops from 20k to 1.5k, I would expect a low level enemy to struggle against a level 80. My suspicion is that levels are actually meaningless in this game.

I’ve posted on this topic before, and I’m posting again because this is something that is still bugging me.

ADDENDUM: some of these mobs are actually killing me quicker than level 80 mobs.

So wait a minute; the down scaling of your character in low level zones is childs play, but some mobs are killing you faster than a level 80 zone would? I think that says more about the player than the game. I have no issues, even WITH downscaling. Frankly, I don’t think we are downscaled enough if the intention is to make our level of play competitive with a character of the intended level for the zone.

Levels are simply a measure of progression and the fact that Anet finally separated progression from power says quite a bit about how Anet is testing new waters with this game. As you have experienced, the down scaling is there for a reason; to retain the relevance of those zones for ALL players, regardless of level. You might like only having a few zones relevant to you at level 80 because that’s the MMO’s we were all brought up on; I always felt it was stupid. Lots of MMO’s have much to learn from GW2 in some areas and this is one of them.

I’m not going to argue your feelings are right or wrong. I’m just going to tell you that this is how the game is designed, complaining about it is pointless and if it bothers you THAT much, don’t go in those zones or go back to the antiquated MMO’s you’re used to.

You’re harsh.

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

Why not? No, seriously … why would I want to WASTE my time in a zone doing something where there is no value playing there? Does one-shotting mobs with your auto attack challenge you?

So what exactly do you get from killing an enemy npc in a low level region?

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

Why not? No, seriously … why would I want to WASTE my time in a zone doing something where there is no value playing there? Does one-shotting mobs with your auto attack challenge you?

So what exactly do you get from killing an enemy npc in a low level region?

(Almost) the exact same challenge and loot I get when I play in a level 80 region. Anet hasn’t got the balance equalized properly, but it’s better than token resistance. Honest question:

Do you get value for your money steamrolling mobs in low level zones? I know I don’t.

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

Why not? No, seriously … why would I want to WASTE my time in a zone doing something where there is no value playing there? Does one-shotting mobs with your auto attack challenge you?

So what exactly do you get from killing an enemy npc in a low level region?

Almost the exact same challenge and loot I get when I play in a level 80 region.

That sounds like a conflict.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

Why not? No, seriously … why would I want to WASTE my time in a zone doing something where there is no value playing there? Does one-shotting mobs with your auto attack challenge you?

So what exactly do you get from killing an enemy npc in a low level region?

You get drops scaled up to your level, but crafting resources appropriate for the level of the area.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Obtena.7952:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I can easily kill those npcs, but it’s the fact that I saw my health bar draining to somewhere mid-way which shocked me. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

I’m level 80, the monster is level 15!

You’ve played this game long enough to get at least one character to 80, and so I assume you must know how to dodge. Or how to use your class to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from the hit. If you’re an 80 in exotics, you won’t have any trouble against a level 15 mob (assuming you’re in a zone that downlevels you to within a level of 15) as long as you actively participate in the combat.

As for “it shouldn’t be allowed”, it’s Anet’s game. It should be allowed in their game because they want it to be allowed. And that choice of Anet’s appeals to many of us.

No GW2 customer should be expected to absorb/evade/mitigate the damage from an enemy npc if they are nearly 4 times above their level.

Why not? No, seriously … why would I want to WASTE my time in a zone doing something where there is no value playing there? Does one-shotting mobs with your auto attack challenge you?

So what exactly do you get from killing an enemy npc in a low level region?

Almost the exact same challenge and loot I get when I play in a level 80 region.

That sounds like a conflict.

Maybe, but it’s a widely accepted one that works and there are no rules that Anet needs to adhere to when making their game. The fact is that it exists, it’s intended and based on the success of the game, it’s not a major negative factor to the people that play it.

Again, if that conflict is so significant to you, don’t go in those zones or perhaps leave the game. Remember, you’re complaining about a core feature of the game that veterans of this game like or at a minimum, are neutral to. You aren’t going to find much consensus for your problem.

Furthermore, this is the second time you’ve posted about this or a similar issue IIRC and I have to wonder what your purpose is here because this is not going to be removed. If anything, it would be ideal to have better downscaling because a number of things are not taken into account when it happens. What’s impressive if that you indicate a level of difficulty in these zones with your level 80 character. That shouldn’t be the case since downscaling is only partial. Someone jokingly mentioned it’s a L2P issue. I can’t help that was only partially intended as a joke.

Even World of Warcraft is seeing the value of level scaling and is putting this feature in its newest expansion.

World of Warcraft: Legion introduces zones that scale in level

It appears that this feature is even more popular that one might think. Enough that an older game such as WoW with “God Mode at low levels” for all these years is going to try it out.

It’s an opinion. That’s it. If you don’t agree with it, fine. It’s simple!

Dont you realize that exaclty every people on this topic dont agree with your opinion ? Don’t you think you should admit that you are probably wrong if dozens of people disagree with you ?

And about “true” MMORPG …. A MMO is massivly multiplayer online game, and a RPG is a role playing game. None of this concept are implying that you should be able to oneshot low lvl. Each game has his rules. GW2 is a game where 100% of the content is still relevant when you are a max lvl, and “bizarrely” 99,9999999999999% of the players are happy with that (you guessed I think that you are the 0,0000000000000001% that have the “true”, the “good” opinion about what is a true MMORPG).

Any company that doesn’t do it is devaluing a huge part of their assets. The other thing I like about it is that Anet can put new content into those lower zones and keep it interesting instead of developing a whole new area. It’s a very smart way to recycle old content.

Guys. Obviously OPs mind belongs to mordremoth now. This negativity he is going on and on about resembles Scarlet and her trolling. Anyway peace out OP go find another game. No sense playing a game you don’t like. That is crazy.

The only time I die on lower level maps is because I went AFK or was absolutely not watching were I went. I don’t understand how you could get 1 or 2 shot in a low level map by anything other than a champion, not even a vet would kill you so easily. If you are new to this game and don’t understand the difference between a champ and a vet perhaps the trouble is that you haven’t mastered how it works. I am not saying that to be snarky, there are problems with this game, the scaling system isn’t one of those problems

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Baamoink.4281:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

You are clearly not a true MMORPG fan then.

What exactly is a ‘true MMORPG fan’?

I enjoy the scaling, because then I can jump in with a friend who’s at a lower level, and not one shot everything before they get a chance to tag anything. No fun for them.

In a true MMO your friend will start to have fun when he reaches your level, or close.

So, you’re saying that a True MMO is designed to NOT be fun? I am so glad the True MMO genre is dying off so fast.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Sartharina.3542:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Fluffball.8307:

What’s especially hysterical is this guy is talking about core Tyria maps. Er, ya. Level 80 maps are a joke in core Tyria and this guy can’t handle Wayfarer Foothills.

I hate it when people cry troll to anyone with a dissenting opinion, but I think that’s what this is.

How am I cry trolling?

I have my own beliefs about what type of progression system an MMORPG (and especially gw – since I’m a fan of the first instalment) should follow.

And, frankly, your beliefs are not in line with either the developers nor vast majority of the player base’s… and frankly, looking at how other RPGs are going, especially tabletop, it’s starting to look like the whole genre is moving away from “Nothing but bigger numbers” to a more horizontal progression system.

Unfortunately, you must be right – regarding the horizontal progression.

But where you mentioned the vast majority of the player base – I think you might be stretching it quite a bit. I believe the current fan-base are those who dissented against true MMO’s, or who haven’t played the original GW, or who haven’t played any MMO at all before this instalment. Those who “ran away” from gw2 after first spying it were not going to be led in the new direction.

:)

They can be free to hide in their P2W grindfests where nothing matters at all.
“If you like MMO’s, you should check out Guild Wars 2. If you DON’T like MMO’s, you definitely should check out Guild Wars 2” – ArenaNet’s Marketing of the game.

No, Guild Wars 2 isn’t a “Classic” MMO – it’s better than the classics of yore. It is a game that provides meaningful progression, but in a manner that doesn’t lock you out of content. Others brought up WoW. The biggest complaint I’ve seen over on their forums is a “lack of content” – Yet WoW is the biggest MMO on the market, with more content than any other game out there. And yet… it’s all left behind, and absolutely meaningless because of the leveling system (Did you know it had a zone full of Dinosaurs? And there are a lot of interesting questlines – like blowing up a mountain range!)

An MMO is about progressing in a massive, mostly-persistent world shared with others – nothing more, nothing less. Guild Wars 2 excels in that regard with its world, and the ability to play with anyone you meet, regardless of level, and a sense of progression in trait/stat/skill acquisition, on top of gear grinds for exotic skins and desired stat combinations.

So what exactly do you get from killing an enemy npc in a low level region?

A suitable challenge while following unique storylines and world exploration. The ability to play with other people without completely eclipsing them to the point it stops being fun for either of us, crafting materials for ascended and legendary weapons and armor, the ability to revisit fun events and challenges at any time, instead of being forced to roll a new character and enjoy for only the brief window of time it’s available…

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Ehecatl.9172:

As a great Namekian once said.

Why. Didn’t. You. DOOOOOOODGE?!

I shouldn’t have to.

Actually you definitely should have to. Do you know what happens to the mighty, powerful barbarian who has won a thousand battles if a small child with a knife stabs him and he actively chooses not to avoid it?

He dies.

I like a bit of realism in my games, and this system greatly encourages that and allows me to further immerse myself in the world. Being able to stand perfectly still, naked, and punch out an entire army of heavily armed thugs with swords breaks that immersion for me. Just because I’ve progressed beyond a zone doesn’t mean I couldn’t be in any danger if I return. These are fighters and monsters we’re dealing with. Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.

And I still feel a strong sense of progression. With my better gear it is a LOT easier for me to plow through the old content than it was when I was of the appropriate level. I am still much stronger. I hit harder, can take more punishment, and have a huge array of skills and a fully functioning trait layout that all go toward making my character more powerful. And on top of all that I am a much better player than I was back then, so mechanics that once felt difficult or even unfair are now a casual cakewalk for me to dance around and defeat.

But for all my character’s improved stats, superior versatility in skills, and fully functioning build I can’t completely zone out and win a fight. The enemies still demand my attention. If I make a crucial mistake I can still lose. But playing to the best of my ability, or really even half that, there is nothing in the old world zones short of world bosses that I can’t take down.

Sartharina.3542:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Sartharina.3542:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Fluffball.8307:

What’s especially hysterical is this guy is talking about core Tyria maps. Er, ya. Level 80 maps are a joke in core Tyria and this guy can’t handle Wayfarer Foothills.

I hate it when people cry troll to anyone with a dissenting opinion, but I think that’s what this is.

How am I cry trolling?

I have my own beliefs about what type of progression system an MMORPG (and especially gw – since I’m a fan of the first instalment) should follow.

And, frankly, your beliefs are not in line with either the developers nor vast majority of the player base’s… and frankly, looking at how other RPGs are going, especially tabletop, it’s starting to look like the whole genre is moving away from “Nothing but bigger numbers” to a more horizontal progression system.

Unfortunately, you must be right – regarding the horizontal progression.

But where you mentioned the vast majority of the player base – I think you might be stretching it quite a bit. I believe the current fan-base are those who dissented against true MMO’s, or who haven’t played the original GW, or who haven’t played any MMO at all before this instalment. Those who “ran away” from gw2 after first spying it were not going to be led in the new direction.

:)

They can be free to hide in their P2W grindfests where nothing matters at all.
“If you like MMO’s, you should check out Guild Wars 2. If you DON’T like MMO’s, you definitely should check out Guild Wars 2” – ArenaNet’s Marketing of the game.

No, Guild Wars 2 isn’t a “Classic” MMO – it’s better than the classics of yore. It is a game that provides meaningful progression, but in a manner that doesn’t lock you out of content. Others brought up WoW. The biggest complaint I’ve seen over on their forums is a “lack of content” – Yet WoW is the biggest MMO on the market, with more content than any other game out there. And yet… it’s all left behind, and absolutely meaningless because of the leveling system (Did you know it had a zone full of Dinosaurs? And there are a lot of interesting questlines – like blowing up a mountain range!)

An MMO is about progressing in a massive, mostly-persistent world shared with others – nothing more, nothing less. Guild Wars 2 excels in that regard with its world, and the ability to play with anyone you meet, regardless of level, and a sense of progression in trait/stat/skill acquisition, on top of gear grinds for exotic skins and desired stat combinations.

So what exactly do you get from killing an enemy npc in a low level region?

A suitable challenge while following unique storylines and world exploration. The ability to play with other people without completely eclipsing them to the point it stops being fun for either of us, crafting materials for ascended and legendary weapons and armor, the ability to revisit fun events and challenges at any time, instead of being forced to roll a new character and enjoy for only the brief window of time it’s available…

Uhmm, this does nothing to persuade me…

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

SkyShroud.2865:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I have the best armour and stats at the moment, and i’m happy with everything. But I just sat back in horror as I watched a level 15 icebrood elemental in a low-level region remove half my health in a few seconds.

If they ever decide to make a gw3 I hope they get rid of that stupid scaling system, because it really makes the game look like child’s play.

Even if my health suddenly drops from 20k to 1.5k, I would expect a low level enemy to struggle against a level 80. My suspicion is that levels are actually meaningless in this game.

I’ve posted on this topic before, and I’m posting again because this is something that is still bugging me.

Here the question.

I am puzzled, why is it child’s play when you are annoyed about not able to one-hit kill a supposedly lower level monster. Isn’t it because you feel the need to be godlike? If that is the case, you should try korean mmorpg. Of course, please do not complain about grinding and pvpish environment because power come with a price. Otherwise, you still have single player game, you can use cheat code.

I love complaining

Thanks for confirming it as a self-entitled demand. I guess we can close the thread.

Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.

They do if you become sufficiently durable. In Dragon Ball for example Goku becomes stronger by the season. If Super Saiyan Blue Goku went back to the first episode Raditz would be so far outclassed that he’d endanger himself by hitting him.

Levels in RPGs are the equivalent of DBZ power levels. Sure you don’t gain enough stats to become a moon buster but a base toughness of 5 may correlate to an average person whereas a base toughness of 20 means you’re bulletproof to regular bullets, but still as fragile as a wet paper bag compared to endgame level dragons.

But how to justify levels from a lore standpoint in Guild Wars 2? Maybe we can justify it as we’re back in time and each level represents a different place in our timeline whereas level 80 represents us in the present at our strongest. The polar bears of low level zones are no longer dangerous to our present selves, but they’re dangerous to our past level 10 selves and whenever we visit that map we’re effectively going back in time canonically.

LOL this is why GW2 “fails”? This scaling system is here to stay bro.

Scaling is one of the best things about GW2. Every time my husband tries a new game, one of the first questions I ask is if they have scaling. He always says no and I always say that they should learn from GW2.

I know I shouldn’t throw food under bridges, but as a lot of this thread has been about definitions and the OP clearly has misused a term and continues not to understand why it is the wrong term for his/her concern (perhaps English is not his/her native language), here is a nice standard definition:

" Full Definition of child’s play
1
: an extremely simple task or act
2
: something that is insignificant <figuring out the password was child’s play>"

from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/child's%20play

So when you complain that it’s “child’s play” for you to be downscaled you’re saying it’s making it far easier to survive, making it trivial. Which is not what you mean to say at all.

Unless you mean it’s helping the mobs out by making it child’s play for them to eat you when you stand still and let them?

We need more scaling, not less. Even with scaling the low level areas are way to easy for a fully geared 80.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Randulf.7614:

Scaling keeps low level maps relevant. Having gone back to Lotro recently only to find 90% of the game irrelevant, it just feels wasted.

It’s a huge and outstanding feature of the game and I’m extremely happy we have it.

I think the opposite: I find it does more harm than good to my gaming experience.

Then it is likely this is not an MMO that will appeal to you long term, since it is vastly enhancing and enriching hundreds of thousands of players. I’ve played many MMO’s for 12 years. They all have their own individual selling points, but no MMO should be following a set rule or definition. Anet designed their game to break pre-conceived boundaries because that’s what video games should do.

Does GW2 work with it’s scaling system? Unfailingly. It’s by far and away one of the biggest draws to this game and it will never be something that will change. I make few guarantees about a games future, this however is one of them. GW2 would fall apart without it, since it cannot keep zones and bosses and events and a living world relevant without it.

If you don;t like it, that is fine. If you don’t think it should exist, that’s fine. Will it exist? Always, so the question is not whether they should change it, but whether you are willing to adapt to it.

It’s the same argument people have used to defend D&D rping versus countless other fantasy rpgs. Despite the opposing styles between say D&D and Savage Worlds tabletop rping, they are both “true rpgs” to use your vernacular. The same is true of GW2 vs Everquest. Both are “true” MMO’s, they just approach it in different ways.

And you know what? That’s actually a good thing.

In my humble opinion, GW2 scaling is about perfect. At level 80, I want and expect to have a easier time in low level areas. But I don’t want it so easy that I have no chance of dying.

Why this person is having trouble at level 80 and fully upgraded gear, is beyond me.

I’m a terrible player. My reflexes are so bad, I do not dodge ( by time I realize I need to its too late). My fingers are so uncoordinated, I not only use the mouse for movement, I use the mouse cursor for selecting my skills.

Having said all that, I do just fine. There is almost nothing I can’t do in regular PVE. Certainly a few icebrood elementals won’t slow me down.

On the off chance you ran into that mob near where the Maw meta event starts…..well that could explain it. Few people could take on that group solo.

Agemnon.4608:

Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.

They do if you become sufficiently durable. In Dragon Ball for example Goku becomes stronger by the season. If Super Saiyan Blue Goku went back to the first episode Raditz would be so far outclassed that he’d endanger himself by hitting him.

Levels in RPGs are the equivalent of DBZ power levels. Sure you don’t gain enough stats to become a moon buster but a base toughness of 5 may correlate to an average person whereas a base toughness of 20 means you’re bulletproof to regular bullets, but still as fragile as a wet paper bag compared to endgame level dragons.

But how to justify levels from a lore standpoint in Guild Wars 2? Maybe we can justify it as we’re back in time and each level represents a different place in our timeline whereas level 80 represents us in the present at our strongest. The polar bears of low level zones are no longer dangerous to our present selves, but they’re dangerous to our past level 10 selves and whenever we visit that map we’re effectively going back in time canonically.

Yaaaah. No. Power level bullkitten has no place in a traditional fantasy setting. I only tolerate it in games like WoW because it’s purely a game mechanic and not part of the lore.

Nothing in the lore states that your character’s skin got harder because you leveled up. It doesn’t happen in the world.

Levels in GW2 simply represent us gaining experience that is used to unlock new traits and skills. Learning new tricks to overcome our opponents and becoming stronger without becoming flat out superhuman.

Who would’a thought that experience points can actually represent experience in a game.

Agemnon.4608:

Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.

They do if you become sufficiently durable. In Dragon Ball for example Goku becomes stronger by the season. If Super Saiyan Blue Goku went back to the first episode Raditz would be so far outclassed that he’d endanger himself by hitting him.

Levels in RPGs are the equivalent of DBZ power levels. Sure you don’t gain enough stats to become a moon buster but a base toughness of 5 may correlate to an average person whereas a base toughness of 20 means you’re bulletproof to regular bullets, but still as fragile as a wet paper bag compared to endgame level dragons.

But how to justify levels from a lore standpoint in Guild Wars 2? Maybe we can justify it as we’re back in time and each level represents a different place in our timeline whereas level 80 represents us in the present at our strongest. The polar bears of low level zones are no longer dangerous to our present selves, but they’re dangerous to our past level 10 selves and whenever we visit that map we’re effectively going back in time canonically.

It is the reason i stop reading dragonball combat right after the first super saiyan mode is out. The story us getting stupid, the number of the energy level is overdone. I love the 7 dragonball series where fighting tactics is important, instead of unlimited powerceep in the story.

The level scaling is perfectly fine, reason?

A traditional mmo a maxed lv player is limited to have meaningful combat in endgame zone only, while GW2 a maxed lv player, the whole game any map can have meaning combat. GW2 have some flaws, but this is a feature that make GW2 GREAT.

isn’t child’s play something that’s incredibly easy

so if a mob is killing you even with all the advantages you have at such an extreme downscale

the game isn’t easy
it’s hard

so how is this child’s play?

surely going back to stomp baby mobs as a level 80 is child’s play?

ananda.5946:

Scaling is one of the best things about GW2. Every time my husband tries a new game, one of the first questions I ask is if they have scaling. He always says no and I always say that they should learn from GW2.

Somehow, I find your story hard to believe.

Donari.5237:

I know I shouldn’t throw food under bridges, but as a lot of this thread has been about definitions and the OP clearly has misused a term and continues not to understand why it is the wrong term for his/her concern (perhaps English is not his/her native language), here is a nice standard definition:

" Full Definition of child’s play
1
: an extremely simple task or act
2
: something that is insignificant <figuring out the password was child’s play>"

from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/child's%20play

So when you complain that it’s “child’s play” for you to be downscaled you’re saying it’s making it far easier to survive, making it trivial. Which is not what you mean to say at all.

Unless you mean it’s helping the mobs out by making it child’s play for them to eat you when you stand still and let them?

Hi, you’ve misunderstood what I meant. I posted again on the topic yesterday.

Wanderer.3248:

We need more scaling, not less. Even with scaling the low level areas are way to easy for a fully geared 80.

No, we need less.

Tom.6478:

In my humble opinion, GW2 scaling is about perfect. At level 80, I want and expect to have a easier time in low level areas. But I don’t want it so easy that I have no chance of dying.

Why this person is having trouble at level 80 and fully upgraded gear, is beyond me.

I’m a terrible player. My reflexes are so bad, I do not dodge ( by time I realize I need to its too late). My fingers are so uncoordinated, I not only use the mouse for movement, I use the mouse cursor for selecting my skills.

Having said all that, I do just fine. There is almost nothing I can’t do in regular PVE. Certainly a few icebrood elementals won’t slow me down.

On the off chance you ran into that mob near where the Maw meta event starts…..well that could explain it. Few people could take on that group solo.

You shouldn’t have to use dodge and those other tricks to avoid being beaten by low-level enemies. That’s my point!

Ehecatl.9172:

Agemnon.4608:

Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.

They do if you become sufficiently durable. In Dragon Ball for example Goku becomes stronger by the season. If Super Saiyan Blue Goku went back to the first episode Raditz would be so far outclassed that he’d endanger himself by hitting him.

Levels in RPGs are the equivalent of DBZ power levels. Sure you don’t gain enough stats to become a moon buster but a base toughness of 5 may correlate to an average person whereas a base toughness of 20 means you’re bulletproof to regular bullets, but still as fragile as a wet paper bag compared to endgame level dragons.

But how to justify levels from a lore standpoint in Guild Wars 2? Maybe we can justify it as we’re back in time and each level represents a different place in our timeline whereas level 80 represents us in the present at our strongest. The polar bears of low level zones are no longer dangerous to our present selves, but they’re dangerous to our past level 10 selves and whenever we visit that map we’re effectively going back in time canonically.

Yaaaah. No. Power level bullkitten has no place in a traditional fantasy setting. I only tolerate it in games like WoW because it’s purely a game mechanic and not part of the lore.

Nothing in the lore states that your character’s skin got harder because you leveled up. It doesn’t happen in the world.

Levels in GW2 simply represent us gaining experience that is used to unlock new traits and skills. Learning new tricks to overcome our opponents and becoming stronger without becoming flat out superhuman.

Who would’a thought that experience points can actually represent experience in a game.

The more responses of this kind I read, the more I am starting to feel that gw2 was built for the needy players in mind, who cannot handle the mechanics of a true MMO.

Sarrs.4831:

isn’t child’s play something that’s incredibly easy

so if a mob is killing you even with all the advantages you have at such an extreme downscale

the game isn’t easy
it’s hard

so how is this child’s play?

surely going back to stomp baby mobs as a level 80 is child’s play?

The game becomes extremely child-orientated when every zone is perfectly balanced for my demands and my comfort – which is completely separate from the actual reality of true MMO gaming, which is all about levelling up, becoming strong and becoming the best. If you uproot these elements, you risk turning a game into a beautiful theme park resort.

Indeed.
To the OP, why are you still here, when its obvious you want a game like WOW.
The entire reason that people come to GW2 is because its differant to other MMOs.
No point just churning out another MMO thats the same as all the rest.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

The game becomes extremely child-orientated when every zone is perfectly balanced for my demands and my comfort – which is completely separate from the actual reality of true MMO gaming, which is all about levelling up, becoming strong and becoming the best. If you uproot these elements, you risk turning a game into a beautiful theme park resort.

so you’re comfortable when you’re getting 2shot by trivial mobs even considering level scaling? ok

Crossaber.8934:

Agemnon.4608:

Their claws and weapons didn’t magically become less lethal.

They do if you become sufficiently durable. In Dragon Ball for example Goku becomes stronger by the season. If Super Saiyan Blue Goku went back to the first episode Raditz would be so far outclassed that he’d endanger himself by hitting him.

Levels in RPGs are the equivalent of DBZ power levels. Sure you don’t gain enough stats to become a moon buster but a base toughness of 5 may correlate to an average person whereas a base toughness of 20 means you’re bulletproof to regular bullets, but still as fragile as a wet paper bag compared to endgame level dragons.

But how to justify levels from a lore standpoint in Guild Wars 2? Maybe we can justify it as we’re back in time and each level represents a different place in our timeline whereas level 80 represents us in the present at our strongest. The polar bears of low level zones are no longer dangerous to our present selves, but they’re dangerous to our past level 10 selves and whenever we visit that map we’re effectively going back in time canonically.

It is the reason i stop reading dragonball combat right after the first super saiyan mode is out. The story us getting stupid, the number of the energy level is overdone. I love the 7 dragonball series where fighting tactics is important, instead of unlimited powerceep in the story.

The level scaling is perfectly fine, reason?

A traditional mmo a maxed lv player is limited to have meaningful combat in endgame zone only, while GW2 a maxed lv player, the whole game any map can have meaning combat. GW2 have some flaws, but this is a feature that make GW2 GREAT.

I can see your point, if you are someone who has big needs, but as a level 80 character you should be focusing on playing ‘meaningful’ content in zones for your area, not low-level zones. Why would anyone want to do that? The map is huge. How much more space do you need?

The arguments players have presented in this thread (most in repetition) just do not justify leaving out the traditional leveling/combat system which true players enjoy.

It’s all about… “I prefer this….”, “…but it’s better this way because..”… NO it isn’t!

Making every zone into a complete access-for-all monopoly is WRONG WRONG WRONG imo.

It also sets a very bad example for the up and coming novice gamer about how to tackle no-win situations in a gaming community.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I have the best armour and stats at the moment, and i’m happy with everything. But I just sat back in horror as I watched a level 15 icebrood elemental in a low-level region remove half my health in a few seconds.

If they ever decide to make a gw3 I hope they get rid of that stupid scaling system, because it really makes the game look like child’s play.

Even if my health suddenly drops from 20k to 1.5k, I would expect a low level enemy to struggle against a level 80. My suspicion is that levels are actually meaningless in this game.

I’ve posted on this topic before, and I’m posting again because this is something that is still bugging me.

ADDENDUM: some of these mobs are actually killing me quicker than level 80 mobs.

Seriously man, what goes on in the head of you who like to play PVE and get angry because they die for some mobs? In a little ArenaNet will have to do the mobs die in an attack just to cheer you and others who have made the PVE a shame.

Enough HOT now has less mobs and is easier to make all events alone, Tyria is now easy and if you’re dying to Icebrood sure the problem is the finger you use to press the keyboard …

I have been upset because the HOT lost the challenge it had before.His argument as well as other players who want this super easy game is that causes a miserable failure in GW2

What fails miserably is the negativism (being negative just for the sake of being negative) and the same old complain to complain posters and their provocative titles, trolling for attention.

The scaling is here to stay and I’m glad, it enhances the game for me.

mauried.5608:

Indeed.
To the OP, why are you still here, when its obvious you want a game like WOW.
The entire reason that people come to GW2 is because its differant to other MMOs.
No point just churning out another MMO thats the same as all the rest.

I bet if they made half the map oriented to your play-style, and the other half traditional, it would attract more players

Sarrs.4831:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

The game becomes extremely child-orientated when every zone is perfectly balanced for my demands and my comfort – which is completely separate from the actual reality of true MMO gaming, which is all about levelling up, becoming strong and becoming the best. If you uproot these elements, you risk turning a game into a beautiful theme park resort.

so you’re comfortable when you’re getting 2shot by trivial mobs even considering level scaling? ok

I’m a mesmer. I’m not worried about receiving damage.

Rap Tiger.1257:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I have the best armour and stats at the moment, and i’m happy with everything. But I just sat back in horror as I watched a level 15 icebrood elemental in a low-level region remove half my health in a few seconds.

If they ever decide to make a gw3 I hope they get rid of that stupid scaling system, because it really makes the game look like child’s play.

Even if my health suddenly drops from 20k to 1.5k, I would expect a low level enemy to struggle against a level 80. My suspicion is that levels are actually meaningless in this game.

I’ve posted on this topic before, and I’m posting again because this is something that is still bugging me.

ADDENDUM: some of these mobs are actually killing me quicker than level 80 mobs.

Seriously man, what goes on in the head of you who like to play PVE and get angry because they die for some mobs? In a little ArenaNet will have to do the mobs die in an attack just to cheer you and others who have made the PVE a shame.

Enough HOT now has less mobs and is easier to make all events alone, Tyria is now easy and if you’re dying to Icebrood sure the problem is the finger you use to press the keyboard …

I have been upset because the HOT lost the challenge it had before.His argument as well as other players who want this super easy game is that causes a miserable failure in GW2

You raise a good point: I find it easy to play in hot…

CMM.6712:

What fails miserably is the negativism (being negative just for the sake of being negative) and the same old complain to complain posters and their provocative titles, trolling for attention.

The scaling is here to stay and I’m glad, it enhances the game for me.

I’m not sure what you mean, but I am not being negative in any way. I want to re-vamp the mechanics of the game (which I enjoy playing). Why? To enjoy it even more