Guild Wars 2

I’m sorry, but because you and your 8 friends do not like DE then they should completely rework how their leveling system is? The leveling system that completely separates them from every other MMO on the market? You make it sound like that is something that is feasible, if your going to try and be constructive, atleast make a suggestion that makes sense.

Lets look at this from a transaction point, using your numbers. The game industry today is catered towards casual gamers(FACT. First thing learned in electronic game design – development classes in every university/collage)as the general population is not able to spend 10hours a day every day playing a game. So that being said your 30% that does not like it, will eventually leave. And out of the 70% that stays, probably 60% of those will be casual gamers, and in mmo history casual gamers are the ones that are more likely to spend 2x more then the average full time players in micro transactions. Therefore making up for the loss of the 30%, not even calculating for the additional players added and lost over time.

My point is, why would a company spend alot of money and thousands of man hours to remove/change there own innovative design to suit 1 person, and his 8 friends, along with his 30%? Yes there are many bugs that need to be addressed, aswell as balancing, but the game has only been out for 2 weeks. Aslong as bugs get fixed, and content comes out at a pase that will keep up with the majority of populations needs, then the game will servive, with or without you

Using the forums as a standard for what the playerbase thinks is ridiculous, because forums are always overwhelmingly filled with complaints. Most of the content players don’t ever bother to come to the forums for any game. So, yes, you get more complainers like you on the forums, but that in no way can be extrapolated to the playerbase as a whole — forums are simply not representative of anything other than what the whiny minority thinks.

DusK.3849:

Battle Rifles.2965:

Of the 8 people I know personally who play (or have played) GW2, not one of them likes the Hearts + Dynamic Events way of leveling up.

Not one.

That’s nice for them. The majority of players enjoy it. Stop trying to change the game to appease a cookie-cutter MMO grind minority.

Also, you’re in no position to call anyone a “bad player” if you’re complaining about the dungeon difficulty.

So here’s my question:

The majority of players right now enjoy it? Ok, I’ll bite. Let’s say they do (despite the fact that you have no evidence that this is valid).

Do you think the majority of the players who are playing right now will be playing in 6 months?

The answer is an absolute no. Go look at the history of MMOs over the past 10 years, and examine their populations post launch. The only people who will be playing this consistently in 6 months are currently a minority of the current population anyway, so any argument you make for the majority now has no relevance to this discussion, because that majority will be gone in 6 months. I’d draw you a pie chart, but this is all turning a bit too didactically maternal for my liking.

Matze.6014:

I’m sorry, but because you and your 8 friends do not like DE then they should completely rework how their leveling system is? The leveling system that completely separates them from every other MMO on the market? You make it sound like that is something that is feasible, if your going to try and be constructive, atleast make a suggestion that makes sense.

Lets look at this from a transaction point, using your numbers. The game industry today is catered towards casual gamers(FACT. First thing learned in electronic game design – development classes in every university/collage)as the general population is not able to spend 10hours a day every day playing a game. So that being said your 30% that does not like it, will eventually leave. And out of the 70% that stays, probably 60% of those will be casual gamers, and in mmo history casual gamers are the ones that are more likely to spend 2x more then the average full time players in micro transactions. Therefore making up for the loss of the 30%, not even calculating for the additional players added and lost over time.

My point is, why would a company spend alot of money and thousands of man hours to remove/change there own innovative design to suit 1 person, and his 8 friends, along with his 30%? Yes there are many bugs that need to be addressed, aswell as balancing, but the game has only been out for 2 weeks. Aslong as bugs get fixed, and content comes out at a pase that will keep up with the majority of populations needs, then the game will servive, with or without you

Sadly, this is mostly right, and I understand that. It’s a game that’s clearly been geared towards casual players. Like I said, all I can do is hope for the best and prepare to move on. I disagree with your numbers a bit, but yes, casuals make for lots of microtransactions.

All my suggestions, aside from elite capping, could be implemented alongside the current system. Do I think it will happen? No. But I have given my ideas about how it could happen.

I just dont understand your thought process, because he has no evidence that the majority does like it, its not valid. But your statement that most that majority will not be playing in 6 months is valid? You also have no evidence to support this, you cannot accurately reflect the results from the past 10 years of MMO’s to this, as it changes the dynamics. By your same logic your statements have no relevance, as you have no factual data to back up your claims, your 8 friends do not even represent .1% of the population, aswell as your trying to back up your argument with agrees from a forum?

maybe people would be more open for your argument if you didn´t outright insult them as “dull” and coming across as extremely arrogant.

Sadly, this is mostly right, and I understand that. It’s a game that’s clearly been geared towards casual players. Like I said, all I can do is hope for the best and prepare to move on. I disagree with your numbers a bit, but yes, casuals make for lots of microtransactions.

All my suggestions, aside from elite capping, could be implemented alongside the current system. Do I think it will happen? No. But I have given my ideas about how it could happen.
[/quote]

I apologize if I am a bit confrontational, I get alittle annoyed after reading multiple posts in games from idiots that post about how this or that in core mechanics need to be changed because its not the same as “insert title”, without even having any idea from a programing side how difficult that is. Its not like it can just be added in. That needs a complete rework of all coding, hundreds of thousands of lines of coding having to be redone, and tested. In your end, your entitled to your opinion, but its more constructive when you dont make claims that insinuate the majority of the population agrees.

Battle Rifles.2965:

DusK.3849:

Battle Rifles.2965:

Of the 8 people I know personally who play (or have played) GW2, not one of them likes the Hearts + Dynamic Events way of leveling up.

Not one.

That’s nice for them. The majority of players enjoy it. Stop trying to change the game to appease a cookie-cutter MMO grind minority.

Also, you’re in no position to call anyone a “bad player” if you’re complaining about the dungeon difficulty.

So here’s my question:

The majority of players right now enjoy it? Ok, I’ll bite. Let’s say they do (despite the fact that you have no evidence that this is valid).

Do you think the majority of the players who are playing right now will be playing 6 months?

The answer is an absolute no. Go look at the history of MMOs over the past 10 years, and examine their populations post launch. The only people who will be playing this consistently in 6 months are currently a minority of the current population anyway, so any argument you make for the majority now has no relevance to this discussion, because that majority will be gone in 6 months. I’d draw you a pie chart, but this is all turning a bit too didactically maternal for my liking.

You want evidence this is valid? More people are playing the game right now than have posted on this forum. Where I see the same 30 or so people posting, Xfire shows that nearly 75,000 people are in-game right now, and that includes only the people who have Xfire running (and Xfire itself has seen a big drop in its user base over the years, so think about that). And if you want evidence that this is valid, that people are -what a shock!- enjoying the game, go into a zone and just ask if people are enjoying the game. You won’t see a whole lot a whiners, but you will see a lot of praise. You’ll hear from 80’s working on their world completion. You’ll see clumps of players gathered around dungeon entrances looking for groups. You’ll see people amazed at all the neat little things hidden in the game. You’ll see people en masse doing dynamic events and cheering when they achieve victory. You’ll see people asking when the Shatterer will be up, and getting ready for him if he’s close.

These people will stick around, because these people are like me; they knew what the game was going to be when they bought it, they know what the game is now, and they know what the game will be down the line. And when the content comes in addition to the hundreds of hours of content ANet gave us on launch (and yes, there are hundreds of hours in this game, find anyone with 100% map completion and his /age will be no less than 250, likely more than 300), they’ll be around playing that too.

You seem to have this hilarious idea in your head that the only people that will be around years down the road are the same masochist workaholics who think the stupid crap you think is fun is something we all do. Those people are the ones who will leave (and good riddance, because they’re annoying and really bring down the community as a whole), while the kinds of folks that cause WoW’s active subscribers to go from 12m to 9m because they got bored grinding dungeons for loot so they can grind dungeons for loot so they can grind dungeons for loot will be hanging around here.

You act like this MMO, which is nothing like other MMOs (no matter how badly you want it to be), should be compared to those other MMOs. How can you not realize the massive flaw in that logic? Those other games were built around sinking countless hours into the same dungeons several times a day to boost some small set of stats by 10. This game is based around fun. You don’t see people complaining on the BF3 forums that their character never levels up after they’ve unlocked their kits. You don’t see people at the Street Fighter 25th Anniversary Tournaments complaining about how their main character’s attacks don’t increase in strength whenever they beat arcade mode. So why, oh why, are you complaining about how a game doesn’t have that same endgame crap as other boring MMOs when we knew, right from the start, that boring gear treadmills and racing to 80 to get to “the fun stuff” isn’t what this game’s about?

If that’s TL;DR, I’ll say what it all really boils down to: If you don’t like the game, by all means, don’t play it, but please don’t try to change it into something other than what ArenaNet has been saying they’d give us. Please don’t try to turn this into the boring grind-fest MMO’s we bought this MMO to get away from. Because honestly, all the stuff you and the others are whining about… it’s like coming to UT3 from CoD4 and complaining that the gameplay’s too fast, there’s no killstreak rewards, and you can’t go prone in a corner and get a free win.

Matze.6014:

I just dont understand your thought process, because he has no evidence that the majority does like it, its not valid. But your statement that most that majority will not be playing in 6 months is valid? You also have no evidence to support this, you cannot accurately reflect the results from the past 10 years of MMO’s to this, as it changes the dynamics. By your same logic your statements have no relevance, as you have no factual data to back up your claims, your 8 friends do not even represent .1% of the population, aswell as your trying to back up your argument with agrees from a forum?

My statement about the majority now not playing it in 6 months is based off of the last decade of online gaming history. I’m not a developer, nor do I work in the games industry, but if someone who does shows up and reads “But your statement that most that majority will not be playing in 6 months is valid? You also have no evidence to support this, you cannot accurately reflect the results from the past 10 years of MMO’s to this, as it changes the dynamics,” they’ll laugh pretty hard.

The majority of people playing now will not be playing in 6 months. It’s a fact of life in the MMO world. Realistically, it’s probably more like 3 months, but 6 months is easy.

Again, this thread’s become way too maternal. I can’t be bothered researching the numbers for you, but feel free to and come back with your report. Or rather, sit in shame when you come to understand that, not only will the majority of players who are playing now not be playing in 6 months, but the first out the door are the casual masses (and they make up the largest demographic). If ANet wants to go the way of LoL (and it sure looks like that’s what they have in mind), then fine. But LoL caters to long time Dota players as well as brand new gamers who can’t use hotkeys. I don’t see GW2 being able to do that, especially on the PvE side of things with high skills caps, and I think that’ll be a big problem.

DusK.3849:

You want evidence this is valid? More people are playing the game right now than have posted on this forum. Where I see the same 30 or so people posting, Xfire shows that nearly 75,000 people are in-game right now, and that includes only the people who have Xfire running (and Xfire itself has seen a big drop in its user base over the years, so think about that). And if you want evidence that this is valid, that people are -what a shock!- enjoying the game, go into a zone and just ask if people are enjoying the game. You won’t see a whole lot a whiners, but you will see a lot of praise. You’ll hear from 80’s working on their world completion. You’ll see clumps of players gathered around dungeon entrances looking for groups. You’ll see people amazed at all the neat little things hidden in the game. You’ll see people en masse doing dynamic events and cheering when they achieve victory. You’ll see people asking when the Shatterer will be up, and getting ready for him if he’s close.

These people will stick around, because these people are like me; they knew what the game was going to be when they bought it, they know what the game is now, and they know what the game will be down the line. And when the content comes in addition to the hundreds of hours of content ANet gave us on launch (and yes, there are hundreds of hours in this game, find anyone with 100% map completion and his /age will be no less than 250, likely more than 300), they’ll be around playing that too.

You seem to have this hilarious idea in your head that the only people that will be around years down the road are the same masochist workaholics who think the stupid crap you think is fun is something we all do. Those people are the ones who will leave (and good riddance, because they’re annoying and really bring down the community as a whole), while the kinds of folks that cause WoW’s active subscribers to go from 12m to 9m because they got bored grinding dungeons for loot so they can grind dungeons for loot so they can grind dungeons for loot will be hanging around here.

You act like this MMO, which is nothing like other MMOs (no matter how badly you want it to be), should be compared to those other MMOs. How can you not realize the massive flaw in that logic? Those other games were built around sinking countless hours into the same dungeons several times a day to boost some small set of stats by 10. This game is based around fun. You don’t see people complaining on the BF3 forums that their character never levels up after they’ve unlocked their kits. You don’t see people at the Street Fighter 25th Anniversary Tournaments complaining about how their main character’s attacks don’t increase in strength whenever they beat arcade mode. So why, oh why, are you complaining about how a game doesn’t have that same endgame crap as other boring MMOs when we knew, right from the start, that boring gear treadmills and racing to 80 to get to “the fun stuff” isn’t what this game’s about?

If that’s TL;DR, I’ll say what it all really boils down to: If you don’t like the game, by all means, don’t play it, but please don’t try to change it into something other than what ArenaNet has been saying they’d give us. Please don’t try to turn this into the boring grind-fest MMO’s we bought this MMO to get away from. Because honestly, all the stuff you and the others are whining about… it’s like coming to UT3 from CoD4 and complaining that the gameplay’s too fast, there’s no killstreak rewards, and you can’t go prone in a corner and get a free win.

Actually, I came simply from Guild Wars to Guild Wars 2. If you read my initial post, you’d know I’ve never played any other MMO.

And you know what? Amazingly, I’d like to have fun, too.

So don’t lump me in with the hordes of disgruntled WoW players. I’m a disgruntled Guild Wars player, and I’d like to have fun just as much as you do. I’ll call the crap I see in this game, and if it isn’t fixed, I’ll find something else I enjoy. But again, the amount of false dichotomies that have popped up in this thread (grinding, for example, when I specifically said it wasn’t necessary) is pretty absurd.

Also, I’ll just add that I have a friend at 100% world completion and 210 hours played. From what he tells me, he found it pretty boring.

Don’t underestimate how boring something is just because A.) The player isn’t complaining about it in-game and in forums, and B.) Just because they’re actually doing it.

What was his alternative for leveling up? Dynamic events and hearts, and we all know how those go.

Why on earth would someone spend 210 hours doing something they found to be boring unless they are being paid to do so. Isn’t that simply insane?

knightblaster.8027:

Why on earth would someone spend 210 hours doing something they found to be boring unless they are being paid to do so. Isn’t that simply insane?

Most of us held out hope for the end game. When the end game came and we all had blueballs, well… that’s how threads like this happen.

I am just flabbergasted at how that could have happened. The 8-ball was not hidden about the endgame for Guild Wars 2. I’m just quite honestly shocked at how people could be surprised about it — it’s exactly what I expected personally based on what Anet was saying about it months and months ago.

I’ll be honest, once I got all my HoM stuff I ignored the hype as best I could because I didn’t want any spoilers. I didn’t know much about GW2 before I made my first char, and I thought that would be the best way to go. I’ll probably be criticised for not doing research about it beforehand, but it’s Guild Wars 2. If ANet made another game I’d have looked first, but it’s the sequel. How can you butcher it to the point that it’s unrecognisable?

Okay. I guess some people did that. It’s odd to me because I would never assume anything about a sequel just because it’s a sequel, but I guess other people could. Anet did bend over backwards to tell people it wasn’t like GW1 in design, but I guess there are people who prefer not to seek out that information in order to avoid having the surprise of the game spoiled in some way.

Battle Rifles.2965:

Most of us held out hope for the end game.

That’s your fault, because the rest of us knew that there is no endgame; there’s only a game.

EIGHT people??? Are you kidding me? You think that’s some kind of reasonable sample of players? That’s a joke, you can’t even begin to guess any kind of statistics based off of that. Even if we count your 30% of people who agree with you on this thread, that’s what? Another five? And you have noticed all the people who actually disagree with you right?

And what the hell does the last 10 years of mmos have to do with GW2? Guess what most of those mmos had. Quest hubs and player to player trading. Funny how that didn’t seem to save them. It’s that exact reason why Anet decided to take a different approach.

And when I said we had a perfectly good questing system I didn’t mean it was literally perfectkitten Dynamic events do the job of quests and they do it better, that’s a big step forward imo. Just goes to show the strength of your arguments for calling me “intellectually dishonest” because of my wording.

Well I’m finally back at my appartement, so it’s time to start playing again so now I don’t have to carry on this pointless conversation of one man trying to play a completely different game and not realizing he should search somewhere else.

See you in game folks!

knightblaster.8027:

Okay. I guess some people did that. It’s odd to me because I would never assume anything about a sequel just because it’s a sequel, but I guess other people could. Anet did bend over backwards to tell people it wasn’t like GW1 in design, but I guess there are people who prefer not to seek out that information in order to avoid having the surprise of the game spoiled in some way.

I don’t doubt they did.

I hope I find it more enjoyable in the future. That’s all really.

I’m out for now. See you in Tyria sometime.

knightblaster.8027:

Using the forums as a standard for what the playerbase thinks is ridiculous, because forums are always overwhelmingly filled with complaints. Most of the content players don’t ever bother to come to the forums for any game. So, yes, you get more complainers like you on the forums, but that in no way can be extrapolated to the playerbase as a whole — forums are simply not representative of anything other than what the whiny minority thinks.

And can you imagine the state everything would be in if nobody complained or offered advice!

It’s called democracy!

Completely disagree with the OP. This game is far more exciting than GW1, hands down, in my book.

Von Adder.2487:

knightblaster.8027:

Using the forums as a standard for what the playerbase thinks is ridiculous, because forums are always overwhelmingly filled with complaints. Most of the content players don’t ever bother to come to the forums for any game. So, yes, you get more complainers like you on the forums, but that in no way can be extrapolated to the playerbase as a whole — forums are simply not representative of anything other than what the whiny minority thinks.

And can you imagine the state everything would be in if nobody complained or offered advice!

It’s called democracy!

Sure. That isn’t an issue. The issue is saying “oh, gee, there’s 30% of the people in this thread who agree with me, therefore there must be something like 30% of people in the game who feel like this” — that’s what I was talking about, not prohibiting people from voicing their opinions.

Von Adder.2487:

knightblaster.8027:

Using the forums as a standard for what the playerbase thinks is ridiculous, because forums are always overwhelmingly filled with complaints. Most of the content players don’t ever bother to come to the forums for any game. So, yes, you get more complainers like you on the forums, but that in no way can be extrapolated to the playerbase as a whole — forums are simply not representative of anything other than what the whiny minority thinks.

And can you imagine the state everything would be in if nobody complained or offered advice!

It’s called democracy!

And it’s a good thing the whiners and their flawed opinions are vastly outnumbered. Yay, democracy!

DusK.3849:

Von Adder.2487:

knightblaster.8027:

Using the forums as a standard for what the playerbase thinks is ridiculous, because forums are always overwhelmingly filled with complaints. Most of the content players don’t ever bother to come to the forums for any game. So, yes, you get more complainers like you on the forums, but that in no way can be extrapolated to the playerbase as a whole — forums are simply not representative of anything other than what the whiny minority thinks.

And can you imagine the state everything would be in if nobody complained or offered advice!

It’s called democracy!

And it’s a good thing the whiners and their flawed opinions are vastly outnumbered. Yay, democracy!

Heaven forbid we all have different opinions!

Sure, the whiners may be vastly outnumbered for now, the majority is not level 80 yet. Just wait a couple weeks I guarantee you will be seeing this “small minority” of complainers exponentially grow as the player base reaches end-game. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this will be almost exactly like Diablo 3. Soon the players will be dropping off like flies

200 Hrs for $60 is 0.30/hour. I would say you got your money’s worth.
Btw, I too am a long time RPG player hailing from first Baldur’s Gate 1/2, Planescape, NWN1/2, WoW, Warhammer, Rift, etc. and I find this game fantastic. The game allows you to control the pace, have your own story and the freedom to explore at your leisure with other people. I am sorry that you are disappointed that this didn’t keep the components you liked about GW1 but people are amazed because this has so much to offer other than the old grind and raid.

Regarding the content, honestly I don’t know how you are burning through it fast. I am only at 30% map completion, my crafting is only at 300 or so, my first character is at 69 and I’ve started since headstart. As a completionist who also works 50-60/hrs a week as a consultant, this game is perfectly paced for me not to mention it gives me the option of dynamic payments instead of a static monthly fee. I also cannot -wait- to get into pvp because WoW pvp was kitten.

I guess I don’t understand the complaints of OP because I didn’t get into GW1 and perhaps you can’t see the benefits because you have not experienced the hamster wheels out there. I don’t know what else to say other than I disagree with your points and I get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

Sounds like MMO’s aren’t the genre for you.

And since you seem to dislike this game so much, just move along. GW is still alive and since you found much enjoyment out of it, go back to what you like. It is that simple.

I honestly don’t understand people who say they don’t like something, but refuse to move on. And instead insist on sticking around to complain about how they don’t like it.

the content we have isn’t the end of the game. Updates Updates Updates.

you’re crying about a game that’s still new… are you guys really adults?

Tigger.8035:

the content we have isn’t the end of the game. Updates Updates Updates.

you’re crying about a game that’s still new… are you guys really adults?

There are probably 2 adults that have commented in this thread.
Hint: One of them is not the OP.

Because resorting to personal attacks is the best way to contribute to a discussion

Nodrog.7458:

Because resorting to personal attacks is the best way to contribute to a discussion

It seems to have worked pretty well so far in this thread.
Besides, there’s really no reason to ‘contribute’ to this thread when both sides completely refuse to listen to anyone except their cheerleaders. And let’s be honest here, you’re probably one of the biggest perpetrators of this, since you’re telling everyone, including people who already have 80’s, that they’re going to hate endgame and get bored.

I understand you very well, you dont understand.

Gw1 WAS NOT a MMO, even the devs said this before. It was a online multyplayer game, but thats not so a OM is what it was.

Basically like a lot of Fps shooter games. Where you join rms and can play in them. Instead in this the city was the waiting place, that all the players was at. The outside of the cities was the rms you could join to play in.

In a real MMO, which gw2 is. You will have the problem of not feeling like you made that big of a difference most of the time.

Because you got to share the map with everyone else and it impossible to cater to just you. Unless it ignore rest of the players.

Which DE are closer then any other MMO system to letting the player feel like they change something.

You should try other real MMO, and then you will see how little you feel then. It will be NOTHING.

However, since I am control and not DPS. In a lot of boss fights I feel like i matter a lot.

Since a lot of the time I am holding the boss off most of the fight. Keeping him under control and letting other players dps saftly.
Which is very important in a fight.

I can see how DPS build would feel useless in a giant fight like that.

Since i follow DE around and watch the story unfold and I am control.
I love this system, the best in any MMO yet.

Still I cant wait until the zerg thins out a bit, then DE will even get better.

Well again, MAIN reason it so different is this is TRUE mmo and gw was NOT a real MMO.

I completely agree with OP. It’s sad to see all the rabid fan boys lash out at OP in such a way that they do. Someone even called his initial post “shoddy and quickly written”.

Kungkonung.6758:

I completely agree with OP. It’s sad to see all the rabid fan boys lash out at OP in such a way that they do. Someone even called his initial post “shoddy and quickly written”.

To be fair, in some people’s eyes it could have been shoddy. People have different standards.
The OP had some okay points, but we’ve come to different conclusions about the game. He’s not wrong or mistaken, but in my eyes, his arguments don’t hold much weight. Does that make me a fanboy?

Kungkonung.6758:

I completely agree with OP. It’s sad to see all the rabid fan boys lash out at OP in such a way that they do. Someone even called his initial post “shoddy and quickly written”.

You do not have to be a “fanboy” to disagree with OP. The game is far from perfect, still you do not have to share OP´s own complaints about it.

I think a lot of the issues mentioned in this thread all have to do with how you play the game. Points like Dynamic Events having no story indicate that event chains are not being followed from start to finish and in my experiance thats what the majority of the players do unfortunitely and thats a problem which I have no idea how it can ever be solved. To truely enjoy Dynamic Events you need to be patient, you need to be ready to stick around and wait for stuff to happen. Its the only way to experiance a chain from start to finish!

Think about it, if you see an escort mission running and you join up what you will experiance is killing a few enemies you come across and move on. Eventually that will feel repetative and boring. Its true! However following the whole story from the start gives a completely different experiance! you get to know why that transport was needed. You get to watch an NPC actually calling in a pigeon actually kneeling infront of it to attach the letter, seeing the dove fly off and shortly after the dolyak and its handlers showing up. Killing the stuff that you come across the event now becomes a sort of a price to propell the story forward and see whats next as opposed to all you will get and thats the difference right there!

Opposite to what OP said Dynamic Events are a much better story telling mechanism than quests simply because they make you part of the story as it happens rather then what quests do which is telling you about past events which you never get to see and thus much harder to feel part off. I mean back to the previous example about the cubs and the witch. What makes you feel more part of the story, what gives you an emotional bond to the story a couple of lines that say something like “A witch is tricking charr cubs into following here. She would then capture these innocent little ones and using her evil magic is traps them into suffering for eternity” as opposed to actually seeing it unfold right in front of your eyes? But all of this is only true if you actually use that story telling tool. If a player runs from one event to the next without care for the story then obviously you’re not going to get any story!

I also disagree regarding OP’s view on Skills. The skills systems isnt really that different at its core from what GW1 intended. Sure you dont get to build your skill bar from 1000+ skills personally but what was the idea behind that and dual classing in GW1? I think it was simply intended to allow you to create and play any role you desired. You wanted to be an ele that could heal, check. You wanted a build that can deal damage but also interrupt enemy skills check. Guess what? you can still do this in GW2. You might not have 1000 skills to choose from but you still get the same effects and every class in GW2 has access to any of these effects be it, interruption, conditions, boons, whatever. Think about the end result of any strategic choices.. removing overpowered stuff from the equation, which is bad anyhow, what build would you like to device in gw2 that is no longer possible? Cause at the end of the day I bet you could choose 3 – 5 builds you loved in GW1 and through the use of the right weapons, traits and armor you can build your GW2 character to play them and not only that but play thenm simultaniously! simply ignore the skills and focus on the effects and you’ll see! Like others have pointed out not only doesnt GW2 restrict you when it comes to skill, it allows you to do much much more while actually playing your build!

As a GW1 player from day one who loves both games.. I would like to ask.. why did you buy the game, then?

ANet was plenty open about Dynamic Events (hearts were not even there to begin with period) and the Spellbar throughout the lengthy production process. Why buy a game you won’t like, and then complain about it? You’re opinion is your opinion, but what more could ANet possiblly do other than to tell you what they were making, and hope you would take that info into consideration before buying? They wanted to move away from standard questing as part of their basic foundation for the game. They threw a breadcrumb to people that struggled with the DE only model by adding Hearts to begin with.

Trading Post replacing all trading you did not have a way of knowing about since they didn’t specify about it beforehand any, and I do agree this is a poor move given people have demonstraited a clear intent to trade via the unsafe mail system anyway without one. This is just leaving an open loophole for scammers by not offering a safer alternative which leads to unhappy customers clogging up the ticket system with problems that didn’t need to happen to begin with.

That said, I do agree scaling needs work quite a bit. I think in the rush to finally get the game out, it isn’t nearly as polished a DE system as they had hoped for us. Hopefully it will get better, later.

I have to disagree on the OP on one critical thing that makes his entire posts irrational… there is plenty of Penalty in the game. Not the least of which is the cost to fix your armor, and if your in a prolonged battle (unless your carrying extra armor with you) your likely to be critically crippled for sucking so bad that you die a lot in that you have no armor to help you defeat the champion. The gold sinks in the game are designed to keep people from easily hoarding money forever making it impossible to Max lev armor on a low character and never have to do it again as you suggest. Indeed even in the original that was not the intention but became the norm, otherwise it would have been easy to just go to ascalon or lions arch and get your max armor there… It was nevr the intention to just become EASY mode even in the original. GW2 makes it balanced, but for PvP its all tehre for you all maxed out all available for you to try out the works… sure you earn runes and stuff in PvP but I think that added challenge it worth it for that part of the game. PvE however is what GW2 was evolved in. the dynamic events are suppose to be group events, your not suppose to just walk in a god among mere mortals and just touch them and their dead… if thats what you want your not a gamer your pathetic. If any game were that easy peope would Never Ever play it for more then a week… Keeping the challenge up is what makes the game fun. and the balance that it has designed into it makes all parts of PvE (non instanced) equally rewarding for all that participate even people that skip vst areas of the game to rush to 80 and find themselves bored now… give me a break. If you did every aspect of the game all 110 story lines possibilities and all races, and all hearts, and all skill points, and all dungeons, and every single area event by now and are bored, well then I agree you did it all.. if not you havent scratched the surface in the available experience of the game sorry you feel slighted by GW2 and its gameplay. I know many will not enjoy GW2 cause its challenging and some peopel just dont want to feel challenged when they play games, which is why there is so many cheaters in the world. That being said. The one good thing in GW2 for you is that your welcome to leave and come back at a later date and it costs you nothing. try doign that in other games and either the game will shut down on you and all is lost or your so far behind when you come back you have to pay for numerous DLC content udates in order to play new stuff on top of having to pay a subscription. at least in GW2 there is no subscription.

Oh and as to the hatred of the trading post and wanting your TRADE button back. well then I also have to disagree there. Use it, Slave it, Merch it, or sell it on the TP… if all else is not enough you have Guild sharing, and email.. The trade spam is thankfully NOT DESIRED HERE NOR NECESSARY.

As to the Gold seller emails, I report every one of them in hopes those accounts will be forever banned. I feel bad that so many turn out to be hacked accounts, BUT those gold sellers are not welcome in any game economy as all they do is make thing worse for markets, and worse for new people coming into the game… Keep them out of the acceptable mainstream and banning them by the thousands if necessary ensures a stable and effective market economy. Why? because you dont have people driving prices into the sky high inflations if no one is able to buy them… thus prices stay low for everyone and the market is bearing a real value… Indeed the USA could use a lesson in Economics 101 and halt the mass influx of counterfeit money though QE initiatives. all it does is devalue currency and drive all prices UP… this si what those Real money gold sellers EXCEL in doing to every game they get a foothold in… NOT HERE thank you very much!

I don’t see why Anet can’t change it up with upcoming expansions… You guys are playing what we would see as a “bare bones” game after they release new expansions in the coming years.

Patience my friends… patience. Hell at least what we have now is actually a LOT compared to MMOs that first released… I know for a fact TERA, FFXI, FFXIV, SWTOR, and Rift didn’t have this much content when they first released.

No idea why anyone would prefer the original – it was boring as all kitten. Also the fact you spent $3000 on a new PC to run this is laughable. I spent under $1500 on mine and it runs everything maxed out flawlessly.

So, the game isn’t to your tastes, eh? Well, you can’t please everyone. Not to sound overly harsh or anything, but GW2 isn’t a bad game simply because it doesn’t match your tastes directly. It’s impossible for any game to please everyone and I daresay it’s even more dangerous to make sweeping changes to core game features to appease the vocal minority who dislike it when there’s a greater majority of players loving the game.

I played GW1 since the day it came out. And my opinion of GW2? Its totally different than the original. For the most part much better. In the beginning of GW1 lifespan, there was a ton of teamwork and fun. Remember the good times of Thunderhead Keep? Yeah lots of fun.

But a problem happened, when players moved past those missions it became hard to get a group to run them. Often times we would be missing a monk. So you could end up sitting there for many hours doing nothing. You couldn’t solo outside and on top of that going outside of a hub introduced you to a lonely world. Because it was a personal instance.

Behold, Anet releases Nightfall which story wise was a big step above Factions. They introduced heroes which solved the problem of not being able to complete missions due to lack of players. But a new problem came with it, the game became more of a single player game than a multiplayer one. Its killed interaction in the game, I went through nightfall entirely by myself and it felt rather lonely.

GW2 addresses many of those issues, in fact I’d say GW2 is closer to the direction of EOTN, which was very different from the previous three games. Dynamic events are very good, not only do they get rid of the monotonous feel of quest hubs but it encourages players to work together. And since there is no mob stealing or shared loot, it makes team work even more pleasant. I’ve played a lot of mmos in the past and never have I seen so much team work on a mass level as I have in GW2.

In that regard Anet delivered the goods. GW2 skill system is different sure, but what you don’t mention up is how GW2 has the trait system which gives passive skills which interact with your active ones. That brings a amount of depth missing in GW1. Also, how many of those 50 skills in GW1 did most people use? Not many and from Anet’s perspective it probably became a pain to balance.

Another good thing about the skill system in gw2 is weapon swapping, so theoretically you have access to a total of 15 skills instead of 8 like in GW1.

Imo GW2 pros:

1. Dynamic events
2. Team work and interaction!
3. Action based combat mechanics
4. Persistent world
5. Overall more fleshed out skill system which still retains the depth of the original

Cons:

1. No Gwen
2. No Prince Rurik

Regards

I like GW2 but for almost none of the same reasons I liked GW1. Which is disappointing in some ways of course.. To be honest I only have 3 real issues, 1) Stupid mobs, what happened to them evading your aoe’s and stuff? 2) The fastest way to level up is often zerging… which I know is a choice but zerging is just so easy.. I couldn’t see a way of getting that changed either. 3) Lack of any Personal instances (I don’t mean story quests and dungeons). I agree mostly with the OP but I’m enjoying what I’ve got and I’m hoping Anet do listen to these sorta posts even if only a bit…

I guess the bottom line is, to compare how much gameplay you’d get out of $60’s worth of single player games and how much you’ve gotten and may get out of GW2.. and it’s still early days yet…

i personally feel that the ANet will fail to capture the playerbase as there is not enough progression or shinies to keep them ingame. My experience with the casual playerbase is that most are lazy and noobs and who want stuff handed to them on a plate. They want easy grinds and they want progress by the time they log off at the end of everyday.

they do not get that here in GW2. There is no new shiny item to get that makes their experience easier. The greens they wear at 80 will be only slightly worst than the exotics they wear after grinding COF 50 -60 times. They will still do their best to zerg things down and eventually their attention span will wander. The crutch of stat based progression is not there.

WvWvW does not hold the casual interest long as it is all about the zerg. And zerging is boring and self defeating. As the size only determines success or failure the have nots will transfer to a winning server and then quit when they cannot stand the queues or they cannot win easily.

the pve dungeons are just grinds. Boring ones at that, they differ from each other in visuals but pretty much comes down to Dodge this, Dodge that , DPS this and AOE all that etc 50-60 times to get a new set of armor that looks different from the last set but with the same stats is not exactly empowering or enhancing to the casuals.

and lastly Spvp. Well the casuals won’t do this, there is no progression from this and they will not stand up to the hardcore . Imagine that those who last long enough for ANet to release their next set of dungeons for the next Dragon kill and it will be the same, 50-60 runs in explorer mode for .. a new set of exactly the same but different looking armor / weapons.

of course folk will point out that they are not 80 yet and having fun just exploring etc , but really you explorers are kinda the on the small % of the casual playerbase, hell you are less then the 2% from WoW who actually did the Hardcore raids and saw the content.

Problem here is that WoW and the younger generation of players made good the trend of grinding the game as quickly as posible – that is, going running through your ‘laundry list’ sets of quests like there’s not tomorrow and going through the same skill rotation again and again – with the objective of getting max. level and then achieving the best gear ASAP, just to link it on the general chat as a proper e-Pn.

WoW installed a methodology of playing that is based on linear, compulsive grinding for the sole sake of the gear, emphatically ruling out other, more immersive, ways of playing. These kind of players only see numbers rolling on the screen, everything related to immersion, developing your character own bio and story in the open world, roleplaying and, all in all, living the virtual world through your character’s eyes is disregarded. For the e-Pn generation is quantity over quality playing.

In the OP’s case is even funnier as he is comparing a game that wasn’t even a MMORPG. If anything, it could be compared to Diablo. It is actually even funnier, as he is asking for core design changes (facepalm).

I come from a generation (Muds, first Neverwinter Nights, UO, EQ…) where we tried to get immersed, to live in the games we played. We didn’t follow a linear, anxiety ridden methodology of getting the best gear ASAP or powerleveling. We usually ran in circles exploring the lore, role-playing, socializing, helping other players, etc. Actually, GW2 is a game that provides with excellent systems and mechanics for RP, immersive playing. In fact, in its design is more of a easy to approach sandbox or ‘themebox’. Personally, never felt this way since the good ol’ days of Ultima Online, Asheron’s Call and Star Wars Galaxies. Those were games where you created your own adventure, as is the case with GW2 (and yes I also think that there are things to improve and aspects I’d like to see implemented..).

Having said that, I’m not gonna drop a tear, neither try to understand, not even respect the concerns of the locusts, compulsive, anxiety-ridden grinders that have come to this game with their linear, unimaginative mindsets to then spew their ‘concerns’ and dissatisfaction on the general forums. This is because basically they represents a sick trend in gaming that is ruining the genre. How can you respect the concerns of a guy that basically has missed the game? These players, whatever decissions the developers take, are condemned to boredom. Their motivation for playing is closer to addiction than enjoyment or immersion.

Another reason because I despise them is because they represent a society that is always in a rush but it’s not capable of getting anywhere.

I must agree with those that suggest you not playing MMORPG.
Seems you cannot be ’’happy’’ of Guild Wars 2 in those news that create the really entertainment of this game. I played GW1 for 3500+hours in 6 years, with 2 year of stop.
You cannot accept the fact that GW evolved too and tried the very best for an MMORPG. With lot of success.
If you and your friends can’t enjoy that, that will not be a problem Anet should resolve, surely they can improve game, but not change it for a very very very small set of persons that should play Cooking Mama on Wii

I do not believe you can just blame Blizzard or WoW for creating these players. They merely changed vanilla WoW to its current state to capture those players. Those players always were there. They always existed. Who can blame Blizzard or Apple etc for feeding the need of their audience ?

You can despise them all you want but they are the vast majority. I also do not see their gameplay as any worst than the perpetual immersion or RPers or explorer junkies to be honest.

To be fair when comparing amount of skills creating selection guild wars 1 had factions, nightfall, and eye of north. GW2 only has the base game so far. If it has three releases full of classes and skills added to it the complexity will grow. That’s my hope for it.

It’s only fair to compare base game to base game. The base story for GW1 was utter trash until the new ones came out. Also PVP was awesome and enterable from the start but you didn’t have any worthwhile skills for it until you played single player at first until they added points in later which they had to adjust later so they were worthwhile.

The point is give it some time before you compare it.

Soooo…I’ve played GW1 for over 6000 hours since 2004 and at first I didn’t like GW2 so much, during the beta that is. But they fixed a lot of things and enjoy it now.

I don’t have so much of a problem with DE’s. They can be repetitious (defend against even more centaurs) but I still enjoy them. My problem is that many of them are still bugged. They get stuck and block the cycles entirely because a caravan doesn’t take the final steps to completion or an enemy of a wave is stuck in a piece of terrain and is invulnerable thereby blocking the continuation etc.

Skills. Well I do agree that the first 5 being fixed is a bit of a shame because you tend to get stuck with at least one or two that aren’t that useful. Like having to have phantom skills while you focus on clones and such. Dual classing. No. Stop it. It created all kinds of problems in GW1 for balancing. I never liked that ranger were better at using necro skills and necro’s were better restoration healers than the ritualists themselves. Hunting elites, yeh that was kind of fun. But even then it doesn’t stop me from enjoying what is there.

The TP, well it seems that gold sellers is more the issue. The spamming mostly and that is a point. But it’s a new MMO with a gem system. And my view is that gold spammers only exist because there are customers for them. I just report them all and hope it helps stem the tide. Give Anet a bit of time to get some control there.

Battle Rifles.2965:

For the rest of us, the people who will actually spend money and tons of time in your game, well, we’re already really bored.

Sorry but as soon as I read this I lost all interest in actually responding to your post. Don’t speak for me. I’ve been playing GW1 since August of 06 and I enjoyed every minute of the time I played. I picked up GW2 and enjoyed it as well and so far it is actually giving me the same amount of enjoyment I had when I played GW1. Just because YOU didn’t feel like GW2 is a good game doesn’t mean every other GW1 vet feels the same.

+1 Tusuri

I for once want a game that stands true to their vision. And I like GW2’s vision.